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ArcaneTechs
Aug 21, 2017, 03:46 PM
So, we've all played HR for awhile now, even maining it still. How are you guys coping with the "slowdown" when you swap to other classes? The mental effect is pretty present and well I haven't seen anyone else talk about this. I want Sega to speed up the other classes just so everything plays about the same speed but balance etc it won't happen.

Are you guys adapting well swapping back and forth or struggling a bit? or not a prob for some of you

Kondibon
Aug 21, 2017, 04:07 PM
There are other classes?

Yes, I agree that the other classes need to feel as fluid as Hero does.

Tymek
Aug 21, 2017, 04:13 PM
It's annoying how slow the other classes are, compared to Hero.

Kintama
Aug 21, 2017, 04:31 PM
There are other classes?

Yes, I agree that the other classes need to feel as fluid as Hero does.

Not happening, aside from nerfs/buffs, sega wants you to leave those behind and move on to advanced classes, or rather, the only advance class.

tldr; be a hero or be a loser.

yoshiblue
Aug 21, 2017, 04:33 PM
Its quite the upgrade compared to when Fighter and Gunner first became a thing. Though Hunter did get a bit faster over time. The slowness hasn't really bugged me though. It just would have been nice if Ranger took advantage of the nonsense it's PAs had; or extra boosts in movement damage and making launcher's decoy worthwhile with a rifle equivalent. It should have been a trap like poison.

NightlightPro
Aug 21, 2017, 04:34 PM
katana br is still fun to use

cheapgunner
Aug 21, 2017, 04:36 PM
Hunter felt slow and clunky. The transition made it obvious when Hrs were blitzing and trashing mind while I was trying to keep up with guilty break on runs.

Kondibon
Aug 21, 2017, 04:49 PM
Honestly it bothers me the most for Gu, because I REALLY want to mess around with the new chain, but Gu feels so sticky. Bo feels fine with JBs, but I kept finding myself having a hard time recovering PP with DBs because I was so used to the attack range on Hero sword. >_> I've said this before to other people, but I think the main reason hero feels so good is that it always has something to do. With other classes you feel like you're wasting time when you aren't in the right position, while Hero can do at least decent damage and get good pp recovery from any range, and doesn't lose any momentum when they're attacked.

Moffen
Aug 21, 2017, 05:25 PM
I think the problem,infact,know the problem is that there was only 1 advanced class that came out.
Its so fluid,powerful,balanced across everything and self sustaining.
You can buff,heal,set up zanverse yourself,cover large distance,short distance,you can slash,you can shoot,you can tech,fluidly swap between every weapon (minus the times where you flip into infinity) and you have a huge burst damage skill.

I think they should leave the old classes as they are,however add advanced versions of those classes for levelling those to 75.
Then have combo classes like Hero that mixes and matches weapons from the whole roster.

Probably wont happen,but one can dream.
I was about to quit this game shortly before hero came out but the enjoyability i got from it and buster quest,along with making up with some old friends kept me playing again.

SEGAs shown they can make a multistat class work all across the board with even balance for every weapon it uses,i only wish other classes got the same treatment.

Anduril
Aug 21, 2017, 05:37 PM
I've ended up just getting most of my characters to at least Hero lv50 just to be able to shave off 10 minutes from my usual TACO runs due to the overall speed of the class.
But yeah, putting out at least three advanced classes at once would probably have been a better idea to keep some variety, and they could have had them balanced around either ATK type (like PSU's Master Types), attack range (close-range, mid-range, long-range), or the classes needed to unlock them (like having Hero need Hunter, Gunner, and Force, then the other two classes needing some combination of the others, like one needing Fighter, Braver, Techer, and the other needing Bouncer, Ranger, Summoner).

SteveCZ
Aug 21, 2017, 06:39 PM
I did play the "basic" classes to test some of the nerfs/buffs and got stuck for a few times cause of their downtime in some parts. Only Braver katana and Fighter that I "feel" fast (still not as fast as Hero), but even they are stuck with positioning to perform their attacks (except Braver katana).

I'm loving Hero as it is; it's a class I've dreamed of since episode 1. So I didn't play other classes much now. Even if there's a better advanced class, they may make me feel like getting a Summoner Maron before eps 5 or Fo/Te, just because they're useful but not as my favorite. Hopefully the feel of speed is the same for upcoming advanced class, or at least focuses on damage burst or heavy support effects if they are slow.


It's annoying how slow the other classes are, compared to Hero.

Too sloww.. or Hero is just that fast. It's best to say Hero is too fast that we need new advanced classes to be as fast! c: *hype*


I've ended up just getting most of my characters to at least Hero lv50 just to be able to shave off 10 minutes from my usual TACO runs due to the overall speed of the class.

We are taking the same path! All 7 of mine has converted to Hero (1 main and 6 TACO only) and creating other 7 for TACO, just because it's so easy to make. It only takes a few hours to finish the new char alone thanks to Buster Quest (I was pessimistic since eps 1~4 was gone, but it wasn't that bad), opening maps are much much faster, etc.

For TAXQ, not only we just need Hero lv 50, but it doesn't even need a mag (or mag lv 100 + yulius N at most) and doesn't even need drink (don't need to deal with those items for Lola's CO and significantly cut the downtime of taking drinks during each TA quest).
My alts were 75/49 fo/te, drink matters, and a single mistake can count up many seconds cause of extra PP required to recover, which may lead the enemies to change position while recovering with whatever methods (Queen Vera, Orbit, casting PP convert, etc.).
With Hero, this isn't a problem cause we can just simply slash with the sword normal attack or do sword weapon action for any missing enemies. Such an ezy life.

Gwyndolin
Aug 21, 2017, 08:13 PM
Yeah I have pretty much lost interest in any of the other classes because going back to them feels so much slower than when I play hero. I used the exp buff from the limited quests to boost all my characters to 55 hero and am so glad I did that because it makes the TACO process so much quicker than with Fo/Te.

Selphea
Aug 21, 2017, 08:25 PM
Strangely i feel like my input complexity actually goes down as Hero. The class doesn't have a lot of variety in attacks. With Ice Fo i can predict and set lingering Gibartas and Rabartas that kill rather than DoT, with Gu I can raise AoE and long range DPS by planning for S Charge Heel Stab with the right positioning. Hero only really has precharged Lv3 ki bullet for that. Everything else is press button, get forward single target or 360 AoE. It actually feels kind of boring to play!

Kondibon
Aug 21, 2017, 08:42 PM
With Ice Fo i can predict and set lingering Gibartas and Rabartas that kill rather than DoTYou're oneshotting bosses with Gibarta and Rabarta?

Cyber Meteor
Aug 21, 2017, 08:47 PM
Well, i'm a different kind of being in this case, as i created a 5th char specially for hero, then once in got it to lvl80 (a bit before the LQs disappeared), i got back to the other 4 chars with their respective classes (Hu/Fi, Ra/Hu, Fo/Te and Br/Ra bow). Since i basically have played Hero for less than 2 consecutive weeks, getting back to the others class playstyles wasn't hard at all, also, i haven't made any of those 4 other chars Hero not even for TACO purposes lol.

So basically, despite the more dynamic playstyle of Hero, i actually went back to the other classes (barely touched Hero since BQ came out) but that's mostly because i liked their playstyle already, and wasn't seeing myself trading any of those 4 for Hero (thus created a 5th char for that) and in the end, well, it's only gonna be a matter of which playstyle i'll be in the mood to take in the future, currently using bow a lot though (it also ended up to be the only char able to do Advanced BQ lol).

I like how Hero plays so the 5th char will stay Hero, but for me when it becomes like a cheat mode, i can only enjoy that periodically no matter how fun it is, so it can't be my main playstyle either. So i guess i can be considered as the "anti-hero" of the ARKS xD (nothing against the class in itself just not converting to it as the only class i'll play), classes aren't only a matter of fun for me but also self-enrichment and sticking to one class only would be the opposite of that especially with its low effort playstyle lol

KaizoKage
Aug 21, 2017, 09:16 PM
no kidding regarding the slowdowns, now I only play other classes if I need to level them up.

