Are we grinding for the sake of faster grinding?

[nguuuquaaa]

You grind for money, grind for exp, grind for affix fodders, grind for weapons, grind for units, grind for... grinding material..... literally grind for everything.

What to do outside of grinding?

[ZerotakerZX]

Social activity?

[Kilich]

Pretty sure we grind to buy better looking cosmetics.

[Zeroem]

Welcome to MMO in general. The general goal is to grind for items needed to grind faster.
.........And maybe having fun once in a full moon.

[Z-0]

For most that's the point of PSO.

After grinding, it comes down to optimising content that can be optimised (TAs, fixed quests, certain EQs) if you wish, but most simply aren't interested in that and PSO2 doesn't offer many options for that since everything is mostly random.

And of course, since everything is planned to be obsoleted, hardly anyone really grinds for true "endgame goals" (i.e. 8 slot units, rainbow sets of weapons) because it's simply not worth it and things will get outclassed as long as this game lives. No point maxing out gear if it's going to be outclassed. (probably off-topic but I wanted to say it somewhere)

[FantasyHeaven]

There used to be at least a little more point to it. Like Fi/Br was better than Br/Hu and was a different playstyle, but now due to main class bonuses, 13* and other bull shit there's 0 reason to work towards the different playstyle in fi/br because all it offers is less damage for more risk+work. playing anything /hu is like you're on autopilot and you get more damage at the same time.
Another example is elysion which was a completely different playstyle from normal force. Now there is no reason to work towards an elysion build because it does almost negative damage.
They took out the few interesting potentials and class combos there were, so every effective build now is cookie cutter and leaves nothing to work towards but grind grind grind to do 0.1% more damage but still play with that same old boring playstyle and updated weapon texture.

[nguuuquaaa]

I just need an extremely difficult dungeon for a fairly good reward..... *sigh*
Solo XQ is nice and all, but the rewards is worse than normal XQ which costs less passes and has less risks.....

[SteveCZ]

Pashion Star Online 2. ^^;

[JCry]

For most that's the point of PSO.

After grinding, it comes down to optimising content that can be optimised (TAs, fixed quests, certain EQs) if you wish, but most simply aren't interested in that and PSO2 doesn't offer many options for that since everything is mostly random.

And of course, since everything is planned to be obsoleted, hardly anyone really grinds for true "endgame goals" (i.e. 8 slot units, rainbow sets of weapons) because it's simply not worth it and things will get outclassed as long as this game lives. No point maxing out gear if it's going to be outclassed. (probably off-topic but I wanted to say it somewhere)

This about sums it up.

I'm god awful at TAs but I'm highly interested in them. I Watch a lot of TA videos and wish to become a better TAer and such. At the same time I enjoy the cosmetic aspect of the game. What can I say, I'm addicted to grinding.

[Azure Falcon]

Pretty sure we grind to buy better looking cosmetics.
I know I do. Spend meseta on 20 ATK more to kill XH pinatas a split second quicker, or dress up funtime, seems the obvious choice.

[Buckets]

My goal for grinding is pretty much minimizing my time(TAs) and finding the content wall. Yesterday I did XH Dark Arms(Or at least tried too.) Solo. A friend of mine also gave it a try, after seeing how far along I got in it I realized what I was lacking and how to improve myself in the game. So I'm currently working to revise & improve.

[NoobSpectre]

Taking Dead Frontier Player's greatest quotes for the ultimate meaning of Online RPG games. (https://youtu.be/Dks5w70r768?t=431)

That's all gentlemen.

[MidCap]

In regards to this thread, the hopelessness one feels when trying to optimize PSO2 gear in the face of it immediately becoming obsolete is one reason why PSO1's endgame was much better.

In PSO1, the endgame was long (120 levels worth of playing), so there was plenty to do, but the end goal remained static. The rug would not likely be pulled out from under your progress, so it was comforting and motivating at the same time. Also, all areas remained relevant thanks to the Section ID system.

PSO2 fails in all of these regards, which is why it feels hopeless, empty, and meaningless to progress beyond that which requires a mediocre effort.

The game should have been built with a clearly defined endgame and a long road to it. Instead they released a 1/4 finished game with 3 areas and slowly added on over time. It's an economic success, to be sure, but a huge failure from a gameplay standpoint.

Really a shame, because PSO2 has such a good combat system...

[Zorafim]

Really a shame, because PSO2 has such a good combat system...

People seem to forget this. Under all the horrible decisions the development team has made for this game, there's some honest good work put into it. But then the terrible balance hits, and it's all lost.

[nguuuquaaa]

Yeah, PSO2 definitely has good combat/class system, I would've quit a long time ago if not for this.
What I wonder is the non-existence of contents that rewards endgame players. Seriously, there's nothing to do anymore.

[Asuka~]

I just need an extremely difficult dungeon for a fairly good reward..... *sigh*

Yeah :C
Bearing that in mind... Is probably why I picked up Fate/Grand Order recently lol. I don't get much time to play PSO these days either unfortunately. :v

[[Ayumi]]

You grind for money, grind for exp, grind for affix fodders, grind for weapons, grind for units, grind for... grinding material..... literally grind for everything.

