AC not selling as well as before?

[Lvl200Mag]

I've recently read a few posts as well as heard from some friends that Sega apparently mentioned that AC isn't selling the way it used to or as much as before? Does anyone have any source on this, I'm thinking it was mentioned sometime during the last stream maybe?

Assuming it is true: What changes to Sega's policies on AC do you think could be done to entice people to spend money happily again?

[Raujinn]

They could make interesting new content.

:(

IIRC, it was specifically fashion scratches that weren't moving as much. Rather than conclude that it's because the scratches have been lackluster they just do what they normally do to solve problems these days and throw an entirely new system at it. You'll earn stars for wearing new costumes which let you buy certain AC items? Not 100% sure on the details of it. It's in the 40th broadcast thread.

[Shadowth117]

I think the problem is more Ep4 doing jack for them. They put out a very controversial line of content and they didn't really add much as far as new things to based on the old model. So of course if the game itself is troubled you'd get issues. I think they should focus on fixing the game itself, policies be damned.

edit: Ninjaed, but I see that my thoughts are shared.

[SteveCZ]

I don't see the point of this thread, but for the sake of typical pso-world speculating entertainment, I think Sega should not bring costumes to bonus scratch, or at least make it tradable. Make layered wears removable and tradable, not as tickets.

[Hysteria1987]

I'd be interested in seeing a source too - all I've had to go on is speculation based on the fact that AC items/costumes and the like from the latest scratches are much fewer in the shop than prior scratches, and that they're rather expensive.

This implies that a) not so many people are scratching (or in the case of base/innerwear, people are using the tickets themselves), which means prices are not being driven down by availability, and b) much less people are buying the newer stuff because of the cost.

The fact that I'm not seeing much complaining about not being able to get the new stuff implies that it's not in real high demand. Frankly in order to get people buying, I believe they need to offer better stuff.

We don't need school uniform #42, we don't need vomit-inducing overly-saccharine dress #56, and we don't need grimdark male coat #37. Interesting hairstyles have traditionally sold well, and we've not really had a lot of hair stuff at all lately. I'm not sure too many people are responding to the city-casual kind of style that the layered system's offering so far either, so perhaps more themes in that vein would be nice. I'd like more future sci-fi armour type stuff, but that's me, I don't know how the rest of the fanbase would react (there's a lot more people in the game into anime stuff than people like me who aren't, for instance, and they might appreciate the dress stuff more than I do).

There's also Sega's share price, which is sorta kinda a litmus test as to how the public are responding to the company as a whole. Every company goes through rises and falls- Sega's been in a fall for a few years now.

But again, this is all speculation - if there are sources out there, I'm keen to read em :P

[pkemr4]

they should drop the layered wear crap

[Aine]

I'd be interested in seeing a source too - all I've had to go on is speculation based on the fact that AC items/costumes and the like from the latest scratches are much fewer in the shop than prior scratches, and that they're rather expensive.

From the last livestream:
[spoiler-box]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeDZTVxUUAEpN5d.jpg:large[/spoiler-box]
Basically scratches are selling less so they are branching out into new models such as stamina systems.

[Zyrusticae]

There are any number of contributing factors to lower AC sales:


Low variety of costumes resulting in similarly styled costumes having their sales cannibalized by other costumes that have already been released
The costumes themselves not being good or interesting enough to be worth buying
The low return-on-investment of AC scratches possibly discouraging repeat buyers over the long haul
The game itself losing a lot of its luster due to heavily repetitive content
Straight-up burnout from the game having been around for years now
Competition from games like Blade & Soul and Dragon's Dogma Online eating into their customer base


I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of. Either way, they'd need to make a pretty big increase in quality (IMO) to make back the money they've lost over time. The ridiculously high prices of inner/base/outerwears certainly indicates that that has NOT been a good route to take. Cutting the value of the AC scratch effectively by two-thirds is obviously going to have a lot of customers saying "NO" to that ridiculously low value proposition.

The worst part is that it has knock-on effects as lower AC sales means fewer free players buying costumes off the market which means weaker incentives for people to even bother logging in to make and spend meseta on cosmetics. It's a problem they need to nip in the bud before it gets any worse. But you know they're not going to do that - they're just going to make things even worse by relying on ridiculously staid bullshit mobile game cash shop mechanics to try to wring as much cash out of their players as they possible can.

Fuck SEGA management. They suck.

[wefwq]

Layered wear was a mistake, after all.

[EvilMag]

Hate saying this but can we please have Suganuma back? The Ep4 directors clearly have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

[Zyrusticae]

Layered wear was a mistake, after all.
Layered wear is fine as an idea, but in practice the AC scratches need to become less expensive, not more. It's obvious that a big part of why they worked for so long was because they actually had something resembling a decent value for the money (at least in the minds of the ones who bought them). Having the value get cut down so much is just asking for trouble.

[Xaeris]

Layerwear was a fine idea, and reintroduced the mix and match aspect to clothing from PSU that many of us loved. The stupid part was making basewear into tickets and as a result, limiting their circulation through the economy. The thing I loved about PSO2's F2P model from pre-Episode 4 is that the typical free player's income was enough to accommodate some participation in the AC item economy. The way they implemented layerwear makes the typical free player's buck go much less further than it used to, which is the absolutely dumbest thing they could do for the game's long term health.

[Selphea]

There are any number of contributing factors to lower AC sales:

One more:

- Not enough midriff!

[Hysteria1987]

From the last livestream:
[spoiler-box]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeDZTVxUUAEpN5d.jpg:large[/spoiler-box]
Basically scratches are selling less so they are branching out into new models such as stamina systems.Cheers yo, appreciate it. And best of luck to Sega's new mining enterprise... :P

[Tenlade]

Hate saying this but can we please have Suganuma back? The Ep4 directors clearly have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

Who are the ep4 directors, did they hire the most generic F2P directors ever or something? bonuses for buying scratch tickets in bulk, stamina for gathering, AND a gem system. All they need to do is reward people for watching commercials on the video screens in the lobby and we'll hit peak freemium gameplay.

[Sizustar]

Who are the ep4 directors, did they hire the most generic F2P directors ever or something? bonuses for buying scratch tickets in bulk, stamina for gathering, AND a gem system. All they need to do is reward people for watching commercials on the video screens in the lobby and we'll hit peak freemium gameplay.

PSO2 episode 4 is being done by Nakamura (EP2) and Hamasaki's (Zero / Po2 / EP3 (balance adjustment))

[wefwq]

Who are the ep4 directors, did they hire the most generic F2P directors ever or something? bonuses for buying scratch tickets in bulk, stamina for gathering, AND a gem system. All they need to do is reward people for watching commercials on the video screens in the lobby and we'll hit peak freemium gameplay.
Don't give them ideas.

[D-Inferno]

Remember that much "bullshit" might not be coming from the directors, but rather from Sega of Japan's marketing and "higher ups". Not to mention the game's budget probably being too low to add the content we truly want.

Sometimes I wonder if PSO2 would have been more successful if the franchise was a thing in the Americas and Europe. That is, the game wasn't just simply a "niche" Japanese game where it's money comes from shitty sex-appeal outfits and people buying premium when they don't really need to. Come on now, during what points throughout this game lifetime do you feel getting prem was worth it besides shop (made irrelevant by cubes), and that time where you converted weps/units into passes (not as important thanks to 13* and red wep focus).

[NephyrisX]

Honestly we just need more varieties of Layer Wear which will come in due time, as well as having more actual costumes that fit the overdesigned futuristic anime look that Phantasy Star Online and onwards always had.

We don't need another bazillion Yukatas/Swimsuits/etc etc.

[Z-0]

I'm pretty sure that Layered Wear would increase AC Scratch sales, not decrease it...

AC Scratches being worth more meseta = incentive to scratch. The majority of people never actually scratch for an outfit, it's for meseta to get outfits and LAs. That being said though, the "better" the items, the more people will want to scratch because "it's bound to be worth a lot of meseta". While Layered Wear is expensive, it's expensive because people are buying it.

Furthermore, scratch sales have been on the decline since before Episode 4, it's not a recent thing. All the changes to scratches since Episode 4 are responses to the lowering sales to try and get people to scratch more (layered wear ticket system, bonus scratch items, etc).

[Tunga]

Well some say summoner is hot garbage and ep4 feels like it was made while smoking some lucky charms pot. Oh and lets not forget fishing for empty cans or mining for tomatoes!? Dude, like actually mining city streets for soybeans... On top you need enough exp to level to like what? level 70? to be able to grind a ring to +20 (with chances of failure to add more salt) for extremely dumbed down skills.

You have to be crazy to spend AC (i heard cost increases each usage?) for 10 more chances of soybeans, shrimps, tomatoes, empty cans, etc. (is it considered p2w when you get rolled at the same time?)


The stupid part was making basewear into tickets and as a result, limiting their circulation through the economy.

Funny seeing panties go for over 10M meseta for simply being a ticket with 0 re-sale value. With all these un-wise decisions/planning its no surprise their AC sales are dropping faster than rocks on water.

[Lvl200Mag]

I'm pretty sure that Layered Wear would increase AC Scratch sales, not decrease it...

AC Scratches being worth more meseta = incentive to scratch. The majority of people never actually scratch for an outfit, it's for meseta to get outfits and LAs. That being said though, the "better" the items, the more people will want to scratch because "it's bound to be worth a lot of meseta". While Layered Wear is expensive, it's expensive because people are buying it.

Furthermore, scratch sales have been on the decline since before Episode 4, it's not a recent thing. All the changes to scratches since Episode 4 are responses to the lowering sales to try and get people to scratch more (layered wear ticket system, bonus scratch items, etc).

People saying Layered Wear may be referring to it further bloating the AC scratches prize pool and making it harder to get things that are worth decent meseta and not male only? I'm not sure if the number of things per AC scratch has actually increased all that much but I do have friends who scratch that complain of them feeling bloated :-?