I really wish SEGA would release the other advance classes at the same time, like they did on Fighter, Gunner, and Techer, so at least we have a total of 4 advance classes.
Hero would be the all-around noob friendly class, while the other 3 new advance class would focus on melee, range, and tech seperately with the requirements is to level 80 a certain class type.

Masu
Aug 21, 2017, 10:14 PM
Two of my 3 characters are lvl80 Hero now the 3rd is going the same way. Like it was said before Hr is pure bliss for TA xD While I play mostely Hr now, I happen to go back to some old class I like (Gu, Br, Fo and Su). Played for fun Bo and Fi and ... it was like driving a truck while you was used to travel in sports car. I hate myself to have skiped Zeinesis sword CF for so long. I wasn't enjoying enough Hu for getting sword early so it was very low into my 'must get' list. Now I find myself trying to catch up wasted time and obviously Deus isn't as much scheduled as before. Fml :(
I'm still worried about how things will go until we get the next advanced class. I'm not sure it's a positive thin to have mpas made of a single class which melt everything x)

Evangelion X.XX
Aug 21, 2017, 10:15 PM
Yeah, with the advent of Hero, I only play two classes now: Hero or Ranger.

Hybrid Braver's too weak, bow's basically dead, katana's AoE attacks are inferior to Brighness End; Hunter and Fighter are too slow to keep up with Hero's speed; bouncer's meh... (don't really play Gu, don't touch Fo or Te or Su).

I dunno man... truth be told, I'm kind of disappointed with the changes in EP5.

blkbox11
Aug 21, 2017, 10:42 PM
I don't feel it as much with Katana Braver because it at least has Guren. But with Gu...oh boy. I just try to bear with it.

Not really holding my breath that they'll make other classes as fluid as Hero. But now when I look at the character stats screen, I can see that PAs are also divided into two segments: one for regular PAs and one for Advanced Classes. Kind of tells you they'll be a thing for years to come.

Selphea
Aug 21, 2017, 11:23 PM
You're oneshotting bosses with Gibarta and Rabarta?

Why would i use Gibarta and Rabarta on bosses in the first place! I mean goblins, undead, orcs, tauren etc.

Right now the trending content is BQ, Yamato and a bit of Beach Wars anyway. All mob heavy, the next raid boss is a while off no?

Altiea
Aug 21, 2017, 11:49 PM
I played GU for a bit to spend some Keys, and it felt way stiffer to control than I remember. I've more or less been on a Hero binge ever since it came out, so I haven't really devoted any time to my other characters.

Jet Boots BO does feel as fluid as I remember, but has like, 10% of HR's DPS.

red1228
Aug 22, 2017, 12:32 AM
Struggling...
I'll never get rid of my Sword Hunter Main, but she's been benched to TA / XQ Duty, since Episode 5 happened. Ranger has been on bench duty, since I'm not fond of gun classes. Even my Fighter feels clunky (as far as movement) compared to Hero.
My Force is doing " OK " though, since it can still chill in the back & mob fairly well with the current rotation of EQs.

KabutechRX
Aug 22, 2017, 12:48 AM
I still like playing Fi, Gu, and Fo, i just play them less often. Certain other classes feel atrocious to me now though. I could never go back to Hu, or Katana Br, and I pretty much dropped Bo completely. I was starting to hate Bo even before ep5, but then Hr came along and it was basically a better Bo that can even use offensive techs well (kudos to Sega for finally getting a hybrid class right after 4 years). I don't really think Hero needs a nerf but I do agree with you that other classes need more speed/options. Sega should give us a new difficulty while they're at it, too. XH is hella easy if you have a competent group, even before Hr came on the scene.

KaizoKage
Aug 22, 2017, 01:19 AM
I hate myself to have skiped Zeinesis sword CF for so long. I wasn't enjoying enough Hu for getting sword early so it was very low into my 'must get' list. Now I find myself trying to catch up wasted time and obviously Deus isn't as much scheduled as before. Fml :(



You're not the only one, I'm much worse than you cause I didn't even know that Qliphad pot is OP, I thought it was the same as Zeinesis :v
at least SEGA's gonna release Deus Trigger soon

Dragwind
Aug 22, 2017, 01:26 AM
It seems like the general consensus is it's uncomfortable and clunky to go back to other classes after becoming used to Hero's fluidity, simplicity, and mobility (not to mention easy high damage). It sort of feels like Sega is trying to mimic what they did when they brought about the Master classes in PSU. Though they didn't exactly render the rest of the classes obsolete, they did usually have a higher advantage over the previous classes.

Somehow, it feels like Sega amped up Hero a bit too much. They should have at least included the other advanced classes at the same time, but in a sense I can see why they didn't. It would have probably been a little too overwhelming for what they're trying to do. With Sega's track record of hardly testing things out beforehand, I think they're currently using Hero as an extended experiment of sorts.

doomdragon83
Aug 22, 2017, 01:32 AM
I planned to change my TE/HU to Hero because I wasn't really doing much against bosses plus Zanverse nerf & cooldown on compounds were a sign that Sega hates TE. I also didn't want to sub BR and learn to use bows and stuff. Going from 1-80 as a Hero is a blast, I ended up doing the same on my sword HU. For a few months, I liked being a sword HU and got used to it but now I can't go back since Hero is too good! My Ra/HU is still there but I feel the slowness and Hero is the only cure. The old classes may as well be dead because they are all lacking; Hero came out and at the same time, Sega went ahead and "balanced" the old classes, cool, now none of them feel appealing to use.

Basically, I played Hero and I can't go back. Any new class from now on needs to be as fast/useful as Hero, not slow & clunky, not underpowered, not boring, not "balanced". I'd love it if the old classes were half as crazy as Hero is; I'll take stronge classes over weaker, "balanced" ones any day.

jooozek
Aug 22, 2017, 03:38 AM
so no matter how shit hero will be ill be maining it :wacko:

and yeah since it's not even shit that seals the deal

Xaelouse
Aug 22, 2017, 03:59 AM
Being clunky would be fine if other classes offered any real advantage over Hero. Ranger definitely needs a skill like First Blood though. No idea how people have been defending launcher for this long.

Zephyrion
Aug 22, 2017, 04:39 AM
My issue with Hero is really that it kills stuff too fast for how fast the class moves. I remembered how people used to bitch about Guren and we just got a sword PA that goes faster and deals a crazy amount of damage for how fast it is delivered (Guren has to wait for second slash to get its damage. If even Braver doesn't have the time to arrive to the mob and kill it before He does, then the other classes are left in the dust. I'd reduce the speed on Flash Trick just to make it more on par with other gap-closing PAs.

What I'm fearing above all else is that SEGA starts doing content adapted to Hero's top-notch...pretty much everything and make it annoying or borderline unplayable for others (BQ is already suffering a bit from that, although you can still deal with it with clever positioning). Gotta remember it's mainly for balance purposes that other classes are slower (and it was a necessary evil when you see what happens to EP1-4 content + BQ when you have a mpa of decent Heros). So yeah, at some point they'll have to do something about other classes or tone down Hero a little, otherwise we're going straight into the "Hero or nothing" wall

KazukiQZ
Aug 22, 2017, 06:52 AM
Hero is too much of an upgrade, it made the other classes feel obsolete. Atm I have 9 chara, and 5 of them are already lv80 Hero. One chara is lv79, another three are level 58, 60 and 70 respectively.

Having to just level up 1 class to reach max potential is also one of the main factor, the other being the availability of LQs before, so i managed to bring all 9 chara at least to lv55.

