Thoughts on summoner class?

[Shinnomura]

When I came back to the game they added the summoner class. What does everyone think of it? The first thing I read when I looked it up was its broken, as in does unfair amounts of damage where nothing is a challenge. Is this true? Does it turn into a boring class at high levels?

[Weiss9029]

Never heard of any broken damage, Everyone I know hates the class and everything related to it

[lunamaniac]

Maron and Torim have very high burst damage potentially, but I don't think they're massively unbalanced.

I actually find it pretty fun to play.

[HentaiLolicon]

It's ok to play. People hate it 'cause it brought trash eggs/candies to drops pool and its lame animation/design

[Selphea]

With enough setup they can hit hilarious numbers, but in the time it takes, most other classes can get the job done faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da5tzNqTLcc

[Shinnomura]

I see, that's very helpful. Thanks everyone!
ありがとう みんな

[Shinnomura]

lol selphea I'm only lvl 30 and my damage is already consistent with that video if not higher, aside from the finishing move with all 9s damage.

[NightfallG]

It's too finicky to consistently make good and has a bad reputation because of that fact. You're better off not bothering. It can be fun to solo with, however.

[Selphea]

lol selphea I'm only lvl 30 and my damage is already consistent with that video if not higher, aside from the finishing move with all 9s damage.

That's uncharged Sazan with a 100 TATK Tact whose only use is to build Chain, of course damage is low :p

[Qualia]

lol selphea I'm only lvl 30 and my damage is already consistent with that video if not higher, aside from the finishing move with all 9s damage.

Lol fam everything before the 999,999 hit is just to add to the chain, and isn't meant to deal much damage at all.

Edit: o

[otakun]

People just like to complain. Summoner is fun and easy to play. It can solo most bosses with less effort and less risk then half the classes. Haters be hatin'

[Caetho]

If you don't have 3 Marons, you're doing it wrong.

[Shinnomura]

I've been doing good with no problems with just my torim lol, haven't needed anything else yet, although I have others. Anyone care for the transforming poodle with wings?

[sol_trigger]

People just like to complain. Summoner is fun and easy to play. It can solo most bosses with less effort and less risk then half the classes. Haters be hatin'


and shitty class be shitty :???:
summoner in sci-fi game, really.

[nguuuquaaa]

Summoners cannot fully evade from AoE attacks without hurting either themselves or their pet. Z-aim does nothing to help pet target the weak parts. Eggs and parfaits also take up space in drop table but cannot be converted to excubes, be fed to NT or be affix fodders.

I hate Summoner. I level it up to 75 for the sake of class bonus, and process to throw every eggs I have ever picked up.

Come to think of it, I have no use for those 13* parfaits either, so excuse me, I'm going to discard all those candies that take up storage for god knows how long.

[Meteor Weapon]

People expect summoner class a cool class such as summoning a fucking bahamut/fucking leviathan etc out of nowhere, then it turned out to be pokemon lol. Better to just call it Tamer, you don't even summon anything lol.

[Kondibon]

Summoner is what I wanted out of force. _(:3

[Caetho]

How could you toss them all out? Wouldn't making scrambled eggs with them be better? :wacko:

Since I don't even get near summoner, I toss out all my eggs. I guess the gameplay could be fun, but its playstyle doesn't fit my tastes.

[Rakurai]

I agree that they need to make 10*+ eggs cubeable.

Even as someone who actually uses the class, it's annoying to have drop tables clogged by their items to the degree they are (Particularly the Yamato EQ).

[nguuuquaaa]

I expect Summoner to have low multipliers and low DPS by themselves, but have skills that summon photon familiars or something to make up for half of their damage.

What I get is pokemon, in which pokemon trainer can also be hurt.

[Shinnomura]

The one thing I'll definitely give it is how fast you can move from one enemy to the next, your pet can cover a lot of distance and keep enemies busy.
My favorite thing about games like this is fighting the strongest enemies it will allow so being able to attack, dodge, heal the pet on my own and take down anything is definitely fun, I was kind of hoping summoner would be weaker in defense and hp, dodging with him is easy so I was hoping bosses would be one his kills but with an all attack build he can still take a few good hits.

[sol_trigger]

People expect summoner class a cool class such as summoning a fucking bahamut/fucking leviathan etc out of nowhere, then it turned out to be pokemon lol. Better to just call it Tamer, you don't even summon anything lol.


this :-D

[ArcaneTechs]

Still laughing because a guy I met thinks SU is one of the top classes in the game cuz SU/GU Chain build with Maron.

>Throw Maron
>Pet Dead
>Switch to either more Maron's (that requires more buildup) or another useless pet
>meanwhile watching other classes out dps (and dmg) SU in the process

SU just needs complete work, useless in TD, useless in most cases outside solo play AND I have all the pets in 13* form just from playing along with 13* candy on them, they aren't that good still.

Better yet, wheres my R/T Hybrid class at?

[Kondibon]

Still laughing because a guy I met thinks SU is one of the top classes in the game cuz SU/GU Chain build with Maron.

>Throw Maron
>Pet Dead
>Switch to either more Maron's (that requires more buildup) or another useless pet
>meanwhile watching other classes out dps (and dmg) SU in the process

SU just needs complete work, useless in TD, useless in most cases outside solo play AND I have all the pets in 13* form just from playing along with 13* candy on them, they aren't that good still.

Better yet, wheres my R/T Hybrid class at?Have you even played the class? >_>

[ArcaneTechs]

Have you even played the class? >_>
Yes, I have which is why I said i have the 13* Pets from playing with it since release, class is beyond bad.

I mean if you think it's good cuz dat solo play by all means but no one full MPAs SU for Mag or PD (or Yamato)

[Kondibon]

I mean if you think it's good cuz dat solo play by all means but no one full MPAs SU for Mag or PD (or Yamato)No one full MPAs Br/Hu either, what's your point? >_>

[echofaith10]

I was in the middle of leveling Braver to make a HuBr when Summoner got released. At first I was going to ignore it, but then I saw the passives it yields, and now is part of my favorite class combo, the HuSu c:

Playing it wasnt as bad as I thought, and is in fact very good for mob clearing thanks to the Chaser PAs(only had Cery then, but the Maron chaser is just insane right now). Compared to Force, it doesnt rely in JA or charging for the most part, so is a very simple class to play and perfect for monotonous task like dailies and such. Bossing isnt a problem, but as others said, other classes can pull it faster.

Only big problem I found for it is the way pets work in general. It encourages you to get several pets and even multiple copies of the same, which turns into a problem when you need to level/gear them all. Doest help that pets are tied to the character, so if you ever make a new one, you will need to repeat the process again. It just feels like too much dedication compared to other classes.

Overall, I think is a decent class. Damage isnt stellar but it gets the job done, and is easy and simple to play. If it wasnt for the pets not having good methods of avoiding damage, I would actually consider maining a Summoner over Force.

[Neith]

I didn't like the class much when I tried it; it felt very disconnected and the pets didn't seem to do much interesting. The real reason I hate Summoner though is for clogging up all my boss crystals with 9* eggs :disapprove: (Although the worst culprits are the 13* rare notifications you get, only for it to be a parfait).

Can't see me ever playing it again, it doesn't interest me in the slightest.

[wefwq]

Got summoner to level 75, and cleared all of it's SP CO.

Gotta admit that SU are really great class, early game.
End-game content, not so much.

The class itself managed to be different compared to any other class, maybe a pretty good breather for some players who got bored with "normal" classes.
I don't liked the pet gimmick too much, summoner has very flawed design since the very beginning it almost feels like that SEGA didn't put much effort in making it but let's not write novel about it for now.

[Caetho]

No one full MPAs Br/Hu either, what's your point? >_>

The point being that SUMMONER is bad in TMPAs because it is lacking in mobbing and requires too much set-up to work on a major boss EQ. Also, no one mentioned Br/Hu in this discussion, please stay on topic.


I was in the middle of leveling Braver to make a HuBr when Summoner got released. At first I was going to ignore it, but then I saw the passives it yields, and now is part of my favorite class combo, the HuSu c:

Playing it wasnt as bad as I thought, and is in fact very good for mob clearing thanks to the Chaser PAs(only had Cery then, but the Maron chaser is just insane right now). Compared to Force, it doesnt rely in JA or charging for the most part, so is a very simple class to play and perfect for monotonous task like dailies and such. Bossing isnt a problem, but as others said, other classes can pull it faster.

I might be misunderstanding you here and correct me if I am. But how do you play HuSu if Tacts are not multi-class? If you mean Su main what do you sub with it?

[Kondibon]

The point being that SUMMONER is bad in TMPAs because it is lacking in mobbing and requires too much set-up to work on a major boss EQ. Also, no one mentioned Br/Hu in this discussion, please stay on topic.And MY point was that people not doing full MPAs of a single class isn't an indicator of whether the class is good or not in a normal group setting. People keep talking about "set up"... what setup? Torim Spiral and Maron Strike? Su has other DPS PAs, you guys are acting like Forces go around doing 300-500k every 2 second or something.

[Poyonche]

The point being that SUMMONER is bad in TMPAs because it is lacking in mobbing and requires too much set-up to work on a major boss EQ. Also, no one mentioned Br/Hu in this discussion, please stay on topic.



I might be misunderstanding you here and correct me if I am. But how do you play HuSu if Tacts are not multi-class? If you mean Su main what do you sub with it?

He uses HuSu, Hu main and Su sub, he uses Hunter weapons and sub Summoner because of the All Attack Bonus, All Attack Up, HP Restorate etc...

Actually it is how i got it. :wacko:

[SteveCZ]

It's hard to judge Summoner assuming not all the pets are out yet.
So far I only have it for bonus stats and the joy of getting all to level 75, that's it.

[NoobSpectre]

I might be misunderstanding you here and correct me if I am. But how do you play HuSu if Tacts are not multi-class? If you mean Su main what do you sub with it?

