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View Full Version : Returned to PSO2... and WTF?!?!



Lumir
Sep 17, 2016, 09:07 PM
First off... STILL NO PSO2 USA version? FAIL! Maby soon since SEA released.

Ok so i had to scratch my PSO2 itch and redownloaded everything, patched (awesome tweaker btw). Originally i started way back when the game first launched... it was epic... last content i played was that snow area...

BUT NOW WTF its like easy MODE.

WTF NT WEAPONS??!?! They have 2x or even more then their previous versions?!??!

Vol Dragon solo'd in 5mins or less?!??!?!

Rares dropping like crazy?!!?! I got 5 already in less then a DAY!

WTF!?!?! WHAT HAPPNED WITH EPISODE 4?!?! SUPER EZ MODE?

SEGA WHY!!?!?!!?

On the upside there is so much more content. Sesonal stuff!?!? Stones/badges!?!? CRAFTING?!?!? FOOD?!?!?! NEW CLASS?!?!! And ofc new areas.

Zysets
Sep 17, 2016, 09:21 PM
North American PSO2 is never happening, so don't waste your time with that.

NT weapons are new weapons that grind by mixing them with other weapons, instead of traditional grinding, and the game gets more difficult once you can do Extra Hard mode, gearing up so you don't become dead weight to a multiparty group is pretty important once you unlock Extra Hard. In my opinion, it's not that the game has really gotten easier overall, it's probably just much more of a breeze to get started, which I think is a welcome change for getting new players on board. There's also a much more difficult area being added soon, for end game players, so that's something to work towards in terms of leveling and gearing up.

Rares less at 10 stars aren't all that uncommon anymore, and the average rarity weapon for end game is now 12-13*, generally speaking. If you really haven't played in that many years, you have a tremendous amount of catching up to do, but there's plenty of sites with info to help you out, and the Quick Questions thread here is always open if you need it. Bumped.org updates regularly with new info, and the best game wiki is pso2.swiki.jp, it's in japanese, but it'll surely come in handy, and google translate usually gets the job done if you can't read japanese.

And finally, welcome back! There's plenty of new stuff that's been added over the years, I'm sure you'll find lots of things to do now.

milranduil
Sep 17, 2016, 09:36 PM
Vol Dragon solo'd in 5mins or less?!??!?!

more like 5 seconds, skip to 1:44
[spoiler-box]

http://youtu.be/KyeX582TeB4?t=1m44s
[/spoiler-box]

Selphea
Sep 17, 2016, 10:00 PM
Don't say it's easy till you solo Profound Darkness XH or wait for the upcoming Amduscia UQ.

Fusionxglave
Sep 17, 2016, 10:07 PM
Lol this guy will be eaten up alive, Once you see Xtreme quest heaven or hell.

Evangelion X.XX
Sep 17, 2016, 10:55 PM
Yeah... that reminds me, back in the day, people were actually struggling as Hunter against Vol Dragon; so much so... that some had to resort using gunslash to cheese Vol by shooting its crystal tail from a distance for stuns.

Lumir
Sep 17, 2016, 11:07 PM
Yeah... that reminds me, back in the day, people were actually struggling as Hunter against Vol Dragon; so much so... that some had to resort using gunslash to cheese Vol by shooting its crystal tail from a distance for stuns.

Thats what im talking bout, thats what made you think and enhanced the game a ton.

Just wait till XH?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ekiLCFP70

Im aware its a bug, one that will be a hard fix since any PA that does multi hits in less then 4 secs can be abused.

Not to mention... Satellite cannon. Even worse I can buy it at lvl 17 and 1 shot nearly everything. 3k damage at lvl 17 for 5k? HOORAY!!!! GAME OVER...

What have they done to my grind fest...

Saagonsa
Sep 17, 2016, 11:12 PM
Just wait till XH?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ekiLCFP70

Im aware its a bug, one that will be a hard fix since any PA that does multi hits in less then 4 secs can be abused.

That strat hasn't been possible for over a year at this point. They changed it so that chain does not boost the damage of banish arrow, which is what is done there.

Zysets
Sep 17, 2016, 11:17 PM
What have they done to my grind fest...

Say that to my Las Vegas weapon Collection Files.

Altiea
Sep 17, 2016, 11:19 PM
Thats what im talking bout, thats what made you think and enhanced the game a ton.

Just wait till XH?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ekiLCFP70

Im aware its a bug, one that will be a hard fix since any PA that does multi hits in less then 4 secs can be abused.

Not to mention... Satellite cannon. Even worse I can buy it at lvl 17 and 1 shot nearly everything. 3k damage at lvl 17 for 5k? HOORAY!!!! GAME OVER...

What have they done to my grind fest...

You know that the Chain Banish bug has been patched out a long time ago, right? Although the strat still exists, it's highly impractical outside of a controlled environment. Also, you can't buy Level 17 anything. Good luck buying a Lv. 10 Sat Cannon, much less using it on anything that moves a lot.

If you stopped after the fourth area, I can't imagine why you wouldn't think the game would add new stuff. Or reduce the grind, because I don't know anyone who prefers to spend all of their ingame hours level grinding.

Lumir
Sep 17, 2016, 11:23 PM
That strat hasn't been possible for over a year at this point. They changed it so that chain does not boost the damage of banish arrow, which is what is done there.

You can pull it off other ways...

XH? No prob!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vxz1T18pMg

This game was fun when you actually had 15min boss battles at minimum, with 1 or 2 deaths.

Seriously no one can say anything bout getting satellite cannon at lvl 17. I mean at least have level restrictions for that sh!t. I dunno know if i should even continue playing after seeing these and other videos... Damn it 10hrs of DL for 40gigs for this insta win game?

MAN TEARS T_T MOMMY!!!!

40222

Altiea
Sep 17, 2016, 11:26 PM
You can pull it off other ways...

XH? No prob!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vxz1T18pMg

This game was fun when you actually had 15min boss battles at minimum, with 1 or 2 deaths.

Seriously no one can say anything bout getting satellite cannon at lvl 17. I mean at least have level restrictions for that sh!t. I dunno know if i should even continue playing after seeing these and other videos... Damn it 10hrs of DL for 40gigs for this insta win game?

MAN TEARS T_T MOMMY!!!!

You seem to underestimate the amount of effort you need to invest to actually accomplish these feats.

Tunga
Sep 17, 2016, 11:29 PM
This feels like cheap bait to me.

Altiea
Sep 17, 2016, 11:32 PM
This feels like cheap bait to me.

I came to realize this a bit late. Too bad I bit.

Lumir
Sep 17, 2016, 11:34 PM
You seem to underestimate the amount of effort you need to invest to actually accomplish these feats.

Effort? Anyone with decent skills can pull this shit off. And if my current 3/5min bosses say anything about what ill be dealing with in hard n XH after i obtain some gear and satellite cannon.... sigh never mind.

Just leave me to my man tears. SEGA WHY!!!!!

Maby SEA version is still the game i remember, I dont think they have ep 4 yet. OH PLEASE! PLEASE~!

Seriously this is not bait but ligit questions and sadness.

Altiea
Sep 17, 2016, 11:37 PM
Effort? Anyone with decent skills can pull this shit off. And if my current 3/5min bosses say anything about what ill be dealing with in hard n XH after i obtain some gear and satellite cannon.... sigh never mind.

Just leave me to my man tears. SEGA WHY!!!!!

Maby SEA version is still the game i remember, I dont think they have ep 4 yet. OH PLEASE! PLEASE~!

Seriously this is not bait but ligit questions and sadness.

I mean, if you're not happy, you can leave. It's not like anyone will notice.

Selphea
Sep 17, 2016, 11:39 PM
Try solo queueing XH Magatsu in the lowest block and see if that happens.

If I do that I make sure I'm at least in a party of 2 :wacko:

Meteor Weapon
Sep 17, 2016, 11:41 PM
Thats what im talking bout, thats what made you think and enhanced the game a ton.

Just wait till XH?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ekiLCFP70

Im aware its a bug, one that will be a hard fix since any PA that does multi hits in less then 4 secs can be abused.

Not to mention... Satellite cannon. Even worse I can buy it at lvl 17 and 1 shot nearly everything. 3k damage at lvl 17 for 5k? HOORAY!!!! GAME OVER...

What have they done to my grind fest...

Dude what? You can't buy a lv17 Satellite Cannon or any PA from a shop. you have to farm it in AQ.

Tunga
Sep 17, 2016, 11:45 PM
This game was fun when you actually had 15min boss battles at minimum, with 1 or 2 deaths.


You can do this with PD and magatsu if want to go 1 v 1 with them. I mean 15 mins fight with vol dragon lol, jesus goood what the hell am i even reading here.

Flaoc
Sep 17, 2016, 11:47 PM
if it broke out

Tunga
Sep 17, 2016, 11:49 PM
if it broke out
Yeah buddy


Not to mention... Satellite cannon. Even worse I can buy it at lvl 17 and 1 shot nearly everything. 3k damage at lvl 17 for 5k? HOORAY!!!! GAME OVER...

http://www.i-mockery.com/halloween/greatest/pics/basketcase3-06.gif

Zysets
Sep 17, 2016, 11:51 PM
I want to assume this isn't bait, because I like seeing people get into the game, or come back to it, a larger community means more people to potentially play with
If you want to jump to SEA, go ahead, but it's much more unbalanced, and hundreds of times more cash hungry. Also they have an IP block in place if you're not from the SEA region.

