Anyone keen to summarise EP4's storyline for a return player?

[Altrius Véurr]

Well, I had heard many, many things about Episode 4, and so far, the negative feedback in regards to this is making me hesitate to read and watch the Story Board Quests like what I usually did for Episode 1-3. Is the storyline worth the couple of hours required for me to finish reading and watching, or should I just fast-forward everything and concentrate on the quest? I had just finished Episode 4-1, and I can say that so far, the focus on Earth rather than on ARKS is turning me off.

Like, where is Afin (PC's first partner and who I believed to be one of PC's closest friends judging by the amount of time they spent together, and what PC had done for him and Eucrita), Echo and Zeno (PC's seniors and mentor/disciple, and one of the first to welcome the PC to ARKS), I can get why Kressida or Klotho did not receive a cutscene since they are mostly EXP and Meseta contractors, but what about Matoi?

My PC did not spent the majority of Episode 3 trying to save her life, or Episode 2 (going into the past and whatnot) to have her disappear without a single word. Her conversations with PC back in Episode 1-3 is generally around "I will always be there" and "I will always be waiting for you", so why is there barely any mention of Matoi? Admittedly, I heard that she will return in Episode 4-5, but I am wondering why is her status not known to the PC? Judging by the amount of conversations PC have with Philia (Matoi's official caretaker) about her health, shouldn't she be the first to be informed in regards to Matoi's status due to the 'next-of-kin system'? Does ARKS have a next-of-kin system?

[Altiea]

Well, I had heard many, many things about Episode 4, and so far, the negative feedback in regards to this is making me hesitate to read and watch the Story Board Quests like what I usually did for Episode 1-3. Is the storyline worth the couple of hours required for me to finish reading and watching, or should I just fast-forward everything and concentrate on the quest? I had just finished Episode 4-1, and I can say that so far, the focus on Earth rather than on ARKS is turning me off.

Like, where is Afin (PC's first partner and who I believed to be one of PC's closest friends judging by the amount of time they spent together, and what PC had done for him and Eucrita), Echo and Zeno (PC's seniors and mentor/disciple, and one of the first to welcome the PC to ARKS), I can get why Kressida or Klotho did not receive a cutscene since they are mostly EXP and Meseta contractors, but what about Matoi?

My PC did not spent the majority of Episode 3 trying to save her life, or Episode 2 (going into the past and whatnot) to have her disappear without a single word. Her conversations with PC back in Episode 1-3 is generally around "I will always be there" and "I will always be waiting for you", so why is there barely any mention of Matoi? Admittedly, I heard that she will return in Episode 4-5, but I am wondering why is her status not known to the PC? Judging by the amount of conversations PC have with Philia (Matoi's official caretaker) about her health, shouldn't she be the first to be informed in regards to Matoi's status due to the 'next-of-kin system'? Does ARKS have a next-of-kin system?

Unfortunately, EP4 spends a lot of time focusing on the Earth characters, which many view as a major fault of its story.

The short answer: EP4 is basically kind of a mess of anime tropes. It's... not horribly terrible, but it's nothing original or exciting to watch. There is an improved focus on dynamic cutscenes this time around, with more actual fight scenes (and 4-7, which I personally consider one of the best in-engine cutscenes in the game), which is nice, but there are also quite a few long exposition scenes that tend to slow things down a lot. It also has quite possibly the most disappointing endings I've ever seen (with a very flimsy excuse as to why Deus ESC-A never dies). Most of the story focus is on Earth, so if you were hoping for an expanded look on Oracle, tough break. Most of the old characters are also taken out of the picture; anyone returning was usually popular to some degree in the past. Afin, Eucreta, Fourier, Echo, Zeno, and Xiao, for example, didn't make the cut for EP4, but Xiao is slated to return for EP5. While popular characters like Lisa, Io, Katori, and Saga return in some cutscenes (and Lisa even gets a little story focus, to boot).

Oh, and if you're wondering where Matoi went, Phantasy Star Online 2: The Animation happened. At the end of the anime, Aika absorbed the essence of Dark Falz Apprentice to contain it. While you were asleep, it went out of control, and Matoi was forced to absorb it to save Aika, which sent Matoi into Cold Sleep for a spell. She comes back in... Chapter 4, I believe, and if you make it that far, you can get her Partner Card.

A little off topic, but I did enjoy EP4's actual Story Quests. The streamlined format they took definitely worked for the most part, as most Quests are condensed into short bursts of gameplay with some story in between. Most EP4 Story Quests can be finished in 5 to 10 minutes of actual gameplay, or 20 minutes if you include cutscenes (excluding 4-8, which can take up to a freaking hour if you don't skip cutscenes).

[Altrius Véurr]

Ah, thanks! I guess I'm skipping every cutscene that's Earth related that does not involve any ARKS character other than the PC and Xiera, and just playing the Story Quests.

[blkbox11]

I don't recommend going through EP4 at all if you're the type that believes it has no place in the game with the Earth stuff and are attached to EP 1~3 - that is, judging from the tone of your initial post. Or perhaps, yes, just fast forward through it and spare yourself the urge to rant about it, unlike some people around here.

[loafhero]

EP4's story is pretty bad and there are plenty of people here who think so but you should play EP4's Story solely for its new super streamlined Story Board which gives you the really good stuff like tri-boosts, star gems, decent early-level gear and Gold Bonus Quest keys much faster than the Matter Board. The Story Board just gives you the cutscenes and playable story missions without the need to go out and kill a specific enemy to eventually unlock the next cutscene or story mission. All you ever need to do to unlock a cutscene or mission is to simply watch cutscenes.

Most of the main story cutscenes have been translated but quite a few side cutscenes aren't (last I checked), so you can always go to this Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAx8N8-oeCkQzAZoW2Ll0-Q/videos) for subs. Just remember to turn the captions on.

If you want Matoi's EP4 partner card, you can get it by starting Chapter 6 in the Story and to watch cutscene [116-C]. Don't worry about any difficulty. Every EP4 story mission that isn't the final mission or the optional bonus boss at the end is really easy.

A few us suspect that the absence of old recurring characters is the result of the game not being able to secure the right voice actors in time so those recurring characters are either completely absent or take a suspiciously long time to appear again in the Story as a result.

[Great Pan]

A story of a generic schoolgirl trying to save the earth. That's all.

[TehCubey]

Here's a novel idea: play the game and judge whether you like ep4's plot or not by yourself. However it sounds like you already made up your mind without even experiencing it.

BTW Zeno and Echo are fucking terrible characters and I'm glad there's not a trace of them in ep 4. Hopefully ep 5 will follow suit.

[Meteor Weapon]

As how terrible as Zeno and Echo are, we don't really deal them with all the time in every chapter unlike EP4 earth characters.

[yoshiblue]

Poor Echo. Forced to have the worse character development in the game.

[TehCubey]

As how terrible as Zeno and Echo are, we don't really deal them with all the time in every chapter unlike EP4 earth characters.

True, that's Matoi's job.

[loafhero]

As how terrible as Zeno and Echo are, we don't really deal them with all the time in every chapter unlike EP4 earth characters.

Plus, they both get shoved into the background by EP3.

[sonisei]

pso2 story sucks :wacko:

[Altrius Véurr]

Here's a novel idea: play the game and judge whether you like ep4's plot or not by yourself. However it sounds like you already made up your mind without even experiencing it.

BTW Zeno and Echo are fucking terrible characters and I'm glad there's not a trace of them in ep 4. Hopefully ep 5 will follow suit.

Actually I did, I'm currently at Episode 4-3, nearly 4, and what I do not actually understand is why are there cutscenes (as in plural) dedicated to their shopping trip/bathing time? Why are there cutscenes involved in a weird hyperactive girl (who seems to be as straight as rainbows when it come to Hitsugi) telling us all about ARKS? Is that really important to us? I mean, don't Xiera check all the cutscenes and eke out what is important and what is not before making us go through this torture? Why are our PC peeking on something that is considered private (especially since one of my PC is a male)? The only bright side in all this is Quna (who have grown more comfortable and relaxed, enough so to actually outright tease us in front of strangers), and Io (who, did the same as Quna, but in a more respectful way I think), maybe Pietro (for all his large ham nature).

EDIT: Admittedly, PC's entrance is rather cool, and the way PC curb stomped a boy (because with all his tantrums and holier-than-thou nature, he does not seem to be anything more than a spoilt rich kid to me), who is playing at being soldiers, compared to any ARKS operatives (even the newbies and cadets) who are really soldiers or soldiers-in-training who fights humongous monsters that can kill with a swipe or two really helps to smack the realism that no matter how gifted or 'chosen' they are, normal humans who have not seriously fought in a single day is hardly anything compared to a true warrior of the battlefield (I actually think that even Echo can easily defeat him, she did train under Maria, and was hinted by Luther to have potential, but is simply unable to utilise it well, which I think is due to her self-esteem issues back then, and general dependence on Zeno)..