Well, Su as a sub, if omitted every unnecessary (as in, not the pre-req for unlocking other skill) pet skills, and focus on stat up etc, its kinda decent as a sub, albeit without stance. HuSu is quite unkillable as someone post in Summoner release thread, which is buried in history a few months ago. That guy get scratch damage from Ultimate Lilipur equivalent of a signo and possibly healed to full after 5 seconds or so.

As for how to Su main.... all class weapon maybe? AQ or exp ticket, its not really that hard to cap.

[Alenoir]

Yes, I have which is why I said i have the 13* Pets from playing with it since release, class is beyond bad.

I mean if you think it's good cuz dat solo play by all means but no one full MPAs SU for Mag or PD (or Yamato)

Makes me wonder if you're playing them correctly... I mean, they are by no means easy mob killer in XH unlike brainless PAs such as Disparse (I say this as a BO main), but they are by no means bad. Maybe average, but not as bad as you're trying to make them out to be.

Oh, I've done nothing but SU on Profound lately, need my chance of getting some SU 13*s. Did it on Yamato too, was actually less risky than doing it on BO.

[Kondibon]

Makes me wonder if you're playing them correctly... I mean, they are by no means easy mob killer in XH unlike brainless PAs such as Disparse (I say this as a BO main), but they are by no means bad. Maybe average, but not as bad as you're trying to make them out to be.

Oh, I've done nothing but SU on Profound lately, need my chance of getting some SU 13*s. Did it on Yamato too, was actually less risky than doing it on BO.Kril always does this, anything that isn't the top is absolute garbage, even though that's not how the game works at all. :/

[Caetho]

And MY point was that people not doing full MPAs of a single class isn't an indicator of whether the class is good or not in a normal group setting. People keep talking about "set up"... what setup? Torim Spiral and Maron Strike? Su has other DPS PAs, you guys are acting like Forces go around doing 300-500k every 2 second or something.

Name a situation where Summoner outperforms a specialized spec. FoTe for mobbing, BrGu, RaHu, BrRa and GuRa as bossing specs. It can only keep up with those powerhouses by means of the attacks you just mentioned, otherwise it simply cannot keep up at all. BrHu even does a better job at mobbing due to the latest scaling due to high end S-ATK.


He uses HuSu, Hu main and Su sub, he uses Hunter weapons and sub Summoner because of the All Attack Bonus, All Attack Up, HP Restorate etc...

Actually it is how i got it. :wacko:


Well, Su as a sub, if omitted every unnecessary (as in, not the pre-req for unlocking other skill) pet skills, and focus on stat up etc, its kinda decent as a sub, albeit without stance. HuSu is quite unkillable as someone post in Summoner release thread, which is buried in history a few months ago. That guy get scratch damage from Ultimate Lilipur equivalent of a signo and possibly healed to full after 5 seconds or so.

So it's a tank spec?

[TaigaUC]

Kinda funny people still bashing Summoner without really knowing what they're talking about.
Probably saw one bad example and assumed everyone's the same.
Or enjoying that confirmation bias.

I've played the class, dominated TDs, melted mobs and dealt significant damage during boss EQs.
That's with my shitty pets that aren't maxed out.
So I know that Summoner isn't that crappy in terms of effectiveness.
They're not super ultra powerful, but they're not super ultra crap, either. Balance is good.
Still don't like the overall design or the abomination pets.

Not going to waste time responding, so feel free to argue.
Believe what you want to believe.

[Shinnomura]

I had fun with it on the newest emergency quest, I was able to lead the whole thing so I don't think it's really outperformed, I think the point of it is supposed to be versatility, you can be a powerhouse, tank, mob clearer, healer, buffer, whatever and have a fair balance to it all.

[Kondibon]

Name a situation where Summoner outperforms a specialized spec. FoTe for mobbing, BrGu, RaHu, BrRa and GuRa as bossing specs. It can only keep up with those powerhouses by means of the attacks you just mentioned, otherwise it simply cannot keep up at all. BrHu even does a better job at mobbing due to the latest scaling due to high end S-ATK.

Do you... not know about Torim Stab and Viola stomp...? Like... are you sure? And speaking of set up, Gu/Ra Br/Ra? Really? REALLY?

[Poyonche]

I never used Viola Stomp, well never really used Viola, it isn't the crappy loveless Poodle anymore ?

I also dominate TDs (1,2 and 3 pugs) when I go in as a SU. :wacko:

[Caetho]

Do you... not know about Torim Stab and Viola stomp...? Like... are you sure? And speaking of set up, Gu/Ra Br/Ra? Really? REALLY?

Answering a question with another question does not answer my question.

Kril speaks in the perspective of a TMPA. He says you can play it however you want in Pick-up Groups(PuG) It simply is not ideal in a TMPA, which is what I am speaking of. It's probably a fun class to go about, but let's be honest. Does Summoner really outperform the classes that I mentioned? If not then it is simply a fun class to go around with. Nothing more.

[Shinnomura]

Seemed like viola might be good in boss fights with its transformation, but I've still never ran into a situation that has made me stop using torim

[Alenoir]

Kril speaks in the perspective of a TMPA. He says you can play it however you want in Pick-up Groups(PuG) It simply is not ideal in a TMPA, which is what I am speaking of. It's probably a fun class to go about, but let's be honest. Does Summoner really outperform the classes that I mentioned? If not then it is simply a fun class to go around with. Nothing more.

My Torim Spiral as a SURA testing water with puchbag was 1.2mil for the 5 second charge, back when my bird was like 11*. As long as you can keep up that PP, Torim is pretty broken on a punchbag.

[Shinnomura]

Hey question since you all seem to know these details. Do the stats of your character influence the damage your pet does? As in your str-dmg influencing its.

[Selphea]

Su scores high on ease of use. It's a lot more relaxed to spam Torim Stab on PD than chase it down with BHS, while requiring less setup cost than a FoTe.

[nevershootme]

I play Summoner a ton and I stick to Wanda, Maron, and some occasions Torim and Viola. still maintain high dmg

- Maron chaser tag the golds at the start of TD4
- AOE stun and knockdowns with wanda shock/break on select mobs
- DoT's with Wanda Pulsar or Maron curse
- semi fast farming of weekly taco's (solo) and XQ's
- Lazy reaching of target spots in bosses

TL;DR - Easy, lazy, but gets the job done...

[Xaelouse]

I didn't care for it at first but I respect the gameplay of Maron/Melon of taking damage and dishing it back tenfold.
Even though it's fun, this is a FO/TE BR/GU RA/HU game with everything else being filler

[Kondibon]

I never used Viola Stomp, well never really used Viola, it isn't the crappy loveless Poodle anymore ?

I also dominate TDs (1,2 and 3 pugs) when I go in as a SU. :wacko:Viola was never crappy. People just like to start drinking the haterade if something isn't super amazing as soon as they get it.



Kril speaks in the perspective of a TMPA. He says you can play it however you want in Pick-up Groups(PuG) It simply is not ideal in a TMPA, which is what I am speaking of. It's probably a fun class to go about, but let's be honest. Does Summoner really outperform the classes that I mentioned? If not then it is simply a fun class to go around with. Nothing more.I took about 2 or 3 seconds longer to kill Quartz as a Su/Fi compared to my Gu/Ra, but for all I know that could just be on my end.

If we're talking absolutely super optimal then there are so many other factors that it doesn't matter and we're talking seconds of difference anyway. Also of course combining broken burst mechanics is gonna nuke bosses the best. If anything the problems are CT, WB, and Banish being too strong.

All that said, if you're talking about the absolute maximum then yeah, Su probably isn't specialized enough for that. But the point I'm trying to get at is that the gap isn't so large that it's actively detrimental to have a few summoners in a group like Kril seems to be implying.


Seemed like viola might be good in boss fights with its transformation, but I've still never ran into a situation that has made me stop using torimIt out DPSes everything in Torim's kit except spiral, so if a boss is immobile or slow enough without staying still long enough to actually get a spiral off


Hey question since you all seem to know these details. Do the stats of your character influence the damage your pet does? As in your str-dmg influencing its.Yes, your offensive stats affect your pets. Defensive don't as far as I know.

[sparab]

Viola was never crappy. People just like to start drinking the haterade if something isn't super amazing as soon as they get it.


Unchanged viola is a crappy wanda with no shock, no argue here.
Changed viola has its use with double pulser and stump, but the crazy PP penalty is too much on top of slower motion.

And I hate viola because its eggs drop like dog turds, and it will keep dropping in every new EQ from now on.

[Kondibon]

Unchanged viola is a crappy wanda with no shock, no argue here.It's uncharged PAs (except slicer I guess) out DPS, or are about equal with wandas due to their speed, the only way they're noticeably weaker is the smaller range and worse pp efficiency.

Changed viola has its use with double pulser and stump, but the crazy PP penalty is too much on top of slower motion.
The PP penalty doesn't matter because you don't recover PP while spamming PAs anyway and it's a single press to change back. (or you could be Su/Gu, but eh...)

And I hate viola because its eggs drop like dog turds, and it will keep dropping in every new EQ from now on.
That has nothing to do with how good the pet is. :I

[Zeroem]

I've yet to use SU seriously (as in 100% commited to play the class; since my main haven't use and maxed her Br class, and my second character still working to max his Hu class), but I can tell that SU is not as bad as most people described it (and most of the time people are exaggerating regarding this particular class). It's actually an okay...ish class on it's current state.

But I would say that this class fits the bill of 'trap' toward new players. To stay competitive in late-game, this class would need lots and lots of resources. Even more than Fo/Te. It's fighting style might be weird and loathed for some people, also pets are more like tools instead of living beings. Not to add the eggs cluttering the already messy drop table.

[sparab]

It's uncharged PAs (except slicer I guess) out DPS, or are about equal with wandas due to their speed, the only way they're noticeably weaker is the smaller range and worse pp efficiency.

