Next unit upgrade question.

[Crayzus]

I'm pretty new and I'm currently I am using gloom/gloom/luxe.

I think it's time to upgrade what I'm using.

I was thinking of upgrading to full Saiki but I hear that it has become outdated.

I happened to get an Izane arm so I saw people with setups

Invade/Izane/invade

This would be more s-attack and slightly less pp.

Saiha/Izane/saiha

This would be a crapton of HP but no pp.

I think these are my only options available within reach and that don't rely on future drops.

I really want to use the Izane arm for something so I can get an extra ring.

Or I can just settle for Saiki.

You guys have any suggestions?

[isCasted]

Saiki isn't exactly outdated, it still works perfectly fine. Very accessible, good defenses, great PP, high versatility etc. The "modern" setups like Austere+Circ Ray or w/e are not so much of an upgrade, and they take quite a bit of effort+luck.

[Z-0]

You definitely want to be going for Saiki, it's the best set to be getting as a stop-gap before 12* units.

Austere is pretty good, but it's not worth the cost when 12* units are a far better investment (and work better since rings!).

So right now:

Gloam → Saiki → Izane (or Union if you can't get full set)

Is what you should be going for.

[echofaith]

Austere set+ 12* leg or Double set +12* rear would be ideal stat wise. If you dont mind the ring slot from the 12* unit, then saiki is not that much far behind.

[TehCubey]

Austere rear + arm and whatever 12* leg you can find. It's less affordable than saiki but works so much better.

Full set Izane might be better than the above setup (good luck getting all three pieces to drop though), but Union isn't. Upgrade to a full Union set only if you are desperate for more ring slots.

EDIT: If you lack money or don't have any 12* legs, saiki set is acceptable too. It's just a stepping stone rather than something to really aim for.

[Dualdiamond]

For S-atk classes, would Izane/Deadlion/Izane be better or worse than full Izane set?

[Flaoc]

ignore cube and just go for full 12* set.. union or izane.. melee really benefits more from the rings

[Evangelion X.XX]

Also, RaHu, really benefits from 12* Units 'cause of rings like Non-Weak Bonus, P Weak Bullet, Air Reversal, Jumping Dodge.

[TehCubey]

For S-atk classes, would Izane/Deadlion/Izane be better or worse than full Izane set?

Full Izane is better.


ignore cube and just go for full 12* set.. union or izane.. melee really benefits more from the rings

I'll bite. What kind of L-rings are so must-have for melee that you need more than two equipped at the same time?

Please provide specific examples.


Also, RaHu, really benefits from 12* Units 'cause of rings like Non-Weak Bonus, P Weak Bullet, Air Reversal, Jumping Dodge.

Non-Weak Bonus: good ring but situational, equip when you are using a launcher and not all the time.

P Weak Bullet: crutch. Good players don't need it.

Air Reversal: decently useful - for melee. If you get thrown into the air so many times that you get decent mileage out of this as a RA, something is wrong.

Jumping Dodge: admittedly I was never interested in this one, but it looked too long and awkward to use. Could be useful for RA, I don't know.

[Altiea]

Non-Weak Bonus: good ring but situational, equip when you are using a launcher and not all the time.

P Weak Bullet: crutch. Good players don't need it.

Air Reversal: decently useful - for melee. If you get thrown into the air so many times that you get decent mileage out of this as a RA, something is wrong.

Jumping Dodge: admittedly I was never interested in this one, but it looked too long and awkward to use. Could be useful for RA, I don't know.

The thing is that RA main has limited options as to what Rings to take. You're probably gonna be putting these on as Ring Skills because there are only so many other options.

Also, Jumping Dodge has i-frames. Having enough altitude to not get hit is also very good for Ranged, as Gunners can probably attest.

[TehCubey]

That's true, if you are going for a full 12* set anyway. But unless you somehow have full Izane, I don't see how that is preferable.

My point is, you could get some slight or situational use out of the ability to equip even more L-Rings. But is it worth more than 40 HP, 10 atk and a whopping 12 PP? I think not.

The stats above is how much you lose by equipping full Union vs Union leg + Austere Rear/Arm.

[Evangelion X.XX]

Non-Weak Bonus: good ring but situational, equip when you are using a launcher and not all the time.

P Weak Bullet: crutch. Good players don't need it.

Air Reversal: decently useful - for melee. If you get thrown into the air so many times that you get decent mileage out of this as a RA, something is wrong.

Jumping Dodge: admittedly I was never interested in this one, but it looked too long and awkward to use. Could be useful for RA, I don't know.

"Non-Weak Bonus: good ring but situational..." --> Most of the game is mobbing.

P Weak Bullet: Have you ever tried to wb a target when shits are flying everywhere? Even good players miss occasionally. This ring guarantees consistent wb provided locked-on. Therefore it saves time, and wb.

Air Reversal: what you said can be applied to melee also; regardless of whether you're melee or ranged or anything, if you get thrown around into the air so many times, you suck, period. Still a useful ring, regardless.