[Kondibon]

sorry
http://i.imgur.com/QPNSwLk.jpg


People saying Layered Wear may be referring to it further bloating the AC scratches prize pool and making it harder to get things that are worth decent meseta and not male only? I'm not sure if the number of things per AC scratch has actually increased all that much but I do have friends who scratch that complain of them feeling bloated :-?
Yeah, the bloat is a big part of it. All those accessories and inner wear no one cares about for every layered outfit are kinda getting in the way.

[Choppenstantz]

I'm pretty sure that Layered Wear would increase AC Scratch sales, not decrease it...

AC Scratches being worth more meseta = incentive to scratch. The majority of people never actually scratch for an outfit, it's for meseta to get outfits and LAs. That being said though, the "better" the items, the more people will want to scratch because "it's bound to be worth a lot of meseta". While Layered Wear is expensive, it's expensive because people are buying it.

Furthermore, scratch sales have been on the decline since before Episode 4, it's not a recent thing. All the changes to scratches since Episode 4 are responses to the lowering sales to try and get people to scratch more (layered wear ticket system, bonus scratch items, etc).

The issue is people like to look at supply and demand to determine price, when it's more complicated than that - price also effects demand, and supply/demand aren't codependent. Basically, while you can theoretically get better value because there's less supply, if the price is set too high people won't bother buying and your demand will crash. That's external market control that keeps prices in check - at the end of the day, things are only worth what people will actually pay for them, no matter what the supply/demand relation tells you the value should be.

When the average person scratching is hoping for something they'll be able to sell, they put themselves at the mercy of the market, and the logic basically boils down to "I hope a lot of people want this because I sure don't". You need buyers for a system like this to thrive, and higher cost on AC leads to lower supply and fewer sellers(with increased concentration of sellers), raising prices to a level where demand recedes as buyers lose interest - which in turn can lead to two reactions; undercut creeping where sellers lower prices just to move product and make ANY return, or sunken cost inflation where prices skyrocket as a means to compensate for how few units actually sell.

It's... Just not a very good system, to be making the changes they have been.

EDIT: Sorry, tl;dr - people are buying now, but if prices keep going up while item quality stagnates, the buyer pool will dry up.

[wefwq]

I'm pretty sure that Layered Wear would increase AC Scratch sales, not decrease it...

AC Scratches being worth more meseta = incentive to scratch. The majority of people never actually scratch for an outfit, it's for meseta to get outfits and LAs. That being said though, the "better" the items, the more people will want to scratch because "it's bound to be worth a lot of meseta". While Layered Wear is expensive, it's expensive because people are buying it.

Furthermore, scratch sales have been on the decline since before Episode 4, it's not a recent thing. All the changes to scratches since Episode 4 are responses to the lowering sales to try and get people to scratch more (layered wear ticket system, bonus scratch items, etc).
- Bloating scratch lineup
- Base and Inner being character-bound
- A set of layered wear being way too expensive compared to normal costume

Sure it'll may boost scratch sales in few week or month, but it'll reclining in no time due to broken player-to-player economy.
I see nothing good about the entire new system but badly designed and shortsighted cashgrab.

If this keeping up, we'll be reaching SEA-tier of player shop economy.

[Shadowstarkirby]

It's really not surprising in the slightest that sales are going down. I mean, I personally never bought AC for anything more than item expansion packs and premium until last week when I decided to try my luck at getting Nobles.

The layered wear system was a mistake in every way imaginable:

1. It's a ticket system, so have fun dressing up multiple characters! It was bad enough hairs and accessories had that issue, but now our outfits when it originally didn't? Fuck outta here.

2. You only get one piece of a layered outfit in regular scratch. So, the pool of stuff you can acquire is larger, thus, the chance of getting something you want is now much lower! Great!

3. The layered outfits as of thus far, mostly shitty for my type of taste. It wasn't until Planet Explorer scratch that they finally made something that caught my eye which was Lady Tacker (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Lady-Tacker-Style.jpg). And it wasn't even the entire outfit at that, just the Basewear. The amount of crap cute casual wear is really out of hand, I want some more badass looking outfits like Active Camisole (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Active-Camisole.jpg), Admiral Marine (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Admiral-Marine.jpg), and Vivid Punkish (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Vivid-Punkish.jpg). I'm really (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trillium-Marie-1.jpg) really (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Off-Shoulder-Knit-Style.jpg) REALLY (http://www.bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Boa-Jacket-Style.jpg) tired of the, "Uguu~ Desu~" cute loli, little girl, whatever you wanna call it outfits. Where's the pants? Why are there so many skirts? Is having more unique hair styles that aren't twin tails too much to ask for? Does Sega hate us?

...Do they think everyone wants to look like this?

[SPOILER-BOX]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeMESI2CMAEd0rH.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

But ultimately what damns the entire system for me and likely a lot of other players, is that it's just simply too expensive to work with layered wear. As someone that doesn't have the money to scratch nor the materials to make desirable fodders yet, I have to rely mostly on tacos and dailies, the former which was nerfed and the latter might as well be called stealth nerfed cause taco dailies rarely show up anymore as they've been mostly shoved out with shitty gathering ones. Like, the full Lady Tacker outfit reaches as high as 14m for the desirable colors in the set. When a popular outfit came out pre-layered wear, they were 5m-7m during release at most (except Cursed Coat, I guess?), but it hasn't even been a month and the price of Tacker is double that. I'm not gonna put any funds in this silly system when the previous one was clearly fine for the player. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't broken like this.

...there's also the EP 4 debacle and gathering money grabbing too, but that's besides the point.

[LordKaiser]

Bring the Lv. cap to Lv.100

[jooozek]

customers don't like limited systems? better bring more limited systems :wacko:

[TehCubey]

Correlation does not imply causation.

1. Sales were dropping for a while now
2. EP4 rolls out
3. "Guys it's totally EP4's fault"

I blame people getting tired of the game and to a lesser extent the economic situation of Japan, which means individual people may have less disposable income. This is why Sega is trying to bring in new players with the anime.

However.

PSO2 is one of Sega's most successful games. It generates massive income. Even with the income decreasing, the income is still a lot. The PSO2 anime is a massive commercial success too, despite its less than stellar quality (large parts of it due to Sega adding ingame bonuses to the BD release, but still). The game is doing fine. Thinking it's in trouble is just playing Chicken Little.

By the way:

To all the people who think Sega needs to put less sexy/cutesy scratch items in the game - are you kidding me? Those things sell like hotcakes. Maybe you personally don't like them, but you were never the target audience. The west is not the target audience either, and Sega doesn't care about expanding to non-JP markets. If an item isn't fanservicey or cute (and these two things are not the same but just for this post I'll lump them together), it sells for far less at the visiphone, because less people are interested in buying it. It also means less people are interested in rolling for it, so AC sales decrease.

[wefwq]

Correlation does not imply causation.

1. Sales were dropping for a while now
2. EP4 rolls out
3. "Guys it's totally EP4's fault"

I blame people getting tired of the game and to a lesser extent the economic situation of Japan, which means individual people may have less disposable income. This is why Sega is trying to bring in new players with the anime.

However.

PSO2 is one of Sega's most successful games. It generates massive income. Even with the income decreasing, the income is still a lot. The PSO2 anime is a massive commercial success too, despite its less than stellar quality (large parts of it due to Sega adding ingame bonuses to the BD release, but still). The game is doing fine. Thinking it's in trouble is just playing Chicken Little.

By the way:

To all the people who think Sega needs to put less sexy/cutesy scratch items in the game - are you kidding me? Those things sell like hotcakes. Maybe you personally don't like them, but you were never the target audience. The west is not the target audience either, and Sega doesn't care about expanding to non-JP markets. If an item isn't fanservicey or cute (and these two things are not the same but just for this post I'll lump them together), it sells for far less at the visiphone, because less people are interested in buying it. It also means less people are interested in rolling for it, so AC sales decrease.
People keep blaming EP4 because of it's controversial contents, also it's all happening on this episode as well, it can't be helped but giving EP4 all the bad look.

[Totori]

It's the amount of content, those ticket's make peeps not want to easily buy them, as they can't be traded. But it's just a short drought it happened before, when they start new episodes.

We need more cute outfits, but not layered wear, it's annoying. Go back to one piece outfits.

[Para]

Kan fucking Colle.

Where is it Sega?

[arokidaaron]

Go back to one piece outfits.

I agree. The layered wear are kinda ok, but they get too boring imo. Boring in a sense that it really doesn't fit the whole sci-fi esque genre of pso2. It's too casual, the explorer ones were kinda ok tho but eh...

[landman]

I agree. The layered wear are kinda ok, but they get too boring imo. Boring in a sense that it really doesn't fit the whole sci-fi esque genre of pso2. It's too casual, the explorer ones were kinda ok tho but eh...
They can be sci-fi, they are just not aiming at it. Normal one-piece clothes also have a major amount of casual wear vs sci-fi.



If I actually spent money on AC scratch, I would actually feel gimped by the current scratch, the main problem being the amount of items: if there are like 10 different items that go 10+M, but everything else is crap, having male related items multiplied by each layer and colour just gives you less chances to get the valuable stuff you want, so you either spend more money to get the same result, or do the intelligent thing and don't even bother trying. Solution: those items should be bundled in packages in the scratch.

People spending less meseta because they can't resell it and being consumable items prices go up... looking at the prices, I'm not sure this is the case, base wears go easily at 10+M, that was extraordinarily rare with one piece outfits, so this is an incentive for AC spenders, base-wears are the new LA/hairstiles, deal with it.

Sega could do a ticket extraction function if they wanted (they added PA disc extraction to PSU later in the game's life), but they provably don't want, and that would lower the price of EVERY currently expensive AC item other than crafting items, and that would also lower the incentive of spending moneys on AC.

[Neith]

The layered wear is probably one cause of the reduced AC sales. Before you could just play scratch and hope you get one outfit but now you need to get a decent inner, base and outer which can be really cost prohibitive. It might also explain why prices in playershops are going up if there's less people playing the scratches.

