New p2w stuff

[MightyHarken]

What are your thoughts on the upcoming p2w elements? also what are your predictions on the future of PSO2? do you think people will get tired of it sooner or later and start leaving slowly but surely? Or just don't mind at all and keep playing as they do now?

[Anduril]

I am unclear as to what will be pay-to-win in upcoming content. Elaborate, please?

[Sakura1]

What Exactly is this pay2win Content you speak off

[AlphaBlob]

People here been confusing pay to win and pay to not wait so much.

[Cyber Meteor]

How the Star Gems shop or scratch is pay-to-win? :-? I mean, how being able to do an EQ outside of the schedule is pay-to-win?:-? (i guess it's about that:-P)

[MightyHarken]

How the Star Gems shop or scratch is pay-to-win? :-? I mean, how being able to do an EQ outside of the schedule is pay-to-win?:-? (i guess it's about that:-P)

It is about that, eqs will cost approximately 300sg. This may not mean much now, but I see it as the beginning of something much worse. IMO

[SasoriHanamura]

I don't see this as Pay to Win, it's more like Pay to do stuff sooner. Pay to Win faster, etc. But I doubt spending money is ever gonna give you an unfair advantage that can't be gained in a sensible manner through regular play.

[Altiea]

It's called Bribing Your Way to Victory (as a TV Troper); it's not gated behind paying, it's simply using money to get there faster. In addition, the EQ Trigger prices are so unfeasibly high that the amount of money you have to spend is too pricey to be worth it, and even if you do get a Trigger, you're still at the mercy of the RNG in terms of getting 13s you want. You could buy a bunch of triggers, but then that becomes whaling, which you do if you literally have nothing else besides food and water that you spend money on.

[sparab]

Spending real money for EQ is Pay to Lose. Perfect gear serves nothing better than babysitting pug casuals.

Let's just buy more wings instead.

[Anduril]

Seeing as most valuable items you would get from an EQ can't be sold or traded, I definitely wouldn't call that pay-to-win (in fact, I would be hard-pressed to find anything that could qualify as p2w in an exclusively PvE game). This is definitely just something directed at "whales" who want to play content on their own time and are more than willing to casually spend; plus, I'm assuming it would necessitate coordinating with multiple people to get the most out of it.

[AlphaBlob]

Only reason I can think of to get those EQ triggers is if you want to make events with your team.

[Shoterxx]

Not to mention we'll be getting free SG as daily rewards now. So atleast there's some use for SG, I don't mind at all.

[yukiyuki]

What pay 2 win?

Who are you winning against? There isn't any PvP content, there isn't any content that pits you against another player to the point that anyone would feel like they can't compete at the same level for gear. Excluding TA rankings which I don't really think alot of people take that seriously except for the really hardcore gamers.

With the current content, more people with better gear benefits everyone in your team/party so it's a win-win. It's the people that pay to get their end game gear faster and still suck skill-wise, due to the quick progress on gear and skipping many contents in between are the ones people will need to watch out for.

[Tenlade]

It is about that, eqs will cost approximately 300sg. This may not mean much now, but I see it as the beginning of something much worse. IMO

Every gimmick they've added so far eventually they just started handing out for free (see: scapedolls, 12* passes via titles, and bingos are now even handing out gathering refills and star gems)
Give it a few months and they'll start handing out EQ triggers as login campaigns.

[pkemr4]

it was already p2w because of whales doing AC scratch

[Z-0]

I think you guys need to stop arguing on the semantics on P2W.

When someone talks about P2W in PSO2, it's obviously being able to pay to progress faster than a free user. While this will always be the case, some of it rubs people the wrong way.

[CoWorker]

I won't consider this pay2win in any shape or form, its not like they get an instant 13* with 1 trigger...

But if you want REAL Pay2Win you should check SEA... Some of their costumes have huge affixes like +30% atk, +30% dark tech boost, BLACK HEART potential, +30% def and +100% rare drop boost.... ON 1 COSTUME, and they can just roll with it without high end gear cuz they just got carried by their costumes.... (And its affixes expire after a month so you need to buy a new one, either scratching for one or buy it for like 150m+

[FANSean]

I think you guys need to stop arguing on the semantics on P2W.

When someone talks about P2W in PSO2, it's obviously being able to pay to progress faster than a free user. While this will always be the case, some of it rubs people the wrong way.

This is true, but the semantics are also important because there's lines between "Paying can give you useful perks" and "Paying is vital to enjoy the game to the fullest extent" and "Paying is required to enjoy the game at all" And a lot of people wringing their hands over a lot of the Star Gem stuff have trouble making distinctions between the three.

The impact that EQ Triggers are going to have are purely speculative at this point until more details are revealed on their implementation (Do they just let you open up a quest for a 12 man party to join in on? Does it trigger the activation of the EQ for a 30 minute period for the entire ship? Or is it just to create a toned down 4-man version of the quest that has no rewards and is just intended as a 'for fun' experience?).

[SteveCZ]

I fail to see any P2W in PvE games like PSO2.

... So is this the reason why they start limiting the EQ runs!? *plot twist* :-o

[Yden]

So how will the triggers work? Will you need one trigger for a single group or will all the members need to use a trigger to access making you use up to 12 triggers?

[sparab]

EQ trigger works exactly like rare boss trigger, but the entire MPA will disband if the trigger user DC/abandon quest.

If I have to spend $15 I would buy 50 bag expansion instead of playing another TD4.

[Keilyn]

If You don't give me some sort of Advantage, there is no reason to spend AC or even buy a premium SET. Why should I buy a premium set if It doesn't give me some sort of advantage, even small? It makes no real difference..

People can Whine and Complain but that is how the F2P model works.
Yeah, people can argue about getting to the same point in different times...

But there is a difference between what a person working 40 hours a week, going to school 20 hours a week and getting to the same point in 100 hours than a player who plays 80 - 100 hours a week and doesn't go to school and lives in their mother's basement or cave all day long just playing...

The difference is...

A time comes when you pwn me at beating a map a faster than me.....
But I am capable of beating the map at a speed and form I like to beat...