AnikaSteinberg
Aug 22, 2017, 07:33 AM
otherwise we're going straight into the "Hero or nothing" wall

I believe we are already at that point several weeks earlier ;)

I'm wondering though, if in case Sega was actually anticipating a 99.99% Hero playerbase meta for the rest of the episode, are they going to back up content with more phasion features/scratches? More BQ spice n' stuff?

Feel free to point out if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that in the next few months (or even weeks), players would either simply go hiatus (since nothing else to use but Hero), collect lobby points (since nothing else to use but Hero), or possibly even quit the game altogether (since nothing else to use but Hero) if the current trend continues. Maybe players could put up with using nothing but Hero, or meeting no other players in quests but Hero for the next two years?

Even if not the entire attack set type, maybe at least one other advanced class could have really helped clear up the distinction of 'Advanced' tier classes.

DISCLAIMER: I understand that not all classes were rendered (completely) obsolete by Hero, but from a convenience standpoint, the meta simply dictates its practical dominance (over all other 'lower-tier' classes). Even with a few rogue low-tier classes in MPAs, you'd still consistently see Hero and just Hero, like, 95% of the time.

blkbox11
Aug 22, 2017, 07:45 AM
or meeting no other players in quests but Hero for the next two years?

The next Advanced Class is slated for next Episode, so next year, we'll be getting one more. Still a bit late though - I feel they really should have introduced at least 2 Advanced Classes for EP5.

To play a bit of devil's advocate though: I'm enjoying the ride in the meantime. Hero is easy to play and easy to level. I also never get tired of seeing Deus in DPS check phase fall flat on his face after 10 seconds of losing his snake heads. It's just a shame that it had to come at the cost of taking a dump on the older classes.

Calsetes
Aug 22, 2017, 08:06 AM
The old classes do I think feel a lot slower than Hero, so much so that I'm considering leveling all my alts as a Hero to plow through the meat-and-potatoes of the game (as it also cuts out on having to level two jobs to 75 from 55,) then going back and leveling the "old jobs" to 75 during XP Boost campaigns and the like.

I wouldn't want all my characters to be Heroes - I still want this character to be a Fighter, and that character to be a Gunner, and the like. But for stuff like TACOs? Yeah, Hero makes short work of that stuff at max level, even better than a higher-level base class. My Hero can clear a SH TACO in about half the time as my Level 80 Ranger can.

MyNameIsHawk
Aug 22, 2017, 08:30 AM
i play as ranger when im doing a team mpa for buster/EQ. The rest is just hero meta, the mobility alone is good enought to let it pass and cross the map from side to side in less time, it help acomplish targets easier

heck, you could ran a TD4 and wave 3 clear all the towers whitout using a AIS if lot of heros are present jumping from tower to tower

as a ranger i donīt feel the motion because i play it staying stacionary and using Third person perspective (for trigger standing snipe). Aiming to kill anything before cames closer. Of course everbody loves a WB :wacko:

Ryna
Aug 22, 2017, 09:05 AM
If you're talking to someone that hasn't played the game in a while, trying to convey the speed, fluidity, and power of Hero gameplay is difficult. Some people will claim you are exaggerating.

I'm really liking Hero gameplay. It has helped reinvigorate the game for me. The downside is that the game does feel "slow" when you go back to play older classes. It is really bad for me when I try playing Hunter or Gunner. Even Force gameplay on some of the other old classes feels awkward. I really hate trying to use Launcher on my Ranger now. If there are several Heroes in and I'm not playing Hero in mob-heavy MPA, I usually feel useless. Everything is usually dead or close to dead by the time I get to attack.

Calsetes
Aug 22, 2017, 09:46 AM
If there are several Heroes in and I'm not playing Hero in mob-heavy MPA, I usually feel useless. Everything is usually dead or close to dead by the time I get to attack.

This to a fucking T. As a Ranger, I'm at the very least bringing Gravity Bomb and Weak Bullet to the table - they don't help much, but they at least can group up some mobs into a pack for the Heroes to wipe out, and weaken a big thing for the Heroes to dish out the pain on.

Everything else? Doesn't seem to do too much. Hero can cast spells, so they can buff, heal, and cure ailments. They can use stuff like Zondeel and Megiverse. Hunters and Fighters bring some damage-dealing potential, but Hero seems to do the same thing at a faster rate and with more evasive options than those two classes.

When I run Yamato as a Ranger, I plan on doing little more than Weak Bulleting the bosses and the guns on the carrier, and using Satellite Cannon on the big blue orb of death when it's made right outside the ship's exterior because people always seem to forget about that.

Ryna
Aug 22, 2017, 10:09 AM
This to a fucking T. As a Ranger, I'm at the very least bringing Gravity Bomb and Weak Bullet to the table - they don't help much, but they at least can group up some mobs into a pack for the Heroes to wipe out, and weaken a big thing for the Heroes to dish out the pain on.

Everything else? Doesn't seem to do too much. Hero can cast spells, so they can buff, heal, and cure ailments. They can use stuff like Zondeel and Megiverse. Hunters and Fighters bring some damage-dealing potential, but Hero seems to do the same thing at a faster rate and with more evasive options than those two classes.

When I run Yamato as a Ranger, I plan on doing little more than Weak Bulleting the bosses and the guns on the carrier, and using Satellite Cannon on the big blue orb of death when it's made right outside the ship's exterior because people always seem to forget about that.

Sounds like what I do when I'm playing the Yamato EQ as Ranger. I'm mainly there to apply Weak Bullet to the bosses and help destroy the spirit bomb. If a lone mob runs past all of the Heroes, maybe I have a chance to shoot it. Outside of that, it is just an exercise in frustration. Almost everything is long dead by the time I get a Launcher attack charged up.

Trying to use Launchers in MPAs has been frustrating for a longtime, but the current meta really highlights its shortcomings.

Sometimes someone will send me a random "Good Job" because I'm not playing Hero. That causes mixed feelings.

IchijinKali
Aug 22, 2017, 11:06 AM
This to a fucking T. As a Ranger, I'm at the very least bringing Gravity Bomb and Weak Bullet to the table - they don't help much, but they at least can group up some mobs into a pack for the Heroes to wipe out, and weaken a big thing for the Heroes to dish out the pain on.

Everything else? Doesn't seem to do too much. Hero can cast spells, so they can buff, heal, and cure ailments. They can use stuff like Zondeel and Megiverse. Hunters and Fighters bring some damage-dealing potential, but Hero seems to do the same thing at a faster rate and with more evasive options than those two classes.

When I run Yamato as a Ranger, I plan on doing little more than Weak Bulleting the bosses and the guns on the carrier, and using Satellite Cannon on the big blue orb of death when it's made right outside the ship's exterior because people always seem to forget about that.

Heh by that logic my TE/RA is more useful lol. Who needs another damage dealer in a MPA full of Heroes just drop Shifta and Deband. Zondeel or Zanverse as the situation calls for and pop out some WBs just to make it go EVEN faster. Maybe a Resta but that probably isn't needed.

Dragwind
Aug 22, 2017, 11:07 AM
One thing I've noticed while trying to play RA after the Hero invasion is that I find myself hounding for those target reticles more than ever (especially during the yamato eq). Every effort must be taken to fall just within range to get hits in... any further steps and you won't be able to get much damage in at all before they're all dead. Launchers have been, literally, "hit or miss" by the time you get up to a group of enemies. By the time most PA's windup time finishes, heroes have long killed the mobs. The only way I've felt possibly useful is using every effort to optimally use the rifle, apply weak bullet, and gravity bombs, and even then the overall damage falls drastically short compared to the Hero.

As of now, RA is pretty much just the Hero's WB slave. :wacko:

KabutechRX
Aug 22, 2017, 05:13 PM
Heh by that logic my TE/RA is more useful lol. Who needs another damage dealer in a MPA full of Heroes just drop Shifta and Deband. Zondeel or Zanverse as the situation calls for and pop out some WBs just to make it go EVEN faster. Maybe a Resta but that probably isn't needed.