I like the layered wear system (with the exception of making inner and base tickets, which I hate) but it's brought a whole host of problems to the game too. Inners and bases being consumable tickets means that less and less end up on sale so prices go up a lot quicker than regular costumes did.

To echo above, it would be great if we could 'un-use' hairstyles/basewears etc but that would give people even less reason to play the AC scratch so I can't see Sega ever doing it.

[LordKaiser]

Well SEGA constructed a story just to defecate on it. Episode 4 made some people rage quit for the story alone XD.

The story has always being meh but at least it was running well...Till episode 4 pulling a Star Ocean 3 on us.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Wish people would stop blaming layered wear tbh.

Did everyone forget the absurd numbers of:

-recolors
-revivals
-yukatas, kimonos, traditional japanese outfits, etc
-recolored yukatas, kimonos, etc
-FKING SCHOOL UNIFORMS OF ALL FLAVORS THAT WE CONTINUE TO GET TO THIS DAY!

There's also the male clothing I can't exactly fault for existing.

All of the above was bloating AC scratch for YEARS before we had layered wear, killing any desire to bother playing scratch, and it's still in the current scratches where we do have layered wear!

That bloat is the main reason why I, and many others here don't spend money on scratch. The only time I've EVER did AC scratch was the first time they brought the support item-only scratch because it was a narrow pool of items where I stood a good chance of getting what I want/something valuable (I made 6 mil from 200AC. That was a good fking deal!), which leads to my next point; they should have begun to split up the AC scratch into smaller subcategories quite some time ago.

For example, a set up like this would give a buyer less of the needle-in-a-haystack feeling that discourages most from even spending money to try:

-new aesthetic scratch (the newest fashions/LAs released. Changes bi-weekly)

-two week old aesthetic scratch (two week old fashions/LAs. Changes bi-weekly)

-revival/recolor scratch (has revived and recolored costumes that accompany/plague our current scratches with bloat. Similar to FUN scratch's system, 4 week old revivals/recolors are removed, and more revivals/recolors added bi-weekly)

-support item scratch (grinding/affixing/crafting support items only. Mostly stagnant until a new class adding item is needed, or until SEGA decides to replace noble boosts the same way they did the old 25-stat boosts)

To me, this is the bare minimum of how they should split scratches now, despite the number of people that would love to see even more subcategories, such as accessories/LAs in a scratch of their own.

Narrower prize pools -> more likely to get something valuable/wanted -> more willing to buy into it -> more people scratching -> more supply + lower meseta prices in game, and more money for SEGA

Why isn't this a thing yet? Anyone has any idea why?

[TaigaUC]

I don't think it's just layerwear, I think it's everything.
It's rare to get a decent scratch with stuff I actually want. The friend who wanted to quit still almost never buys anything.
They keep releasing really bad color variations for old outfits.
Many popular and rare AC items still haven't been revived for a long time.

Layerwear itself has potential, but SEGA isn't taking much advantage of it.
They're also limiting it way too much. Very few and poor choices of colors, and lots of unchangeable colors.
Sometimes, the most important colors for matching, white and black, aren't available.

I bought tons of bases and outers, but I end up using the same few combinations/colors on every character.
Yes, I understand that there's still not many options available.
But there's also the issue that many of the outfits being released simply do not match with each other, for whatever reason.
I thought it was pretty awesome that Sofia's jacket highlights change to match the Lady Tucker basewear highlights.
But at the same time, the cap DOES NOT change colors, and stays green.
Seriously, what the hell SEGA.

A JP friend hasn't been buying layerwear because the physics on the layerwear barely move.
Previous costumes were pretty liberal with the physics on skirts and stuff, but layerwear is nearly entirely static.
I assume it's because they don't want layerwear clipping with outer.
But that shouldn't be a problem because outer doesn't simply overlap base, it also culls unseen polygons, so it shouldn't really clip.

There's also the fact that layerwear makes most character look pregnant.
I thought they would react to the stupidity and fix it while it's still early, but it looks like they just don't give a shit.
I'm sure some people aren't buying layerwear because of that.

Not entirely relevant, but I feel like there isn't much reason to play PSO2 right now, other than to cap characters and earn money for outfits.
They haven't added a decent new gameplay mode for a ridiculously long time.
I've been fine with my gear for a long time. I have almost no reason to upgrade.

[doomdragon83]

Did everyone forget the absurd numbers of:

-recolors

I know I've said something about this before but the inability to color our outfits however we want is dumb. Even more so is the fact the same outfit with a different color is basically a different item altogether for example: Active Camisole and Active Camisole Shadow, there's literally no reason to do this besides greed and they just clutter up the scratch.

Another thing is why not add unpopular or old outfits to the NPC in the shop area who sells outfits? That NPC is one of most worthless NPCs (along with that guy who sells units), of course, they are sold without them being treated as AC items so they aren't exploited for stuff far more valuable than them. Why not allow this?

[starwind75043]

I would say its a little bit of everything, Plus the overall Japanese economy is not so great atm.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-14/japan-s-economy-contracted-again-in-final-quarter-of-2015

[gabor100]

The 1st revival was 1 year after the game came out.

We can whine another 2-3 years about it, but i doubt they will stop the revivals/recolors and it will only get worse when they start doing it with layerwear.

[Zyrusticae]

Still wish they'd just straight-up sell stuff in the shop with no randomness needed. Give people the choice, and I'm pretty fucking sure a lot of folks would rather just buy the items they want straight-up.

Of course, I have no idea if this would provide less revenue than the small number of "whales" that spend hundreds per month on AC scratches, or if those two groups overlap in any way or fashion. But, from a consumer standpoint, having everything in that random scratch is just such an awful value proposition I'm surprised they've stuck with it for so long.

[isCasted]

I know I've said something about this before but the inability to color our outfits however we want is dumb. Even more so is the fact the same outfit with a different color is basically a different item altogether for example: Active Camisole and Active Camisole Shadow, there's literally no reason to do this besides greed and they just clutter up the scratch.

That's not as much greed as it is shitty coding and no desire to change it. One-piece outfits that are recolorable are all non-CAST, while CAST-compatible ones can't be recolored, because CASTs are supposed to be recolorable themselves. The game seemingly wasn't supposed to have (commonly accessible) multirace costumes.
Or multicolor costumes (yet for some reason could add stuff like secondary hair color), so, in addition to colored variations of multirace costumes we now have colored variations of non-CAST costumes (for example, Zelsius Snow). And now that we have C versions of costumes (for example, Zelsius C), you'd think those ones would use CAST subcolors too? Nope. They'd have to release recolored versions of those ones (Zelsius Snow C???). But they won't, because that'd be shameless, and it would once more point out how messed up the whole system is.
Also, they made CV versions of old CAST parts as an excuse for not allowing us to change/swap colors of separate parts freely.

...Suddenly, layered outfits! With separate color setting, even for CASTs!.. for [Ou] only. Well, now it's definitely greed.

[Azure Falcon]

Why isn't this a thing yet? Anyone has any idea why?

Japanese F2P (mobile) games virtually never function like that. It's probably because the 1 pool mechanics are very profitable for certain types of games, unfortunately Sega don't seem to understand that PSO2 isn't one of them.

I'll use Starlight Stage as an example, there is just 1 paid gacha pool of idol cards, 3-5 new ones are added every week or so and those new ones will have a way high pull rate while they are the current spotlight ones. The first gacha update of each month will add a few limited cards that will be forever removed from the game when the next batch is added. The pool has grown so large people aren't pulling for old cards any more, because the chance you get what you want is about as bad as getting an Austere drop from PD. It works though, because people are spending stupid amounts of money pulling when the card they want is added (doubly so for limited ones) as they know it is their only chance to get what they want.

tl;dr - Strong character card based games can get away with it because people feel the pressure that they MUST get it now, or they'll never get it. PSO2 is failing using this setup because clothing isn't anywhere near as compelling, and you can always buy it later from other people.

Your idea for the pools is exactly what Sega needs to do, have a low AC cost pool for revivals, a medium AC cost pool for support items, and a gold AC cost pool for ONLY the new scratch items. But hey, it's Sega we're talking about - they won't do it.

[Achelousaurus]

I'm pretty sure that Layered Wear would increase AC Scratch sales, not decrease it...

AC Scratches being worth more meseta = incentive to scratch. The majority of people never actually scratch for an outfit, it's for meseta to get outfits and LAs. That being said though, the "better" the items, the more people will want to scratch because "it's bound to be worth a lot of meseta". While Layered Wear is expensive, it's expensive because people are buying it.

Furthermore, scratch sales have been on the decline since before Episode 4, it's not a recent thing. All the changes to scratches since Episode 4 are responses to the lowering sales to try and get people to scratch more (layered wear ticket system, bonus scratch items, etc).
Layered Wear has already semi-failed and been semi-replaced though.
This scratch outer wear is entirely gone. Outfits are complete with only base and inner wear and instead we have regular costumes back for some stuff.
The Jp players must have complained a lot.


The issue is people like to look at supply and demand to determine price, when it's more complicated than that.../QUOTE]
Amen.
Layered wear so far is kinda boring and most of the money is spent on character bound tickets. Many people don't give a fuck so once AC buyers realized they aren't actually selling, they stopped buying tons of scratch for meseta.
Sega also entirely missed the timing.
While you can mix and match regular clothes much more easily than sci fi fantasy outfits, these are by no means interesting enough for people to go and buy a fuckton of scratch (indeed, the bloat is real) for or spend a large amount of meseta on.
What Seha should have done is pick a really popular collab and introduced layered wear with that or least have their designers sit down and make an effort, properly researching what kind of outfits people want the most.
But Sega was too lazy, as always.

