Emergency Maintenance

[EvilMag]

I wonder if it has something to do with returner II showing up in the unit shop...

[KazukiQZ]

Unit shop wat?

But yea, this emergency maintenance really came out of nowhere, imo.

[Xaeris]

I hadn't heard about Returner II showing up in the NPC shop. If that's true, that's hilarious.

[Z-0]

Yep, Returner 2 was showing up as 1 or 2 slot in the NPC Unit Shop. Needless to say thousands of them have been bought.

[spoiler-box]http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1461214278522.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[TaigaUC]

Never change, SEGA.

[Anduril]

Well, that explains why I just disconnected. *sigh*

[nevershootme]

Says "重篤な不具合が確認されたため" (For serious bug has been confirmed - Google Translate).

Wish I knew about the returner thing :(

[sparab]

List to fix

>ReturnerII
>Smart inner
>Collect file
>JA effect

[Zyrusticae]

Welp, that figures.

Guess I'll have to continue my testing and troubleshooting tomorrow...

[the_importer_]

Why do I keep playing this game?

[Xaeris]

No wonder they brought down the server cloak and dagger style then. Wonder what they'll do with the Returner IIs already in existence.

[nevershootme]

So I guess the Returner II shop bug was abused just to easily get Returner V?

[doomdragon83]

This "bug" made the unit shop a bit more relevant. Not sure what the point for the weapon, unit, clothes shop to continue existing, you get your gear on the field or through player shop, paying 2k for junk that isn't useful at all is dumb.

[NeapolitanIceCream]

Returner II's could be removed with a refund as some games do when they screw up. I wonder what's changing about the collection file though.

[doomdragon83]

Wonder what they'll do with the Returner IIs already in existence.
Ban everyone who has them? I wouldn't put it past Sega.

Returner II's could be removed with a refund as some games do when they screw up.
lol, good one.

[sparab]

Not sure what the point for the weapon, unit, clothes shop to continue existing

In case a summoner losts his last tact

[Shinmarizu]

Can Sega actually do anything? It's not like the ToS was violated, was it?

[doomdragon83]

In case a summoner losts his last tact
Doesn't explain the last 3.5 or so years prior to Summoner. Hell you can put it in the item shop instead, it's just the tact after all

[Xaeris]

Personally, I take a dim view on players who take gratuitous advantage of an obvious error and plead ignorance when reckoning time rolls around, but banning everyone who took advantage of this isn't a practical course of action for Sega. The last thing you want when you're introducing your game to a new market (PS4 users) is a bunch of veteran players smearing you. If they do anything at all, they'll probably just settle for deleting units (if they even have a mechanism for that) and waving their fingers with a generalized statement.

[yoshiblue]

Would imagine they could make the shops somewhat relevant by having them cycle items every week or so.
Weapon Shop: ?* Weapon with affixes
Unit Shop: ?* Unit with affixes(Would be an interesting to get Shironia Units)
Costume Shot: A revived costume
Item shop: A revived accessory. (Good luck getting what you want though~)

[Meteor Weapon]

Damn should have noticed and bought them earler to make millions <:3

[Lyrise]

Returner II's could be removed with a refund as some games do when they screw up. I wonder what's changing about the collection file though.

Some of the quests aren't spitting out boost percentages at all for certain weapons even when it meets the requirements. (Bow especially, I ran into 3 different quests where my other 2 files were gaining percentages but not the file for bow.)

[Meteor Weapon]

How long is the emergency maintainence anyway?

[arokidaaron]

inb4 rollback.

[sparab]

There were hundreds of players raiding unit shops when the announcer started. Average tunnel time was 30-60 seconds and NPC won't appear for another minute.

Do whatever you want sega but please just spare our smart inner

[Shadowth117]

How long is the emergency maintainence anyway?

Currently there's nothing listed, but probably a few hours. I'm curious how they'll handle this if it's about returner II though. I'll regret not buying a bunch if they do nothing about what people have bought already.

Edit: Also if it ends up being the inner wear that they cared about and they leave the returner stuff alone, I'm going to laugh pretty hard.

[wefwq]

Just get back to my house, taking quick bath and looking forward to play some space barbie... :(

[kurokyosuke]

So they're removing the Smart Inner? Boo. :(

[KazukiQZ]

What is Smart Inner? The new free default innerwear?

[doomdragon83]

Personally, I take a dim view on players who take gratuitous advantage of an obvious error and plead ignorance when reckoning time rolls around
The problem I have with this viewpoint is that it places the responsibility onto the players and not Sega. People playing the game shouldn't be punished at all for Sega fucking up; especially after the extended maintenance was extended further again.


Edit: Also if it ends up being the inner wear that they cared about and they leave the returner stuff alone, I'm going to laugh pretty hard.
Damn, I should have took some pics, oh well.

[Zyrusticae]

If they do anything at all, they'll probably just settle for deleting units (if they even have a mechanism for that) and waving their fingers with a generalized statement.
That's easy. Do a query on the database for absolutely every single unit with the same ID and the same two affixes in people's storage (restricted in time to after last maintenance). Bam, problem solved.

Granted, their database is probably fuckhuge and that single operation would take a few hours. But it's a pretty easy problem to solve, either way.

Now, those guys who already started making Returner Vs out of those? Not much they can do about that, tbh. That's something they'd have to tackle on a case-by-case basis.

[Touka]

In before they remove Smart Inner but put it in a future scratch,sasuga Shillga.

[LordKaiser]

I never found out... :( I should had made a returner III unit...

[sparab]

What is Smart Inner? The new free default innerwear?

http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up184474.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[S]Conspiracy: this inner was intended to be an AC item but sega made it default by mistake

[Qualia]

I should had made a returner V unit...

ftfy :wacko:

[doomdragon83]

In before they remove Smart Inner but put it in a future scratch,sasuga Shillga.
along with a remove Base wear option, of course.

[Qualia]

along with a remove Base wear option, of course.

Asking for too much, fam.

[doomdragon83]

Asking for too much, fam.
:-?
No harm in asking, it's not like they'll ever listen to me and allow you to recolor every part of your clothes.

[sparab]

Breaking news: smart inner survived (for now)

And no rollback

[Zorak000]

https://twitter.com/sega_pso2/status/723023971323518976 they are only mentioning Returner II I think

[wefwq]

【4/21 緊急メンテナンス中】ユニットショップにて特殊能力「リターナーⅡ」が付与されたアイテムが陳列される不具 合を確認したため、終了時刻未定で緊急メンテナンスを実施中です。ご迷惑をおかけしております事をお詫び申 し上げますNo mention of that lewd innerwear fix.

[Sonic Zero]

10 minutes ago on pso2.jp...

ttp://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=8748

[SPOILER-BOX]緊急メンテナンスに関する続報をお伝えいたします。

2016年4月20日（水）の定期メンテナンス以降、ユニットショップにおいて、特殊能力「リターナーⅡ」 が付与されているアイテムが陳列される場合がある不具合を確認いたしました。

本不具合は、ゲーム内経済やゲームバランスに著しく影響を与える不具合となるため、緊急メンテナンスを実施 させていただいております。

緊急メンテナンスの終了時刻につきましては、あらためてご報告させていただきます。

皆様には大変ご迷惑をおかけいたしますことをお詫び申し上げます。[/SPOILER-BOX]

Google translation:

[SPOILER-BOX]We will tell the follow-up related to emergency maintenance.

April 20, 2016 regular maintenance after the (water), in unit shops, items that special ability "returner Ⅱ" has been granted've found a problem that may be display.

This bug, because it becomes a problem that significantly affect the game in the economy and the game balance, we have been carrying out emergency maintenance.

With regard to the end time of the emergency maintenance, we will once again pleased to report.

We apologize that you apologize for any inconvenience to everyone.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Shadowth117]

Breaking news: smart inner survived (for now)

And no rollback

We don't know that there's no rollback. They didn't mention how they were actually handling it. Although this game has yet to actually have a rollback.

[Xaeris]

A rollback would rustle my jimmies pretty hard. "Oh, you finally got Guren Tessen Lv 17 while spamming spider-woman for NT progress? Would be a real shame if something were to...happen to it."

[sparab]

We don't know that there's no rollback. They didn't mention how they were actually handling it. Although this game has yet to actually have a rollback.

If sega rolled back the entire day they may as well (literally) kiss goodbye all PS4 players
Maybe the last 15 minutes, though. The shop raids were ridiculous and 1-2s returner price jumped from 10k to 3m

[Yamishi]

As someone who has mostly avoided layered wear, can someone explain this Smart Inner system to me? How do I do it?

[Anduril]

As someone who has mostly avoided layered wear, can someone explain this Smart Inner system to me? How do I do it?
It's just a inner layer/underwear that covers up the naughty bits, and as such doesn't show through most basewear (except Caseal default basewear). I imagine it is called "smart" because it can go with any basewear (including the inevitable bikinis).

[Icefrenzy]

As someone who has mostly avoided layered wear, can someone explain this Smart Inner system to me? How do I do it?

This post from Quick Questions thread that I asked should have your answer

Here's a post from the screenshot thread. A bit NSFW. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3348680&postcount=63)
Basically, it covers the naughty bits and doesn't show through on most Basewear.
(http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3348680&postcount=63)

[sparab]

As someone who has mostly avoided layered wear, can someone explain this Smart Inner system to me? How do I do it?

It is a new default underwear that you can change from estee

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up184474.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[TaigaUC]

I'm pretty sure the Smart Inner is there for the new basewear coming next scratch.


Can Sega actually do anything? It's not like the ToS was violated, was it?

SEGA and MMO companies tend to punish people even if it's not agaist the ToS.
Then they always rewrite the ToS after. It's kind of screwed up, honestly.

SEGA's already done it a few times. One of them was deciding to prohibit multiple accounts because some people abused it.
They haven't been super tight on reinforcing it, though.

[XbikXBd]

Kinda funny that "this" was the real reason for emergency code maintenance.

Aside from 150+ atk(etc) what was it going to affect?

[DrCatco]

Kinda funny that "this" was the real reason for emergency code maintenance.

Aside from 150+ atk(etc) what was it going to affect?

Ingame economy?

[Shinmarizu]

SEGA and MMO companies tend to punish people even if it's not aganist the ToS.
Then they always rewrite the ToS after. It's kind of screwed up, honestly.

