Official statement from SEGA on parsing tools

[Aine]

http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=9224

SEGA has finally acknowledged the existence of damage parsing tools. They are implementing countermeasures against these tools, but they warn that if they find people using them in the future they may ban accounts without warning for cheating.

[Xaeris]

Fair warning is fair, but it's a silly policy to begin with. If they're concerned about toxicity arising from the use of parsers (a fair concern), then punish that behavior, not the tool.

Oh well, no more beating it to Zanverse deeps I guess. It's interesting that this comes shortly after revamped PD though. I guess 2ch has been a salt mine the past week?

[Z-0]

Because it will definitely come up, the fact that things are client-sided is not a proper defense that "everything will be okay". GameGuard is a rootkit that can very well scan for certain strings and processes if it so wishes to, and send information to SEGA for them to possibly take action.

Since SEGA seemingly cares about this one, I would not take the risk, unlike the English Patch, for example.

[Shiyo]

Go fuck yourself sega.

You're fucking garbage.

You should want your damn player base to improve and try to strive to be better, so that you can create more difficult content. Instead, you let them fester as blundering idiots and don't give a fuck.

Gotta cater to the idiot casuals!!!

[nguuuquaaa]

Ugh, how am I supposed to know if I'm suck or check on mechanics from now on?

Why does SEGA want people to be suck forever?

[KazukiQZ]

Hahahaha

/vo12 SEGA~!

[Shiyo]

Ugh, how am I supposed to know if I'm suck or check on mechanics from now on?

Why does SEGA want people to be suck forever?

Exactly. Now I can't use a tool to HELP MYSELF IMPROVE(and guess what, give me more reasons to log on and play) because it might hurt some casuals feelings who is playing a HU/FO and using a all class talis.

Fucking disgusting.

[Xaelouse]

It was pretty obvious that they didn't tolerate it, although seeing as they made this statement I wonder how often the main player base (JPs) were using it

[Z-0]

It was pretty obvious that they didn't tolerate it, although seeing as they made this statement I wonder how often the main player base (JPs) were using it
Well, there were Japanese branches from OverParse specifically and numerous threads on 2ch about how to use the Tweaker and OverParse for their modifications, so I'd garner a sizable amount of people were using it.

I saw quite a lot of parses on Twitter as well, OverParse was definitely a popular program.

Also you guys are strange, they're not blocking these sorts of tools because they want everyone to stay casual, but because its against policy and the last thing they want are people tinkering and changing the game.

[Xaeris]

Obviously, I can't read their minds as to their ultimate purpose here, but if their only motivating concern is the integrity of their code, it's odd that they'd ignore the likes of the nude mod, various skin swaps, and of course, the English patch for this long, but jump on this with considerably more aplomb.

[nguuuquaaa]

I don't think parsers messed with the game more than what English patch did. (...right?)

At least they could release an own DPS check feature like what I saw in Dragon Nest, but this is SEGA we are talking about so probably not.

[Nyansan]

Obviously, I can't read their minds as to their ultimate purpose here, but if their only motivating concern is the integrity of their code, it's odd that they'd ignore the likes of the nude mod, various skin swaps, and of course, the English patch for this long, but jump on this with considerably more aplomb.

Actually, there was a case wherein some guy posted on twitter about his modded Itsuki outfit a month before the thing actually came out and subsequently caused his account to get banned. I figure it's the same with the parser wherein people are witchhunting and harassing people who are at the bottom of the food chain in parser

[.razor.]

and nothing of value was lost

[blanc1990]

Eng. Patch isnt findable from GG right?

[Sirius-91]

Eng. Patch isnt findable from GG right?

They would have to add the file check stuff to GG in order to do that.

So to answer your question, no it's impossible, unless you screenshot yourself, with your username/player ID.
But then SEGA would just investigate your account and maybe ban you. But mosdef not GG.

[Caetho]

THE ZANVERSE PARSE DREAM IS DEAD :-( :-( :-(

[BlackAlphaG]

Go fuck yourself sega.

You're fucking garbage.

You should want your damn player base to improve and try to strive to be better, so that you can create more difficult content. Instead, you let them fester as blundering idiots and don't give a fuck.

Gotta cater to the idiot casuals!!!

http://i.imgur.com/w7fG06M.gif

[cheapgunner]

AH, I remember using that parser in Ultimate Lillipa and seeing me place quite high (at least top 3 in damage in this one mpa just to see where my dps was at that time. Hoping even after Odin, more dps checks are brought to PSO2 so that we can have even more challenges. /o/

[TaigaUC]

Called it. I knew they'd start threatening bans if they couldn't stop OverParse via GameGuard.
And yes, a lot of people were using damage parsers, as Z-0 said.
I've also talked before about some JP people getting banned for posting mod pics on Twitter. Not sure how they detect mods.

I find it particularly sad that SEGA considers damage parsing "fraudulent cheating".
They apparently let a bunch of people get away with duping and shit like that.

[Rsync]

Called it. I knew they'd start threatening bans if they couldn't stop OverParse via GameGuard.
And yes, a lot of people were using damage parsers, as Z-0 said.
I've also talked before about some JP people getting banned for posting mod pics on Twitter. Not sure how they detect mods.

I find it particularly sad that SEGA considers damage parsing "fraudulent cheating".
They apparently let a bunch of people get away with duping and shit like that.

Lets not forget about that Returner II

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, that falls under "shit like that".

Personally, i would consider standing around doing nothing and leeching to be "fraudulent cheating".
Parsing damage to be more effective and root out leechers seems like the opposite, to me.
But hey, whatever helps SEGA sleep better at night.

Yes, I know it's a third party tool and you're not supposed to be using those.
But they look the other way for some tools and not others. They also don't ban non-JP players despite being against the TOS.
In this case, they specifically targeted damage parsers, knowing exactly what they do. They know that it's not "fraudulent cheating".

It's all an excuse to cover up for their shitty failure at closing the gap between weak and strong players.
Easier to prevent people from figuring out exactly who is leeching, than to streamline their 999 systems that all do the same thing.

[Keilyn]

Go fuck yourself sega.

You're fucking garbage.

You should want your damn player base to improve and try to strive to be better, so that you can create more difficult content. Instead, you let them fester as blundering idiots and don't give a fuck.

Gotta cater to the idiot casuals!!!

Since I like you I will post...

One of the cute things about PSO-2 is that if I were to apply Void-Theory to it, then void-theory will prove that in PSO2 supporting casuals and elite players prevents the game design from normalizing because the demands of elites and the demands of casuals are polar. The only area to meet is a middle ground in which casuals will have to fight to maintain or even reach, while Elites will be disgusted that the middle ground exists and its holding back their gameplay from reaching bigger and better things. Elites will think "why must we be losers in order for casuals to be winners?" in terms of content-design. While the casuals would think "What are you even trying to prove? Just kill a map faster to show how great you are?..." a lot is lost in design itself...

Void-Theory also proves that although the community does not approve as much of poor Hybrid Types over the pure-damage types, that the community is willing to play a hybrid population-game, which by the same community-based logic.. "Playing a poor hybrid class combination makes both classes weaker than actually stronger" which actually means being in a hybrid population game makes the overall population weaker for the exact same reason. The community is willing to accept the need to run Fo/Te, Br/Hu, Fi/Hu, (as examples), but the community plays a game where the hybrid-population itself makes PSO-2 seems like it is internally its own super poor class/subclass combination.

One can't choose to cater to elites AND cater to casuals because they are both on the opposite end of the spectrum regardless the difficulty modes. Either make the difficulty modes truly worthy of the name SUPER HARD and EXTRA HARD or don't make them at all. its EXTRA HARD (for Casuals), but EXTRA HARD for elites has been the new Super Hard for that class of players.

Making the game stronger means Catering the game for one type and sticking with that one type.
SEGA has made their choice long ago to cater their product to Casual Players.

This is devastating to Elite Players because it means one truth...
Elite Players are NOT going to get the game that they actually deserve and want. A tougher and more direct game that has direct consequences for actions, greater accountability, class balance and better gear....

All Elite players ever get are new difficulty modes where all a casual has to do is not play for 6 months to a year and by then enough weapons have been released that have caught up to the new difficulty mode.
The increase in power and equipment itself and all of the Systematic Handoffs has pretty much made XH much easier than it was a year ago...

...but it also means one important thing.
At the end of the day even if the Elite is happy from posting a 1 minute screenshot on running a TA map
...this game is NOT for ELITES because one can't cater for the two at the same time...

...and we all know the story about the Elite who claimed to be Elite in a casual game and moved on to an Elite Game. The Elite found out that he was an outright casual himself because the casual game he was in had made him soft. It made the Elite Player believe he was great, that he was amazing... even though the Elite failed to realize that being on the top of a casual game dulled his blade and lowered his wit. It made his thoughts clumsy and his mind fat.....the elite player had continued to prove to the casual that he was an extremely big deal, while the true-elite player proved in an elite game that he was an elite among elites, while the elite among casuals proved that he was the greatest casual-elite of all time...

The reason I don't play to win in PSO-2 is because I know that its a game for casuals. If I become an elite in PSO-2 I will be a casual-elite at best, because it would be an environment from the ground up completely built for the casual gamer, and not the elite gamer. All I could do is simply enjoy the fashion, characters and the hacking and slashing. Not that the game isn't fun or isn't good, just that as long as the game is built to be for casuals, all an elite can be at best is a casual-elite since the environment does not support the growth of an elite, and few would ever understand what makes a player elite to begin with or even care to know...

I am sorry I had to write a post like this, but I feel it generally is true.....

[elryan]

While I disagree on SEGA banning parsing tool, I think the people who are finger pointing / dick-waving using the parsing tools are kinda asking for it.

Good riddance?

[Zeroem]

Well, I can only see bad things would come in future with this decision. And honestly, SEGA's excuse for this matter is reaching and borderline lame. Band-aid solutions.

Just like real-life weapons, damage parsers are not created to dick other people. It's people dicking other people.

Well, I'm afraid this would only serve to kill people's motivation of improving themselves. And making the game one-step closer toward casual MMO. Whether that's a good thing or not, only time would tell.

[Caetho]

Yeah, that falls under "shit like that".

Personally, i would consider standing around doing nothing and leeching to be "fraudulent cheating".
Parsing damage to be more effective and root out leechers seems like the opposite, to me.
But hey, whatever helps SEGA sleep better at night.

Yes, I know it's a third party tool and you're not supposed to be using those.
But they look the other way for some tools and not others. They also don't ban non-JP players despite being against the TOS.
In this case, they specifically targeted damage parsers, knowing exactly what they do. They know that it's not "fraudulent cheating".

It's all an excuse to cover up for their shitty failure at closing the gap between weak and strong players.
Easier to prevent people from figuring out exactly who is leeching, than to streamline their 999 systems that all do the same thing.


Bad Player + Good Gear = Bad Player, no mechanic in a game can fix a player who does not know how to play the game.

[Voison]

Go fuck yourself sega.

You're fucking garbage.

You should want your damn player base to improve and try to strive to be better, so that you can create more difficult content. Instead, you let them fester as blundering idiots and don't give a fuck.

Gotta cater to the idiot casuals!!!

Its like looking in a mirror..

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1895505/angry-fatass-o.gif

[Gaentz]

hooray, now i wont be able to see if im contributing well enough or how well my friend is doing so i can give them advice
oh well gotta protect the people who cant breach 3k max hit in XH i guess

[SteveCZ]

Bad Player + Good Gear = Bad Player, no mechanic in a game can fix a player who does not know how to play the game.

First time I see you post something else than Zanverse. I mean it. :-o

[Caetho]

First time I see you post something else than Zanverse. I mean it. :-o

You have though, so my work here is done :wacko:

[TaigaUC]

Even without damage parser, the dick wavers will still be waving anyway.

[Yurixeva]

Oh well, thank you TyroneSama (and team) for creating Overparse. It was great and useful.

[fanfred]

now you can improve how to quickly count

[SteveCZ]

now you can improve how to quickly count

This. lols.


You have though, so my work here is done :wacko:

I can't beat a troll. :-(

[Altiea]

This is pretty stupid, but as someone who has never touched a third party tool for a game ever except Tweaker (and I dropped that as well once I moved onto playing on unmodified JP client full time), all I can say is that it's kind of a bad call.

I actually don't care either way.

[Rupikachu]

Good riddance, now i can go back to slack and use no grinded 7* equipment on eq's

[Gaentz]

Good riddance, now i can go back to slack and use no grinded 7* equipment on eq's
lucky rise units and weapons for everyone!

[SteveCZ]

Good riddance, now i can go back to slack and use no grinded 7* equipment on eq's

Actually, without this parser, they put their eyes more on inspecting your gears now.

[ZerotakerZX]

So in addition to lack of endgame content, they gonna punish us with no way of knowing of our perfomance. Good.

[Zeroem]

lucky rise units and weapons for everyone!


Good riddance, now i can go back to slack and use no grinded 7* equipment on eq's

Also with +3 Axeon/Lord Axeon/Emperor Axeon hid under Nanaki camo!

[Vintasticvin]

I'm with Sega on this regarding the overparse and no offense to the developer but this could potentially make an already toxic community even more toxic than it already is even though I've yet to be a victim. However I will admit its a nifty tool for those curious about their damage output.

[Caetho]

Not like it will make a difference for me, I am the Zanverse God, and as long as Zanverse exists, I will remain top DPS, parser or no parser.

[ZerotakerZX]

I'm with Sega on this regarding the overparse and no offense to the developer but this could potentially make an already toxic community even more toxic than it already is even though I've yet to be a victim. However I will admit its a nifty tool for those curious about their damage output.Nah, if person is a bastard, he will be an asshole anyway, with or without provided tools.

[黒雪Yacchi]

I was using parser to help improve myself but I guess now that's a banable "offense" gg Sega

[TaiDono]

If I had to say it, this is an insult to everyone who wants to get better at the fucking game. Everyone using the parsing plugin on some level has embarked on the journey for self-improvement. While many communities have become toxic and exclusive due to the inclusion of parsing in their MPAs, I guarantee you that 99% of people were not using it that way. And to think that SEGA would ban people for wanting to learn- now that's repulsive. As a result of this, we're probably going to see groups for future content thrive less than they used to, being unable to compare results and test what the best options are. When I woke up, this was shocking, because TyroneSama, Variant, and my friends have invested so much effort into ACT and OverParse - and now the threat of it being thrown down the drain is just inconceivable to me. So let's not give up, while the future of parsing may seem bleak, we can still at least try.