What stings BY FAR the most about al this bs and the Ep 4 catastrophe, is that there are so many easy ways for Sega to get people to play more (which will make them pay more) and just make them pay more.
We got XH nearly 2 years ago in EQs. It's long since overdue we get it for all quests. All XH drops are already decided, Sega needs to slap an arbitrary level from 70-74 (5 numbers Sega, just 5!) onto quests and suddenly everyone will be all over that shit cause of 12* drops (low without LQ and EQ so no one can abuse and no one even complains).
Sega must have a huge amount of old design constest stuff lying around and a lot of it is simply amazing but Sega refuses to use it, either because they are too retarded to know peoiple want it or Sega is too retarded to have a decent terms of use for submitting something to the contests (i.e. people not surrendering all rights upon sbumitting regardless of outcome).
There, lots of scratch people want.
Stuff like my set. Let people spend AC to have 30 slots or something.
Let people spend AC to increase weapon palette.
And for god's sake, the ex storage. People forces people to stop using it for no reason. Either Sega cannot comprehend that there is profit if people get character storage AND ex storage, or they need to hire developers that don't constantly cost them money due to their inability to implement a user friendly system.
The game is full of shit like this. Easy and obvious opportunities for Sega to make people play more and pay more. But instead of going with these and giving people what they evidently want, Sega changes the sysem to benefit literally no one.

Oh and Sega changing the weapon palette mechanics proves that Sega is not actually afraid of or too lazy to change core mechanics as I always thought.
They are literally too retarded to understand what the problem with the game is.
And considering how eager people are to give feedback, it simply means Sega is not really listening. Players do 95% of this part of the work for Sega and Sega still can't be assed to do their 5% (i.e. just listening to people).

I feel like Sega is run by the exact same people that run the company I work at. People not actually interested in success but everyone instered in doing their own thing which is only marginally related to making the project work or making profit.

EP 4 feels like the worst thing that has ever happened to PSO2 (from Sega, not counting DDoS 'n shit). But it's not the source of losing money, it's Sega's backfiring attempt at a solution.

[QUOTE=Maninbluejumpsuit;3342972]Wish people would stop blaming layered wear tbh.
I really agree with the narrower pools (preferably no rng involved at all but jps love it and might actually buy a lot less scratch without).
But layered wear is even more bloat. It bloats even the narrow pools.
And all of the scratches with layered wear had revivals of old 1piece costumes.
Revivals are also absolutely mandatory. Not just that letting content expire like this is a terribad business idea, players don't get anything out of it either.
If there is a cool accessory you want from 2 years ago, that's it, it's unobtainable without revival. Even costumes can be if people don't resell them and if they are likely to be ridiculously expensive.
I got screwed hard by a bunch of revivals but even I wouldn't want them to ever stop.

And recolors are the same. They are very important because costumes look different and some costumes are much better in some colors than others. Or maybe you actually want a rainbow. I have several colors of various costumes.

Just, Sega could be a little more generous with the colors and not only start with 3 whe everyone knows it's gonna be 6 or so by then end anyway.

That brings us back to narrow pools though, if you had one just for revivals, it would not bloat anything either.

At this point Sega is like rainman. Brilliance is in there somewhere and occasionally shows itself, but usually hidden behind a thick layer of incomprehensible nonsense.


The 1st revival was 1 year after the game came out.

We can whine another 2-3 years about it, but i doubt they will stop the revivals/recolors and it will only get worse when they start doing it with layerwear.
You don't understand, we come here exclusively to whine and vent cause we all know this. Talking about it is very therapeutic XD

PPPPPPS: just realized that gold scratch is outdated garbage and makes no sense at all.
If Sega had any real interest in scratch market (i.e. their profits) they would realize that tickets tend to sell for 5 times or more the money costumes sell for on average.
Especially lobby actions and flashy fancy stuff like wings or eyes or FX shit like sparkles. Yet you get this stuff from the regular scratch that's less than half of what gold scratch costs. At this point no one sane gets gold scratch cause you are just wasting AC.
Sega already has a narrow pool at an absurd price but only for the entirely wrong type.
Sega should do away with gold, raise general scratch prices (as compensation) and make narrow pools, it's a big change that would greatly improve your chances of getting what you want so people would easily spend more money on it than regular scratch.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I never suggested they stop with revivals and recolors. Just to put them in separate scratch lineup alongside, but not mixed-in with the newest scratch items.

[Hysteria1987]

I never suggested they stop with revivals and recolors. Just to put them in separate scratch lineup alongside, but not mixed-in with the newest scratch items.That'd be nice, but unfortunately it'd mess with Sega's profits too much- two smaller pools instead of one big pool means people get what they want easier, which means less AC spent. I mean, they *could* do it, but I think they'd need to bulk both pools out to make it worth their while, and that means more work on their end, which leads to...

I think it's pretty clear to us all by now that Sega are gonna do the bare minimum to get by, as this is on the smaller end of MMORPGs (and even they have massive costs to keep running and maintain), and it's already doing the job they want it to. I mean, the My Set function at the class counter was never updated to include the new Rings (they get unequipped every time you use it), and the Exchange 10 option still exists at the Recycle Shop for cubing and the like, despite the new method making that completely redundant.

I can't say I got much to complain about, though. They're a business, and they're trying to treat everything from a business perspective- whether or not *we* think they're doing the right thing isn't all that important, I suppose, as they're gonna have their own perspective, and data and expectations that we'll never see.

[Xaeris]

I mean, the My Set function at the class counter was never updated to include the new Rings (they get unequipped every time you use it)

Update your saved profiles with the rings equipped.

[sesiom000]

This game is having many issues right now and i think everything is having an impact on SEGA economy:

The first major problem is the pregnant layered costumes me and my friends refuse to buy those because of that and also being casual and the combination of colors being really bad with each other.

Second problem is the lack of innovation on the outfits, the school wear are basically the same for 4 years now it has been recycled too much and layered costumes you cant separate shoes from the shirt and the tickets are bound to character.Nowadays the collaboration outfits are more appealing than the pso2 ones.

Third problem is the lack of gameplay,this game has all its gameplay scheduled including the mining mechanic that didn't last a week, why would i spend AC on stuff if im playing other games that have actually gameplay and i can play when i want and not when SEGA wants?

Fourth problem is the damn recycled EQ over and over and over and over and over again all this 4 years we have been killing all the same monsters over again to the point that its painful specially with the no reward at the end.Why would anyone do Forest,City,Darker Den,Lilipa,Volcano???
Its been 4 years and we are still doing those things as of today it makes no sense.

Fifth problem: Casino and Challenge mode are time consuming and super boring for what it gives, you are better off ignoring those completely and using the casino cards they send you.

Sixth problem: no increase in level cap in years im still level 75 and i want to do other skill tree combinations...

Seventh problem: they forgot about the crafting system completely...

Eight problem: No new PA and no new PA customization...

Ninth problem: horrible affixing system to the point you got to be a billionaire to affix your gear.

Tenth problem :soul drops are still broken...there is 8 slots on this game but you cant even get a 4 slots leopard soul easily...

Eleventh problem: EQ are a cancer too this game they are either unrewarding (old EQ), super easy(profound darkness) completely broken (magatsu) or boring as hell (Tower defenses) and some of those even overshadow the entire game with easy 13* weapons and excube pinatas...

I still dont see the "Reborn" they mentioned anywhere...

[EvilMag]

EQs are so dumb when it comes to rewards you have shit like Lagatsu that rewards you 100+ cubes for doing fuck all meanwhile you have Dark Falz Elder where you can run all the boosts you can and you'll be lucky to get one 10*

[Cyber Meteor]

Well, they basically designed EP4 for new players : Summoner was advertised as a beginner class, last live broadcast was about some new mechanics for new players, it appeared to be those "New Age" weapons and that Data Collection System, and skill ring leveling making sense only if you do it with a low level char since it requires to get same XP amount as going from lvl 1 to 70. So sure, veterans players will feel that new content as being pretty dull and for now the most intersting additions on EP4, imo, are story boards . I felt it would go that way when they said SU was a beginner class for some reasons, so i would wait until Summer before we start getting back to more real content addition since they can't keep it like this for too long , i mean, if things go bad (since Gathering came in, there is almost always freemium space in b22 after JP peak hours, that's like never seen before, for consecutive days i mean) they won't have many choice left to get back ppl playing (and that's implying players will be willing to get back which isn't granted)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

That'd be nice, but unfortunately it'd mess with Sega's profits too much- two smaller pools instead of one big pool means people get what they want easier, which means less AC spent.


Less people are spending AC on scratches already than ever before. Sticking to their guns (and even exacerbating some problems) with how they're handling AC scratch clearly isn't doing their profits any favors.

And honestly, I suggest this idea from a business perspective, not as a player who wants an easier time getting their dressup on; their current system is less attractive to spend money on than it ever has been. If business is conducted with no consideration for satisfying your consumers with their purchases, and only thinking about how to part them from their yen, profits will be lost much like what's happening now.

I guess what everyone wants to know at this point is how star gems will net SEGA money, and how are they going to juice us all in the process.

[Hysteria1987]

Update your saved profiles with the rings equipped.I've done that twice now, but that was around the time the system was implemented - unless they've fixed it more recently, they just aren't sticking. I'll try again if I log on again this arvo to see if they've made a change. They may well have, I don't know - to be perfectly honest, I don't really read what they do in the patch notes :P

[Xaeris]

There's still too much I don't know about star gems (they really phoned it in with that name), but I think their purpose is to create another indirect stimulus to drive scratch demand, just like the recycle shop. Before the recycle shop, in any given scratch, there would be items (i.e, male clothing) that sold for absolute junk. What the recycle shop did was give every item on the scratch a minimum value by guaranteeing they'd at least be able to contribute towards an Affix+20%. That minimum value was still a joke compared to what items (i.e, female clothing) that could carry their own weight sold for, but it was still better than the straight nothing a scratch could potentially draw you.

With the advent of free...ish affix+30/40s though, the recycle shop doesn't serve that purpose as well as it used to. Yeah, AC fodder is more expensive than its ever been, but the price hasn't nearly kept up with inflation. The "it" item from a scratch used to be like 5-6m while AC fodder went for...I want to say 70k. Now, it's 30m for the "it" item and AC fodder has only gone up to 200k outside of boost week.