There should not be any reason that Sega should conduct punitive actions in this case. This is a mistake on their part; a very ill-timed one at that.

The way I see it, no matter how lucky some players ended up being, a rollback is the most fair option for everyone. I can understand most people becoming frustrated after losing significant progress with their characters if this were to happen, but is a massive disparity in game balance and economy worth that? Especially for the new PS4 players?

[Nyansan]

Kinda funny that "this" was the real reason for emergency code maintenance.

Aside from 150+ atk(etc) what was it going to affect?

When something that isn't attainable easily suddenly gets a surplus, the item AND its close/equivalent alternatives lose value very quickly. It's almost on the scale of Magatsu cube pinata last year

[XbikXBd]

When something that isn't attainable easily suddenly gets a surplus, the item AND its close/equivalent alternatives lose value very quickly. It's almost on the scale of Magatsu cube pinata last year

So what I'm hearing is it only will effect late game people?

Still dont see the big hub bub. but what ever im sure they will just reset the units to have only one ability or worse remove all of them.

[Madevil]

it seems rare boss does not count in the collection file progress?

[wefwq]

So what I'm hearing is it only will effect late game people?

Still dont see the big hub bub. but what ever im sure they will just reset the units to have only one ability or worse remove all of them.
Easier said, everytime.
They have to check the situation to make best decision they see fit, wrong turn can affect people who don't even know about this bug presence.

[sparab]

As far as I know the shop sold returnerII is only found on specific units so a swap is possible

[.Jack]

Kinda funny that "this" was the real reason for emergency code maintenance.

Aside from 150+ atk(etc) what was it going to affect?

160 unit set is now easy, with this returner affix I'm sure some people would pay mills in the hundreds for extra att. ;-)

[Rakurai]

it seems rare boss does not count in the collection file progress?

I got credit from killing the Nov Ringadal in solo XQ, so they do count.

[TaigaUC]

There should not be any reason that Sega should conduct punitive actions in this case. This is a mistake on their part; a very ill-timed one at that.


Yeah, but I've seen stuff like Nexon banning everyone because they made new accounts to get a gift item, despite it not being against ToS.
SEGA has supposedly banned people for beating Magatsu quickly.

I personally think it's bullshit.
If a game relies that heavily on shit like economy that they have to ban and roll back, then their gameplay/game design is probably lacking.
As in, they're trying to keep people interested in the game by limiting what they can get. That's dripfeeding. A good game doesn't need that.
I'm also tired of online games trying to mimic real life economy. Notice it always ends up with huge inflation?

Man, I can't wait for my triboost 100% x1.

[Madevil]

I got credit from killing the Nov Ringadal in solo XQ, so they do count.

I think they should count, but...
I've killed a Nove Ringadarl, 2 Embryo Vardha, and a アガタ・ジグモリンデ.
Their normal ones are listed in gunslash, katana, and db, but making the rare kills didn't effect my progress

[Qualia]

SEGA has supposedly banned people for beating Magatsu quickly.

To be fair, people were abusing a pretty broken exploit.

[FANSean]

To be fair, people were abusing a pretty broken exploit.

Also I recall they gave a warning to not do it and only dispensed bans when everyone did it anyways

[Shinmarizu]

To be fair, Sega should have fixed that issue immediately instead of saying 'Guys, we know this is a problem, don't do it!' and waiting for people to do exactly that for 3 full weeks.

And then when throwing bans at players, also hitting bystanders who were not using the exploit but were present, as well as players who weren't using the exploit but achieving similar results.

What Sega does in response to this issue will have serious repercussions. They need to handle this well.

[EvilMag]

people didn't abuse chain+banish after the warning. most found other ways to kill Magatsu almost as fast (ie ilbarta stacking, Chain trigger+satalite aim) but Sega still banned them. Granted it was only for a week but still it shouldn't have happened.

[TaigaUC]

That was a design issue though.
If they make a mistake in game design, and people find a way to make their mistake useful, then they shouldn't be banning people for their own mistake.
Note that the strength of Chain Trigger etc. was not considered an "exploit" before Magatsu.
It became a problem because they gave everyone a new situation where a game design oversight allowed for profits beyond their expectation.

It's their fault both ways. People only made use of what was given to them.
You could argue, "you should have known it wasn't intended", but that's not always obvious.
If SEGA didn't intend for something to happen, they shouldn't have put it in the game. Yes, I know they are human and make mistakes.
But they created the situation. They need to take responsibility for that.
With that in mind, it's particularly disgusting that they are punishing people for using what's available to them.
Especially if there were no predefined rules prohibiting such.
There's also the underlying issue with, if you happen to be skilled or organized enough to utilize something effectively, why aren't you being rewarded?
Why are you being severely punished instead?

If it was me, I would take responsibility, and I wouldn't punish people for utilizing an exploit created by my own failure.
At most, I might remove or nullify extreme gains. But I don't think I would make a game that relied heavily on economical gains to begin with.

As Shinmarizu already pointed out, it's also kinda silly that they didn't bother fixing it immediately.

The whole problem fundamentally lies in modern game developers trying to control how people play their game.
That's what I'm ultimately against. Well, that and dripfeeding.
Older games were more about creating a context and letting people mess around freely in that context.
Newer games try to shape a more strictly defined context and make everyone follow the same path. I hate that.

Anyway, I'm sleep deprived, suffering from eyestrain and not feeling too great.
I don't want to get into an argument. Just expressing my frustration and displeasure at the way things are.
Nobody has to be right or wrong or win or whatever. But I think I've made some valid points worth considering.

[SteveCZ]

We'll see how they solve this one. It's kind of a hard one.

If I'm a new player, would I be wrong to buy those returners?
If I'm an old player, would it be wrong if I'm hyped that in this update, Returner II is finally available in the shop to buy?

I'm pretty sure these questions aren't really against the ToS, and it's hard to blame the players for this mistake.
I'm interested to see how they will handle this. Could be a rollback.

[Shinmarizu]

There are a number of possible solutions including the definite rollback that Sega could implement, but there are pros and cons for each of them.

I'm just hoping Sega doesn't decide to take a supposedly easy route. Then again, I'm not aware of another scenario like this one in an MMO, in terms of scale and repercussions.

Sega's concept of fairness in this case will be difficult to apply to everyone involved.

[Rakurai]

I think they should count, but...
I've killed a Nove Ringadarl, 2 Embryo Vardha, and a アガタ・ジグモリンデ.
Their normal ones are listed in gunslash, katana, and db, but making the rare kills didn't effect my progress

Well, that's weird, because I maxed out the gauge on one of the same weapons from killing it.

[nguuuquaaa]

I think you had to go back to lobby or complete another quest to gain gauge on previous one.
Ugh, that seriously confused me too.

[Aine]

wow I missed out on this

love work

[Shinamori]

I wonder if they'll just rollback the shop servers.

[doomdragon83]

The whole problem fundamentally lies in modern game developers trying to control how people play their game.
That's what I'm ultimately against. Well, that and dripfeeding.
Older games were more about creating a context and letting people mess around freely in that context.
Newer games try to shape a more strictly defined context and make everyone follow the same path. I hate that.
Fully agree with this.

[Aine]

Conspiracy: this inner was intended to be an AC item but sega made it default by mistake

I haven't bothered to update PSO2 on my Vita but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in those notes that it was added to the default, presumably for this costume in the next scratch:

[spoiler-box]
http://pso2.jp/players/event/3rd_ma/itemdesigncontest2015/result/costume/image/ss_004.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I don't know why it wasn't mentioned anywhere on the PC notes. Or maybe I just missed it.

[nephie]

AFAIK, you need to break the boss red crystal and finish the whole quest for the kill to be counted, so you can't do things like TA -> kill mid-way boss -> abandon quest.

[Shadowth117]

I haven't bothered to update PSO2 on my Vita but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in those notes that it was added to the default, presumably for this costume in the next scratch:

[spoiler-box]
http://pso2.jp/players/event/3rd_ma/itemdesigncontest2015/result/costume/image/ss_004.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I don't know why it wasn't mentioned anywhere on the PC notes. Or maybe I just missed it.

There's an ingame model picture of that floating around and they conformed it to the body. It won't end up loose like in that picture.

[wefwq]

【続報】4/21 緊急メンテナンスにつきまして、現在修正と確認作業を行っております。終了時刻は4/21(木)22:00を予定しております。詳細はリンク先をご覧ください。ご迷惑をおかけしておりますこと をお詫び申し上げます。22:00JST

I don't think this small bug really took them this long. rollback?

[Aine]

There's an ingame model picture of that floating around and they conformed it to the body. It won't end up loose like in that picture.

Actually I found it, it's mentioned here:

http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=8726


キャラクターにおいて、初期選択可能なインナーウェアに「スマートインナー」を追加します。

[NephyrisX]

22:00 JST.

Jesus, the compensation had better be worth it.

[Nyansan]

22:00 JST.

Jesus, the compensation had better be worth it.

inb4 1 day prem

[wefwq]

22:00 JST.

Jesus, the compensation had better be worth it.
what kind of compensation you want, famalam?

http://puu.sh/oqkKO.png

[JCry]

Not me

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/oqnHR/1eaf7aa1d5.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/oqnIB/014ea1c1ac.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Zeroem]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/oqnHR/1eaf7aa1d5.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/oqnIB/014ea1c1ac.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Heh, all those item are so going to be nuked by SEGA.

[Ordy]

We'll see how they solve this one. It's kind of a hard one.

If I'm a new player, would I be wrong to buy those returners?
If I'm an old player, would it be wrong if I'm hyped that in this update, Returner II is finally available in the shop to buy?

I'm pretty sure these questions aren't really against the ToS, and it's hard to blame the players for this mistake.
I'm interested to see how they will handle this. Could be a rollback.

Here is my point of view.

Case 1: Player X is looking for 1☆ units in shop for cheap affix extend or wants to get that same units bonus. Players X finds some Returner II units in the shop, thinks it's a new feature and gets some for future affix.
Case 2: Player Y never paid attention to the shop for the last 4 years, SEGA makes an emergency maintenance announcement in chat or on the official site about the Returner II bug. Player Y instantly buys a full truck of Returner II units.

How SEGA should handle this?