Selphea
Sep 17, 2016, 11:51 PM
I think they mean "I am level 17 and I bought Sat Can from Player Shop/Photon Drop shop"

Well you bought the wrong PA for levelling, go buy End Attract and request a Divine Launcher Type-0 craft.

But for a harder game out the gate, try Soul Worker >_>

IchijinKali
Sep 17, 2016, 11:51 PM
Dude really needs to take a chill pill >_>

Lumir
Sep 17, 2016, 11:53 PM
Dude what? You can't buy a lv17 Satellite Cannon or any PA from a shop. you have to farm it in AQ.

I went to the visiphone player shops and saw a few up for sell, around 5k for level 1.


You know that the Chain Banish bug has been patched out a long time ago, right? Although the strat still exists, it's highly impractical outside of a controlled environment. Also, you can't buy Level 17 anything. Good luck buying a Lv. 10 Sat Cannon, much less using it on anything that moves a lot.

If you stopped after the fourth area, I can't imagine why you wouldn't think the game would add new stuff. Or reduce the grind, because I don't know anyone who prefers to spend all of their ingame hours level grinding.

I dont know what your talking about but my post said i am lvl 17 and can buy satellite cannon. Its not hard to time your PAs with predictable boss movements as the videos i posted before and many more on youtube show.

And as for the grind, the game was built as a grind. The entire game is just that, a grind for new stuff, stones/badges, fun scratchers, ect. The level grind was just part of THE GRIND.

What you said is like saying "I dont know anyone who prefers to spend all their in game time grinding for levels, now lemme get back to grinding my rare items, stones/badges, ect..."

Zysets
Sep 17, 2016, 11:59 PM
What you said is like saying "I dont know anyone who prefers to spend all their in game time grinding for levels, now lemme get back to grinding my rare items, stones/badges, ect..."

That's literally the main thing of PSO. Even on the original on Dreamcast, it was all about grinding for gear, not levels. I didn't know people actually cared for levels for anything other than getting access to new gear in any of the games since the original PSO.

And PSO2 never made level part of the grind from anything I remember, it always felt like something that existed for the sake of spacing the content and difficulty levels out more than to grinding levels themselves.

Altiea
Sep 18, 2016, 12:09 AM
I went to the visiphone player shops and saw a few up for sell, around 5k for level 1.



I dont know what your talking about but my post said i am lvl 17 and can buy satellite cannon. Its not hard to time your PAs with predictable boss movements as the videos i posted before and many more on youtube show.

And as for the grind, the game was built as a grind. The entire game is just that, a grind for new stuff, stones/badges, fun scratchers, ect. The level grind was just part of THE GRIND.

What you said is like saying "I dont know anyone who prefers to spend all their in game time grinding for levels, now lemme get back to grinding my rare items, stones/badges, ect..."

Of course you can buy Sat Cannon, regardless of level. That doesn't mean it will demolish everything. That's what End Attract is for.

So, you're complaining because the game got more convenient? I'm not even sure why I'm still here, I like my topics salt-free.

Lumir
Sep 18, 2016, 12:18 AM
That's literally the main thing of PSO. Even on the original on Dreamcast, it was all about grinding for gear, not levels. I didn't know people actually cared for levels for anything other than getting access to new gear in any of the games since the original PSO.

And PSO2 never made Level part of the grind, it always felt like something that existed for the sake of spacing the content and difficulty levels out more than to grinding levels themselve.

Thats part of the mentality.

"I need to level up so I can get those skill points, for those extra stats, or to reach that new area."

Hell even sega knows this, thats why every update they add a few levels with huge exp thresh holds for those next 5/10 levels. It extends new content and longevity of the game. Thats why at launch they knew the amount of content they had and made the game difficult enough to last quite awhile. Now with all the content avail I guess it makes it easier to lure new players in with just the flashy animations and shiny 7-10 star equips.

Dont get me wrong im not upset at the fact you can own vol dragon or any of the first 5 major bosses, you could do that before with proper tactics and PAs.

BUT NOW, oh you just started? HERE have 10 EXP 100%, 5 50% rare drop items. OH wait take these too NEW PT items for insta win AND ARMOR giving +50 EVERYTHING! Oh WAIT get more EXP/DROP+ items for free when you hit lvl 10 ect with another +50 everything armor. Rare drops everywhere! get your 300+ dmg weapon at lvl 10!

I didnt have to do anything but drop a WB and 3 or 4 PAs on rockbear and Vol dragon maby 5 or 6... Its not because WB but those FREEBIES.

Selphea
Sep 18, 2016, 12:23 AM
Thats part of the mentality.

"I need to level up so I can get those skill points, for those extra stats, or to reach that new area."

Hell even sega knows this, thats why every update they add a few levels with huge exp thresh holds for those next 5/10 levels. It extends new content and longevity of the game. Thats why at launch they knew the amount of content they had and made the game difficult enough to last quite awhile. Now with all the content avail I guess it makes it easier to lure new players in with just the flashy animations and shiny 7-10 star equips.

Dont get me wrong im not upset at the fact you can own vol dragon or any of the first 5 major bosses, you could do that before with proper tactics and PAs.

BUT NOW, oh you just started? HERE have 10 EXP 100%, 5 50% rare drop items. OH wait take these too NEW PT items for insta win AND ARMOR giving +50 EVERYTHING! Oh WAIT get more EXP/DROP+ items for free when you hit lvl 10 ect with another +50 everything armor. Rare drops everywhere! get your 300+ dmg weapon at lvl 10!

I didnt have to do anything but drop a WB and 3 or 4 PAs on rockbear and Vol dragon maby 5 or 6... Its not because WB but those FREEBIES.

Actually we've been stuck at level 75 for about 2 years now. The only new stuff we get are skill rings and more 13★s. 10★s are just Excube/NT grind fodder at this point.

Also the 50% rare drop items are just throwaways, by endgame you need to use 250%s because there's collection sheets where 50% rare drop means instead of killing 100 Vegas Illusias, you need to kill 70.

Lumir
Sep 18, 2016, 12:36 AM
Actually we've been stuck at level 75 for about 2 years now. The only new stuff we get are skill rings and more 13★s. 10★s are just Excube/NT grind fodder at this point.

Also the 50% rare drop items are just throwaways, by endgame you need to use 250%s because there's collection sheets where 50% rare drop means instead of killing 100 Vegas Illusias, you need to kill 70.

Heck they might have been 100% ones i dont even know ill have to check since i just put em in storage.

Good thing you mentioned those skill rings. I had a few questions regarding them:

They give you skills of other classes right? Any restrictions besides the casino coins needed to buy them? Can you buy them with meseta from player shops? Leveling them up does what?

Tunga
Sep 18, 2016, 12:36 AM
Its not because WB but those FREEBIES.

The best thing about this is that all that noob junk sega gives us will help greatly on SH eqs. Also maybe you don't know this, but you can use some 13*s before you even reach hard...

Zyrusticae
Sep 18, 2016, 12:39 AM
Fast-tracking through early content is standard fare for MMO-type games nowadays. Compare, for example, WoW now to what it was back at launch. Same thing with Blade & Soul, Aion, FFXIV, or any other game you can think of that's relatively modern. Power creep is also a standard feature of modern gaming. Just something you have to learn to accept if you want to play these types of games.

It's slightly more visible in PSO2 because they actively phase out lower difficulty levels (to the point where you blow through normal and hard difficulty in a matter of hours as a new player), but when it comes right down to it, it's no different from other games making you skip lower levels with free XP and loot through questing and the like. They want all the players to catch up quickly so they can join the more populated difficulty levels and zones. A fractured player base is an unhealthy player base. Same reason they've kept up with the emergency quest system, despite lots of quibbling from players who want to be able to play them whenever they want (to which they added triggers to quell those complaints while making money at the same time).

I'd say the real issue is the lack of optional high difficulty options that don't involve you self-gimping yourself or hard restrictions (see challenge mode). Solo XQ is about the best we've got in that regard. That being said, I dont miss taking fifteen minutes to down a single boss solo. Again, you can just gimp yourself if you want to experience that. I don't find it entertaining at all. I'm fine with being able to blow them up in seconds outside of XH EQs. Many players feel the same way, hence why the difficulty curve is stuck in this direction. This is just the way things are now.

In short, deal with it. This is the new normal. Even PSO3, whenever it comes, is likely to give us more of the same, just slightly more refined.

Zysets
Sep 18, 2016, 12:40 AM
It's important to realize that the difficulty will always be in whatever is the new content that the community focuses on, they throw all the help at you when you start so you can actually play the relevant content that everyone else is playing sooner, instead of being stuck playing the areas no one else does anymore.

It's obvious that you haven't even touched any of the grind filled content everyone does these days, like Collection Files, getting the items to trade in for your first Austere weapon, getting your best possible weapon/unit affixes, etc.

There's honestly much more to the game than just what you get before you even hit Lv 60.


Good thing you mentioned those skill rings. I had a few questions regarding them:

They give you skills of other classes right? Any restrictions besides the casino coins needed to buy them? Can you buy them with meseta from player shops? Leveling them up does what?

You don't get skill rings from the casino, that's way off. You have to mine for materials in free fields to make them, which is all RNG. Restrictions are listed for each ring in their description, usually you just can't wear one if you're already the relevant class, and you can only have one left hand ring and one right hand ring.