Right, so star gems. I would say the purpose of star gems is to give a secondary reason to purchase clothing items. As it is now, we buy the clothes we like, full stop. If I'm unimpressed with school uniform #241 or Fate collab item #341974-41743b, I don't buy it. Now, attach star gems to every outfit and all of a sudden, I have a reason to buy those outfits. Not a compelling reason, because seriously, fuck those outfits, but a reason. That reason creates demand, which, in tandem with a limited supply (thanks layerwear tickets!), drives up the price. Scratch items selling for a higher price means that it's more attractive to buy scratch tickets, which is more money in Sega's pocket.

Of course, this is mostly conjecture.

[Dark Priest]

Still wish they'd just straight-up sell stuff in the shop with no randomness needed. Give people the choice, and I'm pretty fucking sure a lot of folks would rather just buy the items they want straight-up.

They can't make money that way, they want to make sure they squeeze as much cash out of you as possible by making it RNG, choosing your self will simply make it not worth it for sega, the name of the game with AC stratch: dump as much money as possible.

Why do you think gathering is so hated? you pretty much won't get anywhere without using AC or getting very luck with a fever. Cause it feels so good to get fever when you are 30/100 stamina.


Of course, I have no idea if this would provide less revenue than the small number of "whales" that spend hundreds per month on AC scratches, or if those two groups overlap in any way or fashion. But, from a consumer standpoint, having everything in that random scratch is just such an awful value proposition I'm surprised they've stuck with it for so long.

This is how the game has BEEN working, People spends hundereds per month to try and get what they want. They stuck with it this long because it worked. people dump cash to try to get items fighting the RNG, and Sega is celebrating.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

This is how the game has BEEN working, People spends hundereds per month to try and get what they want. They stuck with it this long because it worked. people dump cash to try to get items fighting the RNG, and Sega is celebrating.

Which hints at the other possible problems: SEGA has been releasing so much crap in AC scratches that the whales won't bite/whales went to play other games.

[Quatre52]

Sometimes I wonder if PSO2 would have been more successful if the franchise was a thing in the Americas and Europe. That is, the game wasn't just simply a "niche" Japanese game where it's money comes from shitty sex-appeal outfits and people buying premium when they don't really need to. Come on now, during what points throughout this game lifetime do you feel getting prem was worth it besides shop (made irrelevant by cubes), and that time where you converted weps/units into passes (not as important thanks to 13* and red wep focus).

A bit late replying to this post, but, it WAS a thing here(I can't say so much for europe) The game sold well and kept a really good sized player base on the games that actually released here (PSO, PSO V2, PSO E1 & 2, PSO BB(tho to a bit lesser extent due to being pc exclusive) and PSU.
(Yea, I left ep3 out, as it wasn't that successful)

[Dark Priest]

Which hints at the other possible problems: SEGA has been releasing so much crap in AC scratches that the whales won't bite/whales went to play other games.

Pretty much, Altho this type of thing is subjective, most of the fashion gear is complete dog shit to look at it, it's a game and obviously it's not supposed to make sense but some crap just go overboard, Yea i would love to look like a walking motorcycle.. etc.

So yea, they are clearly just pumping random crap for cash grabbing.

but on the other hand, this game has no REAL endgame, you will notice most of "pro" players simply log on for the worthwhile EQs, sort out items, then log off till the next one, and log on for dailies. that's about it. so most aren't on enough to dump cash in the AC scratch.

[MightyHarken]

PSO2 needs more persistent content, if only they released an open world styled planet, with some player killing allowed or pvp, anything to make us feel something when playing. It's always the same shit, kill mobs mobs mobs no purpose at all. Another thing they could do is adding ultimate mode for existing planets

[Z-0]

I think the draw of PSO is the co-operative PvE instanced content, so something like the above is completely not suited for PSO. The issue is more than none of the content feels "worthwhile" to play, apart from Emergency Quests and a couple of other things, so people get bored fast since there's no purpose to playing in a lot of content.

That's the issue, not a lack of content. Game has more than enough as far as I'm concerned. They should be going back and balancing the game out instead of adding more and more things.

[Zorak000]

Yeah, stuff like SHAQs basically serving as the XH difficulty of the pre-ep3 areas feels very hack-y; especially since live weapons aren't nearly as good as the Kuron guns/Tokyo weapons

[Petunia]

The game is 4 years old, SEGA handled the entire thing poorly from the get go but lasted this long because Phantasy Star was still a well loved brand.
The brand can only keep people around for so long.

I think EP4 was the straw that broke the camel's back. It feels tacked on, rather than an expansion/addition to the game. Everything about it doesn't mix at all with the older content.
This is just the result of people's cries not being heard and them moving onto other things. There's been a lot of new MMOs released the past few months, its not surprising that PSO2 would be hitting a low.

[Tunga]

with some player killing allowed or pvp,

PvP in this game would be a terrible idea.

[CoWorker]

PvP in this game would be a terrible idea.

I agree that pvp will be broken...but i'll take AIS pvp with other AIS variants like a melee focused, slow but uses heavy artillery, etc.

Still waiting for AIS customization....

[wahahaha]

Client sided combat, yet you want pvp.
AC scratch has been dead because of the lack of content, nothing else to say i believe.

[Zeroem]

I think whatever I'm going to say was already covered by others before me.
EP4 by itself is not really *that* horrible, but it definitely broke the camel's back for some people.

Summoner's theme might felt off if compared to the rest of the overall themes of PSO2; but despite each individual's opinion about Summoner, the class itself is actually service-able (with enough mesetas, cookies, and luck around *13 eggs) in higher-level content. EP4's story so far is not on the level of Star Ocean 3's level of twist if people are willing to give the story mode (and the anime at least from episode 7 onwards) a try; but it's easy to think that SEGA did a Star Ocean 3 on first-glance basis. Layering wear works great on theory, but definitely hurt itself with the ticket system (and limited color choices) for both underwear and base wear; that's not even mentioning about how horrible outer wear works on a non-flat-chested/non-loli females. Gathering, as I feared, is a mess on the big picture. Stamina system indirectly force players to buy the extra stamina, no standalone tileset for gathering, rarity of crucial materials, and so on.

And that's not even added with SEGA's past mishandling with PSO2. Especially regarding abandoned features (looking at you, PAs customization).

Nevertheless, it's still the early months of EP4, and I guess just give SEGA benefit of a doubt regarding their future EP4 contents. We can always give SEGA our piece of mind indirectly with our money, and hopefully 'actual' JP players would feel the same.

As for PvP, it won't work on PSO2. Granted, there are 2 titles in whole PS franchise when PVP worked, but 2 titles are still a small sample-size to include pvp system on SEGA's current flagship MMO which carried a big franchise name like Phantasy Star.

[jooozek]

pvp is toxic masculinity, problematic etc :wacko:

[wefwq]

Every new stuff added was too self-contained, rather than integrating it with the other game mechanic/game mode, so the said feature will died in no time and no one will brought it up. Because of this, new content doesn't last too long or flat out not worth doing.

Kinda hope that they re-evaluate the game content quality, rather than adding new one.

I'd rather have them slowing ""update"" (read:fashion update) interval from 2~3 weeks to only once every month if that means increasing content quality :-?

[TaigaUC]

They could always add more mini-games, and those could have PvP.
Didn't PSO1 have tennis or something?

I personally think EP4 has been very disappointing, especially for its "Reborn" subtitle.

Stuff that bugs me about episode 4, off the top of my head:
- It's half a year later than any other episode, and yet has the least content.
- Still no new game modes, still lacking game modes that PSO1 had.
- Still focusing very heavily on 13 star dripfeeding and limited Lambda Grinders.
- Still no Extra Hard for most quests.
- So many dead systems and new ones that essentially do the same thing.
- Still only one Weapon Camo at a time.
- Mostly fixes that should have been there to begin with.
- The graphics update should have been ready with episode 4's launch.
- Graphics update is mostly stuff that should have been in the game to begin with.
- Graphics update still lacks stuff like higher polygons and moving fingers.
- Gathering sucks in general. Worst gathering I've seen in any game I've ever played.
- Summoner could have been way better. I wouldn't be playing it if it wasn't so effective/strong.
- Story is super ultra cliche and embarassingly lame. It's also filled with tons of super boring cliche filler.
- I don't remember how slow the other episodes were, but this one seems extra slow.
- Layerwear is a pain, unnecessarily limited, and expensive as f**k.
- Game got a lot laggier again. Servers also laggier than before.
- Accessory rotation, scale, etc have stupid limitations and awful axes.
- Cannot rotate or scale sheathed weapon.

Stuff that I like about episode 4, off the top of my head:
- Well, they fixed some stuff.
- At least we're getting a graphics update at all.
- Some extra variation in layerwear.
- Franca's Cafe is nice. Wish there was more we could do there.
- At least we can scale/rotate accessories, sort of.
- Extra sliders are nice.
- Bonus Quests make levelling take a lot less time.

Stuff they really need to put in the game, off the top of my head:
- More color customization options.
- Horizontally mirror hairstyles and accessories.
- Better chat GUI.
- Multiple weapon camos.
- Shoewear.
- Tutorials to teach people how to play properly.
- They should take all the very similar systems and simplify/combine them.
- More game modes. Seriously.
- They need to fix the pregnant bellies.
- Characters really need automatic facial expressions. Moving hands would be nice, too.
- A way for people to see if they contributed significantly.
- I wish they'd get rid of grinding, but that's not going to happen. It's not fun, and only creates problems.
- Stop adding stuff that increases the gap between good and bad players. They need to narrow the gap, not widen it.
- They should get rid of all the trash rares that have zero meaning.

I was thinking about how, in PSO2, even if you play well, it's really difficult to tell whether you made any difference in a multi.
That results in a much less satisfying experience.
If you play well and your multi sucks balls, you will feel like you are useless.

In general, episode 4 just feels like the same shit as episode 3.
The game hasn't changed much in the past year or so.
There hasn't been anything I've really enjoyed and wanted to do.