[ZerotakerZX]

If I had to say it, this is an insult to everyone who wants to get better at the fucking game. Everyone using the parsing plugin on some level has embarked on the journey for self-improvement. While many communities have become toxic and exclusive due to the inclusion of parsing in their MPAs, I guarantee you that 99% of people were not using it that way. And to think that SEGA would ban people for wanting to learn- now that's repulsive. As a result of this, we're probably going to see groups for future content thrive less than they used to, being unable to compare results and test what the best options are. When I woke up, this was shocking, because TyroneSama, Variant, and my friends have invested so much effort into ACT and OverParse - and now the threat of it being thrown down the drain is just inconceivable to me. So let's not give up, while the future of parsing may seem bleak, we can still at least try.Yes, indeed. Of we can forget about this game. It really easy, and without at least some motivation, as performance optimisation, there is no vivid reason to play.

[milranduil]

this is some hot garbage, but oh well. in pugs, it's not that hard to see who is carrying, whoever that may be.

[landman]

Even without damage parser, the dick wavers will still be waving anyway.

Where is the "up-vote this comment" button? ._.

[Raujinn]

Yeah I've never used the parser and I can generally tell when I'm carrying and when I'm being carried...

[Xaelouse]

I dont get it. You can easily tell if you're playing like garbage or not. You dont need to hack to figure these things out
Besides that, the game doesn't have systems in place to stop people from bringing bad equipment or classes or any measures to prevent """"leeching"""" in certain quests. So it is what it is if you have such players in your group.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Had a feeling they'd start banning sooner or later with how constant the GG updates were against it.

Didn't think they'd warn us though.

Oh well, I saw what I had to see, and I know where my damage is; carrying 9/10 pugs. May as well get rid of the plugin next update of tweaker, yeah?

edit: i totally do not read before posting :p

PS: I know they said overparse is 'cheating', but I'd put money on the fact their true intentions were to stop the community from getting too toxic for the new PS4 players they've worked so hard to get into the game, and get up to speed. If I was in their position, I would be worried about the community being even more hostile with a little help from a 3rd party program to target people.

In short,

https://i.imgflip.com/82hd6.jpg

[Meteor Weapon]

It's a miracle they didn't even bother with English Patch and Proxy, I thought those two were enough to trigger GG

[Zyrusticae]

I dont get it. You can easily tell if you're playing like garbage or not. You dont need to hack to figure these things out
This is pretty much where I stand on this.

I can tell based on my equipment and how much time I'm spending putting out damage vs. being on the floor how much contribution I'm making. Not to mention solo time trial and XQ runs, etc. It's very easy to measure your performance using methods that don't involve direct parsing.

The folks who parse 100k damage total are folks who just don't give a shit. They don't try to improve on any level - equipment, personal skill, or otherwise. Parsing doesn't do anything for those folks. So makes no difference to me.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's a miracle they didn't even bother with English Patch and Proxy, I thought those two were enough to trigger GG

Pretty sure they woulda've targeted those if they wanted to. There's not much in it for them if they did though. Overparse on the other hand could indirectly cost them money. After all, players complained about it. And unlike the obviously foreign players, you can't leave the ship to avoid 90% of the problem.

[jooozek]

knew it (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?231790-Anybody-getting-NP1013-today&p=3321211&viewfull=1#post3321211) :wacko:

[Kokurokoki]

Exactly. Now I can't use a tool to HELP MYSELF IMPROVE(and guess what, give me more reasons to log on and play) because it might hurt some casuals feelings who is playing a HU/FO and using a all class talis.

Fucking disgusting.

I was going to reply but then I realized that you're kind of an elitist idiot. So I'm just going to call you a moron and be done with it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I was going to reply but then I realized that you're kind of an elitist idiot. So I'm just going to call you a moron and be done with it.

I do want this cleared up; what do you define as 'elitist'? What has Shiyo done to be defined as an 'elitist'?

I'm not sure if you may as well be calling me an elitist while you're at it or what.

[Shiyo]

Wanting to improve yourself at something and strive to be better does NOT make you elitist. It makes you a human being.

[Rupikachu]

Actually, without this parser, they put their eyes more on inspecting your gears now.

Thats why on the countdown you keep your 60 ele decent affixed 13* and switch when the eq starts.

[Zysets]

I don't care about this at all, I never used it to begin with.

And I doubt this is will get people to start using crap weapons and class setups, if you're doing bad, it'll be pretty obvious.
Wipes during the Persona part of Profound Darkness and soon Odin will be telling signs that you're not doing well, even just how long it'll take you to beat bosses and mobs will make it obvious that there's something wrong. Never used it once in my life, but I still feel it's necessary to keep up and build on myself just to carry my own weight.

[ShotGun]

Who told you that you have right to ivade other players builds and dictate them how they must play, even if they are Hu/Fo. My friend's reaction when he first time setted parser up was "OMG, Other players SO weak... disappointed".
Many times I have heard the stories about players, who not using moon atms on players who have more dps then they are. Partly I’m glad that they get rid of this crap.
No offense と　developers.

[Variant]

The order of events was pretty funny though.

-> Day 1: Block OverParse
-> Day 1: Bypassed
-> Day 2: Block OverParse with a much more primitive method
-> Day 2: Permanently bypass
-> Day 3: ???
-> Day 4: Announcement

They gave up trying to use GG to block it lol.

[Vatallus]

Can only assume people judging others in a casual game over their damage output lead to this. Nothing new to see here.

[Misaki Ki]

Who told you that you have right to ivade other players builds and dictate them how they must play, even if they are Hu/Fo. My friend's reaction when he first time setted parser up was "OMG, Other players SO weak... disappointed".
Many times I have heard the stories about players, who not using moon atms on players who have more dps then they are. Partly I’m glad that they get rid of this crap.
No offense と　developers.

The main issue is that the game tends to focus on 12 player EQs and LQs, where an individual's performance affects everyone else. (I wish we had 4 player EQs.) It doesn't also help that a properly set up character is multiples stronger than an improper one. It's pretty selfish going in with weaker weapons, class combinations, skill trees, playstyles, and expecting everyone else to pick up the slack. (Obviously, not everyone can be at peak condition 100% of the time, and people need to level - but some don't even try for anything that'll help.)

I don't believe the thought process here is an elitist one. Most people are happy to teach, help, and explain the systems - but typically the effort/help isn't wanted by a lot of people going in like that.

The bigger question here is what right to privacy do others have, especially if everyone affects one another. Should everything be open to each other, or should some things remain private to avoid toxic behavior - that sort of thing.

[catwat]

RIP i will miss it

[DrCatco]

My friend's reaction when he first time setted parser up was "OMG, Other players SO weak... disappointed".


That's why I started using ACT/OverParse. I was one of those "so weak" players, and I didn't even know! I had the sensation that I was weak, but I didn't had a way to confirm it. Then, the ACT plugin appeared. I started using it and bam, my sad reality: I was always at the bottom of the dps table. Always. It was quite a shock to be honest.

Now, yes, I'm still a weak player. But I'm not at the bottom of the table, not consciously at least. I can tell that I've improved, be in Just Attacks, Just Guards, Just Reversals, evading, hitting weak points, using the proper stances when needed, etc. And it was thanks to ACT/OverParse which shown me what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong.

So yeah, SEGA banning users of these tools like me, it doesn't feel right.

[[Ayumi]]

While I think it's kind of stupid, it partially doesn't affect me either way.
I might be one of the few that never touched the parsers... but I did see what the parser did on certain occasions in MPAs I was in where someone was parsing so I can see how good or bad I was doing. That's pretty much as far I've gotten with it.
Wouldn't affect me though as I guess I'm too much of a filthy casual.


Also with +3 Axeon/Lord Axeon/Emperor Axeon hid under Nanaki camo!

Not ashamed to say that usually at the very end of Abyss, I switch to my Umbra Rod like just before he die/cutscene (due to people breaking the crystal way too fast before I can switch) and I use a camo I really like on Rods so... people usually don't get to see me do the switch.
And they won't stop and check my gear anyway when the boss is about to die in 5 seconds either so...


It's a miracle they didn't even bother with English Patch and Proxy, I thought those two were enough to trigger GG

The thing is that Sega knew about the patch since the 1st year actually. Not sure about the proxy though so I can't answer that one.


Thats why on the countdown you keep your 60 ele decent affixed 13* and switch when the eq starts.

Okay this one made me laugh a bit.

[TaigaUC]

I strongly disagree that it's easy to tell how efficient you are being. Here's why:

- Sure, you can aim for the best equip. But there are TONS of players who have the best gear, and still play like shit.
There are that many other pitfalls outside of gear. Skill trees, rings, lag, control setup, effective PAs, etc. When you should use what, and which attacks hit harder.

- A ton of attacks/combos hit multiple times in quick succession and/or take a while to complete.
Unless you're recording videos and manually counting, you're not going to know how much damage that is.
Especially when they rebalance stuff. What's more effective now, Illusion Rave's long-ass string of attacks or a quicker hitting attack?
Is it better damage in the long run to use Wild Rhapsody 0 -> Quick March, or use Orchestra, which takes a long time to execute?
And I'd imagine these are also affected by how much PP you have, etc. What's the best way to balance your stats? I'm sure it varies depending on playstyle, too.

- Multi strength varies greatly. There's no way to know how much you're comparatively and effectively contributing.
Which in turn means you don't know how much better you could be, unless you go around looking for videos of other players with similar setups, in similar scenarios.
Even with a damage parser, sometimes it feels like I'm doing well, and yet I still can't top a few people.
Then it becomes a matter of "why I couldn't beat them", and there are tons of possibilities for that, too.

- As far as I can imagine, the only way you can somewhat clearly figure out how effective you are is if you solo.
And it needs to be a boss that you have a good idea of how quick you normally can kill them.
Even if you solo an XH EQ boss, their HP is so huge, it takes so long to kill them, and there are so many variations in battle.
You're going to have to clear solo XH EQ bosses a ton of times to get a rough idea of how effective your current setup is on XH EQ bosses.
It's not really viable to keep doing this over and over everytime you make a change to your setup.
I suppose you might be able to figure out your effectiveness in a group, if you're lucky enough to fill a multi with a ton of other people who play just like you do.

- Randomized enemy behavior can make a big difference in how fast you beat a boss, which makes it more difficult to gauge player strength.
For example, even a good multi can take a long time to kill Double if it keeps running away constantly.
Depending on the quest, there are also other factors going on that affect how quickly a boss is downed. Code Avoid, trash mobs, etc.
There's a lot of stuff going on at once, which makes it even more difficult to figure out how effective you're being.

- It takes a lot of research to compare all the mechanics that influence damage, such as latents, skills, stat calculations, etc.
And there are a lot of little things that don't work how people would expect, or behave differently in different situations.
I'd imagine that only if you are able to accurately process ALL of these factors in mind, would you be able to achieve a somewhat accurate understanding of your strengths.
Remember, most people are not going to know these things, nor are they going to research them. There's no way they'd be able to easily tell how effective they are.


Not to be offensive, but I think that if you really believe that it's that easy to know how effective you are, then you are very likely being overconfident.
I think that if you believe you are already the best, you won't be able to improve.
A person needs to be able to question themselves before they begin to consider paths for improvement.

I'm aware there are some people who seem to be able to figure out exactly how effective they are.
Like the knowledgeable JP friend I keep mentioning, because they often go out of their way to experiment and do research, even for the most obscure of details.
Or probably Z-0, the people he plays with, and the other people on this forum at his level. I know there are a bunch of good players on here.

Personally, I find it difficult to tell if I'm effective or not. I'm not an idiot, and I've been playing games for longer than most.
I don't have the confidence, nor do I know the mechanics clearly or accurately enough to be sure that I am making a difference.
I will admit that I tend to miss simple/obvious stuff because I automatically assume things are more complicated than they seem.
But I honestly do not think it's simple to figure out effectiveness, especially with how convoluted PSO2 is, with so many factors affecting overall strength.

I see tons of people with 6+ slot affixed units/Austere and +130-200 damage on everything, and I don't feel I can compete at all, to the point that I feel like a burden.
But thanks to damage parsing, I was able to confirm that I wasn't that far behind, if at all.
Take the PD I did a few days ago, where I played like shit and died way too often.
I was still somewhat keeping up with the top players (who had gear equal to or better than me), despite repeated deaths. Really didn't expect that.

A while back, I was having trouble figuring out why my Double Saber damage wasn't enough to kill Bal Lodos in one harpoon.
Yes, Bal Lodos harpoon is probably one of the best ways to gauge your strength.
All I knew was that something was wrong. It took lots discussion on this forum, and testing (running back to Bal Lodos repeatedly) to figure out exactly what the issue was.
It turns out my character and weapon/camo hitbox was too small for some Double Saber attacks to properly deal huge damage.
There are things like that going on, too. Even such a vague and bizarre reason like that can make a HUGE difference.

Anyway, if you don't care about how effective you are, then I can't say much about that (other than "at least try to be considerate of other people").
After all, SEGA seems to only be interested in players who don't care about how effective they are.
This is increasingly obvious from the direction of their recent EQ design, and their relentless efforts to get in the way of more serious players.

I want to be clear and state that I am not saying people should be serious, or that the game should get rid of casuals.
I want to be able to play with casuals as well, but I also want to improve myself and achieve efficient quest clears.
SEGA keeps widening the gap between players, and they've put much more effort into concealing it than trying to close it.


@AIDA
+00 bytes. Hilarious.

[sparab]

Great. Now I can leech the hell out of MPA without getting shamed.

10/10 SAGE

[SteveCZ]

That's why I started using ACT/OverParse. I was one of those "so weak" players, and I didn't even know! I had the sensation that I was weak, but I didn't had a way to confirm it. Then, the ACT plugin appeared. I started using it and bam, my sad reality: I was always at the bottom of the dps table. Always. It was quite a shock to be honest.

Now, yes, I'm still a weak player. But I'm not at the bottom of the table, not consciously at least. I can tell that I've improved, be in Just Attacks, Just Guards, Just Reversals, evading, hitting weak points, using the proper stances when needed, etc. And it was thanks to ACT/OverParse which shown me what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong.

So yeah, SEGA banning users of these tools like me, it doesn't feel right.

Maybe SEGA is trying to make the game somehow harder for everyone else by preventing people like you to finally notice your damage output and improve cause of the tool.