[Altiea]

Poor Echo. Forced to have the worse character development in the game.

I believe that the EP3 Materials Collection's dev interview explicitly stated something to the tune of "Echo is literally a walking plot device, and nothing more".

[yoshiblue]

And it drives me crazy. Not too crazy, but enough to always bug me.

[loafhero]

I believe that the EP3 Materials Collection's dev interview explicitly stated something to the tune of "Echo is literally a walking plot device, and nothing more".

At least their honest.

[blkbox11]

Actually I did, I'm currently at Episode 4-3, nearly 4, and what I do not actually understand is why are there cutscenes (as in plural) dedicated to their shopping trip/bathing time? Why are there cutscenes involved in a weird hyperactive girl (who seems to be as straight as rainbows when it come to Hitsugi) telling us all about ARKS? Is that really important to us? I mean, don't Xiera check all the cutscenes and eke out what is important and what is not before making us go through this torture? Why are our PC peeking on something that is considered private (especially since one of my PC is a male)?

Episode 4 was made with people new to PSO in mind, which is something SEGA had to consider for the game's longevity. That's why you can skip straight to it instead of having to go through EP1-3 first, and I believe new players will start in EP4 by default. This is pretty much the tone of Episode 4 as a whole, and is even present in its content: especially the Summoner class, which is one of the easiest classes to use.

For more on 'why': the average Japanese gamer is more likely to be drawn in by highschool shenanigans, fanservice, slice-of-life and many of the things deemed 'unnecessary' by people here than a space story that is already established. It's clearly a simpler tale made with the intention of easing people into the sci-fi parts of the game rather than something to satisfy veterans - that seems to be EP5's job.

At the same time, I think there is nothing wrong with EP4's approach, because it keeps the game going. I personally enjoyed it and hope they take crazier turns with the story.

[oratank]

I believe that the EP3 Materials Collection's dev interview explicitly stated something to the tune of "Echo is literally a walking plot device, and nothing more".

still in abyss code echo doesn't effect by it maria also know that echo isn't normal.hope it will explain in ep5. Alma clone/granddaughter maybe :P

[Altiea]

still in abyss code echo doesn't effect by it maria also know that echo isn't normal.hope it will explain in ep5. Alma clone/granddaughter maybe :P

I thought they said that Echo was immune to its effects due to sheer willpower. Which is a pretty terrible way of handwaving it.

[loafhero]

Through Google translate and my hazy memory of the last time I used "Talk" on Zeno prior to starting EP3, Zeno reveals that he used Abyss on Echo to negate Regius's Abyss order. Not sure if this is really true but it sure as hell is a better explanation than Echo resisting it with willpower. Echo is one of the most spineless and pitiful NPCs to bring around with you through a partner card. Unlike with Afin whose EP3 partner card updates his dialogue to come off as less whiny and more confident, Echo's EP3 partner card still has her dialogue coming off as whiny and pitiful.

I also remember in the EP3 Material that the devs believed that Echo's low popularity is due to her being "taken" which some of us here called out as bullshit by pointing out how Ulc ranked really high in the polls despite being obviously Theodore's long-term girlfriend. No SEGA, we couldn't care less if Echo is someone's sloppy seconds. If she's an underdeveloped, useless, dumb, and incapable of self-dependency, of course no one's gonna like her (yet she somehow ranked higher in the polls than Sara....).

[Altrius Véurr]

Through Google translate and my hazy memory of the last time I used "Talk" on Zeno prior to starting EP3, Zeno reveals that he used Abyss on Echo to negate Regius's Abyss order. Not sure if this is really true but it sure as hell is a better explanation than Echo resisting it with willpower. Echo is one of the most spineless and pitiful NPCs to bring around with you through a partner card. Unlike with Afin whose EP3 partner card updates his dialogue to come off as less whiny and more confident, Echo's EP3 partner card still has her dialogue coming off as whiny and pitiful.

I also remember in the EP3 Material that the devs believed that Echo's low popularity is due to her being "taken" which some of us here called out as bullshit by pointing out how Ulc ranked really high in the polls despite being obviously Theodore's long-term girlfriend. No SEGA, we couldn't care less if Echo is someone's sloppy seconds. If she's an underdeveloped, useless, dumb, and incapable of self-dependency, of course no one's gonna like her (yet she somehow ranked higher in the polls than Sara....).


Speaking of Ulc and Theodore, is there a particular reason why they are now top-of-the-chain? I can get why Ulc is chosen, for her neutrality and desire to change ARKS's for the better, but Theodore? Mr My-Girlfriend-Died-So-I'm-Going-To-Destroy-Everything? I may find Echo's development to be rather...stunted in a sense but at least she have the mind to not follow a mysterious guy preaching about Powers-Beyond-One-Can-Imagine, and neither did she actually went off to become a psychotic idiot. Doesn't Theodore find it weird that PC, the guy who knew Ulc and who he knew (personally as his - Theodore's - confidante) is on guard when Luther is around?

Honestly, from what I had seen in Episode 3, Theodore's main development is 'guilt, and to make things better for everyone but most especially Ulc', a guy who could easily slip into insanity and near the point of no return is not someone I would believe to be a good leader, and since he is second-in-command to Ulc (nepotism?), one must wonder what would happen if Ulc is really killed, and the chains of command fall onto him, would he have the entire ARKS mobilised for revenge? I really wonder if other ARKS would willingly accept his lead, after all, everything that is going on back then was revealed under the orders of Xiao for a open organisation. Though the fact that Ulc does not have any experience in administrative affairs is making me wonder what is Xiao thinking of?

[loafhero]

Theo is just Ulc's secretary. I doubt they'll give command to a secretary. Theo was shown to have good secretarial skills during EP3 as he helped to organize Ulc's work schedule and helped to remind her of the next task she's required to do. This was the only setup to him becoming Ulc's secretary in EP4.

If he does go crazy again, there's always us to kick his ass again. Would love for an updated Theodore boss fight.

Ulc was seen being coached by Xiao in EP3's special chapter (MB 3-EX) who helped her study all she needs to know to be a decent Commander. Prior to that, she's shown to be surprisingly politically savvy but I can't recall which cutscene that was. This is the only indication we have of her experience as a CiC but I honestly feel it would have been better if we're actually shown a little more of how she functions as a Commander instead of just telling us that she might be a good Commander.

[IchijinKali]

For Ulc she more or less gave Xiao quite the surprise in her demeanor after learning that she was already declared dead when shot down despite still being in radio contact and requesting for help. Instead of being a Debby Downer throughout the rest of the mission she suddenly up and 'got over it'. Gaining Xiao's interest when she declared she was going to change ARKs from the inside. As loaf explained she got the training she needed to be a competent leader, but Xiao apparently still hasn't taught her to tone that ego of hers down or maybe he encouraged it.

Xiera's series of 'HIGH' CASTs are 'modeled' after Ulc. You learn that little tidbit in a scene you can quite easily associate to a 'fan-service' filler episode of an anime.

[yoshiblue]

I also remember in the EP3 Material that the devs believed that Echo's low popularity is due to her being "taken" which some of us here called out as bullshit by pointing out how Ulc ranked really high in the polls despite being obviously Theodore's long-term girlfriend. No SEGA, we couldn't care less if Echo is someone's sloppy seconds. If she's an underdeveloped, useless, dumb, and incapable of self-dependency, of course no one's gonna like her (yet she somehow ranked higher in the polls than Sara....).

Obviously taken by Xiao. :wacko:
Or the grey color scheme.

[Altrius Véurr]

Theo is just Ulc's secretary. I doubt they'll give command to a secretary. Theo was shown to have good secretarial skills during EP3 as he helped to organize Ulc's work schedule and helped to remind her of the next task she's required to do. This was the only setup to him becoming Ulc's secretary in EP4.

If he does go crazy again, there's always us to kick his ass again. Would love for an updated Theodore boss fight.

Ulc was seen being coached by Xiao in EP3's special chapter (MB 3-EX) who helped her study all she needs to know to be a decent Commander. Prior to that, she's shown to be surprisingly politically savvy but I can't recall which cutscene that was. This is the only indication we have of her experience as a CiC but I honestly feel it would have been better if we're actually shown a little more of how she functions as a Commander instead of just telling us that she might be a good Commander.

Keyword is might I guess, Luther may not be well-liked by the in-verse ARKS, but no one can deny that when he was around, anyone who tried to enter the organisation is quickly rooted out, his magnificent plans that was only foiled because of our PC's existence, and his centuries-worth of manipulating ARKS. I understand that Ulc is still young and somewhat inexperienced, but really, they have a bonafide assassin capable of bypassing any form of security (barring PC's ability to track and sense photons) and they did not even think about sending her down to assassinate someone (or to be precise, she have the Six Pillars as her aides, can't she think of something else) or to hack into YMT's database (I assume that Hagith's identity is known to ARKS by that point) to find out more about Mother Cluster and/or Earth Guide if they are going for the non-aggressive pact? Really? Unless they are trying to ensure Quna doesn't overwork herself due to the stress of the Mai Blades, if so, they could always do something like peek (sorry, information gathering) on YMT's operations and whatnot like what they did with the Earthlings.