What to do outside of grinding?

You grind for money
For items to help with things, for meseta tickets to get more money, for sometimes mag food (when I'm low on photon drops or weapons or furniture), and of course newer costumes and accessories I might like/want (and colour passes). The latter is usually very very rarely as I hate looking like a whore which is majority of the PSO2 clothing.

Grind for exp
This is what kind of got me into RPGs since I was little. I like grinding exp. As long as it's not super tedious.

Grind for affix fodders
This one, I don't do.

Grind for weapons
Either because I want to be stronger or because my current weapon is "okay" in power yet I find it ugly and want a newer/better/less uglier weapon.
Then comes the grinding itself which... goes back to the "Grind For Money" part.

Grind for units
Other than to get them to +10...
This one, I don't do.
At the moment I got the units I like that isn't super tedious to go after.

Grind for... grinding material
This one is a no for me as well.
Grinders and Synthesizers drop like candy. Zeig orders once a week gives me the Lambda Grinders which one a week (per char, but still) isn't really a grindfest.

LEVELING PETS THOUGH... any pets that's the rarity of 6 to 12 isn't really grinding too bad as the eggs drop rather easily (especially if you're on Summoner). 13s though... gtting them to level 120, yeah it's a hassle, but I'm not grinding this either as I just feed pets when I come around eggs. I'm not in a rush as I can play other classes until then.


What to do outside of grinding?
What I do outside of grinding is... have random fun in levels or just listening to idiots talk on block 1.
Or I go and grind exp as I find grinding exp fun.

[Zorua]

Yeah, PSO2 definitely has good combat/class system, I would've quit a long time ago if not for this.
What I wonder is the non-existence of contents that rewards endgame players. Seriously, there's nothing to do anymore.

I really hate how unique PSO2's combat is. Every "action" MMO that I've seen just ends up being WoW with aiming. I haven't been able to play another game without getting fucking bored. Vindictus was the only game I tried with good action combat, but it still managed to suck more than PSO2 at other aspects. Even if I wanted to leave (I kinda do), I'm stuck here.

[AlphaBlob]

There's always the possibility of helping other people out get to end game, and by that I don't mean carrying leechers. Basically teaching those who shows interest in PSO2.

[Neith]

Seems like a lot of people (myself included sometimes) just spam whatever is the newest contest, inevitably get sick of it, stop playing for a while until the next update and repeat the cycle.

If we had meaningful long-term goals it might change but there's no point hunting something that'll be obsolete in a month or two. Might be another reason people pile money into cosmetics...

Still, the grind in PSO2 is nothing compared to some other games. Lineage II uugggghhhhh

[Keilyn]

I spend my time solo-running level 80 SHAQs just because its the only thing that feels fun outside of fashion wars and photoshoots....or even room remodeling.

The game is really straight-forward and to me the highest level of complexity this game has to offer is simply in the Affix-path one takes to raise slots ad get the affixes one wants. Its not like a certain other game I will not mention in this forum where to actually fight and win I have to actually have eight to thirty-players in voice chat servers actually coordinating together to actually win some crazy content..

its PSO, where almost everything can be soloed...

Though people grind in this game to get the three major currencies (Stones, Excubes, Meseta) in this game, and while I don't consider this at all to be MMO, I prefer CORPG, but even so...if you want to have fun outside of just running the maps, one has to actually make the events themselves in their teams which are pretty much SOCIAL CLUBS.

[the_importer_]

Here's a crazy idea, why not play what the game has to offer. Cap all of your classes

and try to get one of these next to every quest in every difficulty and every COs: http://i65.tinypic.com/b4ephd.png

[[Ayumi]]

Here's a crazy idea, why not play what the game has to offer. Cap all of your classes

and try to get one of these next to every quest in every difficulty and every COs: http://i65.tinypic.com/b4ephd.png

That's what I do on my main.

[Ordy]

Still, the grind in PSO2 is nothing compared to some other games. Lineage II uugggghhhhh

> Spend the night leveling for 6 hours
> +0.05% /o/~~yay
> PK'ed
> -2.00%

fun time.^^;

[SilkaN]

You are obviously grinding to make next month's grinding easier, since your PAs now do 50 more damage per hit.

[Zysets]

There's always the possibility of helping other people out get to end game, and by that I don't mean carrying leechers. Basically teaching those who shows interest in PSO2.

I had two friends get into the game recently, and that's what I've been doing. It definitely brings more life into the game, because not only do you have a reason to play (helping someone out), you also feel all the excitement of hitting certain milestones again, but through the other person.

I was so genuinely excited for one of my friends when they hit 70, it's worth it to at least try to help new players.

[Keilyn]

PSO2 was the first Online Game I played where in order to compete with others my schedule had to conform to that of the game to get the things needed. The game starts out theme-park based as players unlock the content and complete the COs at content level and also advance through the difficulty. However, the game becomes a sandbox game by endgame, with a pretty bleak outlook.