[Squall179]

I find it hilarious that people are getting so angry that they can't stroke their e-peens anymore from getting to read large numbers. Its like people get off on that or something. OH WELL.

[milranduil]

I find it hilarious that people are getting so angry that they can't stroke their e-peens anymore from getting to read large numbers. Its like people get off on that or something. OH WELL.

no one needed parser for that. just go look at 9999999 on visiphone. you are willingly ignoring the positive impact it had for many people which is a textbook example of ignorance.

[Raujinn]

I voiced my concerns initially for the potential toxic atmosphere a DPS parser could create. For PSO2's community however, it felt like it barely made any impact on it though so for my 2 cents I don't really get why they went after this with such gusto.

[isCasted]

PSO2 is a game:
- designed to run on old computers, but framerate constantly dips even on modern rigs;
- with focus on socialization, but block system doesn't allow you to unite with your friends for EQs;
- that tries to be friendly to casual players, but constantly adds new confusing systems that casuals don't want to bother with;
- (and now) that forces you to cooperate with random people, but shames you for wanting better cooperation.

Sure, elitism is an issue, but this isn't how you get rid of it. Wanting to improve, wanting others to cooperate and expecting rewards for your efforts is not elitism, this is common fucking sense.

[FireswordRus]

Sega need add ranking system like in MBD to all EQ,AQ,LQ

[TyroneSama]

Today, I released a new version of OverParse (https://github.com/TyroneSama/OverParse/releases/tag/1.16) that should hopefully warn as many players as possible about the situation. For now, OverParse will be in a development freeze, only updated for bugfixes. If you continue to use it, you do so at your own risk (like always).

I wrote some stuff about the situation on the GitHub release page, if anyone's interested in my sparse impressions of the situation. I won't repost it here because it's kind of a wall.

[GHNeko]

How am I supposed to see if I'm topping DPS with my HuFo Vol Graptor Ilbarta Combos? DansGame

[catwat]

true overparser can help you maximize your dmg. I used to be on top place for PD everytime since barantsion and ilbarta and equips are good. With the new PD i was kinda shocked seeing myself be 4th place or so. I didnt read up anything about the changes like that ilbarta is now nerfed and so i just went into it like i usually do and it sucked ofc. After the EQ i went through the log and checked on wth is going on and adjusted accordingly. After giving it some thoughts about the changes i was first again the second time i played it. And for the third run im going to experiment with something different now and dropping ice skill tree entirely and switching to fire for fomelgion and using nemesis talis which is fire to rafoie the last bits of double when it wont stop moving anymore. idk, ill have to see how that works out and the log from overparser will help me for that.
About sega, they probably dont want additional unwanted/unnecessary competition and no third party tools like this, so they ban it. Personally as much as i like this im gonna respect that and wont use it anymore.

[RINOSAMELE]

Hey all - We've made the decision to remove the PSO2 Damage Dump plugin from the Tweaker's plugin auto-download code. We need to play it safe here, because people's accounts are at risk, and that's not cool.

The new version of the Tweaker will delete the plugin one time only to make sure people who aren't aware are safe.

If you'd like to use the plugin, you do so at your own risk. It's available here: http://107.170.16.100/Plugins/PSO2DamageDump.dll

Just drop it in your pso2_bin/plugins/ folder and it'll work just like before, and the Tweaker will not remove it a second time.

EDIT: New Tweaker is live.

Why I update tweaker after always 想定外のエラーが発生しました,please help me :-(

[Keilyn]

The main issue is that the game tends to focus on 12 player EQs and LQs, where an individual's performance affects everyone else. (I wish we had 4 player EQs.) It doesn't also help that a properly set up character is multiples stronger than an improper one. It's pretty selfish going in with weaker weapons, class combinations, skill trees, playstyles, and expecting everyone else to pick up the slack. (Obviously, not everyone can be at peak condition 100% of the time, and people need to level - but some don't even try for anything that'll help.)

I don't believe the thought process here is an elitist one. Most people are happy to teach, help, and explain the systems - but typically the effort/help isn't wanted by a lot of people going in like that.

The bigger question here is what right to privacy do others have, especially if everyone affects one another. Should everything be open to each other, or should some things remain private to avoid toxic behavior - that sort of thing.

Most people are not willing to teach, help, or explain the system... which is why people complained and there are newb videos about how to play, as well as videos on how to play Tower Defense IV which are official. When people begin to speak about the right to privacy, I wonder if people have become so absorbed in a game that they are willing to speak about civil rights and liberties within the context of a game over actually speaking out to the level of tyranny and oppression that exists in the real world.

The MPAs are so easy that if there is something that the parser taught anyone is that one really only needs one good Damage Dealer to carry everyone else in those level 75 LQs. Also, most BOSS MPAs is usually around 2 - 3 people dealing most of the damage to the boss. In short... As long as PSO-2 is a casual based game... there will always be casual-elites ready to carry everyone else.

[wefwq]

Create more room for new casul fella.
Seriously though, the new guys will have hard time mingling around with old-timer simply because of the toxic behavior, maybe this'll reduce the heat.
Parser are good for self-audit though it's more than often used improperly.

[Shoterxx]

Meh. Never liked black boxes, but to be honest, but don't think this is a reason to bitch about. Just hope a potential fix won't lock out plugins, ReShade and the sort.

[Agastya]

this entire thread is a really good example of why the parser is bad. i want to save some of these posts and print them out on postcards and mail them to you people five years from now so that you can look back on how angry you got at an easy pve game and feel utterly humiliated.

i don't know why anybody is surprised, though. there was no way it wasn't going to end in the parsers being banned in some way or another.

[milranduil]

true overparser can help you maximize your dmg. I used to be on top place for PD everytime since barantsion and ilbarta and equips are good. With the new PD i was kinda shocked seeing myself be 4th place or so. I didnt read up anything about the changes like that ilbarta is now nerfed and so i just went into it like i usually do and it sucked ofc. After the EQ i went through the log and checked on wth is going on and adjusted accordingly. After giving it some thoughts about the changes i was first again the second time i played it. And for the third run im going to experiment with something different now and dropping ice skill tree entirely and switching to fire for fomelgion and using nemesis talis which is fire to rafoie the last bits of double when it wont stop moving anymore. idk, ill have to see how that works out and the log from overparser will help me for that.
About sega, they probably dont want additional unwanted/unnecessary competition and no third party tools like this, so they ban it. Personally as much as i like this im gonna respect that and wont use it anymore.

It's good that you identified that you wanted to improve with new, but your strat isn't going to help. I would advise getting a light talis if you don't have one already and talis fast throw. Use this to ragrants double's legs. Yes I am aware he moves alot; you need to learn his attack rotations and when it is appropriate to pp dump because there are many to do so. Save barantsion for after 3rd break ends. Charge it the moment he retracts his core and let it go asap and press lock on. The whole thing will hit core when it comes out.

As for tree, stick with ice/light for barantsion damage. Rafoie is so terrible to use for anything in this eq...

[Variant]

i don't know why anybody is surprised, though. there was no way it wasn't going to end in the parsers being banned in some way or another.

FWIW, they've always been banned and against the ToS as 3rd party tools. Looks like they just gave up trying to block it silently with GG.

If you think about it that way, all that's happened is that SEGA has made their stance very clear. Take from that what you will.

That being said, the damage dump plugin still works and I don't see that changing immediately at least, so use that at your own risk.

[IchijinKali]

Meh I always have my teammates to help me get the best out of a class. Considering one of them has rarely been wrong on ways to do that I'm fairly certain I won't miss this.

[hoangsea]

actually it's not my problem since i still can do fine with my accounts
but some players are seriously against the newbies, especially after PS4 player flood in
and the problem that among the japanese forums after dmg checking program are widely spread

as the publisher what SEGA doing is an good moves at SEGA point of view, but with players they may don't like it
also as the publisher they need to earn as much money as they can so dmg checking tools are on their way

people also mention about english patch and tweaker
SEGA not doing much about this because SEGA can earn money from us, the over sea player
but they still against tweaker sometimes because they just want to prove to their local player that they still watching over the foreginers

SEGA have their problem and us also
so everyone have their rights on their action
so i don't blame anyone, sega or those against the parser banning problem

[Enforcer MKV]

I'unno, as someone who never used this....I can't help but find this pretty dumb. People should be able to see their damage compared to others if they want to.

Players in this game are going to be toxic anyway, even without the parser. The way this game is designed now just lends itself too much to it. Sega could potentially fix this, but that requires too much work and effort on their part, so they're going the easy route and banning people who simply have a parser active, without any evidence that the person is harassing other players. Not a slap on the wrist for bad behavior, a full on ban. To people who could have spent years paying and trying to get other people to play the game. For "cheating."

....This is telling....and really quite lazy. Sheesh.

[EspeonageTieler]

I'm kind of curious here I see people talking about the game being toxic. But I've never met anyone who talked shit on me for being bad/undergeared. And I definitely don't have good gear or the best damage. Also do you really need to have a parser to know if you are playing a build right? Is it that hard to see how fast you kill something compared to others?

[Variant]

Also do you really need to have a parser to know if you are playing a build right? Is it that hard to see how fast you kill something compared to others?

It's a tool to help you see that better and more quantitatively. Of course you don't need it.

[Selphea]

Of course you need it for SCIENCE!

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm kind of curious here I see people talking about the game being toxic. But I've never met anyone who talked shit on me for being bad/undergeared. And I definitely don't have good gear or the best damage. Also do you really need to have a parser to know if you are playing a build right? Is it that hard to see how fast you kill something compared to others?

You don't need one to know. It's just way easier to see performance, and unfortunately, target people with it. SEGA really doesn't like the idea of a 3rd party addon making it much easier to antagonize people, even if it wasn't made with that as its main purpose.

[Enforcer MKV]

I'm kind of curious here I see people talking about the game being toxic. But I've never met anyone who talked shit on me for being bad/undergeared. And I definitely don't have good gear or the best damage. Also do you really need to have a parser to know if you are playing a build right? Is it that hard to see how fast you kill something compared to others?

Well, recently it hasn't happened [Thankfully - that behavior is childish at best.] but I used to get a lot of hate for player RA/TE. "You suck; go die; shit player" Etc, etc, etc. The "usual" I guess.

People can be stupid sometimes. Reeeeeeeeally stupid.

[Uncle_bob]

lol parser nerds completely DESTROYED

time to play a real e-sport kiddos

[aiMute]

I'm kind of curious here I see people talking about the game being toxic. But I've never met anyone who talked shit on me for being bad/undergeared.
Same here. Parser is a great tool for improving your own damage because you can actually see that you got better (which was one of the few things (thanks ep4) that kept me entertained) it's also fun to compete with others, but fucking Sega needs to cater to the "everyone is equal or some shit" audience even though the only toxic enounter I remember was the one where that LightParser guy went full crusader on axeon fattass and it could be done without parser. Sega needs some serious spanking from investors and get their fucking ep4 director fired.

Actually there was some sort of opposite of toxicity due to parser - there was one guy that played sword HuFi and always had low damage (but everyone expects that from HuFi), even with better gear, but lately he started to do some serious damage, 2-3 times higher damage and that is some serious shit that I can respect for. Without parser I would continue to see him as useless "HuFi a gimp" player.

[IchijinKali]

I used to get flagged by a good number of people since my main takes on the job most people ignore, support, because everyone is a fan of big damage. It took the advice of a teammate and a few weeks for me to fix my class up so I was perfect for support. Even then people still love to ignore me unless they hear/see proof of me being useful.

[ArcaneTechs]

But how will we know which FI is spamming full gear Chaos Riser!! or how will we know whos:

HuFo-Fo-Hu
Su-Hu/Fo/Bo
FoBo/TeBo
FiRa/Br/Bo

All that aside, Parser is pretty helpful and honestly a stupid thing for them to act on (I mean it's Sega quality, what did we expect?). Hell I've been wanted a DPS training room check for a long time but we all know Sega won't do it or it would take a year for it it to happen (like training on any boss you select and mobs with results shown during the entire process).

Sega, you guys got all this money and time, how about getting off your asses to create more content so people don't get bored already more than they are that it comes down to breaking down your game until theres nothing left.

I'm mad, I can't bug my friend for my results now

[Natsu Nem]

Since I use ACT for FFXIV, how exactly does GG detect it?

I decided to randomly log in the very same day they updated GG to detect ACT and couldn't figure out why I kept getting NP1013ed.

[Shiyo]

2016, the age of hand holding, coddling, and pampering.

[Shadowth117]

Since I use ACT for FFXIV, how exactly does GG detect it?

I decided to randomly log in the very same day they updated GG to detect ACT and couldn't figure out why I kept getting NP1013ed.

Well, it uses a DLL injection to get into the process and then reads data from there. To get most things to do a proper dll injection generally for this game, you're already jumping through hoops with your method because of Gameguard.

Of course, it shouldn't really be caring about your FFXIV parcer since that's not the same program iirc. It should be fine to have that up and PSO2, I would think.

[Hrith]

I... don't understand how that bothers SEGA. Do data-analysing tools somehow affect the servers in any way?

Japanese developers tend to think backwards on the subject of modding, while Western developers tend to promote the idea (well, not always for the best reasons).

Would the Arks Mod Tool flag the witch hunt in any way?

The UI update was cool and all, but if SEGA is against modding, maybe it's time PSO2 got new options, then.

[oratank]

parsing tools bring flame war to community as same as ff14 that ban this issue too(if they get reported).jp dev may not like this kind of thing

[Z-0]

Personally I cannot help but feel the majority of you are blowing this way out of proportion.

Furthermore it is untrue that the parsing tool wasn't being used primarily to shame, even if it was behind closed doors most of the time, and people like the likes of Shiyo are prime examples of this.

[SteveCZ]

Personally I cannot help but feel the majority of you are blowing this way out of proportion.

Furthermore it is untrue that the parsing tool wasn't being used primarily to shame, even if it was behind closed doors most of the time, and people like the likes of Shiyo are prime examples of this.

Can't deny the people who use the tool correctly, and I can't deny the people who are insecured by it either.

SEGA somehow decided the game isn't suited for people like Shiyo or anyone wishes to improve like what you believe in. If they do agree with the likes of Shiyo or you, they'll make an official tool like OverParse, which all of us also believe it's a slim chance to happen.

If SEGA isn't worried about the use of the tool regarding on such concerns, SEGA would already make an official statement to PSO2 Tweaker as well, if it's in fact just about illegal 3rd party tool issue.