By then, my favourite members in the executive committee is ranked as below, Casra, Casra, Casra, Quna, Huey (for all his large ham attitude, he is a better partner than both Hitsugi and her older brother in the fight against Phaleg), Claris Claes (because she dissed Hitsugi and proved herself to be capable of character development), Sara (because she is Sara, and due to her interactions with Claris Claes and Xiao), I can't say for the others, because Sega apparently, did not see the need to let us have a cutscene with them in the weeks (or months since PC's awakening), one would think that the return of ARKS's most famous operative of the generation would garner some interest) - because I find all his paranoid behaviour to be understandable and wonder why does my PC's dialogue doesn't have a third option other than 'this is too much' and 'it's not necessary to ask' like say, 'it's fine, I get what you are saying, but they do not know much about anything other than the bare surface, and therefore, utterly useless even if you interrogate them'.

Halfway (nearly to the end, I'm glad I'm on holiday) through the story, I'm either fast-forwarding the scenes related to Earth and cliche school anime cutscenes, or wondering what in the world is wrong with the ARKS's management team (both in-verse and outside). Organisational politics isn't really that hard to understand is it??? Plus, if they can come with with things like Death Squad, or Time-Travel cliches that ties everything up nicely in the end, I wonder why can't the ARKS in-verse be paranoid for once and search everything they can on Earth Guide, because a kind, benevolent for centuries organisation can't be all that bad, no it can't - don't they learn anything from the first few Episodes?

However seeing that Episode 4 is pretty much done and over with, I'll just hope that episode 5 will be better.

[Altiea]

However seeing that Episode 4 is pretty much done and over with, I'll just hope that episode 5 will be better.

That depends; do you like a medieval fantasy world filled with AU versions of currently existing Oracle characters better than a generic anime high school plot?

[loafhero]

I once asked myself as to why Quna wasn't sent to do any spy work on Earth but back in EP1-3, its repeatedly made clear to Player that Quna is actually a pretty lousy assassin. In EP1 (Quna's story arc), she says that she would have been disposed of had it not been for her pretty face and singing voice. Hadred's (Quna's adopted little dragon bro) suicidal rampage against ARKS started exactly because he found out that they tried to dispose of her. That's right, her suckiness as an assassin kickstarted the plot of EP1's Quna arc. In Quna's first cutscene in EP3, Casra blatantly tells her that she sucks as an assassin so she shouldn't be in any rush to return to doing any assassin work and should stick to idol work for now. Quna (despite being pissed) does not deny it.

If you've seen the anime, a character named Aika (who works in the same division as Quna and Casra) was sent to do undercover work on Earth but she's shown to be really terrible at spy work too.


Obviously taken by Xiao. :wacko:
Or the grey color scheme.

Now that I think about it, her grey and black color scheme is pretty depressing to look at.

[Altrius Véurr]

That depends; do you like a medieval fantasy world filled with AU versions of currently existing Oracle characters better than a generic anime high school plot?

Better that than a generic anime high school plot, at least with an AU of an existing Oracle, they would be able to touch on (even a little) about Oracle's history. At least, there's what I'm hoping, plus the design for Tokyo and Las Vegas is turning me off, its...well...simply put, rather bright and ostentatious and nowhere like what I had seen its real-life counterpart as. Medieval with its brown (and maybe green) scheme might be better than ostentatious, and would fit in with the usual Planets (Naberius, Vopar, Desert) and so on since it wouldn't look...fake like Tokyo and Las Vegas.


I once asked myself as to why Quna wasn't sent to do any spy work on Earth but back in EP1-3, its repeatedly made clear to Player that Quna is actually a pretty lousy assassin. In EP1 (Quna's story arc), she says that she would have been disposed of had it not been for her pretty face and singing voice. Hadred's (Quna's adopted little dragon bro) suicidal rampage against ARKS started exactly because he found out that they tried to dispose of her. That's right, her suckiness as an assassin kickstarted the plot of EP1's Quna arc. In Quna's first cutscene in EP3, Casra blatantly tells her that she sucks as an assassin so she shouldn't be in any rush to return to doing any assassin work and should stick to idol work for now. Quna (despite being pissed) does not deny it.

If you've seen the anime, a character named Aika (who works in the same division as Quna and Casra) was sent to do undercover work on Earth but she's shown to be really terrible at spy work too.


Better Quna than Aika, and Quna might be bad at the whole assassination thing, but one cannot deny that she is skilled when it comes to gathering information, EP 2-5 had proven it (though she did receive a bit of help from the information sisters), and all she have to do is simply turn on Mai Blades, sneak into YMT or somewhere, steal all the data, and disappear. And is it just me, or am I the only one that dislike Aika? Basic Skills Test, really? When she herself is so hopeless when it comes to a battlefield than even a new non-ARKS operative fights better than her? At least Quna knows how to fight, better than she does, while not the best, is hardly the worst, after all, one does not assassinate or kill artificial Dragonkin creations without gaining some semblance of fighting skill.

[Altiea]

Better Quna than Aika, and Quna might be bad at the whole assassination thing, but one cannot deny that she is skilled when it comes to gathering information, EP 2-5 had proven it (though she did receive a bit of help from the information sisters), and all she have to do is simply turn on Mai Blades, sneak into YMT or somewhere, steal all the data, and disappear. And is it just me, or am I the only one that dislike Aika? Basic Skills Test, really? When she herself is so hopeless when it comes to a battlefield than even a new non-ARKS operative fights better than her? At least Quna knows how to fight, better than she does, while not the best, is hardly the worst, after all, one does not assassinate or kill artificial Dragonkin creations without gaining some semblance of fighting skill.

Some people prefer to think of Aika' s COs as more of "testing" the player. She has a decent amount of competency in battle (she did go toe-to-toe with Dark Falz Apprentice and wield a Genesis Weapon for a time), just not to like, Quna's level or something. She also apparently claims to have cleared all the XQs and knows how to use Compound Techniques.

[pkemr4]

bland and cliche, if you watch enough anime you already know whats going to happen and how it ends.

[loafhero]

Better Quna than Aika, and Quna might be bad at the whole assassination thing, but one cannot deny that she is skilled when it comes to gathering information, EP 2-5 had proven it (though she did receive a bit of help from the information sisters), and all she have to do is simply turn on Mai Blades, sneak into YMT or somewhere, steal all the data, and disappear. And is it just me, or am I the only one that dislike Aika? Basic Skills Test, really? When she herself is so hopeless when it comes to a battlefield than even a new non-ARKS operative fights better than her? At least Quna knows how to fight, better than she does, while not the best, is hardly the worst, after all, one does not assassinate or kill artificial Dragonkin creations without gaining some semblance of fighting skill.

True. While her undercover skills leave much to be desired (yeah, V-shape bangs covering her forehead isn't gonna do much when she has fans who recognize her face), she is shown to be consistently good at gathering intel. Funny enough, I think Quna said in EP1 that she makes use of her idol mode more instead of her assassin mode to get intel as a lot of her targets tend to blurt out sensitive info without much thought whenever their talking to THE Quna.

And it is true that the anime does show that while Quna may not be among the "high tier" characters of PSO2, she is at least a better fighter (not referring to her class) than Aika. My interpretation as to why Aika is rather weak despite having claimed to have completed every quest and mastered every Tech class is because the anime wanted to make Matoi and Player look more amazing in comparison. While Aika struggles to kill just ONE Abberation Darker, Matoi casually kills off groups of them without ever looking serious.

The power ranking for the Council members goes like this (from my observation):

Casra<Quna<Zeno<Huey<Claris Claes III<Maria=Regius

[Sirius-91]

True. While her undercover skills leave much to be desired (yeah, V-shape bangs covering her forehead isn't gonna do much when she has fans who recognize her face), she is shown to be consistently good at gathering intel. Funny enough, I think Quna said in EP1 that she makes use of her idol mode more instead of her assassin mode to get intel as a lot of her targets tend to blurt out sensitive info without much thought whenever their talking to THE Quna.

And it is true that the anime does show that while Quna may not be among the "high tier" characters of PSO2, she is at least a better fighter (not referring to her class) than Aika. My interpretation as to why Aika is rather weak despite having claimed to have completed every quest and mastered every Tech class is because the anime wanted to make Matoi and Player look more amazing in comparison. While Aika struggles to kill just ONE Abberation Darker, Matoi casually kills off groups of them without ever looking serious.

The power ranking for the Council members goes like this (from my observation):

Casra<Quna<Zeno<Huey<Claris Claes III<Maria=Regius

Huey, Maria and now Zeno were part of the "balancers" to prevent the 3 heroes from going power hungry.