The PP penalty doesn't matter because you don't recover PP while spamming PAs anyway and it's a single press to change back. (or you could be Su/Gu, but eh...)


Sega labelled unchanged viola as "a pet with unparalleled agility" before release, so...

If maron does not have a PP penalty, nothing else deserves it. Another proof of sega's programmers are brain dead, which everyone already knows.

[Kondibon]

If maron does not have a PP penalty, nothing else deserves it.*looks at all the latents that have pp penalties* what? :wacko:

Like, I won't complain if they get rid of it, but it's so easy to get around as long as you're paying attention to which form it's in that I hardly see it as something that ruins Viola to the point of being unusable.

And I find the comparison to Maron kinda funny since the penalty for Maron is that IT DIES! :I Like yeah, you can get more than one maron, but you can also turn of Viola's boosted form.

[ArcaneTechs]

Makes me wonder if you're playing them correctly... I mean, they are by no means easy mob killer in XH unlike brainless PAs such as Disparse (I say this as a BO main), but they are by no means bad. Maybe average, but not as bad as you're trying to make them out to be.

Oh, I've done nothing but SU on Profound lately, need my chance of getting some SU 13*s. Did it on Yamato too, was actually less risky than doing it on BO.
SU is not bad until it hits XH, then it becomes the "carry me" phase because your not killing as fast and hard as everyone else. I did play SU for a few months after capping it, I didn't drop it right away once it was capped (because that makes a shitty arguement/bandwagon the SU sucks throwouts).

My thing is I haven't seen one good example of SU being good outside outdated SH boss rush videos of SU/GU or SH play. None of that is impressive. This is basically the most casual of the classes, its easy to use, its really lazy to use. Theres really no skill to it (PSO2?skill?inb4), Ive never seen people carry or wipe mobs like crazy in XH with SU either.

Give me some good vids or examples to show me that SU is good because its definitely not top with other classes, at best its mid/low tier. None of this burst dmg with SU/GU is impressive

[sparab]

And I find the comparison to Maron kinda funny since the penalty for Maron is that IT DIES! :I Like yeah, you can get more than one maron, but you can also turn of Viola's boosted form.

A died maron is a good maron, and you can switch to other pets.
A viola gets turned off boost form is a crappy wanda with an empty PP bar.



SU carry me

I agree.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/AH7ow26.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[ArcaneTechs]

A died maron is a good maron, and you can switch to other pets.
A viola gets turned off boost form is a crappy wanda with an empty PP bar.
I agree.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/AH7ow26.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
are you being sarcastic though? I mean in TD its not hard to place let alone i can play TD all the way through until Vibras spawns and is Panic Stunned and have time to set up Maron/CT combo and come up top in dmg (also that pug seems rather bad).

Edit: its Luther, ample time to setup Maron/CT combo's

[Shinnomura]

Thanks Kondinon for the stat info.

So with what everyone is saying does that mean even a pet with stats increased to 2000 are being figured in on these comparisons when it comes to other things being stronger? I say 2000 because I'm guessing that's the stat cap in the game judging by the length of the bar. Is the process of feeding eggs for stats being figured in here?

[sparab]

are you being sarcastic though? I mean in TD its not hard to place let alone i can play TD all the way through until Vibras spawns and is Panic Stunned and have time to set up Maron/CT combo and come up top in dmg (also that pug seems rather bad).

Edit: its Luther, ample time to setup Maron/CT combo's

That was Eloser and average SuBr with *12 pets.

[ArcaneTechs]

That was Eloser and average SuBr with *12 pets.
you sure? because thats generally the damage I see with SU/GU unless you (or whoever) managed Banish(?) arrow then swapped to pet and threw it for that damage count (not sure thats possible). Do tell me how you managed this though, I want to know the buildup to this versus someone else to see how the DPS lines up.

But again this is on a boss that be stunned, bosses that move around or XH mobs, how is this going to help?

[Kondibon]

SU is not bad until it hits XH, then it becomes the "carry me" phase because your not killing as fast and hard as everyone else. What class combo and skill trees did you use? I find that REALLY hard to believe...

EDIT: Can you like, throw out some damage numbers or something you'd consider ideal? I just want to know where your bar is set as to imply the class is useless, because that's LITERALLY what getting carried means.

[ArcaneTechs]

What class combo and skill trees did you use? I find that REALLY hard to believe...
SU/BR, as for SU tree, well its straightforward so i dont have SP's thrown in useless places. Same with BR

[Kondibon]

SU/BR, as for SU tree, well its straightforward so i dont have SP's thrown in useless places. Same with BRAnd you felt like you were getting carried? Do you have some examples of your damage compaired to other people, like say Wanda Slicer vs Sakura End or something?

[ArcaneTechs]

And you felt like you were getting carried? Do you have some examples of your damage compaired to other people, like say Wanda Slicer vs Sakura End or something?
Wanda Slice wp+ele? or non wp/non matching ele?

Wanda Slice versus SE, we speaking from a SU/BR stance vs a BR/HU SE? since you generally don't use Katana much unless your pets all die

[Kondibon]

Wanda Slice wp+ele? or non wp/non matching ele?

Wanda Slice versus SE, we speaking from a SU/BR stance vs a BR/HU SE? since you generally don't use Katana much unless your pets all dieErr I meant someone else using it, and under similar circumstances. Basically your entire argument hinges on this idea that Su does so little damage it can't compete, so I kinda want some examples, as I feel my skill trees and gear aren't up to par to test it properly myself.

[Nitro Vordex]

WHERE THE NUMBERS KRIL SHOW ME THE NUMBERS

[ArcaneTechs]

Err I meant someone else using it, and under similar circumstances. Basically your entire argument hinges on this idea that Su does so little damage it can't compete, so I kinda want some examples, as I feel my skill trees and gear aren't up to par to test it properly myself.
Shifta Drink+Shifta+AE

Wanda Slicer- 1st hit 30k->2nd hit 46k matching Ele on wp.
Non wp dmg, matching ele- 15k->23k
With Point Assist on its about 30k->53k via wp (Dagash)

Example in Ruins Shaq on Dagash and Cyclo's

EDIT: I probably should have had PB gauge full as well, I didn't bother with that though since I wanted some quick dmg stats

[Kondibon]

Shifta Drink+Shifta+AE

Wanda Slicer- 1st hit 30k->2nd hit 46k matching Ele on wp.
Non wp dmg, matching ele- 15k->23k
With Point Assist on its about 30k->53k via wp (Dagash)

Example in Ruins Shaq on Dagash and Cyclo's

EDIT: I probably should have had PB gauge full as well, I didn't bother with that though since I wanted some quick dmg statsA-and this is low? You know what, I'm going to just concede.

[sparab]

10603 Austre with 370 S-ATK guren does about 30k without weakpoint/element boost on average. Just FYI

In my opinion Su is only weak when fighting something that has untargetable weak point like malmath. TPS mode is a pain to use and pets will shot themselves anywhere they please.

[ArcaneTechs]

A-and this is low? You know what, I'm going to just concede.
Ya kinda but at the same time its not top tier for sure

[Alenoir]

A-and this is low? You know what, I'm going to just concede.

And to think I maybe do 12k~20k per hit on Torim Slash... :') Maybe I'm just used to seeing 5k~8k per hit while doing brainless!Disparsing.

[Altiea]

Ya kinda but at the same time its not top tier for sure

I'm interested in hearing your definition of top tier.

[Ordy]

SU is not bad until it hits XH, then it becomes the "carry me" phase because your not killing as fast and hard as everyone else.

http://puu.sh/oMP31/c81bb038d6.png

Not in UQ. Su are UQ kings, they usually carry me (when the SU are actually good SU with maxed candy boxes and pets).

PS: 943k Maron Stike was on WB'ed Anga.

[sparab]

On roaming maps Su can jump in a group of trash and wanda shock until they melt.
Not to mention your pet still hits hard when you are picking up items or organizing backpack.

[TaigaUC]

When Summoner first came out I was constantly topping damage meters in that sea lab limited EQ on XH where everyone was farming 13 star Torim.
By a large amount, if I recall correctly. Summoner has gotten stronger since then, via candy and new pets. I'm sure more people have 13 star pets now.
In TD3 and TD4, I remember often being top for damage. I also remember sometimes having to compete with other Summoners for top damage.
Haven't used damage meters recently, but I doubt Summoner would suddenly have dropped to the bottom since then.

Paste from an old post when I was levelling Summoner. Not the best comparison because most people at SH have crap gear:
[spoiler-box]
Here are damage meter screenshots taken from when I was levelling a Summoner from 55? to 70 (ie. below 70).
SH TD2, SH Apos/Luther, SH TD3 (the one I just complained about). Pets are all at around 10 star, but I only really use Torim.
[spoiler-box]http://i67.tinypic.com/166g3l1.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/16m8vsy.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/5utr6.jpg
[/spoiler-box]
Now, to be fair, I know that Torim Spiral can "overkill" bosses, so take that into consideration.
Note that I don't get many opportunities to use Spiral effectively. It misses a lot.
Also consider that I have time to look at gear and still be on top by this much.
And the damage meters don't count AIS damage. It'd be interesting to see what my AIS damage is like.

I didn't take shots of all the ones where I was #1 in XH TD4 in both damage and rankings.
[/spoiler-box]
If you're not getting the same results I did, these are the reasons I can think of off-hand:
- You aren't playing Summoner properly, or haven't set up Summoner well.
- Your comparisons use people who aren't playing Summoner properly.
- Your multi mostly consists of people who have +150 on everything, Austere weapons, and Chain Trigger. Stuff like that.
- You don't really care, and are just making up whatever to support your argument.

We've (friend and I) have broken our previous record TA times with me using Summoner. Guren Tessen helps.
I like that I can use Guren Tessen while still having the general versatility of pet abilities.
When I use Summoner, stuff dies. It's easy. Mobs, bosses. They both melt.
I still prefer Fighter for boss EQs, though. Feels better.
It also cost a hell of a lot more to max out my Fighter setup. I want to get good use out of that.