When they add a new difficulty, it's still the same content, but the game gets "harder" in terms of stats and gear, ie. progression.
The problem is, I keep seeing people with the best gear in the game who are still really bad players.
Simply having the best gear isn't enough. There's also skill trees, knowing which attacks to use, etc.
I'm not saying SEGA needs to make the game easier, but they can't keep bunching completely different playstyles of players together without causing problems.

[wefwq]

wall of text
They did give PSO2 mini-games, but no one give a single fuck.
- that footbal thing near giant monitor
- mesetan shooter
- roulette
- crappy slot machine
- blackjack

The "Reborn" part, are probably to refer the new look (slider level 6) for PSO2 though.
They might give cool update later, but this episode are just lackluster so far, yes.


- Tutorials to teach people how to play properly.
I think someone already give the respond for this, the game already put some guide in-game but it's all in Japanese.
They write basic stuff that player need to know, this usualy shown when player do something for the very first time.

[Zysets]

Stamina issues aside, I have no idea why they didn't make gathering a part of crafting.
It's the most logical thing to do, gather materials, use them to craft. Rings could have been something you crafted.

How about having unlimited gathering with premium, or at least not making it such a pain with stamina.

Gathering could have been better, no doubt.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I said that elsewhere. Every new system is basically:
1. Very similar to past systems.
2. Completely independent/separate of past systems.
3. Involves doing the same old shit from the past few years.
4. Rewards players with a slight increase in combat effectiveness.
5. Isn't fun.

Where is the actual new content and gameplay and challenges and stuff?
It's still just "do the same old thing for a slightly new reward".
I'd like to see the enquete results for how many people asked for stuff like new bosses, modes, etc.
Because SEGA obviously hasn't been delivering much along those lines.



(teh repliez)
Most of those minigames rely heavily on RNG and are also... two years old now?

The knowledgeable JP friend I often speak of has told me that the capsules are not an effective way to teach people how to play.
I forget their explanation though (I was dead tired).
I know that my other JP friends (including casual/female players) do not really read the capsules.
And I personally don't read them.

Do capsules tell people that multipliers > stats?
A lot of people still don't know how to use AIS in TD.

Something I realized from playing some other games... "explanation/instruction pages" tend to confuse me/not sink in.
I need to apply it practically, otherwise I'm not going to easily remember the control scheme from some instruction page I glanced at 10 minutes earlier.
What I mean is that they could add an AIS training course quest for people to mess around in.
It'd be super easy for SEGA to do that, and would solve so many problems.

Some people might say, "they can use the AIS in TD3, Magatsu and TD4".
But the problem is, even if they use it there, there's still the high probability that they aren't using it effectively, and don't realize it.
In the heat of combat, you can't easily watch other players to see what they're doing.
So you can't learn from other players, either.

[wefwq]

RNG are a given though, i can't imagine that if i know that Nyau will 100% draw 5SP on every 5 games i play, or what cards i'll get on every turn?

On mesetan shooter, all you have to are shoot everything beside Umbla, RNG doesn't do much aside from less/more reward you get.
You still "play" regardless, if you don't find it to be fun maybe you're just play to get it's reward rather than enjoying the game itself?
Some people found getting some sort of reward to be more entertaining rather than playing the game itself, yes.

As for message pack and popin guide, obviously you don't read it because it's all in Japanese and majority of it are not copy-pasteable :-?

Also are there any dev who put detailed guide of how to play x mission the most efficient way in their game at all though?
Strategy are meant to be discovered by community, developer task just to give player some rope to introduce the most basic things, something like x in-depth strategy or advanced mathematic doesn't fall into this category.
At very least they usedthis chance to make some strategy guide book, sega love merchandising so much after all.

[Z-0]

If people aren't using things effectively that's their fault for not figuring out how to use things effectively, not the game's.

If someone actually wants to use things effectively, they'll figure it out.

Example (AIS):

Anyone who is concerned about piloting an AIS knows the following things:

- Missiles are dead useless in the majority of situations. They cost too much PP (55), do less damage than sword and have far less AoE. Can also miss (Greatest example (https://youtu.be/UjSrC2wGzBI?t=4m58s)), and since there's no PP recovery when in the air, they're not PP-friendly. Their only use is getting things out of range of melee, such as the gunship, but the gunship is really not that important.
- The highest DPS combo (for a single target) is alternating Normal > Normal > Sword or Normal > PA > Sword (Dash is better than Missiles but doesn't work in every situation).
- Mobbing is just Normal > Normal > Dash. Nothing else, don't spam missiles or use normal sword (unless there's just one target left).
- Shoot towers as you dash to get your PP back and keep going.

Etc... etc...

How do I know these things? I experimented with them and figured it out, and chances are even SEGA doesn't know these things either. If people aren't using things effectively, it's usually because they don't care how to figure out how to use them better.

[TaigaUC]

I figured it out myself too. I'm not talking about people like you and I, Z-0.
What I've said is based not only from my own experiences, but from talking with lots of different players from different countries, and different genders.
Everyone agrees that PSO2 is designed in such a way that it misleads, confuses and overcomplicates.
Many things are not clarified or explained clearly.

There's such a thing as designing your game for people to understand it more easily.
Games didn't used to require people to go out of their way to do in-depth research online just to understand basic mechanics.

Everyone learns differently. In different ways, and at different paces.
Not everyone is resourceful and knowledgeable.
I don't understand the mindset of always blaming the consumer or end-user.
There is such a thing as BAD DESIGN.

The fact is PSO2 tries to appeal to the casual crowd. A good number of PSO2 players are not familiar with games in general.
And yet, PSO2 does not try to account for this fact. At all. Even if you throw real money at PSO2, it won't make you contribute effectively.
I'd even go so far as to say that PSO2 makes casual players feel/believe they are contributing significantly, when they are not.
Do you seriously expect such people to be able to keep up with how PSO2 works, and play on even remotely the same level as seasoned gamers?

[Hysteria1987]

The fact is PSO2 tries to appeal to the casual crowd.I think this causes other problems, too.

If anyone on here's ever paid any attention to anything I've ever written (lol I know), they'd know I think much higher of the original PSO's quest designs than PSO2's. The consciously designed enemy layouts could cause some trouble (not to mention the abilities - remember the Belras and the Zoas!), it took more than one hit to actually kill the basic stuff (and heavier stuff would be a proper fight!), the enemies actually went to attack you instead of hesitating in circles around you, the maps were actually maps as opposed to giant squares you walked around in, and you were on the floor fighting for a given reason in the story, instead of hey here's some random enemies, go fight for a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game for the time I devote to it but I wouldn't want to play it much more than what I do (and it's not all that much, to be honest). I'm not painting a pretty picture, and it does make me wonder what the point of running a lot of the stuff in this game is.

One of the main draws to these original PSO quests was hunting stuff. There was a lot more reason to actually play the game, and dive into a wider variety of quests, when you actually needed to in order to get equipment. Not the best example perhaps, but I spent about a year hunting a Whitill Card, simply for completeness and not because it was any use - every few days, after work, I'd do a run or two of Mines, until it finally dropped. Believe it or not, I actually enjoyed doing that- it was fun, and a nice way to unwind after a full day of work. It got to the point where I could read my kindle and almost do the runs by muscle memory. I remember this because I nearly ran past the drop doing that :wacko:

In PSO2, what draw do I have to, say, a Tunnels run? There's no sense of accomplishment, and I dare say that's gonna be true of most people, casual or not, because why 'waste' time hunting when you can pop over to the visphone and pick one up that some random stumbled over a week ago? Why conquer an enemy that's mostly just going to rotate around you while it waits for you to finish it off?

I dare say if that were all tightened up earlier, you'd see less of a divide between end-game players and not-quite-end-game players as well. You'd still have your hectic-geared behemoths, but in general the balance would be better, and the game would have more of a sense of accomplishment to it.

But that's just me :razz:

[Z-0]

I personally think the ability to just "pick up an item that someone stumbled upon" is actually a driving force for people to play the game, assuming items are given real rarity and aren't found in the hundreds everytime an Emergency Quest happens. Weapons like Lambda Tigredor, Pandora Extreme, Dragon Slayer, Launcher Legacy, Agito, etc. were all worth tens to hundreds of millions on release and a while after, so there were plenty of things to hunt for in different areas, even if you didn't want said items specifically.

Early in PSO2, you could trade for everything and there were always "good weapons" or "good units" that were rare and costly to buy, and even if you didn't want the item for yourself, you could spend some time playing hoping it would drop so you'd be able to get something else with the funds from selling it.

But "casuals" (for lack of a better term) complained about rich people being able to just buy all items on the market instead of hunting them and that's why all the best stuff is untradeable. They pulled it with 10*s at first, people complained so then they became tradeable and now we're back to square one with untradeable 13*s. SEGA just kind of ushered them in and that was that -- nothing is worth playing because people only want the best, and the best is unobtainable outside of very specific content (that is conveniently timegated), unlike PSO1 where a huge variety of good items were found across the entire game.

I kind of just miss the hunt, but this game does not offer that, which is a shame because Phantasy Star Online and beyond were always about the hunt.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I personally think the ability to just "pick up an item that someone stumbled upon" is actually a driving force for people to play the game, assuming items are given real rarity and aren't found in the hundreds everytime an Emergency Quest happens. Weapons like Lambda Tigredor, Pandora Extreme, Dragon Slayer, Launcher Legacy, Agito, etc. were all worth tens to hundreds of millions on release and a while after, so there were plenty of things to hunt for in different areas, even if you didn't want said items specifically.

Early in PSO2, you could trade for everything and there were always "good weapons" or "good units" that were rare and costly to buy, and even if you didn't want the item for yourself, you could spend some time playing hoping it would drop so you'd be able to get something else with the funds from selling it.

But "casuals" (for lack of a better term) complained about rich people being able to just buy all items on the market instead of hunting them and that's why all the best stuff is untradeable. They pulled it with 10*s at first, people complained so then they became tradeable and now we're back to square one with untradeable 13*s. SEGA just kind of ushered them in and that was that -- nothing is worth playing because people only want the best, and the best is unobtainable outside of very specific content (that is conveniently timegated), unlike PSO1 where a huge variety of good items were found across the entire game.