Truth is that I recently reawakened to PvP and true MMORPGs out there...the good ones... and found myself after returning to Small and Large Scale PvP that good or bad, that is where my heart lies. It lies in commanding groups, both large and small vs what seems the seemingly impossible at times. Sitting down with other players I am facing against and knowing we all have the same complaints, the same problems....and our own subculture to defend in PvP based gaming.

The idea that I can get Ganked out of a Spawnzone, but I can return the favor by turning cannons 180 degrees and Blasting everything to pieces as they leave their zones. Just to get a message from the player from the other player by whisper chat saying "You asshole!!! at least we are even" and replying "Im surprised they didnt patch this thing yet... how was hell?" ....has always been priceless...

Just to find that 10 minutes later we kill each other in the middle of the zone and we both are like "if we are both dead, does this mean our subcommanders are doing their best?" and just laugh at the horrible inefficiency. :) in fact at times we would go to each other's Teamspeak or Mumble to just chat and just stare in awe at the BS. :)

Six hours later....and 19 sieges I defended against, our victorious few insulted the enemy server, and managed to win their praise in forumboards, while the enemy commander who was in my Teamspeak server kept on giving me the play by play of people who were doing stupid shit on his side... and im like "FUCK, thanks for at least staying on... I probably would have gone 2 hours into it if I was bored as a fuck."

There is just something crazy about PvP as a subculture that I've always loved.....

I thought by staying in PvE-only games I wouldn't have to deal with players who act as though they were entitled to crap, and I found that I dealt with more saturation of people throwing youtube videos of the same thing..... Time Attackers and Super Powerful players justifying how strong they are from destroying the weak and beating a map faster than everyone else. In my opinion I guess those are just people glorifying how great they are that they can't cut it in a real game against other human players.

Its true that some of us have SCREAMED at our MONITORS and lost our minds in PvP when things go bad for us on those BAD days where we seem to get our ass kicked literally everywhere... but for the good days where we manage to do the near-impossible, there is just nothing better when the smoke clears and we see our characters are alive and we survived through all the hell from each playing our part. :)

Given the choice to deal with the GRIND that PSO2 has at ENDGAME (while the game is awesome in climbing from 1 to 69), or playing a game that has PvP on all levels in many forms.... and far greater sandbox elements or not...under multiple games where a change of scenery or environment is better....... I rather forget about the lousy pussification of what SEGA calls an Endgame and simply play PSO2 as a secondary or tertiary game.

[Macman]

If we had meaningful long-term goals it might change but there's no point hunting something that'll be obsolete in a month or two. Might be another reason people pile money into cosmetics...
I don't get it. The Austere series has been best-of-the-best for nearly half a year now and people are still complaining about this.

Are you all going to cower in your fear of having a new goal to achieve until Eternal Psycho Drives are hovering just out of your reach?

[Z-0]

Proper endgame goals take longer than half a year, and something being the best for 6 months is not a long time in the grand scheme of things.

Furthermore with the horrible time-gating of Austere, you can't even get all the Austeres you might want before it finally gets outclassed. Without missing a single PD, it can take you like 8 weeks just to get the 200 Cailgula for 1 Austere weapon, and grinding for badges for Caligula takes absolutely forever.

Things might last a while now, but they take far too long to get unless you literally give up your life to the game. It's still a huge issue.

I'd like to get full sets of things, upgrade them to their absolute max, but getting the meseta and stones for that sort of thing would probably take years, not months, so your progress towards those sorts of goals would get ripped out under your feet after a while. I don't like the goalposts changing, I'd actually rather PSO2 stop updating. It would be more fun then.

At first I thought the constant updates on a video game were a good thing, but now I'm not so sure. I'd rather be given a complete, full game that lasts for thousands of hours (i.e. PSO1), and the updates are just extra content that doesn't change the goalposts and just adds simple conveniences and small improvements, rather than power creep.

[Macman]

8 months? I got my first austere after 3 weeks. Granted that was when PD was new and scheduled a ton and I didn't miss any. You were more timegated by Neros than Calligulas back then...

Multi-shippers were getting theirs first within the first week.

[Z-0]

Oops, I meant 8 weeks, which is still 2 months and still far too long. You can't expect people to be happy with one Austere, can you? That's not the point of the item hunt.

Only the first Austere is quick because of titles, and you shouldn't have to multi-ship to feel like you're getting somewhere in a relatively decent amount of time.

[TaigaUC]

I don't really care about endgame, I just want something new and fun to do.
It really pisses me off because game modes are some of the easiest things they could add.

Yes, I'd rather have a full game than moving goalposts for powercreeping.
I'm pretty certain I have enough Nero and Caligula stones to get a ton of Austeres. I just can't be bothered doing Extreme Quest to get those stones.
But according to damage meters, the only people who can beat me in damage are the ones who have 6-7+ slot equip with 150 attack on everything, and 60 element 13 stars.
And it's usually not by much.
So it just feels like... why should I bother wasting so much time for such a minor upgrade, just to beat the same old content slightly faster?