Damage comparisons are always very situational.
The fact is that in most situations, Summoner does not consistently appear at the bottom.
That is proof enough in itself that Summoner is not garbage.
If it was garbage, nobody would use it, and SEGA would have to rebalance it.

So why am I defending Summoner? Because I don't like misinformation.
People insisting Summoner is garbage are essentially calling my personal experiences lies.
As far as I'm concerned, Summoner strength is not in question.
It's the general design concept, shitty implemenation, pain-in-the-ass to set up mechanics, and ugly disturbing pets that need improvement.

I think most people are just mixing up their hate for the class and concept with the actual effectiveness.
When I see Summoner pets, I can't help but think "I don't want that in the game". So I can understand that.
I hate the class concept, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging that it's effective.

I have every class at 75 on several characters, and good gear for almost every popular combination.
If Summoner was weak, I wouldn't use it over my other classes. That's all there is to it.
Other people are probably the same. I doubt most other people are using Summoners because they like the ugly pets.
It doesn't matter if a class is aesthetically and conceptually extremely unappealing. If it's strong, people will play it.

[ArcaneTechs]

If you're not getting the same results I did, these are the reasons I can think of off-hand:
- Your comparisons use people who aren't playing Summoner properly.
- Your multi mostly consists of people who have +150 on everything, Austere weapons, and Chain Trigger. Stuff like that.
- You don't really care, and are just making up whatever to support your argument.
The top 2 reasons are basically what I'm running into a lot then versus running bad mpa's and placing top (which saying because you got a bad mpa and doing top damage amongst everyone is your example of a class being good is a whole other story). However though I don't make up what I'm saying like other people who bandwagon " X class is bad because everyone else says it is". Just like you I use my own personal experiences as well.


Damage comparisons are always very situational.
The fact is that in most situations, Summoner does not consistently appear at the bottom.
That is proof enough in itself that Summoner is not garbage.
If it was garbage, nobody would use it, and SEGA would have to rebalance it.
Ya most cases it isn't on the bottom granted you don't have bad players either in PUG's. More than likely (because all I keep seeing is Malon examples) that ya you can place top or mid most of the time (because again Malon) but using other pets aside Malon is what I want to see.


So why am I defending Summoner? Because I don't like misinformation.
People insisting Summoner is garbage are essentially calling my personal experiences lies.
As far as I'm concerned, Summoner strength is not in question.
It's the general design concept, shitty implemenation, pain-in-the-ass to set up mechanics, and ugly disturbing pets that need improvement.
Personal experiences are obviously going to vary now saying just because your personal experiences are pure lies because one person doesnt agree with you is something else, it's like if I said GU/RA is the best class ever solely because its the only class I play and if you disagree and say other classes are better in various other area's then I can basically throw the same thing back at them.


I think most people are just mixing up their hate for the class and concept with the actual effectiveness.
When I see Summoner pets, I can't help but think "I don't want that in the game". So I can understand that.
I hate the class concept, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging that it's effective.
It's effective to a degree that I have not seen anyone do (you know, skilled play) which is why I'm inclined to believe the class isn't very good too because I always see bad SU's (maybe thats my hate? debatable still).


I have every class at 75 on several characters, and good gear for almost every popular combination.
If Summoner was weak, I wouldn't use it over my other classes. That's all there is to it.
Other people are probably the same. I doubt most other people are using Summoners because they like the ugly pets.
It doesn't matter if a class is aesthetically and conceptually extremely unappealing. If it's strong, people will play it.
People either pick it up because its their kind of playstyle or I suppose (again) it's a casual thing. As for strong, I still think at least Mid Tier and ya of course if it's strong people gravitate toward it.


http://puu.sh/oMP31/c81bb038d6.png

Not in UQ. Su are UQ kings, they usually carry me (when the SU are actually good SU with maxed candy boxes and pets).

PS: 943k Maron Stike was on WB'ed Anga.
Look, I can get several Malons too and use them throughout the run (any run) but it doesnt mean top tier or greatest ever. All I'm seeing so far is that Malon is all SU has going for it with these examples. I mean hell, Viola just came out too, no examples of that either or the other pets (again outside CT combo's)

[sparab]

Look, I can get several Malons too and use them throughout the run (any run) but it doesnt mean top tier or greatest ever. All I'm seeing so far is that Malon is all SU has going for it with these examples. I mean hell, Viola just came out too, no examples of that either or the other pets (again outside CT combo's)

So...what are you trying to prove? Su is useless a class because they rely on maron for big damage?

[Ordy]

If I had to choose between:

1) A Su who could solo wipe a lv80 mob wave in 1sec of time and regularly deal over 1m damage during boss fights.
2) A Guren Tessen BrHu spammer.

I'd pick the Su, anytime.
Su are like other classes, without investing time and money to get the right parfait/rolls/13* eggs/skills... they aren't going to do shit in MPA vs Austere/Orbit tier users.

[pkemr4]

if only the made torim alot easier to get or fucking add eggs to collection sheet but make them really annoying to get or something.

[Shinnomura]

if only the made torim alot easier to get or fucking add eggs to collection sheet but make them really annoying to get or something.



I have every pet as far as I know, the player shop has up to 9 star of every pet for just over 1k and plenty of them

[Altiea]

I have every pet as far as I know, the player shop has up to 9 star of every pet for just over 1k and plenty of them

I think he meant 10*+ Eggs, since they're untradeable and notoriously difficult to get. The 10*+ Pets make a huge difference in terms of damage and stats.

[Shinnomura]

Ah, so they do continue to level, I thought eggs capped at 9

[sparab]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/se1JiLL.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

I have seen some bad Su, but that does not make Su a bad class.
With good level/candy/PA set up, even a wanda out damage your average PUG members.

Cough, maron

[Zeroem]

if only the made torim alot easier to get or fucking add eggs to collection sheet but make them really annoying to get or something.

inb4 Rappy eggs as collection files

[ArcaneTechs]

As I said before, aside Maron, what what does SU even have going for it? Because you guys are still throwing this as your only side arguement for damage

[sparab]

As I said before, aside Maron, what what does SU even have going for it? Because you guys are still throwing this as your only side arguement for damage

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3355774#post3355774

[Shinnomura]

Sparab just showed pictures showing damage from a Wanda (considered weakest and most useless) at the top numbers.

[Alenoir]

As I said before, aside Maron, what what does SU even have going for it? Because you guys are still throwing this as your only side arguement for damage

”Torim".

And see above for the Wanda stuffs.



if only the made torim alot easier to get or fucking add eggs to collection sheet but make them really annoying to get or something.

They would never do it. That'd probably slightly break the balance, like Shunka before the nerf.

[Shinnomura]

”Torim".

And see above for the Wanda stuffs.




They would never do it. That'd probably slightly break the balance, like Shunka before the nerf.

So far I've only played mainly with my torim, I haven't even bothered with his spiral move, just using his forward thrust is enough to clear mobs and bosses alike so far, just hit lvl 40 so I'll see what it's like soloing the level up event on very hard when I play next.

[Perfect Chaos]

People expect summoner class a cool class such as summoning a fucking bahamut/fucking leviathan etc out of nowhere, then it turned out to be pokemon lol. Better to just call it Tamer, you don't even summon anything lol.Goronzoron is the real Summoner of PSO2.

[Keilyn]

Summoner is overpowered as a fuck. My experience with Summoner Below:

Started New Character
Gave new character a 12* Egg

Entered SH-Difficulty with it.
I had a mag at level 0
I had no Subclass
I had only 12 points used in the skill tree...
10% element....
Nothing in the Candy Box

Annihilated SH on simply that single pet and on a certain PA was hitting for six-digit numbers.

Good Game Sega...

This reminds me of when the Ritualist Class in the Original Guild Wars came out. The community response was similar to when Summoner came out for PSO-2. Except of a major reviewer of Online Games saying the following line (paraphrased + Spoiler-Box due to content-level)

[spoiler-box]Ritualist Changed the scope of the game, before I actually cramped my fingers actually trying to PvP. Now Arenanet's answer to this pile of bones is to finally give us a class where we can pwn with one hand, and jack off to the hottest character on the field with the other! Current trend is standing still in the middle of the field and putting a weight on my mouse and my cell over the #1, 2, and 3 keys. So far I've obtained over 700 kills like this, ty anet!"[/spoiler-box]

Yeah, I know things change in XH...
but the fact that a summoner can cruise on a whim through just about anything up to XH when other classes actually have to press more than two buttons...really is overpowered.

I guess SEGA needed a class so that VITA users can feel powerful.

[Shinnomura]

Keylin this is exactly why I asked if it was overpowered at the start. Other classes have to manage jumping into action, running around and dodging, hitting their target and managing their healing items. Summoner just walks through and kills everything, barely slowing down. Can heal itself and its pet, can switch to a pet that kills groups or bosses. The biggest thing that feels overpowered was the insanely huge dodge, I jumped into the new frozen ocean emergency quest immediately with it and was able to lead the group, kill most of the mobs before people caught up, flew through all the explosions with my dodge and did my fair share of damage on the boss without ever having to risk my own life

[Keilyn]

Keylin this is exactly why I asked if it was overpowered at the start. Other classes have to manage jumping into action, running around and dodging, hitting their target and managing their healing items. Summoner just walks through and kills everything, barely slowing down. Can heal itself and its pet, can switch to a pet that kills groups or bosses. The biggest thing that feels overpowered was the insanely huge dodge, I jumped into the new frozen ocean emergency quest immediately with it and was able to lead the group, kill most of the mobs before people caught up, flew through all the explosions with my dodge and did my fair share of damage on the boss without ever having to risk my own life

The thing about my point of view is this...

A long time ago I was a mapper/modder and my area in helping gaming communities was patch programming and gameplay balance. I would let the mappers who were very young...ranging from 9 years of age all the way up to 40+ years of age design whatever map they wanted.