Te/Ra are the real heroes tbh

ArcaneTechs
Aug 22, 2017, 07:45 PM
its really depressing that it has to take a whole year for another advance class, then ANOTHER year for the obvious remaining weapons AD Class. they have to have this whole 10yr road map setup already just adjusting when needed. it really shouldnt take them this long to get another class out. but ya like others said they should have put out all 3 Advance Classes out, it would shame some or maybe all the other classes we've been with for awhile but thats probably where they need to decide how to not make them completely obsolete in the long run.

also really annoying hearing from a friend saying a rumor spreading that Sega deliberately slowed down all the other classes to get ppl to spend money on HR. I really dont know where this comes from and I guess from a lack of attention they cant recall how fast (for example) Gurren Tessen goes off and it apparently its "slower" when its not, it's just be adjusted to HR so long

Selphea
Aug 22, 2017, 08:00 PM
really annoying hearing from a friend saying a rumor spreading that Sega deliberately slowed down all the other classes to get ppl to spend money on HR. I really dont know where this comes from and I guess from a lack of attention they cant recall how fast (for example) Gurren Tessen goes off and it apparently its "slower" when its not, it's just be adjusted to HR so long

That's what everyone in any MMO says but frankly PSO2 is unique in that it rewards capping all classes and they've been handing out 13* cfiles like candy. I've had zero gearing costs for Hr because it was just a matter of pulling an existing sword, talis, tmg and units from storage. I want to update my 11* Saiki hybrid set to Evelda but that's another matter.

Cyber Meteor
Aug 22, 2017, 08:14 PM
All the others classes play at the same speed than before and actually Force was made faster (reduced charge time on a bunch of techs), there is also the faster charge time on Vol graptor and Gravity point PAs and some other katana PAs, so i guess it's either ppl that haven't tested the changes or they played Hero too much to actually remember the actual speed of the others classes so when they tried it, it felt slowed down

LancerFate
Aug 22, 2017, 08:40 PM
Are you guys adapting well swapping back and forth or struggling a bit? or not a prob for some of you


No problems when swap classes from Hr to normal, perhaps because i was playing all classes before Hr.

Not read whole thread but it seems just another crying, complaining, yes this is pso-world i know xD

Gaugen
Aug 22, 2017, 08:41 PM
I think most of the Hero complaints in general are pretty meh.
People are complaining that the class is too strong, when it's an "Advanced Class", it's SUPPOSED to be strong, it's SUPPOSED to make other classes obsolete. We're getting to the point of the game where the old classes are meant to be used as a means to obtain new ones, just like how many other games (and previous Phantasy Star games) did it.
If advanced classes were only as strong as the classes you had to play to unlock them, there would be absolutely no point to it. Honestly, if you guys think Hero is OP, wait until they make the next classes, which are likely to be more single-attack focused classes which would absolutely demolish something like Hr, which is all over the place.


As for the slowdown, I'm feeling it for real, even Braver's normal attacks are slow to me now.

LancerFate
Aug 22, 2017, 08:44 PM
Honestly, if you guys think Hero is OP, wait until they make the next classes, which are likely to be more single-attack focused classes which would absolutely demolish something like Hr, which is all over the place.

They even mentioned Hr is all-round advanced class.

Xaelouse
Aug 22, 2017, 09:02 PM
Did they ever state that advance classes were supposed to make older classes obsolete? All I heard was that they're supposed to be strong.

Hero is the real jack-of-all-trades, which is fine, but certain classes should have higher advantages in certain areas. Ignoring all the work they put in for the 9 other classes would be ludicrous even for Sega, as classes in this game aren't as simplistic as Types in PSU at all.

Or maybe the playerbase likes to eat shit enough for Sega to go extra lazy and pull that off, who knows

Cyber Meteor
Aug 22, 2017, 09:47 PM
Did they ever state that advance classes were supposed to make older classes obsolete? All I heard was that they're supposed to be strong.

You heard it right, they never stated that older classes were gonna be obsolete, in fact they announced plans to tweak the older classes during EP5 (new skills and some behaviours changes) while Hero won't be updated now they're done with the glitches it had (macros and EPPR ring thing), so the older classes aren't obsolete from SEGA's POV unless having future plans for a class means it's obsolete for you xD

LancerFate
Aug 22, 2017, 09:50 PM
You heard it right, they never stated that older classes were gonna be obsolete, in fact they announced plans to tweak the older classes during EP5 (new skills and some behaviours changes) while Hero won't be updated now they're done with the glitches it had (macros and EPPR ring thing), so the older classes aren't obsolete from SEGA's POV unless having future plans for a class means it's obsolete for you xD

But they stated Hr ADVANCED.

echofaith
Aug 22, 2017, 10:03 PM
I feel the slowdown from other classes, but I dont mind since I barely played missions lately. At least doing tacos/dailies and such for funding my waifu clothing is slightly less boring now U:

AnikaSteinberg
Aug 22, 2017, 10:06 PM
People are complaining that the class is too strong, when it's an "Advanced Class", it's SUPPOSED to be strong, it's SUPPOSED to make other classes obsolete.

Not really to show that low-tier classes are obsolete imo, but instead to show a clear distinction of a new, advanced-tier of classes.

Which... isn't so effective atm, as it evidently only created as single class meta, and like many others here I share the opinion that they should really have released more classes at the same time to fully show the tier difference
(so that Advanced class > everything else, instead of Hero > everything else).

Kondibon
Aug 22, 2017, 10:16 PM
My biggest problem with this, and it's honestly a personal one, is that I HATE systems where you have to play unrelated classes to unlock other classes. It was bad enough when fi, gu, and te first came out. It's one thing if the new class is simply a continuation or variation of an existing class, but hero is so far and beyond anything else that it might as well be a different game.

I have no problem with hero having a lower skill floor and skill cap, but the other classes should at least feel as good to play on your way there.

LancerFate
Aug 23, 2017, 12:34 AM
I am fully satisfied, with new class, (suffering, crying and hate, glad i missed it psow is like Asylum for these feelings, from what i see)
Enjoy BQ, hyped for Dark Blast, new episode story.

One question what i am doing wrong ? because it feels like i missing something or not ?

Kondion, HATE what ? why they unrelated ? since HERO is all-round you need experience from different classes. Fi,Gu,Te is it really was so bad to lvl 30 ?
Yes HERO is not variation of an existing class because its ADVANCED.

Kondibon
Aug 23, 2017, 12:45 AM
Yes HERO is not variation of an existing class because its ADVANCED.That's exactly the problem. I'm not one of those people who complains about not having everything at once immediately, but hero feels completely different from everything else to the point where, if hero, and most likely the other advanced classes, are what you want to play, the game is going to feel like a grind while you're leveling up all these classes you don't care about to get a class that plays differently from all of them. Being an advanced class isn't an excuse for the other classes not actually being fun or fluid to play. This has nothing to do with damage output or class effectiveness, just how they feel and what they do.

isCasted
Aug 23, 2017, 02:54 AM
it's SUPPOSED to be strong

It's a video game that's made for enjoyment by millions. It doesn't matter how it's SUPPOSED to be when it ends up like shit. And the shit it ended up like? They made 90% of the game obsolete in an instant. That's what it is. Next you'll tell me that multiblock matching was SUPPOSED to result in 21/12 MPAs.

Still, I'm staying cautiously optimistic that the mentioned "changes to old classes" will actually make other classes more fluid and natural-feeling. The problem is that it's just too much work, and it's SEGA we're talking about. Wired Lances will basically have to be reworked entirely from ground up, Launcher needs a lot of starting parts of animations removed. Fighter's and Bouncer's stances just need to go, period. And those are just small examples, there's just too many things to mention.

blkbox11
Aug 23, 2017, 03:07 AM
It's a video game that's made for enjoyment by millions. It doesn't matter how it's SUPPOSED to be when it ends up like shit. And the shit it ended up like? They made 90% of the game obsolete in an instant. That's what it is. Next you'll tell me that multiblock matching was SUPPOSED to result in 21/12 MPAs.