No, you can't buy them from others. You can't even buy the materials to make them from others.

Grinding them, which costs meseta and more materials, either adds points to your overall stats, or increases the effectiveness of the skill, like adding more skill points to a class skill.

Meteor Weapon
Sep 18, 2016, 12:48 AM
If you think SH Forest and Caves are end game stuff that you can pulverise through with just WB, a single powerful lv1 PA which takes a long time to prepare and charge along with crappy ungrinded weapons...Vol Dragon could easily whoop your ass in a single hit.

Dammy
Sep 18, 2016, 12:56 AM
First off... STILL NO PSO2 USA version?

stopped reading there

IchijinKali
Sep 18, 2016, 01:02 AM
stopped reading there

I stopped reading after seeing the excessive use of WTF and CAPITAL LETTERS. As if the guy has never played an MMO that changes over the years in his life.

Lumir
Sep 18, 2016, 01:11 AM
Fast-tracking through early content is standard fare for MMO-type games nowadays. Compare, for example, WoW now to what it was back at launch. Same thing with Blade & Soul, Aion, FFXIV, or any other game you can think of that's relatively modern. Power creep is also a standard feature of modern gaming. Just something you have to learn to accept if you want to play these types of games.

It's slightly more visible in PSO2 because they actively phase out lower difficulty levels (to the point where you blow through normal and hard difficulty in a matter of hours as a new player), but when it comes right down to it, it's no different from other games making you skip lower levels with free XP and loot through questing and the like. They want all the players to catch up quickly so they can join the more populated difficulty levels and zones. A fractured player base is an unhealthy player base. Same reason they've kept up with the emergency quest system, despite lots of quibbling from players who want to be able to play them whenever they want (to which they added triggers to quell those complaints while making money at the same time).

I'd say the real issue is the lack of optional high difficulty options that don't involve you self-gimping yourself or hard restrictions (see challenge mode). Solo XQ is about the best we've got in that regard. That being said, I dont miss taking fifteen minutes to down a single boss solo. Again, you can just gimp yourself if you want to experience that. I don't find it entertaining at all. I'm fine with being able to blow them up in seconds outside of XH EQs. Many players feel the same way, hence why the difficulty curve is stuck in this direction. This is just the way things are now.

In short, deal with it. This is the new normal. Even PSO3, whenever it comes, is likely to give us more of the same, just slightly more refined.

Cept in WoW you can insta skip to lvl 100 or whatever, and still have acess to lower level content at near original difficulty if you avoid using the new dungeon find features ect. Its nice to experience the game in its original difficulty. The only reason you see the n trend is because of the F2P with cash option games, any pay to play game does not do this, Its a money thing for sure, but we already know that.


It's important to realize that the difficulty will always be in whatever is the new content that the community focuses on, they throw all the help at you when you start so you can actually play the relevant content that everyone else is playing sooner, instead of being stuck playing the areas no one else does anymore.

It's obvious that you haven't even touched any of the grind filled content everyone does these days, like Collection Files, getting the items to trade in for your first Austere weapon, getting your best possible weapon/unit affixes, etc.

There's honestly much more to the game than just what you get before you even hit Lv 60.



You don't get skill rings from the casino, that's way off. You have to mine for materials in free fields to make them, which is all RNG. Restrictions are listed for each ring in their description, usually you just can't wear one if you're already the relevant class, and you can only have one left hand ring and one right hand ring.

No, you can't buy them from others. You can't even buy the materials to make them from others.

Grinding them, which costs meseta and more materials, either adds points to your overall stats, or increases the effectiveness of the skill, like adding more skill points to a class skill.

Having played the game from launch to level 50 or 55 i forget, I can safely say i understand the grind aspect and know what to expect at the new caps of 75. That being said I dont like the "rush" to the newest content feeling, the game is popular enough and fun enough to hold players and make them want to grind without the "i need to rush to end game to play with others feeling". PSO2 being a cash cow I can understand, though with WoW and any other pay to play MMO that was and still is successful we can see the rush to end game content is just a marketing ploy, not something players really desire. Just look at League of Legends and Dota, their endgame is ranked matches and skill tree points, they dont rush you with freebies. As for Aion it died in its first year, fun but failed. If you still dont belive me look at lineage 2 or even Ragnarok online which just recently went all freebie rush to end game because its dying after being out 20+ years.

Altiea
Sep 18, 2016, 01:31 AM
It's important to realize that the difficulty will always be in whatever is the new content that the community focuses on, they throw all the help at you when you start so you can actually play the relevant content that everyone else is playing sooner, instead of being stuck playing the areas no one else does anymore.

It's obvious that you haven't even touched any of the grind filled content everyone does these days, like Collection Files, getting the items to trade in for your first Austere weapon, getting your best possible weapon/unit affixes, etc.

There's honestly much more to the game than just what you get before you even hit Lv 60.



You don't get skill rings from the casino, that's way off. You have to mine for materials in free fields to make them, which is all RNG. Restrictions are listed for each ring in their description, usually you just can't wear one if you're already the relevant class, and you can only have one left hand ring and one right hand ring.

No, you can't buy them from others. You can't even buy the materials to make them from others.

Grinding them, which costs meseta and more materials, either adds points to your overall stats, or increases the effectiveness of the skill, like adding more skill points to a class skill.

Just wanna say, they're adding the ability to sell Skill Rings in Player Shops in October.

Zysets
Sep 18, 2016, 01:38 AM
Just wanna say, they're adding the ability to sell Skill Rings in Player Shops in October.

Really? That's a bit disappointing in some ways, but I'm not bothered by that. Well I hope I can make a good profit selling off the extra ones I've grinded out for no real reason other than to do them.

isCasted
Sep 18, 2016, 02:14 AM
The game got better. It shifted from unbalanced, slow, uncanny mess towards decent action experience akin to DMC, because that's the best suit for its unique combat system. Thanks to various convenience updates (like faster recovery times, iframes, 3-button control scheme) its player skill cap has greatly increased.

Even if game got easier as a result, there's plenty of things to do to get good, because players have much better control over their characters. If you are baffled that Vol Dragon taking 5 minutes is too fast, you are going to have your ass handed to you by future encounters, like Ultimate mobs, solo XQ, DF Loser and PD (especially on XH).

FantasyHeaven
Sep 18, 2016, 02:51 AM
I mean, if you're not happy, you can leave. It's not like anyone will notice.

man why you so defensive though. a little bad at taking criticism?
the guy is absolutely right, all the normal bosses from rockbear to vegas statue are complete shit. If I can solo them in a couple pas then what are they to an mpa? they don't even survive a fraction of a second. Remember when fang banther was threatening? me neither because he just died before he could finish his spawn animation without even a wb being used. What is even the point of having these boosted fangulfurs running around when from their BIG SHINING CRYSTAL they drop 20 meseta and 3 star units each and every time. oh yeah, collect file band aid
don't even get me started on the normal mobs, they just there to be zondeeled + massacred, really tiring content
the only really good content this game has is the TDs

Ezodagrom
Sep 18, 2016, 03:52 AM
In my opinion, it would be for the better if modes from normal to super hard were rebalanced somehow, at the moment I think they're far too easy, and the gap from super hard to extra hard/ultimate is a bit too high (at the very least enemies could use a bump in HP in all modes below extra hard, so we end up with a more consistent growth between modes).

I understand that it's for the sake of players catching up, but, with things as they are we end up with players that just aren't prepared at all for extra hard/ultimate, so, I feel that modes from normal to super hard could at least use a bump in enemies HP, but not too much so these modes don't end up being a chore.

Lumir
Sep 18, 2016, 12:11 PM
man why you so defensive though. a little bad at taking criticism?
the guy is absolutely right, all the normal bosses from rockbear to vegas statue are complete shit. If I can solo them in a couple pas then what are they to an mpa? they don't even survive a fraction of a second. Remember when fang banther was threatening? me neither because he just died before he could finish his spawn animation without even a wb being used. What is even the point of having these boosted fangulfurs running around when from their BIG SHINING CRYSTAL they drop 20 meseta and 3 star units each and every time. oh yeah, collect file band aid
don't even get me started on the normal mobs, they just there to be zondeeled + massacred, really tiring content
the only really good content this game has is the TDs

THIS! As a returning player the game feels like a childs playground. No real difficulty at all, its not bad if the content is easy BUT THIS IS FREE WIN until XH? What kinda players do you want? Children who just want to rush to end game, or players with skills gained from playing the game with a moderate difficulty?


In my opinion, it would be for the better if modes from normal to super hard were rebalanced somehow, at the moment I think they're far too easy, and the gap from super hard to extra hard/ultimate is a bit too high (at the very least enemies could use a bump in HP in all modes below extra hard, so we end up with a more consistent growth between modes).

I understand that it's for the sake of players catching up, but, with things as they are we end up with players that just aren't prepared at all for extra hard/ultimate, so, I feel that modes from normal to super hard could at least use a bump in enemies HP, but not too much so these modes don't end up being a chore.

Yes. This is what would be nice and what i was expecting. They way it is as a returning player and im sure even for new players it feels like WTF? Is this really a MMORPG OR A FRIGGIN CANDY CRUSH SAGA GAME?