...and unlike most of the people in this forum....I actually have the Masters Degree Clinched Already and I am already studying towards a Doctorate Degree... and let's be fair....

Doctorate Degrees exist because Doctorate Holders want to improve the field of the Doctorate one takes it in and truly become one of the best in the field on a Global Level. Less than 2% of the global population holds Doctorate Degrees in any area.....In my life there are two doctorates I am after...

So yes... that is the difference...
I pay my money.....I am able to have a real life, advance in it... and continue working towards it...Where by the end of my Life, hopefully sooner than later... I wish to be one of the best in the world in what I am after, not really for myself.... but for the millions out there I want to reach. My mission is personal...

Where as...refusal to pay means...
You get to play Twice to Three times longer to keep up to everyone else who does pay...and if you want to WIN against those dirty AC/Premium Set users.....You will have to sacrifice a lot to the point you will not be able to play many other games, be forced to MARRY one game...and even be forced to choose between advancing in life or using your freetime to advance in a game...just so you can be proud of yourself.

The Winners against me say "good game"
but when I walk the podium, I know the real game begins..
and when the darkness beyond the clouds clear to show the light beyond
I will realize that my final mission is complete..
and I will feel human again...

[Altiea]

If You don't give me some sort of Advantage, there is no reason to spend AC or even buy a premium SET. Why should I buy a premium set if It doesn't give me some sort of advantage, even small? It makes no real difference..

People can Whine and Complain but that is how the F2P model works.
Yeah, people can argue about getting to the same point in different times...

But there is a difference between what a person working 40 hours a week, going to school 20 hours a week and getting to the same point in 100 hours than a player who plays 80 - 100 hours a week and doesn't go to school and lives in their mother's basement or cave all day long just playing...

The difference is...

A time comes when you pwn me at beating a map a faster than me.....
But I am capable of beating the map at a speed and form I like to beat...

...and unlike most of the people in this forum....I actually have the Masters Degree Clinched Already and I am already studying towards a Doctorate Degree... and let's be fair....

Doctorate Degrees exist because Doctorate Holders want to improve the field of the Doctorate one takes it in and truly become one of the best in the field on a Global Level. Less than 2% of the global population holds Doctorate Degrees in any area.....In my life there are two doctorates I am after...

So yes... that is the difference...
I pay my money.....I am able to have a real life, advance in it... and continue working towards it...Where by the end of my Life, hopefully sooner than later... I wish to be one of the best in the world in what I am after, not really for myself.... but for the millions out there I want to reach. My mission is personal...

Where as...refusal to pay means...
You get to play Twice to Three times longer to keep up to everyone else who does pay...and if you want to WIN against those dirty AC/Premium Set users.....You will have to sacrifice a lot to the point you will not be able to play many other games, be forced to MARRY one game...and even be forced to choose between advancing in life or using your freetime to advance in a game...just so you can be proud of yourself.

The Winners against me say "good game"
but when I walk the podium, I know the real game begins..
and when the darkness beyond the clouds clear to show the light beyond
I will realize that my final mission is complete..
and I will feel human again...

I'm not quite sure this analogy exactly holds too much water (insert meme here), since, again, apples and oranges. There's spending in real life for practical means, then there's spending on a virtual game to have more fun sooner. One is socially and morally more acceptable than the other, not that it stops the latter party from doing it.

[milranduil]

If You don't give me some sort of Advantage, there is no reason to spend AC or even buy a premium SET. Why should I buy a premium set if It doesn't give me some sort of advantage, even small? It makes no real difference..

People can Whine and Complain but that is how the F2P model works.
Yeah, people can argue about getting to the same point in different times...

But there is a difference between what a person working 40 hours a week, going to school 20 hours a week and getting to the same point in 100 hours than a player who plays 80 - 100 hours a week and doesn't go to school and lives in their mother's basement or cave all day long just playing...

The difference is...

A time comes when you pwn me at beating a map a faster than me.....
But I am capable of beating the map at a speed and form I like to beat...

...and unlike most of the people in this forum....I actually have the Masters Degree Clinched Already and I am already studying towards a Doctorate Degree... and let's be fair....

Doctorate Degrees exist because Doctorate Holders want to improve the field of the Doctorate one takes it in and truly become one of the best in the field on a Global Level. Less than 2% of the global population holds Doctorate Degrees in any area.....In my life there are two doctorates I am after...

So yes... that is the difference...
I pay my money.....I am able to have a real life, advance in it... and continue working towards it...Where by the end of my Life, hopefully sooner than later... I wish to be one of the best in the world in what I am after, not really for myself.... but for the millions out there I want to reach. My mission is personal...

Where as...refusal to pay means...
You get to play Twice to Three times longer to keep up to everyone else who does pay...and if you want to WIN against those dirty AC/Premium Set users.....You will have to sacrifice a lot to the point you will not be able to play many other games, be forced to MARRY one game...and even be forced to choose between advancing in life or using your freetime to advance in a game...just so you can be proud of yourself.

The Winners against me say "good game"
but when I walk the podium, I know the real game begins..
and when the darkness beyond the clouds clear to show the light beyond
I will realize that my final mission is complete..
and I will feel human again...

no
5char

[Flaoc]

If You don't give me some sort of Advantage, there is no reason to spend AC or even buy a premium SET. Why should I buy a premium set if It doesn't give me some sort of advantage, even small? It makes no real difference..

People can Whine and Complain but that is how the F2P model works.
Yeah, people can argue about getting to the same point in different times...

But there is a difference between what a person working 40 hours a week, going to school 20 hours a week and getting to the same point in 100 hours than a player who plays 80 - 100 hours a week and doesn't go to school and lives in their mother's basement or cave all day long just playing...

The difference is...

A time comes when you pwn me at beating a map a faster than me.....
But I am capable of beating the map at a speed and form I like to beat...

...and unlike most of the people in this forum....I actually have the Masters Degree Clinched Already and I am already studying towards a Doctorate Degree... and let's be fair....

Doctorate Degrees exist because Doctorate Holders want to improve the field of the Doctorate one takes it in and truly become one of the best in the field on a Global Level. Less than 2% of the global population holds Doctorate Degrees in any area.....In my life there are two doctorates I am after...