[Ezodagrom]

At first I thought the constant updates on a video game were a good thing, but now I'm not so sure. I'd rather be given a complete, full game that lasts for thousands of hours (i.e. PSO1), and the updates are just extra content that doesn't change the goalposts and just adds simple conveniences and small improvements, rather than power creep.
Constant updares on a video game are a good thing, when handled by a competent studio.
In the case of PSO2, with the way things are going, I would have rather gotten yearly fully packed proper expansion packs with smaller bits of content released throughout the year (tweaks to the game and the usual AC scratches and such) than what we're getting now.

It's sad though, they could do so much more with the existing content, with the exiting areas, it's just so much wasted potential, all we get is mindless grinding quests, EQs and story. PSO1 was able to do more with less.

[vbetts]

Nope, I'm grinding so my 50 Dark Vibras Bow can do some damage against Darkers.

[Korima]

Constant updares on a video game are a good thing, when handled by a competent studio.
In the case of PSO2, with the way things are going, I would have rather gotten yearly fully packed proper expansion packs with smaller bits of content released throughout the year (tweaks to the game and the usual AC scratches and such) than what we're getting now.

It's sad though, they could do so much more with the existing content, with the exiting areas, it's just so much wasted potential, all we get is mindless grinding quests, EQs and story. PSO1 was able to do more with less.


I wonder how you play this game in the early years, because I arrived in January and after a month I was bored of it.

[Ce'Nedra]

I wonder how you play this game in the early years, because I arrived in January and after a month I was bored of it.

Because back then the game was new and fresh, less boring same over grind and such and you actually needed to learn how to play the game in order to stand a chance. Nowdays you just pick your fre cube-pinata-EQ 10/11/12* and roflstomp everything. You also can cap yourself in super low time without any effort. Back in the day we needed 90/90/90 caps to break the first level caps which is 10/10/10 now and we only had acces to Forest/Caves/Desert etc.

Stuff like that made the game fun to play and you didn't get to the end game in 1 week of playing. The game was serious way more fun and less EQ based and crap then it is now, not to mention BS restrictiong that need prem or scheduled only content.

[Korima]

Because back then the game was new and fresh, less boring same over grind and such and you actually needed to learn how to play the game in order to stand a chance. Nowdays you just pick your fre cube-pinata-EQ 10/11/12* and roflstomp everything. You also can cap yourself in super low time without any effort. Back in the day we needed 90/90/90 caps to break the first level caps which is 10/10/10 now and we only had acces to Forest/Caves/Desert etc.

Stuff like that made the game fun to play and you didn't get to the end game in 1 week of playing. The game was serious way more fun and less EQ based and crap then it is now, not to mention BS restrictiong that need prem or scheduled only content.

Oh I see, so I arrived at the worst time.

[MidCap]

At first I thought the constant updates on a video game were a good thing, but now I'm not so sure. I'd rather be given a complete, full game that lasts for thousands of hours (i.e. PSO1), and the updates are just extra content that doesn't change the goalposts and just adds simple conveniences and small improvements, rather than power creep.

This.

@Macman: That's basically a huge "fuck you" to anyone with a job, or anyone who doesn't pay money to multi-ship, which is basically sanctioned meta-gaming / cheating.

I think that Z-0 is asserting that these requirements cannot be fulfilled by a reasonable person in a reasonable amount of time before something better comes along, so the average gamer sees this and says, "Why even try?"

PSO1's endgame, in all its simplicity, is so much better and more engaging than PSO2's.

The fact that PSO1 found ways to keep all of the areas relevant (for at least some Section IDs), was brilliant. It's nice to still have a reason to SEE those areas once in awhile.

[Loveless62]

If you are really that unhappy with PSO2, maybe you should just try another game. There is plenty of stuff out there. The appeal of any given game is subjective by nature, and subjective tastes very wildly, so there is no way any one game is going to satisfy everyone completely. You can talk about "wasted potential" but PSO2 has what it has, and if that is not enough for you, move on.

I feel PSO2 is in a good place for me right now. It has just the right amount of commitment level. I have played games that have demanded more (WoW), and I got burned out. Maybe there is a little more busywork to keep up with due to the recent changes, but I am managing that. I still have goals that I am working toward, but I feel I have made a lot of progress overall. I feel that PSO2 rewards me for the work I do, and I like games like that.

As for PSO1, maybe some people enjoyed the same running stuff over and over again to get a Heaven Punisher with a 1/100000 drop rate, but that really didn't appeal to me. I couldn't even manage the 1/10000 drop rate of the Cursed-J Sword, which was my goal when I quit. I also never got a character to the level 200 cap. I felt my level 150 HUNewearal was already strong enough to beat everything, and any extra power wasn't making anything faster with that casual jog through all of the maps.

Maybe some people are looking for the ultimate game that they can live in forever. My younger self looked for that. I no longer believe it exists. Have fun with PSO2 for as long as it is fun, and then jump out. Sample many games , enjoy what they have to offer, and then move on. "Seize the day" as they say. You don't live forever, so don't waste your time on entertainment that you no longer enjoy.