Flaoc
Sep 18, 2016, 12:36 PM
lol? and i bet u want those alt chars to take ages to reach xh too huh? honestly pre xh is a waste of time so it might as well be rushed super fast.. especially when making new chars.. why take forever to reach xh on them huh

Evangelion X.XX
Sep 18, 2016, 01:14 PM
Although I don't particularly mind blasting through Normal -> Extra Hard with a new character (and I don't mind experienced players doing so as well), I fear that new comers may reach Extra Hard without having the necessary experience and equipment to handle mobs and bosses, particularly in important EQs/UQs. Thus, you have that guy that the MPA has to revive every 20 seconds... something that the community always gripe about.

Zysets
Sep 18, 2016, 01:43 PM
I don't think keeping older areas difficult will really help with that. Because even once a newcomer reaches XH and start dying all the time, they still don't feel compelled to upgrade their gear and build their classes in a way that benefits them. Most of the problem lies in that players get too used to being carried, because, honestly, it's easy to get carried in this game, that's not a good thing.


Is this really a MMORPG OR A FRIGGIN CANDY CRUSH SAGA GAME?
I do agree with you on some of those points, but your use of unnecessary caps and "real gamer" comparisons, starting out the thread with "FAIL" and "!?!?!?!?" for half the post makes it hard to not want to bash my skull into the wall. I mean it's completely irrelevant to the discussion here, so admit I'm being a hypocrite in criticizing that, but I needed to get that off my chest.

DRAGONxNOGARD
Sep 18, 2016, 02:32 PM
HERE IS 5 WTF

B1 TROLL COMMUNITY
WHEN I RUN EQ IN RIGHT BLOCK AND MPA IS 1/12
FIND HARD PARTY FOR TACO XQCO AQ LQ
QUESTION MUST SPAM 5X FOR GAIN ANSWER IN FORUM
NEED PREMIUM FOR 10 11 12 * PASSES

Zysets
Sep 18, 2016, 02:41 PM
HERE IS 5 WTF

B1 TROLL COMMUNITY
WHEN I RUN EQ IN RIGHT BLOCK AND MPA IS 1/12
FIND HARD PARTY FOR TACO XQCO AQ LQ
QUESTION MUST SPAM 5X FOR GAIN ANSWER IN FORUM
NEED PREMIUM FOR 10 11 12 * PASSES

-Just stay out of B1, nobody likes the B1 community, other ships are also available if you want to transfer.
-I rarely end up in 1/12 EQs unless I'm late to join, make sure you join right as it starts, and make sure you're in a populated block for the difficulty you want. If you are a bit late, then be patient, patience is a great thing to practice, this also ties into my reply to the forum complaint.
-It's up to you to organize parties for content that isn't done regularly, for TACOs, talk to people, on the forums or in game, see if you can schedule something. Most people run TACOs and AQs solo these days, but I'm sure you can find someone. You just have to talk to people and figure something out, it's pretty fun to organize and play with others!
-For the forum question, you're just incredibly impatient, the people who answer questions in the Quick Questions thread are doing it because they can help, on their own free time, they're not a service that's supposed to do as you want. It would also be nice if your posts were easier to understand, sometimes I have trouble figuring out what you're asking, but I'm assuming english is not your first language, so it's not that big of a deal.
-You can get 10-12* passes from titles, without premium. You can also just save up rare items, buy some premium maybe once a year, and turn them all into passes to last you until next time you need to refill. Sega is going to try to get you to pay for things sometimes, I've never found it to be forceful like many other F2P games, so I have no problem with it.

DRAGONxNOGARD
Sep 18, 2016, 02:49 PM
You can get 10-12* passes from titles, without premium.

what titles i want one vopar 10* weapon called Rough Mary [ラフメリ]

40226

know is shit weapon and i should ussing austere but look nice

Evangelion X.XX
Sep 18, 2016, 03:00 PM
Right off the bat, I just want to say yes, it's very easy to get carried in this game; especially when pugging, you'll always have maybe 3-4 players carrying the whole MPA (from overparse when I was still using it).

However, I feel that those who "don't feel compelled to upgrade gear", who are constantly dying, or who are 'true' leechers and expect to be carried like 100% of the time are in the minority. I would think that the majority of players want to at least contribute average DPS (despite being a "filthy" casual"), I mean most players don't sincerely enjoy dying and losing, right?

That being said, for most players (I'm refering to the Average Joe), I think keeping older areas difficult would help to a certain extent because they'll learn what class combinations work and what don't work; if they're taking too damn long to kill a boss or keep dying, then go figure, they need to change something, like may be grind their shit?

Ezodagrom also brought up a good point. I think the gap in difficulty from SH -> XH is a bit much for the average new comers and I think it surprises them, it's noticeable when comparing SH TD3 and XH TD3.

To reiterate, leechers will be leechers (and top-dogs will be top-dogs), but for the average joe, I think it'll help them, and thereby help everyone.

And also, I'm all for implementing 'elite' blocks.

Zysets
Sep 18, 2016, 03:05 PM
Right off the bat, I just want to say yes, it's very easy to get carried in this game; especially when pugging, you'll always have maybe 3-4 players carrying the whole MPA (from overparse when I was still using it).

However, I feel that those who "don't feel compelled to upgrade gear", who are constantly dying, or who are 'true' leechers and expect to be carried like 100% of the time are in the minority. I would think that the majority of players want to at least contribute average DPS (despite being a "filthy" casual"), I mean most players don't sincerely enjoy dying and losing, right?

That being said, for most players (I'm appealing to the Average Joe), I think keeping older areas difficult help to a certain extent because they'll learn what class combinations work and what don't work; if they're taking too damn long to kill a boss or keep dying, then go figure, they need to change something, like may be grind their shit?

Ezodagrom also brought up a good point. I think the gap in difficulty from SH -> XH is a bit much for the average new comers and I think it surprises them, it's noticeable when comparing SH TD3 and XH TD3.

To reiterate, leechers will be leechers (and top-dogs will be top-dogs), but for the average joe, I think it'll help them, and thereby help everyone.

And also, I'm all for implementing 'elite' blocks.

When you put it like that, I can see what you're getting at, I agree that helping the community improve as a whole would help everyone in the long run. That was a great way to explain it, and I whole heartedly agree.


what titles i want one vopar 10* weapon called Rough Mary [ラフメリ]
I may have been wrong on getting 10* passes, I believe it's just 12* passes that are available from titles, by completing any XH quests 1, 10, and 30 times.
I really don't recommend using a 10* just for looks, but you can just try to farm for it the old fashioned way, that's always fun.

I'd honestly just recommend find a neat weapon camo and using better gear, but it's up to you I guess.

Tunga
Sep 18, 2016, 03:14 PM
and i should ussing austere

And what made you think this?

Great Pan
Sep 18, 2016, 08:04 PM
Go back to your puny Dark Souls!

Lumir
Sep 18, 2016, 08:31 PM
I don't think keeping older areas difficult will really help with that. Because even once a newcomer reaches XH and start dying all the time, they still don't feel compelled to upgrade their gear and build their classes in a way that benefits them. Most of the problem lies in that players get too used to being carried, because, honestly, it's easy to get carried in this game, that's not a good thing.


I do agree with you on some of those points, but your use of unnecessary caps and "real gamer" comparisons, starting out the thread with "FAIL" and "!?!?!?!?" for half the post makes it hard to not want to bash my skull into the wall. I mean it's completely irrelevant to the discussion here, so admit I'm being a hypocrite in criticizing that, but I needed to get that off my chest.

Its not about keeping older areas difficult, its about a progressive difficulty with bosses being thresh holds from rockbear all the way to the current last boss. The way it is now its free wins until XH. No need to learn about upgrades or elements. Vol dragon should have been harder, should have needed to farm gear from him or mobs in his area, hell i dont need any of that it was all given to me at LVLs 1-10.

Starting fresh and im sure for new players this is like entering a dead zone. For English players If its like this until XH most people will quit since its dead/super EZ and those that dont will unknowingly join groups and have to be carried in SH/XH for free boss kills and item drops by those who are geared up. They would continue to join either english or japanese groups to get free gear until they were able to hold their own and learn the upgrade system ect. I could see myself playing thinking im decent and getting to SH joining a party and feeling outclassed by the geared people. Japanese players can see past all of this with tons of others to play and communicate with, events IN JAPAN, internet cafe events, and being part of the basic major group of players.

Its weird really I feel gimped because I cannot learn how to dodge effectively or time my healing after dodging an attack. Why? I take 27-50 damage and have 500+ health and good defense from freebie items, also its insta win with WB and a PA, i can only imagine if i used satellite cannon. I remember at launch you needed to learn these basics and it was fun to!

They should just let people skip to level 60 or super hard if they have this kind of system.

The only saving grace for newbies is that quest card thing. I could have skipped/forgot about koffe and important class npcs without it.

AS FOR THE CAPS! I only used those to try and cheer myself up from discovering this disappointing situation. Also to cause a bit of an uproar. It worked, and I apologize if it caused you pain. To me it was something to laugh at not cause headaches.

Sizustar
Sep 18, 2016, 08:39 PM
Its not about keeping older areas difficult, its about a progressive difficulty with bosses being thresh holds from rockbear all the way to the current last boss. The way it is now its free wins until XH. Vol dragon should have been harder, should have needed to farm gear from him or mobs in his area, hell i dont need any of that it was all given to me at LVLs 1-10.