To be fair, they backed it up with the statement that Hero's power and ease of use is intended. Question now is how far they'll go to change the other classes during the downtime between Advanced Class introductions, which I personally doubt will go beyond numbers and PA speed tweaks.

Advanced Classes are pretty much meant to replace the older classes eventually, judging by their direction so far.

Zephyrion
Aug 23, 2017, 03:28 AM
I think most of the Hero complaints in general are pretty meh.
People are complaining that the class is too strong, when it's an "Advanced Class", it's SUPPOSED to be strong, it's SUPPOSED to make other classes obsolete. We're getting to the point of the game where the old classes are meant to be used as a means to obtain new ones, just like how many other games (and previous Phantasy Star games) did it.



No, Advanced classes in previous games co-existed with the old ones. They WERE strong, but if you wanted to have fun with dear old X class, you could because they still remained in the boundaries of the game

In PSO2, Hero destroyed those boundaries, and what's worse is that they still nerfed a lot of the other classes to make it even more clear that old classes are obsolete and that you should move on. I accepted that SEGA doesn't update old content because it seems to be their policy, but invalidating class viability in such a way leaves me speechless

To be honest, while I find Hero very fun, I'd still lower its damage output by a tad. I'd honestly still have fun even without those 300k weapon actions and PAs dealing a humongous amount of damage. Hero should be fast and have Hero time to compensate for slightly lower damage, not to annihilate things so fast even EP4 content isn't up to the challenge anymore. That would allow Hero to co-exist wih other classes.

Also, people forget to see in the long term (so does SEGA it seems) but Hero is all fun and roses atm because it's still a relatively "young" class. But that will happen a few months from now when you get bored of Hero ? Will you want to play an atrociously underpowered class or wait for next advanced ? Most people will just take the door waiting for the next one, which could have a terrible impact on the game.
Sorry if I'm a buzz-killer, but I love this game and this is honestly one of the situations that could harm it to a great extent,


So yeah, fun is like freedom, your fun should be allowed as long as it doesn't impede on the other's fun, and Hero is doing exactly that to any non-Hero atm. I don't remember Buster or PSU masters to make anybody feel that way.

Arada
Aug 23, 2017, 03:48 AM
I have a problem with the fact that they killed variety in the game. They should have released 3 advanced classes, not 1.

Lumpen Thingy
Aug 23, 2017, 03:55 AM
No, Advanced classes in previous games co-existed with the old ones. They WERE strong, but if you wanted to have fun with dear old X class, you could because they still remained in the boundaries of the game

In PSO2, Hero destroyed those boundaries, and what's worse is that they still nerfed a lot of the other classes to make it even more clear that old classes are obsolete and that you should move on. I accepted that SEGA doesn't update old content because it seems to be their policy, but invalidating class viability in such a way leaves me speechless

To be honest, while I find Hero very fun, I'd still lower its damage output by a tad. I'd honestly still have fun even without those 300k weapon actions and PAs dealing a humongous amount of damage. Hero should be fast and have Hero time to compensate for slightly lower damage, not to annihilate things so fast even EP4 content isn't up to the challenge anymore. That would allow Hero to co-exist wih other classes.

Also, people forget to see in the long term (so does SEGA it seems) but Hero is all fun and roses atm because it's still a relatively "young" class. But that will happen a few months from now when you get bored of Hero ? Will you want to play an atrociously underpowered class or wait for next advanced ? Most people will just take the door waiting for the next one, which could have a terrible impact on the game.
Sorry if I'm a buzz-killer, but I love this game and this is honestly one of the situations that could harm it to a great extent,


So yeah, fun is like freedom, your fun should be allowed as long as it doesn't impede on the other's fun, and Hero is doing exactly that to any non-Hero atm. I don't remember Buster or PSU masters to make anybody feel that way.
UMMMMMMMMMMMM the PSU master classes for years made the other classes ass till the AP system came out.

Vatallus
Aug 23, 2017, 03:55 AM
While I do enjoy Hero because I tend to enjoy classes that have speed and damage... Yeah. When doing my TAs on other characters or certain DOs it just feels like such a drag now. Force is still pretty fast but I need the sonic speeds meng. Gotta go fast.

Great Pan
Aug 23, 2017, 04:17 AM
I main Hero now, satisfied. Not gonna play those old boring classes again.

blkbox11
Aug 23, 2017, 04:43 AM
Also, people forget to see in the long term (so does SEGA it seems) but Hero is all fun and roses atm because it's still a relatively "young" class. But that will happen a few months from now when you get bored of Hero ? Will you want to play an atrociously underpowered class or wait for next advanced ? Most people will just take the door waiting for the next one, which could have a terrible impact on the game.
Sorry if I'm a buzz-killer, but I love this game and this is honestly one of the situations that could harm it to a great extent,

Well, not really as simple as saying 'most people will quit', I think. Among Japanese players, the divide on Hero seems about even judging from Twitter posts. In the English community however, the majority of players seem to dislike it because there's more of a desire for variety, and a greater degree of loyalty to older classes that might partly be because of PSO/PSU nostalgia. Trying to guess what people will do or whether they will get bored or not is not so easy either, because while you yourself may get bored, there are those who can continue to enjoy it.

I personally played a single class combination for 4 years until Hero came out, so Hero will probably last me at least another 4. Of course, that's assuming I won't move on to the next Advanced Class when it gets released. Before this, I never even thought of leveling other classes because there was little to no reason to do so, but now I want to level all of them so I'll be ready for the next Advanced Class.

So it varies depending on the player for sure. And if they keep updating Hero with new rings or PAs, they should be able to keep retaining a number of players as long as there are those who are enjoying the class.

rando
Aug 23, 2017, 05:47 AM
It is more annoying now when it is one of those situations where everybody is in a big rush to run up and wipe out ( like deus beginning part),
but , say another quest, like phantom mom , it feels the same.

reload is silly when factoring in how this game built up; just another slap in the face like the effort of getting austere

advanced, hero, hype words

i'll still play with anybody so whatever :whip:

Kintama
Aug 23, 2017, 05:53 AM
The current meta is going to be actually worrisome when uq vopal eventually hits us with a timer and people start dodging non-heroes, sega absolutely has to do something by then or it's gonna be ugly.

SteveCZ
Aug 23, 2017, 07:46 AM
If I'm a new Player I'll definitely try other classes I've never played beside Hero.

I have no problem with non-heroes though, they never give me trouble at all so far. Might be slower yes but not to the point they'll mess things up for me. I don't expect Players with non-hero classes to be perfect in pug, but they also not significantly that bad to mess or fail everything up.

ralf542
Aug 23, 2017, 08:48 AM
It's entertaining to play Hero. I can laugh at others trying to catch up to me or when the mobs are already dead when their attack goes off. The best thing is when you miss one mob and they try to kill it, sorry but nope, i'm going to pew-pew it down before you even get a chance to attack.
Some people even give up in BQ last phase, they just stand there at the bases or at the places where those cylinder fences are.

Zulastar
Aug 23, 2017, 10:18 AM
I main Hero now, satisfied. Not gonna play those old boring classes again.

Same here. 1 hour full TAXQs run aganist 1.30 on BrHu (with gurren dash and e.t.c.) make sense.

Zyrusticae
Aug 23, 2017, 06:00 PM
Well I finally logged in to try the class out after a months-long absence and, my gawd, this class is so ridiculous that I can't imagine going back to the other classes outside of shits and giggles!