I kind of just miss the hunt, but this game does not offer that, which is a shame because Phantasy Star Online and beyond were always about the hunt.

Looks to me like they're fishing for a balance. Years ago, getting an 11 you want from falz, or worse yet - a 12* at all was close to impossible. Back then, people tended to ignore those weapon's existence and buy something from the visophone because it seemed so impossible. When people begin to think it''s impossible for long enough, they will abandon that content unless it rewards something else.

[Tunga]

To this day getting a susano gurren(from quartz) or orochi agito is still near impossible. The "hunt" is still in this game that's for sure. The problem is the EQ system severely limits and outright removes any type of farming for these weapons.

[Zysets]

To this day getting a susano gurren(from quartz) or orochi agito is still near impossible. The "hunt" is still in this game that's for sure. The problem is the EQ system severely limits and outright removes any type of farming for these weapons.
On the other hand, I like EQs because it means people are always ready for it when they happen.

I'll give FFXIV as an example, since that's the other game I've played recently. I'd have to open the Duty Finder, and wait until more people also felt like doing whatever Boss or Dungeon I wanted to do, but because EQs are on a schedule, and you can't just do them whenever you want, there's always going to be enough people while it's active.

The whole issue is very complicated, but EQs do have positive effects on things.

[jooozek]

On the other hand, I like EQs because it means people are always ready for it when they happen.

I'll give FFXIV as an example, since that's the other game I've played recently. I'd have to open the Duty Finder, and wait until more people also felt like doing whatever Boss or Dungeon I wanted to do, but because EQs are on a schedule, and you can't just do them whenever you want, there's always going to be enough people while it's active.

The whole issue is very complicated, but EQs do have positive effects on things.

yeah, but unlike pso2 there will be actually people doing those low level dungeons thanks to levelling roulette or other roulettes :wacko: god bless working systems :wacko: pso2 setup for finding a party is such a garbage and is limited by the block systems, cus muh f2p :wacko:

[Keilyn]

I scratch and plenty of people scratch here as well.

It does not take a source or a genius to figure out that if more and more people are complaining about scratches and items in scratches, that such complaints mean that resistance is generated and thus less scratching occurs.

The other point of view is the fact that Spring is here and that means tech, video game, anime, and sci-fi conventions are everywhere now. Peoples' time, money, and attention are divided right now as just being able to be happy and go outside is a good countermeasure to spending money in games right now.

[KazeSenoue]

Because layered wear is, for some stupid reason, ticket-based. Who the fuck thought this would be good idea?

[pkemr4]

the price for the current bonus scratch is retarded if you want everything

[Keilyn]

Its not even warranted...

The reason I post the way I do,
and the reason I am the way that I am as far as games go....

...is simply because I believe that people deserve better.

I understand that the majority in the world consider watching anime, reading manga, and playing video games a complete and total waste of time; and from that standpoint I could agree if one wish to void another totally of art exposure! However, there is a difference between being able to "waste time" in the passing and participation of what is simply fun, and being forced by a developer into wasting a certain amount of hours projected by their development team in order to achieve or advance anything...

Giving you an example....

Anime Boston was a three day anime convention which came alive. I had a lot of fun as a cosplayer there and loved that we all paid our way and there was no P2W in there. Once time expired, the convention was over. Simple as that... there was no plan to "keep me there as long as possible" by having a development team say "Oh I want the average time of individuals staying here be 5 hours at least, so lets move our events and gate our best content for the end of the day." I could choose where I would go, what I would do, where I will eat, and how I will respond to others. I even had "random events" occur and "party-based battles" (through confrontation-events). My experience level went up as I adjusted from one day to the next and came back even better. In PSO2 everything is gated behind the possession of meseta, excubes, tokens, and even AC. I can't go and do whatever I want, because if I make the choice to do whatever I want, I lose out on the things to get me ahead, which makes me a slacker if I want to play a game to my own terms. However, at Anime Boston, I was able to pick out the events and panels I wanted to attend without any strings attached. Once I paid my entrance to Anime Boston, I did not have to PAY or give TOKENS for each thing I wanted. I could simply function on what I had and make it work.

Today it feels that the only thing developers and businessmen agree upon is that they have to keep people in the game as long as possible, so they actually plan an estimate on how much time it takes through the use of RNG and other elements to have players hit most of the areas in the game. This is so common now in Mobile Games, and MMORPGs that its not even funny at the rate its spreading. Its central to Otome Games, and I even know people who were caught up paying money to play games like Candy Crush. Developers think money first, but i feel that now they have crossed the line and are not attempting to FORCE players into paying not just money, but TIME in their own CHOOSING as part of the game-design in order to retain players. Instead all it is doing is causing more and more people to leave and find games that are less restrictive.

Sorry, but having to wait for EQs or running level 80 SHAQs to fight an even fight or run challenge in cyclic fashion is not my idea of fun anymore regardless how anyone expressing how cute or great their characters are or even look.

We play games in order to break our daily routines in our lives, not to sacrifice one routine for another routine.

[Korima]

I think you can considered me a casual player because I arrived at the game in January and in late february I was tired of it and now I'm playing the game less and less (one week without logging) and now I will play only the new EQs (and I mean new ones, no those ones with areas and different enemies) maybe once per month.

[Evangelion X.XX]

I stopped getting premium ever since EP4; the game has become boring.

No new content, nothing to do, I have everything I want.

I don't care about the run-in-circle White Day EQ, I don't care about Elder/Loser, don't care about Beckoning Darkness EQ, Darker Den EQ, City EQ, etc. Don't care about the Sakura Cup...

These days, I only log on for TD3/TD4 (because they're at least fun, TD1/TD2 not so much), Magatsu for hoarding Cubes, and sometimes Profound Darkness. And should I stick around, I'll maybe pug Lilli UQ for souls for a little bit.

The game needs new content.

[TaigaUC]

The whole thing about RNG extending gameplay is true.
It's the easiest way to lengthen playtime without actually creating content.

I think it's not even just about routines, but the fact that so many game systems mimic working in real life that puts me off.
Older/tougher games are more about overcoming a challenge by improving yourself.
But recent games are designed so that anybody can overcome a challenge as long as they put the time/effort/work in, even if they never improve.
It's like lowering the bar so that everyone can pass standardized tests. Not a fan of that.

That's a little different from PSO2 though.
They raise the bar for the purpose of giving people incentive to get new gear, but the new gear by itself doesn't mean they'll be effective.
PSO2 also tries to throw seasoned gamers together with people who don't really play games.
If I recall correctly, Z-0's friend? asked SEGA why they aren't fixing the gameplay, and they bluntly admitted that PSO2 is more for social purposes than the game itself.
I don't remember the exact wording, but it's on this forum somewhere.

If you look at damage meters, people's equipment and people's skill trees, it's really obvious that a select few people are always carrying the majority of random multis.
I know certain people here say, "go find good players and organize your own multi".
I've already pointed out that there is a limited supply of good players.
But it's also a problem when more good players do organized runs, because their absence from random multis weakens random multi strength significantly.
I'm sure SEGA is aware of this, but again, they are doing nothing to rectify the situation.

There's also the fact that much of the content is reused old crap, relying heavily on very slight upgrade incentives to entice people to play.
Think about how many seasoned gamers already have really good gear. Do you think they're going to waste time on the same old boring shit? I don't think so.
That's another reason why the general strength of multis is cratering.
I'd imagine it's mostly people who don't have decent gear that are doing EQs in an attempt to get decent stuff... and of course, I doubt it's dropping for them.

To some extent, I think it's good that PSO2 allows people from different wakes of life to play together.
At the same time, there's too wide of a strength gap, and SEGA has only continued to widen the gap.
There's also the fact that people can't play together easily because of limitations like the block system, 4 per party, 12 per multi, and the shitty GUI.
Even if you buy Premium to get into premium space, there's no guarantee that your multi will be decent.
I've tried doing EQs in all sorts of blocks (early and late), and it's totally random.

A few years back, SEGA advertised PSO2 using Soccer players or something, saying "12 people can play together at the same time!"
But once people realized all of the limitations I mentioned above, they were pretty upset, calling out the advertising as bullshit.
As far as I know, they haven't used such advertising since.

I believe that many, if not all the above issues are the result of bad design decisions.
Whether it's because they're bad at design, or because they are prioritising profit, I don't know for sure.
There are a ton of things SEGA could do to improve player strength, without lowering the bar.
Adding more practical tutorials instead of instruction pages is one such improvement.
It's easier to see the effect something has, and use it in actual play, than to read some sheet explaining it.

Another thing is that there are too many systems that do the same thing.
I'm sure there are many casual players that aren't even aware they exist, or don't know how they affect their character strength.
I know some Japanese female players who didn't even know there's a Recycle Shop.
I'm sure that would be less likely to happen if the game was designed better.
It's probably not even just casual players. I have a friend who is great at games like Dark Souls, but is still confused about so many things with PSO2.
When WoW started to get bloated, Blizzard streamlined and compacted many of the skills/abilities, etc. SEGA could do that for PSO2.
For example, instead of having Crafting, Gathering, Grinding, Candy Box, etc... they could combine them into a single Upgrade system.

Anyway... back on topic.
I'm sure all of the above also influence why AC sales have been worse.
We've probably already covered all the problems with the AC scratch lineups.

[Lvl200Mag]

I stopped getting premium ever since EP4

The addition of huge character storage has really taken a large bite out of the reason to even keep paying for premium in the first place. My room and Visiphone can easily be kept up whenever needed by seasoned players using cubes and fun, the biggest draw to a lot of people was the storage space. Adding more premium only features to those that pay to play this game would probably end up with a noticeable increase in subscribers.

[SteveCZ]

Holy shid this thread. It's as if I'm buying a new novel.

