What is with the elitism within this community?

[Crayzus]

I was reading through this thread

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?236347-Planned-Adjustments-EQs-Special-Blocks-and-Solo-XQ/page4

and most of what I see seems rather elitist. People claim that if a person plays a certain class combination then they are bad or using something"cheap". People also talk like a person attempting to get better gear through high difficulty EQs should not be allowed.

In particular this quote "Well, I guess players who join Perennial Apocalypse with 11* weapons at 24% element and +5 grind cannot really complete that EX mission, heh, so it at least gets rid of them." -Hrith

Umm, why is this a bad thing? If someone is using weaker gear its clear that they are simply trying to get stronger by completing the higher difficulty EQs. Isn't the entire purpose of completing these quests to get the fragments for the best weapons in the game?

Not just in this thread but in most threads I read there seems to be a pompous attitude resonating.

Why does the community behave this way?

[Poyonche]

Because not grinding weapons to +10(or +30 if NT) or units to +10 is cancerous and can make your MPA lose precious DPS for EQs like PD or Cubegatsu. You don't need to do Perennial Apocalypse in XH to grind ur weapons to the max, do you ? :wacko:

I am not elitist but this is the only thing I would like : seeing everyone with +10 units and +10(+30) weapons.

[Xaeris]

Okay, I clearly have no idea what "elitist" means anymore if being dissatisfied with players who walk into XH Apocalypse with unprepped 11*s is elitist now.

[Altiea]

You know, this is a pretty big generalization if I ever saw one.

Also, here's the thing. It's not wrong to enter XH Apocalypse with 11* gear. This I understand. However, if you have access to XH, then you have the resources at your fingertips to at least get your weaker gear to maximum value so you're at least prepped to farm for the good stuff. Taking weaker gear into endgame content without upping the stuff first is just being lazy.

[Gestriden]

Yeah at the least get your gear to +10 I think, or +30 if you're using NT weapons.

I don't care if people don't have affixes on their weapons. Yeah it helps a lot but same time affixing is EXPENSIVE and not everyone has that grind life to go and get that meseta. But at least get the bare minimal done.

[Shadowstarkirby]

People who expect a certain level of competency in a team environment are not elitist.

In this game, there are bad class combinations. EQs require you to rush them to get the best rewards. Bad class combinations get in the way of that by having poor damage/utility. Play your Fo/Hu by yourself or with your friends on your own time, not in TD4 with people who want Torana Fragments, they shouldn't have to carry your useless ass because you want to "play for fun".

Let me be clear, no one here is expecting you to have a max grinded, max element, max potential 13* (even though it's so easy to do just that these days) coupled with 5s 150 ATK/6 PP affixed Austere Units. A +30 10//11* NT with Hiei Units is not asking much, hell, it's not asking anything at all. If you can't do that with a single weapon with the free 2m meseta you earn from Klotho's quests come XH difficulty, then no we're not expected to be happy about it, you're just being lazy or cheap, there's no excuse.

[Shinmarizu]

Elitism is an attitude of superiority of one over another. It is opinion and thus subjective. If someone thinks he or she is better than you because of the gear they have, and discriminates against you because of that, that can be thought of as elitism.

For the most part, what I see normally when it comes to performance and gear checks is frustration that some players are not doing their due diligence. People can be uninformed or ignorant when it comes to their gear (poor choices of gear, max element, max grind) and some understanding of the basics when it comes to improving gear can fix that.

Would you bring an 11* weapon at 24% element and +5 grind to XH PD? I wouldn't. That affects my performance, and thus I contribute less to the Quest. It also gives the impression that I'm lazy, leeching or I don't know what I'm doing. At the very least, I would bring my current gear to its full potential before I attempt to obtain better gear.

The discrimination that arises as a side-product of this frustration can be seen as elitist.

[MaeIstrom]

Even a newbie like me have a +30 Nox weapon at 50% element (I just got Invade to tell the truth) and a full ex3 Hiei set +10
with atk/hp affix so I guess it's not hard at all.
I don't even play that much and I waste most of my meseta with fashion and random things...