Case 1: Check the action logs in their DB, select all the entries having the unit shop NPC ID and Returner II ID, delete them all from inventory/storage/shop and return(er) the money. No violation of the ToS, no ban.
Case 2: Do the same as for Player X. However, in this case, the units have been bought after the bug announcement, so Player Y was clearly exploiting a bug, which is a violation of the ToS and could lead to a temporary ban.

It shouldn't be too complicated to recursively search their DB for Returner II units between the 20th and now. No need for a rollback.

[Atmius]

Except It was simply stated that there would be emergency maintenance as far as I'm aware. There was no stated cause of for it until after it had started, so case 2 isn't really valid.

[Shinmarizu]

The only things that would be missed would be Returner II affixes that were grafted onto other units, or ranked up into Returner III/IV/V. While the number of these may be inconsequential, what would be done for those? It doesn't sound like these would be tracked or deleted. If they were, and they were on something valuable...

Not really asking for an additional measure or to give a contrary statement, but you cannot deny the possibility.

[jooozek]

maybe it's because i played many online games that it just seems to me that whoever abused this would have to be really gullible to pretend to not be at fault when maybe not being banned for exploiting such an obvious oversight but having them rolled back, major thumbs up to the guy who might've just went ahead and rented premium storage just to contain all the melons units that are pretty much going to evaporate after maintenance :wacko:

[Ordy]

The only things that would be missed would be Returner II affixes that were grafted onto other units, or ranked up into Returner III/IV/V. While the number of these may be inconsequential, what would be done for those? It doesn't sound like these would be tracked or deleted. If they were, and they were on something valuable...

Not really asking for an additional measure or to give a contrary statement, but you cannot deny the possibility.


Pretty easy too, check the DB for created or failed units with Returner which used shop returner II units, revert all the fodders, return affix mats+money, delete shop 1* units.

[Shinmarizu]

I hope it's within Sega's capabilities to do so, in that case. The unfortunate side effect is that if Sega doesn't do that, it would be a very disappointing sight.

The only way to know is to find out once maintenance lifts....

[Madevil]

Pretty easy too, check the DB for created or failed units with Returner which used shop returner II units, revert all the fodders, return affix mats+money, delete shop 1* units.

if sega do have a log to track, at least they should delete every single unit with returner II that bought from the npc shop

but I don't think they should touch those units already used with affixing, it's just too complicated, and I don't believe they can go through this process without making another bigger problem

[Asuka~]

Server up, also people getting banned apparently. Watch out, yo.

Edit: looks like people still got their Returners... Price is crashing.

[Kondibon]

Normally I support banning for people trying to take a large advantage of obvious bugs you'd have to intentionally try to do... but this actually wasn't really an obvious bug. :/ I hope they aren't perma banning people for this.

[Zeroem]

Server up, also people getting banned apparently. Watch out, yo.

Edit: looks like people still got their Returners... Price is crashing.

So......Vidphone will crash and burn for the next few weeks?

[wefwq]

lmao, what a carebear of management.
people only get told to behave but no real punishment at all.

[Kondibon]

lmao, what a carebear of management.
people only get told to behave but no real punishment at all.It wasn't obviously a bug though. This isn't like in GW2 where you could buy a book and sell it back to the same npc for more for unlimited money.

[lunamaniac]

lmao, what a carebear of management.
people only get told to behave but no real punishment at all.

That seems appropriate for the crime really, since a lot of people would have been "exploiting" this unknowingly.

Just from above, it sounds like maybe people who did abuse it more are being banned?

[Asuka~]

So......Vidphone will crash and burn for the next few weeks?

Yeah pretty much lol

[SteveCZ]

If that's the case, then I assume they'll prepare a better affix or equal in an easier way to obtain later to make that returner not valuable anymore.
That's the only (one) way to fix it.

[lunamaniac]

If that's the case, then I assume they'll prepare a better affix or equal in an easier way to obtain later to make that returner not valuable anymore.
That's the only (one) way to fix it.

I can see that working only if returner and this new affix couldn't be stacked.

[Atmius]

Nope, Their response was "Ok instead of dropping returner 2 from the upcoming XH abduction, we'll make it drop returner 3 instead". Probably low slot so worthless though.

[Zeroem]

If that's the case, then I assume they'll prepare a better affix or equal in an easier way to obtain later to make that returner not valuable anymore.
That's the only (one) way to fix it.

The other way, is to just roll back the whole server to before the Returner was abused.
And give compensation based on what was lost per each individual.

......*sigh* This emergency maintenance felt like a total waste of time now, to be honest (considering what changed and SEGA's way to handle the damage).
If I'm going to rate this maintenance, it's SEGA out of UBISOFT.

[Kondibon]

Where does Returner even come from normally?

EDIT: Nevermind

[Shinmarizu]

So their solution is practically nothing aside from "Don't do it!"??

[wefwq]

It wasn't obviously a bug though. This isn't like in GW2 where you could buy a book and sell it back to the same npc for more for unlimited money.
But it is, maybe it can be right if you still fresh, but every smelly old man here already know those stuff are likely to be a bug.


That seems appropriate for the crime really, since a lot of people would have been "exploiting" this unknowingly.

Just from above, it sounds like maybe people who did abuse it more are being banned?
Only suspended for like, 24 hours.
Literal free money and a day off from the game, they who "abuse" the bug still setting off for luxurious lifestyle, in 24 hours.

Obviously it won't make people who abusing bug scared, i'd take a day off with all of my dirty money intact too.

[Lyrise]

The other way, is to just roll back the whole server to before the Returner was abused.
And give compensation based on what was lost per each individual.



This would have been the worst solution, since you're just going to punish the players who didn't bother with this but may have found a rare worth keeping, levelled up, beat the RNG of AC scratch etc. I'm pretty sure there were only a rather limited pool of players who were able to exploit this. Rollback would have made sense if more players did participate in this "bug".

And if you're saying that players would be compensated based on what was lost for all players, this maintenance would probably last ages, trying to determine who lost stuff of actual value and at what value.

[Kondibon]

But it is, maybe it can be right if you still fresh, but every smelly old man here already know those stuff are likely to be a bug.
I didn't I didn't even know where returner normally came from until today. ._.

It's not like this is sustainable anyway. It's not going to have anymore of an impact on the economy in the long term than people selling 8* pets with bad personalities for 1m when summoner came out.

I wish they had a consistant way to pull the items out of their inventories like Arenanet has done for similar things, but I don't think they have a way to track that, and doing it manually would take forever.

[sol_trigger]

what does this returner II do ? haven't played for a long time

[Zeroem]

And if you're saying that players would be compensated based on what was lost for all players, this maintenance would probably last ages, trying to determine who lost stuff of actual value and at what value.

It is not a pretty solution, but it is prolly the ideal solution (if SEGA did gave back the players exactly what was lost later).
And it's still better, compared to what SEGA does.....which is, well.....*sigh*

[Azure Falcon]

Let's be fair, it's about time they nuked the price of low Returner at this point, it's too much of a pain in the ass for the average player to even consider affixing which makes it utterly useless. They nuked the prices of the likes of Apprentice Soul, Ability III, Vinculum and Stigma over the last year or so and all the train affixes made Bayari Soul and the like cheaper, why the big deal that Returner stays unreasonably expensive?

[Atmius]

There is a distinct difference between the two though.

Pet eggs drop basically everywhere. The longer they've been around, the more will be in the economy, and the lower the price gets.

Returner goes 3>5>10>15>30 all stats/1-5pp for the affix level and comes from SH abduction - You can only realistically do it once every 2 days/character, it requires a significant time setup to get abducted, and on top of that it's only returner 1 - which is completely worthless (3 to each stat/1pp). You need to get abducted a minimum of 36 times to get one returner 5 unit if you have zero failures in the chain. On top of this, returner by default is on an unsellable unit (boost aura) and thus you can only even sell it if you have done it a minimum of two times.

This wouldn't have had a real impact on the economy if they had kept returner in the shop, because then it would be a fair playing field for everybody and they could've made something like a 20 all stats/10pp affix from XH abduction instead, which people would likely prefer, and make it directly compete for an affix slot with returner much like flict/stigma, or mod/vinc do.

As it stands though, consider it to be more like a fever situation: love fever/saint fever/latan fever all raise in price the moment they go out of circulation, but are easily farmable from rappies while it's in rotation. Returner is technically always in rotation, but due to the TA becoming weekly, abduction is a much rarer occurance and because of how tedious it is with no real monetary gain (due to the lack of movement of returner because of the large quantities needed), almost nobody actually specifically aims for cleared abductions to get them.

Those who successfully bought units without a ban are sitting on a gold mine, those who didn't suffer overall because all the associated materials (mod/flict/stat3's/nobles) because of the limited supply. If it was to stay at the vendor, it would become a plausible option for a lower slot affixes to replace a noble, flict, or mod in them, overall lowering prices in the long term because it would be available to anybody to use for an affix option.

[Aine]

Removing the bug and doing nothing else is among the worst things they could have done. If they don't have the capacity to roll back the damage or even just delete the fodders, they should have left it as is or otherwise tanked the price by throwing returner into a popular EQ to minimize the effect on the economy.

[Azure Falcon]

This wouldn't have had a real impact on the economy if they had kept returner in the shop, because then it would be a fair playing field for everybody and they could've made something like a 20 all stats/10pp affix from XH abduction instead, which people would likely prefer, and make it directly compete for an affix slot with returner much like flict/stigma, or mod/vinc do.

If it was to stay at the vendor, it would become a plausible option for a lower slot affixes to replace a noble, flict, or mod in them, overall lowering prices in the long term because it would be available to anybody to use for an affix option.

Exactly what I believe should happen, or maybe throw Returner units in the Excube/Photon shop. Returner is completely pointless as is and should have become far easier to obtain months ago, not have a big emergency patch to try and protect the value of something that nobody even bothers to farm for. If they're scared about nobody caring about abductions then do something to make it relevant again.

[Sonic Zero]

Sega did a greaaaaaaaaaaaat work with maintanance.... i lost 2 gold keys, expired with that emergency maintanance. Look like sega dont extend time of keys how do with Premium expiration.

RIP KEYS.

[Severed001]

something that nobody even bothers to farm for.