So yes... that is the difference...
I pay my money.....I am able to have a real life, advance in it... and continue working towards it...Where by the end of my Life, hopefully sooner than later... I wish to be one of the best in the world in what I am after, not really for myself.... but for the millions out there I want to reach. My mission is personal...

Where as...refusal to pay means...
You get to play Twice to Three times longer to keep up to everyone else who does pay...and if you want to WIN against those dirty AC/Premium Set users.....You will have to sacrifice a lot to the point you will not be able to play many other games, be forced to MARRY one game...and even be forced to choose between advancing in life or using your freetime to advance in a game...just so you can be proud of yourself.

The Winners against me say "good game"
but when I walk the podium, I know the real game begins..
and when the darkness beyond the clouds clear to show the light beyond
I will realize that my final mission is complete..
and I will feel human again...

tl;dr

[TaigaUC]

SEGA knows people like to cosplay as the NPCs and Falzes and such.
Notice they often have popular character voices locked behind paywalls like "buy this CD" or "buy this limited edition version".
That's the real reason they do those "character popularity polls".
And that's why the Falz stuff is SG only. People have been begging for it for ages.

So from now on, any time you see huge demand for something, expect it to be locked behind SG.

You can probably take some guesses.
Unbind 13 stars = Star Gems.
Change colors of normally unchangeable outfits = Star Gems.
Change weapon colors = Star Gems.

Stuff like that. It's not pay2win but it's still annoying.

I've only briefly talked to two JP friends about it, and they are not pleased.
Let's not forget it's only been a few months since they added Star Gems and they're already tying them to so many things.
Yes, PSO2 always had microtransactions, but it feels like Star Gems are more "invasive", if you know what I mean.
I'm sure it's only going to get much worse from here on out.
They seem to think that PS4 release + fancier graphics guarantees microtransactions.
It's the opposite for me. Now I don't want to pay them at all.

It's funny, I expected episode 4 to renew my interest in PSO2, but instead it's almost completely killed it.
As far as I'm concerned, episode 4 has been a disastrous trainwreck. Obviously not everyone will agree with me.
I can't help but think Maenara was right for jumping ship before it sank.


Edit:
This looks like a list of stuff you can recycle/exchange.
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image.php?id=82843

AQ stones -> Star Gems. Yuck. I hate AQ.
The laughable thing is exchanging +2 Risk and 30% success for "Good" Gathering tools (which are completely useless).
Also, guaranteed skipping 5 levels will now become a 50% chance to gain more EXP. Good job.

[wefwq]

It's more like "pay to get shit done faster".
Free players still do just fine, but need more time to catch up with the one who paid money.

or are thinking that unable to receive cosmetic stuff that locked behind AC considered as losing in-game.

Oh speaking of paid content, let's not forget PSO2es.
The simulation thing, you can run 1 time a day for free, but you can pay AC for more (with increased rate and item slot even).

[Z-0]

The issue with Star Gems, as TaigaUC says, is that it sets a bad precedent, especially with what they're tying them to.

The draw of F2P games is that you can get stuff done by just playing, but you can accelerate by paying money (mostly for people who work or whatever). The issue with Star Gems is that you can't get stuff done by "just playing", you only get Star Gems by waiting for them and a bit of luck. You're not whaling on PSO2 and want to get an untradeable outfit? Maybe in 50 days, and this is completely out of your control. EQ triggers now implemented for people who might miss EQs due to responsibilities! But only if you have the extra money to buy them, maybe you'll be able to play an extra one every 2 to 3 weeks.

Practically, Star Gems is only an "extra", but it rubs people the wrong way because of how they're most likely going to be handled in the future, and a game isn't supposed to be unfair in this manner if you're not constantly shelling cash on it. The main issue here (other than the Star Gem concept in general) is that Star Gems are such low frequency it's absurd. Even with 1 SG per day or whatever, it's still going to take a REALLY long time to get to where you want, but someone can pay a bit of money and get exactly what you want in a day or two.

I can't help but feel like people defend SEGA's decisions on these forums just for the sake of defending PSO2. You are allowed to have "negative" opinions and still like the game, you know.

@ Taiga

That's not a recycle list, those are changes to the login stamp cards.

[Tenlade]

The issue with Star Gems, as TaigaUC says, is that it sets a bad precedent, especially with what they're tying them to.

The draw of F2P games is that you can get stuff done by just playing, but you can accelerate by paying money (mostly for people who work or whatever). The issue with Star Gems is that you can't get stuff done by "just playing", you only get Star Gems by waiting for them and a bit of luck. You're not whaling on PSO2 and want to get an untradeable outfit? Maybe in 50 days, and this is completely out of your control. EQ triggers now implemented for people who might miss EQs due to responsibilities! But only if you have the extra money to buy them, maybe you'll be able to play an extra one every 2 to 3 weeks.

Practically, Star Gems is only an "extra", but it rubs people the wrong way because of how they're most likely going to be handled in the future, and a game isn't supposed to be unfair in this manner if you're not constantly shelling cash on it. The main issue here (other than the Star Gem concept in general) is that Star Gems are such low frequency it's absurd. Even with 1 SG per day or whatever, it's still going to take a REALLY long time to get to where you want, but someone can pay a bit of money and get exactly what you want in a day or two.

I can't help but feel like people defend SEGA's decisions on these forums just for the sake of defending PSO2. You are allowed to have "negative" opinions and still like the game, you know.

@ Taiga

That's not a recycle list, those are changes to the login stamp cards.

Any of the arguments made on star gems could and already was made with AC at launch and premium sets (remember when only premium players could buy 10★ weapons? anyone remember how they literally let you spend 500 ac a day to just dice roll for ult weapons on es?) The precedent has always been there, and to be quite frank im kind of sick of everyone thinking the sky is falling with every AC thing they add because its totally these star gems that are gonna let the whales just walk to victory.
*guy with premium gets in full block for eq, uses rare boost drink to increase his chances and he gets a 13*, then buys +30 12★ to grind it within seconds, and if he's short of cash he'll just do the AC scratch and sell it for money*

[Altiea]

5 Star Gems a day doesn't sound THAT bad. We lose the Stones, but then again no one plays AQ besides me anyways... Losing the old Grinding stuff for the new Grind/Gathering stuff is a bit of a letdown, though.