[Keilyn]

I used the parser as well to get better, and the parser opened my eyes at how casual the game itself actually is. In fact I liked using the parser to analyze. I have my own ways of analyzing without the need of a parser, but the parser was good at really seeing the MPA damage totals. However I think MPAs are a short percentage of my times in this game outside of LQ or EQs

[AsinineWaffle]

I was upset about this initially but it blew over. I got the data I wanted so really all I'm going to miss is competing with my team for highest damage in EQs and looking over my general performance.

[TaigaUC]

@Z-0
Well, like I said, it's not just this particular matter about damage parsers.
This is just another example of SEGA's attitude. Another nail in the coffin that confirms their priorities and approach.
If they did enough things that showed otherwise, then I'd have more hope for PSO2's future. But it is really not looking good.
I'm under the impression you haven't been particularly pleased about PSO2's direction of late either. A lot of people aren't. For good reason.

Yes, I've thought that super PD is a good thing. But that's also how PD should have been to begin with.
Aside from that, I can't think of any other significantly redeeming actions that SEGA has recently taken.
Maybe the new TA, but it's way too short and simple.

[Shiyo]

Personally I cannot help but feel the majority of you are blowing this way out of proportion.

Furthermore it is untrue that the parsing tool wasn't being used primarily to shame, even if it was behind closed doors most of the time, and people like the likes of Shiyo are prime examples of this.
You have screenshots of me "shaming" people for low parses?

I've literally never used the parser. I'm just not a moron and realize the parser is actually good for the game - no, good for ANY game.

Sure do love baseless insults!

[Tenlade]

I'm kind of curious here I see people talking about the game being toxic. But I've never met anyone who talked shit on me for being bad/undergeared. And I definitely don't have good gear or the best damage. Also do you really need to have a parser to know if you are playing a build right? Is it that hard to see how fast you kill something compared to others?

all the horribly toxic people are ones ive seen on this forum. the worst I saw was one guy complaining i picked up enough crystals to use the photon turret in td2. On the flipside the onlytime ive ever had anyone bring up the parser was someone complimenting me for hitting near the top of it while i was in thier party for an EQ.

I think the only reason Sega cares about this is it modifies the game to work, and not in a way that brings in customers like the english patch.

[Varuden]

I'm somewhat split when it comes to Parsing tools. I've never used one ever in my life, but I can see it as a potentially great tool to try and self-improve (Or make an inferiority complex much worse) but can also be used to shame others as well.

For me I see the pros and cons as such-

PRO:

Be able to measure and find out how to effectively maximize uptime and damage.
Gauge performance with those around you.
Be able to theorycraft and do fancy damage calculations.


CON:

Can potentially create more animosity towards players who are not up to "par". But lets face it, people will find ways to exert dominance with or without a parser, parser just makes it even easier to do so.
Support players are given no justice. Damage parser doesn't parse buff uptime, heals distributed, weak bullet, etc.
Does not always equate to player skill, since gear discrepancies also create differences in dps.


Also, I wonder how many people actually care about surviving, while having decent uptime they also effectively minimize the damage they take but maximize the damage they deal. Because personally, I still don't see face tanking damage just to deal more damage very skillful.

Whenever I play anything with automate hunter or iron will hunter, I always take a look at how many mates did it consume, or how many times did iron will proc. If too many mates are used, then it's less my skill and more getting carried by consumables. If iron will procs too many times, then it's just me not bothering to dodge because I know I have a chance at living. Even over relying on a tech-using class to heal you 100% of the time (and lower the damage they output in the process) so you don't have to pause to use a mate doesn't really make anyone more skillful.

Personal rants aside, I'm still split.

TL;DR:

Parsers are double edged swords.

Parsers are useful tools, but would be more effective it if parsed more than just damage numbers. They can also be utilized to antagonize/shame/etc player easier.

All in all? No one is winning this war. But supports are always going to lose the war regardless. MMO Rule #1.

[TaigaUC]

I don't consider posting legitimate negative concerns, experiences and complaints to be "toxic".
It's not realistic to turn a blind eye to everything and pretend it's all happy joy.

Toxic stuff I've seen:
- People on this forum seem to enjoy arguing (legitimate or not). Sometimes people take things out of context to attack someone, or assume they are stupid.
- EN people spamming annoying/rude stuff in the lobby like "we bombed your country", insulting people for whatever reason.
- EN people blaming each other for failures during bosses, accusing people of not WBing correctly, not playing properly, or not having good enough gear.
- JP publically shaming people who are leeching, have bad gear, or who generally do stupid things like begging someone to gift them expensive AC clothing for free.
- JP people arguing about whether grinding or affixing even make a difference. A bunch of people believe it doesn't (which is factually incorrect).
- JP scenario writer being an asshole.
- JP organized group drama stuff.
- JP making lists of confirmed foreigners. Probably too many for them to bother anymore, so I guess they just avoid ship 2.
- EN and JP people leeching in EQs by literally standing there doing nothing, in full rare drop/exp gear.
- SEGA pissing people off with their poor reactions, and implementation of various things, including Star Gem Scratch.

Stuff I've heard:
- Lots of team drama everywhere.
- JP making lists of people who leech, suck, etc.
- I hear that people have been boasting about topping damage meters. Haven't seen it first-hand myself.


Anyway, I had a few thoughts about damage parsing that I thought I'd try putting into writing:

We now know that SEGA decided to take action against damage parsers. As far as I can imagine, this implies one or many of the following:
- There are enough JP people using damage meters to be a problem. I doubt they give much of a damn about EN players using damage meters.
- They likely believe the recent increase in arguments about effectiveness is a direct result of damage parsing.

Taking these into consideration, this likely means:
- There is significant demand amongst Japanese users for damage parsing.
- SEGA has been wilfully ignoring people's complaints about weak players and leechers over the past four years. It has only become an issue to them now.
- SEGA thinks they can stop people arguing about effectiveness by prohibiting damage parsing. This does not solve the underlying issues.

People have been complaining about leechers and bad players for years, but complaints have recently increased. Why is that?
- Huge influx of newbies thanks to the PS4 version and the anime.
- SEGA continuing to dumb down the content whilst simultaneously making it more difficult to clear quickly (which is directly connected to all their time-based buff stuff).
- They keep adding new, similar and often convoluted systems that may or may not make you stronger, or weaker.
- Four years worth of too many upgrade systems for newbies (or even casuals) to take in and catch up on.
- Increasing lack of fresh content for PSO2. SEGA constantly makes us redo old content that people are tired of and just want the rewards for = increased incentive to leech.

Why would a person use a damage parser, anyway?
- Competing with other players on damage can be fun.
- You can easily experiment to figure out whether stuff is better or worse.
- Comparing to other players allows you to understand where you're at, and give you a clearer idea of how you can improve.
- You can clearly see who is leeching or sucking.
- Assholes like to boast about being on top.
- The game is generally super vague. Damage parser helps clarify many things.

So how has SEGA been handling these issues?
- They keep widening the gap between weak and strong players, with layers of similar upgrade systems that most people do not know exist, or don't want to waste time on.
- The game is intentionally vague to trick people into making mistakes which require real money to fix.
- They told strong players to help the weak players, instead of streamlining their systems to make getting stronger more accessible and intuitive (without dumbing them down).
- They seem to prefer trying to conceal the fact that there's a huge strength gap, as implied by their action against damage parsing.
- They won't acknowledge that their systems are confusing or obscure to most, instead opting to officially insult people who don't get it as "being dumber than a Rappy".
- Their new content is often focused heavily on incentive instead of fun new experience. This encourages people to leech.
- They added even more boost tickets, which further increases incentive to clear faster.
- They added a ton of Star Gem related microtransaction systems, because that brings in easy money. Yes, I know it's not really related, but SEGA prioritized it.
- Collect File guarantees good weapons if you put time in. But those often have pitfalls, eg. bad latents and low element (most people don't know how important element is).

What could SEGA be doing instead?
- There's obviously enough demand for a damage parser. They could add some form of in-built parser. There will be toxic behavior regardless, so why not?
- They should really streamline some of those systems. Merge all the similar ones. Make stuff more accessible, like Collect File.
- Make differences between sidegrades/upgrades more easily obvious. Or, you know, stop focusing so much on sidegrades.
- Add some kind of anti-leeching system.
- Focus more on making content fun. People leech when they're required to do stuff they don't enjoy. People don't leech when they actually want to enjoy playing the game.
- Put more clear, practical and one-time compulsory tutorials in-game. They need to emphasize how important some systems are, from the beginning.
- Be less vague about stuff in-game. Their in-game descriptions are often either very vague, unspecific, or just don't even exist (eg. affixes not listing the actual stat bonuses, etc).
- Remove or change the boost ticket system to not rely on time. That way, people won't be so eager to rush, rush, rush.
- Change the EQ system so that people have a long amount of time to do a limited number of EQ runs, instead of trying to fit as many as possible into a short window.

[Sora3100]

Support players are given no justice. Damage parser doesn't parse buff uptime, heals distributed, weak bullet, etc.



Actually, the parser does detect heals, if you use ACT, it shows you clearly, and it can actually detect weak bullet on hit, due to the way it works, say I could change it so that it shows all the Ra shot skills and what not.

[Varuden]

Actually, the parser does detect heals, if you use ACT, it shows you clearly, and it can actually detect weak bullet on hit, due to the way it works, say I could change it so that it shows all the Ra shot skills and what not.

Ah, didn't know that. Nice to know that ACT does have that information down.

[Tenlade]

It's probably been said, but I wonder if thier notice to get people to stop using the parser is because Odin's bossfight is about to be released. His dps race gimmick could lead to people using the parser to find whom to blame if they fail.

[Varuden]

It's probably been said, but I wonder if thier notice to get people to stop using the parser is because Odin's bossfight is about to be released. His dps race gimmick could lead to people using the parser to find whom to blame if they fail.

If that was the case, the the same could have been done with Persona segment of Profound since that phase is also a DPS check.

Regardless, if they were using parser to see who wasn't dealing enough damage and blame them, they would do so even without a phase.

[D-Inferno]

SEGA honestly should just add a ingame parser that works like TD rankings (lists only Top 3 publicly; privately lists yours) for boss quests. Perhaps apply it to TDs as well instead of listing who got the most killing blows.

[reaper527]

all the horribly toxic people are ones ive seen on this forum. the worst I saw was one guy complaining i picked up enough crystals to use the photon turret in td2.

well did you pick up enough crystals? once you reach a certain number of points in td, picking up more is useless, and by continuing to pick them up you are contributing as much as if you just afk'ed and went to get a drink (for example in td4 this number would be 6k, i can't remember the "stop collecting" number for td2 off the top of my head).

it's possible that the "horribly toxic" person was right and you were wrong.

[Tenlade]

well did you pick up enough crystals? once you reach a certain number of points in td, picking up more is useless, and by continuing to pick them up you are contributing as much as if you just afk'ed and went to get a drink (for example in td4 this number would be 6k, i can't remember the "stop collecting" number for td2 off the top of my head).

it's possible that the "horribly toxic" person was right and you were wrong.
Case in point.

First barrier wasnt even broken until the final wave and they called the whole mpa noobs for getting enough for photon cannons. (we still won with all towers just fine, especially with photon turrets clearing the last wave really easily)

[Flaoc]

tbh its highly unneeded to get crystals in td2 beyond the 1st barrier.. its much better to camp spawns and kill everything quickly.. by spending time in the back collecting crystals you are not helping killing the enemies instead making the runs longer by not offering your own dps to kill the mobs and bosses. crystals also not needed in td1 beyond once again the 1st barrier. td3 only needs the 2nd ais not the 3rd at 10k and td4 can be done quite effectively with just the 1 ais

[Tenlade]

Boy sure are a lot of people who rushed in telling me I did a quest wrong in a thread about the parser.

To specify: it was a thing i did on my alt once in TD2 over a year ago on an alt. and this was the "worst" example in the sense that ive had the fotrune to not really have people openly complain to me about git-gud or anything.

[NightfallG]

Fair warning is fair, but it's a silly policy to begin with. If they're concerned about toxicity arising from the use of parsers (a fair concern), then punish that behavior, not the tool.

Oh well, no more beating it to Zanverse deeps I guess. It's interesting that this comes shortly after revamped PD though. I guess 2ch has been a salt mine the past week?

They can't actually punish offsite shit though (unless it's like, a video with proof of cheating or whatever, but that's a bit different than shame threads), and it'd be too easy for a shamer to crop everything out except the MPA damage data and then go post anonymously on 2ch, 4chan, etc.

What I don't like about this is, it shouldn't be a permaban or an 816 ban. It should be a timed, 7 day to 1 month suspension that automatically goes away. But this is SEGA we're talking about and the only company that shits the bed harder is PGI.

E: Womp womp, I derped hard on remembering I was on the first page. Point still stands I guess, especially SEGA being a bedshitter. :v

[Shiyo]

- Focus more on making content fun. People leech when they're required to do stuff they don't enjoy. People don't leech when they actually want to enjoy
- Remove or change the boost ticket system to not rely on time. That way, people won't be so eager to rush, rush, rush.
- Change the EQ system so that people have a long amount of time to do a limited number of EQ runs, instead of trying to fit as many as possible into a short window.
Straight up upgrades lead to power creep to another dimension which leads to us 1 shotting bosses with an auto-attack. I've played enough MMO's for the past 15 years to know that the ones that do side-grades have MUCH higher replay value, balance, difficulty, and fun.

Making stuff so rewarding that you're essentially forced to be there is pretty bad and leads to people leeching. Again, from what I've seen in MMO's, when you greatly encourage people to do X content, they feel forced to do it and ruin it for the people who DO want to be there, while the content is also ruined for them because THEY dont want to be there. Sure, the content is more populated, but you have people who don't want to be there rushing, whining, leeching, and people who do want to be there getting annoyed at these players. Both players are annoyed and not having fun. It's a lose/lose situation. People should not feel forced to do things in a video game.

I agree with boost/EQ systems. They're horribly designed and just lead to you trying to rush(Which isn't fun imo) and get as many runs in as possible, which creates rude behavior because "my mpa sucked so I only got 2 runs instead of 3 what garbage players!" If there was no rushing, if everything had a 1 per EQ limit and if EQ's weren't so rewarding people wouldn't feel so rushed and wouldn't treat "bad players" so badly or get angry with them for being bad. Win/win situation.