Quna doesn't like to to use Mai too much due to the fact it slowly drains her vitality. And she uses her idol mode to stand out, so people like Luther, wouldn't be able to get rid of her so easily.

On the subject of Matoi; when Aratron and Ophiel break into the ARKS Ship as a distraction for Mother and Kohri, they note that only 2 people can resist the limiter that affects all ARKS, aside from the council. Those being the Player Character and Matoi,

Don't forget about the purification process you and matoi went through from the final stages of ep3, you never lost the power that you got from defeating the Profound Darkness. As explained by the previous episodes, that you do absorb the photons of things you kill, thus enhancing your strength,

[Altiea]

Funny thing, Mother Cluster is probably more interesting than the actual "good guys". Mother and Aratron managed to top the popularity polls last year.

[loafhero]

Funny thing, Mother Cluster is probably more interesting than the actual "good guys". Mother and Aratron managed to top the popularity polls last year.

Yup. Mother and Aratron actually had personality, depth and development. That they managed to show all of this despite only having 3 chapters worth of story screen time yet still topping the polls is pretty impressive. Also impressive is that their both old people.

There's Phaleg but her excitement factor (from a story standpoint) kinda wears off pretty quickly. Sure, she's strong and cool and seeing her humiliate Hitsugi in her debut was a joy to behold but she's also just as bland as the "good guys" and the bad guys not named Mother or Aratron. She never shows any other emotion, never actually struggles in doing anything, we don't really know who or what she really is and doesn't actually contribute to the plot in a meaningful way (saving the rest of Mother Cluster was pointless because not only does Ardem still succeed in summoning Deus anyway, they don't actually help you at all during the Deus fight nor are they even around for Ardem and Mother's final moments despite being far more deserving of it). She's just there to be cool and offer a little fanservice.

Her bonus boss fight is pretty rad, though but that too is pretty disappointing from a story standpoint because despite its difficulty, its not actually treated with enough seriousness. The Player isn't even completely motivated to duel Phaleg. He/She is just doing so to get Phaleg to stop harassing his/her friends with repeated comm calls (somehow, ARKS doesn't have a "ban this person" feature). We don't learn anything about Phaleg and the Player clearly doesn't want anything to do with her any more.

[blkbox11]

Keyword is might I guess, Luther may not be well-liked by the in-verse ARKS, but no one can deny that when he was around, anyone who tried to enter the organisation is quickly rooted out, his magnificent plans that was only foiled because of our PC's existence, and his centuries-worth of manipulating ARKS. I understand that Ulc is still young and somewhat inexperienced, but really, they have a bonafide assassin capable of bypassing any form of security (barring PC's ability to track and sense photons) and they did not even think about sending her down to assassinate someone (or to be precise, she have the Six Pillars as her aides, can't she think of something else) or to hack into YMT's database (I assume that Hagith's identity is known to ARKS by that point) to find out more about Mother Cluster and/or Earth Guide if they are going for the non-aggressive pact? Really? Unless they are trying to ensure Quna doesn't overwork herself due to the stress of the Mai Blades, if so, they could always do something like peek (sorry, information gathering) on YMT's operations and whatnot like what they did with the Earthlings.

By then, my favourite members in the executive committee is ranked as below, Casra, Casra, Casra, Quna, Huey (for all his large ham attitude, he is a better partner than both Hitsugi and her older brother in the fight against Phaleg), Claris Claes (because she dissed Hitsugi and proved herself to be capable of character development), Sara (because she is Sara, and due to her interactions with Claris Claes and Xiao), I can't say for the others, because Sega apparently, did not see the need to let us have a cutscene with them in the weeks (or months since PC's awakening), one would think that the return of ARKS's most famous operative of the generation would garner some interest) - because I find all his paranoid behaviour to be understandable and wonder why does my PC's dialogue doesn't have a third option other than 'this is too much' and 'it's not necessary to ask' like say, 'it's fine, I get what you are saying, but they do not know much about anything other than the bare surface, and therefore, utterly useless even if you interrogate them'.

Halfway (nearly to the end, I'm glad I'm on holiday) through the story, I'm either fast-forwarding the scenes related to Earth and cliche school anime cutscenes, or wondering what in the world is wrong with the ARKS's management team (both in-verse and outside). Organisational politics isn't really that hard to understand is it??? Plus, if they can come with with things like Death Squad, or Time-Travel cliches that ties everything up nicely in the end, I wonder why can't the ARKS in-verse be paranoid for once and search everything they can on Earth Guide, because a kind, benevolent for centuries organisation can't be all that bad, no it can't - don't they learn anything from the first few Episodes?

However seeing that Episode 4 is pretty much done and over with, I'll just hope that episode 5 will be better.

With this level of expectation from an online game's story, I'm pretty sure even Episode 5 won't be up to your standards.

[Meteor Weapon]

Xierra's new look in ep5 was enough to make me cringe...

[Altrius Véurr]

Don't forget about the purification process you and matoi went through from the final stages of ep3, you never lost the power that you got from defeating the Profound Darkness. As explained by the previous episodes, that you do absorb the photons of things you kill, thus enhancing your strength

Wait a second, I thought that the PC and Matoi that they are only able to absorb Darker particles, something about their immune system getting rid of the Darker particles, though by Episode 3, PC and Matoi killed more than their body can handle, thus, leading to Profound Darkness and their subsequent cyrostasis sleep. But does it actually enhances their strength?


With this level of expectation from an online game's story, I'm pretty sure even Episode 5 won't be up to your standards.

I don't think my expectations is that high though, isn't what I had just said basically taking snippets of story line from previous Episodes (1-3) to compare them with Episode 4? After all, all I had said was done by either Quna or the Council (assasination of Dragonkin, intel gathering by Quna, not to mention by Sara for Xiao) back in the previous Episodes, they can simply reuse it while at the same time, rebuild it to make it work with Episode 4. Plus, isn't most of the stuff common sense? I know for a fact that if a friend of mine (particularly if he or she is my benefactor) woke up from the hospital, I will definitely find a way to visit him/her as soon as possible, it's fine if it was only for a while, but I will definitely want to see him/her. For Casra's point, isn't it just basic to find out everything about an organisation you intend to work with, to find out whether or not they are benevolent or malicious? After all, one cannot simply trust what is said on the surface, and I don't think that any kid from the 21st century would be willing to trust someone that easily - especially outsiders connected to the intruders in the ARKS ship, there would be at least some form of hostile reaction, though I am thinking that PC's involvement in this affair is making the more hostile ARKS stay their hand.

[loafhero]

Xierra's new look in ep5 was enough to make me cringe...

Good thing she's tiny!

[Kondibon]

Good thing she's tiny!Yeah, so tiny. She could fit in so many places...
http://i.imgur.com/pZce09l.gif

[Kondibon]

This is the era of Japan's entertainment industry that we're in. Even products made from cookie cutters will receive enough monetary support to thrive. To do something different is to take a risk, and they don't like taking risks. Stick to what the focus group of those with disposable income will most mindlessly throw their money at.
New ideas or fixing shitty ideas are generally not welcome, even if there are success stories of products that did so. I really hope they grow out of this phase soon.This is definately not just a japanese thing.

[loafhero]

Yeah, so tiny. She could fit in so many places...
http://i.imgur.com/pZce09l.gif

I was thinking of a Xierra Mag, you perv!


There's MMOs with good stories. There's MMOs with better stories than single-player story-driven games. There's MMOs with better stories than novels.

Best example from a Japanese MMO would be Final Fantasy XIV. The recent reviews for its latest expansion, particularly the story, have been very positive from both Western and JP players. Some have even gone on to say its story is even better than most single player Final Fantasy games.

[Kondibon]

I was thinking of a Xierra Mag, you perv!
Tags

? Minigirl
? Size_Difference
? Yuri

[blkbox11]

I don't think my expectations is that high though, isn't what I had just said basically taking snippets of story line from previous Episodes (1-3) to compare them with Episode 4? After all, all I had said was done by either Quna or the Council (assasination of Dragonkin, intel gathering by Quna, not to mention by Sara for Xiao) back in the previous Episodes, they can simply reuse it while at the same time, rebuild it to make it work with Episode 4. Plus, isn't most of the stuff common sense? I know for a fact that if a friend of mine (particularly if he or she is my benefactor) woke up from the hospital, I will definitely find a way to visit him/her as soon as possible, it's fine if it was only for a while, but I will definitely want to see him/her. For Casra's point, isn't it just basic to find out everything about an organisation you intend to work with, to find out whether or not they are benevolent or malicious? After all, one cannot simply trust what is said on the surface, and I don't think that any kid from the 21st century would be willing to trust someone that easily - especially outsiders connected to the intruders in the ARKS ship, there would be at least some form of hostile reaction, though I am thinking that PC's involvement in this affair is making the more hostile ARKS stay their hand.