[NightfallG]

SEGA started out by making a game, then they realized it was far more lucrative to make an anime Second Life. The problem is, they sold all the whales/hardcores on it being a game first.

[Zeroem]

I think all things are already covered as of why.

Like it or not, bad design choice are looming all over the place. And to be fair, the only way for SEGA to fix things.....is either stop catering both hardcore and casual playerbase, focus only on the social aspect or the game portion alone in future updates; or just nuke and scrap the whole system and rebuild the world and universe from scratch (the Reborn tag is already there, so why not do that? *shrug*).

Though, I can't imagine the backlash SEGA would take either case, considering the Phantasy Star name this game donned.
Will SEGA shoot their own foot even more with future decisions regarding PSO2? Only time would tell
*shrugging intensifies*

[Meteor Weapon]

The Reborn tag was a wasted potential.

Now I'm waiting for PSO2 EP5: Restart :wacko:

[Altiea]

Someone's probably said "We ran out of ideas" at least five or so times.

[isCasted]

The Reborn tag was a wasted potential

Absolutely this, in every single aspect. It was incredibly misleading, because EP4 didn't revisit anything besides graphics (and even in this aspect they did less than a bare minimum to make the game feel even like a decent last-gen title, let alone PS4 one).

A proper quest system remake, making Arks Quests worth running and Free Fields worth farming things in would be the easiest (even if time-consuming) way to "reborn" people's interest.

And, as it's been said before, they could merge/remove systems that duplicate each other. Instead, they made more.

[Meteor Weapon]

Can anyone confirm that they removed 50 item slot pack from the AC shop?

[Z-0]

They did. You have to buy them in packs of 10 now.

[TaigaUC]

As for message pack and popin guide, obviously you don't read it because it's all in Japanese and majority of it are not copy-pasteable :-?


I can read Japanese somewhat, even without tools. There's still a lot of kanji I don't know, but in that case I can use OCR tools.

I don't read message packs because I don't like having manual/instructions shoved in my face repeatedly.
Doesn't matter what game does that, it still annoys me. This is one of the reasons why I just learn things myself.
I usually don't even ask anyone else for help. Only recently started doing that more often.
Even if I read an explanation screen, I don't always clearly remember everything in-game after.
There's also the possibility that the explanation isn't worded well.
SEGA has worded things vaguely and poorly many, many times before. They've had to revise their statements so many times.
The above reasons are why I said a practical approach makes more sense.
Tell people stuff while they are messing around with it, not before anything has happened.

And this is all beside the point.
I know Japanese people who don't read the message packs, or forget what's on them.
Japanese friends are the ones who suggested to me that the game should teach people in ways other than message packs, because it's not effective.
I'm sure there's also stuff that is not explained.
Do the message packs tell people to get multiplier skills instead of ATK?


They did. You have to buy them in packs of 10 now.

Really? What the fuck. I was going to buy another 5 pack.

[isCasted]

Message packs don't tell you about anything related to damage variance either. Or what to do with your mag. Or that you can exchange 10-11* weapons for Excubes instead of selling them to NPCs for negligible amounts of meseta. Or what elemental values on weapons actually do. Or importance of affixes...

[Korima]

SEGA started out by making a game, then they realized it was far more lucrative to make an anime Second Life.

Yup, If Sega adds Sex poseballs this game will be a river of money, I wonder if japanese people do Sex RP on their player rooms.

[EvilMag]

Message packs don't tell you about anything related to damage variance either. Or what to do with your mag. Or that you can exchange 10-11* weapons for Excubes instead of selling them to NPCs for negligible amounts of meseta. Or what elemental values on weapons actually do. Or importance of affixes...

Or the fact that the game doesn't teach you to dodge. Instead it just gives you a unit set that pretty much lets you face tank everything in N-VH.

[Qualia]

Or the fact that the game doesn't teach you to dodge. Instead it just gives you a unit set that pretty much lets you face tank everything in N-VH.

I mean not getting hit is kinda common sense regardless if you can take the hit or not.
Unfortunately, a ton of people in this game lack common sense.

[isCasted]

Well, that's not really true for a lot of action RPGs. Even in PSO1 Dark Falz had an attack that you couldn't avoid at all (heck, it OHKO'd FOnewearls on difficulties below VH). The genre evolved from classic turn-based ones, and only nowadays it shapes more into hack&slash.

[lostinseganet]

I've recently read a few posts as well as heard from some friends that Sega apparently mentioned that AC isn't selling the way it used to or as much as before? Does anyone have any source on this, I'm thinking it was mentioned sometime during the last stream maybe?

Assuming it is true: What changes to Sega's policies on AC do you think could be done to entice people to spend money happily again?They need to reconn epsoide 4 this journey to earth is bumming me out. Pets need to take the place of mags, and each mag needs to be customizable just like clothes...I do not like that your mag disappears when you have a pet. Also keep the anime

[Xaeris]

I've been wanting to avoid contributing to the tangent this thread ran off on, but this "the game doesn't teach you well enough" notion is an odd sticking point to me. I'm not sure what some of you are expecting from Sega. It doesn't matter how much you dumb down a game, how explicitly you lay out rotations, or even if you make the tutorials for these mandatory; you can't make people who don't care about playing well play well. Moreover, people who want to play well will play well because the information that will help them do so is freely available to anyone who can use Google.

Those two facts have been repeatedly demonstrated through other games. WoW implemented the dungeon guide, an in game database containing in depth information on bosses' attacks as well as recommended strategies for each role to employ. It's a literal strategy guide at each player's fingertips with no need to download an add on, but the game's still rife with unskilled players that would wipe on LFR if not carried. FFXIV puts down, honest to god, glowing red orange circles of death where attacks will strike, and yet, we still have players eating even the most obvious and generous telegraphs.

Like, the game doesn't teach us to dodge? Is that really something that needs a tutorial prompt? "Avoid damage when you can"?

[TaigaUC]

Well, you're right that people who don't care about playing well won't play better.
But I think there are also a lot of people who have no idea they're not playing well.
I'm sure there are people who want to improve, but have no idea where to start, or don't have time to research and experiment.
There's also the fact that PSO2 punishes you pretty heavily if you make a mistake, so there are probably people afraid to mess around.
If a game is designed in such a way that improving is more clearcut and doesn't punish or require too much time/effort, then more people would probably "improve".
I have some gamer friends who don't like overcomplicated systems, or reliance on menus.
I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't want to deal with stuff like that.

In regards to dodging... I recently started another new character and ran through a bunch of quests on lower difficulties.
I was immediately struck by just how much easier Normal, Hard and Very Hard are.
Ridiculously easy. I took virtually no damage, and everything died super fast.
Then there's suddenly a huge jump from Very Hard to Super Hard.
I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but a game should ramp up its difficulty in a more coherent and consistent manner.
There needs to be some kind of learnable pattern so that people have an idea of what to do, what to aim for, etc.
But PSO2 often contradicts itself. It makes people believe something works a certain way, and then does the opposite.
Why would people feel the need to dodge when they had no need to through the first 50 levels of the game?

Part of my complaints suggested SEGA condense some of the systems that do the same thing but require so much extra research, time, etc.
I don't think it's dumbing down a game to remove or compress all these extra side stats/influences that are barely documented within the game itself, or that nobody uses.
I mean, some elements of PSO2 have lots of variations, but nearly everyone ends up using the same stuff and the same setup anyway.
It feels like they could get rid of all the meaningless stuff to clean the game up.
Otherwise, at the rate they're going, they'll keep adding more and more crap on top, and it'll keep getting more messy.
Look at how many weapons are in the game that absolutely nobody uses.
There are so many potentials that nobody uses, too. Those are just two examples.

I noticed they added that Touou Soul thing to try and get people to use unpopular souls.
Unpopular souls are still selling for such a low price though, because you can use any of those unpopular souls for the same result (I think).

That reminds me of something else. Whenever I affix stuff, I have to go look up the JP swiki to check which souls boost what chances.
I'm assuming everyone else has to do something like that too?
It's pretty annoying that the game doesn't seem to display that info.

[Tenlade]

Like, the game doesn't teach us to dodge? Is that really something that needs a tutorial prompt? "Avoid damage when you can"?

proper use of step and stuff like the stylish rolls for mechs or katana's counter could use some proper explination so new players dont need to trial and error it.

and well, we already require players to do a solo story mission to unlock free field tokyo, I wouldnt mind additional quests only unlocked by doing solo missons to prove you at least understand basic gameplay.

[TaigaUC]

Dodging is common sense IF YOU'VE PLAYED SUCH GAMES BEFORE.
Like I said, PSO2's playerbase mostly consists of casuals or non-gamers.
They don't know what to expect, they don't know what they're supposed to be doing.
I know this because I've been talking to those people. And yes, they are Japanese.
Stop assuming everyone obviously knows how to play games, because they don't.
There are a lot of people in this world, you know. Not everyone shares our knowledge and experience.

Besides, not all games require use of a mechanic, even if it's in the game.
My point is that the first 50 levels of PSO2 make people think there isn't a need for dodging.
Then, suddenly, when you reach SH there's very much a need.
It's like sending new recruits into a real life battlefield without any training.

Similarly, the strategy to beat Loser changes suddenly for XH. He's the only one that changes.
This means there will always be a constant flow of people coming in from SH and using the wrong strategy.
The game should be teaching people how to do something and then sticking to that flow/pattern.

Anyway, I came back to say something I just remembered:
PSO2ES has proper tutorials teaching people to dodge. It's not just a window of text either.
It puts you into battle, tells you how to dodge and then makes you dodge.
That kind of tutorial is much more effective.
It sets a precedent for new players to use as a reference for what's expected of them.
It also teaches people how to use chips, the kinds of chips there are, and how to grind them.
You can't get into the game until you've learned these things, unless of course you choose to skip.
You also don't get punished for grinding in PSO2ES.

Does PSO2 do that? Does PSO2 make people dodge and then grind?
I know they changed the start recently, but I don't know if it includes those things.

[LordKaiser]

I want to see the salt here when April 20 hits.