I think EQ's should be 1 clear per EQ and their rewards should be more balanced for their difficulty. Yamato should give less loot than doing a normal mode forest explore, for example. While TD's rewards seem pretty well balanced, stuff like PD(on SH at least) seems extremely unrewarding for the effort. I've never gotten more than 3 10 stars from a PD on SH, while yamato gives me 40 with a 250% and 25ish without.

I also don't like the game being so heavily EQ based and would prefer if they were heavily nerfed and the amount of loot they drop was sprinkled into all other content in the game. Like what they did with TA CO's.

I also want more difficult 4 player content. AQ's/extremes are cool can we focus more on them over EQ's? We haven't gotten a damn AQ since seabed. Then, the newest extreme we got is SOLO only? This is a multiplayer game, basically a MMO. No thanks at solo content.

[DrCatco]

Anyone knows what are the jp players saying about all this?

[milranduil]

Anyone knows what are the jp players saying about all this?

based on my twitter feed (which only had a few people using it to begin with), they just found it dumb but amusing that sega is going out of their way to ban it.

[TaigaUC]

I don't know anyone else that was using it. Just me.

[Lostbob117]

How is damage tracking suppose to improve a player??

Seeing a lot people saying "I want to use it to improve!!".

[Roe]

I'm In Full agreement with Sega to many elitest use this just to block nubs if it takes banning them to make a friendlier community then I'm all for it

[SteveCZ]

How is damage tracking suppose to improve a player??

Seeing a lot people saying "I want to use it to improve!!".

I think it ticks them like "omg I didn't realize I deal very low damage after all this time!". Something like that.

You could say it's an "easy mode" for some players to realize they can improve in terms of delivering damage.

[Xaeris]

How is damage tracking suppose to improve a player??

Seeing a lot people saying "I want to use it to improve!!".

While the primary use of parsing is undoubtedly ego stroking, you can use it to compare different approaches to a boss to see what works better on average. You can still eyeball it, sure, but it's a pretty common story in online RPGs for someone who thinks they're the second coming to find out that they deal rather mediocre damage and have just been reinforcing bad habits the whole time.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

but it's a pretty common story in online RPGs for someone who thinks they're the second coming to find out that they deal rather mediocre damage

Or in my case, assume your own damage is mediocre at best for months because 'Fo is god'.

[milranduil]

I'm In Full agreement with Sega to many elitest use this just to block nubs if it takes banning them to make a friendlier community then I'm all for it

yes, and what exactly does blocking do in pso2? flawless logic :wacko:

[Superia]

to many elitest
flawless english :wacko:


Fixed.

[milranduil]

Fixed.

thank you for your valuable insight. you might try thinking before you post next time... the point i was poking at is that blocking in pso2 does not prevent those same exact people from joining your MPAs again and again. it is literally pointless to block "bad" players.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The fact that every other person I ran into with a 40 ele ray weapon at +30 today speaks volumes on SEGA's teaching systems...

Just had to get that off my chest.

[Xaeris]

I don't think I understand?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I don't think I understand?

You shouldn't use the copy of an NT weapon to element grind until you hit 30, since 31-35 require the same weapon. 40 ele ray weapons that aren't +31 either means they messed up grinding, or got it from a drop that happened to tekk at exactly 40 ele.

[milranduil]

You shouldn't use the copy of an NT weapon to element grind until you hit 30, since 31-35 require the same weapon. 40 ele ray weapons that aren't +31 either means they messed up grinding, or got it from a drop that happened to tekk at exactly 40 ele.

doesn't using the same wep raise the grind cap no matter when you use it?

[Xaeris]

Yes it does. I mean, it's still smarter to use your same name fodder at +30 for minimal lambda use, but it's nbd.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

doesn't using the same wep raise the grind cap no matter when you use it?


Does it? The why the hell are people stopped at +30? Some sort of weird trend? I've seen that 3 times in the past hour no joke.

God damn why isn't this shit made clear if it does?! ><

This is exactly what I was talking about!

[milranduil]

Does it? The why the hell are people stopped at +30? Some sort of weird trend? I've seen that 3 times in the past hour no joke.

God damn why isn't this shit made clear if it does?! ><

This is exactly what I was talking about!

it says it right when you grind it

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

it says it right when you grind it

So everyone I saw do that just chose not to finish grinding. It's like some sort of weird form of punked.

Either that, or probably they all assumed +30 was the end.

edit: Also, I didn't need parser to see I was standing next to a damn 75/75 Br/Ra with 20 ele seiga bow, million storming all during XH double and PD for a wopping 2k a hit, and we never got a WB.

[Xaeris]

It's like +10 Atk per grind past +30 and still costs a lambda per fodder. Plus, +31-+34 are ugly numbers.

As for making it clear, it's not Sega's fault we don't read moonrunes: [spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/27vi80A.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's like +10 Atk per grind past +30 and still costs a lambda per fodder. Plus, +31-+34 are ugly numbers.

As for making it clear, it's not Sega's fault we don't read moonrunes: [spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/27vi80A.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Feels like writing 30/3x somewhere more obvious on the weapon itself would be a better idea, like the very first tab, like how they did with rings, but chose not to here for whatever reason.

Also, you should tell that Br/Ra that opted to million storm for 2k damage over using weak bullet that +7 is an uglier number than +10, since that's where she left her units.

Now that parsing is gone, I'm going to have to get better at inspecting everyone at a tele fast, so its been enlightening.

[Shadowstarkirby]

Boss EQs are a lot more boring for me now that parsing is supposedly being cracked down upon. I guess I just really liked the competitiveness it brought out of me, rushing to see who can do the most damage was pretty fun.

Now it's just like, I go do Magatsu and Profound Darkness, finish, grab my loot, and that's that. There's nothing else to discuss besides saying "GG" and leaving. I can't see if I did worse or better than my previous runs nor just compete with my teammates, they're just a boring routine of beating on a excube pinata with no interesting feedback to go over.

I played fine and had fun without parser before, but that's when game were fresh for me to play and I had gear to work towards. It's not like that anymore. The last bit of fun I've gotten out of the game after absolutely exhausting every bit of content came from the competitive edge parser provided as silly as that sounds. Outside of boss EQs, all I do now is monotonous grinding for shit I don't even need vs. enemies that can barely get an attack off on me because ARKS are overpowering bastards.

[Lostbob117]

While the primary use of parsing is undoubtedly ego stroking, you can use it to compare different approaches to a boss to see what works better on average. You can still eyeball it, sure, but it's a pretty common story in online RPGs for someone who thinks they're the second coming to find out that they deal rather mediocre damage and have just been reinforcing bad habits the whole time.

That's why you can just time how long a boss battle takes for you. The damage won't matter since the boss is always going to have the same HP.

The only argument against this has really been "It let's players improve" when it actually doesn't do that, because looking at numbers won't improve anyone. There is no reason to allow this tool to be continued to be used.

[milranduil]

That's why you can just time how long a boss battle takes for you. The damage won't matter since the boss is always going to have the same HP.

The only argument against this has really been "It let's players improve" when it actually doesn't do that, because looking at numbers won't improve anyone. There is no reason to allow this tool to be continued to be used.

clearly you did not read much of this thread and skipped to the last couple pages... yeah sure you can time a boss battle if you're soloing. do many people do that a lot? no. looking at numbers during say pd or LQing actually does tell you if you're improving because you can look at it as you are playing. is it 100% accurate? no because some people have faster movement such as guren or ilzonde which not every class has access to or overkill damage on mobs like kazan/chaos riser. however, you can still look at relative improvement on say a boss realizing "hey i did 800k to this dio hunar before it died rather than 500k like before, i must have used a better combo". simply generalizing saying "numbers won't improve anyone" is incredibly ignorant.

[Enforcer MKV]

That's why you can just time how long a boss battle takes for you. The damage won't matter since the boss is always going to have the same HP.

The only argument against this has really been "It let's players improve" when it actually doesn't do that, because looking at numbers won't improve anyone. There is no reason to allow this tool to be continued to be used.

Yeah, but that only applies to solo battling bosses. Which I imagine isn't what most people are concerned with. They want a real-time comparison with other people, and there isn't any other way to get that. Not in any easy concrete way, anyroad. I don't use it in this game, but in FF14 I'll usually ask my friends who use parsers what I'm hitting compared to other classes. It let's me know where I stand comparatively. And having precise numbers is a hell of a lot nicer than ball-parking it. I understand the argument against it, toxicity and all that jazz.....but toxic players are always going to be toxic players. I can't help but feel Sega is jumping the gun on this, and really, banning people outright just for using it? That's just too harsh. If there was substantial proof of a player using it to discriminate, yeah, sure, ban that player for it. But to just blanket everyone like this? It just....reeks of laziness. Well, to me at least.

[Lostbob117]

clearly you did not read much of this thread and skipped to the last couple pages... yeah sure you can time a boss battle if you're soloing. do many people do that a lot? no. looking at numbers during say pd or LQing actually does tell you if you're improving because you can look at it as you are playing. is it 100% accurate? no because some people have faster movement such as guren or ilzonde which not every class has access to or overkill damage on mobs like kazan/chaos riser. however, you can still look at relative improvement on say a boss realizing "hey i did 800k to this dio hunar before it died rather than 500k like before, i must have used a better combo". simply generalizing saying "numbers won't improve anyone" is incredibly ignorant.

Then you realize that the players you are playing with have changed and allowed you that 300k extra damage. So you may not have improved at all and think you have. Which is a lot worse then not knowing at all. It's better to compare you numbers you see that you are hitting to other people who uses the same class as you. Then, you just need to figure out how you'll hit the enemy and when(to avoid death).


Yeah, but that only applies to solo battling bosses. Which I imagine isn't what most people are concerned with. They want a real-time comparison with other people, and there isn't any other way to get that. Not in any easy concrete way, anyroad. I don't use it in this game, but in FF14 I'll usually ask my friends who use parsers what I'm hitting compared to other classes. It let's me know where I stand comparatively. And having precise numbers is a hell of a lot nicer than ball-parking it. I understand the argument against it, toxicity and all that jazz.....but toxic players are always going to be toxic players. I can't help but feel Sega is jumping the gun on this, and really, banning people outright just for using it? That's just too harsh. If there was substantial proof of a player using it to discriminate, yeah, sure, ban that player for it. But to just blanket everyone like this? It just....reeks of laziness. Well, to me at least.

Why should they put any effort into getting rid of them when it's pretty clear they do not like third party tools used on their game anyways. They have shown this so many times of trying to get rid of the English Patch, and they didn't even want the Tweaker to be used.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Then you realize that the players you are playing with have changed and allowed you that 300k extra damage. So you may not have improved at all and think you have. Which is a lot worse then not knowing at all. It's better to compare you numbers you see that you are hitting to other people who uses the same class as you. Then, you just need to figure out how you'll hit the enemy and when(to avoid death).

Good thing overparse let us monitor the performance of those other players as well as our own so we have the ability to consider the possibilities easier.

Your point was what again?

[Hrith]

Reading this topic, I understand the problem a bit more, and I can understand why a developer would feel concern. In a way, it means they care about their community, but they really are going at it the wrong way.

I'd never use a damage parser to shame people, but leechers in this game are a much bigger issue than elitists.
I don't mean people 'not doing as much damage as me', I mean people not doing any kind of relevant damage, whether it's because they are using 10* weapons at +5 and 30% with 1~2s units or because they are just not doing anything... literally.
I don't care about equipment much, and I don't care if you're using crafted and/or 11/12* weapons, but if you are in Extra Hard difficulty, you owe it to yourself and everyone in the same party to have decent gear, and there is no excuse not to have a decent 12* weapon paired with 4s units - a simple power/stamina/spirita/soul, for instance, is enough in my book.
I'm a strong advocate of 'good equipment does not equate good player', but when you see three different players in a MBD:Demise run with old-type 11~12* weapons at +5 and 30% and no affixing on weapon or units, you begin to have doubts.

It may only be on ship 02, but playing some emergencies (even as stupidly easy ones as MBD:Intrusion) has become literally impossible.
In the MBD:Demise scheduled yesterday, two chimneys were destroyed by wave 3. I simply gave up. I cannot solo that mission.

Maybe the players feeling the same way I do have been too vehement about explaining to other players how useless and harmful they are, and it has led to SEGA taking action, but if SEGA cared about the community, they'd listen to everyone. Banning the use of the damage parser is akin to cutting off your leg to stop your toe from bleeding.

[Shiyo]

Extra hard needs an ilvl requirement(based on +s/r/tattk and weeapon grind level + rarity?) for EQ's and needs to lock you into your weapon/unit choices.

People running around with full lucky rise units and umbra rods aren't ok.

XH is actually hard enough that leechers and severely undergeared players sabotage runs and shouldn't be allowed in.

There's NOTHING in the game to stop these players from getting to 70, or even 75 on every single class either. No road blocks, no gates, nothing to hinder your progress, You can be a gimp with 0 affix units 3 star weapons and 75 on every class and nothing can be done about you.

That's not acceptable.

edit:
Also, what this does is cause the good players and players in general to complain "these eq's are too hard! XH is too hard! we always fail!" because of so many undergeared/leeching players that don't know any better and will probably never know any better as Sega protects them and coddles them.

Thus, the content gets nerfed, we get easier content and stop getting more difficult content. By then good players have probably already quit(or a lot of them) from frustration, and easy content will cause even more to quit, then the bad players have no one to look up to and nothing to strive for, and end up quitting as well.

After this, the whales start to quit too as there's no one to "show off their 1337 gear" to. Game is now barely alive at this point.

It's a bad situation to be in and leads to even worse things, and Sega is making the WORST possible decision for the health of the game.

It's bad.

[aiMute]

Then you realize that the players you are playing with have changed and allowed you that 300k extra damage. So you may not have improved at all and think you have. Which is a lot worse then not knowing at all. It's better to compare you numbers you see that you are hitting to other people who uses the same class as you. Then, you just need to figure out how you'll hit the enemy and when(to avoid death).
Wot? I have a tool that gives me info about the damage done, DPS, time taken, damage recieved, what PAs did what damage and you tell me to go back to stone age and use numbers of the screen to estimate my effectiveness. Again, wot?