[Cure Shock]

Considering that getting high tier gears and being good at a particular class is one of the main goals of this game. It's pretty much easy to reach a "pro" lvl in PSO2, since it comes naturally while lvling up, but if you feel you're still clumsy and weak with your classes, then it's better that you avoid XH for a while, simply because it would be frustrating for you and for the MPA.

Honestly, I tried many MMOs, as everyone here did I guess, and imho this is the easiest BUT the funniest gameplay I tried so far. No roles, no PVP, no limits when it comes about joining MPAs with particular low-level gears, and it allows one of the widest character personalization I tried so far. Except for TD, you hardly ever fail any EQ. And I really like it, honestly. I really like to play it.
Of course, the fact that you can join a XH MPA with any class combos and with any gears means that if you make a bad class combos with low-tier gears you will slow overall DPS, at the point that you could result completely useless to the MPA. IMHO, there's nothing funny in this. It's also frustrating for you, since you won't play properly.
There are many combo classes you can try and being good at it, but someone will never work. The fact that the game allows you to choose Fo/Hu doesn't mean that it works. That's okay if you're still low-lvl and you wanna try by youself how some combo classes and weps work until you reach XH, but, at this point, if you join a XH MPA EQ (and even a SH one, since Magatsu and Loser can be pretty unnerving if people start to derp around), a good playing level is generally required, and there's nothing funny in dying continuously or not using some key skills (ex. no WB if you're Ra)

As I said before, getting high-tier gears is one of the main goals of this game (and very easy to afford, considering all the NTs and sheets), as well as figuring out how to play properly with your classes. That's not elitism, but it's like pretending to be good at a fighing game smashing all the buttons of your pad randomly. That's pretty much a bad way to play.

My 2 cents.

[MaeIstrom]

Considering that getting high tier gears and being good at a particular class is one of the main goals of this game. It's pretty much easy to reach a "pro" lvl in PSO2, since it comes naturally while lvling up, but if you feel you're still clumsy and weak with your classes, then it's better that you avoid XH for a while, simply because it would be frustrating for you and for the MPA.


This is what I am doing right now, I just played on XH once but that was not cool...

[Dammy]

complaining about ungrinded gear is elitist now ? wow

[Vatallus]

This has to be a troll post because who seriously thinks it is ok to walk into any XH quest without a max grinded weapon. Sure when XH was new none of us had 13*s but we still had max grinded 10/11/12 stars.

Basic advancement in the game tells you to fully grind weapons, fully grind units, and use proper builts. But even the basics are too hard for some people. So thankfully as Hrith said in that other topic. We won't be dealing with people that can't even be bothered to grind their gear anymore after these blocks show up.

[CoWorker]

i remember doing a Perennial Apocalypse, and i was late so i had to join a lower XH block.. and oh man, oh man.... i had to CARRY 11 undergeared people who had really really bad DPS and the run takes 28 MINUTES to even clear....

i just wanted the stones and the incompetency of these people while carrying them ISNT EVEN FUN

[IchijinKali]

Reads topic and the post
. . .
Reads it again
. . .
Reads the page the 'elitism' is located at
. . .
So elitism is now about informing others, nicely or harshly, about how to improve themselves? Wow just wow dude.

That forum was all about SEGA's new implications on how there is a plan in the works to create blocks that can only be accessed by those that complete certain criteria. The problem with it is that SEGA sucks at that kind of stuff making their plan rather pointless because of how easily the requirement can be circumvented. What the posters were trying to do was figure out a way to make it so it actually works for all types not just broken combos, coughbrhucough.

Problem is alot of people with alot of opinions on how the test should work. One guy made a list of what their gear and whatnot should be like, but people shot him down because HP on Forces and Techers is quite low and he was calling for 800+ which would cause them to reaffix to get that HP severely hindering their abilities. Others want it based on quests. Some question if Ult will even be worth it, doubt it as nothing beats Austure right now.

If that is your definition of elitism then why are you playing any game that involves working with others?

[Chdata]

Because lazy people who aren't willing to do even basic upgrades that don't actually cost that much have been plaguing the game with leeching for ages. It's not fun for 12 players if a few are bringing the whole ship down.