[FANSean]

I admit that sometimes I come off as over defensive to PSO2 but this is because the overwhelming negativity towards the game becomes a drain to the point that I don't want to interact with the community anymore for the sake of my own mental health.

Let's not forget just about every single thing regarding Episode 4 being wildly blown out of proportion before further information quelled those thoughts

The plot? People thought it was literally "You were the video games all along" until people who could actually translate figured out that it was a little more complicated than that.

When summoner was released? People thought Candies could permabreak on failed grind.

Gathering? People decried the use of AC Pickaxes before people figured out how much the food boosts (Plus the drop rate for them is good enough that using AC on Pickaxes sounds hilariously not-worth-it)

When Star Gems were announced? People thought Pet Feed cooldowns were being increased to make people need to use them more.

I'd honestly bet money that triggers are going to work in such a way that the star gem price is not nearly the kind of detriment people think it'll be. But that's all complete speculation and thinking of the worst case scenario at all times is just plain unhealthy.

[[Ayumi]]

it was already p2w because of whales doing AC scratch

Okay, can someone tell me what wales mean in this term?

[wefwq]

;3357642']Okay, can someone tell me what wales mean in this term?
Something like people who blew out big sums of real money for paid content.

[Tenlade]

;3357642']Okay, can someone tell me what wales mean in this term?

basically people who get addicted to online games and spends large amounts of cash.

the game dev youtube series named Extra Credits has a few videos on the problems with f2p models
older one but most relevent to this thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U

as far as things go for exploitive f2p practices, pso2 is particularly not that extremely exploitive.

[jooozek]

im surprised people are defending this kind of garbage when the EQ pool is so dilluted with quests and some not even being able to show up randomly plus you can make a trigger MPA - 6 EQs worth of TD4? how long do you think it will take before you'd see them pop up normally? also don't hope you'll get to the amount of gems needed for even 1 trigger by just daily login since bingo was giving like what, 10 star gems?

[Meteor Weapon]

Inc trade 1 Excube for 1 Gems....lel

[Atmius]

remember when only premium players could buy 10★ weapons?
That's still the case though, because you still require a 10* pass which can only be acquired if you're premium.

[Korazenn]

I'm gonna quote myself from a previous post I made on another topic here:


It's more of a marketing scheme to get "all" people (not just new players) more focused on participating in EQs and grinding so that they see the limits/cool-downs and start buying into the AC/Star Gem craze to speed up the game even more. Ever wondered why the tutorial mission now drops a rare at the end? Or how about that 15,000 EXP Ticket you start with? The introduction of "NT" weapons? It's to give all people more incentive to jump straight into the EQ simulation than play and enjoy the rest of the game at their own pace. The latter doesn't make enough money for SEGA, and they noticed that with Episode 3 (which added a dearth of new content you could honestly enjoy freely).

All F2P/B2P MMOs & Online RPGs do it nowadays. It's a simple-but-proven method that just works better for these game models. Most people never even take notice of the subliminal messaging in the woodwork, but I do guess you have to be pretty analytical to notice such trends in the first place.

No side in this argument is right or wrong, as a result.

Nothing has changed since the game's launch with how monetization is conducted. We have always had three options when it comes to newer forms of monetization and in-game money the developers add into it:

1- You can acknowledge the fact that it is a money-making scheme and choose to simply ignore it all, continuing to enjoy the game at your own pace and not having it affect you. After all, you got other things to do with your time, like playing other games out there or personal stuff in life, right? Right.

2- You don't feel like it affects the game much, but you do think it will improve the flow in the future for you (even if not right now) so you will still buy into it if ever the need arises. After all, it's a free successor to a game that used to charge you monthly to play it, after you had already purchased it in full (PSOBB). Back then, people scoffed at that idea, too; they still do now, as a matter of fact. "You mean I have to pay each month to play a game I've already bought?!"

3- You might also just consider just quitting the game or going on hiatus until things work out. Believe it or not, SEGA does know when players who used to be very active on the scene suddenly stop playing the game (i.e. daily/weekly/monthly/yearly average user statistics, how long each person plays the game in a session, etc.), and it does send them red flags that they have to act on, too, when things aren't looking good. Remember: At the end of the day, consumers talk with where they spend their money and time.

[blkbox11]

Where as...refusal to pay means...
You get to play Twice to Three times longer to keep up to everyone else who does pay...and if you want to WIN against those dirty AC/Premium Set users.....You will have to sacrifice a lot to the point you will not be able to play many other games, be forced to MARRY one game...and even be forced to choose between advancing in life or using your freetime to advance in a game...just so you can be proud of yourself.

It's nowhere near that bad. Winning against premium players isn't very hard at all. Most free players who know what they're doing and how to contribute to EQs have probably done so already without noticing it, especially against premium players who just pay for costumes and don't DPS-affix their gear.

Of course, this applies if you consider 'winning' to be rankings in TD or DPS measurements. That's the only thing close to actual competition that this game has.

[Imca]

I am kind of curious as to one major thing about the EQ trigers...

A party can only have 4 people, I cant think of an EQ that would be posible with 4 avrage people....


Ummmm, how exactly will the triggers allow for 12 people to work?

[FANSean]

Theoretically they could put the EQs up at the quest counter and then you need to use a trigger to participate in the quest like a bonus key. That's probably the worst case scenario for how these are used.

Alternatively, one person uses the trigger to open up the quest and then a multiparty can join from the counter. This is probably what is most likely to happen since it's closest to how rare enemy triggers work.

Last thing I could think of is a person on the server using the trigger to initiate an EQ effect for the entire ship for a 30 minute span. This would be the most optimistic outcome for the system but also be the hardest to implement without imposing some kind of restrictions on their use and also the least likely occurrence because then the 80ish star gem tag becomes too generous at that point. (Then again if you're trying to attract whales specifically....)