Maybe the players feeling the same way I do have been too vehement about explaining to other players how useless and harmful they are, and it has led to SEGA taking action, but if SEGA cared about the community, they'd listen to everyone. Banning the use of the damage parser is akin to cutting off your leg to stop your toe from bleeding.
Get a good party, friends or teammates, you don't need more than 1 party to carry any EQ and if you can't do that don't blame other people, get better yourself because the game allows you to carry.
It sounds like parser was used as a scapegoat like it'll change anything for bad players, people will just go after their gear or find another way to shit on them if they want...

Extra hard needs an ilvl requirement(based on +s/r/tattk and weeapon grind level + rarity?) for EQ's and needs to lock you into your weapon/unit choices.

No, totally no. I have great gear with Ra but my DPS on new PD sucked because I just switched to class and don't know how to Ra. I used FoBr to level Fo and had better damage with katana than most randoms because I knew how2katana. If you can be useful even in (useful but) shitty gear it's great, adding gearwalls to the game is not.

[jooozek]

gearwalls would be amazing, they would help a lot with filtering out the leeches, it's ridiculous how bad the recent EQs are if you join a block in the last 10 minutes pre-EQ, you will get shitters who run almost naked

[TaigaUC]

That 300k less damage thing makes no sense. You don't judge by who did the most damage to the boss.
You determine effectiveness via damage per second AND relative comparison with other players.
Obviously the person who does more damage in a shorter amount of time will have a higher percentage and DPS = more efficient.

People already went after people for their gear. They've been doing that for years. SEGA doesn't give a shit.

Did an XH PD earlier today. Some EN player had obnoxiously long autowords for everything
They just stood in a corner during Double. Their gear consisted of a +0 20 element Yamato 13 star and a mess of partially grinded units with stock affixes.
Obvious leecher much. Don't even need a damage parser for that.

I keep seeing people with 20 element +0-+2 Yamato 13 stars. Thanks, SEGA.

[TehCubey]

How exactly would you implement item level requirements? In other MMOs, the degree to which you can customize an item is relatively small, but in PSO2 we have affixes which make or break a unit. There are too many variables, and frankly I wouldn't trust Sega not to fuck this up.

Also gear does not equal performance. I saw people with cheapo NT Noxes and budget units performing well. I also saw people with 5+ affix Saiki units and an Austere do less than 1/10th of my total damage. And my damage really isn't that amazing.

Someone with supposedly competent equipment can still be a leecher. Ungrinded red weapons and a mishmash collection of units are a warning sign of course, but not one that catches 100% of examples. Or even most really.

[TaigaUC]

Yes, gear does not equal performance.
I was in an XH Loser a while ago where around 1/3rd of the multi had a billion affix fully grinded 60 element Austere and they all only did about 3% damage each.
Leecher assholes.

[oratank]

I used FoBr to level Fo and had better damage with katana than most randoms because I knew how2katana.

that's not mean you are not one of them your mpa pug just worse than you

[Shiyo]

Yes, gear does not equal performance.
I was in an XH Loser a while ago where around 1/3rd of the multi had a billion affix fully grinded 60 element Austere and they all only did about 3% damage each.
Leecher assholes.
Leechers cannot be fixed or punished. They can grief care free to their hearts content.
It's impossible to fix because of the "rush rush" mentality of EQ's. You can't add a kick from MPA option because people can't join mid EQ mission. You can't inspect people before you start the countdown and then kick them before mission starts because you probably won't find a replacement and you need to rush rush go go because you have to fit in X amount of EQ's during the 30 minutes or you lose out on massive rewards.

The entire EQ structure needs revamped from ground zero.

[Gaentz]

The entire EQ structure needs revamped from ground zero.
Thing is, EQs will never be fixed because it entirely ties into their "Veterans and casuals can play together!" mentality
What better way to force the good players to carry weaker/bad players, wether they do so consciously or unconsciously, than by making all relevant content in a 30 minute slot and saying GO GO GO OR YOU CANT GET BEST GEAR

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Get a good party, friends or teammates, you don't need more than 1 party to carry any EQ and if you can't do that don't blame other people, get better yourself because the game allows you to carry.

Doesn't mean I should be happy carrying XH PD with a Br/Ra who never used weak bullet, and spammed million storm for 2-4k damage an arrow.

Also, I'm in favor of a gear requirement system. It doesn't even have to be something 'endgame' like 3k atk before buffs. It would actually encourage people to learn and use the systems for upgrading gear if they want to do anything.

They said XH was designed with 12*s in mind. Why not enforce it? Leechers, and weak players are a bigger cancer to the game than anything overparse done anyway.

If this game doesn't do something to demand more from its players, the cycle of new difficult eq -> complaints -> nerfs could result in more yamato-like EQs: shit that's literally impossible to fail. Then people will truly be in the right when they wonder what's the point of upgrading gear.






that's not mean you are not one of them your mpa pug just worse than you

Let that sink in, aiMute...

[Saffran]

I don't think slots and raw atk powers are really any indication. I have full defensive / tanking gear and skill tree, but I would never dare to go in a MPA with blatantly "untouched" equipment.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I don't think slots and raw atk powers are really any indication. I have full defensive / tanking gear and skill tree, but I would never dare to go in a MPA with blatantly "untouched" equipment.

No one said it would be perfect, but it would be a step up.

Also, Just about anyone at XH level should have 2k-2.5k atk very easily with any semblance of effort. Hell, I would be in that range if I had 0 affixes, and I have austere, a 200 S atk mag, and +120 atk from class titles.

I think it's at least a good idea for at least forcing people to try proper mag-raising, learning affixing, etc. You know... like how any other RPG would force you to better yourself before taking on tougher stuff.

[Shiyo]

I think it's at least a good idea for at least forcing people to try proper mag-raising, learning affixing, etc. You know... like how any other RPG would force you to better yourself before taking on tougher stuff.
Yeah, that's the thing. If you were to play a single player RPG you'd have to learn how the gear/skill system works and get better to overcome challenges as you progress in the game. In PSO2, you literally never need to do that and just leech EQ's to 75 on every single class.

Nothing in the game forces you to improve yourself. It's disgusting.

[Selphea]

Eh just set your character display to show titles and look for people with 独極の一騎当千

That title means they cleared Heaven & Hell which should be nigh impossibru for a leech player.

I think 2ch are using that gate so hey if your MPA has at least 50% of people with that title you should be ok.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Totally forgot there was a title for that.

What does that actually translate to anyway?

[NoobSpectre]

Totally forgot there was a title for that.

What does that actually translate to anyway?

Single Extremity of One Calvary against Thousands, or to put it simply, One Man Army.

[Selphea]

独 - Doku - Solo
極 - Kyoku - Extreme
の - No - 's
一騎当千 - Ikkitousen - I guess 'Ace'? (Dictionary: http://japanesekanji.nobody.jp/idiom/ikkitousen.htm)

First two words refer to the quest itself but it could be a pun since it describes the second half of the title too.

[oratank]

Eh just set your character display to show titles and look for people with 独極の一騎当千

That title means they cleared Heaven & Hell which should be nigh impossibru for a leech player.

I think 2ch are using that gate so hey if your MPA has at least 50% of people with that title you should be ok.

ok or not you can't change anything anyway lol.for the best way you need to make a specific block to avoid leecher for some eq or premade mpa

[Selphea]

ok or not you can't change anything anyway lol.for the best way you need to make a specific block to avoid leecher for some eq or premade mpa

That's usually the high blocks :wacko:

[Tunga]

After this thread, the word "Elite" lost all meaning.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

After this thread, the word "Elite" lost all meaning.

Very much doubt it had one ever since gaming communities picked up the word.

[Tunga]

Very much doubt it had one ever since gaming communities picked up the word.

:wacko:

[Zyrusticae]

If they want to make casual players affix things, they could start by making it less convoluted. Having to know which affixes boost which other affixes and knowing which pieces of junk gear should have which affixes and putting it all together in multiple stages... it's no wonder hardly anyone even bothers with that shit.

I wish the candy system were the replacement for the entire affix system. It just works so much better.

[Roe]

stat requirements will never be implemented
#1 New players
#2 players without a single class capped they exist you know
#3 Casuals
#4 PSO2 is a casual mmo
#5 it Would detract potential casual spenders
#6 Sega is Designing the game not you guys
So if you don't like the way Sega handles a Sega game then just quit playing a Sega game it's just that simple

[jooozek]

dumbing down systems to cater to people who don't want to learn doesn't really help anyone, if you want to do it cheaper, learn how to affix, don't want to learn? buy at higher price from player shops

[Raujinn]

Wouldnt the title thing not work anyway cause what's stopping me from getting it on a great character and then wearing it on a scrubby alt?

[pkemr4]

i imagine if they dumbed down affixing the affix market would crash wouldn't it?

[Tari]

Wouldnt the title thing not work anyway cause what's stopping me from getting it on a great character and then wearing it on a scrubby alt?
The vast majority of leeches don't even have a great char to begin with.

[isCasted]

Wouldnt the title thing not work anyway cause what's stopping me from getting it on a great character and then wearing it on a scrubby alt?

If you had enough patience to get the title in the first place, you might seem to care about the game enough and know what you are doing. Your performance would be decent even with bad gear.

Of course it's not a perfect way to see who's actually going to help. There's no perfect way. Nothing is stopping people from, say, going AFK as soon as quest starts, no amount of skill or gear would compensate that kind of thing. But still, it works well enough in most cases.

[Sacrificial]

Meh that solo xq title just means you have a Braver to me. KC here KC there.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Meh that solo xq title just means you have a Braver to me. KC here KC there.

I've seen bravers that likely can't. Specifically the ones that hit for 10k guren tessens, since last floor of solo xq is a mini dps race before veil tag teams you with anga. Then there's still persona and the overend oneshot up next. There likely isnt enough KCs to carry even bad bravers through that, and yet I get them in PD mpa pugs.

[pkemr4]

theres nothing stopping people from using half-dolls or Scape dolls to clear it. :wink:

[Tunga]

You can only use one halfdoll unless you want to buy some scape dolls lol

[isCasted]

Well, there was one person who posted a screenshot of their purchase history listing 15 Scape Dolls after that quest clear...

[Tunga]

I didn't use parser all the time, but i did like using it to know how much my builds were doing from time to time. It's kinda like a bicycle computer imo... You don't need it to play/ride but it is nice to know how well/fast you do/go in your activity. It just adds a layer of fun imo.

Now i do find it stupid that one gets called an "Elitist" for wanting to optimize their stuff either in a game or IRL.

[TaigaUC]

The term "elitist" is often used to ridicule, dismiss and negatively portray people who like to improve.
As a result, the general quality of society gets pulled downwards. "You want to improve? You want others to improve too?? You're an elitist!! Disgusting!! Asshole!!"
Real motivational stuff, eh?

The original definition for the term "elitist" is supposed to be "people who believe they are the best/chosen/special".
A true elitist is someone who thinks they're so special that others can't keep up. They do not expect others to be able to perform at the same level.
Elitists don't go around helping others catch up to them. Why would they? They feel great being the only ones miles ahead.
Why would they intentionally create competition to destroy their perceived elitism?

Example: The way Vegeta reacted to Goku surpassing him, when they first fought.
Vegeta wasn't encouraging Goku to improve. He was toying with him, expecting him to never be able to compare.
He didn't share his armor with Goku or give him special training lessons to catch up, did he?

Personally, I like to believe that other people can perform as well as I can, because I don't believe I am that special.
I don't think it's egotistical, elitist or arrogant to expect people to be just as skilled or better. It means I think highly of other people.
But, apparently, people hate that. They want to be looked down upon, so they can complain about being looked down upon, whilst doing nothing to improve.

"Why are you helping me? You think you're so good, huh!? You enjoy that superiority, don't you!? You elitist!!"
Uh, no. I could just not help anyone, and remain "superior" with no competition.
But that doesn't benefit society, and it's asshole behavior. So I don't do that.

[Shiyo]

I got called an elitist for wanting people to show up to and commit to 2-3 hours of raiding time 2-3 days a week in a progression raiding group.

The word has lost ALL meaning to me since then.

[TaigaUC]

Why were they in a raiding group if they didn't want to show up for raiding?
People don't make sense anymore.

[Sonichi]

so they can complain

Why do anything else on the internet. People love to complain about anything and everything. Whether that's someone actually being an asshole, someone enjoying something they don't personally enjoy, or someone "offending" them by trying to help.

[Selphea]

I got called a "gear whore" for wanting team members to have at least +60ATK affixes and 50% +20 crafted Red weapons :wacko:

[Raujinn]

i imagine if they dumbed down affixing the affix market would crash wouldn't it?

Depends on how many people aren't participating in affixing because they find the system too convoluted. The increase in participation may increase demand. There's also the possibility of people doing it for more characters or more people creating weird experimental builds or other things if it because easier to do affixing at all.

Under the current system I feel like a lot of people make successful affixes once then go "fuckit" after that unless some amazing new unit set comes out. It's too risky to do much tine tuning under the current system in my opinion.

But yeah, just my thoughts on potential reasons why it might not cause the market to crash and may potentially even boost the market. The interactions between the various recipes and chains of steps required to make affixes now though are complicated, so it's hard to say. :(

[Shinamori]

Unless they make a set better than Saiki, there's really no reason to make a new affix set unless you're going for something "specific".

[Enforcer MKV]

Under the current system I feel like a lot of people make successful affixes once then go "fuckit" after that unless some amazing new unit set comes out. It's too risky to do much tine tuning under the current system in my opinion.

I for one can confirm.....that some of us don't even do that. I personally just don't have the time [or the desire, quite frankly] to learn how to correctly do high level affixes. I probably haven't tried to seriously do an affix in....3 years?


..........Huh, seeing that typed out actually made me grimace slightly. Curious.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I pretty much affix stuff like once a year at best.

[milranduil]

Unless they make a set better than Saiki, there's really no reason to make a new affix set unless you're going for something "specific".

disagree. saiki is more of a pp/TA unit set whereas austere rear/arm + orbit tail is a much more universal survivability-wise.

edit: at this point, if you don't at least have 95atk on weps, idk i feel thats just lazy or you must be new to the game (as in post-ep4). it costs basically nothing and it's very easy to do with apprentice/-ji soul and modulator. units should be at very least 60atk with some hp OR pp (not both, i get people can be lazy to 4s). soul/atk3/(hp/pp) has been a staple since episode 1, there's just no excuse anymore.

[KazukiQZ]

^'B-but muh fashion! I need those 50m wings accessories! It's my long-life dream in PSO-tschu!'

