Balance adjustments, i

[MightyHarken]

http://bumped.org/psublog/sept-27th-2017-balance-changes/ (To read all about it and judge)


Comment thoughts below

[ZerotakerZX]

If old melee became more agile it's certainly good, but man, so much power creeping over the years and mobs never been too tough to begin with. Buff them too.

[Kondibon]

Just gonna call it now. People are going to expect this to be a big change, then be disappointed when it's not.

Or maybe I'll be wrong and I'll actually want to play Gu again.

[final_attack]

Well, wanna see how much it improved (at least just Gu for me) ......

Will see if it's good enough after trying (skill tree on Hu as sub, Gu, and the Tmg-ring) :D

R.I.P. my meseta re-affixing (buying the ring again) Jumping Dodge again on Izane >_>

[Enforcer MKV]

Just gonna call it now. People are going to expect this to be a big change, then be disappointed when it's not.

Or maybe I'll be wrong and I'll actually want to play Gu again.

Its hard to say without percentages. I like a lot of it in concept, but not knowing by how much kinda kills it a bit until we can get in game.

[Youmu Konpaku]

Still RIP Techer (I think).

Still, The Gu Deadly Approach seems is not buffed (not in the balance list), so i guess time to move to Grim Barrage now?

[Kondibon]

Its hard to say without percentages. I like a lot of it in concept, but not knowing by how much kinda kills it a bit until we can get in game.Numbers don't matter as much to me outside of normal attacks and pp recovery. My main problem with other classes vs hero has always been that hero is more fluid and always has something it can be doing. I don't think the changes they've shown are going to be enough to really make other classes actually feel as smooth to play.

I do like that they're finally doing something about evening out the damage between skill multipliers and PAs though.

EDIT: oh, and lol at no changes to step and roll i-frames still gotta waste those points if you actually want to dodge anything. :wacko:

[Enforcer MKV]

Numbers don't matter as much to me outside of normal attacks and pp recovery. My main problem with other classes vs hero has always been that hero is more fluid and always has something it can be doing. I don't think the changes they've shown are going to be enough to really make other classes actually feel as smooth to play.

I do like that they're finally doing something about evening out the damage between skill multipliers and PAs though.

EDIT: oh, and lol at no changes to step and roll i-frames still gotta waste those points if you actually want to dodge anything. :wacko:

Seeing something more mechanical and less tweaking numbers would be neat, sure. Though I doubt we'll see that. Of course, I never thought I'd see a changelog that long for classes and I believe they said this is only the first round, so who knows.

[blkbox11]

I think the whole mobility factor is part of what will distinguish Advanced Classes from the older classes as part of their whole 'replace existing classes' campaign, so it's unlikely that they'll do an overhaul on the mechanics to get something like a Sword wielding Hu to play as smoothly as a Hero.


EDIT: oh, and lol at no changes to step and roll i-frames still gotta waste those points if you actually want to dodge anything. :wacko:
But this I definitely agree with. Pretty shitty that they can't just equalize the i-frames for dodges. It's a small change that would mean a lot.

[final_attack]

RareMastery : +10% DamageBonus

Gu's :
TmgSUp-Ring : +10%R-Dmg, +10%S-Dmg ..... (-20% R-Dmg)
ZRA : 10% ..... (-5% x2 = -10%)

About -20% damage reduction in total from skills + ring ......

================================================== =========

PA :
SatAim = 742 -> 942 (about +30%)
ElderRebellion = 1852 -> 2408 (about +30%)
HeelStab = 1479 -> 1775 (about +20%)
ShiftPeriod = 1268 -> 1839 (about +45%)
GrimBarrage = 912 -> 1186 (about +30%)
MessiahTime = 2037 -> 2954 (about +45%)

Not sure for crafted one, is it direct+ to power notation?
I forgot to write mine before patch :/

Current BulletSquall0 = 2564 (with +130% craft) ..... swiki listed 1442 before patch (maybe +65%-ish damage bonus?).
current IF0 = 3478 (with +211% craft) ...... swiki listed 2359 before patch (maybe +35%-ish damage bonus?).

=================================

Btw ...... FuryStance normally show 105% as damage taken, right? It's now shown 100% (no additional bonus damage taken? o-o )

=================================

AttackAdvanceRing = 20% -> 8%
Br's AttackAdvance = 150% -> 135%
Hu's ChargeParry = 0.3s - 0.7s -> 0.7s - 1.5s

[Kintama]

Sauce for numbers please?

[Infinity Series]

They should remove stance system completely.

[Kondibon]

Well I can immediately feel the difference with Gu. But then I DC'd :wacko:

[final_attack]

Never thought I'd see .... Tmg normal attack on Gu can kill mobs on SH :wacko:
maybe I should try that S-Roll Arts :wacko: 10k/hit on 3rd attack + full gear on SH Nab2TA Gwanahda's pretty serious, I think :wacko:

Edit : nope, still bad.
But being able to kill Gwanahda with normal attack before it goes underground tho ......
[SPOILER-BOX]
https://youtu.be/StLDCINxEG0[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Gaylar]

Oh my god Hunter.
Oh my god.

It feels smooth as butter compared to what it was before.


also those Fi stance buffs

[Keilyn]

How do these adjustments compare to the Hero-Class?

[GHNeko]

Never thought I'd see .... Tmg normal attack on Gu can kill mobs on SH :wacko:
maybe I should try that S-Roll Arts :wacko: 10k/hit on 3rd attack + full gear on SH Nab2TA Gwanahda's pretty serious, I think :wacko:

Edit : nope, still bad.
But being able to kill Gwanahda with normal attack before it goes underground tho ......
[SPOILER-BOX]
https://youtu.be/StLDCINxEG0[/SPOILER-BOX]

http://puu.sh/xK2jT/72f79e1b2d.png

and my character isnt well geared.

I'm pretty sure I can hit 15k once i get good affixes and Qliph TMG (using default affix gix tmg)

idk tho i play weird builds

[Cyclon]

also those Fi stance buffs
That's actually one of the biggest quality of life improvements out of all of this.

Brave stance is now 154 % damage front, 135% back for 15 points
Wise stance is 130 % front, 175.5% back for 15 points as well.

Makes having two distinct stances a bit redundant, but it's a pretty huge buff for both. You could even use wise stance exclusively now maybe.

[Kintama]

PLEASE give a source for all these numbers

[blkbox11]

Well, this was a pleasant surprise. I didn't expect to be able to really feel these buffs, but when a katana hits for 20k for a regular attack on a non weak spot with no WB, it's pretty amazing. I've yet to test GU, but it seems the regular attacks have been boosted as well.

[Sirius-91]

This movement is so silly.
[SPOILER-BOX]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWRP3jjqX54&feature=youtu.be[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Cyclon]

PLEASE give a source for all these numbers

My... skill tree?

[Altiea]

This movement is so silly.
[SPOILER-BOX]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWRP3jjqX54&feature=youtu.be[/SPOILER-BOX]

Regenschlag Dash new meta?

[final_attack]

http://puu.sh/xK2jT/72f79e1b2d.png

and my character isnt well geared.

I'm pretty sure I can hit 15k once i get good affixes and Qliph TMG (using default affix gix tmg)

idk tho i play weird builds

Well, I did try S-Roll on Lv2 + S-RollArts Lv2 ........ I'll try it both at Lv5 tomorrow (gonna do things irl atm sadly :( Will test more tomorrow >.< )
I wonder if it's possible to hit 20k .... o-o since both S-RollUp and S-RollArts gave +50% each at Lv5.


This movement is so silly.

o-o That's ..... far indeed.
Also, saw this on Twitter. Br's Asagiri vs Hr in term of move speed. (https://twitter.com/2828_mameratos/status/912972430695473152)

[oratank]

Sacrifice Bite hit harder almost 200% wonder how dragonslayer gonna be

[Mattykins]

Gran Wave practically goes across the entire fucking map now, lol. It literally sends you from the entrance of the campship all the way to the far end of the portal.

[Kondibon]

This movement is so silly.
[SPOILER-BOX]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWRP3jjqX54&amp;feature=youtu.be[/SPOILER-BOX]*Slowly puts GS back on my pallet*

[Cyclon]

Sacrifice Bite hit harder almost 200% wonder how dragonslayer gonna be
Can confirm. It's as I feared, normal attacks seem to eclipse PAs for swords, outside of burst damage probably. And I don't even have attack advance or that potential atm.

[final_attack]

Gran Wave practically goes across the entire fucking map now, lol. It literally sends you from the entrance of the campship all the way to the far end of the portal.

That's ....... great news to hear (since I had JB on my GuHu palette) ..... :wacko:

[Xaelouse]

Well clearing ult lillipa with JBs alone has never been easier. But the weapon's, and the class's, entire situation didn't really change much.

[Moffen]

Partisan twirl giving back 30pp after PA and 10pp after normal makes me wet.

Jesus christ.

[Xaelouse]

It's convenient but slows you down considerably if you rely on it too much. Especially combined with the faster sacred skewer type-0 charge. Still very good for spear chucking

[F14M3K]

How appealing are these bullet bow numbers now?
https://twitter.com/jiruCM/status/912969885839323141

[oratank]

meanwhile in pso2 dev team
[SPOILER-BOX]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DKRqhAMvXs[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kintama]

How appealing are these bullet bow numbers now?
https://twitter.com/jiruCM/status/912969885839323141

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is somehow STRONGER than hero holy shit

[morkie]

Here's mine: normal Atttack

RA/BR

https://imgur.com/a/Ax8le

RA/HU

https://i.imgur.com/x6Wb3Qd.png

[Ransu]

So I just played BO/HU and I can say for sure it feels much smoother and less static. Destruct Wing and Gran Wave are lol for movement. And the icing on the cake is my DB normals are hitting around upwards of 11k per hit. Also BR/RA feels better since you can effectively cycle Chase and Banish combos now.

[Melodys]

Any worthwhile changes for Fo or Su? Haven't got on to test but reading bumped before the update made the buffs seemed pretty inconsequential

[cheapgunner]

So I guess my Gix Bow is gonna get more use. If only I had that Quartz 13* bullet bow...

[ZerotakerZX]

wow. Rare mastery got from puny +30atk to shivering +10%. Must buffed skill ever.

[AnikaSteinberg]

Fighters, it has been a long, harsh road towards the fix that we all needed the most since time immemorial...

[ZerotakerZX]

Fighters, it has been a long, harsh road towards the fix that we all needed the most since time immemorial...

How so? Fi was kinda OP for a while

[Zephyrion]

How so? Fi was kinda OP for a while

More like people being annoyed by stance inconsistency, which is now a non-issue with the added numbers.Still looks like stances are bounded to slowly disappear, and I'm probably the only person regretting how uniform they are becoming. Oh well

[isCasted]

It feels more like a bugfix than a balance change

[blkbox11]

Also, saw this on Twitter. Br's Asagiri vs Hr in term of move speed. (https://twitter.com/2828_mameratos/status/912972430695473152)

Used this earlier to traverse Ruins before maintenance hit, but without realizing just how fast it is. I thought I was seeing things, but I guess this confirms it.