[pkemr4]

Inc trade 1 Excube for 1 Gems....lel

trade 400k meseta for 1 excube :-?

[sparab]

trade 400k meseta for 1 excube :-?

400k meseta = 4SG


Inc trade 1 Excube for 1 Gems....lel

Awesome.

[ArcaneTechs]

only managed page 3 before wall-o-text, maybe next time

Really be a good time for people to just drop this game for awhile, it's just going downhill further and further

[otakun]

People complain that they can't do EQs whenever they want to do them to set them up more standard MMO raid sytle and now someone claims P2W. Really? they are giving away 13*s like candy with this new collection sheet system and you think people paying out the ass will break the game somehow? Which in a PvE game only helps casuals. Find something else to complain about.

[TaigaUC]

The whole point is shit like EQs shouldn't even be random/scheduled nonsense.
PSO2 suffers from severe lack of interesting gameplay modes. An issue that, from what I've heard, did not plague previous Phantasy Star games as much.
It's also arguably some of the easiest content they could add. Design a new mode, use existing assets... bam, done.
Yes, previous games were subscription-based, but even if you buy PSO2's premium and star gems and all that crap, it doesn't add any gameplay depth.
It just makes the game a little less irritating. You are PAYING to make the game LESS IRRITATING. Not MORE FUN.
Less irritating, as in less time-consuming. Because modern games are designed to waste tons of time unless you pony up some cash.

It's really a matter of giving people the option of paying to skip stuff they don't like.
Which, in theory, is fine. More options is good, right?
The problem is games nowadays are intentionally designed to be around 95% annoying, 5% fun.
Wanna enjoy the 5% fun? Give us more cash.

Next we'll have stuff like Capcom charging $2 per attempt to fight secret bosses like True Akuma.
I remember when stuff like that had special hidden codes instead of a microtransaction cost.

When Double Dragon 3 came out in arcades, you had to pay real money for move scrolls, items and shit like that.
People were used to paying for continues, but nobody wanted to pay for special attacks and shit. That system died a horrible death.
But now the same shit is widely accepted everywhere.
I guess it shows that if you keep pushing the same shit long enough, people will bend over and embrace it.
Kinda like Windows 10 installing itself everywhere without permission.



That's not a recycle list, those are changes to the login stamp cards.

:/
I really like the skip 5 levels item. Damn them.

It's even more stupid because they didn't apply the NT changes retroactively.
"Hey, let's add this new NT system, not update the old stuff, and then replace reward systems to only benefit NT!"
Fk off, SEGA. Tons of old stuff still drops everywhere too. Grr.


I get that a lot of people here have only played PSO2 a short while, and are enjoying it.
Which is good. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you have fun.

At the same time, there are people like me who have been playing for around 4 years and are seeing the game go down the shitter.
Obviously, we will all get tired of the game at some point. Or the game will close its servers permanently.
But that doesn't mean the game couldn't be better while it's still up.
The fact that SEGA keeps pulling this shit also shows that if they do make a sequel, it will be more of the same, or worse.

There aren't many games like PSO2 that have this level of character customization together with decent real action gameplay.
So there's no point saying, go play something else. There aren't other options.
JP people have been saying that since the beginning: "PSO2 is only popular because it has no competition".
If there are such games, they are usually tied behind even nastier pay walls.
PSO2 is heading in the same direction, which is legitimate cause for concern.

Pointing out and addressing negatives leads to improvement.
Look at all the things we have around us today. Everyone's spoiled by fancy inventions that made life easier.
How do you think people were motivated to create those things? By focusing on and addressing negatives, to achieve positives.
Do you think all these creations were invented by people who turned a blind eye and wanted to pretend the world is perfect as is?
I can't speak for everyone, but I want stuff to be better. That's why I complain.
And yes, I know SEGA doesn't read these forums. But I've written the same shit in the survey, as have other people I know.
There are also the reviews and comments on the stream. You can tell a lot of people are not quite pleased, although a lot of them keep playing anyway.
SEGA can't pretend to be ignorant of the issues. They're intentionally screwing us against our will.

Here's something I noticed in the last stream that bugged me.
As far as I can recall, when Kimura apologizes for their screwups, he doesn't bow his head or anything like that.
He kinda just tries to get through the apologies and stuff quickly, so he can move onto new announcements of shit nobody asked for.
Knowing Japanese culture, the way he does that strikes me as insincere. It doesn't really feel like an apology to me.
As in, SEGA doesn't really feel sorry about screwing up. But then, that could just be my impression.

I understand that a lot of people, especially younger generations, can't imagine how things could be better, because they haven't seen better.
When I complain about stuff, it's not just baseless whining. I speak with knowledge and experience in mind.
I compare with stuff I've seen done better elsewhere. I know for a fact that things could be better.
There's a quote I once read, and it's very true: "knowledge of a better world will only hurt".
Yes, I could just ignore everything and pretend it's all fine. But I don't like to do that.
I also have a low tolerance for poor design in general.

I also understand that people already deal with enough shit in their lives and just want to get away and be happy for a little.
That's fine too. You don't have to read my whining and stuff. I don't write this stuff with the intent to pull anyone down.
By all means, enjoy your experience and have fun.
But please don't try to deny actual issues just because you're afraid of having your fun ruined.
I don't think acknowledging issues necessarily means you can't enjoy the parts that aren't messed up.

[Zorak000]

What are your thoughts on the upcoming p2w elements? also what are your predictions on the future of PSO2? do you think people will get tired of it sooner or later and start leaving slowly but surely? Or just don't mind at all and keep playing as they do now?

it'll work out as well as the previous p2w elements did

[SteveCZ]

...
If there are such games, they are usually tied behind even nastier pay walls.
...

Pay walls. That's the better term. May wanna use this instead of P2W for this game from now on. :D

[[Ayumi]]

The whole point is shit like EQs shouldn't even be random/scheduled nonsense.
This I completely agree with.