Starting fresh and im sure for new players this is like entering a dead zone. For English players If its like this until XH most people will quit since its dead/super EZ and those that dont will want to be carried in XH for free boss kills and item drops by those who farmed for XH. Japanese players can see past all of this with tons of others to play and communicate with, events IN JAPAN, internet cafe events, and the language of the game.

Its weird really I feel gimped because I cannot learn how to dodge effectively or time my healing after dodging an attack. Why? I take 27-50 damage and have 500+ health and good defense from freebie items, also its insta win with WB and a PA, i can only imagine if i used satellite cannon.

They should just let people skip to level 60 or super hard.

AS FOR THE CAPS! I only used those to try and cheer myself up from discovering this disappointing situation. Also to cause a bit of an uproar. It worked, and I apologize if it caused you pain. To me it was something to laugh at not cause headaches.

Well, your opinion would be in the minority.
The game is doing better then ever with the current content, and method.
And not alot of other MMORPG does what you want, since it doesn't make it "fun"
so why should the PSO2 team, do something that the majority of player and current new player aren't interested, why should they cater to a known minority?

Altiea
Sep 18, 2016, 08:41 PM
I feel like this is one of those "it's accessible to everyone, so it sucks" types of deals.

Lumir
Sep 18, 2016, 08:51 PM
Well, your opinion would be in the minority.
The game is doing better then ever with the current content, and method.
And not alot of other MMORPG does what you want, since it doesn't make it "fun"
so why should the PSO2 team, do something that the majority of player and current new player aren't interested, why should they cater to a known minority?

Updated my post. For the biggest group (japanese) hell yea do this or even include a skip to lvl 60, but in my case as an english player its sucks, so i can complain here since this is whats left of the english players.

Sizustar
Sep 18, 2016, 08:56 PM
Updated my post. For the biggest group (japanese) hell yea do this or even include a skip to lvl 60, but in my case as an english player its sucks, so i can complain here since this is whats left of the english players.

The english community also consist of 4chan and reddit and other forums, beside PSO-World, and I doubt you speak for all of them.

Zysets
Sep 18, 2016, 09:33 PM
Starting fresh and im sure for new players this is like entering a dead zone. For English players If its like this until XH most people will quit since its dead/super EZ and those that dont will unknowingly join groups and have to be carried in SH/XH for free boss kills and item drops by those who are geared up. They would continue to join either english or japanese groups to get free gear until they were able to hold their own and learn the upgrade system ect. I could see myself playing thinking im decent and getting to SH joining a party and feeling outclassed by the geared people. Japanese players can see past all of this with tons of others to play and communicate with, events IN JAPAN, internet cafe events, and being part of the basic major group of players.

...

The only saving grace for newbies is that quest card thing. I could have skipped/forgot about koffe and important class npcs without it.

AS FOR THE CAPS! I only used those to try and cheer myself up from discovering this disappointing situation. Also to cause a bit of an uproar. It worked, and I apologize if it caused you pain. To me it was something to laugh at not cause headaches.

(Cut a bit out so the quote wasn't so large)

The english community has it's presence as well, we have tons of guides and multiple sites with information, we have a community that's always helping each other out, a blog that posts all the new information as it comes out, sow e don't miss anything from that. We don't have physical events unfortunately, but we have a community that spans this forum, reddit, and many other sites. To say that the english community doesn't have a real community is silly.

However I do agree with finding ways to help the community grow and learn from the start, to avoid complications in the later parts of the game. I have to disagree on Koffie and class NPCs though, without doing Koffies COs, there is absolutely no way you can access new areas, to unlock new free fields, you HAVE to do her client orders. Same with subclasses, Mags, etc. Class NPCs are also a given, I don't think I've ever heard of someone skipping them like that.

And about the caps and such, I hope there's no hard feelings, I do agree on some of your reasoning, just it felt like it cheapened the discussion a bit to add all of that, this is a good discussion to have, considering the disconnect between new players and veterans at times.

sol_trigger
Sep 18, 2016, 10:52 PM
@OP : quit this game if you don't like how it is now, simple . it's no use bitching on the forum dude, find something else to play

TheszNuts
Sep 18, 2016, 10:54 PM
Ain't no one got the time to take a month to get to 55 like how it was when 55 was the level cap, all the changes made it accessible for everyone to stay interested.

Ezodagrom
Sep 19, 2016, 03:54 AM
Well, your opinion would be in the minority.
The game is doing better then ever with the current content, and method.
And not alot of other MMORPG does what you want, since it doesn't make it "fun"
so why should the PSO2 team, do something that the majority of player and current new player aren't interested, why should they cater to a known minority?
I just don't get it. Are newbies there really okay with the current very fragile enemies? Is it really that fun getting everything handed to them so easily?

There's just no learning class mechanics and enemies/bosses patterns with how weak they are in lower difficulties. PAs in general received huge buffs at lower levels at the start of ep3 and recently they also added NT weapons which are stronger than the originals, all these buffs for players in content that was designed for how the game was on ep1, so the result is the currently really poor balance between players (too strong) and enemies (too weak).
Also, how is the gap from SH to XH/Ult fine? Wouldn't the game actually be more fun for newbies with a more consistant growth in difficulty from N to XH?

Not saying that enemies should be HP sponges, but the current state is the complete opposite, and I don't get it how anyone can find the current lower difficulties fun, a game that brags about being an "action" rpg with enemies that almost don't fight back.

isCasted
Sep 19, 2016, 05:42 AM
I just don't get it. Are newbies there really okay with the current very fragile enemies? Is it really that fun getting everything handed to them so easily?
Making things as easy as possible (at the very start, at least) is a norm for gaming nowadays. A lot of typical gamers, while may not approve it, are used to it. The gaming industry is growing rapidly, so games are being made accessible for people with no prior experience in gaming. In case of PSO2, however, it really feels like overkill. Still, when you are new to the game you are mostly overwhelmed by a whole new world, and PSO2 does a decent job at it.

There's just no learning class mechanics and enemies/bosses patterns with how weak they are in lower difficulties.
I'd argue that Normal should let players adjust to control scheme, Hard - to learning gear and progression-related intricacies and whatnot, and then VH to make players actually care about enemies (also, difficulties should be renamed to Basic, Easy, Normal, Hard and Very Hard). The problem is that these things are never enforced, and big chunks of important information can be skipped entirely thanks to EQs and 15k EXP tickets. I've seen quite a few newbies reach VH without a subclass and any later zones in the game unlocked. But there also are people who get bored of doing same shit over and over until VH. There's just too many random factors in players' progression. In order to address this issue a massive rebalance is necessary, but it's seem to be too much work for SEGA at this point.

Keilyn
Sep 19, 2016, 06:24 AM
Reading this thread reminded me of why I love my fiancee so much as far as gaming goes...

While we are both emotional, and my words are more logical; her actions are far more natural and logical, which sometimes have me ask "what am I doing here?"

She plays PvE games for the story, but if she reaches the end of a game without the story leading up to it, she is able to do what I am not able to do... and its to actually walk away as i tend to come back for more. "PvE is really about story and development. Getting to know those characters, even if its own our personal avatar" and yet "I am my characters, and my characters are me" is the feeling that PSO-2 tries to convey in how deep the player-character goes in customization and creation... even the player-rooms have a focus to develop the personality of the character, or they would need to even exist.

However, in the end even online.. the game is still PvE.
and that is what people forget.

Her time in PSO-2 was the shortest.
She logged in and started doing matterboard... and said "oh a character-based plot from the start... which means over half of this game's story is going to be filler" and all of a sudden, EQ starts... oh my... its Falz! and so she does the EQ and sees the "Congratulations" which reminded her of PSO's "You are the Hero" and she asked "What just happened" and someone told her "We Won the game"

So her session ends and she asks me "Should I continue playing this game?I beat it already? Falz. Falz is dead... He was killed in Normal Mode...and the ending was a Movie + a "Congratulations" screen. The game is over, but I had fun. So she logs off. I ask her "what about the matterboard" and she says "What about the matterboard!? if a game is going to give me the final battle and reveal the final villain, without forcing me to actually go through the story, that's on the developer for being stupid. She uninstalled the game saying "I can picture the toughest difficulty, players win the game to get better gear even though they fail to realize that they do not need better gear because they already won the game and this is PvE, not PvP."

The cold hard truth is that she was right, and she did what I was not able to do...
Which was to realize and know the truth, act on it... and walk away.
of course I like this game and I play more for my character and myself than the story to the game.

Phantasy Star games have always been a double-edged sword to me. I can love them as much as I want, but I know deep down that its structure really is one that focuses on the player-character itself and not truly on the story, which is exactly why its like losing a war before it even begins because it means the story itself will be the casualty.

Ezodagrom
Sep 19, 2016, 06:55 AM
Making things as easy as possible (at the very start, at least) is a norm for gaming nowadays. A lot of typical gamers, while may not approve it, are used to it. The gaming industry is growing rapidly, so games are being made accessible for people with no prior experience in gaming. In case of PSO2, however, it really feels like overkill. Still, when you are new to the game you are mostly overwhelmed by a whole new world, and PSO2 does a decent job at it.