FeelsBadMan

[RadiantLegend]

I would have taken a ban to be filthy rich.
Alas forever broke.

[Alma]

so nothing done by Sega to remedy this blunder except fix the npc shop?
feels like they choose the worst of the worst option they have....

[D-Inferno]

Who here is ready for "New-age affixing" for 14* Weapons and 12* Units and "Star Meseta"!?

But yeah, the fact that many will feel that they missed out on a lot of meseta will likely hurt the PS4 launch a lot; and could lead to people quitting or not gearing seriously.

[Shinmarizu]

More like they chose the option that would require the least work to 'fix'.

[Skyly]

Just get back to my house, taking quick bath and looking forward to play some space barbie... :(

���� That was funny lol

On topic: This reminds of the S+10 glitch on XBOX360 PSU that Sega did nothing about.

[TaigaUC]

So they didn't do anything other than remove it from the shops?
Terrible decision. Just proves how detached from reality the current people in charge are.
I agree they should have just left it in the shop.


Sega did a greaaaaaaaaaaaat work with maintanance.... i lost 2 gold keys, expired with that emergency maintanance. Look like sega dont extend time of keys how do with Premium expiration.

RIP KEYS.

Ugh. That's BS.

[Skyly]

So they didn't do anything other than remove it from the shops?
Terrible decision. Just proves how detached from reality the current people in charge are.
I agree they should have just left it in the shop.



Ugh. That's BS.

No they didn't iirc. Rollbacks were an option because they did a few rollbacks on PSU. How much is returner 2 going for in shops?

[TaigaUC]

On Ship 2, 270k for a 1 slot.
I didn't check beyond that.

[untrustful]

ship 10 has em lised for 315k

[ArcaneTechs]

���� That was funny lol

On topic: This reminds of the S+10 glitch on XBOX360 PSU that Sega did nothing about.

Nobody knew the method until a particular youtube video was posted then the bans started rolling out. Ppl selling stacks of s+10s for 1 or 1k meseta each

[FANSean]

No they didn't iirc. Rollbacks were an option because they did a few rollbacks on PSU. How much is returner 2 going for in shops?

Rollbacks probably weren't possible because then people could have lost stuff they got off AC Scratch which probably runs afoul of some obscure gambling law. Also a Rollback when we just got a huge influx of new players via PS4 version would have been a major PR disaster for them. They're probably just hoping they can take measures to reign the economy in.

[Infinity Series]

It seems most people haven't notice it yet.

From bumped.org
(http://www.bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-emergency-maintenance-4212016/)


In order to lower the value of [Returner II], they plan to have units attached with [Returner III] as a reward for clearing the “Escape Quest” on Extra Hard. This will be performed in a future update.

[untrustful]

It seems most people haven't notice it yet.

From bumped.org
(http://www.bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-emergency-maintenance-4212016/)

BEAUTIFUL.

We get rewarded for a glitch!

EDIT: If this never happened, sega wouldn't have bothered to give us an xh abduction right?

[Atmius]

No, they announced it in the last livestream. It's essentially still worthless and hence nobody will go for it because of the tedium involved, and because sega being sega will almost surely make it a low slot unit, rendering the fact it has returner 3 on it completely pointless. If this didn't happen, they would've simply had the unit affixed with returner 2 instead, STILL rendering it pointless. Only a new affix that is essentially better than returner that directly competes for its affix slot would make people care about it.

[Xaeris]

What a weak response. How did such a feeble measure necessitate such a long maintenance?

[TaigaUC]

People are still gonna sell it before XH abduction anyway.

I'd also like to know why it took such a long maintenance to do almost nothing.

[Lvl200Mag]

Good to see that they did nothing but let the people who abused the glitch make a huge amount of money for near free.

[Sonic Zero]

I wish Sega can run a query on database and delete Return ability forever, then can be a nice lesson to that peoples abused and to peoples buy that from shop, and then create another new ability to that units from abduction quest. Just adding a return 3 from a very rare event dont going fix economy.

[D-Inferno]

That, or Sega could just make 14-15* Weapons and 12* Units use a complete different affix system entirely; effectively "wiping the slate". Perhaps even make 14*+ weapons rainbow element so that it doesn't make things tedious for Fo, Te, and Bo.

[Lvl200Mag]

Has anyone seen what type of reactions JPs have to SEGA's "fix"?

[Keilyn]

Ah when did this start?

[Xaelouse]

Has anyone seen what type of reactions JPs have to SEGA's "fix"?

Same as here but under a different language.
Wont be surprised if people selling the suspect unit/affixes in shop get on a "list" or something like the danbo fiasco

[Achelousaurus]

I wish Sega can run a query on database and delete Return ability forever, then can be a nice lesson to that peoples abused and to peoples buy that from shop, and then create another new ability to that units from abduction quest. Just adding a return 3 from a very rare event dont going fix economy.
WTF?
Someone being incredibly butthurt for no reason other than not having abused the bug.

The economy is beyond fucked anyway. People do the worst bs and love to flood until stuff worth a ml yesterday is worth <50k today. Others push prices of everything sky high by monopolizing the market.

Returner is not the problem, player mentality is.
And more returner = more good. I'd think about using it if if wasn't so rare...and the ret 4 > ret 5 % weren't so ridiculous. 10% max, 20% with darkness soul.

[aiMute]

WTF?
Someone being incredibly butthurt for no reason other than not having abused the bug.
[SPOILER-BOX]https://a.pomf.cat/jacthy.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Yea, whatever.

[Shadowstarkirby]

[SPOILER-BOX]https://a.pomf.cat/jacthy.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Yea, whatever.

This is fine and fair. (http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.79394189.9882/flat,1000x1000,075,f.jpg)

[Z-0]

This is honestly a non-issue, considering that there are people with multiple billions and a very large percentage of people have some hundreds of millions now.

[Kondibon]

This is honestly a non-issue, considering that there are people with multiple billions and a very large percentage of people have some hundreds of millions now.Yeah, not to mention it only lasted a day, it's not like this had been going on for weeks.

[Skyly]

[SPOILER-BOX]https://a.pomf.cat/jacthy.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Yea, whatever.

Can't even lie, I'm salty

[Zeroem]

Same as here but under a different language.
Wont be surprised if people selling the suspect unit/affixes in shop get on a "list" or something like the danbo fiasco

I can see that happened, tbh.

.....In the end, people who knew about this get richer without any major repercusion whatsoever.
Yep, SEGA .

[Keilyn]

All SEGA had to do is simply do a rollback to when the launching of the update occurred to cancel it out....

[Xaelouse]

I'm not doing my collection file over again because some fuccbois want to put so much value on just another affix.

[Lvl200Mag]

All SEGA had to do is simply do a rollback to when the launching of the update occurred to cancel it out....

Doing nothing would have been the best option honestly, the value of Returner would crash, no one would have a storage full of gold, no one would be left out, and the community as a whole would now have returner as a more viable thing to affix on gear. If they were truly worried about how having common returner effects abduction they could just add some new super rare thing to come from abduction instead in it's place.

[Zeroem]

Doing nothing would have been the best option honestly, the value of Returner would crash, no one would have a storage full of gold, no one would be left out, and the community as a whole would now have returner as a more viable thing to affix on gear. If they were truly worried about how having common returner effects abduction they could just add some new super rare thing to come from abduction instead in it's place.

This is also a good way to solve this issue (along with re-lock the ability to sell Returner augs at Vidphone).
But alas, someone in JP reported this as gamebreaking. And SEGA took like 10 hours to do basically......-almost- nothing.

[Achelousaurus]

All SEGA had to do is simply do a rollback to when the launching of the update occurred to cancel it out....
Dis trollbait, yo, it is too obvious.

[SteveCZ]

All SEGA has to do is to rollback the server to episode 1 ...

Oops, sorry just my short-minded thinking passing by. :wacko:

[sol_trigger]

Dis trollbait, yo, it is too obvious.


there was nothing troll about that, rollback is one of the option to solve serious problem liek this case, plus, the server was not up for long so a rollback would cause minor damage

i assume you are one of those who benefit from the exploit is against the rollback :-?

[wahahaha]

there was nothing troll about that, rollback is one of the option to solve serious problem liek this case, plus, the server was not up for long so a rollback would cause minor damage

i assume you are one of those who benefit from the exploit is against the rollback :-?

Yeah lets roll back on the first day of PS4 release , lets roll back AC usage too!

[untrustful]

Rollbacks are dumb and stupid and idiotic.

[Kondibon]

Rollbacks should be reserved for way bigger stuff than this... like the server crashing and everyone's characters getting deleted or something.

[sol_trigger]

Yeah lets roll back on the first day of PS4 release , lets roll back AC usage too!


now i call this a trollbait, do you even know what rollback means sir ?

[Strobo_Lemon]

[SPOILER-BOX]https://a.pomf.cat/jacthy.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Yea, whatever.

How do I get rich like this? Do you still even do TACOs on your characters?

[Kondibon]

How do I get rich like this? Do you still even do TACOs on your characters?Someone didn't read the thread. :wacko:

[Altiea]

now i call this a trollbait, do you even know what rollback means sir ?

That's not the point; the point is that while yes, a rollback would undo the damage that the bug caused, the fact of the matter is that it's extremely likely that it will also negatively impact a lot of everything as collateral. I'm pretty sure they'd rather deal with a damaged market rather than screw over a lot of players who happened to log in early and make significant progress, then have it snatched away from them. This is especially bad in the case of new players; SEGA just opened the gates for home console fans; saddling them with a rollback on the first day would be awful for both the players and SEGA's image.

[Keilyn]

Dis trollbait, yo, it is too obvious.

Nah. Not trolling.
This is what I would have done.

The fault is on SEGA itself for letting this issue pass without making sure that it was covered. They did have a decent response time too in finding the issue. However, compensation would have been in order.

When something massive and game-breaking affects a system, rolling back is one of the best options. It screws people over who played during the first day of a new patch, but only being a short time into a new patch and the level of damage not being ascertainable, means that a rollback is perfect in this situation and exactly what back ups are actually designed for.

The reason no server rollback occurred is because SEGA are cowards who have no balls, who prefer to retain things as they are because of the people who paid money for scratches. Rolling back would mean people getting angry for having to scratch their results again. This is exactly why F2P as a model only benefits initial player-count and nothing more..