[KaizoKage]

so I guess this is the end of Hero Star Online 2? It seems a lot of people are appreciating the change (and so do I)

[morkie]

yup, me too so satisfied, one last thing is more custom PA like End Attraction type-0 and Sat Can type-0 with less charge time, or new PA

[isCasted]

EP5 definitely went from the worst episode to a contender for the best one, despite still lacking in content. These changes didn't just blow past my expectations, they've blown past some of my highest hopes.

Now... WHERE IS MY NEW DIFFICULTY?

[Loveless62]

It looks like power spikes rather than power creeps are in fashion now for Sega.

I can't wait to try this stuff.

[ZerotakerZX]

EP5 definitely went from the worst episode to a contender for the best one, despite still lacking in content. These changes didn't just blow past my expectations, they've blown past some of my highest hopes.

Now... WHERE IS MY NEW DIFFICULTY?In EP6 kek

[Masu]

This is super heartwarming to read all those positive feedback.Just got back home and see we currently have emergency maintenance...again mwahahahahah *cough cough*:rolleyes: Now to wait an hour to log in...go go sega:whip:


so I guess this is the end of Hero Star Online 2?*snip*
May you be right :wacko:

[SteveCZ]

so I guess this is the end of Hero Star Online 2? It seems a lot of people are appreciating the change (and so do I)

Not for the Hero itself, but you could say this should be able to (finally) bring back the variety once more. At least I'd say this should be enough until the next advanced classes coming up slowly.

[millefeuille]

Really glad I got all the bow stuff I wanted before this. :-D

[koutsuneka]

Really glad I got all the bow stuff I wanted before this. :-D
i really just want banish back.

[Kintama]

i really just want banish back.

Hell no.

[Altiea]

i really just want banish back.

After this buff? Banish will never come back.

[koutsuneka]

Hell no.

why not?

[Moffen]

Honestly after testing everything,Force doesnt feel like its changed much besides 10pp from rod shoot.
In comparison to everything else,it feels like it hits like wet tissue.

[cheapgunner]

Honestly after testing everything,Force doesnt feel like its changed much besides 10pp from rod shoot.
In comparison to everything else,it feels like it hits like wet tissue.

Noticed my dps hasn't changed as well. Haven't tried HuFi but with sword getting buffed to high heavens from the posts here, I'll def. play with it more.

[FantasyHeaven]

Te is literally dead in the water. Normal attack boost is literally nothing and when everything about wand right down to the dash attack is as unwieldy as it is you're just better off playing even just normal attack hero. Cements my opinion further that you're supposed to play techer with a br or fi sub as a melee force with buffs. The normal attack feels tacked on and worthless after experiencing hero and no amount of attack buffs will save it.

[Kintama]

why not?

Because damage multiplicators is nothing more than a pain when balancing a class, you gotta be careful not to make the multiplicator too strong and always beware of powercreep or it very easily becomes absolutely broken, and you also gotta make sure your class is weak enough so it relies on the multiplicator to find balance, it adds nothing interesting to the gameplay other than a % buff that is actually a headache to balance, i would be fine with it deleted instead.

[MightyHarken]

I actually feel like Ranger was nerfed vs bosses and buffed vs mobs. The nerd to WHA from 70% to 30% was too much.

[Shoterxx]

Gran Wave got buffed in range? Well, gotta skip dem TA scripted triggers.

[Cyclon]

Noticed my dps hasn't changed as well. Haven't tried HuFi but with sword getting buffed to high heavens from the posts here, I'll def. play with it more.

I mean you got a 10% damage boost like everyone else, that should make a noticeable difference on its own.

Playing with hunter a bit more, I think they overdid it a bit with the just guard stuff over time...? Right now starting a PA charge can give you 1.5 second of invulnerability through charge parrying + all guard, and if you get hit you get 20PP and 5% HP back, as well as refresh guard stance advance. Feels a bit like god mode.
At the same time, it leaves wired lances(yeah, these still exist) with nothing since they have no charge PAs(that I'm aware of, it's been a while). Kinda wish it affected successful grabs as a result.

[koutsuneka]

Because damage multiplicators is nothing more than a pain when balancing a class, you gotta be careful not to make the multiplicator too strong and always beware of powercreep or it very easily becomes absolutely broken, and you also gotta make sure your class is weak enough so it relies on the multiplicator to find balance, it adds nothing interesting to the gameplay other than a % buff that is actually a headache to balance, i would be fine with it deleted instead.
You sound like sega. You should know that balancing is not player's duty. It hard to balance so i remove it to make my job easier. Btw, banish isn't a unconditional % buff same as chain, maron, volg raptor. Does chain make gunner's gameplay bad?

[Xaelouse]

So did anyone find something that could be an advantage over Hero?
Remember, Hero can also equip gunslashes and the katana with innate asagiri. For Braver, can kanran, shunka, or kazan compete with brightness end?

[FantasyHeaven]

spamming sacred skewer 0 forever with partizan seems pretty broken

[Xaelouse]

https://twitter.com/amasaku_pso2/status/913014910270849025

Nice to see partizan finally having their PP issues fixed. Partizan will be (somewhat) good in BQs then. The weapon has unremarkable PAs for closing distance so it's fair for them to be spear chucking instead.

[Altiea]

So, it seems like they buffed Kazan 0 to be comparable to full charge Spirit Bullet.

[MightyHarken]

Any ranger aboard who can compare dps from before and now? I feel a lot weaker when hitting a weak spot + WB

[KaizoKage]

So I saw something on reddit, Asagiri is faster than boost pad now :v
https://twitter.com/xalleviel/status/912971616937590785

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/72rabg/when_you_find_out_gunslash_is_faster_than_hero/dnkmsv0/

[Zephyrion]

Any ranger aboard who can compare dps from before and now? I feel a lot weaker when hitting a weak spot + WB

It's probably just an impression, I don't have precise numbers because I didn't test it too extensively yet, but EA and SC just hit way harder than before with SS tacked in, about the same as before with new moving snipe. the new wb power is nice extra damage as long as you refresh it before previous one wears off. Launcher's got a huge buff to most of its PA, and new Moving snipe makes up for WHA nerf pretty nicely. I managed to hit over 200k divine launcher, and many of the over PAs did ludicrous amounts of damage). I definitely felt like RA was given a huge buff, but I'm too much of an "in-and-out" RA so take it with a grain of salt

[Altiea]

So, how much is Helen Bathina going for on the market right now?

[Moffen]

So, how much is Helen Bathina going for on the market right now?

5.2m cheapest on ship2 as of this post

[Altiea]

5.2m cheapest on ship2 as of this post

People know what they're doing. Watch this week's EQ encore the damn thing and it drops to 300k.

[Moffen]

So,what classes are actually worth using an orbit weapon for now?
Even pp grenades on Ra feel a bit stale when you have an L&K on top of the launchers PP regen buffs ._.

[escarlata]

It's probably just an impression, I don't have precise numbers because I didn't test it too extensively yet, but EA and SC just hit way harder than before with SS tacked in, about the same as before with new moving snipe. the new wb power is nice extra damage as long as you refresh it before previous one wears off. Launcher's got a huge buff to most of its PA, and new Moving snipe makes up for WHA nerf pretty nicely. I managed to hit over 200k divine launcher, and many of the over PAs did ludicrous amounts of damage). I definitely felt like RA gave a huge buff, but I'm too much of an "in-and-out" RA so take it with a grain of salt
I think the numbers are sth like this:
Old multipliers:
Wha 1&2: 1.35 x 1.35 = 1.8225
SS 1&2: 1.15 x 1.15 = 1.3225
Sharpshooter: 1.2
Total (SS): 2.8923075
MS: 1.05
Total (MS): 2.29635

New multipliers:
Wha 1&2: 1.15 x 1.15 = 1.3225
SS: 1.25 x 1.15 = 1.4375
Sharpshooter: 1.1
Total (SS): 2.091203125
MS: 1.25
Total (MS) 1.8184375

2.89/2.09 is about 1.38, which means that any PA that received more than a 1.38x boost in power (all of them) became stronger when in SS
2.29/1.81 is about 1.26, which means that any PA that received more than a 1.26x boost in power (all of them) became stronger when in SS

And that's not factoring in rare mastery which every class gained, so another 10% on top of that.

[Altiea]

https://twitter.com/M_M_M_Kevin/status/913013729133867008

Straight Charge 0 has some competition.

[MightyHarken]

I wouldn´t say Moving snipe hsving 125% damage compensates a 40% damage lost from WHA. Especially because when you´re going to deal DPS, you´re most likely going to go on Standing Snipe.

[GHNeko]

I think the point of them nerfing shit like SS and ZRA and buffing Fi Stance Demerits and Moving Snipe is that damage is normalized across a variety of situations.

The thing about Hero is that no matter the situation. No matter the range. Distance. Height. Position. Whatever. Their damage stays relatively static aside from getting hit.

Gu, Fi, Ra, Br, Bo.

They all have relatively harsh penalties for how easy it is to fail their condition in this day and age of PSO2.

[Cyclon]

Did Launchers really get buffed at all damage wise? I'd assume the nerf to WHA would affect them even more than the rest since it made the non-weak bonus ring a very strong option.

[Zephyrion]

Did Launchers really get buffed at all damage wise? I'd assume the nerf to WHA would affect them even more than the rest since it made the non-weak bonus ring a very strong option.

They did...That's actually the reason why launcher is so incredibly strong now. Most of the PAs, to compensate for multiplier nerfs, got double their older power notation. No amount of damage reduction from WHA could offset a friggin almost +90% on Divine Launcher, +100% on Concentrate and Flame Bullet, and so on. The smallest increase is Sphere Eraser...still a whopping 40% difference on Power Notation.

Now I know multipliers and buffs to power notations aren't the same thing and affect damage formula differently, but from what I've been seeing, damage is at least similar to what it used to, and at best, vastly better for most of PAs

[SoulSighTy]

With this up date and Fo got only 10% atk buff from Rare Mastery (and PP gain buff)...
Is it good to go Fo/Fi or Fi Orbit Fi/Fo?

[final_attack]

Well, found this on BusterQuest earlier (just before Mother, ran as Gu) ........... I wonder if the balance isn't enough tho :wacko:
The other run I did, have 1 Ra ......

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/xKUXr/11b4d52118.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[KazukiQZ]

When mastered and used well, Hero is still the best in what it does, so no surprise there.

[final_attack]

When mastered and used well, Hero is still the best in what it does, so no surprise there.