I'd argue that Normal should let players adjust to control scheme, Hard - to learning gear and progression-related intricacies and whatnot, and then VH to make players actually care about enemies (also, difficulties should be renamed to Basic, Easy, Normal, Hard and Very Hard). The problem is that these things are never enforced, and big chunks of important information can be skipped entirely thanks to EQs and 15k EXP tickets. I've seen quite a few newbies reach VH without a subclass and any later zones in the game unlocked. But there also are people who get bored of doing same shit over and over until VH. There's just too many random factors in players' progression.
As I said, I'm not saying that enemies should be HP sponges, if they were to ever buff to enemies from N to SH, IMO it'd be fine if a possible rebalanced normal mode would still be easier than normal mode at launch, but as it is now it's just far too easy.

I used a secondary account (which doesn't have the lvl 75 title stats boosts to mess up the results), and rushed through a few of the early quests, a lvl 2~3 HU can defeat lvl 7 enemies with a single use of lvl 1 ein raketen (beginner gunslash PA) and the beginner 1* gunslash, without JA'ing (no mag and no units). That's the current state of the game for a newbie...


In order to address this issue a massive rebalance is necessary, but it's seem to be too much work for SEGA at this point.
Indeed... Ever since Tokyo was added, I think that existing arks quests could really use some streamlining, to get rid of some of the clutter.
I think that it would be nice that when/if they ever add XH to previous areas, they changed older areas arks quests to be a bit more like Tokyo (though this would mean having to change alot of existing COs, so I guess that's too much effort).

Spoiler-boxed what for me would be the ideal arks quest/free field setup for every area, just pointless ideas that are never gonna happen, but, may as well post anyway? ._.
[spoiler-box]- Single party points based (200 points) arks quest, to introduce the area.

- Single party arks quest with a set map, set spawns, set emergency codes, a bit like tokyo's train ghidoran quest, but alot longer (ideally something that would take an average new player about 15~25 minutes to solo, more than that would be too long I guess...). Having set spawns and codes would serve as a way to introduce those to the player.

For me something like this would be nice as a 3 parts quest, part 1 would start with the area's weaker enemies and introduce stronger ones later on. Part 2 would add darkers into the mix (in the case of ruins, since it already starts with darkers, could introduce krabahda and cyclonehda here) and area specific emergency codes.
At the end of part 2 would be a fight with the area's miniboss and part 3 would be the area's boss (though forest and desert could be a problem, I think ragne could work well as the desert boss, and maybe fang banshee alone for forest, since banther would be way too much for such an early quest).

- And lastly the 1000 points free field, one part multi party area with random spawns and gathering points.[/spoiler-box]

TehCubey
Sep 19, 2016, 07:11 AM
I remember the good old days, before Braver, when Fury Stance gave a static s-atk bonus instead of a percentile increase.

What, did I say good? Ha ha hell no. It was horrible. I don't know how people can look at butting your head against a stone wall repeatedly with nostalgia, but that's how playing a melee class felt like back then.

Harder difficulty supposedly makes you learn the ropes of the game, but back then I didn't learn shit. I wanted to get better but I couldn't because the game didn't let me. It didn't help that the pso-w community was if anything else even worse than it is now, full of self-absorbed people lost in their own achievements and very few actually willing to help a noob out.

Timeskip to present day and you know what? Maybe the game is too easy nowadays. Maybe it's trivial at difficulties below SH. But that doesn't matter because people who still want to learn the game, to get better - they will get better. In the end it's a matter of personal motivation first and foremost. People who don't give a damn about improvement, good builds or whatever can't be forced to get better nowadays, but they couldn't in the past either.

And as long as EQs exist, level is meaningless in terms of achievement because you can just leech off your MPA. It's true now, it was true 3 years ago.

Ziel
Sep 19, 2016, 07:55 AM
Well yes you can buy sat can lv 1 as soon as you start the game, you can cheese the game with it? only in normal, once difficulty starts ramping up you cannot one shot everything with it, once bosses get to their faster movesets you will be lucky to pull it without massive hunter, and thats whitout counting the setups you have to get to actually one-shot bosses attack-wise, just wait until SH Dragon EX or Quartz, you will not one shot everything in the game with a level 1 sat cannon, it is op in the start of the game but it will soon fall to the "impractical but awesome" category if you depend too much on it.

Why yes, the game is ez and everything non-tokyo (except crows and bears) i one shot with extreme prejudice in XH but it took me months of grinding and affixing (and a carpton of money) to get to this (unless you cheese with those "one shot banish chain videos" those are niche builds made ONLY for that, its not viable to compare to those videos).

And dear photons im grateful for the stones and collect files, you dont know the pain of 300 anga farms whitout a single anga weapon drop that fits your class (plus the "sekrit lock´d mpa" that came after, which made even the farming more exclusive) if it werent for them, a lot of us wouldnt have endgame weapons yet.

Also its SEGA´s fault the powercreep got to this, do you expect people to grind a month for lv 60 when ALL the content they pull is 13✪? Do i need to remind you you need Three copies of the same weapon with the same element to max it since element is a % damage bonus? If you add the same weapon with different element it only adds up +10 so its FOUR (assuming base weapon is 20 ele).

Also if they do grind for a month to level up, do you expect them to grind for months to get endgame gear? i grinded anga before actually quitting the game at 300 hunts (and theres people who did more than 800 runs, with no viable weapon drop) with no progression until TD4 came up, let me tell you its bs and i rather everyone be handed options on what to grind and where so we all get even fields with XH gear and get austere for the "ultimate grind weapon" than have XH td4s/magatsu/PD with people running up non full element pot 1 bio weapons.

You do not want the old grindfest.

MightyHarken
Sep 19, 2016, 10:24 AM
Well yes you can buy sat can lv 1 as soon as you start the game, you can cheese the game with it? only in normal, once difficulty starts ramping up you cannot one shot everything with it, once bosses get to their faster movesets you will be lucky to pull it without massive hunter, and thats whitout counting the setups you have to get to actually one-shot bosses attack-wise, just wait until SH Dragon EX or Quartz, you will not one shot everything in the game with a level 1 sat cannon, it is op in the start of the game but it will soon fall to the "impractical but awesome" category if you depend too much on it.

Why yes, the game is ez and everything non-tokyo (except crows and bears) i one shot with extreme prejudice in XH but it took me months of grinding and affixing (and a carpton of money) to get to this (unless you cheese with those "one shot banish chain videos" those are niche builds made ONLY for that, its not viable to compare to those videos).

And dear photons im grateful for the stones and collect files, you dont know the pain of 300 anga farms whitout a single anga weapon drop that fits your class (plus the "sekrit lock´d mpa" that came after, which made even the farming more exclusive) if it werent for them, a lot of us wouldnt have endgame weapons yet.

Also its SEGA´s fault the powercreep got to this, do you expect people to grind a month for lv 60 when ALL the content they pull is 13✪? Do i need to remind you you need Three copies of the same weapon with the same element to max it since element is a % damage bonus? If you add the same weapon with different element it only adds up +10 so its FOUR (assuming base weapon is 20 ele).

Also if they do grind for a month to level up, do you expect them to grind for months to get endgame gear? i grinded anga before actually quitting the game at 300 hunts (and theres people who did more than 800 runs, with no viable weapon drop) with no progression until TD4 came up, let me tell you its bs and i rather everyone be handed options on what to grind and where so we all get even fields with XH gear and get austere for the "ultimate grind weapon" than have XH td4s/magatsu/PD with people running up non full element pot 1 bio weapons.

You do not want the old grindfest.

Everything Ziel said. The only thing this game needs to be Top tier for me, is adding ultimate mode to all planets and get rid of the UQ system. after that, just keep adding new interesting planets with interesting mechanics and that's it.

ohmy
Sep 19, 2016, 10:39 AM
As with all online rpgs, the later the endgame, the easier the content before it.
So obviously when XH is 2 years old we are at around the same point as the last days of SH being the highest difficulty. Only when a new difficulty is actually new it's any sort of challenge, after a while power creep makes sure people catch up and it's easy again.

I also remember ep 1, but definitely not fondly.
The game has improved a LOT since then. Not saying Sega didn't introduce a a lot of new problems but it's a lot more fun than it used to be back then.

Lumir
Sep 19, 2016, 11:19 AM
I do enjoy the game still.

Im not upset with the grindfest missing, I just cant agree with how easy i am able to blast right through all this early game content. Just hit snow area and same stuff happening here. Just run to the specific area, kill said mob, if its a boss WB and PA it.

As for those saying... "With the amount of content its to be expected" Just slap yourself. PSO has always been about recycling content using higher difficulties, its not a increase in content, rather a reuse of old content with "new numbers" and a few extra items... ill leave it at that.

Ezodagrom
Sep 19, 2016, 11:41 AM
Im not upset with the grindfest missing, I just cant agree with how easy i am able to blast right through all this early game content. Just hit snow area and same stuff happening here. Just run to the specific area, kill said mob, if its a boss WB and PA it.
Pretty much, it's not a matter of how fast players level up, but about how fragile enemies are in difficulties below XH.

Players got several buffs throughout the years while the difficulty modes stayed mostly the same (in some cases, some enemies/bosses were even nerfed), it's just not right being able to defeat enemies with just one single use of a beginner weapon's PA when starting the game.

Tunga
Sep 19, 2016, 11:45 AM
The real challenge in this game imo. Is doing EQs by youself or with a low amount of players. Try doing pd solo or UQ lilipa (nab is shit) or 4 man mag (brgu if you want to cheese it), Low man CM, etc. Not just doing silly exploration quest and doing nothing but spamming WB in it.