Its a nice that SEGA can use the cash-shop excuse each time as a measure to escape actually having to fix their things.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So... RIP economy.

50mil LA and accessories here we come...

[pkemr4]

episode 4 being episode 4

[wefwq]

Don't worry, SEGA will add another gathering CO from Yerkes and additional TACO from Klotho ;^)

[Xaeris]

No new meseta was created as a result of this exploit, so I wouldn't expect to see inflation to that degree. Worst case is you have some nouveau richies more willing to fritter meseta away thoughtlessly since they don't have a concept of value. It should be fine.

[FANSean]

I really think people are disgustingly overblowing the consequences this is going to have in the economy long term.

[SteveCZ]

No new meseta was created as a result of this exploit, so I wouldn't expect to see inflation to that degree. Worst case is you have some nouveau richies more willing to fritter meseta away thoughtlessly since they don't have a concept of value. It should be fine.

This I agree. I just don't think some people here understand this though.
All they know someone gets rich because of it and not questioning what happen to the money.

If you can buy an item in the shop for 1K and able to resell it back to the shop for 2K.
THIS will be a disaster, cause there's money being generated, thus inflation. This will surely affect the whole economy.

If you buy that returner II and sell it to other people, the money is only being moved, not generated.
This has no effect in the whole economy, just some people lose money and some other gain money from those who lose it.

I believe they already make a good move to mitigate this. Rolling back on PS4 release is definitely a dumb move.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

No new meseta was created as a result of this exploit, so I wouldn't expect to see inflation to that degree. Worst case is you have some nouveau richies more willing to fritter meseta away thoughtlessly since they don't have a concept of value. It should be fine.

Yeah yeah I know. It's the same reason as to why we're not getting a rollback.

I'm just salty I missed a chance to make 100mil quick so I could stop logging on between scratch releases/the one decent EQ I might care about at the time. Seriously, that fking stabilizer skirt hurt to buy.

[KazukiQZ]

Meanwhile, I spent around 150m meseta to buy 10 5% ele boosters using my hard earned monies just now xD

Kudos to those that benefit from this bug, coz when it happened, I was in story board cutscene lol

[Lvl200Mag]

This I agree. I just don't think some people here understand this though.
All they know someone gets rich because of it and not questioning what happen to the money.

If you can buy an item in the shop for 1K and able to resell it back to the shop for 2K.
THIS will be a disaster, cause there's money being generated, thus inflation. This will surely affect the whole economy.

If you buy that returner II and sell it to other people, the money is only being moved, not generated.
This has no effect in the whole economy, just some people lose money and some other gain money from those who lose it.

I believe they already make a good move to mitigate this. Rolling back on PS4 release is definitely a dumb move.

The issue with this tho is that a large redistribution of wealth can still effect an economy, especially one like pso2 where we have things like ac scratch items that aren't being replenished at any real rate. The people who get rich over night due to an exploit are now free to buy all those things they have been wanting to buy thus raising the price of them.

One super rich person buys a dance = One less dance and now a little bit higher price.

One slightly less super rich person due to buying RII fodder + the three people who are now well off because of him buying from them buying a dance = Four less dances and an even higher price now.

See what I'm saying?

If you look up some articles on how increasing minimum wage can cause inflation you can see and draw a lot of parallels with what we kinda have now.

[Shinmarizu]

Capitalism at its finest.

I still stand by my response to this issue (through my previous posts); it's quite clear that Sega would rather maintain a broken system than actually fix something. While I can understand and appreciate why Sega would not perform something drastic such as mass deletion of items or a rollback, I feel that what was done wasn't adequate to address the issue. This only tells me that Sega's statement about this issue wasn't about 'game economy and balance,' it was about them screwing up but then saying 'oh well. this will go away eventually.'

This will not affect my ability to enjoy what this game offers, but it will distort what I believe Sega is capable of delivering in terms of an enjoyable experience.

[nephie]

and here I cringed at those 1-2 slot returner3+ on visiphone. it pains me more than the real exploit

[Keilyn]

The issue with this tho is that a large redistribution of wealth can still effect an economy, especially one like pso2 where we have things like ac scratch items that aren't being replenished at any real rate. The people who get rich over night due to an exploit are now free to buy all those things they have been wanting to buy thus raising the price of them.

One super rich person buys a dance = One less dance and now a little bit higher price.

One slightly less super rich person due to buying RII fodder + the three people who are now well off because of him buying from them buying a dance = Four less dances and an even higher price now.

See what I'm saying?

If you look up some articles on how increasing minimum wage can cause inflation you can see and draw a lot of parallels with what we kinda have now.

My advice to you regarding articles dealing with the minimum wage is to avoid reading from the media companies, considering that 95% of them are owned by the top 1% who spend their time misleading the public. CEOs in the U.S make up to 500 times more than a worker, and that gap is far too wide.

Talks started through academia about increasing the quality of life for Americans because years ago, Academia presented the following information:

1) 33% - 45% of students enrolled in public school, preK-12 did not have health insurance.
2) Over half the students in Public School were in families that were living in Poverty or Living on the Poverty-Line.
3) During those years, around a third of students coming into pubic schools did not have English as a primary language.
4) If we add the number of students enrolled in PreK-12 AND the number of elderly people, we had at the time 90 million people.

It was also discovered that families in middle-class and lower had the parents work two jobs roughly 60 - 80 a week combined to make ends-meet.

This was around 12 years ago.

Massachusetts made the first move in 2006 with the health care reform act, which created Masshealth and gave everyone health care and any employer who had more than 10 Full-Time employees had to offer some measure of health care to employees. We then wanted to break out of the wage gap and started to increase the min. wage. Its at $10 an hour here. However safeguards were placed to counter company/corporate attempts at fixing prices to reflect the wages. Wage Inequalities were dealt with in spades when many Professional level Higher-Education professions here ended up getting a 2-tiered to 3-tiered advancement/pay system.

As long as the Minimum Wage increase is done correctly, one can actually gain more wealth and not end up having more money that is worth less than it was before. Some products actually dropped in price thanks to state manufacturing in some areas.

Then maybe we will go from a "LIVE TO WORK" nation to a "WORK TO LIVE" nation and people will have time to have fun instead of spending 60 - 80 hours a week on jobs to raise a family....

[EspeonageTieler]

http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up184474.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[S]Conspiracy: this inner was intended to be an AC item but sega made it default by mistake

what costume is this that lets the inner smart show off?

asking for scientific research reasons

[Atmius]

Caseal default basewear.

[Lvl200Mag]

snipy snip

Well said and I agree 100%

[sol_trigger]

an exploit is an exploit, a person who uses exploit to gain benefit is a cheater.

[Z-0]

Not necessarily. While it's kind of obvious in hindsight, people weren't supposed to know that Returner 2 wasn't supposed to show up -- maybe SEGA decided that Returner could go into the Unit shop as a powerful beginner unit, as it needs a lot of resources to make it overpowered. To call people cheaters for buying Returner 2 is kind of retarded.

This shit happens when any update happens, people will find a way to make quick cash from new content before prices tank from people finding out how to make money.

[Xaeris]

Filling several Ex. Storages with units is not the behavior of a player who thinks they're doing something legitimate.

[Z-0]

Not quite, Returner 2 is worth a lot on the market so naturally people are gonna buy as much as possible to make a quick buck before other people find out.

Furthermore there's a lot of people who wanted to use Returner 5, and buying as many Returner 2 units to do it with is a good idea. Might as well buy as much as possible from the unit shop while it's there so you don't have to hunt again (and sell any extras).

[Xaeris]

Uh huh.

[wefwq]

apologist

[sol_trigger]

Not necessarily. While it's kind of obvious in hindsight, people weren't supposed to know that Returner 2 wasn't supposed to show up -- maybe SEGA decided that Returner could go into the Unit shop as a powerful beginner unit, as it needs a lot of resources to make it overpowered. To call people cheaters for buying Returner 2 is kind of retarded.

This shit happens when any update happens, people will find a way to make quick cash from new content before prices tank from people finding out how to make money.


LOL sir, may i ask how many hundred million had you make by exploiting the bug ? i guess about 500 million meseta huh ?

returner II wasn't supposed to be in the shop, but it did, and it was a BUG, those who exploits game bug to gain benefit are called cheater

a cheater is a cheater, are you trying to say there are good cheater and bad cheater or even noble sacred cheater huh?

[TaigaUC]

@sol_trigger
Troll post is troll post.

Who are you to say something wasn't intended to be in the shop?
SEGA is prone to making bizarre and silly decisions.
It could very much have been intentional. I don't think it was obvious at all.
Imagine if it was intentional. Nobody would have noticed, SEGA wouldn't have reacted.
You wouldn't be sitting here acting like it's obvious. That's what it means by "it's obvious in hindsight".

The fact is there's an influx of NEW PLAYERS from PS4, as well as people wanting to play with the new graphics.
Let's also not forget that a ton of PSO2 players are casual players who don't really play games, and don't know how games work.
There's no way any of them would know it was an exploit.
SEGA probably just alienated a shit ton of new players by banning them for innocently buying a unit from the NPC shop.
Good job. But, as you said, a "cheater" is a "cheater".

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, Z-0 is already rich as hell. He doesn't need Returner 2 to "get rich".

Now, regarding Returner 2.
I tried making Returner 2 and selling it a while back. Nobody would buy it.
I have Japanese friends who make a fortune from making and selling affixes. At the time, I asked them about selling Returner.
The response was very dull, like they saw no real reason to even try.
So.. I thought it was worth garbage and nobody wanted it. I either sold them for a tiny price or scrapped them.

With the above in mind, even if I saw it in the shops I probably wouldn't have bought it for these reasons.
See? Now does it still seem like an "obvious exploit"?

[Atmius]

Given it was an "e" tier unit, most casual players wouldn't have gotten a high enough level between first maint finish, and emergency maint start to actually buy them.

[Z-0]

I didn't buy any Returner 2 units because I haven't even logged on recently.

I just feel jumping at people who abused a "bug", which honestly is the kind of bug that shouldn't happen in the first place since it seems like it'd have to be intentional to pull off, filthy cheater exploiters who should be banned is a bit much. Trust me, you would have done the same thing if you knew, I bet.