Well, I was hoping to see more "colorful" classes on player list after the buff .... so, yea, a bit down when I found no other classes ^^; haha

[Mattykins]

Did Launchers really get buffed at all damage wise? I'd assume the nerf to WHA would affect them even more than the rest since it made the non-weak bonus ring a very strong option.

What Zeph said, plus they got a bit of a speed boost, too. Divine Launcher-0 doesn't take as long to charge and Rodeo Drive-0 is so ridiculously mobile I dunno if I can ever walk normally as Ra again.

[Cyclon]

What Zeph said, plus they got a bit of a speed boost, too. Divine Launcher-0 doesn't take as long to charge and Rodeo Drive-0 is so ridiculously mobile I dunno if I can ever walk normally as Ra again.
Yeah, I did notice the speed changes. It's the damage difference I had little way of figuring out since I never took the time to level a non weak hit ring.

[GHNeko]

With this up date and Fo got only 10% atk buff from Rare Mastery (and PP gain buff)...
Is it good to go Fo/Fi or Fi Orbit Fi/Fo?

FoFi has been good. It's just that no one on ship 2 plays FoFi. Very overlooked class. Which makes sense. It's harder to play than FoTe lol.

Except me.

FeelsLonelyMan

[Selphea]

FoFi has been good. It's just that no one on ship 2 plays FoFi. Very overlooked class. Which makes sense. It's harder to play than FoTe lol.

Except me.

FeelsLonelyMan

Whaaa I play FoFi! Especially with Lightning and Ice buffs and double element builds being viable.

[Lyrise]

Well, I was hoping to see more "colorful" classes on player list after the buff .... so, yea, a bit down when I found no other classes ^^; haha

They did say that all non-hero classes could outdamage hero as long as you put in the effort. Very few people want to put in that extra effort, and given the actual output of hero with the minimum effort put into using the actual class, I don't see this changing any time soon.

Any more improvements to the non-hero classes, and they'll most likely have defeated the reason hero even exists in the first place.

[ZerotakerZX]

Whaaa I play FoFi! Especially with Lightning and Ice buffs and double element builds being viable.

How does it work?

[Anduril]

They did say that all non-hero classes could outdamage hero as long as you put in the effort. Very few people want to put in that extra effort, and given the actual output of hero with the minimum effort put into using the actual class, I don't see this changing any time soon.

Any more improvements to the non-hero classes, and they'll most likely have defeated the reason hero even exists in the first place.
This is the reason I'm at least sticking with running all my characters as Hero for TAXQCOs; while using the other classes at least brings back some variety, I would rather just mindlessly use Hero to get them done quickly instead of needing to actually pay attention to what I'm doing.
Other than that, I am going to be using other class combos again since I really missed the variety.

[final_attack]

They did say that all non-hero classes could outdamage hero as long as you put in the effort. Very few people want to put in that extra effort, and given the actual output of hero with the minimum effort put into using the actual class, I don't see this changing any time soon.

Any more improvements to the non-hero classes, and they'll most likely have defeated the reason hero even exists in the first place.

Oh?
I thought that effort thingy already applied to classes even before current balance (current patch just ease out the effort needed) o-o

I see .... well, I did saw people posting "colorful" classes yesterday on Twitter, so, I thought I'd see the same (since I can't really play the game after last maintenance, just checking Gu's balance then logged off) o-o

Oh well, then .....

[FantasyHeaven]

They did say that all non-hero classes could outdamage hero as long as you put in the effort.
not even remotely possible with techer. like the whole idea of a techer outdamaging anything much less hero is so completely out there, hard to say what game "they" might be playing because it's definitely not pso2

How does it work?
It works by doing an itty bitty more damage (might not even be true anymore) than fo/te against trash in a guruguru setting but on the other hand completely worthless against bosses.

[Selphea]

How does it work?

FoTe only gets 1.2x on weak element, and typically a 1.2x weakness on the enemy itself for 1.44x. Strictly speaking, its multiplicative damage is pretty bad. Its strength is PP management with PP Restorate and PPC.

However, Ice and Lightning are by design more PP efficient than Fire and Light. FoFi also gets 1.725x on TAJA techs. That means FoFi non-weak element, with only 15% Element Conversion can still hit harder than FoTe with TAJA, which also gives PP Save. The current best in slot is Qliphad and there's a ton of combo PP/ATK affixes so PP is less of an issue than it was in Ep3 to 4.

As for how the elements work, with Ice, you alternate cast Gibarta and Rabarta ahead of mobs, so that they run into it similar to Gifoie. Against bosses, Ilbarta.

With Lightning, throw a Talis and alternate cast Zondeel Razonde, or Rod Gizonde Gibarta depending on situation. Gibarta hitstops mobs, which sets up Gizonde. Against bosses, the Nazonde buff makes it decent if it moves too fast for Zonde-0. Nazonde can be used instead of Ilbarta too, if the boss doesn't let you cast 7 times.

All you really need is Lightning Rod/Talis and Ice Rod/Talis. The exception is Lilipa UQ and raid bosses, since they tend to have higher resists against non-weak.

[escarlata]

Adding on to above, the other big reason why FoTe was preferred before Ep4 aside from pp management was because the Fo meta was about spamming compound techs ad infinitum. Ever since the cd has been added, Fo/Te has always been in an awkward position between FoFi/FoBr and TeFi/TeBr in terms of tech nuking

also

Yeah, I did notice the speed changes. It's the damage difference I had little way of figuring out since I never took the time to level a non weak hit ring.
It's actually pretty straightforward.
Launcher ring used to make the 1.35 x 1.35 = 1.8225x multiplier of WHA into an unconditional multiplier
Now most launchers PAs literally gained an 1.8x multiplier on their powers, and launcher ring adds another unconditional 1.15 x 1.15 = 1.3225x multiplier on top of that, so it's a pretty big buff no matter how you look at it

[ZerotakerZX]

FoTe only gets 1.2x on weak element, and typically a 1.2x weakness on the enemy itself for 1.44x. Strictly speaking, its multiplicative damage is pretty bad. Its strength is PP management with PP Restorate and PPC.

However, Ice and Lightning are by design more PP efficient than Fire and Light. FoFi also gets 1.725x on TAJA techs. That means FoFi non-weak element, with only 15% Element Conversion can still hit harder than FoTe with TAJA, which also gives PP Save. The current best in slot is Qliphad and there's a ton of combo PP/ATK affixes so PP is less of an issue than it was in Ep3 to 4.

As for how the elements work, with Ice, you alternate cast Gibarta and Rabarta ahead of mobs, so that they run into it similar to Gifoie. Against bosses, Ilbarta.

With Lightning, throw a Talis and alternate cast Zondeel Razonde, or Rod Gizonde Gibarta depending on situation. Gibarta hitstops mobs, which sets up Gizonde. Against bosses, the Nazonde buff makes it decent if it moves too fast for Zonde-0. Nazonde can be used instead of Ilbarta too, if the boss doesn't let you cast 7 times.

All you really need is Lightning Rod/Talis and Ice Rod/Talis. The exception is Lilipa UQ and raid bosses, since they tend to have higher resists against non-weak.
Uhuh, so it's kinda like FoBr, use one-two elements and buff em with stances.

[Cyclon]

It's actually pretty straightforward.
Launcher ring used to make the 1.35 x 1.35 = 1.8225x multiplier of WHA into an unconditional multiplier
Now most launchers PAs literally gained an 1.8x multiplier on their powers, and launcher ring adds another unconditional 1.15 x 1.15 = 1.3225x multiplier on top of that, so it's a pretty big buff no matter how you look at it
I guess I didn't expect them to buff the damage of Launcher PAs to such levels, when most other weapons barely got any change in that regard afaik. It does make some sense to compensate for launchers the most, just not to that degree. But as a result I agree, it's a no brainer.


Uhuh, so it's kinda like FoBr, use one-two elements and buff em with stances.
Additionally, I find it has good synergy with Nabarta, especially it's type 0 since it's cheaper when tapped. It allows to get an extremely quick JA frame into a tech affected by TAJA and TAJA PP save, at a 10 to 12 PP cost depending how quickly you tap.
Considering the cold reception of Nabarta type 0 here though, I might be among the only ones who use it that way

[Zorak000]

I considered it, but right now I lack a decent lightning weapon for force. had a quilphad rod drop and made that my ice weapon, and I -did- just finish a 2nd quilphad talis even though I think I might not really need it for my hero character if the haloween talis is on par with bullet kunai. so I might make that my lightning weapon; I guess im just not big on the idea of using z0nde from it

I did use nabarta0 for TAJA stuff while playing bonk+tech te/fi though

[jooozek]

i only tried gu after those balance patches and all i played since ep5 was hero, gu feels so damn clunky
ill maybe play gu for the level 75 title, other than that it feels seriously not nice to play

[GHNeko]

It works by doing an itty bitty more damage (might not even be true anymore) than fo/te against trash in a guruguru setting but on the other hand completely worthless against bosses.

no its not a itty bitty more than FoTe. It's a substantial amount as its been and the gap is bigger due to the buffs in technics. And FoFi isnt useless against all bosses. You can't really take it to Wind/Dark/Light weak bosses, but Fire/Ice/Bolt Bosses are just fine with FoFi.


Whaaa I play FoFi! Especially with Lightning and Ice buffs and double element builds being viable.

Not like I would know because i practically never see you in game!

Also you forgot to mention PPC Ring!

[Mattykins]

I guess I didn't expect them to buff the damage of Launcher PAs to such levels, when most other weapons barely got any change in that regard afaik. It does make some sense to compensate for launchers the most, just not to that degree. But as a result I agree, it's a no brainer.


That's the Cycle of Launcher

Launcher is shit -> Sega increases its speed and power -> Launcher is OP -> Power creep and speed creep -> Launcher gets neglected -> Launcher is shit

[Selphea]

no its not a itty bitty more than FoTe. It's a substantial amount as its been and the gap is bigger due to the buffs in technics. And FoFi isnt useless against all bosses. You can't really take it to Wind/Dark/Light weak bosses, but Fire/Ice/Bolt Bosses are just fine with FoFi.

There's no Fire/Ice raid boss :( if Elder shows up, FoFi Wise Stance is hilarious though.

[GHNeko]

There's no Fire/Ice raid boss :( if Elder shows up, FoFi Wise Stance is hilarious though.

At least we have Dark Falz Apprentice. FeelsBadMan

[Raid_Hirsh]

Speaking of subclass Fighter, and we all received an All Skill Tree Reset pass -- which stance should we opt for?

Now that both stance-penalties are relaxed, can we solely rely on Wise Stance (since hitting the wrong side vs. Brave Stance isn't so bad, compared to it being vice versa)?

Or, should we allocate those additional skill points into maxing out both stances?