Lumir
Sep 19, 2016, 11:51 AM
Pretty much, it's not a matter of how fast players level up, but about how fragile enemies are in difficulties below XH.

Players got several buffs throughout the years while the difficulty modes stayed mostly the same (in some cases, some enemies/bosses were even nerfed), it's just not right being able to defeat enemies with just one single use of a beginner weapon's PA when starting the game.

I did find it somewhat harder on snow panthers since i tried to aim myself with the Z button. That being said as soon as i switch back to lock on, easy 2k+ hits. So the difficulty is still somewhat apparent for those not using satellite cannon and not using the auto lock on feature with WB, but who would not do this? I guess other classes but im sure they have something they can use.


The real challenge in this game imo. Is doing EQs by youself or with a low amount of players. Try doing Td1 solo or UQ lilipa (nab is shit) or 4 man mag (brgu if you want to cheese it), Low man CM, etc. Not just doing silly exploration quest and doing nothing but spamming WB.

I can see the difficulty slowly increasing. And im sure those quest will be fun that you mentioned. I just have such an easy time working towards those quest. BTW i dont spam wb, I usually apply it to the head of an enemy and spam PAs. After i run out of PP ill switch to a launcher for auto attacks until i have enough PP again or the current WB runs out. Rinse repeat, and thats with just basic PAs I havent used sat cannon or any other PAs that i can buy.

Ziel
Sep 19, 2016, 12:28 PM
The real challenge in this game imo. Is doing EQs by youself or with a low amount of players. Try doing Td1 solo or UQ lilipa (nab is shit) or 4 man mag (brgu if you want to cheese it), Low man CM, etc. Not just doing silly exploration quest and doing nothing but spamming WB.


Self-imposing challenges are mostly the outcome of badly or non existant endgame designs; a playthrough of a game wherein part of the playerbase plays under a restriction not required by the game itself in an attempt to increase the difficulty if they´re not happy by the difficulty standards, replay value, longevity and/or to show off their "mad skillz" is in no-way the fault of the players but of the game itself and its developers or the higher-ups decisions (which we know play heavily in the content here).

These restrictions can range from the fairly simple (a refusal to make use of a Game Breaker, in OP case with WB) to the near-impossible ("Hey, solo magatsu in XH without a WB class and dont jump ever! thats difficult!"), you can impose as many restrictions as you want to increase your fun, just please dont impose those on other people that dont share your view (the scrubs that say the game is too easy when they spawn camp TD4 with a premade consisting of 10 Fo, a Br/Gu and a Ra/x and call anything else including pugs that dont make 2 runs with an excess 20 mins "bad runs" and "sub-optimal" and whine because their EQs lasted 5 mins more that they should be supposed to, seriously take a chill pill up yours).

Those are design flaws in SEGA´s department (a.k.a Fault) that they allowed the powercreep to get to these levels whitout adjusting lower difficulties to be linear, most of the difficulty comes from bad geared players who got used to said "easy carry" in EQs slowing other people down or not knowing that XH loser needs both bracers to be broken before the clock gets unveiled, one of the reasons "dps witch-hunting" with the parser came to be, which also made it banned (rip).

TL;DR: "Difficulty increase" shouldnt be paired with ridiculous not-the-intended-use ways of playing or restrictions in that the only way to enjoy the game is to gimp yourself.

Disclaimer:
[SPOILER-BOX]not in any way calling the quoted dude a scrub, just making a point that when people think the only fun in the game is to move odds in favor of the game so you can get "the thrill of losing", something is wrong with the game design.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Tunga
Sep 19, 2016, 01:43 PM
After i run out of PP ill switch to a launcher for auto attacks until i have enough PP again or the current WB runs out. Rinse repeat, and thats with just basic PAs I havent used sat cannon or any other PAs that i can buy.

Instead of using lawnchair just throw some grenades. They will refill your pp a lot faster (if you have the skills unlocked). And try one point, end attraction and sneak shooter for bosses that you cant hit with sat cannon.

nguuuquaaa
Sep 19, 2016, 02:46 PM
I do enjoy the game still.

Im not upset with the grindfest missing, I just cant agree with how easy i am able to blast right through all this early game content. Just hit snow area and same stuff happening here. Just run to the specific area, kill said mob, if its a boss WB and PA it.

As for those saying... "With the amount of content its to be expected" Just slap yourself. PSO has always been about recycling content using higher difficulties, its not a increase in content, rather a reuse of old content with "new numbers" and a few extra items... ill leave it at that.

Switching class will make you rethink about that. You will want easy stuff for fast leveling so you don't miss even one excube or Collection Files progress from XH contents.

Selphea
Sep 19, 2016, 06:21 PM
Part of it is because this is your second time round and you know what to do like take Weak Hit Advance + WB and use End Attract/Sat Can. The average pub player will never WB, learn only RATK Up and spam nothing but One Point using a 20% ungrinded CFile weapon then blame everyone else if they're not carried

Zysets
Sep 19, 2016, 07:06 PM
I never played Ranger, but I've redone my skill trees quite a few times back during the first year of the game because I was dumb, I think it's fair to say if you don't have prior experience, you'll unintentionally make the game worse for yourself like that, whether you started then or now.

Altiea
Sep 19, 2016, 07:10 PM
Part of it is because this is your second time round and you know what to do like take Weak Hit Advance + WB and use End Attract/Sat Can. The average pub player will never WB, learn only RATK Up and spam nothing but One Point using a 20% ungrinded CFile weapon then blame everyone else if they're not carried

Pretty much this; despite the early stages being very easy, the game does no hand holding past the tutorial. You're thrown into the game with no direction and expected to either find other players who can tell you how to get better or just walk into content blindly and hope you don't screw it up.

EvilMag
Sep 19, 2016, 07:18 PM
Pretty much, it's not a matter of how fast players level up, but about how fragile enemies are in difficulties below XH.

Players got several buffs throughout the years while the difficulty modes stayed mostly the same (in some cases, some enemies/bosses were even nerfed), it's just not right being able to defeat enemies with just one single use of a beginner weapon's PA when starting the game.
Its pretty dumb that they changed the starting PAs. They fucking gave HUs Over End as the starting PA as well as Guren for BRs. Fucking really SEGA?

Ezodagrom
Sep 19, 2016, 07:51 PM
Its pretty dumb that they changed the starting PAs. They fucking gave HUs Over End as the starting PA as well as Guren for BRs. Fucking really SEGA?
Yeah... Though even if they didn't change those, the situation would be mostly the same anyway, I mentioned it a couple pages ago, using an alternate account (so there's no stats boosts from lvl 75 class titles), I rushed through a bit of early game to check out how easily a low level player defeats enemies in a later forest quest, the result, a lvl 2~3 HU can defeat lvl 7 enemies with a single use of lvl 1 ein raketen (without JA'ing, with the beginner gunslash, no mag, no units). That is kinda sad really.

I just don't get how some people can defend this, but I guess there is a defense force for everything. ._.

Keilyn
Sep 19, 2016, 08:30 PM
Yeah... Though even if they didn't change those, the situation would be mostly the same anyway, I mentioned it a couple pages ago, using an alternate account (so there's no stats boosts from lvl 75 class titles), I rushed through a bit of early game to check out how easily a low level player defeats enemies in a later forest quest, the result, a lvl 2~3 HU can defeat lvl 7 enemies with a single use of lvl 1 ein raketen (without JA'ing, with the beginner gunslash, no mag, no units). That is kinda sad really.

I just don't get how some people can defend this, but I guess there is a defense force for everything. ._.

If you want ridiculous..
Try Summoner below XH....
and let the BS fly ^_^

Altiea
Sep 19, 2016, 08:47 PM
If you want ridiculous..
Try Summoner below XH....
and let the BS fly ^_^

SU is designed to basically walk all over early game. It's when you get to endgame where you actually have to start playing it properly.

EvilMag
Sep 19, 2016, 11:13 PM
Yeah... Though even if they didn't change those, the situation would be mostly the same anyway, I mentioned it a couple pages ago, using an alternate account (so there's no stats boosts from lvl 75 class titles), I rushed through a bit of early game to check out how easily a low level player defeats enemies in a later forest quest, the result, a lvl 2~3 HU can defeat lvl 7 enemies with a single use of lvl 1 ein raketen (without JA'ing, with the beginner gunslash, no mag, no units). That is kinda sad really.

I just don't get how some people can defend this, but I guess there is a defense force for everything. ._.
Funny thing is I took someone to Sanctum supression to power level them and they were one shotting everything at Lv1. N Sanctum has around Lv26 enemies iirc.

Ezodagrom
Sep 20, 2016, 02:15 AM
Funny thing is I took someone to Sanctum supression to power level them and they were one shotting everything at Lv1. N Sanctum has around Lv26 enemies iirc.
Not surprising, but, that's really disappointing, how bad it's gotten...

Garnet_Moon
Sep 20, 2016, 09:47 PM
I haven't played in a while myself, either, due to frustration over the english patch breaking every week during maintenance.

I'm going to give it a second chance because bouncer looks like it's fun. Also, I want to kick high! \o/

Good to know alot of the starting pain is lessened... lol

Keilyn
Sep 20, 2016, 10:06 PM
SU is designed to basically walk all over early game. It's when you get to endgame where you actually have to start playing it properly.