[Z-0]

Almost everyone in this thread has quit PSO2 (myself included). We're just posting our thoughts and wished PSO2 was better.

[nguuuquaaa]

Ugh, I haven't quit yet, but I'm thinking of doing so. At this point there's nothing to do except self-challenge.

Maybe I should be back to Cosmic League. It's heavily pay2win, but at least it's not do-nothing-still-win like current PSO2.

[Keilyn]

I am currently playing Black Desert Online, which in the US/EU is actually B2P ($30) as well as some WvW fun in GW2. Black Desert Online is actually a Sandbox game, not a gear grinding game unless you truly want to be a top player in PvP.

I am still learning the game.

However, what takes longer to grind/find in a game by your own opinion in today's standards?

A single top tier weapon in an MMO grinded/enchanted to max?

or

A rainbow set of 13* weapons at 10360?

Amazingly enough I was given two Seven-Day Access Guest Passes when I bought BDO. :) So im happy. ^_^

[Macman]

This.

@Macman: That's basically a huge "fuck you" to anyone with a job, or anyone who doesn't pay money to multi-ship, which is basically sanctioned meta-gaming / cheating.


Yeah, that's fair. My team leader has problems maxing his austere talis because all the PDs now happen whenever he's sleeping.

There's still a pretty large gap to fill between Austere and the next best stuff (usually 2nd best is still invade going by raw stats) so it might still be a good while before it gets surpassed.

[Shinmarizu]

However, what takes longer to grind/find in a game by your own opinion in today's standards?

A single top tier weapon in an MMO grinded/enchanted to max?

or

A rainbow set of 13* weapons at 10360?

The answer to that will vary from game to game, but regardless it is in the game's design to encourage you to chase that ideal, and wall it off with as many time-gated and probability-gated systems as possible.

[Tenlade]

this game would be perfectly fine and have plenty of content if

a: we werent at the same level cap for over a year
b: all the good quests werent limited to a half hour at specific times
c: weren't balanced around needing 12 people.

If players could do free tokyo/ult lilipa /naberious solo and still make decent progress to getting the 13*s from them, it would be a whole other story. As it stands it takes forever solo and if you can solo anga yourself, you certainly don't need those ult 13*s anyway.

[Gama]

i honestly upgrade my gear into decent gear, and when my decent gear gets outdated i get the current decent gear.

i honestly do not have time for it. so i just enjoy the game, chat with people, have a few lols, meet new people, dress up allot, play some more.

i honestly play this game after a work day and my brain is pretty mushy from tirednessness.

i play like 2 hours a day max, and pso2 allows me to only play that much and still have somewhat decent gear.

i'm not a hardcore super player, but i know what i'm doing most of the time.

grinding the same thing for hours kills me, ill just do ramdom stuff.

edit----------

see how tired i am, how many times i said honestly there, christ.

[cheapgunner]

If players could do free tokyo/ult lilipa /naberious solo and still make decent progress to getting the 13*s from them, it would be a whole other story. As it stands it takes forever solo and if you can solo anga yourself, you certainly don't need those ult 13*s anyway.

This is a big thing for me. Finding an UQ group isn't hard but fnding one on that's gonna do those runs consistently is. I want to really farm UQs for drops but it's dumb to try and get a group together when most ppl are just meseta farming and/or sitting around waiting for the next EQ to pop up. Not to mention the rewards for doing those kind of runs aren't high enough.

UQ stones need to be boss drops also, and 2 instead of 1 when you clear. Element grinding also needs to be less tedious. Almost want to just stick with 12*s seing how near impossible it seems for me to get another dark element gal rod and austere rod to max element the ones I have...

The carrot sticks for 13* weps has gotten to the point that I usually mill about on youtube and other games 'cuz putting in months trying to get some of these 13* weps like a fully maxxed element nemsis rod/tails means soloig most of the time and that's kinda unlikely for me to do atm.

Then there's the fact that in 2-3+ months, a new 13* rod will come out and have on par stats with the ones we have and possibly better access too.. ._.

[Selphea]

It's a 100% instanced PvE action game, there's nothing to do but grind hard enough to make a rapper blush!

Rings are just silly though. I can't see myself mining tomatoes past +11.

[Shinmarizu]

This game is doable with good 11* and 12* weapons, and thanks to the crafting system, Red weapons along with 9* unit sets. Sega has all these 13* weapons everywhere to give you something to chase - they may or may not be hard to obtain; but they are time-consuming.

That's the point: Sega wants people actively on their servers. The fact that we all are chasing the top tier gear means Sega's system is working.

Embrace the grind.

[Keilyn]

This game is the way it is because its F2P. The game was built around the idea of getting people to spend money on its cash shop, otherwise there would be no funding for the game as no company would keep a game on for years enduring losses each quarter.

Here is what I would do if I had control of this game (and make the entire world PISSED OFF at me)... ^_^ (so pray that I don't control the game).