[Spellbinder]

They did say that all non-hero classes could outdamage hero as long as you put in the effort. Very few people want to put in that extra effort, and given the actual output of hero with the minimum effort put into using the actual class, I don't see this changing any time soon.

Any more improvements to the non-hero classes, and they'll most likely have defeated the reason hero even exists in the first place.

Unless I'm misremembering, that's not true. During the Arks Live on 9/2 they said the balance changes were made to help close the gap between Hero and the other classes, but they made pretty clear that a normal class being played well will not evenly match a Hero being played well. They even went so far as to say having a majority of the playerbase playing Hero is what they wanted, though the survey (which showed a majority found the game's balance prior to 9/27 was not good) seems to suggest that's not what the playerbase wants.

I'd need to check the TGS stream again to be certain, but I do recall Sakai saying he may reconsider his stance on Hero if people continue to make a big enough fuss, but I very much doubt he'd go that far.

[ZerotakerZX]

Speaking of subclass Fighter, and we all received an All Skill Tree Reset pass -- which stance should we opt for?

Now that both stance-penalties are relaxed, can we solely rely on Wise Stance (since hitting the wrong side vs. Brave Stance isn't so bad, compared to it being vice versa)?

Or, should we allocate those additional skill points into maxing out both stances?
You can't even hit most bosses from behind most of the time. So either Brave only, or both for stance dancing.

[escarlata]

Not sure why there is any question on choice of stance for Fi sub. You literally have enough skill points to max out both stances, along with all 3 of striking up and still have skills points leftover.
As for Fi main though, apparently you can't max both stance with their stance crits, so it's still probably preferable to just skip Wise.

[cheapgunner]

Hmm... Always thought FoTe was superior to FoFi but man, I hate the difference in dmg it brings if what your saying is true (still staying with FoTe though NoHybrids for me). Kinda sucks a pure tech build loses out to damage to a mixed hybrid though. >.>;

[ZerotakerZX]

Hmm... Always thought FoTe was superior to FoFi but man, I hate the difference in dmg it brings if what your saying is true (still staying with FoTe though NoHybrids for me). Kinda sucks a pure tech build loses out to damage to a mixed hybrid though. >.>;

Survival of the fittest.

[Selphea]

Hmm... Always thought FoTe was superior to FoFi but man, I hate the difference in dmg it brings if what your saying is true (still staying with FoTe though NoHybrids for me). Kinda sucks a pure tech build loses out to damage to a mixed hybrid though. >.>;

Only true to an extent. FoTe Foie and FoFi Barta are parallel. FoTe Rafoie and FoFi Zonde or Sabarta too. But there's no equivalent of Ragrants and Light is a fairly universal weakness on most important enemies.

[FantasyHeaven]

no its not a itty bitty more than FoTe. It's a substantial amount as its been and the gap is bigger due to the buffs in technics. And FoFi isnt useless against all bosses. You can't really take it to Wind/Dark/Light weak bosses, but Fire/Ice/Bolt Bosses are just fine with FoFi!
I used to do all these builds back before interesting subclassing got burned down by sega and after you've lost your PP from your initial burst you're done as anything but a Te sub. Maybe the pp ring or some new affixes that have come out since then help a bit but if you have to switch to gunslash or whatever to recover pp you've already lost in dps to a Te sub so it's pretty pointless.
Also fire is pretty mediocre for bossing, I remember lightning doing no damage, and being completely worthless against some bosses like the dragons because of their resists. I even tried an uncharged build with the boots of seraphy (back when they were relevant) and it was still worthless.
Ice is probably still ok but if it wasn't worth going Fo/Br for in the day then it surely isn't worth going Fo/Fi for now.

[Selphea]

I used to do all these builds back before interesting subclassing got burned down by sega and after you've lost your PP from your initial burst you're done as anything but a Te sub. Maybe the pp ring or some new affixes that have come out since then help a bit but if you have to switch to gunslash or whatever to recover pp you've already lost in dps to a Te sub so it's pretty pointless.
Also fire is pretty mediocre for bossing, I remember lightning doing no damage, and being completely worthless against some bosses like the dragons because of their resists. I even tried an uncharged build with the boots of seraphy (back when they were relevant) and it was still worthless.
Ice is probably still ok but if it wasn't worth going Fo/Br for in the day then it surely isn't worth going Fo/Fi for now.

Don't forget the recent Rod Shoot buff and huuuuge Lightning/Ice buffs at the start of Ep5, like Nazonde was buffed to more than double of Ep4 damage and Barta cast time was almost halved while damage almost doubled. You'll need way less PP to do the same damage as before and PP regens a lot faster. PPC ring helps too of course.

[Raid_Hirsh]

You can't even hit most bosses from behind most of the time. So either Brave only, or both for stance dancing.

That's true...

I was thinking about those rare situations, where you can't agro a crowd of mobs or boss(es), in an MPA setting (Ultimate Amduscia, Buster Quest, Mining Base series, score-based EQs etc).

Regardless, I rather opt for Brave Stance, then having both, since stance-juggling is rather annoying and forgettable (especially during the heat of a battle).


Not sure why there is any question on choice of stance for Fi sub. You literally have enough skill points to max out both stances, along with all 3 of striking up and still have skills points leftover.
As for Fi main though, apparently you can't max both stance with their stance crits, so it's still probably preferable to just skip Wise.

I mean, it's a legitimate question for folks that are A) relatively new to the game, or B) don't keep up with the current cookie-cutter builds/meta-game. I'm positive that were some (non-)PSO-World members that shared the same concern; they just weren't being vocal about it.

Plus, we only got one All Skill Tree Reset pass, therefore, if you screw it up -- then what?! You'll have to wait until for another skill adjustments/balance patch -- let alone, EP VI to arrive?! Well, that's a super, duper negative on that one...

All for all, it's better to be safe than sorry, hence the reason why I asked that "silly" question. With that being said, thanks for the information, escarlata.

[Zephyrion]

I used to do all these builds back before interesting subclassing got burned down by sega and after you've lost your PP from your initial burst you're done as anything but a Te sub. Maybe the pp ring or some new affixes that have come out since then help a bit but if you have to switch to gunslash or whatever to recover pp you've already lost in dps to a Te sub so it's pretty pointless.
Also fire is pretty mediocre for bossing, I remember lightning doing no damage, and being completely worthless against some bosses like the dragons because of their resists. I even tried an uncharged build with the boots of seraphy (back when they were relevant) and it was still worthless.
Ice is probably still ok but if it wasn't worth going Fo/Br for in the day then it surely isn't worth going Fo/Fi for now.

Also the big thing is, everybody is taking fire and Light as an example when they think PP consumption. Those two shine with TE sub because of how PP intensive they are in general. Lightining with PP Save, on the other hand, is incredibly sustainable, so you don't even need PP Restore/Convert to keep dishing on damage. As for Ice, the slow charge times make it that much easier to sustain, even without TE sub. Only Ilbarta is PP intensive, and even then it's better on a FO/BR or FO/FI because you want that last hit to hit as hard as possible rather than be able to do several chains in a row for most content

[escarlata]

Another part of why FoFi is so much more viable post Ep5 is really due to how much Ragrants has fallen off from being the holy grail of all techs. It is still the strongest tech dps-wise (I think) but when you take away its ability to give a Barant every 10 sec, the newly buffed Ice and Lightning techs become infinitely more appealing with their slightly lower dps yet significantly higher dppp


Also:

Plus, we only got one All Skill Tree Reset pass, therefore, if you screw it up -- then what?! You'll have to wait until for another skill adjustments/balance patch -- let alone, EP VI to arrive?! Well, that's a super, duper negative on that one...
I don’t mean to sound condescending but the /Fi sub tree is impossible to mess up. Maybe for Fi/ main trees there is an actual trade off to consider but /Fi sub only needs 41 skill points for all core skills (brave stance(up)/taja(pps)/pp slayer) and you honestly don’t lose too much even if you just save the remaining 53 points. I mean in perspective, you can be level 20 and have the majority of your multipliers from a /Fi sub

[GHNeko]

I used to do all these builds back before interesting subclassing got burned down by sega and after you've lost your PP from your initial burst you're done as anything but a Te sub. Maybe the pp ring or some new affixes that have come out since then help a bit but if you have to switch to gunslash or whatever to recover pp you've already lost in dps to a Te sub so it's pretty pointless.
Also fire is pretty mediocre for bossing, I remember lightning doing no damage, and being completely worthless against some bosses like the dragons because of their resists. I even tried an uncharged build with the boots of seraphy (back when they were relevant) and it was still worthless.
Ice is probably still ok but if it wasn't worth going Fo/Br for in the day then it surely isn't worth going Fo/Fi for now.

A Rod Shoot Ring is actually really good for regenerating PP as FoFi simply because that you regenerate PP per enemy hit. Considering the huge buff to Rod shoot now, I'd go as far to say that FoFi doesnt have any regen problems for mobbing and sustain on bosses is substantially easier.

Fire is more than mediocre for bossing on FoFi just because of all the fire buffs, specifically to Foie and Nafoie which would be your premier taja loop during boss encounters. Ponthi put out a video of bossing with rod in lilipa UQ and he was gettin 180k Nafoies with FoBr. Yeah enemies are weak to fire but you're still hitting around 130k on Nafoie alone on non weak enemies with Rod FoBr. I'm not going to say Fire is amazing for bossing, but it's good unless the enemy has substantial non-weak tech resists.



Don't forget the recent Rod Shoot buff and huuuuge Lightning/Ice buffs at the start of Ep5, like Nazonde was buffed to more than double of Ep4 damage and Barta cast time was almost halved while damage almost doubled. You'll need way less PP to do the same damage as before and PP regens a lot faster. PPC ring helps too of course.

But which element is best now for FoFi in general. :eyes:

[milranduil]

fi buffs feeling real good
[spoiler-box]
boss rush LQ duo 3:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAou_mwR56M
[/spoiler-box]

[Zephyrion]

https://twitter.com/sala_spit_g/status/913146671868944384?s=09 comparing mobility from various PA/techs

[ZerotakerZX]

fi buffs feeling real good
[spoiler-box]
boss rush LQ duo 3:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAou_mwR56M
[/spoiler-box]

Like Fi needed em, aside from agility correction.

[rando]

fi buffs feeling real good
[spoiler-box]
boss rush LQ duo 3:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAou_mwR56M
[/spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WUBvBj4t0

how do you get the petit anga mag to bow with you as shown in the video (3min) ?

[ZerotakerZX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WUBvBj4t0

how do you get the petit anga mag to bow with you as shown in the video (3min) ?

it was uber rare drop from LQ about old episodes.

[rando]

it was uber rare drop from LQ about old episodes.


I know it what was a rare drop,
but what i'm asking is how do you get the petit anga mag to bow with your character as shown in the video ( when i do regular bow it does not bow with my character)

Was it ever possible to get the mag to bow with you; just some video show ?