Now I want to see them tackle an advanced class that uses katanas, double sabers, and partisans (yes, three melee weapons - note that they are all fast and precise) just to see how they can possibly top Hero - especially with katanas, when braver is already arguably about as over-the-top as it can get. Will every slash have a shockwave that turns each slash into a ranged attack? Will it play like katana combat is on all the time (lol if this happens)? Just imagining it amuses me greatly.

Yeah, I can see why the game would become nothing but Heroes seeing how this thing performs. It's nuts. Not even sure how SEGA could possibly bring the other classes up to par, outside of buffing their numbers to absurdity, which just makes the entire game even more trivial than it already is. Heh. Well, I guess this was inevitable, after all, given the direction SEGA was moving in. Oh, well, whatever.

Makes me wonder how an inevitable PSO3 will play. Could this be a preview of the direction they'll push it in? I can only wonder....

KaizoKage
Aug 23, 2017, 08:43 PM
Just so if people forgot, bumped posted this on the July 30th tidbit PSO2 Station #10 recap


Existing Classes
They plan to add skills and change some of the behavior of existing classes.

so attack pattern perhaps? making it faster but a bit slower than Hero? who knows.

Gaylar
Aug 23, 2017, 11:16 PM
Going back and trying to use Swords again on Hunter after playing Hero is excruciating, I still love the class to death but my god.

Thankfully Partizan is still plenty of fun.

Ashvanale
Aug 24, 2017, 05:34 AM
Coming back from a 2 year hiatus, Just wondering what happened to the leveling EQs (hell i miss falz arm because it gave great exp) Where do you get exp now...?

Sorry wrong post haha xD

Chdata
Aug 24, 2017, 11:07 AM
We still need an Archer, Saber, Lancer, Ruler, Assassin, Rider Caster, Berserker and Avenger.

LancerFate
Aug 24, 2017, 12:50 PM
Where do you get exp now...?
Buster Quests, Advanced Quests (VH,SH with Arks Rally boost).

KaizoKage
Aug 24, 2017, 07:57 PM
We still need an Archer, Saber, Lancer, Ruler, Assassin, Rider Caster, Berserker and Avenger.

YES PLEASE!

also, I hope they collaborate soon again, I need more Fate costumes

rinsye
Aug 24, 2017, 11:38 PM
If they won't ever do that KC collab I've been wanting, F/GO Tamamo Caster final ascension costume pls.

Sakarisei
Aug 25, 2017, 05:42 AM
Basically the hero Class is the same to telling the others that they disliked the subclass system. The reasons?

The skill tree is ridiculously easy to input for making that class a very strong one, in comparison with the others (which can be considered from now "basic classes" since the hero is an advance one...). If that thing is not enought, the meaning of a class which uses one weapon of each different type means the multiclass builds are completely obsolete, or at least that thing is what I think when I see an elite class with the ability to deal a lot of damage with any weapon type.

Neith
Aug 25, 2017, 01:15 PM
I run Hero on a few characters now (mainly because it's overpowered to all hell and gets TA money quicker) but I still find that Fighter holds up well. Other classes feel a bit watered down and Bouncer is almost completely redundant now. I should stress I don't play Gunner or Summoner so I can't speak for those.

Hero should feel overpowered in comparison to the other classes; it's the only advanced class we have. Maybe in Episode 6 we'll get another advanced class that could rival Hero. For now, enjoy Hero while it lasts before it's inevitably nerfed to hell in Ep6 :wacko: Anyone who played Braver during the Shunka-spam days of Ep2 knows what I mean :lol:

rsod
Aug 25, 2017, 04:48 PM
Am I only feel like hero is too fast and tiring?
I mean yes it's broken, op, does stupid damage, has OP speed, but after couple hours of playing hero I just feel strong tiredness.
Never felt like that playing on su for 6-8 hours straight.

rsod
Aug 25, 2017, 04:52 PM
I should stress I don't play Gunner or Summoner so I can't speak for those.
Have a friend who plays gunner, who says like, it still can do good, but hero is like, easier.
As for su... su is just dead class now, lol, still can do something on single bosses (not much tho), as for mobs cleaning quests, whatever you do it will be similar to you just afking.

Evangelion X.XX
Aug 25, 2017, 06:33 PM
Am I only feel like hero is too fast and tiring?
I mean yes it's broken, op, does stupid damage, has OP speed, but after couple hours of playing hero I just feel strong tiredness.
Never felt like that playing on su for 6-8 hours straight.

Mmm.. my take on your comment is that coming from SU (assuming that you mainly played Su only) → to playing melee/Hero would require a few minor adjustments to playstyle (and whatnot) and once you get used to it, you'll be alright.

I would presume that playing melee (and some melee classes more than others) requires more concentration, timing, and technical skill, for example like dodging, countering, being dextrous with your hands/fingers so your characters movements are performed fluidly. Also, another thing, playing melee, and more so with playing Hero, requires that you're always on the move, that you're relentlessly performing some action, like dashing, attacking, countering, etc. constantly. Perhaps this is why you find it tiring because you're constantly doing something. Coversely, with Su, the playstyle isn't as intense. Of course, this is not to downplay Su or anything (it's a different playstyle), just that you'll get used to playing Hero overtime as your body/mind adapts to it.

rsod
Aug 25, 2017, 06:52 PM
Mmm.. my take on your comment is that coming from SU (assuming that you mainly played Su only) → to playing melee/Hero would require a few minor adjustments to playstyle (and whatnot) and once you get used to it, you'll be alright.

I would presume that playing melee (and some melee classes more than others) requires more concentration, timing, and technical skill, for example like dodging, countering, being dextrous with your hands/fingers so your characters movements are performed fluidly. Also, another thing, playing melee, and more so with playing Hero, requires that you're always on the move, that you're relentlessly performing some action, like dashing, attacking, countering, etc. constantly. Perhaps this is why you find it tiring because you're constantly doing something. Coversely, with Su, the playstyle isn't as intense. Of course, this is not to downplay Su or anything (it's a different playstyle), just that you'll get used to playing Hero overtime as your body/mind adapts to it.

Well, yeah, you kinda right, I'm not really liking fast gameplay style. Even if I can perform on it averagely well, it's just too tiring. I'll prefer to stay as summoner for now, using hero for my alts for TA runs

Selphea
Aug 25, 2017, 07:30 PM
Am I only feel like hero is too fast and tiring?
I mean yes it's broken, op, does stupid damage, has OP speed, but after couple hours of playing hero I just feel strong tiredness.
Never felt like that playing on su for 6-8 hours straight.

Just use TMG and hold left click + brand new star when needed if you're lazy. Somehow that still outdamages many classes.

FantasyHeaven
Aug 26, 2017, 01:06 AM
You can finish all your dailies and weeklies in a fraction of the time it used to take, with less effort involved. Having the best mobility bar none, ranged attacks and insane range, speed and power on your normal attacks is just too convenient.
Orbit sword feels like it was made for this class, I'm never going to change unless they make a stronger version. Can just keep dashing anywhere and then either just a wait a couple sec to get it back or instantly recharge with the weapon action. Step Jump and Step JA rings are also both absolute necessities.
I don't see any reason for the other classes to exist really. They're slow and a pain to play.

morkie
Aug 26, 2017, 06:58 AM
Hero Rifle please, i hope....
i'm not fan of TMG and sword also talis

BlankM
Aug 27, 2017, 03:51 AM
No matter how they change numbers they'd really have to buff classes in other areas for me to want to play them again.

Hero has mobility second to none, and is just more engaging in all aspects. Dodging, jump cancels, lining up AoEs, burst combos, teleporting, and a passive that encourages variety... It takes everything all the other classes gameplay had and combines it.

It is a well-designed class in that it has a low barrier to entry, but a good player can still find many ways to optimize. Also despite sword being so good the other two weapons don't slouch at all and are completely viable.

I wanna see Champion class next. Gimme fists with grapples and throws, dual-wielding wands, and bazooka jumping.