They were free to do whatever they wanted.

They would then get a consultation from me where I would host the map privately in my server and let them analyze things. I was also a player who had my own clan/guild that I ran that was into modding and coding. We would completely test the map..

The Mapper would then turn the map over to me with his or her direct supervision and I would act as Quality Assurance/Game Balancing. We would make changes to make the map playable....as I knew the games inside and out, but without destroying the central theme to the map.

In my modding career, I coded over 100 modifications and edited over 300 different maps. I also helped a lot of groups run Quality Assurance in Nvidia's and Intel's Make Something Unreal Contest. I also helped unify the mappers and modders back when most were isolated from each other, to only work within their clans at the turn of the millennium.

I also ran several MMORPG Private Servers and Enjoyed balancing things out and working with teams to balance things out and bug test.

My reply in this thread (and many others) deals with the fact that I love playing PSO-2, but i question its gameplay balance. Everything from Skill Trees all the way down to just overpowered stuff. When I hate people, or hate someone...the worse punishment I give to them is a refusal to give them my knowledge, my aid, or my love...they get nothing, so I say nothing...and just move on.

One doesn't need to make the game 10000x harder to actually "balance" the game. Some players think "Balance" means "increasing difficulty" when it really means making sure that everything counter-balances and makes sense. The META then becomes on how the individual class mechanics function rather than the Global META of attempting to get the strongest weapons possible and build an offensive-based build with the hopes of annihilating bosses through stunlocking part after part of a boss monster.


EDIT: Summoner takes it one step further...
One can just lock on to the central weak point without disabling most bosses and just go straight for the kill...

[Shinnomura]

With what you've said about balance in mind, the way I determine it is that my unbalanced play style should always be difficult, I never put anything in defense and only ever go for speed, manuverability and damage. So the obvious answer would be I should only survive one or two hits at best, making it where I have to play very dodge heavy. But even with that I still get more like 5 normal hits from a boss aside from their ultimate attack. And the summoner dodge makes it where I never get hit regularly.

In general I base how balanced things are by how hard a no defense build is, sense it should never be easy.

[Altiea]

Personally, I think of Summoner as a "farming" class, like those boring, overpowered units you play in Dungeon Fighter Online. I don't really play it for the experience because I don't think its gameplay is simply satisfying enough to be "fun" for me. I play BO/BR if I want to have fun fighting things. However, SU is absolutely magical in UQ because of its damage potential, and in a mode where you don't really want to spend three minutes trying to slay one thing solo, being able to Maron Strike mobs for a gajillion damage and OHKO groups makes farming that much faster.

[Shinnomura]

I agree, I started up the fighter class before logging off last time to see what it's like. I feel like it's harder to close distance to an enemy than with a braver or bouncer. I love the attack speed but I'll have to get used to running up close to my enemies

With braver I only used the starting PA so I could jump from enemy to enemy as fast as possible.

[Altiea]

I agree, I started up the fighter class before logging off last time to see what it's like. I feel like it's harder to close distance to an enemy than with a braver or bouncer. I love the attack speed but I'll have to get used to running up close to my enemies

With braver I only used the starting PA so I could jump from enemy to enemy as fast as possible.

Try TD Air Chase and Knuckle Chase Rings. They work wonders for FI in terms of gap-closing.

[Shinnomura]

Awesome! Thanks!

[Keilyn]

I agree, I started up the fighter class before logging off last time to see what it's like. I feel like it's harder to close distance to an enemy than with a braver or bouncer. I love the attack speed but I'll have to get used to running up close to my enemies

With braver I only used the starting PA so I could jump from enemy to enemy as fast as possible.

Welcome to the land of fighters.
If you want to close distance,
get the ring that helps with Twin Dagger or Knuckles.

Get the one you like best as they help close the gap when fighting with those weapons.

Fighter/Techer is my main class, and I like it because i get to fight bosses in the way dragonball characters fight bosses. The Saiyans let their enemies throw everything against them so when they win against their enemies, they know there can be no regrets.

I do the very same with the boss monsters....I don't stunlock them to pieces. I actually stand and fight and if I lose, I lose.... but if I win, I know I bested the monster and that I did well. As far as combat goes its not as boring as the 10 second kill.

Bravers feel too much like the Japanese Mary Sue of Phantasy Star. ^_^

[Shinnomura]

Awesome! That's how I've been playing with the others so it's nice to find my class finally

[Altiea]

For the record, you'll need Naberirocks and Forest Emeralds to make a Knuckle Chase Ring. I'm not sure about the TD Air Chase Ring, but I'm sure the English patch will tell you.

[Shinnomura]

I've seen skill rings mentioned, is there a certain place to go to make them?

[Keilyn]

I think its Franka's Area where you get them, while its at the Grinding Area (Monica/Dudu) that you grind them up to +20.

[Shinnomura]

Ok thanks for the help

[Shinguru]

As someone who has played Summoner for a long time and with over 100 Su Excubes, i will say, this class is not overpowered on XH level, this class is the "carry me" class, just like a HuSu, a Jet boots Bouncer or some stupid class combination like Fighter/Techer (really? Fi/Te? the fuck are you doing?)

A gimmick like Maron/CT doesn't means it's a top dps class, anything with CT can do insane amounts of damage in the right conditions. Logs that show EQ's like TD don't count for anything, i see people showing logs from their TD/Nab/etc. nigga you don't parse stuff like that what are you doing, you parse stuff like PD and Magatsu, not some stupid shit like TD.

I don't hate the class, in fact i had fun with it and i actually spent time learning the mechanics behind pets and i can say and will keep repeating: Sadly, this class falls in the "carry me" category.

DPS it's not just about hitting a 999k number every 1 minute, in half that time a Fi/Hu can easily outdps that and do even more damage

tho at SH level this class just completely destroys stuff.

[Altiea]

As someone who has played Summoner for a long time and with over 100 Su Excubes, i will say, this class is not overpowered on XH level, this class is the "carry me" class, just like a HuSu, a Jet boots Bouncer or some stupid class combination like Fighter/Techer (really? Fi/Te? the fuck are you doing?)

A gimmick like Maron/CT doesn't means it's a top dps class, anything with CT can do insane amounts of damage in the right conditions. Logs that show EQ's like TD don't count for anything, i see people showing logs from their TD/Nab/etc. nigga you don't parse stuff like that what are you doing, you parse stuff like PD and Magatsu, not some stupid shit like TD.

I don't hate the class, in fact i had fun with it and i actually spent time learning the mechanics behind pets and i can say and will keep repeating: Sadly, this class falls in the "carry me" category.

DPS it's not just about hitting a 999k number every 1 minute, in half that time a Fi/Hu can easily outdps that and do even more damage

tho at SH level this class just completely destroys stuff.

I am moderately certain a FI/TE combo isn't going to be used for actual team play. He'll enjoy the game his way, you'll enjoy it yours. If he actually does use it in team play, more power to him.

Also, where do you get the idea that Jet Boots are a "carry me" Weapon? This legitimately confuses me.

Not to rag on the logic, but I want to see actual numbers for that FI/HU DPS before I make any judgments.

[Lumpen Thingy]

Class is stupid and ruins my storage with worthless eggs and worthless candies that don't work with anything else. Really hope the next class isn't stupid.

[HentaiLolicon]

Dem SUs sometimes indeed shine like a fucking shooting star then return to dirt


Class is stupid and ruins my storage with worthless eggs and worthless candies that don't work with anything else. Really hope the next class isn't stupid.
Oh wow, hold it right there, you want another new class? Really?

[Shinguru]

I am moderately certain a FI/TE combo isn't going to be used for actual team play. He'll enjoy the game his way, you'll enjoy it yours. If he actually does use it in team play, more power to him.

Also, where do you get the idea that Jet Boots are a "carry me" Weapon? This legitimately confuses me.

Not to rag on the logic, but I want to see actual numbers for that FI/HU DPS before I make any judgments.

You can play whatever you want, heck you can even play something like Fo/Ra on team-play, outside of it it's not a good thing to do, that literally screams "leech" and nobody wants a leecher on their MPA.

Jet boots DPS is pretty bad, even with the latest buff to them (which wasn't a buff at all actually) their DPS is high effort low reward, this ultimately leads to them doing sub-par DPS even when there's a skilled user behind that wheel.

You can go and search Fi/Hu doing Solo XQ on Youtube, i mean the fact that a skilled Fi/Hu outdps's a skilled Fo/Te (assuming similar skill levels) should say something.

[Lumpen Thingy]

Oh wow, hold it right there, you want another new class? Really?

Yes a new class that would mix magic and range or a slicer class wouldn't be too awful but nah we needed a gimmicky pet class shoved down our throats.

[Shinnomura]

i remember technomancer being fun because you could constantly put status effects on enemies with whips, freeze them then kill before they thaw. I think adding weapons to the current classes would work just as well as adding a new class. Although I did really like how there were advanced classes, the higher end version of ones you already leveled up. But we certainly don't need new unique classes atm

[Altiea]

i remember technomancer being fun because you could constantly put status effects on enemies with whips, freeze them then kill before they thaw. I think adding weapons to the current classes would work just as well as adding a new class. Although I did really like how there were advanced classes, the higher end version of ones you already leveled up. But we certainly don't need new unique classes atm

We're talking about Phantasy Star, right?

[Shinnomura]

Yeah, psu

[Altiea]

Yeah, psu

Oh, okay. I've never played Universe/Portable, so that confused me for a minute.

[SteveCZ]

Personally, I think of Summoner as a "farming" class.

Agree.

[Shinnomura]

I played both, portable was more fun in my opinion, aside from not having as good of bosses to fight and a few things like that.

[Ordy]

You can go and search Fi/Hu doing Solo XQ on Youtube, i mean the fact that a skilled Fi/Hu outdps's a skilled Fo/Te (assuming similar skill levels) should say something.