[SteveCZ]

^'B-but muh fashion! I need those 50m wings accessories! It's my long-life dream in PSO-tschu!'

Fashion first man. Affix later. :innocent:

Easy money anyway. You can do both, if you have tons of characters. :P

[BIG OLAF]

I for one can confirm.....that some of us don't even do that. I personally just don't have the time [or the desire, quite frankly] to learn how to correctly do high level affixes. I probably haven't tried to seriously do an affix in....3 years?


..........Huh, seeing that typed out actually made me grimace slightly. Curious.

Well, the way this """"game"""" has gone, there's no reason to """try""" anymore, really. So, don't feel bad. Actually, if I were you, I'd put your energy into learning how to play an actual good game (or another life skill/hobby/whatever). :wacko:

Man, I can't wait for MHX/Gen.

In my opinion, anyone who's still trying to keep up with the 'PSO2 Arms Race' is totally off their rocker. All there is worth doing anymore in PSO2 is buying clothes/accessories and looking good, really.

[Nyansan]

Fashion first man. Affix later. :innocent:

Easy money anyway. You can do both, if you have tons of characters. :P

Nah man, affix first so those 'gear-whores and '1337 players' wont say stuff about you when you go to an MPA decked with all the latest stuff and leech :wacko:

Seriously though, I feel that most casual and/or new players think that the affixing system is complicated; I once made a friend 90 atk hiei set cuz when I directed him to Selphea's affixing tutorial he only got confused further and didn't want to do affixing 'coz it's too hard'

[ArcaneTechs]

disagree. saiki is more of a pp/TA unit set whereas austere rear/arm + orbit tail is a much more universal survivability-wise.
woah, this was like, a hard read. Gonna be some time before I can recover from this


edit: at this point, if you don't at least have 95atk on weps, idk i feel thats just lazy or you must be new to the game (as in post-ep4). it costs basically nothing and it's very easy to do with apprentice/-ji soul and modulator. units should be at very least 60atk with some hp OR pp (not both, i get people can be lazy to 4s). soul/atk3/(hp/pp) has been a staple since episode 1, there's just no excuse anymore.
But fiddling around with the affix sim is too hard!

Affixing too hard= I'm not actually trying to learn
Affixing too confusing= I'm not looking hard enough into this
Affixing too costly= 10mill tops should be good enough if your being stingy but most likely ppl are Phasion>Gear
Affixing too risky= I haven't learned to affix/the bonuses for max results therefore I'm willing to buy very (sometimes not) pricey units you could have done cheaper

Gotta hold everyones hands these days, I mean ya Sega is very vague about this stuff but there are guides out there, one can search if they would like to improve.

100 atk/6-8 pp should be minimal and not that costly, soul/atk4/flict or mod/fever-easy modo (especially with Touhou soul)

[SteveCZ]

Nah man, affix first so those 'gear-whores and '1337 players' wont say stuff about you when you go to an MPA decked with all the latest stuff and leech :wacko:

Seriously though, I feel that most casual and/or new players think that the affixing system is complicated; I once made a friend 90 atk hiei set cuz when I directed him to Selphea's affixing tutorial he only got confused further and didn't want to do affixing 'coz it's too hard'

The fact that I'm fine with both fashion and gameplay, no one will ever see me with 0 gears anyway.

I don't really care about these gear-whores either. If someone likes to judge, I can judge these people as well; if you can't even get at least a decent outfit for your one and only character, why would I believe you can get grand affixes, cause you're most likely poor in game that you always have to choose between affixing and fashion? Fair enough right? ;-)

But sadly I guess that only works for those who knows how to get money well. My condition is I can buy fashion stuff, AND affixing.

Playing good doesn't mean you only play the game good, but you also know how to get tons of money to get whatever you want without spending real cash every 2 weeks, lol. :D

[Tunga]

But fiddling around with the affix sim is too hard!
woah, this was like, a hard read. Gonna be some time before I can recover from this


But fiddling around with the affix sim is too hard!

Affixing too hard= I'm not actually trying to learn
Affixing too confusing= I'm not looking hard enough into this
Affixing too costly= 10mill tops should be good enough if your being stingy but most likely ppl are Phasion>Gear
Affixing too risky= I haven't learned to affix/the bonuses for max results therefore I'm willing to buy very (sometimes not) pricey units you could have done cheaper

Gotta hold everyones hands these days, I mean ya Sega is very vague about this stuff but there are guides out there, one can search if they would like to improve.

100 atk/6-8 pp should be minimal and not that costly, soul/atk4/flict or mod/fever-easy modo (especially with Touhou soul)

^ Who are you to talk down on me for not wanting to not leech and be decent? Elitist twat! I'm triggered!




Seriously though, I feel that most casual and/or new players think that the affixing system is complicated; I once made a friend 90 atk hiei set cuz when I directed him to Selphea's affixing tutorial he only got confused further and didn't want to do affixing 'coz it's too hard'

I had a friend that didn't play since the DDOS until a bit after TD4 released. Getting him to switch from RaBr melee and his 2K endos that he thought was godly. To decent BrHu 115/30/3 saiki set and 12* was a pain. I gifted him a 12* 50% evil katana and a grandiva bow (ungrinded & unaffixed) and those almost made him quit the game lol. He then went after phasion rather than finishing his saiki set .Plus teaching him the game mechanics, Skills and affixing system was just a process... Luckily by the time he got a 13* (he got a 39% ares katana in less than 10 angas) he was more focused on gearing (my guess is that he overdosed on phasion ).

[Great Pan]

Finally, I can leech peacefully.

[LordKaiser]

Too bad clones where removed from that last rainy EQ... Now if you want some , you must either get abducted or grind AQ for hours and hours...

Anyway if that parser tool only collected your hits only so you could improve then that would be ok but it records everyone damage and it was misused so thank to them and their stupid drama it will be taken out and if not SEGA will ban you since they want to keep their community friendly. If you only used it to improve then I feel sorry for you but for the greater good, your needs will be sacrificed. There's some people that I know that I'm glad that they can't use it anymore.

Also if a party have many very strong people there's always people who by the time they try to kill a mob, that mob will be dead and their PAs will hit air so don't come with the BS that it helps you weed out "leechers" even when they all are trying to do their best.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Also if a party have many very strong people there's always people who by the time they try to kill a mob, that mob will be dead and their PAs will hit air so don't come with the BS that it helps you weed out "leechers" even when they all are trying to do their best.

For the most part, no one cares about those kinds of EQs/LQs as long as you try. I've played sword Hu/Fi back when lightning Fo/Fi was a thing in VH. I know what it's like. I'm also well aware parsing means next to nothing in TDs when I assign myself to an area/tower lane and stay there unless wave budget stops spawns there.

My salt about people's lack of damage is confined to boss EQs (PD), and to a much lesser extent yamato (slow mpas = me actually running through all my 180 PP during groups despite my +20 killing bonus ring as katana br/hu. No I don't guren dash).

[Tunga]

No I don't guren dash).

Wait, so do you actually use your legs to travel?

[Kokurokoki]

Well, the way this """"game"""" has gone, there's no reason to """try""" anymore, really. So, don't feel bad. Actually, if I were you, I'd put your energy into learning how to play an actual good game (or another life skill/hobby/whatever). :wacko:

Man, I can't wait for MHX/Gen.

In my opinion, anyone who's still trying to keep up with the 'PSO2 Arms Race' is totally off their rocker. All there is worth doing anymore in PSO2 is buying clothes/accessories and looking good, really.

That's because SEGA makes great games. :wacko:

Honestly their system is all over the place. I feel like the devs don't even know what they're doing anymore. It's quite obvious with the random Las Vegas level that came out of fucking nowhere. Then there's the gathering system, which has no relevance outside of some extra dailies and grinding more items to grind your rings. Like... the fuck's even the point of cooking shit if it has no use other than the gathering gimmick which is completely isolated from the rest of the gameplay mechanics?

Like... yeah the Vegas thing was cute and funny for a few days, but when you realize that future content is probably gonna be a ton of troll shit like this... :/

[Shiyo]

I got called a "gear whore" for wanting team members to have at least +60ATK affixes and 50% +20 crafted Red weapons :wacko:

My BF who has been playing for less than 2 weeks already has 3 affix +60 attk hien thingy units and a +10 50 element red weapon(No potential unlocked though because you need the new expensive photon things to unlock it and not sure how to get them).

edit: He has 9 PP 70 ATTK on his weapon too.

[Selphea]

My BF who has been playing for less than 2 weeks already has 3 affix +60 attk hien thingy units and a +10 50 element red weapon(No potential unlocked though because you need the new expensive photon things to unlock it and not sure how to get them).

Gold badges. Farm LQ. If not Challenge Quest.

[Ziel]

Oh well, i used to parse to see if im actually doing decent damage, since every Fo master race was one-shotting everything in all EQs and i almost never get out of the 10-8 tier in TDs (i was worried before i knew the scoring system is a hoax back when i started) so i wanted to make sure i contributed.

39813[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER]I dont need parse to spot shit like this anyway

[TaigaUC]

Lazy people sure come up with a lot of derogatory offensive terms to excuse their shittiness.
If they have a legitimate reason they could just give that, instead of attacking other people who don't deserve it.
Assholes.

"You put effort in to be better and want me to catch up? Well, you're a [insert here] whore! Hah, now I feel good about not being better!!"
Sad. I wonder if people were always like this throughout history.
I mean, we have stuff like schools nowadays lowering the standard just so everyone can pass. It's no wonder nobody wants to improve anymore.

[Shiyo]

Oh well, i used to parse to see if im actually doing decent damage, since every Fo master race was one-shotting everything in all EQs and i almost never get out of the 10-8 tier in TDs (i was worried before i knew the scoring system is a hoax back when i started) so i wanted to make sure i contributed.

39813[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER]I dont need parse to spot shit like this anyway
Nothing in the game stops them from having a severely underleveled sub. You can't kick or report them. You just have to sit there and suffer through having a leeching gimp in your MPA and are punished by it, when THEY should be punished or locked out of the content.

XH EQ's should require a 50+ sub class and at least 2k of your main attack stat and +10(20 if NT?) on your units and weapon.

The worst part is since there is no requirements to do content outside main job level these leeches infest EQ's and then it causes people to complain the EQ's are too hard and need nerfed, so in return they get nerfed and we get easier content. This brings the ENTIRE game down by trying to coddle leeching newb lazy bad players. Content gets too easy and loses all depth and challenge and people start losing interest in playing.

Thus we get content like yamato - unfailable loot pinatas. The future of PSSO2 looks bleak, all because of coddling lazy bad players.

[SteveCZ]

"You put effort in to be better and want me to catch up? Well, you're a [insert here] whore! Hah, now I feel good about not being better!!"
Sad. I wonder if people were always like this throughout history.

I'm way more worried to those who even worry about being called gear whores. I hope that doesn't stop them from doing better or hold them back (I'm surely hope not). In Selphea's case, I honestly don't care what they call me if I were him/her, I need the +60 gears minimum cause reasons.

Before I am a solo player, I was one of the team who keeps trying to maximize and optimize things. We know back then, with, say, +45 will leave you more PAs/techs to spam cause lack of damage, and so the timing for everything breaks, just because you can't kill enemies in timely order. A simple +15 per unit sounds silly, but that's the fact we faced. It was so important I reallly have no time to care about those who aren't qualified or what they think about us.

Those who are calling him/her gear whores are definitely off the book; they don't exist. So why even pay attention to them either anyway. Got more work to do than even care about those kind of feelings, nor bother being irritated by them. It only leads to pointless drama.

[milranduil]

woah, this was like, a hard read. Gonna be some time before I can recover from this

?????

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Nothing in the game stops them from having a severely underleveled sub. You can't kick or report them. You just have to sit there and suffer through having a leeching gimp in your MPA and are punished by it, when THEY should be punished or locked out of the content.

XH EQ's should require a 50+ sub class and at least 2k of your main attack stat and +10(20 if NT?) on your units and weapon.

The worst part is since there is no requirements to do content outside main job level these leeches infest EQ's and then it causes people to complain the EQ's are too hard and need nerfed, so in return they get nerfed and we get easier content. This brings the ENTIRE game down by trying to coddle leeching newb lazy bad players. Content gets too easy and loses all depth and challenge and people start losing interest in playing.

Thus we get content like yamato - unfailable loot pinatas. The future of PSSO2 looks bleak, all because of coddling lazy bad players.

I'd swear you were copying my posts or something.

[Selphea]

Nothing in the game stops them from having a severely underleveled sub. You can't kick or report them. You just have to sit there and suffer through having a leeching gimp in your MPA and are punished by it, when THEY should be punished or locked out of the content.

XH EQ's should require a 50+ sub class and at least 2k of your main attack stat and +10(20 if NT?) on your units and weapon.

The worst part is since there is no requirements to do content outside main job level these leeches infest EQ's and then it causes people to complain the EQ's are too hard and need nerfed, so in return they get nerfed and we get easier content. This brings the ENTIRE game down by trying to coddle leeching newb lazy bad players. Content gets too easy and loses all depth and challenge and people start losing interest in playing.

Thus we get content like yamato - unfailable loot pinatas. The future of PSSO2 looks bleak, all because of coddling lazy bad players.

Actually after buffed PD, the next thing in the pipeline is Odin which features a MPA wipe and autofail if they fail the DPS check.

[TaigaUC]

Just feels like the majority (at least, in the West) are people who would rather name call others than improve themselves.
It's like all those assholes who can't draw for shit, and people shower them with encouragement.
But if anyone tries to give them constructive criticism, they rage really, really hard.

Most people nowadays just seem to want quick gratification.
Their hearts are so fragile, they can't handle even the slightest bit of negativity, even if it's for the sake of improvement.
If people were always like that, we'd probably still be stuck in caveman times.
"Look, I figured out how to make fire and wheels! I'll teach you!"
"You elitist whore! I beat you to death with my club!"

[Zephyrion]

I do think Yamato was made and released purposedly for the new influx of people from PS4 along with the easy files. You'll notice that just after that, they gave us buffed PD and files that requires at least some kind of commitment, and Yamato is progressively disappearing from the scheduled EQs. So yes, the did coddle new players, but I think SEGA is still trying to decide which way to go about it (would also explain why files are bound to expire after a certain time, they're probably not even sure whether they should make this the gateway for getting weapons, or try to find another way around it)

So yeah Sega screws things up, but I do think they are walking on eggs regarding that particular matter, and won't do many more "just stroll around" EQs, we'll just have to wait and see

[Raujinn]

And to think people are eager that Odin will have a really harsh DPS check, the kind where a single leech could doom the entire run but you might not know this until you get to the end. So you and 10 other people in decent gear try your hardest but because of that one guy none of you get any drops at all due to how the quest works. This can only end well.