Flatflyer
Aug 27, 2017, 11:31 AM
Have a friend who plays gunner, who says like, it still can do good, but hero is like, easier.


this is the main thing about Hero, its like, other classes can still be higher DPS than hero by a bit, but they take so much more effort and perfection to actually achieve a slight damage lead against any Hero that its just not worth bothering.

Kintama
Aug 27, 2017, 01:02 PM
I have a question: How do you challenge hero?

Bacause if upcoming bosses and content cannot do that, well advanced classes break the game in and out.

Zorak000
Aug 27, 2017, 01:39 PM
I'll play hero when im serious about it, but I can only play on that level for like half an hour then I start messing up and getting killed.

still like the other classes, havent done as much with hunter and fighter than the others, but that's just because the character that focuses on those two as main class has been sidelined since I already 80'd them both there; so once my other characters got their mains and subs to 80 I'll go back to give hunter and fighter some attention.

did play around a bit with wired lance; the power buffs are nice, but they REALLY need to fix the fixed-distances on stuff like holding current, grapple charge, and other spin getting messed up by environment geometry.

anyway, all of the other classes seem pretty solid, it's just that hero's low skill floor in nearly every situation, as well as it's high mobility, that is making it such an attractive option to use.

heck to me it's one of the most wonderful times to play Techer, since I can just buff everybody and know they are going to actually get the job done :p

Evangelion X.XX
Aug 27, 2017, 01:55 PM
^Definitely, a Techer is always a welcome in an MPA full of Heroes.

milranduil
Aug 27, 2017, 02:06 PM
I have a question: How do you challenge hero?

Bacause if upcoming bosses and content cannot do that, well advanced classes break the game in and out.

solo deus zephiros, i'd say that's a decent challenge for 99% of the player base.

Tunga
Aug 27, 2017, 07:18 PM
Sega's "advanced" class is more mindless than hunter-automate with overend spam. What will happen when we get the "Complicated" class series.

Selphea
Aug 27, 2017, 07:32 PM
Sega's "advanced" class is more mindless than hunter-automate with overend spam. What will happen when we get the "Complicated" class series.
You'll need to make the incredibly difficult decision of whether to spam left click for single target with mobility and iframes or right click for AoE with guard frames!

aiMute
Aug 27, 2017, 07:52 PM
Sega's "advanced" class is more mindless than hunter-automate with overend spam. What will happen when we get the "Complicated" class series.

Nah, gurenlords win this one.

Tunga
Aug 27, 2017, 07:58 PM
You'll need to make the incredibly difficult decision of whether to spam left click for single target with mobility and iframes or right click for AoE with guard frames!

You forgot the button to refill pp instantly! And the one that makes you faster by hopping around like a pansy.


Nah, gurenlords win this one.
Making cool loking slashes in the air is better.

Chigun
Aug 29, 2017, 05:38 AM
The problem I have with the hero update isn't strictly hero, it's that balance to other classes were botched. As it was, if you simply shaved off a million or so damage per run from FI, SU and GU and added a million or so damage to BR all the classes would have been as balanced as it's probably ever been. Instead what we got was SU getting nerfed into oblivion, offensive TE becoming obsolete, another nerf to the ever-weakening RA, GU coming out virtually unscathed despite being OP and FI being untouched despite being OP. I can hardly think of any class where the "rebalance" actually did anything of real benefit from a balancing perspective. I see it as Hero replacing SU in the "top three classes" and a lot of other classes being arbitrarily weakened or hardly benefited. I was always a player who liked some complexity, such as in PSO:BB where we would swap between 15 weapons each with vastly different abilities and utilities. Hero is the very antithesis of that. By basically holding down one button the whole time it can outperform vastly better geared players of other classes (FI and GU perhaps being the exception).They also get a complimentary damage cap super move once per run on top of that. It's fun and flashy at first, but to me it wasn't worth the death of variety in the game.

Xaelouse
Aug 29, 2017, 06:32 AM
Zanverse was potentially an obstacle for new support skills coming later and started to become a very cheesy way for Techer to deal damage on bosses. Gutting it will help variety in the long run.

GU, FI, and HR being top damage-dealers doesn't (or shouldn't) mean they are OP. Shaving damage from them and putting it on the weaker classes will just make the game boring. Other classes should offer things that makes them irreplaceable and stand out, not just being a different playstyle for the same goal. People will just pick the easiest playstyle to do the same amount of damage with, while using anything more difficult becomes more risky.

Sakarisei
Aug 29, 2017, 06:45 AM
@Chigun

PSO:BB... not only had got 15 weapon types. It had got, iirc, in each weapon type, about 3, 4 or even 5 or 6 viable weapons when basically you could have some variety. If you weren't able to get one of those weapons, you could perfectly run to the famous Restless Lion quest for getting a common weapon with a boosted extra attack and, if you were lucky, getting that weapon with Hit Attribute for dealing many hits with that extra attack, contributing, sometimes, much better than those crazy players who spam just a certain attack for it.

The main problem of SEGA with PSO2 is that that company is focusing a lot of in the lonely players who just want to hit, hit, hit, hit for just killing, killing, killing and killing. That thing is completely demonstrated with the "hero" class when basically you have just one skill and your DPS is even better than the other class combos using a "combo" of Stances. It's more, I'm absolutely convinced since basically the meta is just reaching top tier DPS for rushing the drops.

morkie
Aug 29, 2017, 07:27 AM
and Dark Blast is 2nd Advanced Class?

another 1 click mouse button = OP

aiMute
Aug 29, 2017, 07:51 AM
The main problem of SEGA with PSO2 is that that company is focusing a lot of in the lonely players who just want to hit, hit, hit, hit for just killing, killing, killing and killing. That thing is completely demonstrated with the "hero" class when basically you have just one skill and your DPS is even better than the other class combos using a "combo" of Stances. It's more, I'm absolutely convinced since basically the meta is just reaching top tier DPS for rushing the drops.
What you want tanks and healers aka babbisitters to hold pants for you and rub you with tits when you cry? Go play some other game.
The only shit that matters in PSO2 is efficiency of the class, some classes are good at some stuff, other at other stuff and that and playstyles balances shit out, except Hero, Hero is good at everything.


and Dark Blast is 2nd Advanced Class?
another 1 click mouse button = OP
Oh yes it is, PSO2 is now ded because of Dark Blast, uninstall the game now before more news happen!

Sizustar
Aug 29, 2017, 08:10 AM
and Dark Blast is 2nd Advanced Class?

another 1 click mouse button = OP

No, it's something new, the second advance class won't be out till episode 6 as stated in previous Ark lives

Sakarisei
Aug 29, 2017, 08:44 AM
What you want tanks and healers aka babbisitters to hold pants for you and rub you with tits when you cry? Go play some other game.
The only shit that matters in PSO2 is efficiency of the class, some classes are good at some stuff, other at other stuff and that and playstyles balances shit out, except Hero, Hero is good at everything.

If you're telling me an answer like that is because you're the typical lonely wolf who want to be completely independent of the others, for non-talking that in PSO:BB, although there weren't roles like those ones, I could absolutely sure that you cannot play that game completely alone like in PSO2 since, for example, FOs gives a significant support to be ignored since in that game, FOs were even be able to debuff via Jellen and Zalure. The RAs were mainly featured by getting high hit rate in the extra Attacks because the high ATA, for non-talking that certain weapons with certain extra attacks were completely important for avoiding critical enemies. And of course, HUs were the wall of the other classes since they could carry high ATK, focusing even in Charge/Spirit/Zerk.

That thing is interdependence... and if you don't understand it, I'm sorry, but I don't see you in another games since answers like that means I don't want to talk or even see the others...