[Zephyrion]

I'll just chime in and try to give a different approach to this, although I agree with what was said

If you put those posts back in perspective, SEGA was talking about making locked blocks for content that will be harder than XH (UQ Amduscia being a start). Now I don't know if you've ever been in Ultimate, but this mode is ruthless if you don't have proper gear : enemies are fast, unpredictabe, resilient, and can mow you down without notice, not to mention hyperactive bosses, and the corruption mechanic that can make things go out of hand quick if you're not used to dealing with it

In this kind of mode, improper gear makes the party go slower if you're 12 and all is well, but for smaller parties, having bad gear can actively ruin a party, and also your own fun (Dying every 5 seconds because Leone decided to sneeze at you, and not being able to help your party clear mobs to avoid aberration to spread and havoc to ensue ? Not my definition of fun)

I'm honestly okay with people being undergeared in EQ, they've reached the lv70 limit, sure they should make effort to get better gear and be useful, but there's nothing preventing them from entering, and that's fine by me. However, If we're talking about quests where a few undergeared players can ruin the party, then yeah, one would expect people to have gear that matches the difficulty of the content proposed

Now to stop my rambling and repeating what was said in other posts.

[vantpers]

I have only really seen UQ go out of hand in trio/duo runs. Not even release Naberius was bad enough to make someone go into campship exception being 4/12 and lower MPAs. Normal Ultimate Lilipa run consists on Ra/Hu putting WB on Anga and it instantly skipping to phase two where another WB won't even make it move. God forbids the same Ra/Hu puts WB on the head of Leone and someone is smart enough to quickly delivery a few PAs to it, because once WB is on the weakpoint head Leone usually won't be moving again.

[Zephyrion]

I have only really seen UQ go out of hand in trio/duo runs. Not even release Naberius was bad enough to make someone go into campship exception being 4/12 and lower MPAs. Normal Ultimate Lilipa run consists on Ra/Hu putting WB on Anga and it instantly skipping to phase two where another WB won't even make it move. God forbids the same Ra/Hu puts WB on the head of Leone and someone is smart enough to quickly delivery a few PAs to it, because once WB is on the weakpoint head Leone usually won't be moving again.

Exactly my point, UQ is only made trivial by mpas with proper gear, because you can destroy stuff before it has time to move. But in smaller parties, everybody must pull their weight, otherwise things can quickly degenerate. Also UQ has been made trivial by the shower of accessible *13, which are a huge power upgrade. Hopefully, Amduscia EQ will adjust itself to what Lilipa and Nab were at the start.

[Korima]

Forget all the post and only read mine.

Do whatever you want, if Sega allows it, then is acceptable.

[nguuuquaaa]

Forget all the post and only read mine.

Do whatever you want, if Sega allows it, then is acceptable.

Tell me your name so I can join your TD/PD MPA while carrying an uncrafted +0 Axeon. It's allowed right? :wacko:

[Korima]

Tell me your name so I can join your TD/PD MPA while carrying an uncrafted +0 Axeon. It's allowed right? :wacko:

Yes it is allowed.

If you don't want that, send your complains to SEGA.

[Flaoc]

no its completely unacceptable to do that stop just stop also if people go into pd without grinding their gear and affixing it quite frankly they are lazy as hell and probably make sure phasion comes before gear (i phasion too but gear comes 1st)

[Korima]

It is acceptable, if you use hacks is unaccetaptable and that's why Sega cares about the reports with that.

If the company doesn't care about this topic, you should complain to Sega to change that.

[Flaoc]

or you could stop catering to the leeching morons thanks but i guess its ok you like bad mpa right????

[Korima]

Complain about this is like the people who only use ranged-fireball attacks on fighting games and they don't know how to deal with them, what thing happened with this? people complained about this and some games offer options to deal with them but others no, why? because other prefer that.

A game has rules, if you don't break the rules, you are fine.
If other users complain about this, they can send their complains to Sega to change the rules or move to other game that has different rules.