All valid points in-universe, someone else presented the same argument before. But what I meant was the meta reason behind all of that which I mentioned in the response before my last. The story obviously had to be greatly simplified to draw in newcomers to the franchise, and Episode 4's design itself is meant for new people. Some sacrifices obviously had to be made, like character appearances and so on, even suspension of disbelief for the veterans.

Could they have done better given the circumstances? Yes. But what came out worked for the purpose they intended. That being said, I do think that level of expectation is too high.


Videogames are not a valid medium for art or storytelling. You heard it here first, folks.

There's MMOs with good stories. There's MMOs with better stories than single-player story-driven games. There's MMOs with better stories than novels. Don't set your standards for something so low as to be satisfied with garbage. Always want for improvement.

The passionate dislike that people hold for aspects of this game (especially the story) comes from a place of love. We want to see them do better, not sink into the sea of monotony.

I don't really see how that first line is a valid leadup into the rest of your response there, because I never said such a thing.

There are many videogames with good stories and art, but most of those are single player games - reason being that they are developed for your experience alone. Online games however, can do completely fine with a vague background and little in the way of storytelling, because you are meant to play them with others as your primary form of interaction outside of shop NPCs. There are those with good stories, yes, but I never saw PSO2 as one of them, nor do I expect it to be, and I feel that people who do and feel entitled to it have their faith misplaced.

Moreover, PSO2's very design allows you to play through it while barely touching the story at all, so I find that comparing it to something like FFXIV and demanding something on par is too much. This game feels more like a faster Monster Hunter with a story as a side-dish - you don't need to know why you're taking on that giant boss in that EQ, only whether you're capable of doing it or not and if it's worth the risk. Sure, it'd be fun to know, but at the end of the day there's no point to it because you're getting loot either way. I'm sure not many people, if any at all, spend their time replaying/rewatching EP1~3 for how great it is. Instead, most of the players are in the lobby looking for clothes on the visiphone, or gearing up to improve their DPS.

And yes, I get that people want a better story and love PSO2. But ranting and raving doesn't solve anything either, especially since the English community isn't SEGA's target audience, and you even acknowledged the issue about modern Japanese entertainment. It's unlikely to change anytime soon, and their eyes are not here at all.

[Altrius Véurr]

All valid points in-universe, someone else presented the same argument before. But what I meant was the meta reason behind all of that which I mentioned in the response before my last. The story obviously had to be greatly simplified to draw in newcomers to the franchise, and Episode 4's design itself is meant for new people. Some sacrifices obviously had to be made, like character appearances and so on, even suspension of disbelief for the veterans.

Could they have done better given the circumstances? Yes. But what came out worked for the purpose they intended. That being said, I do think that level of expectation is too high.

While I do understand the points that you are making, seeing that this Episode is supposed to be a simplified version of the previous Episodes, but I - to be honest - cannot find any reason why there are cutscenes related to their shopping trips, or even simple conversations between Xiera and Hitsugi and Aru, because I do not find the cutscenes (not all of course, some is relatively informative) necessary for story plot, and rather than moving the plot forward or adding more exposition to the story and character, all it does is make it look like a filler scene, scenes which could be put to better use like perhaps, elaborating on the NPCs's journeys in the two years the PC spent in stasis? I understand that it might be hard to get voice actors in for only a few sentences, but since they actually got Quna and Io's voice actors, even Katori, Saga and Pietro, I do not see why they could not use the cutscenes spent watching their shopping trips/bathtime (which actually takes more than a couple of minutes to finish) to delegate to the old characters, who would then elaborate on what the other characters are doing. Perhaps, Xiera could have just went through the cutscenes by herself, since it is part of her job description, and just request PC's aid for the more informative videos to help analysis any details she had found. Similar to how she have PC take the Earth kids for a tour while she was sorting out info given by Casra, she could have done the same for this instance, and allow PC to get back on track with his/her friends's and comrades lives, friends and comrades would fought for and beside him/her, rather than focusing on a weird high school kid with self-esteem issues and no definite life goals. I was actually wondering why there are options like "Hitsugi, I'm coming for you," "it's all thanks to Hitsugi" and whatnot from the PC, as if Sega is trying to place an importance on Hitsugi over the veteran ARKS like Matoi for one, Matoi, who just finished her rehab and was able to hold off two Mother Cluster Apostles versus Hitsugi, who received help from Aru to regain her strength, but was still too weak to fight Mother, and they have the option of "it's all thanks to Hitsugi"?

i understand that Sega's is pushing the game towards Japanese players, but to actively promote a new heroine, one weaker, more clingy and dependent on the PC's strength to deal with any problems, with cliche Tsundere-type character, and ignoring the former (and still official) heroine of PSO2, Matoi, one who actually have a will of her own, to protect and even sacrifice her own life for someone she cares for, to fighting beside someone despite having no memories of any battles, just on faith alone, and although she hesitated, was still able to take a life in a life-of-death situation when still suffering from amnesia (Claris Claes Clones), while she (Hitsugi) isn't? Though admittedly, they did give reasons why Matoi is unable to fight, and her and PC's duo against Falz Mother is cool (I still think that with just the two of them, they could have just destroyed her and save Aru, but seeing that they want Hitsugi to shine...), and I do like how they actually started to give out more cutscenes that are Oracle-related in the later parts (though not as much as I would like, but since you can't have everything...).

But yeah, ranting and raving doesn't do anything, but it is actually a good way to stir up other's creative juices, to find out different perspectives of how things would go, how the stories could be better. It is actually rather fun to read other people's self-made stories about their characters, because it makes it seem real, and it is also a form of entertainment for them, to find a way to make things better via complains, because somehow or other, anger always allow people to communicate better - adrenaline rush and all that. And what came out would be (not all of the time) legit complains, legit stories, excellent in-depth personality tests about the characters, it is always entertaining to see how people break down the character's personality, and rebuild it at the same time. It may be frustrating, and it may not do anything, but it is entertaining and is what makes debates and threads alive, because nothing would be interesting if you look at it in a clinical perspective.

And personally, I find ranting and raving about a story to be much better than simply sitting down and not saying anything, because as I mentioned before, it is always fun to read about others' interpretation of an event, and how they can think up of more materials (that I never thought of) as background that happens off-screen.

[loafhero]

I don't think there was ever any need for Matoi to get involved. Mother Cluster did such a great job destroying themselves with minimal input on the Player's part. Having Matoi to tag with Player more would have been overkill.

[Altrius Véurr]

Now that you mention it...That's....really true actually.

[blkbox11]

While I do understand the points that you are making, seeing that this Episode is supposed to be a simplified version of the previous Episodes, but I - to be honest - cannot find any reason why there are cutscenes related to their shopping trips, or even simple conversations between Xiera and Hitsugi and Aru, because I do not find the cutscenes (not all of course, some is relatively informative) necessary for story plot, and rather than moving the plot forward or adding more exposition to the story and character, all it does is make it look like a filler scene, scenes which could be put to better use like perhaps, elaborating on the NPCs's journeys in the two years the PC spent in stasis? I understand that it might be hard to get voice actors in for only a few sentences, but since they actually got Quna and Io's voice actors, even Katori, Saga and Pietro, I do not see why they could not use the cutscenes spent watching their shopping trips/bathtime (which actually takes more than a couple of minutes to finish) to delegate to the old characters, who would then elaborate on what the other characters are doing. Perhaps, Xiera could have just went through the cutscenes by herself, since it is part of her job description, and just request PC's aid for the more informative videos to help analysis any details she had found. Similar to how she have PC take the Earth kids for a tour while she was sorting out info given by Casra, she could have done the same for this instance, and allow PC to get back on track with his/her friends's and comrades lives, friends and comrades would fought for and beside him/her, rather than focusing on a weird high school kid with self-esteem issues and no definite life goals. I was actually wondering why there are options like "Hitsugi, I'm coming for you," "it's all thanks to Hitsugi" and whatnot from the PC, as if Sega is trying to place an importance on Hitsugi over the veteran ARKS like Matoi for one, Matoi, who just finished her rehab and was able to hold off two Mother Cluster Apostles versus Hitsugi, who received help from Aru to regain her strength, but was still too weak to fight Mother, and they have the option of "it's all thanks to Hitsugi"?

i understand that Sega's is pushing the game towards Japanese players, but to actively promote a new heroine, one weaker, more clingy and dependent on the PC's strength to deal with any problems, with cliche Tsundere-type character, and ignoring the former (and still official) heroine of PSO2, Matoi, one who actually have a will of her own, to protect and even sacrifice her own life for someone she cares for, to fighting beside someone despite having no memories of any battles, just on faith alone, and although she hesitated, was still able to take a life in a life-of-death situation when still suffering from amnesia (Claris Claes Clones), while she (Hitsugi) isn't? Though admittedly, they did give reasons why Matoi is unable to fight, and her and PC's duo against Falz Mother is cool (I still think that with just the two of them, they could have just destroyed her and save Aru, but seeing that they want Hitsugi to shine...), and I do like how they actually started to give out more cutscenes that are Oracle-related in the later parts (though not as much as I would like, but since you can't have everything...).