And finally, that's the main reason that people chooses mainly the hero, because it's the best in one thing that basically all classes do it... hit, hit and hit.

milranduil
Aug 29, 2017, 08:49 AM
teamwork is quite prevalent in PSO2, just not in the same sense that it was with class variety/layouts in PSOBB or even PSU.

Zephyrion
Aug 29, 2017, 10:19 AM
If you're telling me an answer like that is because you're the typical lonely wolf who want to be completely independent of the others, for non-talking that in PSO:BB, although there weren't roles like those ones, I could absolutely sure that you cannot play that game completely alone like in PSO2 since, for example, FOs gives a significant support to be ignored since in that game, FOs were even be able to debuff via Jellen and Zalure. The RAs were mainly featured by getting high hit rate in the extra Attacks because the high ATA, for non-talking that certain weapons with certain extra attacks were completely important for avoiding critical enemies. And of course, HUs were the wall of the other classes since they could carry high ATK, focusing even in Charge/Spirit/Zerk.

That thing is interdependence... and if you don't understand it, I'm sorry, but I don't see you in another games since answers like that means I don't want to talk or even see the others...

And finally, that's the main reason that people chooses mainly the hero, because it's the best in one thing that basically all classes do it... hit, hit and hit.

While I agree Hero is obviously far too strong, and kind of braindead. I think people choose Hero simply because it's very nervous. After all, before Hero was a thing, Braver was among the most played classes, despite not being excessively OP at killing everything.

Also, most of the classes still have their own defining traits that make them unique and warrant playing them. Techer still has the buffs, RA still has weak bullet, FI and GU are still exceptional damage dealers, FO can still mob even better than Hero on a lot of content and so on. The best parties and mpas aren't generally the 4 or 12 Hero ones, especially now that some dedicated people are starting to go back to their original classes. So yeah this is still a thing, and if SEGA decides to someday actually cramp up the difficulty, this will be made even more visible.

to come back to the original topic, I feel like the more you get used to the "gym" of going from Hero to X class and from X class to Hero, the less you feel the slowdown, especially since most of them don't go as fast as Hero, but still have decent travelling tools. I'd still definitely love the introduction of an all-class Guren Katana though, since it would definitely not be an issue now xD

Zorak000
Aug 29, 2017, 10:19 AM
hero's got a low skill floor (you have to actually stop attacking outright to not be dealing good damage) and a decently high skill ceiling (maintaining hero boost, using lots of hero counters, maximizing the raw stat boost from Hero Time and use that boost for regular PAs for a while before using a finisher, and using hero time more than once or twice per quest); but most of the content right now only needs the output of floor right now. heck im running around max risk shaqs just hosing everything down with my TMGs without a care in the world.

release magatsu was SEGA's lesson in why they can't design content that requires a specific class in the multiparty in order to even clear; however if they tried to rework the system to always save a spot in the MPA for somebody with Weak Bullet, this would cause many MPAs to not even be able to try to run the quest at all, given the time-limited nature of EQs. so instead of addressing the time-limited nature of EQs they just took the easy route and made weak bullet less of a requirement to clear them.

either way, they have been letting us players get a lot stronger in the past year, with episode 5 giving us an even larger jump in power creep, but they have been a bit hesitant to give us harder content to pit ourselves against. part of it I assume is a fear that expert players may leave non-expert players in the dust; making it near impossible for a new player to catch up if all of the good players are too busy with endgame content. the Free Match system for buster quests is a nice solution, but it only helps out non-expert players in grades 1 and 2. personally I would like to see free matches go up to grade 3 but they would need to eliminate any BP loss from losing in a free match heh (maybe even just letting it restore a main match stamina regardless too, you just dont get the triboost if you fail idk)

aiMute
Aug 29, 2017, 07:49 PM
snip
I see what you mean, I haven't played PSO though. That interdependence kinda existed, more with R-ATK classes, partially with Te zanverse and Ra wb (and some status effects from caster classes where needed) - GuRa (aka The pre stance ring Gu) and BrRa or BrGu needed weakpoint to do damage, Ra provided that, BrGu could nuke bosses but needed someone to build CT which Gu did. The deal was that while it was interdependence it was close to unlubed boss gangrape because with 2.55 wb on shit like mag or close to 100% zanverse on wind-weak enemies as well as huge burst from CT the bosses melted so fast that other classes didn't matter. It was not good, yes it required some teamwork but it was cheesy.
Even now Ra and Te are very useful as Ra provides 2.2 ARKS damage worth with wb and Te provides 1.1 ARKS damage with buff and up to 2.2 ARKS damage with zanverse, the deal though is that the DPS of good player is usually 3 times higher (if not more) than that of bad player (and leeches do even less aka no damage) so good players often switch to direct damage classes to do more damage than they can provide with buffs and bad players never care or even know about Te/Ra stuff, thus all you see are Heroes which is new, fresh class that can do a lot of stuff.

Not all classes are simple hit hit hit either as many classes had disadvantages while being good at some area like Fo that could melt mobs at range, slowpoke Ra provided burst and slow but heavy aoe, melee classes were consistent but needed to get close to enemies, Gu had nuke and air combat, BrRa(RIP) could nuke and fight large mobs well, Te provided support in form of zondeel as well, Bo had air combat but JB sucked and Su was a mistake but it's not simple stupid hurr durr damage which were BrHue gurenlords no one cared about.
The problem of Hero is not going hit hit hit, it's Hero being able to do everything with almost no disadvantages except one similar to Fi or Gu where you have to watch your ass to avoid losing damage. Lone wolf stuff, or rather save-your-own-ass-yourself is mandatory as the opposite of it is retard holy trinity which will mean that defending is optional because tank babysitter will do that for you and healer babysitter will heal damage you receive while you continue hit hit hit.

Overall I'd say sit and watch (and enjoy Hero) because SEGA can either fix issues of old classes (and that's a lot of work) or move to advance classes and mostly leave old classes behind (not going to happen soon and it's sad).

ArcaneTechs
Aug 29, 2017, 09:20 PM
Sega's doing a player survey right now, throw your complaints there because realistically Ep5 update killed a lot of classes. Sega can manage a massive update with all the money and man power they got, just again it feels theyre being lazy as usual (Buster Quests for example)

Hero is great, not gonna drop it for a long time. the other classes though need to speed up or something, just isnt worth bothering atm with them

Tunga
Aug 30, 2017, 03:57 PM
If you play a melee class that isn't hero then you're a baddie. So pls do us a favor and uninstall the game hurr durr.

ArcaneTechs
Aug 30, 2017, 05:59 PM
If you play a melee class that isn't hero then you're a baddie. So pls do us a favor and uninstall the game hurr durr.
i know your joking maybic but i dont have that mentality either but im sure there are people that do. I mean before HR it was FI for me but HR just does FI much easier. The current Meta is just a little odd atm but i cant argue with 3 of my fav classes being on top 3

pkemr4
Aug 30, 2017, 07:39 PM
Megiverse and Zanverse should have been excluded from the jump cancel nerf

Loveless62
Aug 31, 2017, 08:39 AM
If you play a melee class that isn't hero then you're a baddie. So pls do us a favor and uninstall the game hurr durr.
Why not be proactive about it and use the in-game reporting feature against them? :clown:

ralf542
Aug 31, 2017, 09:19 AM
Why not be proactive about it and use the in-game reporting feature against them? :clown:

I would gladly report the Hero's with 2017 Badge +0 30 element and +35 20ele upgraded Yamato weapons. I know that the game is easy, but dude really?

Oh yeah and whoever said Hero has lower defense then Hunter was wrong. I'm petty sure that Lv80 Hero exceeds Hunter S-Def too.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/0E1cVkP.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Tunga
Aug 31, 2017, 06:39 PM
Why not be proactive about it and use the in-game reporting feature against them? :clown:

I also take pics when these foreign leechers don't play hero and send it to sega. So they can ban these filthy gaijins (but not me cuz i respect japan n stuff n play hero exclusively).