[Sirius-91]

Okay, I clearly have no idea what "elitist" means anymore if being dissatisfied with players who walk into XH Apocalypse with unprepped 11*s is elitist now.
Every game is like that. Just trying to be informative and describing a relatively easy process will get you called out as elitist, which is utterly insane. People who do these things do so because they fail to realize it is a problem. They think it's hilarious or that the people will carry them and many have done so throughout the years, and that there alone is horrifying, because that usually says a lot of the person.


Complain about this is like the people who only use ranged-fireball attacks on fighting games and they don't know how to deal with them, what thing happened with this? people complained about this and some games offer options to deal with them but others no, why? because other prefer that.

A game has rules, if you don't break the rules, you are fine.
If other users complain about this, they can send their complains to Sega to change the rules or move to other game that has different rules.

Sportsmanship. Etiquette. Things that make a game fun for all, while being a sport about it.

However, by saying this is mostly how one feels that this is a preference to playing, then the same thing can be said about cheating, really. It all depends on contexts and a certain point of view, which people will do by pointing out the logic below is "shitty logic" because reason x happens to be that cheaters =/= leechers. But I fail to see otherwise.

A cheater will look for holes left out in the game's instruction. You're just doing something with the data that the game allows you to do, although it isn't the intended method of the game, you're still allowed to it because there was no limits that prevented you from doing so. Now is that fair? Probably not, but you can argue that because it wasn't patched out, or that there wasn't really anything to prevent it from happening means that the developer clearly allowed stuff like this to happen. Of course now you can say, but they're hacking/modifying the game to achieve this, but simply this is their preference on playing the game. Maybe you shouldn't ruin it for them by complaining about it.

That said, I fail to see how cheaters and leechers are different other than their methods of "play," if you will. I'm not making the claim that all leechers = cheaters, but I am making the claim that they're both unwanted and they both ruin the unofficial player etiquette, while providing absolutely nothing back to the communities they're in.

Like all things, if you don't like something like this then
you should complain to Sega to change that..

[Vatallus]

While there is no rules against it. You are still a liability to the team. Why else would Sega have wasted time adding guides to the in-game monitors on how to play certain maps or grind your gear if they didn't care.

At least now with the restricted blocks the people who want to only play with other geared players won't have to deal with this. Because I'm fairly sure someone running around with trash units and ungrinded weapons won't be able to pass Heaven and Hell ExQ 1-5. You'll have to actually build gear, and learn the game as intended.

There is also a difference between being a casual, and an incompetent. Sega keeps making gear progression easier, which still isn't enough for some people.

[Korima]

If people call lazy to people who don't upgrade their weapons, maybe they are lazy too because they didn't invest the time to find 11 well geared players in a F2P game to play a few quests for day, that is your solution if you don't want a "bad" MPA.

[Flaoc]

i do play in organized mpa but sometimes you end up having to pug and i dont like having to carry 11 brainless chickens with +0 gryphon units and 20 ele +0 13* or no affixes on any gear which btw is what you seem to support.. hmm maybe you yourself use the same gear i listed in which you need to review your own ingame priorities then

[Vatallus]

With the new Ultimate Quest on the horizon, they’re thinking about having blocks that only players who meet certain conditions can enter. While this is not finalized, the current idea is to allow players who’ve cleared Solo Extreme Training (Floors 1 ~ 5) to enter these blocks.

Again, something -is- being done about it. Because people who can't be bothered to take 5 minutes to fully grind their weapons, but took the time to reach lv 70 to get into XH, won't need to be tolerated. Sega made gearing up easier and easier, but let me use this quote instead.

"God only helps those that help themselves."

[Korima]

i do play in organized mpa but sometimes you end up having to pug and i dont like having to carry 11 brainless chickens with +0 gryphon units and 20 ele +0 13* or no affixes on any gear which btw is what you seem to support.. hmm maybe you yourself use the same gear i listed

Then just search another MPA and let those players to play without you.

[Flaoc]

Then just search another MPA and let those players to play without you.