(Odds are good that the DPS check will probably be carryable by one person...)

e: To clarify, I'm not saying challenging content is bad or anything, it's just under the current climate of "anyone can join" there are some real limits you have to consider. Plus you people whine enough about leechers when you're guaranteed to clear the quest anyway! So large part of the point is when it suddenly does matter or you'll get nothing the salt is going to flow.


disagree. saiki is more of a pp/TA unit set whereas austere rear/arm + orbit tail is a much more universal survivability-wise.


Incidentally.. is there a reason against a full Austere set? Cause I'm pondering it seeing as my main is heading towards a couple of Austere weapons now and doesn't have an Orbit to take advantage of that set bonus.

[Shiyo]

Actually after buffed PD, the next thing in the pipeline is Odin which features a MPA wipe and autofail if they fail the DPS check.

DPS checks yet no in game parser
No requirements for XH MPA content?

It's going to be a disaster.

[Xaeris]

It's an LQ. The mobs are 75. The expectations for Odin are waaaay too high.

[DrCatco]

DPS checks yet no in game parser
No requirements for XH MPA content?

It's going to be a disaster.
*Sigh* inb4 "oden 2 hard! Mai de pe ez no enoug! Nerfin plz!

[TaigaUC]

If people complain about Odin, they will just nerf it anyway.
I can't imagine what it'll be like, so I can't really say anything yet.

About my previous post, I think people probably just need to grow some thicker skin while they're growing up. Feels like people get babied way too much now.
In a way, it's not entirely their own fault because that's how society is raising kids now. Once you've grown up, it's much harder to change.

I keep thinking maybe it's a side effect of peaceful convenient modern times.
I remember hearing that during Hurricane Sandy (I think), casualty rate in major cities was high.
But casualties were much lower for people living on tiny islands because they're used to that kind of thing.
Most people are only as strong as they need to be to survive, I guess.

[Globbi]

I think I have good solution to the "people compaining about leeches" problem:
SAGE should simply recycle some of the unused Blocks and change them to a new type that has an entrance requirement.

The requirement would be a koffie license, a title or even better having at least one approved special MySet thingy.
One would have to finish something like the solo XQ which would save an "approved" Set for that Block and on there you would only be able to switch between "approved" Sets with the weapon/armor equip button greyed out.

This would split the casual from the serious players but both sides would be able to enjoy the game in their own way.

Now then, have I overlooked some major flaw?

[Agastya]

About my previous post, I think people probably just need to grow some thicker skin while they're growing up. Feels like people get babied way too much now. yeah people have realized that being a jerk to other people all the time isn't cool so we're not doing it anymore, crazy how that works

however
the rest of this post


I keep thinking maybe it's a side effect of peaceful convenient modern times.
I remember hearing that during Hurricane Sandy (I think), casualty rate in major cities was high.
But casualties were much lower for people living on tiny islands because they're used to that kind of thing.
Most people are only as strong as they need to be to survive, I guess.

are you fucking serious right now

are you seriously saying people died to a natural disaster because they were coddled


this reply is more than you deserve you arrogant fuck. you cant just put a disclaimer in your signature to say a post isnt meant to be toxic and then get away scott free with just saying "a hundred people died to a natural disaster because they were raised too softly :)"

how the fuck did this thread even get to this point? can't any of you inbred shitstains get over the fact that your fellow players in a pve game aren't always going to be up to your standards? i'd tell you people to just make friends and only play with those but from what i can see in this thread i can tell that's just clearly fucking impossible for people here. you'll all burst into goddamn flames if you have to be nice to somebody.


One would have to finish something like the solo XQ which would save an "approved" Set for that Block and on there you would only be able to switch between "approved" Sets with the weapon/armor equip button greyed out.
jesus fucking christ

[Sonichi]

Chill out dude lmao.

[Enforcer MKV]

yeah people have realized that being a jerk to other people all the time isn't cool so we're not doing it anymore, crazy how that works

however
the rest of this post



are you fucking serious right now

are you seriously saying people died to a natural disaster because they were coddled


this reply is more than you deserve you arrogant fuck. you cant just put a disclaimer in your signature to say a post isnt meant to be toxic and then get away scott free with just saying "a hundred people died to a natural disaster because they were raised too softly :)"

how the fuck did this thread even get to this point? can't any of you inbred shitstains get over the fact that your fellow players in a pve game aren't always going to be up to your standards? i'd tell you people to just make friends and only play with those but from what i can see in this thread i can tell that's just clearly fucking impossible for people here. you'll all burst into goddamn flames if you have to be nice to somebody.


jesus fucking christ

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to lambast people and expect them to be nice to people while you yourself jump down someone's throat when you don't like what they said?

Taiga's line of thought isn't even really wrong. If people live in areas where they aren't expecting some form of disaster to happen, and thus don't prepare for said disaster, if the disaster then DOES occur, it stands to reason that people who are unprepared would have a higher likelihood of being killed depending on the severity of the disaster. Conversely people who are used to and expect this kind of thing to happen would be able to better survive. It's by no means guaranteed in either case, of course, but it is somewhat realistic.

Nobody is saying that's a good thing. It's just comments on a matter of preparedness.

Can we go back to talking about the game now?

[Shiyo]

y
jesus fucking christ
You're insane.

[Xaeris]

This whole thread has been histrionics, no need to be clutching pearls now.

[jooozek]

i am become god

[TaigaUC]

are you seriously saying people died to a natural disaster because they were coddled
Are you saying casualty rates wouldn't be less if people were used to dealing with natural disasters? If what I heard is true, then it would certainly imply that.

There was an incident recently where an old lady was lost in I think Arizona for a long time, and she survived because she had survival training.
I also know someone who survived Hurricane Katrina, and they only survived because they're exceedingly resourceful.
They were missing for about a month or two, and I was very worried. Did what I could to help track them down.

For the record, I even worry that if I was caught in a natural disaster, I wouldn't be able to survive because I don't have sufficient training or experience.

And, like I said, the Hurricane Sandy thing is just what I heard, and I was reminded of it.
Doesn't mean it's exactly the same situation, or that it's 100% correct, or that it's my personal opinion.
I'm expressing that people should be better trained for stuff so they can deal with it better, in general.

Maybe you should learn to read properly before attacking people.
The disclaimer is there exactly for your kind of overreaction.

[BIG OLAF]

I've been through many hurricanes, and I can say with complete certainty that us down here in Florida couldn't give a fuck about anything less than a Category 5 storm.

However, up where Sandy hit, they never experience that shit, had no idea what to expect, massively under-prepared for it, and paid the price. Not 100% their fault, as their buildings are most likely not built up to the tropical weather standards the buildings down here are, but that's how it goes.

Anyway, that all has nothing to do with PSO2, so that's enough of that.

[TaigaUC]

Yes, I was in no way implying that it's of the same importance.
And obviously not trying to upset anyone or act "arrogant".

A lot of the things I say, I'm well aware that I've probably made the same mistakes.
I never said I was better than anyone else. I think.

[Zanverse]

Since this thread has completely derailed, I thought I'd just ask a question that I've been super curious about:

1) What are your definitions of 'Elitist' and 'Leechers/Leeching'? Because so many people aren't on the same page at all about what they mean,and that's an issue in itself. I've seen that, apparently when someone's main class is level 75 but their sub class is a low-level when going into an MPA, it's considered leeching. I just don't understand that, because that's what a lot of people do in order to feed a bit of EXP to their sub class while they aren't playing that class as main. Isn't that the point of a sub class? Idk, someone educate me please.

[Tunga]

There are always unused blocks. Sega could take like 3-4 of them and lock them behind a requirement for you to join them. The requirement could be to clear solo XQ to access the block and this requirement will only work per character. So you cant just clear in on one decent character and then leech with scrubby alts after.




1) What are your definitions of 'Elitist' and 'Leechers/Leeching'?

- "Elitist" : Some annoying snob that thinks he's the best and doesn't help anyone improve.
- "Leech" : Some annoying dude that doesn't do anything on purpose but is the first one to go after rewards. New players and noobs are not leeches.

These are my opinion on the subject.

[TaigaUC]

I was thinking about people getting upset so easily whenever anyone tries to encourage improvement.
Or anytime it's something that hurts, people prefer to turn a blind eye and try to forget. Then we end up making the same mistakes again.
It's not just in video games, I see it everywhere now. That's why I started thinking of other examples, and got carried away.

I apologize for straying too far off-topic.
I'm hungry and a little sleep-deprived, so please be a little lenient.

Elitist:
- Someone who thinks having the absolute best gear is mandatory despite everyone already being super efficient, to the point of kicking/blocking people.
- Someone who goes around boasting about having the absolute best gear.
- Probably someone who always blames everyone but themselves? Maybe.

Leecher:
- Someone who sits around doing nothing. Seen a lot of people doing that.
- Someone with super ultra terrible gear who contributes less than 3% or so, and dies non-stop. If you can't do enough damage, at least keep yourself alive.
- Someone with the best gear ever, and still contributes less than 3%. I mean, what the hell.
- Someone with a really bizarre class combo at really low levels.
- Someone who intentionally wears full lucky drop/exp boost gear with bad stats, knowing they will perform like shit.

I personally don't think subclass being too low matters too much, depending on combination, setup, gear, etc.
I'm pretty sure I've topped damage meters with not-so-high subs before. Or I accidentally forgot to change class and still performed decently.
A good player will still make do with what they've got, although there will still be limits to what they can do.

And I'm kinda hesitant to call someone a leecher if they are trying hard to play well.
At the same time, if they were trying hard enough, they should at least grind their units and stuff like that.

I think elitists usually don't try to help people get better gear, they just demand everyone have it.

[milranduil]

Incidentally.. is there a reason against a full Austere set? Cause I'm pondering it seeing as my main is heading towards a couple of Austere weapons now and doesn't have an Orbit to take advantage of that set bonus.

Just that orbit tail can be bought for a cheap sum of 2m meseta for basically the same thing (resists + 70hp/5pp vs resists + 50hp/7pp). The aus vs orbit has nothing to do with set bonus for me personally. It's just about their inherent boosts including strike/ranged/tech/element resists and a nice chunk of hp. Orbit tail is 2mil mes vs aus leg is 50torana/nero + inv leg.

[Raujinn]

Fair enough. Yeah Austere set is something I'd like but Invades being so absurdly rare and as a result kinda expensive does put me off seeking it.

レッグ／インヴェリーフ starts at 4M, アーム／インヴェンド around 10M and リア／インヴェルム around 9M as of checking just now, in case anyone's curious.

[milranduil]

yeah it sucks the rear/arm are so expensive, but it's definitely worth it. it's absurd how much less damage you take from stuff compared to crafted saiki.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

yeah it sucks the rear/arm are so expensive, but it's definitely worth it. it's absurd how much less damage you take from stuff compared to crafted saiki.

and SEGA like the assholes they are 1: released austere units late, and 2: didn't put invade units in Zeig's shop.

I just refuse to upgrade to units with 0 resale value, especially after I sold either the arms or legs before austere units came out. I am not paying ~23mil for 3 units, and still have to fork over dozens of millions to affix them after the fact for +80 atk, some HP, and some resistances over saiki that I can't even sell back when I'm done with them.

I'm just really salty about how they handled the units.

[Sonichi]

The attack bonus for all austere set is still 60 attack like Saiki, the Leg + Weapon bonus is 80 Defence.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The attack bonus for all austere set is still 60 attack like Saiki, the Leg + Weapon bonus is 80 Defence.

It appears I was mistaken once more, and brought great shame to my keyboard.

I shall commit seppuku.

At least I die with less of a reason to care for austere units.

How is austere worth the price tag again?

[milranduil]

at this point, i've dumped so much meseta on 13*s that i don't even care if it extends to units at this point. just means i farm more meseta anyway '.'

[TaigaUC]

Didn't know Invade/Austere units had that much more defense.

[Skye-Fox713]

I for one can confirm.....that some of us don't even do that. I personally just don't have the time [or the desire, quite frankly] to learn how to correctly do high level affixes. I probably haven't tried to seriously do an affix in....3 years?


..........Huh, seeing that typed out actually made me grimace slightly. Curious.

I can grasp some of the ideas for affixing for using low rarity units for the fodder for an increased chance of affix set and certain affixes will increase the affix chance of others. I haven't done much affixing because of the DuDu rng. (90% chance of success with a 90% chance of failure.)

[SteveCZ]

I haven't done much affixing because of the DuDu rng. (90% chance of success with a 90% chance of failure.)

If this is your reason, you got to perform a quick statistics for Dudu, not gamble it. For example, if you calculate that 3 out of 4 tries will fail, then you'd know that you will prepare 4 fodders or more. Also the 100% rule.

But if you like extreme sport, I'd say why not (gambling with him). :D

[Sakarisei]

To be honest, if you want to play a game with a tool like that, I recommend you playing WoW or TESO. This game is completely useless for things like that since PSO2 is not made for this. The only "reason" that I see for using the Damage Parser is for doing more than three times certain EQs for looting the drop, which is by far the best drop in comparison with the other quests ingame. Furthermore, if people really want an official tool like the Damage Parser in PSO2, people should demand to SEGA to balance the classes. Otherwise, there will be a certain point when people will copy the same class combo and the same build, making the game a very bored one...

[TyroneSama]

Otherwise, there will be a certain point when people will copy the same class combo and the same build, making the game a very bored one...
This is definitely already a thing.

[udon-GE]

general rule for me is when affixing, if it isn't 100%, it still 50/50. Any " x try in y try will success" is just an after affixing result statistic.

[Destino]

Yeah it's a good thing that SEGA started to ban softwares. There are no need to jack off to damage as it will not save you from everything

[Sakarisei]

Yeah it's a good thing that SEGA started to ban softwares. There are no need to jack off to damage as it will not save you from everything

I not necessarily agree with your opinion. However, PSO2 is an useless game when the only reason to deal top tier damage is for looting items. There is basically no challenge in PSO2, and there is basically no reason to get another role or even class when the only goal is dealing max damage for looting, with the useless reason that drop rate of the items in this game is extremely low...