The kind of people in Japan who would spend a lot on this game, yet have no idea about the Phantasy Star universe are easier to draw in via those things people here deem unnecessary - I also mentioned this in one of my previous replies - as opposed to what people here would consider good story progressing scenes and development. There's also the fact that small talk is easier to get into for the average person compared to serious discussions, and helps with the process of easing in. Remember, a new player's expectations are not the same as that of a veteran player who has emotionally invested in the older characters and story.

Anyway, at this point both of us are starting to sound like broken records. I don't know if you'll be able to understand, and I apologize, because perhaps my explanations are not well-worded, but it's deeply rooted in anime-based media - that's why there are many anime that focus on fanservice, slice-of-life, highschool and so on, and why they still sell. This is similar to the reason why zombie-apocalypse/post-apocalypse settings and superheroes generally do well in the West.

On the subject of the new heroine and her qualities: Matoi has already been established through 3 episodes. They could have spent more time and effort to find methods of introducing her as the heroine to new people and have her be the star again, but must have thought it to be easier to get a schoolgirl from Japan as the heroine for the reasons stated above. Also, while (at least, from what I've noticed) PSO-W echoes a general fondness of Matoi, there are people out there who do not like her for equally good reasons - think of what these people thought in Episode 3. It would be along the lines of what you think of Hitsugi.

To be honest, I found Matoi's role rather forced myself by the time I reached Episode 3. So that's probably why I didn't mind Hitsugi as much; it was simply the same thing but with a different person, and played out in a somewhat less serious tone, maybe even a mocking one. To add, there were also far more interesting female characters in the previous Episodes, and I do wish I was given the choice of which one to be closer to, instead of being railroaded to one.


But yeah, ranting and raving doesn't do anything, but it is actually a good way to stir up other's creative juices, to find out different perspectives of how things would go, how the stories could be better. It is actually rather fun to read other people's self-made stories about their characters, because it makes it seem real, and it is also a form of entertainment for them, to find a way to make things better via complains, because somehow or other, anger always allow people to communicate better - adrenaline rush and all that. And what came out would be (not all of the time) legit complains, legit stories, excellent in-depth personality tests about the characters, it is always entertaining to see how people break down the character's personality, and rebuild it at the same time. It may be frustrating, and it may not do anything, but it is entertaining and is what makes debates and threads alive, because nothing would be interesting if you look at it in a clinical perspective.

And personally, I find ranting and raving about a story to be much better than simply sitting down and not saying anything, because as I mentioned before, it is always fun to read about others' interpretation of an event, and how they can think up of more materials (that I never thought of) as background that happens off-screen.

There is a large gap between ranting and raving endlessly and complete silence. When said discussions are civil, yes, it's completely fine. However, there is a point where it becomes excessive. Episode 4's flaws have been discussed more than enough times in the official story discussion thread, with people simply repeating their dislike of the same aspects nearly every time there was an Episode update. It's a lot like seeing the many, many videos of 'why Sword Art Online is bad' - each person is complaining about the same thing over and over, more or less, and there comes a point where there is nothing meaningful to add to the discussion.

[Meteor Weapon]

The cringiest thing I can remember is Hitsugi chasing Kohri alone and end up getting stabbed. How many times was she reminded that she's fucking inexperienced?

Also despite a short screentime Matoi was still top 3 and Hitsugi....lol i guess she's not liked very much.

[loafhero]

Also despite a short screentime Matoi was still top 3 and Hitsugi....lol i guess she's not liked very much.

I recall Hitsugi not even being in the Top 10 of the female popularity poll which is hilarious for the leading character of EP4. In fact, none of the "good guys" of EP4 made it into the Top 3. They all lost to the bad guys of EP4. Hagito ranked higher than Enga and Aru despite having disappeared from the plot after the Yamato battle and despite being treated as a joke by the protagonists.

[Vatallus]

Too bad they picked to make a PvC of Hitsugi for this episode.

[blkbox11]

Also despite a short screentime Matoi was still top 3 and Hitsugi....lol i guess she's not liked very much.


I recall Hitsugi not even being in the Top 10 of the female popularity poll which is hilarious for the leading character of EP4. In fact, none of the "good guys" of EP4 made it into the Top 3. They all lost to the bad guys of EP4. Hagito ranked higher than Enga and Aru despite having disappeared from the plot after the Yamato battle and despite being treated as a joke by the protagonists.

I just want to clarify this in case of a misunderstanding: I never said Hitsugi was a huge success and is popular outside of PSO-W, and that Matoi isn't. I mean, loaf even made a similar argument before using the same poll for some reason. What I am saying that there are people who dislike Matoi out there. I remember even when Episode 3's discussion was going on here, there was a person who wanted Matoi dead as much as loaf wanted Kohri dead. Perhaps that is in the archives somewhere.

Besides that, Hitsugi's performance also doesn't just take away the logic of why they chose to go with her as the heroine in the first place, which was what I was explaining to the returning person. People didn't take to her as the devs expected, but in terms of presentation to new players and whatnot, she was probably seen as a safer choice over an already established character with a long history.

[Meteor Weapon]

I think I've said this a lot but for me in EP1-3, we didn't get stuck with the same character throughout the entire episode in row. We focus on something else in the next chapter and then come back to it later, I have never felt any urgency of "lets get this shit doene already" but instead "I can't wait to know what happens next" in EP2-3. In EP4...there's just no variety and divergence like that and we're stuck with the whole same cast throughout the entire Episode which is, all I want is just to get this episode/story/whatever over with.

I think a lot more have dislike on Shitsugi than Matoi herself, I at least can feel neutral about Matoi because we aren't really focused and stuck on her alone(thank Xiao for that lol). The flaw of the story flow is a lot more obvious to me in EP4 than any other EP due to its focusness on a single story and characters but lack any good writing or any good memorable moments, not that Ep1-3 was a masterpiece but at least each episode has its different feel(Double's Inner Universe, I want an AQ or anything similar of it I really loved the atmosphere)

In EP4 it felt we're just going through the same same thing the entire story, well at least for me, the story quest maps are shit, even the final area as its just loop of the same area. The shit going on in Amduscia was never really look on to deeper, they said it's something to do with Ether and stuff but never even got into it in the same Episode. I think the only major complaint people have with EP1-3 was the matterboard tediousness.

I just hope EP5 doesnt do the same thing in EP4 focusing on a single story but im not getting my hopes up either, Xierra's fairy look already made me worried more than any other things that showed up in the trailer.

[Vatallus]

Couldn't even pick a cute one to be the fairy.

[loafhero]

Fairy Xierra's design is just hideous. I wouldn't have minded Fairy Xierra if the design wasn't so hard on the eyes with its disgusting color scheme. I would have preferred Fairy Xiao instead since we've spent enough time already hanging out with Xierra in EP4 while we just got Xiao back. Would've been a good opportunity to bring back Xiao's child form too while his sexy form is featured only back at Oracle. Plus, I find Xiao's voice to be far less grating than Xierra's and I've always been fond of Xiao's snarkiness. He could've been like Puck from Berserk.

[Meteor Weapon]

Xiao was a fun snarky character, Xierra is hyperactive cheerful optimistic positive boring character who worries over chest size for no reason, oh god please dont make Xierra complain about not having boobs as a fairy, that itself will cause me to lose faith on EP5 story credibility right from the beginning. Also remind me that EP4 has forced fanservice that is cringeworthy.

[loafhero]

I wouldn't have minded EP4's fan service at all if it was better integrated into the plot or if it wasn't so dragged out to such an unnecessary length. Xierra can have her breast size worries as part of her character but devoting resources into making one whole cutscene revolving around her breast woes was utterly dumb.

[blkbox11]

I think I've said this a lot but for me in EP1-3, we didn't get stuck with the same character throughout the entire episode in row. We focus on something else in the next chapter and then come back to it later, I have never felt any urgency of "lets get this shit doene already" but instead "I can't wait to know what happens next" in EP2-3. In EP4...there's just no variety and divergence like that and we're stuck with the whole same cast throughout the entire Episode which is, all I want is just to get this episode/story/whatever over with.

I think a lot more have dislike on Shitsugi than Matoi herself, I at least can feel neutral about Matoi because we aren't really focused and stuck on her alone(thank Xiao for that lol). The flaw of the story flow is a lot more obvious to me in EP4 than any other EP due to its focusness on a single story and characters but lack any good writing or any good memorable moments, not that Ep1-3 was a masterpiece but at least each episode has its different feel(Double's Inner Universe, I want an AQ or anything similar of it I really loved the atmosphere)

In EP4 it felt we're just going through the same same thing the entire story, well at least for me, the story quest maps are shit, even the final area as its just loop of the same area. The shit going on in Amduscia was never really look on to deeper, they said it's something to do with Ether and stuff but never even got into it in the same Episode. I think the only major complaint people have with EP1-3 was the matterboard tediousness.