[Moffen]

I know it what was a rare drop,
but what i'm asking is how do you get the petit anga mag to bow with your character as shown in the video ( when i do regular bow it does not bow with my character)

Was it ever possible to get the mag to bow with you; just some video show ?

I think its something that was probably just well timed with one of the mags idle actions or after feeding

[milranduil]

Something I've noticed since these balance changes was that ranged resistance seems to be removed from non-HS hitboxes in UQ. Sharp bomber on anga with br/hu was doing 101k on body then 174k for headshot. I'm not sure to what end this goes, like gruzoras/deadlion face since they were lower than 1.7, but the additional 15% resistance is definitely gone from otherwise normal hitboxes.

[AmanoMai]

Something I've noticed since these balance changes was that ranged resistance seems to be removed from non-HS hitboxes in UQ. Sharp bomber on anga with br/hu was doing 101k on body then 174k for headshot. I'm not sure to what end this goes, like gruzoras/deadlion face since they were lower than 1.7, but the additional 15% resistance is definitely gone from otherwise normal hitboxes.

i wonder if that applies on other enemies too, like the raid bosses. (deus snakes have 1.0 multiplier on strike and 0.85 on ranged&tech)
if so then that's definitely some nice improvements to ranged classes.

[GHNeko]

Something I've noticed since these balance changes was that ranged resistance seems to be removed from non-HS hitboxes in UQ. Sharp bomber on anga with br/hu was doing 101k on body then 174k for headshot. I'm not sure to what end this goes, like gruzoras/deadlion face since they were lower than 1.7, but the additional 15% resistance is definitely gone from otherwise normal hitboxes.

Any idea if that applies to Tech as well?

[milranduil]

i wonder if that applies on other enemies too, like the raid bosses. (deus snakes have 1.0 multiplier on strike and 0.85 on ranged&tech)
if so then that's definitely some nice improvements to ranged classes.
i'm not sure, haven't really played any ranged/tech class in deus since update. melee only lol

Any idea if that applies to Tech as well?

tech in UQ is harder to test because you'd need a reference number from before the update to be sure (other than just using damage formula).

EDIT: the only thing I can verify is that hero talis PA dmg does the same as it did before which uses the neutral modifier of 0.85 still. I can't tell as of now if off-element (e.g. fire techs in nab UQ) has changed.

[Infinity Series]

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-station-12-recap/

Next balance adjustment for october 25th.

They finally remove BQ stamina system.

[IchijinKali]

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-station-12-recap/

Next balance adjustment for october 25th.

They finally remove BQ stamina system.

Should just get rid of them altogether. Especially considering they are going to add a SOLO and EQ versions. They really must think people are willing to do BQs this late in.

Oh well it is just something I will continue to ignore save for the times I have to do them for "Story Progression", hopefully the solo version counts heaven or hell forbid waiting for a group for the free version. More excited for an update regarding Ult Amu be nice to visit that fun little area again.

[Shoterxx]

"You’ll soon be able to start a Buster Quest solo."
"Buster Quest Play Stamina limit will be removed."
"They’re thinking about having NT versions of the Slave series, etc, in the future. "
"Braver/Bouncer Mag: Changed the conversion rate to 100%; Becomes a default skill."

Pretty happy with it. Not sure how I feel about the passive stances however.

[otakun]

"You’ll soon be able to start a Buster Quest solo."
"Buster Quest Play Stamina limit will be removed."
"They’re thinking about having NT versions of the Slave series, etc, in the future. "
"Braver/Bouncer Mag: Changed the conversion rate to 100%; Becomes a default skill."

Pretty happy with it. Not sure how I feel about the passive stances however.

Passive stances that you can swap on the fly with the other stance in the same class? sounds great to me.

[Shoterxx]

Passive stances that you can swap on the fly with the other stance in the same class? sounds great to me.

Never mind, either I misread something or it has already been edited. I thought that opposing stances would both become passive, and was wondering how swapping would be handled when one of them was not present (would they simply merge both into the same skill, for example).

Quality of life changes are always welcome.

[ZerotakerZX]

too bad they don't want to speed up massive hunter animation, or to remove it altogether.

[Kintama]

That's nice and all but at the end of the day it's just updates to streamlined content, (bq, uq amduscia) so it still doesn't fix the core issue of the game: Letting us do what we want when we want as long as we want to.

[ZerotakerZX]

That's nice and all but at the end of the day it's just updates to streamlined content, (bq, uq amduscia) so it still doesn't fix the core issue of the game: Letting us do what we want when we want as long as we want to.It's not the core issue. COre issue that we have nothing to want, and they did mentioned something about new difficulty

[Shoterxx]

It still doesn't fix the core issue of the game: Letting us do what we want when we want as long as we want to.

I want to ride a rideroid to Mount Everest, while it crafts me a 14★ Lindwurm up to +50, and I want to make it's photon color darker than black only during mondays.

What do you mean I can't have that?

[Altiea]

LV200 DEX MAG for Bouncer and Braver now viable?

[Moffen]

LV200 DEX MAG for Bouncer and Braver now viable?

You can now Bo/Br for 400 S-atk 200 R/T atk.
Does this have use?
No clue.

[Altiea]

You can now Bo/Br for 400 S-atk 200 R/T atk.
Does this have use?
No clue.

Braver at least gets a DEX multiplier on its PAs.

[Shoterxx]

It's useful. Instead of having a Mag with something like 200 S-ATK, just feed it DEX, so you get 200 S-ATK, 200 DEX and 200 T-ATK, which is nice for my Bo/Hu build, and saves me the skill points for... Step Advance I guess?

[GHNeko]

I CAN STANCE DANCE IN AIR WITH GUFI

I DONT HAVE TO BE A SITTING TARGET FOR 2-3 WHOLE SECONDS TO FLIP ON ALL MY ACTIVES ON FIBO

SWITCHING TO WEAK STANCE DOESNT MAKE ME MISS ALMOST HALF A STUN PHASE

ＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡ

also BrBo is the strongest golf build now

[Shoterxx]

Actually, it gives me enough T-ATK to drop Tech Up 1 (which was needed to equip certain weapons), and allows me to max out both Step Advance and Photon Blade related skills. So it's even more useful than I thought.

This essentialy makes a DEX Mag an obvious pick for any main/sub Braver/Bouncer.

[Terrence]

Techer Skill: Elemental Weak Hit Improvement
Damage will also rise when attacking the non-elemental weakness.
10% non-elemental weakness at level 10.The purpose of Elemental Weak Hit is to give a damage bonus if you can strike elemental weaknesses of enemies. So why boosting this skill only when you fail to do so ? To gives something to the non-rainbow Wand users ? There's already a Ring for that. Well, at least they are working on the skill. Maybe Elemental Weak Hit 2 will be a thing in the future...

[Sriracha X]

The purpose of Elemental Weak Hit is to give a damage bonus if you can strike elemental weaknesses of enemies. So why boosting this skill only when you fail to do so ? To gives something to the non-rainbow Wand users ? There's already a Ring for that. Well, at least they are working on the skill. Maybe Elemental Weak Hit 2 will be a thing in the future...

I think the reading means that you'll still have the benefits of hitting elemental weakness like you always have. Just that you'll get extra bonus damage even if you don't match element (similar to how you get a damage bonus even for a non-matching element with Force's Elemental Conversion)

[Saelix]

The purpose of Elemental Weak Hit is to give a damage bonus if you can strike elemental weaknesses of enemies. So why boosting this skill only when you fail to do so ? To gives something to the non-rainbow Wand users ? There's already a Ring for that. Well, at least they are working on the skill. Maybe Elemental Weak Hit 2 will be a thing in the future...

Did you say anything when they did the same to Bouncer's elemental stance,or when brave stance has a bonus from behind,or when Fury stance doesn't have the berserker drawback of taking more damage,or when Break Stance had a skill to work partially on non break points,or when Force's Elemental conversion worked partially without matching element etc.

And that's not even mentioning that Techers can rely on a single element for TECHS they don't just wand smack you know,+you must not have even used the ring you're talking about thinking a ring that changes your wand element when you use SUPPORT still changes it

OH Deus stunned I better use Zanverse then have to charge another spell because my wand changed to wind and does less damage now.

[Kondibon]

The stance thing is what I've been wanting them to do with stances for a while now. Hopefully the stance up skills are merged too.

[Terrence]

Did you say anything when they did the same to Bouncer's elemental stance,or when brave stance has a bonus from behind,or when Fury stance doesn't have the berserker drawback of taking more damage,or when Break Stance had a skill to work partially on non break points,or when Force's Elemental conversion worked partially without matching element etc.

And that's not even mentioning that Techers can rely on a single element for TECHS they don't just wand smack you know,+you must not have even used the ring you're talking about thinking a ring that changes your wand element when you use SUPPORT still changes it. OH Deus stunned I better use Zanverse then have to charge another spell because my wand changed to wind and does less damage now.Can you stop yelling at me, please ? I'm not responsible for your traumatic experience as a TEchter...;-) Whatever it be, I said that kind of boost for EWH was a weird choice for me, no it was a bad one (it's actually pretty good, for that matter). Because I think it boosts Wand TEchters only whereas an Elemental Weak Hit 2 would boost all kind of gameplays TEchter has to offer. But be sure I love TEchter as much as you do (that's the only reason why I've played TEchter/BOuncer for three years).

[Kondibon]

Whatever it be, I said that kind of boost for EWH was a weird choice for meIt's not any weirder than the changes they made to some of the other skills. They're trying to decentralize the multipliers on skills, so it makes perfect sense, especially since they already did the exact same thing to element stance on Bo.

[nguuuquaaa]

TEchter/BOuncer

Your argument is invalid once mentioned this.

[morkie]

And where's some changes about ranged class? looks this classes will be dead in the future......Sega loves strike and tech class only...rip for the fans of range class

[Cyclon]

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-station-12-recap/

Next balance adjustment for october 25th.

They finally remove BQ stamina system.

Good stuff. Stances remain an active choice, but most of the tedium is gone. Kinda hoping they make Hero mag encompass dex as well, so that a full dex mag is an actual option. As things stand, it's still a pretty terrible choice if you only have one mag.

Also going from HR to Fi/Hu, it's kinda baffling that daggers can't double jump at this point, even at the cost of 1/3rd gear or whatever. It was weird when JB could and not them, now it hardly makes sense anymore.
Kinda hoped for the weapon action to accomplish something similar for a while, but that's not happening I guess.

[milranduil]

still using the name "techter" in 2017 :wacko:

i hope the LB/photon flare activation is like hero time, short and invincible

[GHNeko]

And where's some changes about ranged class? looks this classes will be dead in the future......Sega loves strike and tech class only...rip for the fans of range class

GuFi got a lot of love with the first balance change and this one. :wacko:

Also did you not see how much stronger than made Rifle? :wacko:

[Xaelouse]

And where's some changes about ranged class? looks this classes will be dead in the future......Sega loves strike and tech class only...rip for the fans of range class

just wait for the next advanced class, dummy.