1) I would make the game B2P and I would change the following things:

~Eliminate all Room and Player Shop cards (all players would have access to both)
~Eliminate Premium Set altogether since its B2P
~Eliminate all Unit and Weapon Exchange Cards
~Eliminate All Stones (more on this later)

2) Attributes

~Eliminate S-ATK, R-ATK, T-ATK, Bring back ATP
~Eliminate S-DFP, R-DFP, T-DFP, Bring back DFP
~Bring back MST (mental strength)
~Dexterity Function will be the Function it had in PSO1
~PP would be gained on Level up, Recovery Rate would be in Armor/Weapons/Skills.
~Bring back Evasion

3) Combat
~Bring Back Normal Attack, Heavy Attack, and Special Attack
~Bring Back Combo Attacks
~No more subclasses, Level Cap Max would be 100
~Many more attacks involving positioning and movement instead of mashing a PA button to do the work for you because lets face it... PSO2 is an endless stream of PAs
~Evasion Combos, Defensive Combos, Offensive Combos.

I always wanted a dancer-like support class that could just do a bunch of attacks and the after effect of each combo would be either a buff, a debuff, or a minor area heal, As well as helping members out...

Would be so nice if something like
Guard(Block Attack while a player is next to you) + Evasion + Direction + Skill Tree support Skill = Grab Player next to you and Mirage Escape in the direction pushed.. existed ;)

4) Skill Trees

Three Skill Trees will exist.

General: In this tree we put our stances and skills that can benefit all classes. Instead of having + attributes, starting players will have a uniform attribute gain for each level. For each point put into an attribute, a player will get that much per level up. Abilities that benefits classes on general levels would go here too...including all stances...

Lets say the start attributes were

HP +3
PP +1
ATP+5
Dex+5
DFP+3
MST+3
Eva+ 3
etc

Increasing stats in the General Tree along with Racial Tree will add these as attribute accumulation at level up. Lets say I had Five points in ATP, the it would mean that each level up I would gain +10 ATP as an example.

Profession Tree: These are the trees that have us delve deep into the three major Phantasy Star profession categories, which are Hunter, Ranger, and Force. We would have one pool of points that go into all three. If we want to truly delve deep into one class to be super powerful but limited in its forms, we would go into one tree, but if we want flexibility and versatility, we would put points into the other two areas to make us more unique.

Racial Tree: This would be a small tree where we could pick three to four racial traits out of about 10 or 20 to match our playstyle.

5) Tokens (Trade in Currencies)

~Eliminate all Tech Frags, Range Frags, Strike Frags, and replace them all with one item, PA Frags
~PA frags are earned by completing mission and as drops against bosses, and boosted enemies. They are uncommon to rare and are used on customizing PAs and part of a weapon ingredient in Grinding/Crafting
~All Stones are Gone.
~Weapon Trade-ins are now handled through using three items, Excubes for trading in, along with Crystals which are used to pick the Weapon Element we want as well as how high the weapon element would go to, as well as a third item, be it a prerequisite weapon or area drop which is transformed into the weapon.
~Eliminate Lambda Grinders, Grinders would be Universal, and to increase their value the drop would be uncommon, but the amount of grinders needed to grind a weapon would be less.

6) Weapons

~All Weapons are equipped based on attribute restrictions/class restrictions.
~Weapons can be grinded to +10, but one uses grinders and materials. No failure rate exists, however materials are gathered from desynthing weapons and finding them on the field.
~Grinding Weapons will only increase max stats by +50%.
~Maximum Elemental Power will be 25%
~Grinding Weapons unlock Potential Level and Slot Count
~At +7 a special ability (for special attack) will be unlocked and it gains its max power at +10
~Once a weapon is at +10, the weapon WILL STAY at +10 upon choosing potentials. The player will have to choose up to Five Levels through Crystals, PA Frags, and perhaps Photon Spheres, up to four potentials. Two can be attack potentials increasing damage, One can be a defensive potential, and one can be a recovery potential if need be. The system won't allow four attack or four defensive potentials to stacks.
~Crafting will be used to Expand or Extend. Expansion deals with Affixing (which would be handled differently as the Affixes would change), Extend would change the parameters of the weapon such as sacrificing one thing in exchange for something else...which that is extension is all about in the real world.

Example

Lets say I wanted a Psychodrive (I am using this example because I loved this weapon in PSU).

I grind the weapon to +10 using materials from Desynthed weapons and running the maps and events...but without having to grind so much like what happens...

The weapon at +10 has a hidden power (im making it up) that weapon power increases as long as I charge techs in short range to enemies (like Gi Techs), so now the weapon has a characteristic that its more for short range. I then can choose up to five levels of potentials from any the class can use...so I decide that I really want to slay DragonKin and their bosses as it would be a Dark Element Weapon, and so I get three levels of Dragonkin, 1 Level of Boss Slaying Potential, and Finally 1 level of a potential to help me recover PP while I am Charging a Tech.

I decide to expand the weapon to affix it with stuff to increase raw damage and help with recovery (as affixes would be different too), maybe even an Affix to make it less likely to be interrupted during a charging of a tech.