Jumping Dodge: i-frames; cheese enemies and some bosses.

[Altiea]

That's true, if you are going for a full 12* set anyway. But unless you somehow have full Izane, I don't see how that is preferable.

My point is, you could get some slight or situational use out of the ability to equip even more L-Rings. But is it worth more than 40 HP, 10 atk and a whopping 12 PP? I think not.

The stats above is how much you lose by equipping full Union vs Union leg + Austere Rear/Arm.

This is why there isn't really a defined answer for this kind of question, as it depends very heavily on what you play. Do you play all sorts of classes on one character? Do you play a class that relies heavily on multiple rings? Do you play a class that only has two good rings? It really comes down to the direction you want to take with your character. Unless you want to build both, which is fine, but also time consuming.

[TehCubey]

Yeah, you know what? That's fine. There are different playstyles and some work better with more rings equipped at the same time than others. There's even a face tanking playstyle (though that's not my thing at all), so it's always important to consider options and what works best for you.

Which is why when people say I don't know what I'm talking about and that I should be ignored, I get cross. Especially if the same people said that most rings are useless before introduction of 12*s, but now that 12*s are here, the same rings are suddenly must-have.


"Non-Weak Bonus: good ring but situational..." --> Most of the game is mobbing.

Which is why you may want to equip the mobbing ring for mobbing, and something else (weak bullet, maybe jumping dodge) for bosses.

As a Fi, I use all three fighter-specific rings but that doesn't mean I want them equipped at the same time. Depending on what enemy I face, I switch the equipped ring to get the most benefit out of it. Because whenever one ring is very useful, the other two are usually pretty useless, and from my experience it's similar for most content in the game.

[Evangelion X.XX]

^Have you ever considered that some people simply don't want to switch out rings, or prefer utility over stats?

People are not YOU.

[Saagonsa]

^Have you ever considered that some people simply don't want to switch out rings, or prefer utility over stats?

People are not YOU.

That was exactly his point, dude.

[Xaelouse]

You can just use shortcut words and make it so that switching to your launcher equips Non-weak bonus and switching to your rifle equips P-weak bullet or jumping dodge at the press of one button.

[Evangelion X.XX]

That was exactly his point, dude.

I don't know exactly what you're trying to prove, but I'm replying to an earlier statement made in a previous post which states:

"Which is why you may want to equip the mobbing ring for mobbing, and something else (weak bullet, maybe jumping dodge) for bosses.

As a Fi, I use all three fighter-specific rings but that doesn't mean I want them equipped at the same time. Depending on what enemy I face, I switch the equipped ring to get the most benefit out of it. Because whenever one ring is very useful, the other two are usually pretty useless, and from my experience it's similar for most content in the game.."

There are rings like the Step JA Combo one that some people may find useful, that is, utility, etc.


You can just use shortcut words and make it so that switching to your launcher equips Non-weak bonus and switching to your rifle equips P-weak bullet or jumping dodge at the press of one button.

How about the other rings like, Jumping Dodge, and Air Reversal? Are you telling me you can switch all of these rings in conjunction with Non-Weak Bonus and P-Weak Bullet on the fly? I don't think so, even with shortcut words..

[Z-0]

Did you just say P-Weak Bullet is a crutch?

It's hardly anything but, it lets you do many more strategies that are impossible without it, because it lets you WB targets while being able to position yourself in favourable positions.

[spoiler-box]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXsX1mf6TPY[/spoiler-box]

For FiHu, Step JA Combo, Step Jump and Air Reversal are must-have rings as they let you do much many more things impossible without them, an example being able to Partisan Double correctly (better than all the FI weapons). Air Reversal is so that you don't lose your Dagger Gear if you get hit, as hitting the floor is a massive decrease to your DPS, and Step JA Combo is a no-brainer.

[TehCubey]

I question usefulness of step rings unless you make heavy use of offclass weapons. Frankly as a Fi I barely use the step action at all. Especially with twin daggers.

Air reversal is decent enough, it saves a bit of time if you get hit. Nothing extraordinary but I found it more useful than any other ring to put in that slot, so might as well use it.

[Saagonsa]

For FiHu, Step JA Combo, Step Jump and Air Reversal are must-have rings as they let you do much many more things impossible without them, an example being able to Partisan Double correctly (better than all the FI weapons). Air Reversal is so that you don't lose your Dagger Gear if you get hit, as hitting the floor is a massive decrease to your DPS, and Step JA Combo is a no-brainer.

I'd say you can make do with just step ja combo, depending on what you're using fighter for. TD's best PAs almost all have super armor, so you're very rarely going to get knocked down with them, and step jump isn't the most useful in boss eqs.

[Bellion]

Step JA is amazing with the Double Saber as to not waste a point in DS Wind Parrying + consumption of gear and instead using step to dodge and immediately go back on the offensive. Step JA into a Tornado Dance is good too.

Step Jump is just great in general and works everywhere. It does allow for faster approaches to any enemy that's within a certain range without having to use a movement PA.