[Terrence]

Your argument is invalid once mentioned this.Who said it was optimal ? But as far as I know, we're in a game, which means we can have fun. Too many people here have forgotten than. And guess what ? I had fun playing this weak combination. So, I play what I want even if you disagree (it's not as I give any fuck about it) and my opinion isn't less valuable than yours just because of this, you who should get off your high horse. And yes, TEchter buff is cool !

[GHNeko]

Who said it was optimal ? But as far as I know, we're in a game, which means we can have fun. Too many people here have forgotten than. And guess what ? I had fun playing this weak combination. So, I play what I want even if you disagree (it's not as I give any fuck about it) and my opinion isn't less valuable than yours just because of this, you who should get off your high horse. And yes, TEchter buff is cool !

are you looking for a fight or something? as long as i've seen you post on these forums and in this community, you should know that there are people who will disregard things you say and do for a myriad of reasons.

and yet you continue to bring up things that will incite hostility.

and then respond back with the typical "im just having fun; back off mr. elitist" commentary; that might i add will never have anyone go "oh you're absolutely right i should stop being this way to other people".

regardless of who is wrong and who is right; shouldnt you avoid saying things that start this back and forth in the first place if its not even terribly relevant to the topic at hand? especially if you're trying to have a civil conversation and learn things about the game in the first place? :wacko:

[Moffen]

And where's some changes about ranged class? looks this classes will be dead in the future......Sega loves strike and tech class only...rip for the fans of range class

Launcher is strong af,tmg is strong af,bow is ridiculously strong af,rifle is less restrictive and strong af.
they are nowhere near dead.
Wyd lad.

[SteveCZ]

I CAN STANCE DANCE IN AIR WITH GUFI

I DONT HAVE TO BE A SITTING TARGET FOR 2-3 WHOLE SECONDS TO FLIP ON ALL MY ACTIVES ON FIBO

SWITCHING TO WEAK STANCE DOESNT MAKE ME MISS ALMOST HALF A STUN PHASE

ＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡ

also BrBo is the strongest golf build now

*screams at heart with all these exciting stance "buff"*

Wait.... does Braver mag and Bouncer mag stack? making it 200% instead?

[Xaelouse]

Yes, but why does it matter when both classes have trash stances outside of breakable weakpoints

My favorite part of this arks live was that PBF/RB was just completely left out of the list of changes to activation

[GHNeko]

Yes, but why does it matter when both classes have trash stances outside of breakable weakpoints

My favorite part of this arks live was that PBF/RB was just completely left out of the list of changes to activation

You get so much base atk with Katana Gear/Shifta Boosts with BrBo now!

Surely all that extra Satk will compensate for a 1.2x * 1.1x multi for elemental stance and 1.15x * 1.1x * 1.1x average stance~! :wacko:


Also I'm mostly fine with PBF being left out due to how crazy it is. But I play FiBo who got a million buffs in the past month so I'm on a bit of a high from how much better FiBo is now.

[SteveCZ]

Yes, but why does it matter when both classes have trash stances outside of breakable weakpoints

My favorite part of this arks live was that PBF/RB was just completely left out of the list of changes to activation

Sadly this. But I'm just interested with the braver/bouncer mag joke becomes a real thing of each of their own (br/hu or bo/hu or whatevs).

[GHNeko]

It wont save the bad players who take it up thinking it's a viable and strong build and don't work to compensate for it's many many shortcomings. :wacko:

But that goes for basically any buff in the past month aside from Hero's introduction. :wacko:

[morkie]

dummy.

And You...

[Great Pan]

Wait, what is this? How come with Hero being somewhat weaker than those puny basic classes, why? Hero was supposed to be the major class of this game!

[NightfallG]

Wait, what is this? How come with Hero being somewhat weaker than those puny basic classes, why? Hero was supposed to be the major class of this game!

what.

Hero is a jack of all trades, is still literally the majority class, is strong as all fuck, has speed, can engage at any range, barely needs to pack any items (you can heal off Fornis weapons, Anti means you don't need sols if you get confused or whatever), doesn't need a specced mag and makes all your moneymaker COs hella quick.

Like please tell me this is sarcasm

[final_attack]

At least this .... stance become passive skill, frees up 1 slot (which I'll be gonna need once Dark Blast implemented (it need 1 slot for activation, right?) :o

Less hassle too, I guess.
Oh, and future move-speed thingy ... so you don't need PA to move faster is nice to have too (since I run low PP o.o )

Not sure for other changes, since I barely play other than GuHu these days (or it can be said I only played GuHu after last buff) ._.

[escarlata]

what.

Hero is a jack of all trades, is still literally the majority class, is strong as all fuck, has speed, can engage at any range, barely needs to pack any items (you can heal off Fornis weapons, Anti means you don't need sols if you get confused or whatever), doesn't need a specced mag and makes all your moneymaker COs hella quick.

Like please tell me this is sarcasm
Everything Great Pan posts is sarcasm

[GHNeko]

Everything Great Pan posts is sarcasm

there are people who post like him but are completely unironic.

[Great Pan]

Everything Great Pan posts is sarcasm

Sadly, this time it ain't a sarcasm. Move on and be a Hero, everyone!

[milranduil]

Sadly, this time it ain't a sarcasm. Move on and be a Hero, everyone!

no.
5char

[Enforcer MKV]

Sadly, this time it ain't a sarcasm. Move on and be a Hero, everyone!


no.
5char

https://youtu.be/9u9ymiSmtXY?t=58s

I'm a soldier, not a hero, dammit!

[Asellus]

Looks like more balance adjustments are planned for the near future. Pretty happy with the Fighter re-balancing so far.

Lifted this bit from the blog...

Gameplay Content to Test the Strength of Powerful Players. They plan to release content in the future where the enemies are stronger. They’ll increase the rare drop rate in response to match how difficult it is.

Response, about, fucking, time. Suck-ass game + weak-ass mobs = dissatisfied gamer.

I remember how Phaleg was supposed to be uber hard and how only 5% of the entire pso2 community was going to meet the challenge, and then everyone effortlessly destroyed her. Shit devs.

[Altiea]

Looks like more balance adjustments are planned for the near future. Pretty happy with the Fighter re-balancing so far.

Lifted this bit from the blog...

Gameplay Content to Test the Strength of Powerful Players. They plan to release content in the future where the enemies are stronger. They’ll increase the rare drop rate in response to match how difficult it is.

Response, about, fucking, time. Suck-ass game + weak-ass mobs = dissatisfied gamer.

I remember how Phaleg was supposed to be uber hard and how only 5% of the entire pso2 community was going to meet the challenge, and then everyone effortlessly destroyed her. Shit devs.

I mean, at least she isn't as braindead as 95% of the other enemies in the game.

[mr.chills]

can someone who plays both hero and old classes post-sept 27 buff comment on overall state of affairs between class power?

just wondering since i dropped all my savings on all-atk hero units so im pretty committed to hero but i guess 100 all-atk means i can dabble pretty well in any

i tried ranger on my alt and wow that thing hits hard now but i wonder if it has that ease factor that hero does where it can roll into any quest like buster and still do well, or is hero overall king still? anyone bring old classes to bq with good results?

[ZerotakerZX]

can someone who plays both hero and old classes post-sept 27 buff comment on overall state of affairs between class power?

just wondering since i dropped all my savings on all-atk hero units so im pretty committed to hero but i guess 100 all-atk means i can dabble pretty well in any

i tried ranger on my alt and wow that thing hits hard now but i wonder if it has that ease factor that hero does where it can roll into any quest like buster and still do well, or is hero overall king still? anyone bring old classes to bq with good results?
Well, my main is FiHu, and it's pretty able compared to Hr, according my DPS and TA observations. But it always been kinda op.

[Moffen]

can someone who plays both hero and old classes post-sept 27 buff comment on overall state of affairs between class power?

just wondering since i dropped all my savings on all-atk hero units so im pretty committed to hero but i guess 100 all-atk means i can dabble pretty well in any

i tried ranger on my alt and wow that thing hits hard now but i wonder if it has that ease factor that hero does where it can roll into any quest like buster and still do well, or is hero overall king still? anyone bring old classes to bq with good results?

Only issue with old class is some attack range issues for normal attacks but thats something I need to re-adjust myself to

[Zephyrion]

can someone who plays both hero and old classes post-sept 27 buff comment on overall state of affairs between class power?

just wondering since i dropped all my savings on all-atk hero units so im pretty committed to hero but i guess 100 all-atk means i can dabble pretty well in any

i tried ranger on my alt and wow that thing hits hard now but i wonder if it has that ease factor that hero does where it can roll into any quest like buster and still do well, or is hero overall king still? anyone bring old classes to bq with good results?

Hierarchy itself didn't really change (Hero at the top, followed by old classes) but the gap between Hero and non-Hero has been significantly reduced. Some classes, most notably BO Boots, HU Partizan/Sword and BR(both Bow and Katana) saw huge buffs that made them go towards the top. FI and GU are in top shape and can actually rival Hero now, RA and TE are also straight up better, and so on

big loser of all this is again, SU, which just didn't get anything relevant and is condemned to wallow in the barren lands of lackluster pet despair

Hero still BQ King, but Braver and HU sword are really good contenders now. FO always has been really good at BQ despite people not noticing. the buff to mobility PAs allow the other classes to be a lot better than they used to be since they can actually race Hero now (God bless Asagiri being faster than Flash Trick).

[Selphea]

can someone who plays both hero and old classes post-sept 27 buff comment on overall state of affairs between class power?

just wondering since i dropped all my savings on all-atk hero units so im pretty committed to hero but i guess 100 all-atk means i can dabble pretty well in any

i tried ranger on my alt and wow that thing hits hard now but i wonder if it has that ease factor that hero does where it can roll into any quest like buster and still do well, or is hero overall king still? anyone bring old classes to bq with good results?

Fi pulls ahead when hitting sandbags if you want to deal with Limit Break. A lot of effort but the reward is there.

For ease of use, Hero is still #1 just because of TMG but I would say Braver is a close #2 now with potential to be #1 on Oct 25. Bow normals with homing ring are about as brain dead as TMG normals, Million Storm is so much faster now it feels like a stream of Brand New Stars, and on top of that Katana is still solid, except with the 10% Rare Mastery buff and even more buffs like half PA cost and double travel distance on Asagiri.

Gunner is still Gunner, but with way bigger numbers. If you need to carry a BQ you certainly can, but you already could before, so IMO it didn't really need that much.