Saying FiHu outdps's a FoTe...because they do better in Solo XQ? That's just as retarded as bragging about BrGu dps logs on a Bossing EQ, my nigga

In the right circumstances, some classes will always do better than others, doesn't make them superior to other conventional class combos (except autistic shit like FiTe, FoHu, BoRa...).

[Alenoir]

Jet boots DPS is pretty bad, even with the latest buff to them (which wasn't a buff at all actually) their DPS is high effort low reward, this ultimately leads to them doing sub-par DPS even when there's a skilled user behind that wheel.

I've always viewed JB as a melee-ranged support that doesn't work off the subpalette. I mean, if you're maining TATK then I dunno, but if you're doing SATK, what's stopping you from switching to a pair of Nirochi in the middle of Magatsu and out DPS everyone?

[Caetho]

Saying FiHu outdps's a FoTe...because they do better in Solo XQ? That's just as retarded as bragging about BrGu dps logs on a Bossing EQ, my nigga

In the right circumstances, some classes will always do better than others, doesn't make them superior to other conventional class combos (except autistic shit like FiTe, FoHu, BoRa...).

Ordy, it's not FoHu, it's HuFo. Get it right, and I will let you know that FoHu is meta as f*ck, did you not see how Itsuki in the anime used Over End with a gunslash? That guy is my idol and I follow a build that is Hunter yet still utilizes techs for that extra tanking. Tanking is about hold mobs together after all. My unironic Weddle Park will purge all life on earth and with it take out all the mobs with Ilmegid.

[Keilyn]

Saying FiHu outdps's a FoTe...because they do better in Solo XQ? That's just as retarded as bragging about BrGu dps logs on a Bossing EQ, my nigga

In the right circumstances, some classes will always do better than others, doesn't make them superior to other conventional class combos (except autistic shit like FiTe, FoHu, BoRa...).

Autistic shit? Fi/Te?

You know, I've taken care of people who are Autistic in the past. Their classification of the disorder places them between Moderate to Profound levels of disability. Their treatment is life-long and requirement for treatment beyond moderate levels requires by law a person trained in Special Education along with Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) or Board Certified Behavior Analysis (BCBAs) in conjunction with medical treatment and physical treatment.

I run Fighter/Techer, and it was by choice and an idea that I have. It doesn't make me "Autistic" for doing so. What allows me to play PSO-2 and consider it worthwhile is in being able to play any class combination be it good or bad and have the freedom to explore it. I think in the era of "Destroy everything as fast as possible" people bring work into gaming and assume that results only come from speed, which is what is preached in the real world on many levels.

The population wishes to escape from the torments of work, just to find that all the ideologies they are trying to use a game to escape from have been inherited by the player. I would imagine that if you had ever worked with Autistic Children or Adults, you wouldn't even be comparing class performance and player mentality to Autism.

Difference between Autistic Mentality and Standard Mentality is that Autistic individuals do not get to choose to have their mentality. Many develop into the said mentality or are in some cases born with it. They do not have the choice, and live with it; while standard mentality is a choice we make and have a right to change. Autistic Mentality in its patterns is life-long...

So please, do not compare player choice to a mentality that individuals afflicted with have no choice or say in the matter. When people are afflicted and sick, they are afflicted and sick! No one should be passing judgement in the fact, considering that there are many players who try these class combinations because they wish to try something new or look for a challenge away from the conventional class combinations out there.

I have other characters that run conventional classes and I wonder at times which is worse:

A player who only runs conventional classes out of the feeling while denying all other classes due to popular opinion or risk falling out with others, or players who run conventional classes and give other combinations a chance.

I rather be party to those who like to explore and take more of a chance over those who remain conventional and conservative. I think one of the lines I can relate to the most came from Cartoon Network and the commercials to the first forms of Toonami, where the line was snatched out of an anime that says "Nothing good can ever come from associating with normal people."

Now back to seeing if I can beat a certain monster's Four-Step attack directly. ^_^

[Xaelouse]

I still think it's weird how people can still diss JBs but say nothing about HU main and how sword is almost worthless on raid bosses or how partizan on FI still performs better due to crit strike.
Not like any of this matters since melee classes in general aren't really in "demand" anyway.

[Kondibon]

You're really bad at being concise...

[Keilyn]

I still think it's weird how people can still diss JBs but say nothing about HU main and how sword is almost worthless on raid bosses or how partizan on FI still performs better due to crit strike.
Not like any of this matters since melee classes in general aren't really in "demand" anyway.

Of course they are not.
Look at Katana Braver and how its displaced many classes simply due to the 20 second invulnerability. Braver is another class that has Summoner-Level Overpowered stuff.

Either of its weapons can annihilate bosses, and quite simply put... PSO-2 is the only game I've ever played where a character class gets an Unconditional Invincibility that can be activated by the player, which helps contribute to large-scale damage as well.

inb4 someone posts about Guild Wars 2 invincibility:

Sorry, but no..
Invincibility in Guild Wars lasts for Five Seconds at most, their cooldowns are anywhere from 60 - 90 seconds, and one is still vulnerable to Damage Over Time (DoT) and Retribution.

inb4 someone posts about SBx-Invincibility:

Sorry, but No... and Double-no!
Invincibility is triggered in place of your Critical-Action, meaning the Medic needs a full gauge. The action is only enabled while on foot. It is disabled on while using Mechas. The player has to also use a Cross-Trigger for it....

Upon execution of the action, the player is invincible for 8 seconds, adding a three-second stun to all player attack actions and healing players around them for five percent of their health per action. Once the action finishes, all friendly players heal for full health and half their mana, and half their critical gauge. The Medic dies an enters a Fallen State, which means the Medic can not be revived by any player, and if the Medic respawns after 30 seconds, she comes back with 50% Health, 50% Mana, and 0% gauge and suffers a -4 growth penalty for 12 seconds.

PSO-2....
Oh what? Boss is now in RAGE MODE? Oh Whatever will I do?
"Hits button on my Keyboard... YAY~~~ Im Invincible for 20 seconds...."

Good Game SEGA. :)

I feel that braver and summoner both compete for the title of Supreme Easy-Mode Class :)

[Rehal]

Of course they are not.
Look at Katana Braver and how its displaced many classes simply due to the 20 second invulnerability. Braver is another class that has Summoner-Level Overpowered stuff.

Either of its weapons can annihilate bosses, and quite simply put... PSO-2 is the only game I've ever played where a character class gets an Unconditional Invincibility that can be activated by the player, which helps contribute to large-scale damage as well.

inb4 someone posts about Guild Wars 2 invincibility:

Sorry, but no..
Invincibility in Guild Wars lasts for Five Seconds at most, their cooldowns are anywhere from 60 - 90 seconds, and one is still vulnerable to Damage Over Time (DoT) and Retribution.

inb4 someone posts about SBx-Invincibility:

Sorry, but No... and Double-no!
Invincibility is triggered in place of your Critical-Action, meaning the Medic needs a full gauge. The action is only enabled while on foot. It is disabled on while using Mechas. The player has to also use a Cross-Trigger for it....

Upon execution of the action, the player is invincible for 8 seconds, adding a three-second stun to all player attack actions and healing players around them for five percent of their health per action. Once the action finishes, all friendly players heal for full health and half their mana, and half their critical gauge. The Medic dies an enters a Fallen State, which means the Medic can not be revived by any player, and if the Medic respawns after 30 seconds, she comes back with 50% Health, 50% Mana, and 0% gauge and suffers a -4 growth penalty for 12 seconds.

PSO-2....
Oh what? Boss is now in RAGE MODE? Oh Whatever will I do?
"Hits button on my Keyboard... YAY~~~ Im Invincible for 20 seconds...."

Good Game SEGA. :)

I feel that braver and summoner both compete for the title of Supreme Easy-Mode Class :)

I think you forgot to explain how this Br OPness has anything to do with Su.

[Kondibon]

I feel that braver and summoner both compete for the title of Supreme Easy-Mode Class :)Summoner isn't any easier than Foorce imo.

And while 20 second invincibility on demand is OP I wouldn't call Braver as a whole "easy mode" because of it.

[BWS-1]

Well, I'm still not sure if summer class won't require me to "max all other classes to get their meager bonuses just to NOT be too weak". I DO want to max all classes at some point, for the hell of it (and to try them [because I can]) but would like to have something that can function.

Some classes I'll try to min-max maybe, others I'll try to make something good from what is perceived ass (I'm sorry, I REALLY wanna make a functional Guard Stance Hunter... even if the more I think about it, the more I don't know what fun I'd even have. I guess if Guard Stance would allow for doing some def and/or atk debuff on what hits you or that you hit, it would have a purpose to exist and for a TANK class to exist even, but now? I dunno... but... I digress)

Question though, on topic this time: is it smart to have a Su/Hu setup with War Cry to kite or is that going to mean an early grave for me?

[Altiea]

Question though, on topic this time: is it smart to have a Su/Hu setup with War Cry to kite or is that going to mean an early grave for me?

I'm not quite sure why you would want SU/HU for anything other than defensive purposes, since the net gain on damage multipliers is a big fat zero. Also, the Pet exists to draw Hate away from the player; drawing Hate to the player for reasons other than procing that one Parfait that increases Pet damage the closer it is to the player doesn't make much sense.

[Keilyn]

I think you forgot to explain how this Br OPness has anything to do with Su.

Each class can be free from difficulty-liabilities in their mechanics. In short, difficulty becomes irrelevant, and all that matters is the HP-Sink on an enemy.

Summoner can sit back and just lock on to the weak points of enemy bosses, use abilities to increase damage vs said weak point and just sit back at a distance pushing whatever PA button they need to win...

Braver can at the first sign of danger enter into a 20 second invulnerability and do anything they want close range without any fear of reprisal. In short, its an escape from difficulty.

In short,
the two classes have ways of achieving Temporary "God Mode."