I just hope EP5 doesnt do the same thing in EP4 focusing on a single story but im not getting my hopes up either, Xierra's fairy look already made me worried more than any other things that showed up in the trailer.

I found EP1~3 to be tedious not only in the matterboard sense, but in the amount of NPCs that were present. There were so many people you couldn't simply pick who to focus on. It was great whenever an interesting character was in the frame, but outside of that, there was a lot of fat that I saw as needing to be trimmed - which EP4 did. There are people who would have been nice to have return in EP4 but didn't make it, but most of the ones I was fond of made an appearance, so I had no complaints there.

And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up that 'many people like Matoi and dislike Hitsugi', it doesn't matter how many people dislike one and like the other - that was never the point, and it doesn't validate anything. It's just popular opinion. My point was that people who dislike Matoi (and maybe like Hitsugi as well) do exist, and that is all, because we are not one giant hivemind that can't think differently on a subject. This is not something where one party is in the right because there are more of them, and the other is wrong - merely a matter of individual taste. I believe SEGA did the right thing with Hitsugi too to try and draw in new players, because it does make sense to think that the average new person would be able to relate better to someone from Earth who is new to ARKS, instead of an already fleshed out veteran character.

On the other hand, it may not seem like Matoi is as forced as Hitsugi is at a glance, but remember, she was lurking in the background since the first Episode, and come Episode 3, she was the main focus of the story. The latter part of Episode 3 with her being turned evil showed just how important she is to the plot, and I suppose to me it felt like she was the engineered girlfriend character - that person meant to be admirable and near perfect so as to be your significant other in the story, who then becomes the princess you go and save. I never liked those kinds of characters, so seeing how silly and flawed Hitsugi (and her story) was in comparison, was a relief, even if she did go through the same things.

[Altrius Véurr]

There is a large gap between ranting and raving endlessly and complete silence. When said discussions are civil, yes, it's completely fine. However, there is a point where it becomes excessive. Episode 4's flaws have been discussed more than enough times in the official story discussion thread, with people simply repeating their dislike of the same aspects nearly every time there was an Episode update. It's a lot like seeing the many, many videos of 'why Sword Art Online is bad' - each person is complaining about the same thing over and over, more or less, and there comes a point where there is nothing meaningful to add to the discussion.

This is a point that I agree with you, too long I have read people write about the same thing, with no basis, no facts, no explanation, just simply a simple phrase of "because I don't like him/her". If properly explained, without vulgarities or whatnot, anything can be considered as a debate and/or civil discussion, if they find a way to put it by drawing from other sources, reinterpreting it and making it new, by all means, do it. After all, a discussion can never be one without any opposing party, and to outright telling someone to (insert vulgarity) off is most certainly not a good way to discuss anything, other than encouraging fisticuffs, which is not something that any debater or polite being that is worth a grain of salt does, after all, the pen is mightier than the sword. Which I supposed, is the reason why I am enjoying this discussion with you despite our opposing points.


Anyway, at this point both of us are starting to sound like broken records. I don't know if you'll be able to understand, and I apologize, because perhaps my explanations are not well-worded, but it's deeply rooted in anime-based media - that's why there are many anime that focus on fanservice, slice-of-life, highschool and so on, and why they still sell. This is similar to the reason why zombie-apocalypse/post-apocalypse settings and superheroes generally do well in the West.

And this is also the reason why the older generations is mumbling about the 'failure of youth' and whatnot. With how the news have been like lately, it is starting to make me wonder if humanity (generally speaking) is really progressing in a morally way like some sources claimed.


I just want to clarify this in case of a misunderstanding: I never said Hitsugi was a huge success and is popular outside of PSO-W, and that Matoi isn't. I mean, loaf even made a similar argument before using the same poll for some reason. What I am saying that there are people who dislike Matoi out there. I remember even when Episode 3's discussion was going on here, there was a person who wanted Matoi dead as much as loaf wanted Kohri dead. Perhaps that is in the archives somewhere.

Besides that, Hitsugi's performance also doesn't just take away the logic of why they chose to go with her as the heroine in the first place, which was what I was explaining to the returning person. People didn't take to her as the devs expected, but in terms of presentation to new players and whatnot, she was probably seen as a safer choice over an already established character with a long history.

That is quite true, though I am always wondering why people would so very easily say that they want someone(or a character) to die without any real basis barring their personal dislike for a character. I may not like Hitsugi, or am a fan of her character, but I would definitely not want her to die, for one, think of the people left behind, the repercussions and whatnot, although it would actually serve to make PSO2 darker and edgier (which, judging by the amount of cliches, is most likely not want the management team wanted).

[Meteor Weapon]

Well I don't know lol, I just see Matoi neutral but harbor a great dislike to Hitsugi. Yeah people who hate Matoi do exist I accept that. I'm just saying the problem I have with Hitsugi is EP4 kept shoving Hitsugi to us throughout the entire episode unlike Matoi. My neutrality to Matoi was also probably because my character is female and I don't feel like I'm being in a forced relationship with Matoi unless...Sega wants me to which I'll just politely deny if it is a choice, and Hitsugi being flawed to a fault it's cringeworthy for me. I can just rant all day but that's just pointless and doesn't add up anything. EP4 is over my hope is that EP5 doesn't repeat the same mistake EP4 did, but im not getting my hopes up either though.

[blkbox11]

Actually, my character is female too. Just couldn't shake that feeling of 'hey man, this character in the corner of the lobby is important' that SEGA was giving with Matoi. By late Episode 3 I was just facepalming at the whole rescue arc, where everyone was telling you how important Matoi is, and even Lisa of all people had a special blue-eyes mode to feel sad about it. I didn't want Matoi dead, of course, but I didn't develop an attachment to the character enough to feel immersed in the story.

And this last one is just me being petty, but there was also a bug with Matoi in EP1~2 where you would get locked in back-to-back cutscenes with her if you had not visited her after each Story Quest (for me, there were more important things to do at the time, like TACOs) and happened to approach her...I was actually trapped in that for nearly 20 minutes.

Anyway, I don't actually have high hopes that EP5 will be able to please those who liked 1~3 either. But with Alma's appearance and Xiao's and not!Luther's return, maybe there will be something for everyone this time.

[Meteor Weapon]

And this last one is just me being petty, but there was also a bug with Matoi in EP1~2 where you would get locked in back-to-back cutscenes with her if you had not visited her after each Story Quest (for me, there were more important things to do at the time, like TACOs) and happened to approach her...I was actually trapped in that for nearly 20 minutes.


Gotta agree getting cutscene locked with Matoi was bullcrap lol

[loafhero]

Kohri is the Jar Jar Binks of PSO2. She's the unfunny comic relief, with completely non-existent development, an extremely annoying nasally voice, always ruining the mood with poorly timed comments and had to be rescued a total of 3 times which could have been avoided if she didn't have such a low attention-span that makes people with actual ADHD look more attentive in comparison. I'd say she's even worse than Jar Jar because at least Jar Jar doesn't have a thing for little boys nor did Jar Jar ever betray his friends.

EP4's awful heroines just made Matoi look better in comparison.


and I don't feel like I'm being in a forced relationship with Matoi unless...Sega wants me to which I'll just politely deny if it is a choice

The Player is still friend-zoning Matoi and that doesn't look like its going to change any time soon.

[Altiea]

Kohri is the Jar Jar Binks of PSO2. She's the unfunny comic relief, with completely non-existent development, an extremely annoying nasally voice, always ruining the mood with poorly timed comments and had to be rescued a total of 3 times which could have been avoided if she didn't have such a low attention-span that makes people with actual ADHD look more attentive in comparison. I'd say she's even worse than Jar Jar because at least Jar Jar doesn't have a thing for little boys nor did Jar Jar ever betray his friends.

EP4's awful heroines just made Matoi look better in comparison.

Japan likes Kohri more than Hitsugi, though.

[Great Pan]

Loser best character in the game, period. Be it meme-wise or antagonist-wise.

[Meteor Weapon]

His motives and reaction on his absolute downfall was priceless and memorable. Centuries years old of plan wasted in a single moment.

[loafhero]

Japan likes Kohri more than Hitsugi, though.

Because cleavage and yandere.

[loafhero]

His motives and reaction on his absolute downfall was priceless and memorable. Centuries years old of plan wasted in a single moment.

Maria, Sara, Xiao and Quna had been planning to bring Luther down for years.

[Meteor Weapon]

Maria, Sara, Xiao and Quna had been planning to bring Luther down for years.