Bouncer is mechanically clunky but numerically good. If you want to screw around with matching 3 element weaknesses in a BQ, rotating weapons and managing your Gear gauge and cooldowns it works fine for damage but it's still a melee-only class, nowhere near the versatility or idiot-proofing of Hero who can use non-weak element techs and still faceroll.

Force was always ok but it's still a little slow, need to wait for that charged tech auto JA thingy maybe.

Ranger's Launcher numbers are insane now, but still a slow, heavy weapon which it rightly should be. RIP Gunslash Ranger though :(

I still don't know how to play Ep5 Techer, especially with Zondeel proofing in BQ.

Haven't touched Hu or Su yet.

Also I don't really bother going across the field in BQ. I just pick 1-2 towers and stick to them. When everyone tunnel visions on one side they tend to get blindsided by a spawn on the other, so I've had better results just hanging back and collecting crystals if one side is quiet. Sure I don't get the DPS crown but I'd rather win with middle DPS than lose with top DPS :p

[Xaelouse]

can someone who plays both hero and old classes post-sept 27 buff comment on overall state of affairs between class power?

just wondering since i dropped all my savings on all-atk hero units so im pretty committed to hero but i guess 100 all-atk means i can dabble pretty well in any

i tried ranger on my alt and wow that thing hits hard now but i wonder if it has that ease factor that hero does where it can roll into any quest like buster and still do well, or is hero overall king still? anyone bring old classes to bq with good results?

It honestly isn't worth going back to old classes unless you want to show off. Mastering an advanced class is the game's future, and the more people are okay with this current balance the more true that will become.
The only thing that has changed is that Fighter may perform better than Hero on some raid bosses, and Force and Braver have their place in TA quests that are all currently a joke now. All of this may not even be true when they buff enemy stats later like they said in the Arks Live.

[Zorak000]

still using the name "techter" in 2017 :wacko:

i hope the LB/photon flare activation is like hero time, short and invincible

techer was a bit of a goof on the PSU localization; wartecher, guntecher, acrotecher and the like, if I recall right, were supposed to be [prefix]tector, stemming from "protector" which was more about them being able to use techs from a support standpoint (even if war/gun kinda sucked at that).

I guess my only nitpick is that "techter" is still wrong, not because of the extra T, but because of the H. still, even if you add an apostrophe to it, 'tector still seems a bit off; more off than any of the other class names, so techer at least feels alright from a localization standpoint I guess.


anyway, if you think ranger or gunner are in a bad place right next to hero right now, you are sorely mistaken.

force still needs some work to be able to have the powerful compounds of fo/te, while having strong damage while compounds are on cooldown like fo/fi does. the cooldown on compounds kinda makes them look like analogs to hero finishers, but fo/te kinda struggles if you are thrown into an elemental soup quest; especially if more than one of fire/ice/lightning are present in a significant way.
I still say force needs to have the other three elemental masteries, and techer would need some extra damage skill, heck even if it's just an Elemental Weak Hit 2

as for braver or bouncer as a subclass, yeah not only are their "general" stances weaker than using fury /hu or brave or dual stance /fi, they also lack an equivalent skill to hunter's JA Bonus 1+2 or fighter's Tech-Arts JA Bonus. note for bouncer I count shifta air attack boost as part of the stances, because bouncer's stances lack an equivalent to braver's stance charge skills. (braver sub isnt that good unless you are using a lot of charging PAs, but even then it's still weaker than fury or brave)
they technically function fine as main classes since Katana Combat JA Boost, Rapid Shooting Advance, and Rapid Boost JA Bonus all function as the JA Boost equivalents, just on a cooldown and bound to your main class weapons

[ZerotakerZX]

Hey, after rebalance GuRa is still ded compared to GuHu, or snipe buffs and stance ring nerd made them more balanced to each other?

[Raujinn]

As best I can tell. all x/Ra and x/Gu builds took a hit because they depended on the attack modifiers of each and those were reduced to make Ra and Gu main damage more stable. It's better to go GuHu or RaHu overall still as best I know.

[DavidAG]

BrRa is alive again, and any x/Gu build got killed when they made chain trigger weaker and chain finish stronger but main class only.

About Gu/Ra, the nerf to the stance ring means they wanted to buff Gu/Ra, but since I dont play Gunner, I don't really have an answer to that.

[Selphea]

The "nerf" to stance ring was needed to offset the buffs to PAs. It's not even a nerf.

PA power on most Ranged PAs like Sat Aim went up from 724 to 942 = 30%

TMG Ring is 110% / 130% = 84.6% of old value. Multiplied by the 30% buff, Gu/Hu and Gu/Fi are now buffed 10% before Rare Mastery.

Old /Ra sub was 135% x 135% x 115% x 115% = 241%

New /Ra sub is 115% x 115% x 125% x 115% = 190%

/Ra sub is now 190% / 241% = 78.8% of the old value. Multiplied by the 30% buff, Gu/Ra is buffed 2.5%.

If you asked me, Gu/Ra is deader than it used to be. As for Br, since Br/Hu and Br/Fi never had a stance ring to nerf in the first place, they're hugely buffed. Given SB0 cannot give you Standing Snipe for a Last Nemesis followup, while Banish - SB0 - Nemesis is a straight TAJA all the way, Br/Fi feels much more consistent for Bow Br, or Br/Hu for Massive Automate.

[milranduil]

The "nerf" to stance ring was needed to offset the buffs to PAs. It's not even a nerf.

PA power on most Ranged PAs like Sat Aim went up from 724 to 942 = 30%

TMG Ring is 110% / 130% = 84.6% of old value. Multiplied by the 30% buff, Gu/Hu and Gu/Fi are now buffed 10% before Rare Mastery.

Old /Ra sub was 135% x 135% x 115% x 115% = 241%

New /Ra sub is 115% x 115% x 125% x 115% = 190%

/Ra sub is now 190% / 241% = 78.8% of the old value. Multiplied by the 30% buff, Gu/Ra is buffed 2.5%.

If you asked me, Gu/Ra is deader than it used to be. As for Br, since Br/Hu and Br/Fi never had a stance ring to nerf in the first place, they're hugely buffed. Given SB0 cannot give you Standing Snipe for a Last Nemesis followup, while Banish - SB0 - Nemesis is a straight TAJA all the way, Br/Fi feels much more consistent for Bow Br, or Br/Hu for Massive Automate.

8:30 gracia with gu/ra
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ_BwdL4Qq8
[/spoiler-box]

[Selphea]

8:30 gracia with gu/ra
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ_BwdL4Qq8
[/spoiler-box]

That's solo where self WB is an advantage :wacko:

[Raid_Hirsh]

Some classes, most notably BO Boots, HU Partizan/Sword and BR(both Bow and Katana) saw huge buffs that made them go towards the top.

Wait, what?! Bouncer's Jet Boots really got buffed that much?! I mean, I saw their list of buffs for the Sept. 27 balance patch, and it didn't seem that drastic compared to Gunners and Bravers (unless I'm missing something?).

Care to elaborate, please, Zephyrion? That portion of your comment has really left me very intrigued.

[Altiea]

Wait, what?! Bouncer's Jet Boots really got buffed that much?! I mean, I saw their list of buffs for the Sept. 27 balance patch, and it didn't seem that drastic compared to Gunners and Bravers (unless I'm missing something?).

Care to elaborate, please, Zephyrion? That portion of your comment has really left me very intrigued.

It's still mechanically clunky compared to the other melee classes, but the Boots buffs essentially amounts to a straight numbers and consistency buff, with an extra (yet desperately needed) speed buff for Vinto. It's a very plain buff, but the buff was substantial enough to put Boots in reasonable competition with most standard melee weapons (ignoring Fighter).

[Xaelouse]

Bouncer, and especially boots, are still as trash as they were before the patch. Since they offer nothing over hero and every other melee class also got mass buffs.

[milranduil]

Wait, what?! Bouncer's Jet Boots really got buffed that much?! I mean, I saw their list of buffs for the Sept. 27 balance patch, and it didn't seem that drastic compared to Gunners and Bravers (unless I'm missing something?).

Care to elaborate, please, Zephyrion? That portion of your comment has really left me very intrigued.

zeph jb only solo, video is moon phase
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww0HUspDDaY
[/spoiler-box]

solo pd jb only 5:20
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZaAxthGok
[/spoiler-box]

[Raid_Hirsh]

It's still mechanically clunky compared to the other melee classes, but the Boots buffs essentially amounts to a straight numbers and consistency buff, with an extra (yet desperately needed) speed buff for Vinto. It's a very plain buff, but the buff was substantial enough to put Boots in reasonable competition with most standard melee weapons (ignoring Fighter).

Interesting! Thanks for the insight, Altiea!

I haven't played Bouncers in a really long time, so I don't even know if Technic -> Technic -> Vinto Gue is still a viable bossing combo...

I'm pretty sure the meta game for Jet Boots has changed, post-Sept. 27 patch; therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Gran Wave -> Moment Gale (or Strike Gust) -> Vinto Gue is better now.

Edit: I just saw milranduil's post, so I'll check out the videos now~

[milranduil]

Interesting! Thanks for the insight, Altiea!

I haven't played Bouncers in a really long time, so I don't even know if Technic -> Technic -> Vinto Gue is still a viable bossing combo...

I'm pretty sure the meta game for Jet Boots has changed, post-Sept. 27 patch; therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Gran Wave -> Moment Gale (or Strike Gust) -> Vinto Gue is better now.

Edit: I just saw milranduil's post, so I'll check out the videos now~

basically it's tech -> few normals -> vinto

Bouncer, and especially boots, are still as trash as they were before the patch. Since they offer nothing over hero and every other melee class also got mass buffs.

yeah same
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCH7NNCCp4
[/spoiler-box]

[Xaelouse]

Those videos don't necessarily prove me wrong, and this is a multiplayer game.

[milranduil]

Those videos don't necessarily prove me wrong, and this is a multiplayer game.

how can you say bouncer is trash when it clears some of the hardest content in the game at the same speed as fi or hero?

[Raid_Hirsh]

basically it's tech -> few normals -> vinto

Awesome! Thanks for the info, milranduil~

[Agastya]

how can you say bouncer is trash when it clears some of the hardest content in the game at the same speed as fi or hero?

if you ignore evidence that proves you wrong then it disappears!


---

anyway bow is fun
torrential arrow is usable now and thats all i really ever wanted

[Xaelouse]

how can you say bouncer is trash when it clears some of the hardest content in the game at the same speed as fi or hero?

Because other things got buffed that already outclassed Bouncer pre-patch, which doesn't make any of their buffs special in the slightest. It is still "that other melee class that still comes close to FI and HR sometimes" yet matches them in no way, offers no useful utility in majority of the quests, and still has to match element to not lose a chunk of damage.