That is my point.
Reaching Endgame should not be the point to learn a class.
It should be from the very beginning.

MMORPGs of all kinds offer this...
Action Games are notorious for the weight of the classes falling on early, mid, or late game.
In fact, the mid-game is supposed to be the toughest for many. Its the stage where they no longer get all the simplicity from starting, but they are not at the end of the game yet where they can outpower enemies. Now they begin to have to truly focus, build, and learn... but some classes just skip that altogether. :(

Altiea
Sep 20, 2016, 11:05 PM
That is my point.
Reaching Endgame should not be the point to learn a class.
It should be from the very beginning.

MMORPGs of all kinds offer this...
Action Games are notorious for the weight of the classes falling on early, mid, or late game.
In fact, the mid-game is supposed to be the toughest for many. Its the stage where they no longer get all the simplicity from starting, but they are not at the end of the game yet where they can outpower enemies. Now they begin to have to truly focus, build, and learn... but some classes just skip that altogether. :(

To be fair, SU is the ultimate definition of a crutch character. Stupidly overpowered for 90% of the game, then becomes dramatically underpowered or equal to competitive classes at the end. I don't really know what they were aiming for when they designed SU, but it was probably to have an entry level Class that people could jump into easily to access the game's content.

Lumir
Sep 20, 2016, 11:33 PM
Part of it is because this is your second time round and you know what to do like take Weak Hit Advance + WB and use End Attract/Sat Can. The average pub player will never WB, learn only RATK Up and spam nothing but One Point using a 20% ungrinded CFile weapon then blame everyone else if they're not carried

I have to disagree. Most players now days are researchers and will find forums and wiki's. The longer the games out the more info, so anyone starting new or even returning will find the best builds available at the time they start playing. Unless ofc they just jump into the game with no prior info gathering. Not only that, but I think the japanese descriptions are much more detailed, correct me if im wrong. The current english ones dont tell you how much % increase WB gives and other skills have missing info which im sure the JP text contains. And if im wrong the jp wiki sure lets you know. And I wont even mention data miners who analyze the game code before its even launched...

I myself almost thought about getting all R-atk skills for the quick damage, but durring my DL i researched and called up all my MMORPG experience, and together I realized % damage is better then flat damage(in PSO2s case because its a low amount). Not only that with the new NT weapons and their high damage values...

I did like the fact at launch that I had to translate the japanese and scan their webpages for info, not only that I had to remember my old PSOBB days and try to gather all my experience with it in prep for pso2. It was fun trying to find a build.

Lumpen Thingy
Sep 20, 2016, 11:37 PM
I have to disagree. Most players now days are researchers and will find forums and wiki's. The longer the games out the more info, so anyone starting new or even returning will find the best builds available at the time they start playing. Unless ofc they just jump into the game with no prior info gathering. Not only that, but I think the japanese descriptions are much more detailed, correct me if im wrong. The current english ones dont tell you how much % increase WB gives and other skills have missing info which im sure the JP text contains. And if im wrong the jp wiki sure lets you know. And I wont even mention data miners who analyze the game code before its even launched...

I myself almost thought about getting all R-atk skills for the quick damage, but durring my DL i researched and called up all my MMORPG experience, and together I realized % damage is better then flat damage(in PSO2s case because its a low amount). Not only that with the new NT weapons and their high damage values...

I did like the fact at launch that I had to translate the japanese and scan their webpages for info, not only that I had to remember my old PSOBB days and try to gather all my experience with it in prep for pso2. It was fun trying to find a build.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......................no.. ..................people even in ult or XH are still trash more then 80% of the time so don't give me that dur everyone goes for good builds near end game crap.

Altiea
Sep 20, 2016, 11:45 PM
I have to disagree. Most players now days are researchers and will find forums and wiki's. The longer the games out the more info, so anyone starting new or even returning will find the best builds available at the time they start playing. Unless ofc they just jump into the game with no prior info gathering. Not only that, but I think the japanese descriptions are much more detailed, correct me if im wrong. The current english ones dont tell you how much % increase WB gives and other skills have missing info which im sure the JP text contains. And if im wrong the jp wiki sure lets you know. And I wont even mention data miners who analyze the game code before its even launched...

I myself almost thought about getting all R-atk skills for the quick damage, but durring my DL i researched and called up all my MMORPG experience, and together I realized % damage is better then flat damage(in PSO2s case because its a low amount). Not only that with the new NT weapons and their high damage values...

I did like the fact at launch that I had to translate the japanese and scan their webpages for info, not only that I had to remember my old PSOBB days and try to gather all my experience with it in prep for pso2. It was fun trying to find a build.

This is assuming that many players will try to do research about the game before they play it, which a substantial number don't do. It's difficult to tell how to figure out where to look to get advice to know how to play properly if you don't actually know what you're looking for. That is, unless they find online resources teaching them about the game and what it offers. Many players' first experience with a game is usually through word of mouth, online footage, or simply diving in headfirst.

Besides, would you try to find out how to be good at a game that you're not even sure if you're going to enjoy yet?

Zysets
Sep 20, 2016, 11:51 PM
Yeah, there are plenty of players who don't bother to look up information, ever. In the case of western players, I'd imagine it's the lack of up to date english language wikis, and just the general disconnect of playing a foreign game. Maybe they don't even know where to find help from a community. I can understand and read japanese well enough to browse JP wikis and forums with ease, but I bet it's a huge hassle without knowing anything, and google translate can be really unreliable at times.

And really, most players who know what they're getting into from the start are people who came form PSO or PSU anyways, I imagine a lot of new players join because of a recommendation, maybe they saw an anime collab the game had and are a fan of that series, or hell, we can assume the PSO2 anime itself was motivating enough.

Altiea
Sep 20, 2016, 11:56 PM
Yeah, there are plenty of players who don't bother to look up information, ever. In the case of western players, I'd imagine it's the lack of up to date english language wikis, and just the general disconnect of playing a foreign game. Maybe they don't even know where to find help from a community. I can understand and read japanese well enough to browse JP wikis and forums with ease, but I bet it's a huge hassle without knowing anything, and google translate can be really unreliable at times.

It's even harder for English players new to the series, because Phantasy Star is relatively niche outside of Japan (and is probably why SEGA shoved it out of focus after PSPo2 to focus on their money-makers), so there isn't a lot of extensive translated data to draw upon unless you know about the English community for this game or just Google it and hope you get good quality data.

Zysets
Sep 21, 2016, 12:29 AM
It's even harder for English players new to the series, because Phantasy Star is relatively niche outside of Japan (and is probably why SEGA shoved it out of focus after PSPo2 to focus on their money-makers), so there isn't a lot of extensive translated data to draw upon unless you know about the English community for this game or just Google it and hope you get good quality data.

Yeah that's pretty much it. I can imagine a situation where a new player with no prior experience gets interested in the game through chance encounter, or even PSO2's own anime (which did get official english subs), trying to find information and only finding an out of date wiki like Cirnopedia or something. I've even seen people who didn't know PSO2 was a real game, but were watching the anime series earlier this year.

A bit off topic, and I know the localization discussion has been beaten to death at this point, but I don't blame SoA for pushing PSO2 aside considering the hacking and piracy that followed PSPo2's english language release. That's probably one of the reasons why we didn't get Infinity too.

Altiea
Sep 21, 2016, 12:35 AM
A bit off topic, and I know the localization discussion has been beaten to death at this point, but I don't blame SoA for pushing PSO2 aside considering the hacking and piracy that followed PSPo2's english language release. That's probably one of the reasons why we didn't get Infinity too.

There are way too many rumors at this point to know what actually killed the localization. The TV Tropes page for SEGA's Project DIVA series (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/HatsuneMikuProjectDiva) claims that it was the cash shop issues that killed Universe that killed PSO2's localization.

ShadowStarEdge
Sep 21, 2016, 01:20 AM
It's even harder for English players new to the series, because Phantasy Star is relatively niche outside of Japan (and is probably why SEGA shoved it out of focus after PSPo2 to focus on their money-makers), so there isn't a lot of extensive translated data to draw upon unless you know about the English community for this game or just Google it and hope you get good quality data.

Its not only that but if you google stuff like builds and gear you'll get tons of outdated info from like 2014 popping up first, which of course is absolutely irrelevant now. Although Arks-visiphone has been updating at an alright pace and even I use it from time to time for weapons and the like

DRAGONxNOGARD
Oct 6, 2016, 12:23 PM
one thing what i found is a better do XHEQ with JP MPA than US due i think JPs know a strategy how to easy victory than US where playing a noob players and do anythink to troll example AFK in TD or summon friend partners in free exploration EQ so have 12/12 with 9 NPCs and just 3 players

SakuRei
Oct 12, 2016, 03:24 AM
First off... STILL NO PSO2 USA version? FAIL! Maby soon since SEA released.
--snipped--


Wow... There are still people waiting for PSO2 US to get released...?

*laughs while heading out of the door*

Keilyn
Oct 12, 2016, 01:52 PM
one thing what i found is a better do XHEQ with JP MPA than US due i think JPs know a strategy how to easy victory than US where playing a noob players and do anythink to troll example AFK in TD or summon friend partners in free exploration EQ so have 12/12 with 9 NPCs and just 3 players

Wait a minute...
I thought in EQs, Friend Partners were disabled...