Besides, if I'm not mistaken, Z-0 is already rich as hell. He doesn't need Returner 2 to "get rich".
Nah, I got less than 20M iirc.

[Achelousaurus]

Nah. Not trolling.
This is what I would have done.

The fault is on SEGA itself for letting this issue pass without making sure that it was covered. They did have a decent response time too in finding the issue. However, compensation would have been in order.

When something massive and game-breaking affects a system, rolling back is one of the best options. It screws people over who played during the first day of a new patch, but only being a short time into a new patch and the level of damage not being ascertainable, means that a rollback is perfect in this situation and exactly what back ups are actually designed for.

The reason no server rollback occurred is because SEGA are cowards who have no balls, who prefer to retain things as they are because of the people who paid money for scratches. Rolling back would mean people getting angry for having to scratch their results again. This is exactly why F2P as a model only benefits initial player-count and nothing more..

Its a nice that SEGA can use the cash-shop excuse each time as a measure to escape actually having to fix their things.
Rollback will piss off about everyone.
If you rollback due to a major issue most can probably be convinced if you give a good apology reward.
But rolling back cause were stupid and made a mistake that has no big impact on anything worth mentioning will piss off about everyone ever.
I'd be furious and all I did was find a couple of cubes and get some exp for classed maxed on cube spcos and having enough cubes to get the next round of them too.
Progress is literally everything in an online rpg and if you invalidate that there is literally no reason to play anymore.
Rolling back for crashing an extremely niche market which will sizzle out and return to normal in a couple of month easily cause it was fixed quickly is nothing worth mentioning.

[TaigaUC]

I added to my post to emphasize why Returner 2 never seemed like a big deal to me.
My experience is just an example of how it's in no way "obvious" that it was an "exploit".

@Z-0
My mistake then. I thought I saw you say you don't waste money on looks stuffs.

@Atmius
You mean stat-wise? I dunno then.
There may have been someone who bought it "to use later".

Meanwhile, one of my PC's fan's blades just snapped off. Never had that happen before.

Anyway, like I said before, blanket punishing people always affects innocents.
Just because we can't imagine reasons to be innocent doesn't mean there aren't any.
They should have just refunded the meseta, removed the Returner 2 and then made a warning against similar future instances.

I'm not defending people who "cheated", I'm saying SEGA's response isn't how I would handle it.
Because i personally don't think it was obvious.

[Xaeris]

Trust me, you would have done the same thing if you knew, I bet.

That's a bold statement. Why do you suppose I'd take advantage of this exploit had I been in position to?

[sol_trigger]

@sol_trigger
Troll post is troll post.

Who are you to say something wasn't intended to be in the shop?
SEGA is prone to making bizarre and silly decisions.
It could very much have been intentional. I don't think it was obvious at all.
Imagine if it was intentional. Nobody would have noticed, SEGA wouldn't have reacted.
You wouldn't be sitting here acting like it's obvious. That's what it means by "it's obvious in hindsight".

The fact is there's an influx of NEW PLAYERS from PS4, as well as people wanting to play with the new graphics.
Let's also not forget that a ton of PSO2 players are casual players who don't really play games, and don't know how games work.
There's no way any of them would know it was an exploit.
SEGA probably just alienated a shit ton of new players by banning them for innocently buying a unit from the NPC shop.
Good job. But, as you said, a "cheater" is a "cheater".

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, Z-0 is already rich as hell. He doesn't need Returner 2 to "get rich".

Now, regarding Returner 2.
I tried making Returner 2 and selling it a while back. Nobody would buy it.
I have Japanese friends who make a fortune from making and selling affixes. At the time, I asked them about selling Returner.
The response was very dull, like they saw no real reason to even try.
So.. I thought it was worth garbage and nobody wanted it. I either sold them for a tiny price or scrapped them.

With the above in mind, even if I saw it in the shops I probably wouldn't have bought it for these reasons.
See? Now does it still seem like an "obvious exploit"?


my turn to ask you : how do you know it wasn't a bug ?
thanks to this i bet you are supa rich now, good for you bro. :grin:

[TaigaUC]

@sol_trigger
There's no way anyone other than SEGA would know for sure that it was or wasn't a bug. That's my point.

I wasn't even online when it happened, "bro".
I woke up exactly when emergency maintenance started.
I'm pretty sure I wrote that in the emergency maintenance thread, too.
Or not, I ended up just writing "never change, SEGA".

The fact that you're making wild assumptions of guilt shows you really don't know or care and just want to flaunt moral superiority.
I can only imagine what kind of person gets off on laughing at the misfortune of possible innocents.
Certainly not someone who would ever admit that, you know, just maybe, they might be wrong.
Not going to waste time responding anymore.

It'll be funny if you one day get banned for no reason and people start telling you that you should have known why because it was "obvious".
Seen it happen to so many people over the years in so many different situations.
The thing is, I don't think I've ever been one of those people.
I'm just able to empathise with others. A trait that's sorely lacking in the West.

There's also such a thing as "looking at both sides of a story".
That's another rare phenomenon in the West.
What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Always seems like the opposite.

[sol_trigger]

k whaterver u say bro, im going to uninstall this game once again because i missed my chance to make 500m meseta while other people are sitting on their meseta throne.

[Xaeris]

"Wild assumptions."

The most rational and probable chain of events given a preponderance of the evidence. So wild. If I didn't know better, I would actually think you guys weren't just rules lawyering.

[Meteor Weapon]

Have fun redownloading and waste time when you get back on.

[TaigaUC]

We're talking about a game where stuff is often vague as hell.
I'm absolutely certain there are people who would have bought it without knowing the implications.
I have JP friends who rarely play games.
I can very much imagine some of them buying the unit innocently and getting banned.
That's why I wanted to express that there is the possibility of innocents getting punished.

I also know people who affix stuff because they enjoy it. It's fun for them.
I can imagine such people wanting to experiment with Returner affixes for the hell of it.
Not for exploiting or profit, but for FUN. I'm sure there are people like that who got banned, too.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not a fan of innocent people getting punished.
It doesn't sit right with me.
If you're going to punish people, you should make it more obvious that they may be doing something wrong.
That's how I fundamentally approach things. Is that really such a bad approach?
In this case, SEGA hasn't had such an incident before. There's no precedent for people buying an item that may or may not have been intentionally available.
If it was something that occurred often... now, that would be very obvious. But this is the FIRST TIME, is it not?

And, like I said, I tried selling Returner 2 months ago, and nobody wanted it.
If Returner 2 suddenly became intentionally available freely, the PRICE WOULD CRASH.
I wouldn't even touch that. Even if I was online at the time, I wouldn't have bought it. It's not worth the risk.
Invest in something that may or may not be intentional?
Either way, you'd end up with either a ban or a loss.

I'm voicing my personal experience and opinion to point out that there are people like me who see the situation completely differently.
But it sounds like people want to dismiss my points because they don't fit into their personal understanding of the situation.

[arokidaaron]

I dunno why people take that guy's posts seriously, i've been noticing his posts for the past months and all he does is diss on what he sees fit. Well either way, my friend says it's a 1 day ban, dunno where he got it tho.

[ShinMegamiSensei]

It says they'll automatically unsuspend the accounts once the units are removed. If there's no action needed by the player then it may be temp for gaijins.

Or they can just check past IP locations and say nope. Or require a response to be sent and nope again.

[Xaeris]

So basically it's not even a penalty suspension, it's a quarantine suspension.

[TaigaUC]

By the way, the wild assumptions I was referring to was sol_trigger saying Z-0 and I must have profited from it.

Apparently, you can't have a different opinion about something without somehow being guilty.
What is this, grade school?

[Keilyn]

By the way, the wild assumptions I was referring to was sol_trigger saying Z-0 and I must have profited from it.

Apparently, you can't have a different opinion about something without somehow being guilty.
What is this, grade school?

Its far worse than grade school. At least in grade school one has a teacher to be the voice of reason in the class to set parameters and conditions in a discussion.

Unfortunately, Americans believe in a two-party system for just about everything. We also carry the belief as a people that if one does not support us, one is against us. Even if we have a third party present itself, we will always blame the third party stealing votes or opinion from one of the two major parties.

Affiliations - Democrat vs Republican
Abortion - ProLife vs ProChoice
Weapons - Gun Possession vs Gun Control
Healthcare - Government Ran Health Care vs Corporate Ran Health Care
Religion - Christianity vs Non-Christianity
Education - Government Ran Education vs Corporate Ran Education.
Who do we trust? - Corporate Mass Media Manipulation vs Government Mass Media Manipulation.
Who should rule? - Government vs Corporations
Who should we be? - Civilian vs Military A.K.A Civilian vs Citizen argument.

When 95% of the media is controlled by corporations, it means that majority of stories on television, newspaper, and internet reflect the thoughts and opinions of corporations, not our government. Especially when the members of the press, who are supposed to be on the side of exposing every issue into the open of the public are actually Corporate-Controlled Lapdogs following the Corporate Payroll and doing their bidding.

[SteveCZ]

an exploit is an exploit, a person who uses exploit to gain benefit is a cheater.

This one is really hard to consider one as exploit though.
What if there's a brand new PS4 player that knows nothing about the game, then bought just a few Returner II from the unit shop just because he wants to know how to affix?

Besides, I believe this they don't take this temporary ban as a cheat-kind of ban.
More like solving problems individually per player so they need a temporary suspension.
I assume it may take longer if they do it during emergency maintenance.


Its far worse than grade school. At least in grade school one has a teacher to be the voice of reason in the class to set parameters and conditions in a discussion.

Unfortunately, Americans believe in a two-party system for just about everything. We also carry the belief as a people that if one does not support us, one is against us. Even if we have a third party present itself, we will always blame the third party stealing votes or opinion from one of the two major parties.

Affiliations - Democrat vs Republican
Abortion - ProLife vs ProChoice
Weapons - Gun Possession vs Gun Control
Healthcare - Government Ran Health Care vs Corporate Ran Health Care
Religion - Christianity vs Non-Christianity
Education - Government Ran Education vs Corporate Ran Education.
Who do we trust? - Corporate Mass Media Manipulation vs Government Mass Media Manipulation.
Who should rule? - Government vs Corporations
Who should we be? - Civilian vs Military A.K.A Civilian vs Citizen argument.

