How exactly does Rare Drop+/Umbla Stick work?

[Kiyumi]

(I feel like this is a big debate so Im not asking in the "Quick Questions" thread)

For example: If I have 1 minute left on a 250RD+ and I use a Tokyo Key, and it takes me a total of 2 minutes to kill everything, did that boost affect everything I killed in that 1 minute, or did it have zero effect, because it wasnt active when I broke the crystal?

Alternately, if I kill everything with no boost, then activate a RD+ before breaking the crystal, will the drops be boosted? I have checked and my CF progress is increased by more if I switch to Umbla Stick to break the crystal.

(Umbla Stick gave me +3.00%, no stick gave me +2.70%)

Do these work differently?

[Vatallus]

The 250RD would work on everything you killed before it expired. Crystal drops are already determined by time you reach it. Only certain drops are actually native to the crystal itself and they are usually junk drops.

What I am saying is. If you killed 5 waves of enemies in TD1 and your rare booster expired at Wave 6. The 250% would have still worked on the first 5 waves and their drops are already sitting in the crystal. Having a 250% active when you break the crystal would change nothing. This is why people who change to their Umbra Stick AFTER the boss is already dead are just waiting their time.

Rare Drops are decided based on most rare to least rare to fill the slots of the crystal. So if a 13*/14* dropped for you, you -will- get it once you break the crystal.

CF rate works differently. CF rate only cares about how much rare boost you have at the time of breaking the boss crystal. If you somehow forgot to break the boss crystal you would literally get 0% credited towards the CF.

CFs that require trash mobs care about rare boost rate at the time you killed the mob.



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On the topic of the Umbra Stick if you used it properly I think its rare drop bonus would only be additive. While some bonuses like party bonus are multiplicative.

I'm sure S wiki has more information on that if anyone wanted to find it. I know they have a guide describing in what order the game actually decides drops.

[Anduril]

The 250RD would work on everything you killed before it expired. Crystal drops are already determined by time you reach it. Only certain drops are actually native to the crystal itself and they are usually junk drops.

What I am saying is. If you killed 5 waves of enemies in TD1 and your rare booster expired at Wave 6. The 250% would have still worked on the first 5 waves and their drops are already sitting in the crystal. Having a 250% active when you break the crystal would change nothing. This is why people who change to their Umbra Stick AFTER the boss is already dead are just waiting their time.

Rare Drops are decided based on most rare to least rare to fill the slots of the crystal. So if a 13*/14* dropped for you, you -will- get it once you break the crystal.

CF rate works differently. CF rate only cares about how much rare boost you have at the time of breaking the boss crystal. If you somehow forgot to break the boss crystal you would literally get 0% credited towards the CF.

CFs that require trash mobs care about rare boost rate at the time you killed the mob.



----
On the topic of the Umbra Stick if you used it properly I think its rare drop bonus would only be additive. While some bonuses like party bonus are multiplicative.

I'm sure S wiki has more information on that if anyone wanted to find it. I know they have a guide describing in what order the game actually decides drops.

To add, the RDR calculation for Dues on the CF is determined at the time of its defeat rather than at the time of crystal break, unlike other bosses on the CF. Also, party boost RDR is not multiplicative, only the EXP boost is.

[Vatallus]

To add, the RDR calculation for Dues on the CF is determined at the time of its defeat rather than at the time of crystal break, unlike other bosses on the CF. Also, party boost RDR is not multiplicative, only the EXP boost is.

My bad. Thanks for fixing that info for me about the party boost.

[Kiyumi]

~

Thank you for the detail. So it looks like the CF calculates the progress differently.

So what youre saying is, the drops are determined at the time of death? So if I pop a booster the second before Deus dies, his drops are boosted?

[Anduril]

Thank you for the detail. So it looks like the CF calculates the progress differently.

So what youre saying is, the drops are determined at the time of death? So if I pop a booster the second before Deus dies, his drops are boosted?
Yeah.

[Lumpen Thingy]

short answer: it doesn't

[TehCubey]

What I am saying is. If you killed 5 waves of enemies in TD1 and your rare booster expired at Wave 6. The 250% would have still worked on the first 5 waves and their drops are already sitting in the crystal. Having a 250% active when you break the crystal would change nothing. This is why people who change to their Umbra Stick AFTER the boss is already dead are just waiting their time.

Do you have a source on that? From my experience it's the opposite - if you had boosters on for most of TD but not when the crystal breaks, you get few/low rarity drops, on the other hand you'll get better drops if you have boosters on when the crystal is breaking even if you literally popped them 5 seconds ago. In short, for quests with crystals, the drops are determined when the crystal breaks, not when the enemies die.

Gracia is another example of that. I've waited until after the boss dies but before the crystal breaks to activate boosts and have gotten same drops as if I had boosts active during the boss's death.

Of course the problem is that people won't wait for you to activate boosts before breaking the crystal. For Gracia and other 4/4 content they usually will, but for 12 people MPAs, good luck.

[Vatallus]

I was going to explain that some drops depending on quest are native to the crystal itself but figured it was a waste of our time. Though...

Here is what Deus Esca actually drops in the quest.


[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/LXMIznc.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

A big list of jack shit.

Here is Mining Base VR as an example.

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/YAZuAMx.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Note that the 13* weapons based on Phantom enemies are not part of this list, but drop in that quest according to the records? That is because the mobs/bosses themselves are adding the drops to the pool. Not everything that drops in tower defense is native to the crystal. There is no harm spending 6 cubes for a booster for the whole quest because you should -always- end up with more high rarity drops from the enemies themselves adding drops to the pool.

Here is Dark Falz Elder.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/LLaGXNE.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Long story short Sega likes to change how things work over time. While Mining Base VR still follows the same rule set as the rest of the MB quest do most of the EP4 Raid Bosses and Profound Darkness have no drops to their name.

[TehCubey]

That's a very good explanation. Thanks for sharing it.



Long story short Sega likes to change how things work over time.

#1 rule when dealing with anything PSO2 related.

[Asdfv]

Most enemies have their drops and CF increase determined on death. The exceptions are enemies that leave small red crystals behind. Whether the on-death drops show up right away or not depends on whether the quest is set to have a giant red crystal that aggregates all the drops at the end.

For example, Profound Darkness doesn't have a giant crystal and its drops and CF are determined upon breaking the small crystal it leaves behind. Mother and Deus are in quests with giant crystals and don't have small crystals of their own, so their drops and CF are determined on death. Mining base defense quests have giant crystals, so most enemies' drops and CF are determined on death but don't show up until the end, except for the bigger enemies that spawn their own small crystals.