[Kondibon]

Summoner can sit back and just lock on to the weak points of enemy bosses, use abilities to increase damage vs said weak point and just sit back at a distance pushing whatever PA button they need to win...
Force does that too, and then doesn't even have to worry about getting floored because their pet got hit while alter ego is on. Are you going to tell me you have 100 su cubes and every 13* pet too? because out of everyone here, you seem to have played the class the least.

[ArcaneTechs]

Well if this thread has taught me anything, Maron is about all it has going for it, examples shown so far of what looks like weak pugs and someone placing amongst them (versus organized), that SU is op cuz dominates SH and under then gets weak in XH. Maron Maron Maron! Example of wanda was shown but looked like a bad pug. To start skipping Keilyns posts cuz wall-o-text

Still dont have any other pet examples outside these 2 and bad pugs.

Show me how powerful this "op" class is, vids or something (again, pet+CT excluded), i wanna see you play this class so greatly versus parser numbers than anyone can manage.

[Altiea]

Well if this thread has taught me anything, Maron is about all it has going for it, examples shown so far of what looks like weak pugs and someone placing amongst them (versus organized), that SU is op cuz dominates SH and under then gets weak in XH. Maron Maron Maron! Example of wanda was shown but looked like a bad pug. To start skipping Keilyns posts cuz wall-o-text

Still dont have any other pet examples outside these 2 and bad pugs.

Show me how powerful this "op" class is, vids or something (again, pet+CT excluded), i wanna see you play this class so greatly versus parser numbers than anyone can manage.

Again, what's your point? The class sucks because it relies on one thing only? If Pets can be considered like Weapons, then you could say the same of a lot of other classes.

Also, you seem to think the overpoweredness of a class is based solely on what kind of numbers it can push. It's not; the overpoweredness of a class has more to do with how much damage it can push versus how likely it is to die. There are other factors, but those really aren't the point. This is why BR and FO were brought up; they have high damage potential and low likelihood of getting slaughtered (Combat Escape and Mirage Escape). Same thing goes for Summoner.

[Kondibon]

Show me how powerful this "op" class is, vids or something (again, pet+CT excluded), i wanna see you play this class so greatly versus parser numbers than anyone can manage.No one ever claimed the class is op. Heck, I don't even disagree that it doesn't really have a place in organized runs. i just don't see why you're so insistent that it's bad enough to get "carried" in pugs.

[Caetho]

That is pretty much the point that I was trying to make a long time ago, people are glorifying a class that is not actually as good as most people in this thread make it out to be. Big numbers don't equal to skill, it's the fact that you can do the objective properly in a TMPA.

Once again what you do in a PuG is none of my concern but please stop making something look bigger than it is and tricking new players into believing that Summoner is a worthwhile investment in the long run, while it is not. Gearing is a bitch, leveling pets is horrible and in the end you realize that the class is not even one of the best ones while you have this random Force in the group who put 0 effort into getting gear taking a massive shit in your mouth because his name is already enough to trigger the fury of a thousand leeching rat bastards in a TD run.

[sparab]

Still dont have any other pet examples outside these 2 and bad pugs.

Show me how powerful this "op" class is, vids or something (again, pet+CT excluded), i wanna see you play this class so greatly versus parser numbers than anyone can manage.

http://i.imgur.com/5ZQGYMO.jpg

My secret is left click once and AFK.
Sorry but over 90% pugs are at this level. Good players can carry with any class and Su is no exception. While casuals are still casuals even they play Fo or Ra

And maybe you can start giving some examples of your "good class". Stressing Su's reliance on maron is the same level as banning Ra's WB and Fo's Ctech.

[Keilyn]

I have my pets and I've played the class across my characters...

My issue is NOT the endgame itself for Summoner. My issue is all it can get away with compared to other classes and at the speed it can get away with it to reach the endgame. The overpowered elements of the class compared to what other classes have to go through to reach the endgame.

When I started playing summoner, I felt it was overpowered as hell that as a joke I started recording videos of just trying to level up a summoner. The title of the videos were "How long can I go through as a summoner without the character itself taking a hit from a monster?"

I took my very first hit as a summoner in an MPA while I was level 52.
My first death as a summoner occurred when I was level 75 in a TD map, when a player walked my direction and the Infected Gunship killed us both. ^_^

The RPG experience is very important to me. The memories from starting at nothing and becoming strong, surviving, and growing into the endgame...are important. Summoner did not give me those memories. In fact Summoner was a joke, and to me I feel cheated playing the class because of it.

Yes. Force is overpowered as well....
but there is higher risk playing force from beginning to end and every major Phantasy Star game has started Force off being Strong at early-level content, then it becomes weaker in Mid-Game Content, and once it reaches endgame and its fully geared and equipped.... It shines...

Forces in PSO were like that
Forces in PSU were like that
Forces in this game are at their best at Endgame.

I have FAR more better memories playing force from start to finish in PSO-2 than the farce that summoner was. A farce of a class, though I like the pets and i don't mind gearing up classes, still has some overpowered elements to it..

[Alenoir]

Well if this thread has taught me anything, Maron is about all it has going for it

sip

Show me how powerful this "op" class is, vids or something (again, pet+CT excluded), i wanna see you play this class so greatly versus parser numbers than anyone can manage.

I like how you continue to ignore the fact that Torim is a thing. For the hell of it, time stamp says this was taken on Feb 23, 2016 (http://i.imgur.com/x3lx3Jp.jpg). WB, Spiral, doesn't even look like it's above 10*.

I know, not a good example, but I haven't OverParse'd for a while and I don't tweaker.

[Shinnomura]

Thank you keilyn and altiea for your detailed information and opinions.
lol I get back on here and everyone's fighting again.

I really appreciate sharing your perspective and keeping it relevant to difficulty and enjoyment.
I'll no doubt keep playing summoner casually but I'm excited to try out fighter, twin daggers look really fun from the few minutes I got to try them

[Altiea]

lol I get back on here and everyone's fighting again.

Opinion threads usually wind up like this because it's the internet, so don't worry about it.

[starwind75043]

Nah it's not really that op a class. I think it's about right in the middle. You still have fo that can face roll stuff with no worries and they also have there own I win move with compond Techs.

Its just a easy/ easiest to use class. For this casual game that's fine.

[Lumpen Thingy]

Autistic shit? Fi/Te?

You know, I've taken care of people who are Autistic in the past. Their classification of the disorder places them between Moderate to Profound levels of disability. Their treatment is life-long and requirement for treatment beyond moderate levels requires by law a person trained in Special Education along with Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) or Board Certified Behavior Analysis (BCBAs) in conjunction with medical treatment and physical treatment.

I run Fighter/Techer, and it was by choice and an idea that I have. It doesn't make me "Autistic" for doing so. What allows me to play PSO-2 and consider it worthwhile is in being able to play any class combination be it good or bad and have the freedom to explore it. I think in the era of "Destroy everything as fast as possible" people bring work into gaming and assume that results only come from speed, which is what is preached in the real world on many levels.

The population wishes to escape from the torments of work, just to find that all the ideologies they are trying to use a game to escape from have been inherited by the player. I would imagine that if you had ever worked with Autistic Children or Adults, you wouldn't even be comparing class performance and player mentality to Autism.

Difference between Autistic Mentality and Standard Mentality is that Autistic individuals do not get to choose to have their mentality. Many develop into the said mentality or are in some cases born with it. They do not have the choice, and live with it; while standard mentality is a choice we make and have a right to change. Autistic Mentality in its patterns is life-long...

So please, do not compare player choice to a mentality that individuals afflicted with have no choice or say in the matter. When people are afflicted and sick, they are afflicted and sick! No one should be passing judgement in the fact, considering that there are many players who try these class combinations because they wish to try something new or look for a challenge away from the conventional class combinations out there.

I have other characters that run conventional classes and I wonder at times which is worse:

A player who only runs conventional classes out of the feeling while denying all other classes due to popular opinion or risk falling out with others, or players who run conventional classes and give other combinations a chance.

I rather be party to those who like to explore and take more of a chance over those who remain conventional and conservative. I think one of the lines I can relate to the most came from Cartoon Network and the commercials to the first forms of Toonami, where the line was snatched out of an anime that says "Nothing good can ever come from associating with normal people."

Now back to seeing if I can beat a certain monster's Four-Step attack directly. ^_^
this entire essay gave me autism

[Shinguru]

Saying FiHu outdps's a FoTe...because they do better in Solo XQ? That's just as retarded as bragging about BrGu dps logs on a Bossing EQ, my nigga

In the right circumstances, some classes will always do better than others, doesn't make them superior to other conventional class combos (except autistic shit like FiTe, FoHu, BoRa...).

Did i ever say a Fi/Hu outdps's a Fo/Te solely based on Solo XQ?


Reading comprehension, "my nigga"



Autistic shit? Fi/Te?

You know, I've taken care of people who are Autistic in the past. Their classification of the disorder places them between Moderate to Profound levels of disability. Their treatment is life-long and requirement for treatment beyond moderate levels requires by law a person trained in Special Education along with Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) or Board Certified Behavior Analysis (BCBAs) in conjunction with medical treatment and physical treatment.

I run Fighter/Techer, and it was by choice and an idea that I have. It doesn't make me "Autistic" for doing so...

i'm not reading this shit.


Are you going to tell me you have 100 su cubes and every 13* pet too?

sounds like you think i'm lying

although you're correct on me not having every 13* pet. Never said i had them though.

i.imgur.com/C2OzNYp.jpg

[Zeroem]

Holy Mother Trinity. What this thread was evolved (or devolved) into.....

I guess in general people agree that SU is not the bottom of the barrel as most people described it and could produce good numbers.......with proper skill setups and candybox (Su's term of affixing pets). Not OP, but something different.

[sparab]

i.imgur.com/C2OzNYp.jpg

Y, you are winner!
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up188110.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Selphea]

o.o you guys don't flush your class cubes out of storage?