When 95% of the media is controlled by corporations, it means that majority of stories on television, newspaper, and internet reflect the thoughts and opinions of corporations, not our government. Especially when the members of the press, who are supposed to be on the side of exposing every issue into the open of the public are actually Corporate-Controlled Lapdogs following the Corporate Payroll and doing their bidding.

Wtf?

[Zeroem]

I can very much imagine some of them buying the unit innocently and getting banned.
That's why I wanted to express that there is the possibility of innocents getting punished.

I also know people who affix stuff because they enjoy it. It's fun for them.
I can imagine such people wanting to experiment with Returner affixes for the hell of it.
Not for exploiting or profit, but for FUN. I'm sure there are people like that who got banned, too.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not a fan of innocent people getting punished.


To be fair, we cannot judge on what basis people stockpiled Returner II.....maybe except the ones you knew personally.
Maybe their motives are indeed innocent, maybe they are not that innocent. Nobody knew what's inside people's mind, and can be very well fake their innocence. I guess that is the basis for SEGA to just slap temp ban to anyone holding the item in question.

But nevertheless, this is the path SEGA took. As much as I hate saying this (since SEGA track record are not pretty in my eyes and they often make stupid decisions), we should at least believe that SEGA knew what they're doing when they pick this route. If any of all, this is better than just give empty warning.


Apparently, you can't have a different opinion about something without somehow being guilty.
What is this, grade school?

Something about 'if you don't agree with me, you're not on my side'. This is prevalent on many real life (and Internet) discussions.

[wefwq]

ugh, posting wall of text won't make you look smart.

[Kondibon]

ugh, posting wall of text won't make you look smart.
That could be directed at multiple people on the last page. I'm not complaining, or even asking you to elaborate, just pointing it out because I find it funny.

[TaigaUC]

Not that I follow Twitter or anything, but it sounds like some JP people are still pissed?
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image.php?id=79190

Quick summary:
They're annoyed with SEGA's half-assed response, treating the matter as resolved, and handing out Triboost+Suganuma Gem compensation.
One guy wants a rollback.

[NephyrisX]

Not that I follow Twitter or anything, but it sounds like some JP people are still pissed?
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image.php?id=79190

Quick summary:
They're annoyed with SEGA's half-assed response, treating the matter as resolved, and handing out Triboost+Suganuma Gem compensation.
One guy wants a rollback.

Are they angry that they aren't compensated sufficiently, or that the response wasn't severe enough?

[TaigaUC]

I'm not really sure because my main source of info has been people talking about it here.
SEGA screwed up in so many ways that I'm not sure which is upsetting them. Probably everything.

I looked at their Twitter and it's filled with people raging. They're really pissed.
People saying stuff like, "after the last few days, nobody's gonna scratch".
General impression I get is they feel SEGA isn't addressing the issue properly.

Edit: Okay, I think I have a better grasp of the situation now.
They're generally saying SEGA's management is shitty and the worst.
They didn't take back the money earned from Returner 2, then they released a new scratch while simultaneously banning people.
So the whole incident is messing with the scratch economy in various ways.
There's a guy complaining that more than half the scratch is revival stuff, too.
It sounds like they haven't reversed bans on innocent people, either.
SEGA seems to have currently gone quiet and is treating the matter as closed, which is only angering people further.

I don't know how SEGA can be so retarded as to completely destroy their own game, franchise and community.
All by their own stupidity.

[Aine]

They're angry because people are getting away with it (revenue from selling the units and any processed units were untouched) and/or because SEGA has fucked up the response at every stage of the process. A few of my friends have quit PSO2 over this.

[EvilMag]

I wonder if this will be the straw that broke the camels back for most people. People still gave money to SEGA despite the HDD wipes, despite the Magatsu ban waves. But yet this is as bad as those two.

[TaigaUC]

I think it's a culmination of how the game has been of late. Gathering pissed off a lot of people, right?
Instead of addressing the stamina issue, they basically shoved Star Gems in our face. Nobody asked for that.
Layerwear made it a lot more difficult to obtain nice outfits. SEGA failed to address that, too. It feels like it's actually gotten worse.
Now we have NT weapons clogging up the game, making it harder to sort shit and generally confusing people.
There's a huge lack of content for the next year.
In the midst of a severe content drought, the most exciting thing they have to show us is a buffed PD?
Of course people are going to be horribly disappointed.

This has to be the worst episode so far, which is especially bad because they marketed it as the best.
Everything they hyped up turned out to be fucked in the worst way possible.
And now their response to their own mistakes has been handled in the worst way possible.

The current management has dropped the ball or smashed it on everyone's head so many times that people's hopes for the game have burrowed below rockbottom.
Anyone can see that the current management are just horrible, incompetent, greedy pieces of shit.
I was actually surprised Tier 6 didn't destroy everyone's PCs somehow. I was really afraid the prepatch would format my drive.
The PS4 port actually seems pretty decent, too.
It's a shame that the efforts of some SEGA employees who worked hard to attain good results are being so greatly marred by their stupid ass management.

[Saagonsa]

I wonder if this will be the straw that broke the camels back for most people. People still gave money to SEGA despite the HDD wipes, despite the Magatsu ban waves. But yet this is as bad as those two.

It's actually interesting to think about the Magatsu situation in comparison to this one. People absolutely hated Sega for banning people who did chain/banish to get a massive amount of cubes. However, now, there are those who are calling for the people who took advantage of returner 2 to be banned. Both people profited off of something that wasn't supposed to happen, and Sega tried out two different responses. However neither response seemed to satisfy everyone and, really, I don't think any possible response would. I know I can think of quite a few problems involved with just taking away units already affixed, including the fact that it may be possible that they just can't tell the difference between what was affixed with returner gotten from Abductions and what wasn't. I have a feeling that if Sega somehow took away someone's hard earned returner affix the response would not be much better. Also, I really don't think its as much of a massive hit to the economy as some think it is, like Z-0 said earlier, there are plenty of people to whom this would all be just a drop in the bucket. Also the number of people who made it out with 100+ million meseta is much much smaller than you would think. A lot of people were holding on to units waiting to affix them or watching the market and lost a significant portion of the units they bought.

The people calling for a rollback are also out of their minds. That would lose such an incredible amount of people it's not even funny, especially with it being the day of the PS4 release.

[TaigaUC]

Those are two different situations, though.
One is about being efficient enough to beat Magatsu quickly. It required a group playing a certain way.
Sure, you can use cubes to exchange for Spheres or FUN, but were those really that profitable back then?

The other situation is limited-time-only profiting. If you were on at a certain time and knew about it, you could have benefitted.
The whole point of removing Returner 2 was to reverse those effects, and yet, they didn't take back the money or remove combined affixes, or even team-room Returner 2s.
Thus allowing some people to gain free cash while preventing everyone else from doing the same thing.
Ultimately making the economy worse and pissing off a lot of people.

Both of those situations potentially messed with the economy, with effects extending to real money purchases via AC scratch.
I think the latter was more significant, although I'm not entirely sure.
I heard the price of FUN items and Spheres cratered around the time Magatsu was being farmed.
I don't know, because I wasn't really buying or selling that stuff.

On top of the above, in both situations, innocent people got banned.
I think it's also because they've made the same mistake before that people are less forgiving now.
If I got banned by accident once, I'd already be pissed. If it happened again, I would also think about quitting.

I still think just leaving Returner 2 in the shop would have been the best option.
It wasn't worth much before because it was too rare and too difficult to use.
If I'm not mistaken, its value only increased because it became more viable to use.
Leaving it in the shop would have helped nullify that increase in value.
It would probably have ended up being just one new affix people might use.

[Saagonsa]

Those are two different situations, though.
One is about being efficient enough to beat Magatsu quickly.
The other is limited-time-only profiting, which messes with the economy and potentially extends to affecting real money purchases via AC scratch.
The whole point of removing Returner 2 was to reverse those effects, and yet, they didn't take back the money or remove combined affixes, or even team-room Returner 2s.
Thus allowing some people to gain free cash while preventing everyone else from doing the same thing.
Ultimately making the economy worse and pissing off a lot of people.

On top of that, in both situations, innocent people got banned.
I think it's also because they've made the same mistake before that people are less forgiving now.

I still think just leaving Returner 2 in the shop would have been the best option.
It wasn't worth much before because it was too rare and too difficult to use.
If I'm not mistaken, it only went up in price because it became more viable to use.
Leaving it in the shop would have helped nullify that increase in value.
It would probably have ended up being just one new affix people might use.

Except being "efficient enough" involved using a strategy that was about as obviously a bug as returner showing up in the market was. People getting hundreds upon hundreds of cubes, using those to scratch fun, and selling those items generating a fairly large profit also have a large impact on the economy. Why was that okay?

I know someone who made several hundred million selling synths when pets and pancakes first came out, far more than most people could have dreamed to have made off of returner. I'm sure they weren't the only one. Of course the difference between this and returner being "legitimate" and not is fairly obvious, however, did anyone say anything about that or any of the many situations similar to it ruining the economy? I guess I just don't really get what is so significant about this that wasn't perfectly fine before. I do agree that the best option is likely to have been to keep returner in the shops, but even then you'd have the people who previously made returner fodder or units mad that their stuff has now been incredibly devalued more than it already was.

[TaigaUC]

I edited my post pretty heavily while you were writing your reply.
I'm sleep-deprived again, don't mind me.

When I tried to sell Returner before I remember it being something like 100k for a 2 slot Returner 2. I don't recall clearly though.
I'd imagine people wouldn't have been that mad if it was an intended thing, because stuff drops out of value when they add things.
It'd be "normal".

Well, whatever the case, SEGA keeps goofing in stupid ways.
Not surprising that people are pretty sick of it.

People are probably thinking that SEGA's current management has repeatedly shown they can't do a decent job, so why don't they hire someone who can?
If they don't, the game is just going to keep falling deeper into the shitter. In that case, better cut losses and run than sink with the ship.

[jooozek]

Except being "efficient enough" involved using a strategy that was about as obviously a bug as returner showing up in the market was. People getting hundreds upon hundreds of cubes, using those to scratch fun, and selling those items generating a fairly large profit also have a large impact on the economy. Why was that okay?
except segac was banning people left and right even if they didn't have a Gu somewhere, just because they were killing him too fast :no:

[TaigaUC]

Well, the servers still seem full of people during EQ time, so I guess not that many people are upset enough to quit.