I would Extend the weapon and say "I don't mind sacrificing a stage of power in order to give me better charge times." or I might say "I am that good, so I don't mind extra power in favor of attacks costing more PP"

There, I have a good weapon that is more unique to what I want to do...

7) Armors

Once again we would have the PSO1 scheme of Frames, Barriers, and Armors to show the type of damage that they protect against and resistances would be more important. The armors would be more level based on equipment, but crafting them would change parameters for those who want something earlier.

8) Lobbies and Block System

~The Block System will go Bye Bye.
~There will be a Channel System for each server.
~When EQs are launched the system will group anyone in any channel that is on the same Lobby regardless of Channel.

Example, if I am in Channel 2 because Channel 1 is full, and I launch an EQ, since it is instanced, I can be grouped with the same party in the EQ.

~Each World will have its own Lobbies and access to its own map. This is similar to PSU EXCEPT that there arent 1000000x Lobbies on each planet to confuse everyone. Its just one Central Lobby per planet along with its missions as well as the Arks Ship.

9) Party System
~max of 4 players per party
~A party leader can become the MPA leader and show micro-HUD bars for each party member outside the party, and help recruit party members for MPAs. Example...

I make a party of three and want to start an MPA. I select Party size and choose MPA and I see micro-bars of empty slots for the other two parties. I can recruit for three parties. The first person recruited to an empty party becomes party leader.

~In EQ MPAs, the system will group everyone into parties automatically. This will ensure that 12 people in an MPA will always be in a party of four.
~Players can select whether they want this grouping or not OUTSIDE of the EQ in non-event maps.
~Player has the option to turn on Blue, Red, Gold, and Green Flash. If a friendly player flashes that color

~Red - Low health
~Green - Low PP
~Blue - Charging Attack
~Gold - Charging Photon Blast

(This is to help support players and party members see what each player is doing. If for example I am standing still and players have the BLUE Flash on, they will see that the reason I am not moving is because I am charging an attack against a boss signaling that I need protection. Same with Gold, If Flashing Gold, it means that everyone should be beginning to charge Photon Blasts at the same time for their bonuses...) Red is obvious for support characters, while green is obvious for when the rest of the party needs to know that you might go through some downtime or be vulnerable.

10) Team System
~Max Team Size would be 50
~Teams will have stages and Team-Based Missions which progressively get harder as part of a team story to get through.
~Last Login Date will exist
~Player-Made ranks outside of Team Leader and Manager can be made by players.
~Team-Prunning can exist like (if player with rank X does not log in 20 days= kicked)

11) Mags and PBs

I would have players level their mags and evolve their mags. However, I would make the Photon Blasts level in stages to improve their power and add a little bit more tailoring. The four basic triggers would exist as well of "Low Health, At Boss, PB Full, and Mission Start" aside from standard battle operation.

I would bring back the PSO-1 ability of launching PBs in certain order to stack and amplify power.

12) Drop Rates

~No more Rare Drop Boosters of any kind. Instead I rather raise the drop rate of just about everything rare by a bit and spread the drops out more evenly among the game while rotating Rares in and out depending on seasonal events.

~Posted Drop Rates (I rather know that my chances are to see a drop)


13) Gameflow

A race is selected that tells the player of attribute changes. A player chooses a "mode" in the race that they pick that suits their playstyle. They create their character and go. They get five skill points to start for each tree and they put them into both trees. Quests unlock the Racial Skills. So for me, I decide to play Newman and I want a more Hunewearl, so I put a skill point in what is called "Limit 1" which allows me to raise my techs up to level 5, along with Force-Initiate, which allows me to Equip a Rod, a Talis, and a Wand. I also put a point in Hunter-Initiate to allow me to equip a Sword, Wired Lance, and a knuckle. I would put some points on ATP, MST, EVP (to feel more like a HUnewearl) which changes the way t he newman grows...

The character will have access to all PAs in their game (to avoid dealing with picking up disk after disk), but some will be unlocked by quests (mega techs and PAs), the maximum level would be 10, however, later on specialization would allow PAs to reach level 12 (a true overlimit break which occurs in some games)

Players would run and get drop items that are more legitimate, less garbage and would actually have to play together.

Cosmetics/Clothing
-----------------------------
~I like what is done now, but I would like also being able to dress from top to bottom. The problem is not the system, but the expense at getting items. If the game is B2P, I would actually make a separate window that allows players to choose any of the costumes and styles and work with their characters that they have unlocked to save space. Players would have more options to unlock costumes through seasonal quests and special quests, etc... and even have some be clear rewards, as well as costume exchange vendor.

Cash Shop
-------------------------------
~Items in here would be cosmetic, but the player will be allowed to choose the item. They would cost more but the choice is up to the player. Cost would vary on item.


Finally, why even write something like this?

PSO2 is supposed to be more of a dungeon-crawler game, but it isnt really. We kill things in 1 - 2 hits, we smash bosses to pieces and we can skip everything and head to the exit. We will just get low clear rank if we do that. Real Dungeon Crawlers have dungeons that we have to solve puzzles, avoid traps and actually get to the lowest or highest level and smash the bosses. The Legend of Zelda in the Temples has more Dungeon Crawler Elements.....