[KazukiQZ]

^There might use of them in the future haha

Me myself has 120+ FO cubes and 90+ RA cubes xD

[Shinnomura]

What are cubes?

[Altiea]

What are cubes?

Excubes. You trade in 10* or 11* weapons for them, or you get them when you earn enough EXP at Level 75. You use them for miscellaneous stuff, like buying from the Excube Shop, Crafting, etc.

[sol_trigger]

there is no doubt that Keilyn guy is one autistic bro... every fking posts he made was a wall of texts, going around on the forum calling other people trollbait, troll and stupid, feeling superior when he's ingame

.yeah that's autistic we're talking about

[Shinnomura]

I don't see any problem with anything he's said, he was being helpful without just saying it's crap/OP.

[HentaiLolicon]

I don't see any problem with anything he's said, he was being helpful without just saying it's crap/OP.
Except that half of his text is unnecessary. And, you know, the TL;DR disease is kinda wide spread

[SteveCZ]

I don't see any problem with anything he's said, he was being helpful without just saying it's crap/OP.

It's tiring to read posts that contain only 3% useful information and 97% of them are something somewhere else around the world just trying so hard to prove how smart the poster is, even when it's not related to the subject.

Maybe that's what he meant. :roll:

[sol_trigger]

because you are a newbie and you dont know shits about him, like all other internet autistic elitists, he's nice on the outside but if he sees you post anything go against his will, you will be marked as a trollbait,troll or even called stupid immediately. He even exploited game bug to gain hundred million of meseta not too long ago and shameless defended the act like it was normal. "it's SEGA's fault for messing up so our exploiting is legit"

[Shinnomura]

Well if the game allows it I won't complain about any method a player uses. I agree I don't know him or any of you, for that reason I'll base my opinions of people on how people respond and which people specifically only say negative things.

[Altiea]

Well if the game allows it I won't complain about any method a player uses. I agree I don't know him or any of you, for that reason I'll base my opinions of people on how people respond and which people specifically only say negative things.

Honestly, you're better off doing this. As you can probably tell, there's a lot of infighting that goes on because everyone either secretly despises everyone else or they just don't like how other people function. It's just something you have to get used to.

[Nitro Vordex]

Oh look, psow posters went off topic and immature again.

*clicks clicker*

[Altiea]

Oh look, psow posters went off topic and immature again.

*clicks clicker*

You make it sound like it's noteworthy when it happens so often.

[Shinnomura]

Thanks altiea, my impression is that this newbie *points at self* is going to end up with people that don't like him based on whoever be sides with lol
Best to not worry about it from the get-go

[Shinnomura]

Oh also, I've never been a part of Internet communities like this so I don't know common terms. What does elitest mean?

[HentaiLolicon]

Oh also, I've never been a part of Internet communities like this so I don't know common terms. What does elitest mean?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=elitist

[Shinnomura]

Ah, my thoughts were in a completely different direction. Thanks ^^

[lostinseganet]

When I came back to the game they added the summoner class. What does everyone think of it? The first thing I read when I looked it up was its broken, as in does unfair amounts of damage where nothing is a challenge. Is this true? Does it turn into a boring class at high levels?Mags should have been able to do what summoners do

[Shinnomura]

Oh getting to use a mag like that would be fun! I think a mag specialist class would of been interesting to use

[Keilyn]

A few things:

1) My life isn't so shallow to try to prove my intelligence here to anyone, especially to people who I do not know, nor care to know me. In fact, I lower myself in order to communicate and facilitate with people here....and that is a good thing because part of communication is reaching your audience.

2) If you have a problem, tell me. The kind of people I need and want in my life are people who can be adults and not be afraid to be man or woman enough to actually tell me off and not write themselves as passive jerks. Kindness is something I do not want, or need.

3) As I read many posts here... I instantaneously (a second nature thing) calculate in my head your probability of lying, as well as your probability of your information having good integrity. I can also calculate need. Its amazing all the kindness and benefit of the doubt I give people here without simply blowing up and just calling each person out on every crappy thing that comes across.

4) People don't like long posts. Then again people don't like anything that is long anymore. You don't have to read if you don't want to. Deep down I actually do care about helping those who are worth it. Forumboards are Forumboards. They are not TEXT-Messages...if they were... I would do my utmost best to say everything I need to say in my 160 character limit and nothing more..

Last but not least:

It's not my fault that people fail to see how I connect information. I used to think that was my problem you know. I used to think I was to blame for being "off topic" until I met someone with my IQ who did the exact same thing in data extrapolation and comparison. Then it hit me in our discussion that such methods have not been taught since the 90s, and colleges only give students minimum exposure to it in a world where everyone is trying to play it safe and not take any risks.

I am a masshole,
You are either going to love me
or fucking hate me.

There is no mystery and at least I make it easy.
Really....

"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished...."

[Shinnomura]

Do you have an estimate on how many people will skip reading to the end? I suppose only people who specifically dislike you or are interested in what you're saying would bother nowadays.

[Altiea]

I am a masshole,
You are either going to love me
or fucking hate me.

Can I be a tiny bit of both? I certainly don't hate anyone, but honestly speaking, my opinion is a little complex. Then again, I'm a simple person with inferiority complex issues.

[Shinnomura]

Can I be a tiny bit of both? I certainly don't hate anyone, but honestly speaking, my opinion is a little complex. Then again, I'm a simple person with inferiority complex issues.


Interesting combination lol
Even I'll admit we're all "off topic" at this point but I'm enjoying reading perspectives from so many people.

[Altiea]

Interesting combination lol
Even I'll admit we're all "off topic" at this point but I'm enjoying reading perspectives from so many people.

Part of the "fun" of forums is that you get to meet people. Considering where forums originally came from, I'd say it's appropriate.

Plus, I think we established that you decided to main Fighter, so the issue is more or less resolved.

[Shinnomura]

Yep, fighter sounds and feels really enjoyable, as soon as I get used to closing distance again.

[lunamaniac]

I think Summoner is ok, and I've enjoyed playing around with Maron a lot.

What interests me more in this topic is the strange back and forth meta debate.

Being straightforward, I think Keilyn is mostly in the right. All they were doing was stating their opinion. By calling them autistic among other things, it actually irritates me a little. Especially since it must be upsetting for people who actually have been professionally labelled that way.

This is a forum, if you disagree with someone you should be disagreeing with their points. Character assassination is just unkind and unnecessary and gets us nowhere in the original discussion.

Out of respect for Keilyn I'll also be straightforward and say that despite being more or less on your side in this, you've said some things that really don't support your case.

You say that you "lower [yourself] in order to communicate and facilitate with people here".

This is quite rude, but to people who disagree with you - you've just given them extra ammunition. Because if it really was your aim to lower yourself to their level and blend in, you've failed. Being an individual and not standing for classroom politics is all very good.

But saying you have to put in conscious effort to lower yourself to another's level, as a response to being called out for being high and mighty, seems a little foolish. It'll just anger anyone who's already decided they don't like you and doesn't make a lot of sense.

As you can tell, I'm on a high horse myself.

Despite that:

As a disclaimer, I'm an idiot. If I was smart I'd not have posted anything at all, but I just felt like throwing myself into the fire for some reason.

Also, Altiea, I don't know your situation but if you have an inferiority complex. I just wish you all the best with that. Even if you can't, just live as proudly as you can.

And don't write stupid posts like me.

Love and peace, everyone.

[Shinnomura]

I hope that was a Vash quote at the end ^^ lol
I'm glad to meet another person who can be opinionated without unnecessarily putting down others or their opinions.

[SteveCZ]

This topic (exactly the same Summoner topic) has already talked about and there were exactly the same flames inside.

Picking up an opinion thread will just keep bringing these people whether they are good, bad, smart ass, or hero wannabe. No mods, cause somehow it's okay to rage, flame and do character assassination in this forum.
This thread should be locked if the mods read and disagree with me.

You will definitely see them again if there's a post like this.

[Shinnomura]

Is the problem the topic or the people? I don't understand how locking this discussion would help with something those people will do on any thread.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with asking for opinions.

[arokidaaron]

Is the problem the topic or the people? I don't understand how locking this discussion would help with something those people will do on any thread.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with asking for opinions.

There's nothing wrong for asking for opinions. It's just that, it's becoming more of a flamewar where it gets rather personal rather than a proper discussion. The usual stuff you see here in this forum.

[Shinnomura]

Ah, I see. That makes sense. I've only ever seen a question turn into a conversation when it comes to forums, thought that was the intended format.

[SteveCZ]

Is the problem the topic or the people? I don't understand how locking this discussion would help with something those people will do on any thread.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with asking for opinions.

Like arokidaaron said, nothing wrong about asking opinions at all.
However, the topic has turned into fire and I just believe it's best if there's an action to take on.
But I think everyone has cooled down anyway, hopefully.

The conversation you (may be) hoping is a discussion, it's definitely different than debate. It's common to see these in game forum.

[vbetts]

I'm just gonna throw my thoughts in on Summoner class...

Summoner class is awesome. It's easy. Easy to raise up.

It's even easier to raise up if you have a decent sub class already at 75 to get the class started, then use the Su skill point to give more EXP to sub classes you want to raise up that aren't maxed out yet.

Summoner works with everything, sATK, rATK, tATK, Element bonus, you name it.

High level eggs drop like candy, and candy drops like candy too! :D

EASY EXP too once you can hit AQ. Run Urban 4/4 with a Su, pretty much guaranteed PSE burst. No joke, some teammates and I had a burst that lasted almost 40 minutes.

[NightfallG]

It's easy to raise up, but expensive to gear since you need good candies, especially pancakes.

[Shinguru]

It's easy to raise up, but expensive to gear since you need good candies, especially pancakes.

It's actually one of the easiest class to gear up

with less than 5mil i maxed out my Torim candy box along with 90% of my Sary one (i'm just missing a Magatsu parfait)

[Ryna]

I'm locking the thread since it has gone off-topic.