[SteveCZ]

Well, the servers still seem full of people during EQ time, so I guess not that many people are upset enough to quit.

Tier 6 Quna - sponsored by Pocari Sweat

[Atmius]

except segac was banning people left and right even if they didn't have a Gu somewhere, just because they were killing him too fast :no:

Actually they were only banning people who ran it "too many times" only on SH, nobody ran it for multiple runs on XH due to far more HP for little extra as far as cubes went.

This turned out to be a bit of an oversight of sorts because you could run it like 10-15 times on VH with no penalty in pubs with the exact same reward as SH minus the non existant 12* weapons

[TaigaUC]

I don't understand how they can lack so much foresight that they never thought of what would happen if people beat an EQ many times.

[Keilyn]

No decent response came from SEGA, yet people bitching and complaining still use their product and give them their money regardless; Score 1 for SEGA, score 0 for the players. Players show that they care for SEGA even though SEGA repeatedly fails in a culture that does not tolerate failure, but for some reason accepts it. Well Done SEGA, Score 2, Players 0.

So why do we suppose that SEGA is allowed to fail in a culture that does not tolerate failure? The answer is because SEGA did not fail their shareholders and its just people bitching and complaining in one game, in which SEGA just worked their Public Relations and Damage Control Magic, while continuing to make money from Scratches across all ships. SEGA Score 3, Players 0.

Hypocrisy means that players are willing to spend their money on a product riddled with dissatisfaction and failure without accountability or responsibility after the said fact, while bitching and complaining. Either that or everyone lies and everyone complains at what isn't such a big deal and would make people less of a hypocrit, but still a hypocrit regardless.

...and here you see why I hardly try to become friends with anyone in forumboards. People seem to be too stupid to understand at how the impact of their own actions affect and justify their own opinion.

Oh no.... I forgot!!! Sorry!!!
The issue will go away and fix itself if we all just hold hands in a circle, do the hippy dance under a rainbow, and pray to loud incoherent Indian music! Yeah... That will work perfectly! ^_^

[wefwq]

That could be directed at multiple people on the last page. I'm not complaining, or even asking you to elaborate, just pointing it out because I find it funny.
Well, maybe.
I just found it to be really obnoxious when someone writting essay to the impression to make themself more "believeable" and look smart.
Though in reality, it's just elaborate nonsense blabbering and even contradict their own argument/statement in the very same post :-?

[Kondibon]

Well, maybe.
I just found it to be really obnoxious when someone writting essay to the impression to make themself more "believeable" and look smart.
Though in reality, it's just elaborate nonsense blabbering and even contradict their own argument/statement in the very same post :-?I don't disagree, and I think I know who you're talking about, I just thought it was funny.

[TaigaUC]

I try not to contradict myself, but I'm sure it happens occasionally.

[Lvl200Mag]

I guess I just don't really get what is so significant about this that wasn't perfectly fine before.

I think there's always been this fine line when it comes to gamers and this type of stuff and whether the community will have a reaction or not. My guess is that the biggest deciding factor of the reaction is how the games team handles the situation and what they say to the community. I would say that if sega noticed people getting hundreds of cubes and making hundreds of millions off of fun scratch stuff, immediately pulled down the servers, and removed magatsu while letting people keep their rewards, we would kinda have the same back lash of players saying "It's not fair that people got to benefit from this and I didn't" :-?

[sol_trigger]

No decent response came from SEGA, yet people bitching and complaining still use their product and give them their money regardless; Score 1 for SEGA, score 0 for the players. Players show that they care for SEGA even though SEGA repeatedly fails in a culture that does not tolerate failure, but for some reason accepts it. Well Done SEGA, Score 2, Players 0.

So why do we suppose that SEGA is allowed to fail in a culture that does not tolerate failure? The answer is because SEGA did not fail their shareholders and its just people bitching and complaining in one game, in which SEGA just worked their Public Relations and Damage Control Magic, while continuing to make money from Scratches across all ships. SEGA Score 3, Players 0.

Hypocrisy means that players are willing to spend their money on a product riddled with dissatisfaction and failure without accountability or responsibility after the said fact, while bitching and complaining. Either that or everyone lies and everyone complains at what isn't such a big deal and would make people less of a hypocrit, but still a hypocrit regardless.

...and here you see why I hardly try to become friends with anyone in forumboards. People seem to be too stupid to understand at how the impact of their own actions affect and justify their own opinion.

Oh no.... I forgot!!! Sorry!!!
The issue will go away and fix itself if we all just hold hands in a circle, do the hippy dance under a rainbow, and pray to loud incoherent Indian music! Yeah... That will work perfectly! ^_^


oho we have got an internet elitist here, yeah right everyone is stupid, you are the only smart guy here. My only impression about you is going around the forum calling everyone stupid or troll bait :-?

this returner 2 incident was clearly an bug exploit case. Im surprised how shameless you cheater can put up these arguments to defend yourself . if returner 2 incident wasn't unwanted and not a bug why would they did emergency maint to took it down? they can just leave it alone

haven't met you ingame yet but i bet you are one of those TACOS toxic players out there who always yell at people and call them stupid :(

[[Ayumi]]

The hell is a "Taco toxic player"

[Altiea]

;3350170']The hell is a "Taco toxic player"

My guess, but probably elitists who berate other, less experienced players for not knowing how to do TACOs?

[Zeroem]

;3350170']The hell is a "Taco toxic player"

Maybe someone that come out as toxic because s/he was playing while eating taco?

That aside, that remark is uncalled for.

[SteveCZ]

;3350170']The hell is a "Taco toxic player"

I think what he meant is this:

[SPOILER-BOX]https://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/8-12/6bB8a6X6NF-10.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[wefwq]

That's why you use ignore feature, too bad it's still show quoted message.


;3350170']The hell is a "Taco toxic player"
From the original post, i have impression it's people who yell at the other because they can't stand people who don't know the secrect club shortcut on the older TA map.

[Shinmarizu]

Perhaps the playerbase wanted to see a coherent, measured and justified response to this issue.

Ww know what happened.

What did Sega do?
Shut down the game servers once they caught wind of the situation, declare that this was a problem that would affect game economy and balance, and then do nothing after 8 or so hours except make the item unavailable for purchase. Only afterward did they decide to suspend certain accounts and begin removing the specific items. They did not trace and remove all existing copies of the item, and they did not trace back and reverse instances where the item was used in exchange for in-game currency or additional advantage (affixing).

They also did not explain why they acted this way; no justification for their actions has been given.

This only tells me they were either unwilling to resolve this issue in a transparent manner, or they are incompetent/incapable. Any issues of fairness, game balance or repercussions (however small in the long-term) are off the table.

I wanted to see what Sega would do in such a situation; now I know.

[[Ayumi]]

That's why you use ignore feature, too bad it's still show quoted message.


From the original post, i have impression it's people who yell at the other because they can't stand people who don't know the secrect club shortcut on the older TA map.

I had one of those in a TA I was in earlier this week (or last week... matters on timezones atm).
Lilipa had a guy trying to order a few of us around in the 2nd area saying
"Okay now wait and don't touch the switches yet." and less than a 2nd later the switches were hit and he was all shouting, "WTF!!!"

a second or so after that we got through the shortcut and he was finally calm and was like "oh."
Laughed so hard at the idea. Not at an elitist standpoint but due to the guy taking it so seriously... or thinking he's the only one on the game that knows how to TA.

[Keilyn]

oho we have got an internet elitist here, yeah right everyone is stupid, you are the only smart guy here. My only impression about you is going around the forum calling everyone stupid or troll bait :-?

this returner 2 incident was clearly an bug exploit case. Im surprised how shameless you cheater can put up these arguments to defend yourself . if returner 2 incident wasn't unwanted and not a bug why would they did emergency maint to took it down? they can just leave it alone

haven't met you ingame yet but i bet you are one of those TACOS toxic players out there who always yell at people and call them stupid :(

You know the difference between myself and most? I can be smart and admit that I can be an utter moron and an idiot at times without playing the denial card or trying to play a game of "spin the bottle" to see who inherits the blame. I hold people accountable. Praise is not common from me, so when you get it, it is because you deserve it.

So that you know. I've only ran a chain of TACOs once since the TACO update. I hardly yell at people in real life or in an online game. Yelling at people is so rare from me that when I do yell, people take notice and start to believe that I am going to start smashing an asshole-shaped piñata!

I didn't buy a single Returner II unit. In fact I did not log in during the entire period that people exploited due to the fact I was remodeling and repairing where I live. I was also providing maintenance to my computers and my replies to this forum all came from my ipad.

The reason I came to PSO, PSU, and PSO-2 was because I wanted a break from tournament gaming. I was a super heavy tournament gamer and even won team-based global tournaments in the past. I wanted something different that wasn't as hectic, where I could "just play" and "unwind." I thought that Online Phantasy Star games lacking PvP would be an alternative environment to my PvP-Only Environments. It wasn't long before the community of players attempted to justify themselves as being superior to others through some means. In the original PSO it was all about the teams and elitism behind possessing weapons like Double Cannon or Spread Needle. In PSU it was all the idiotic Time Attack videos, while in PSO-2 its all the players that combine being a top TAer with Top Equipment and highest fashion around....

PSO2 gave me the ability to play the game regardless of the consequences the way I wanted to play it. I play as Fi/Te... I don't compete with other TAers because I am not here for that. If I fell into having to compete with others, then the purpose of playing this game would have failed and thus I would much rather return to real competition. :) In actual PvP based environments that are far better than proving who can beat a map the fastest...

[Altiea]

Please remind me whether we're complaining about SEGA, fighting each other, or both.

[Zeroem]

Please remind me whether we're complaining about SEGA, fighting each other, or both.

Since this is PSO-W.......both, I guess?

[NephyrisX]

Please remind me whether we're complaining about SEGA, fighting each other, or both.
We don't really need a reminder when we are complaining about SEGA and each other all the time.

[Altiea]

We don't really need a reminder when we are complaining about SEGA and each other all the time.

Valid. It was semi-rhethorical anyways; I just don't think we need to bring personal attacks into this.