え？ え？え？ え？え？

why would i do that? they should make sure their gear is up to standards before joining and by up to standards i mean 10* 11* or 12* 50 ele +20 with damage potential would even be somewhat better than the crap people bring to eq.. also having 60 atk on each unit with them also at +10 would be better than what said players bring in the 1st place. +0 20 ele 13* is also unacceptable and gets outdamaged by like everything. im not asking for much im asking for you to not be a damn leech. learn to grind and affix thanks. nt grinding is very easy to do so i fail to see the problem

[Korima]

え？ え？え？ え？え？

why would i do that? they should make sure their gear is up to standards before joining and by up to standards i mean 10* 11* or 12* 50 ele +20 with damage potential would even be somewhat better than the crap people bring to eq.. also having 60 atk on each unit with them also at +10 would be better than what said players bring in the 1st place. +0 20 ele 13* is also unacceptable and gets outdamaged by like everything. im not asking for much im asking for you to not be a damn leech. learn to grind and affix thanks. nt grinding is very easy to do so i fail to see the problem

If it is easy to get good gear, then give to them that gear.

[Flaoc]

they should learn to make it themselves as it actually is very easy to make

[Korima]

they should learn to make it themselves as it actually is very easy to make

Nope, they shouldn't, it is a rpg game, they can get their gear asking for it to other people.

[Sonichi]

If it is easy to get good gear, then give to them that gear.

>give people free stuff when they don't give a shit about the game or the people who play it
>giving people tools when they don't know how to play properly with said tools

lol k m8, you go buying everyone some Saiki sets and handing them out, see how far that gets you

nowhere because these people don't want to learn to play or put effort in

[Poyonche]

It isn't because they can get their gear by asking that they should do it.

[Flaoc]

Nope, they shouldn't, it is a rpg game, they can get their gear asking for it to other people.

quite frankly if your goal is to give me cancer you sure succeeded on that front. with that said nobody is gonna make gear for a useless leech who doesnt even care to learn to grind or affix gear to begin with like you for example

it is part of the game.. learn it please

[Dammy]

that Korima guy is either stupid or trolling , i guess the latter

[Bellion]

I would gladly give them free gear if they would actually use it. The problem is needing premium for 9* and below items for free trading, and you can't exactly give them 10*+ items without going through the player shop.
I would also offer to log onto someone's account and do the grinding and affixing for them, but that's not happening either.

This block that's being used as a filter will be a test for content beyond XH difficulty, so we'll see if it creates a smoother experience for players that want some standards, at the very least.

[Flaoc]

that Korima guy is either stupid or trolling , i guess the latter

why not both?

[Zephyrion]

...Please don't feed the trolls.

At that point I'd just refrain from posting anything else on that thread, and let the mods do their work. For the one who originally posted about this, just go the way you think you should go about things, as long as you're aiming for something you deem good. As it was said getting decent gear is actually very easy provided you know your way around the game a bit, so feel free to ask any question regarding that.
That's all

[Korima]

I said they can ask for gear, I didn't say you shoud give them gear.

In the end, let's finish this with the same thing, do whatever you want, if you don't like other people complain about your underpowered gear and they don't want you in your parties and that means no fun for you, leave the game, if you don't care what other people says about your underpowered gear and you enjoy the game like that, just go on.

[Ryna]

In particular this quote "Well, I guess players who join Perennial Apocalypse with 11* weapons at 24% element and +5 grind cannot really complete that EX mission, heh, so it at least gets rid of them." -Hrith

Umm, why is this a bad thing? If someone is using weaker gear its clear that they are simply trying to get stronger by completing the higher difficulty EQs. Isn't the entire purpose of completing these quests to get the fragments for the best weapons in the game?

If you're new to the game, there are some obstacles you have to overcome on the gear treadmill. There is a bit of a catch-22 where you have to play the higher-level content so you can get the fodder to get better gear. Prior to the release of collection sheets, I remember it was difficult acquiring 12* gear that I could trade in for 12* purchase tickets so I could purchase better 12* gear. Even with collection sheets, you still typically have to play content content to get gear for trade-ins and credit on sheets. The Nox weapons from the early collection sheets were a step in the right direction, but those sheets aren't available anymore.

You eventually reach a point where you are carrying your own weight. Until then, you upgrade your gear as best as you can and do what you can in MPAs.

EDIT: I'm going to go ahead and lock the thread.