I remember running through hallways that had mines on them in PSO1 by moving through them while in the menu screen to not take any damage. PSO2 has traps in the machine areas but not much anywhere else....

PSO1 was great because it started as B2P and became P2P. The game just got better with time and then it aged and died.
PSO2 added dynamic events, and jumping, but the game started as an F2P which made the model of how can the game be set up to get players to spend their money on it. PSO1 was the first ACtion based RPG to ever hit a console and so SEGA wanted to make a simple but GOOD game and it was a high-hit game that people just loved..

Grinding
---------------
If there is going to be a grind, the grind should not be WAITING FOR EQs, and that alone is what keeps me away from this game. Nor should a grind be that on PREMIUM one finds all good blocks FULL (including reserved premium space) forcing me to grind in the block select screen to get into a good block during an EQ. A grind should not be that I have to park my ass an hour before an EQ in a block....

If I am going to grind something, I should have ACCESS to what I am going to grind and when I am going to grind it.....

That is the DIFFERENCE between PSO2 and other games...
I HAVE ACCESS in virtually every other game on WHEN I can grind and WHAT I will grind...

PSO2 is "You need to GRIND EQs" which means we have to WAIT FOR THEM and POSITION ourselves for it, and we SPEND MORE TIME DOING THAT than actually RUNNING THE EQ ITSELF and excubing all we get afterwards.....

Like I said in a previous thread where some people thought I was attacking the people here... "You all deserve much more than being a Premium Subscriber being forced to wait an hour to get into capped blocks to run an EQ in a Japanese video game in which most of us have to proxy to get into, only after waiting till 4AM to actually get into a GOOD EQ"

^_^

Another one of my super long posts.....^^ but hey, its what I am known for and I wont change. ^_^

[Lvl200Mag]

snip snip

You must be a joy in rp...:-P

[SteveCZ]

...

Looking forward for your new game. :-o

[wefwq]

Are we grinding for the sake of faster grinding?I found it to be ironic since SEGA themself start applying run limit into few important quests.

I personally enjoy character customizations alot, will it be appearance-related or stat-related.
Those require money, so i have no chance but "play" the game, it all to keep the cycle going.

And it's not like there's much stuff to do outside of doing those things though.
Most stuff that seemed to be very simple require tons of grind.
3 years ago, i thought that grinding over few days or week for extra 20 ATK are stupid, but i'm end up doing it nowadays :-?

[FANSean]

#MakePSO2GreatAgain

I'm going to be completely honest with you here and suggest you go to a PSOBB Private Server because it looks like half of what you suggested amounted to making the game a remake of PSOBB at its core with some different functions and honestly, I'm going to admit right here that I started glazing over the post from the point I saw you suggesting that evasion (and most likely, accuracy) be brought back because I started to see red at that point.

I'm going to speak as someone who only played PSOBB for the first time this year because people I knew decided to jump onto Ephinea, the game seems painfully dated and the gameplay mechanics are absolutely infuriating to me. I'm thoroughly convinced that at least half the reason people like the game so much is out of pure nostalgia and bringing PSO2, mechanically, as close to it as you seem to want to would drive me to quit so fast peoples heads would spin. I would honestly rather see the game come down to the point where they're selling sex Lobby Actions than see PSO2 become PSOBB The Revengeance.

[Z-0]

I think people who want to see PSO2 more like PSOBB don't necessarily want the game to be mechanically like it, but designed like it. Hardly anyone has issues with PSO2's gameplay system, but PSOBB was a much better designed game where you jumped into one of the many quests and progressed towards something by just playing the game, instead of having to play very specific content to even have a chance at getting what you want (since the stuff you want probably ain't tradeable and comes from one source), which are usually just time-gated quests so you can't even play on your own schedule if your goal is to grind out for that ideal.

The game was also much better balanced (gear-wise), as you actually had gear progression and at endgame, there were like 15-20+ useful items for each class, instead of there just being one best because every weapon is just how much damage it can pump out, and it's not like you have any reason to get that damage, either. This also meant the grind was not so monotonous and linear, you had many items to hunt in many different places, and this was the same for every class so there was always something nice you could find while just playing random stuff, and since trading was not restrictive in that game, everything felt worth playing for the most part.

PSO2 being "1 weapon is the best" and locking them behind time-gated quests and giving players one thing to possibly run (but usually don't) outside of EQs is honestly an awful system and I stopped playing recently because of it, because I got tired of having to conform my schedule to the game if I wanted that best item.

Additionally, I started PSO long past its prime (sometime in 2010 I believe), so I'm not really coming at the game from a place of nostalgia as it wasn't a game of my childhood or the best thing around at the time, either. Apart from perhaps Infinity, I'd say PSOBB is probably the best designed game in the series and PSO2 is currently not exactly following up too well.

[Great Pan]

No PSO1 throwback please... Just no.