PSO2 suffers from severe lack of interesting gameplay modes. An issue that, from what I've heard, did not plague previous Phantasy Star games as much.
Yes, previous games were subscription-based, but even if you buy PSO2's premium and star gems and all that crap, it doesn't add any gameplay depth.
It just makes the game a little less irritating. You are PAYING to make the game LESS IRRITATING. Not MORE FUN.
Less irritating, as in less time-consuming. Because modern games are designed to waste tons of time unless you pony up some cash.

I guess I' might be the only one that see no problem with the gameplay modes in PSO2 and think I have enough things in it to keep me occupied.


It's really a matter of giving people the option of paying to skip stuff they don't like.
Which, in theory, is fine. More options is good, right?
The problem is games nowadays are intentionally designed to be around 95% annoying, 5% fun.
Wanna enjoy the 5% fun? Give us more cash.

Which is why in the last year or so (minus some Wii U and 3DS games), I've bought.... nothing really except for some Wii U and 3DS games.
Seeing nothing interesting over the years and most of it is just cashcows which pisses me off... or from companies that I have on my blacklist I would never buy a game from again... like Crapcom.



Next we'll have stuff like Capcom charging $2 per attempt to fight secret bosses like True Akuma.
I remember when stuff like that had special hidden codes instead of a microtransaction cost.

One of the many reasons they're on my blacklist.


When Double Dragon 3 came out in arcades, you had to pay real money for move scrolls, items and shit like that.
People were used to paying for continues, but nobody wanted to pay for special attacks and shit. That system died a horrible death.
But now the same shit is widely accepted everywhere.
I guess it shows that if you keep pushing the same shit long enough, people will bend over and embrace it.
No, it's not about pushing the same shit long enough. It's waiting for the right idiots to fall for it in a pile.
Ever heard of stories of kids not knowing what they're doing on those phone games and "accidently" spend thousands of dollars because their parent's credit card was on the phone and they didn't know they were spending real money?

Or the ones that DO know and go "oh... it's just $1... it just $2... it's not a lot" not knowing that yha it's $1 or $2, but when there is hundreds of tiny shit you need to get.... it adds up and those fucking games you probably spent $60 on is now becoming a $300+ game.
A lot of the newer generation fall for this microtransaction and season pass bullshit which is why it's allowed now.


Kinda like Windows 10 installing itself everywhere without permission.

Can't relate. I've always turned off windows updates because of shit like that.
Will never have Windows 10 on any computer (unless in the far future I will have no choice and forced to have it.... until then though...)




:/
I really like the skip 5 levels item. Damn them.

It's even more stupid because they didn't apply the NT changes retroactively.
"Hey, let's add this new NT system, not update the old stuff, and then replace reward systems to only benefit NT!"
Fk off, SEGA. Tons of old stuff still drops everywhere too. Grr.

Yeah, when I heard this, it pissed me off too. I really like/need those grind skips as I'm not spending money on grind skip 7s.... and I don't like the NT weapons at all.
Thought the Star Gems change for the AQ stones wasn't bad as I never.... really had a use for the AQ stones, but the grind skip... no. Just no...



I get that a lot of people here have only played PSO2 a short while, and are enjoying it.
Which is good. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you have fun.

At the same time, there are people like me who have been playing for around 4 years and are seeing the game go down the shitter.

I honestly think it hasn't gotten too bad until EP4 popped up, but yeah it's not as it was since closed beta.


Obviously, we will all get tired of the game at some point. Or the game will close its servers permanently.
But that doesn't mean the game couldn't be better while it's still up.
The fact that SEGA keeps pulling this shit also shows that if they do make a sequel, it will be more of the same, or worse.

I don't know. PSO DC was good, GC did better, EP3 wasn't bad (many didn't like it, but I enjoyed it), BB I barely touched, but did not like EP4 at all, PSU I thought was horrible, PSP2/PSP2i was a push to the right direction though which then PSO2 was like a revamped PSP2/PSP2i.

So I say it's been a slope for Sega and PS since PSO... but that's just me. MAYBE the next one won't be as bad? Who knows.

OH! I almost forgot PS0 had online on it. That one wasn't too bad either.



There aren't many games like PSO2 that have this level of character customization together with decent real action gameplay.
So there's no point saying, go play something else. There aren't other options.
JP people have been saying that since the beginning: "PSO2 is only popular because it has no competition".
If there are such games, they are usually tied behind even nastier pay walls.
PSO2 is heading in the same direction, which is legitimate cause for concern.

If PSO2 does get to that point, I think the game would just slowly die and Sega would be forced to work on a new one. Which as I said earlier COULD be a good or bad thing.



Here's something I noticed in the last stream that bugged me.
As far as I can recall, when Kimura apologizes for their screwups, he doesn't bow his head or anything like that.
He kinda just tries to get through the apologies and stuff quickly, so he can move onto new announcements of shit nobody asked for.
Knowing Japanese culture, the way he does that strikes me as insincere. It doesn't really feel like an apology to me.
As in, SEGA doesn't really feel sorry about screwing up. But then, that could just be my impression.

I've never watched the streams, so I'm not sure which you mean... but that doesn't really surprise me. Somewhat of a damage control to try and say something the people want to hear and quickly throwing it under the rug, then rushing to stuff hoping people would eat up.
Seen people (and yes, companies too) pretty much do that shit.
You know what? It works.

Like, I haven't bought a WB game since I think Arkham City, but I did hear the 2nd to last BAtman I think (or maybe the last one) for PC they said they wasn't going to fix problems but that they were sorry BUT DLC was coming up? I think I remember hearing this.
The thing is... they're still making games and still a business, especially in PC games. So... why would it different for Sega right now when they see that they can do the same and people wil still play?
I also think that Sega is doing this around the new players (mainly PS4 players) and hope they can sucker them in that this is normal while not caring what the older players think. IF the newer players eat up this star gem bullshit and other crap... that mean they can do even more damage to the game and the new players will accept it and still bring others to play too.

This goes back to once again as you said about how games trying to nickel and dime players now. They did it with the older crowd... they didn't like it. Did it to the newer ones to see if they fall for it aaaaaaaaaaaaand they did. "Good! Keep it up! Do more damage! They will accept it! Fuck the older gamers!"