Pretty sure he noticed but he pretty much underestimated them. Regius, Maria, Casra and Quna knows too well they can't really do much as Luther had his eye on them all the time and hold the entire Oracle fleet as hostages. I think one thing he overlooked was Xiao's existence and he totally underestimated Xion thinking he absolutely understands Xion's nature after all those years.

Also was the whole weaponoid and beastloid thing under Luther's supervising or was without Luther's involvement?

[Altiea]

Also was the whole weaponoid and beastloid thing under Luther's supervising or was without Luther's involvement?

Luther's involvement in the story of es is pretty blurry; he's referred to offhand by Donovan at the end of ARKS Quests, but other than that it's never implied nor refuted whether he had anything to do with what happened (although it's stated that the Weaponoids were sort of an internal thing by EMA, so...). As it stands, we don't know where Trans-Enemies come from yet, but Season 2 is set to provide details about Trans-Enemies.

[Tymek]

What exactly is E.M.A. and Innocent Blue anyways?

[Meteor Weapon]

I guess PSO2ES story deals the with inside job and conspiracy within Oracle while PSO2 revolves around off world stories, tho I kinda wished the main game would make any story reference from ES. Weaponoids are pretty much nonexistent in the main game.

[blkbox11]

Gotta agree getting cutscene locked with Matoi was bullcrap lol

Not sure how many other people here now were around back then to experience that. It actually cost me an EQ run: I was already late and just happened to use a door that led to the one adjacent to her location, which at the time was linked to the shop area and not the casino, because the casino didn't exist yet.

The cutscene lock was sudden and surprised me so much that I only thought to alt+F4 about 20 seconds in. Before that I was just like 'wtf is going on?'

Of course, that was SEGA's fault and not Matoi's, though I can't help but associate her with that incident.

[Kiyumi]

You dont want a summary of EP4. You just want to bash the story. If you dont like it, press esc and skip everything.

Request to moderators to change the title of this thread to "Here's why I think EP4 story is stupid" to more accurately reflect its contents.

[Zanverse]

I've yet to see a detailed summary of EP4 so far in this thread.

[loafhero]

I've yet to see a detailed summary of EP4 so far in this thread.

Remembering the story in full detail is painful enough.


A story of a generic schoolgirl trying to save the earth. That's all.

This is pretty much all anyone ever needs as a summary for EP4.

[Zanverse]

Remembering the story in full detail is painful enough.

Man, you guys are so dramatic. Someone asks for a proper summary, give them a proper summary. The Episode was not even as bad as you drama queens put it out to be.

OP, if you really want details on EP4's story, since these guys on PSO-World want to go off on ranty tangents left and right instead, your best choice would be to go on PSO2 Swiki and try to decipher what Google Translate can give you. It'll do a much better job than anything you can get from here.

[loafhero]

Man, you guys are so dramatic. Someone asks for a proper summary, give them a proper summary. The Episode was not even as bad as you drama queens put it out to be.

Or how about YOU do it if you're complaining about it so much. Clearly, you've managed to sit through EP4's story without dying a little inside while most of us have been burned by how much of a complete turd EP4's story was and just want to move on with EP5 which looks mildly better than what EP4 offered.

[blkbox11]

The Episode was not even as bad as you drama queens put it out to be.

I was going to say to be careful, because that's what starts people on those dramatic, ranty tangents. But it seems I was too late.

On the bright side, it seems OP has already gone through EP4, skipping the parts he didn't like. So there's no longer any need for a summary.

[Meteor Weapon]

EP4 is bad in my opinion and already spoke my opinion why its sucks for me, tired of repeating myself. Maybe half or more people in here think so too but i dont even have statistic to even prove it. If people think EP4 was ok then....well then good for you and everyone who likes it. There's just no point in arguing anymore.

For us who thinks EP4 story is bad, we just hope future episode would be a lot better but...a lot of us who hate EP4 story kinda didn't expect much for sega improving PSO2's story.





Seriously Xierra's fairy form already made me freak out and fear for the worst. Not even notLuther's tease appearance could get rid of that fear.

[Zanverse]

Or how about YOU do it if you're complaining about it so much. Clearly, you've managed to sit through EP4's story without dying a little inside while most of us have been burned by how much of a complete turd EP4's story was and just want to move on with EP5 which looks mildly better than what EP4 offered.

Oh, I'd do it if I had the time to. I genuinely liked EP4. Not as much as the previous episodes, but I still liked it nonetheless. Yes, it had some parts of the story that were pretty garbage, and Hitsugi wasn't such a good main focus character, but whatever.

[Altiea]

I was going to open the thread with an actual summary, but I forgot most of the details of the story, and I realized I suck at summaries...

[Zipzo]

I haven't yet really made my way through the Ep4 story just the first few blocks and cutscenes and missions, and I think that my dislike for the pso2 story came probably a bit before Ep4, but the concept of Ep4 sort of...didn't help.

One of the things I loved about PSO (original) was that the story was full of mystique. Sure, you can call it lazy, and that they made it mysterious simply so they didn't have to bother elaborating on the concepts they used, but there was so much there to unpack. Following the message boxes to read rico's recordings, or the terminals to read the flower experiments, were just so interesting in the context. I'd dare say it was the perfect strategy for telling a narrative in an online game, because it sort of gives you the freedom to decide how much you care about the story. You decide if you want to know more, and you aren't worse off for not knowing, and to learn more, you have to seek out those message boxes, read them with an open mind, try to make your own conclusions.

It created a hotbed for theories, and that's really when a story is most fun, when you can sit and theorize about all the gritty details. That's what draws people in to shows like Game of Thrones, or LOST, or any other long over-arching twisty story show. People love the conversation, to make educated guesses, and be surprised when they're wrong, or proud of being right on their predictions.

Old PSO kinda felt that way. Dark Falz was much more mysterious, the narrative was very passive and thus gave the game a more immersive feeling of "I'm here on this mystery place and I can just figure out what I want to figure out". I dunno. Finding out that (SPOILER ALERT) Ruins was Pioneer 1(SPOILER END) was pretty cool, for example, near the point where you're finishing up the place and reaching the last boss. It just kind worked.

Anyway this high school anime trope stuff falls WAY off that apple tree, so naturally I sort of repulse at it given what I liked about the original PSO's story.

[Altiea]

I haven't yet really made my way through the Ep4 story just the first few blocks and cutscenes and missions, and I think that my dislike for the pso2 story came probably a bit before Ep4, but the concept of Ep4 sort of...didn't help.

One of the things I loved about PSO (original) was that the story was full of mystique. Sure, you can call it lazy, and that they made it mysterious simply so they didn't have to bother elaborating on the concepts they used, but there was so much there to unpack. Following the message boxes to read rico's recordings, or the terminals to read the flower experiments, were just so interesting in the context. I'd dare say it was the perfect strategy for telling a narrative in an online game, because it sort of gives you the freedom to decide how much you care about the story. You decide if you want to know more, and you aren't worse off for not knowing, and to learn more, you have to seek out those message boxes, read them with an open mind, try to make your own conclusions.

It created a hotbed for theories, and that's really when a story is most fun, when you can sit and theorize about all the gritty details. That's what draws people in to shows like Game of Thrones, or LOST, or any other long over-arching twisty story show. People love the conversation, to make educated guesses, and be surprised when they're wrong, or proud of being right on their predictions.

Old PSO kinda felt that way. Dark Falz was much more mysterious, the narrative was very passive and thus gave the game a more immersive feeling of "I'm here on this mystery place and I can just figure out what I want to figure out". I dunno. Finding out that (SPOILER ALERT) Ruins was Pioneer 1(SPOILER END) was pretty cool, for example, near the point where you're finishing up the place and reaching the last boss. It just kind worked.

Anyway this high school anime trope stuff falls WAY off that apple tree, so naturally I sort of repulse at it given what I liked about the original PSO's story.

Nostalgia goggles, perhaps? Still, it's not like he story in PSO2 is anything to behold or anything like that. It's competent at times, but it's very anime.

[Great Pan]

Yup, nostalgia is always a good thing.

[loafhero]

It's competent at times, but it's very anime.

And not even the good kind of anime.

[Meteor Weapon]

The mystery part in PSO2 doesn't even feel mystery, it's just vague in the wrong way. They never bothered explaining why the goddamn photon tree in ruins is till there even after Elder broke out, and they never really bothered putting any clues about it in game.

[loafhero]

Last I checked, I'm sure its now Profound Darkness that's being sealed in the tree.

[Zipzo]

Nostalgia goggles, perhaps? Still, it's not like he story in PSO2 is anything to behold or anything like that. It's competent at times, but it's very anime.

I wouldnt say that my opinion is tainted by nostalgia, no. I recently did a play through of Forest > Ruins starting from scratch (just on normal mode, but still it's always a thrill) and the atmosphere in that game is great. It vibes the same way it did back then, albeit clunky combat mechanics aside.