You really need to give these rings an actual shot in conjunction with the others to see their value. Can you live without them? You most certainly can. Can they dramatically change the way you play for the better? Possibly, but you won't know until you've actually had a 12* set with rings on each of them.

[Reyvateil]

Figured I'd ask here over making my own thread. About the upgrade to Saiki till can get better units, what kind of affixes should I be doing on them and should I be extending them? I assume since its a stepping stone till I get better, I should probably only 3 affix them? I know people sometimes mention HP/PP craft but I never saw the option for that unless I need higher craft level or something.

[SteveCZ]

Make a cheap one. Soul/Atk III/Spr III/Fever or something. Your money is best spent to build the real one.

[Nyansan]

Figured I'd ask here over making my own thread. About the upgrade to Saiki till can get better units, what kind of affixes should I be doing on them and should I be extending them? I assume since its a stepping stone till I get better, I should probably only 3 affix them? I know people sometimes mention HP/PP craft but I never saw the option for that unless I need higher craft level or something.
Your choice if you want to extend if you'll feel you'd be lacking hp or pp (or to make them wearable at a lower level than vanilla saiki). HP and PP craft unlocking are available if you get your crafting level high enough. As for affixes 4s is pretty easy to do now. Soul/Stat3/Flict/Spirita or Stamina combo is easy to do now with extreceptors and gives decent balanced stats. Or even soul/stat3/spirit or stam/fever if you wanna be even cheaper :wacko:

[TehCubey]

Extending: Yes! Saiki are much, MUCH better extended. What you want is the special extension, which comes in three varieties: 100 HP, 10 PP, or a smattering of bonuses that is overall useless and should be avoided. My suggestion is, take as many 10 PP crafts as you feel comfortable with, but if you feel you'll have too little HP with 3x PP craft, craft one (or at most two) of your units for HP instead.

Special crafts come at level 3 and 8 of extension. The level 3 crafts are cheaper because you don't have to climb all the way to level 8, they do not offer as much defense but the bonus itself is the same.

Affixes: 3s is the lazy and cheap method. You can easily make a 4s unit without having to shell out a lot of money, especially now that the boost week is going on (but it ends after wednesday's maintenance so act fast!).

What I suggest is to affix soul/atk III/fever units, then upslot them into 4s with soul/atk III/flict/fever. This is because extreceptor fodder is much cheaper for 3s than 4s. I'll edit in a recipe for you in a few moments:

This guide assumes 3s soul receptor fodder is cheap (60k or less, current price on my ship is 42k). Also affixing using more than 2 pieces of fodder at a time is expensive so we will try to evade that except for the last step.

You need 3s units: soul/atk III/fever. If you don't have them, here's how to make them:

[SPOILER-BOX]Assuming you have units without any useful affixes on them:

Make sure they are 3s. If they aren't, downslot/upslot accordingly.

Step 1. Affix your unit with two fodders:
soul receptor + whatever + whatever
appropriate soul (for example quartz soul for s-atk) + whatever + whatever
Affix soul + two junk affixes. Your unit should now be soul/junk/junk

Step 2. Affix your unit with two fodders:
soul receptor + whatever + whatever
appropriate fever (for example latan fever for t-atk) + whatever + whatever
affix soul + fever + any junk affix, your unit should now be soul/fever/junk

Step 3. Affix with two fodders:
soul receptor + whatever + whatever
appropriate attack III (for example shoot III for r-atk) + whatever + whatever
affix soul + attack III + fever, make sure to use a 10% affix booster for a 100% transfer rate on the attack! If you don't have these boosters, buy one from visiphone for 1050 meseta.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Now if you do have them, here's how to upslot them to flict:
[SPOILER-BOX]Extend your units with following fodder:
flict (whatever) + whatever + whatever
soul receptor + whatever + whatever
extreme receptor + whatever + whatever
appropriate attack III + whatever + whatever

Pick all 4 abilities you want (soul/atk/flict/fever), the affix chance should be 70% for each. Use a 30% affix booster, for a 100% affix rate. If you don't have a booster like that, buy one from the excube shop for 20 cubes.[/SPOILER-BOX]

This combo creates units with 90 atk and 8 PP per unit (just from affixes), which is definitely not bad for less than 1m meseta each.

[Reyvateil]

Thank you for the replies, its extremely helpful! The recipe will come in handy for sure, since I'm still not super efficient when it comes to affixing so this will help me in saving even more meseta. I also completely forgot boost week is ongoing so I picked a good time to get around to this.

[TehCubey]

Actually I made a rather obvious mistake - if you switch steps 1 and 2 around, then step 2 (the new step 1) won't need a soul receptor because you are only trying to affix a fever with a 100% success rate anyway. Saves you on a single soul receptor, which isn't a lot but it can add up. I wrote this while rather tired so you'll have to excuse me.

By "junk" I mean easy to affix abilities that are useless and have 100% affix rate, but I assume you already knew that.