[Altiea]

Next we'll have stuff like Capcom charging $2 per attempt to fight secret bosses like True Akuma.
I remember when stuff like that had special hidden codes instead of a microtransaction cost.

Call me overtly optimistic, but I'm fairly certain that we're good as long as Monster Hunter remains completely microtransaction free, which it has despite the advent of DLC. The day they start charging for MH DLC is the day Capcom crosses a line. (Not that they would ever need to; just selling the base game is Capcom's rainmaker alone.)

[Lumpen Thingy]

Call me overtly optimistic, but I'm fairly certain that we're good as long as Monster Hunter remains completely microtransaction free, which it has despite the advent of DLC. The day they start charging for MH DLC is the day Capcom crosses a line. (Not that they would ever need to; just selling the base game is Capcom's rainmaker alone.)

have you not seen the new f2p one coming to PC? lmao

[kurokyosuke]

have you not seen the new f2p one coming to PC? lmao

Anything that goes wrong with MHO I'll blame more on China than Capcom, since MHF is pay2play and (although still Japan only) still relevant.

[Keilyn]

Not a bad post, but I will reply to each part. ^_^



The whole point is shit like EQs shouldn't even be random/scheduled nonsense.
PSO2 suffers from severe lack of interesting gameplay modes. An issue that, from what I've heard, did not plague previous Phantasy Star games as much.
It's also arguably some of the easiest content they could add. Design a new mode, use existing assets... bam, done.
Yes, previous games were subscription-based, but even if you buy PSO2's premium and star gems and all that crap, it doesn't add any gameplay depth.
It just makes the game a little less irritating. You are PAYING to make the game LESS IRRITATING. Not MORE FUN.
Less irritating, as in less time-consuming. Because modern games are designed to waste tons of time unless you pony up some cash.

I've argued in the past and people had shot me down. Instead of making a PS4 version, or a Vita Version... or even Phantasy Star Nova... they could have focused a lot more on actually making content and designing the game. This is what separates American, European, Korean, and Japanese MMOs.

I can play WoW or GW2 and at least know that its the PC itself that is supported and no other platform. The same is true for European and Korean MMOs. Play a Japanese Singleplayer Game, RPG, or MMORPG, and their companies do all possible to get you into buying every major Japanese Console and Handheld out there to follow a series...


It's really a matter of giving people the option of paying to skip stuff they don't like.
Which, in theory, is fine. More options is good, right?
The problem is games nowadays are intentionally designed to be around 95% annoying, 5% fun.
Wanna enjoy the 5% fun? Give us more cash.

PSO-2 is amazing to a new player and how far they can explore and advance, but its brutal and unforgiving to an End-Game player in terms of how dead-end it is and the remaining gear grind. At least the Gear Grind in a P2P game has a strong reasons, but in PSO-2 that reason is annihilated when the next EQ is made so that Newbs have just as much chance as Veteran Players.

When a casual game is made in the F2P genre, it truly means dealing with the masses. You can be like me, running around with an IQ over 170 and academic degrees I've slaved for, but it won't matter to a company when for every thing I say or do, 100 - 1000 players are all disagreeing with me. Money Talks and since I can't pay for the 1000 players who are willing to pay, it means my argument is irrelevant considering the company wants money from those players....and will continue to support those players..

F2P means that Newbs due to numbers have more rights as a collective than Veteran players...Sorry, its true. The genre is known for having the retention of toilet paper and your punishment for being loyal is being subjected to garbage every time SEGA opens its mouth.



Next we'll have stuff like Capcom charging $2 per attempt to fight secret bosses like True Akuma.
I remember when stuff like that had special hidden codes instead of a microtransaction cost.

When Double Dragon 3 came out in arcades, you had to pay real money for move scrolls, items and shit like that.
People were used to paying for continues, but nobody wanted to pay for special attacks and shit. That system died a horrible death.
But now the same shit is widely accepted everywhere.
I guess it shows that if you keep pushing the same shit long enough, people will bend over and embrace it.

Something worse already happened.
Games being released with 99% of the content unlocked and the remaining 1% is locked content given to people who buy the game from certain vendors..."Power to the players!!!"


Kinda like Windows 10 installing itself everywhere without permission.

Can you prove this?
I was always asked for Permission when upgrading.





:/
My thoughts exactly...



I really like the skip 5 levels item. Damn them.

It's even more stupid because they didn't apply the NT changes retroactively.
"Hey, let's add this new NT system, not update the old stuff, and then replace reward systems to only benefit NT!"
Fk off, SEGA. Tons of old stuff still drops everywhere too. Grr.

I use the old stuff crafted in my build so No... Wouldn't want to wake up and find my crafted stuff gone bye bye. :(



I get that a lot of people here have only played PSO2 a short while, and are enjoying it.
Which is good. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you have fun.

At the same time, there are people like me who have been playing for around 4 years and are seeing the game go down the shitter.
Obviously, we will all get tired of the game at some point. Or the game will close its servers permanently.
But that doesn't mean the game couldn't be better while it's still up.
The fact that SEGA keeps pulling this shit also shows that if they do make a sequel, it will be more of the same, or worse.

SEGA did this in PSU
SEGA is doing this in PSO-2...

The focus is about appealing to new players FIRST
Caring about Long Term Players Second....

If I was a company, why should I care about one player whining a complaining when the casual market can have 100 - 1000 players come in daily...along with their money? Why would I send an Agent to address your claim when the satisfaction rate to casual players is far easier to reach.... and sure, when the casual base starts reaching endgame...and becomes like you..

Why do I need to address them?
Considering that when Casual becomes Veteran and starts whining and complaining... I will still have 100 - 1000 players coming in...and the Veterans who whine in forum boards are still giving me their money through AC out of loyalty and the belief that change will come.....

You would be giving me your money, yet bitching and complaining at how fucked up I am....but how can I believe with a straight-face that you are in disagreement if you are still supporting my product, and other products created by the same company by wasting time addressing it in forums?


There aren't many games like PSO2 that have this level of character customization together with decent real action gameplay.
So there's no point saying, go play something else. There aren't other options.
JP people have been saying that since the beginning: "PSO2 is only popular because it has no competition".
If there are such games, they are usually tied behind even nastier pay walls.
PSO2 is heading in the same direction, which is legitimate cause for concern.

PSO-2 has its weaknesses...
and once people realize the weaknesses behind the action-combat system that this game has...

You find why MMORPGs and other Action Games limit their action in a certain way to avoid problems like you know...... like destroying enemies and bosses 20+ levels higher than you. Also, PSO-2 is like other Action-Oriented Online Games in which everything depends on SPAMMING Skills.....




Pointing out and addressing negatives leads to improvement.
Look at all the things we have around us today. Everyone's spoiled by fancy inventions that made life easier.
How do you think people were motivated to create those things? By focusing on and addressing negatives, to achieve positives.
Do you think all these creations were invented by people who turned a blind eye and wanted to pretend the world is perfect as is?

A lot of invention comes out of desperation and a will to live as well. Addressing Negatives is a good way, but when the negatives pointed out by individuals are judged against the negatives pointed by others...rather than simply accepting what the negatives are and addressing them... it becomes a bias in itself.

I wonder if the negatives people wish to address are truly to improve the game itself, or to actually make the game easier for a select few. I remember in game-balancing, I would patch stuff to old games and the community would HATE me for patching the cheats that they depended their skill on.


I can't speak for everyone, but I want stuff to be better. That's why I complain.
And yes, I know SEGA doesn't read these forums. But I've written the same shit in the survey, as have other people I know.
There are also the reviews and comments on the stream. You can tell a lot of people are not quite pleased, although a lot of them keep playing anyway.
SEGA can't pretend to be ignorant of the issues. They're intentionally screwing us against our will.

If I thought your posting was absolute shit, I would not have bothered to read and reply....

When Conventional People hate a person, they flame and harass the person until they bend the person's will to pieces. When people who are truly smart absolutely hate a person, they deny their abilities and existence to that individual. They will not reply, they will not care... and will not even contribute into the fact. Pushed even further, they would become enemies...

SEGA is SEGA
They have a History of doing what they do..
...I accepted it long ago..

Rather than try to Solo-Fight a war that can only be won on a Collective Level, I play multiple games and make sure I have fun doing it. If I mentally say "OMG this is boring!" I play something else and try to salvage the night.

Also, PSO-2 is Dungeon Crawling/Action Combat...
but there are plenty of games out being released that are Action Combat, but its not as FREE as PSO-2 because if it were....it would be like Challenge Mode where a bunch of characters with limited equipment at level 20 - 30 destroy a Max-Level Ultimate Mode EndBoss.....




Here's something I noticed in the last stream that bugged me.
As far as I can recall, when Kimura apologizes for their screwups, he doesn't bow his head or anything like that.
He kinda just tries to get through the apologies and stuff quickly, so he can move onto new announcements of shit nobody asked for.
Knowing Japanese culture, the way he does that strikes me as insincere. It doesn't really feel like an apology to me.
As in, SEGA doesn't really feel sorry about screwing up. But then, that could just be my impression.

Because SEGA is NOT screwing up.
They are proceeding AS PLANNED...

....Screw Over the Minority who stick around
.........Bring in the Majority who have money to give to the company...

Simple Math...



I understand that a lot of people, especially younger generations, can't imagine how things could be better, because they haven't seen better.
When I complain about stuff, it's not just baseless whining. I speak with knowledge and experience in mind.
I compare with stuff I've seen done better elsewhere. I know for a fact that things could be better.
There's a quote I once read, and it's very true: "knowledge of a better world will only hurt".
Yes, I could just ignore everything and pretend it's all fine. But I don't like to do that.
I also have a low tolerance for poor design in general.

Seems to me you are having a falling out.
Maybe what you need is to see how all other genres have evolved by actually spending time in them and not hearing opinions about them.

Your eyes will be opened at how immersive things have become.

One thing I've learned from people who play PSO-2 is that while the game is designed to LOG IN, do your Daily Orders/Featured Quests...(if you care) and once a week run your TACOs.... and spend your time around EQs... you know.. a game that can be played by people who have very short time to game...

...A lot of people try to play a game that is supposed to be short, for 8 - 16 hours a day. While many try to justify spending 8 - 16 hours a day in PSO-2 through their fast Time Attacks and EPIC EQUIPMENT, it also creates the argument of "If you have 8 - 16 hours a day to play a game..... isnt that what pure MMORPGs are all about? Time-Sinking and running around with Guilds and working together?"

I believe that the reason why people dedicate themselves to PSO-2 is because you can SOLO in the game and use AC to scratch for MESETA and then declare how great you are to the few who play this game compared to others. In short, I believe that the SUPREME DEDICATED to PSO-2 are people who are incapable of cutting it in a real game...or its people who have truly survived real games who have survived just what it truly takes....


I also understand that people already deal with enough shit in their lives and just want to get away and be happy for a little.
That's fine too. You don't have to read my whining and stuff. I don't write this stuff with the intent to pull anyone down.
By all means, enjoy your experience and have fun.
But please don't try to deny actual issues just because you're afraid of having your fun ruined.
I don't think acknowledging issues necessarily means you can't enjoy the parts that aren't messed up.

Not a bad ending to your post.

The GREATEST and WORSE experiences one can feel in gaming will not be felt in PSO-2 :

You won't know what it feels like to see your faction or side, on the verge of defeat.... just to call your guild, friends and anyone for defense...and then through yourself rally the server against an enemy....who after a long battle... like in stuff of legends... one actually turns the tide and wins the war... ^_^ However, by the same token you will never truly knows what it feels to drop the ball and know that everyone lost because of you....

To be treated with Kid-Gloves means to be safe from harm, but it also means to be sheltered from real choices and real difficulties that affect not only you, but others around you. PSO-2 is great if you want to be treated with Kid-Gloves for a while.

[Altiea]

have you not seen the new f2p one coming to PC? lmao

That one's just officially sanctioned by Capcom, they aren't the ones handling it. I was talking about main series games, not spinoffs.