And the difficulty of this game has definitely lessened after that patch with damage boosts across the board, so standards should be much higher as well. 5 min solo PD and being a second away from timing out on zephyros is whatever now. Flow of fights in multiparty is faster now, so even the speed boost on vinto is not enough. Barely any mid-range presence, mobbing PAs/combos that brightness end/divine launcher can outpace with ease, and movement PAs are still sorta clunky. Also, shit bursting ability compared to BBow and less flexible compared Hero sword WA (another melee weapon). It just simply loses to a lot of things while offering nothing in return. The patch did not help the class's situation at all, it just cemented it as a mediocre class that's only fun to play.

An average Hero is still more respectable than a good Bouncer because the former at least have a lot more room to improve and contribute better to MPAs.

[GHNeko]

None of that says that Bo or JB is trash. :wacko:

It does say that JB/BO is on the lower end of the bell curve but as far as I know, still being able to beat some of the hardest content in the game solo is a good disqualifier for being trash. :wacko:

[Zephyrion]

Because other things got buffed that already outclassed Bouncer pre-patch, which doesn't make any of their buffs special in the slightest. It is still "that other melee class that still comes close to FI and HR sometimes" yet matches them in no way, offers no useful utility in majority of the quests, and still has to match element to not lose a chunk of damage.

And the difficulty of this game has definitely lessened after that patch with damage boosts across the board, so standards should be much higher as well. 5 min solo PD and being a second away from timing out on zephyros is whatever now. Flow of fights in multiparty is faster now, so even the speed boost on vinto is not enough. Barely any mid-range presence, mobbing PAs/combos that brightness end/divine launcher can outpace with ease, and movement PAs are still sorta clunky. Also, shit bursting ability compared to BBow and less flexible compared Hero sword WA (another melee weapon). It just simply loses to a lot of things while offering nothing in return. The patch did not help the class's situation at all, it just cemented it as a mediocre class that's only fun to play.

An average Hero is still more respectable than a good Bouncer because the former at least have a lot more room to improve and contribute better to MPAs.

Huh you do know every class is not utterly perfect right ? I'm going to ask for Hero to get WB and Shifta strike then since they can"t do it, if we follow that kind of line. Comparing anything to the stupidity of Sword WA and Brightness is already a problem since Hero is still a thing of its own.

The point of the buffs wasn't to make BO OP, it was to make BO stronger and more consistent to finally get on par with other "normals" melee classes, and it did its job. Bo has nothing to envy Braver or Hunter, and that's a good thing already.

To be honest the only issue I find with BO atm is the clunkiness of stance switching and actives, and remember that is going away in 2 weeks, meaning that BO will finally be able to flow properly and be inside the mpa instead of trailing behind while activating stuff

[Xaelouse]

If a class has zero niches and doesn't even excel in anything, then it's just simply a bad class. There's no other way to put it, no matter how much better it feels to play. Hello? This was why the class was trash pre-patch too. At least some other old classes have things that Hero doesn't.
With Sega's current philosophy, there will be more bad classes in the future anyway.

[Zorak000]

ok; nobody is saying you have to play bouncer now. just that the people who liked bouncer and were good at it can play it without falling behind (or at least, can keep up for the most part)

[Xaelouse]

Do whatever, just don't lie to people that it's even a good class right now or you're good for playing it. It is still a landmine.

[Altiea]

Do whatever, just don't lie to people that it's even a good class right now or you're good for playing it. It is still a landmine.

So do you just like, really hate Bouncer or something?

[Agastya]

i heard a bouncer entered their mpa and broke the drop crystal before they could put on their lucky rise units and umbla stick, lighting the fire for a deep, dark hatred to burn with the intensity of a thousand suns

(don't try holding a debate with people that ignore facts, just ignore them and talk to people that actually have useful things to contribute)

[maoulizbeth]

If a class has zero niches and doesn't even excel in anything, then it's just simply a bad class. There's no other way to put it, no matter how much better it feels to play. Hello? This was why the class was trash pre-patch too. At least some other old classes have things that Hero doesn't.
With Sega's current philosophy, there will be more bad classes in the future anyway.

it keeps up with the top clases with the ability to boss efficiently so what exactly makes the class bad
its okay if you're bad at the class but when youve been shown it can do things that the others can how do you even justify your 'ITS BAD'
i just want to understand how your brain works

[Xaelouse]

If the best the class can do is place 4th to 5th in everything, then yeah, it is bad. I've been keeping track of every dumbass vid of their gameplay and been comparing it to everything else for the sake of balance ever since that patch hit, as well as from my own experience. It honestly isn't logical to try to master mediocrity instead of something actually good besides for fun (if that's what you derive fun from).

I am also not the only person that thinks this.

[DavidAG]

Friendly reminder that we're playing a game. Games are supposed to be fun.
EDIT: Also wanted to say we're playing a completely PvE game where anyone can solo anything with any class.
If you arent playing "for fun" in this game then what the hell are you doing here.

[Altiea]

If the best the class can do is place 4th to 5th in everything, then yeah, it is bad. I've been keeping track of every dumbass vid of their gameplay and been comparing it to everything else for the sake of balance ever since that patch hit, as well as from my own experience. It honestly isn't logical to try to master mediocrity instead of something actually good besides for fun (if that's what you derive fun from).

I am also not the only person that thinks this.

Just because X isn't as good as Y doesn't mean X is automatically trash. It just means that X isn't as good as Y. If "not the best" is the same as being trash for you, then by all means, go ahead.

I'm not going to refute that FI, GU, or HR are significantly better than BO. But I will state that BO is fast closing the power gap compared to before the balance patch.

[LancerFate]

What i don't get why push your opinion so hard on others. It's fine if you dislike some classes for whatever reason, while like others classes and vice versa.

[Xaelouse]

When there's a limited number of slots in a MPA, then it is perfectly fine to consider things without the necessary tools, damage, and speed as trash. This isn't anything new.

[Zorak000]

this game isn't competitive outside of stuff like the weekly time attack rankings. and even then time attack builds employ a number of strange gimmicks that don't transition well to 12-player content.
being 4th or 5th is ok, just as long as people aren't timing out on grazia or something


anyway as for the "haha its just a game lol XD" thing, some people have fun by trying to be the best! wow!
I guess really, all I am saying, is that there is a difference between "not the best" and "you cannot even clear the content (in a reasonable amount of time)", and more of us are focused on the latter than the former I guess.

EDIT: well if mpa slots are a concern, you I hope you got a decent team going that works with you to get private mpas going I guess

[Xaelouse]

That kind of leniency with things is what's been ruining the game for years, in terms of content and the strange decisions that have been taking place.

[DavidAG]

I myself have fun trying to be the best too. What I mean is I dont go as far as going to a forum just to bitch about how bad a class is with any criticism other than bitching, and even less if there's people proving me wrong.

Anyways, ponthi (i dont think his videos are "dumbass") can solo ultimate amduscia with bouncer in just 20 more seconds than what it takes him to do it with hero, which means bouncer is not as bad as you think.

[KaizoKage]

friendly reminder: Don't feed trolls. Just treat them like they don't exist and they'll slowly go back to their cave.

anyways, is DB Bo good now? I tried it the other day but it still feels.....weak.... aside from normals cause that clearly got buffed. But the overall gameplay seems somewhat the same from before.

[Altiea]

That kind of leniency with things is what's been ruining the game for years, in terms of content and the strange decisions that have been taking place.

From what I'm understanding, you seem to either want:
1. Difficult content that pigeonholes people into certain class selections, or
2. Make every class equally viable by giving each class a niche.

[Zorak000]

if they ever figure out a way to make mpa composition enforceable then I'll be all for content that demands it, but they cant exactly do that with the Emergency Quest format; they learned their lesson with magatsu

like imagine queuing up for magatsu, and never even getting to run it before it goes away because a ranger never queued up and got matched with your mpa in that half hour

EDIT: re: dual blades, it looks like most of the buffs with them involved increasing gear generation; I assume they want people to be throwing blades more often, even outside of blade fever; that or to help build gear quickly during blade fever. I thought somebody posted a dual blade run of ult amdu in here somewhere. they buffed dispersion shrike, so I guess that helps it out in crowds more

[Agastya]

db also has significantly better PP regeneration now due to numbers on dppr going up to 5 and not 3, 6pp per blade is ludicrous

if youre using the 14* DB then you get 5pp back per target hit by the bolt as well, which frankly i find hilarious (8 if in eppr)

[maoulizbeth]

If the best the class can do is place 4th to 5th in everything, then yeah, it is bad. I've been keeping track of every dumbass vid of their gameplay and been comparing it to everything else for the sake of balance ever since that patch hit, as well as from my own experience. It honestly isn't logical to try to master mediocrity instead of something actually good besides for fun (if that's what you derive fun from).

I am also not the only person that thinks this.


i mean it seems like you can't master bouncer, oh dear ^^;

[Zorak000]

really, I would be less concerned with the person who knows how to play bonucer well enough to solo ult amdu quickly, and more concerned with your average pubbie that spends their entire pp bar on a single rising slash, then uses sword basic attacks until they are full on pp again

[Selphea]

friendly reminder: Don't feed trolls. Just treat them like they don't exist and they'll slowly go back to their cave.

anyways, is DB Bo good now? I tried it the other day but it still feels.....weak.... aside from normals cause that clearly got buffed. But the overall gameplay seems somewhat the same from before.

Damage-wise, it's average right now. Not Hero or Fighter, but not Techer or Summoner either. Mechanically, you need a rainbow set to be average, and manage cooldowns and Gear with Kestrel 0 and don't have much ranged outside of blade throw. Of course, you could go single weapon and be below average if you want too. So...

Playable and viable? Yes
Troublesome? Yes
Fun? You need to decide for yourself.

[Kondibon]

So a thought crossed my mind. even thought they're going to make stances function as single skills, they might not actually BECOME single skills. The change might just be for the convenience of only needing one subpallet slot.

[Anduril]

So a thought crossed my mind. even thought they're going to make stances function as single skills, they might not actually BECOME single skills. The change might just be for the convenience of only needing one subpallet slot.

That's what I assume as well since there doesn't seem to be any mention of combining them into a single skill, just that they are making them into a passive/active pair. I doubt they would do anything that could potentially save 15-20SP per class that this effects.

[GHNeko]

Damage-wise, it's average right now. Not Hero or Fighter, but not Techer or Summoner either. Mechanically, you need a rainbow set to be average, and manage cooldowns and Gear with Kestrel 0 and don't have much ranged outside of blade throw. Of course, you could go single weapon and be below average if you want too. So...

Playable and viable? Yes
Troublesome? Yes
Fun? You need to decide for yourself.

Basically this.

While I don't agree completely with Xaelouse; he basically does have a point that Bo doesnt really have anything that makes it stand out in a noticable fashion.

It doesnt outsupport Te with its fields and JB-Shift actions.
It doesnt outdamage Fi or Hu or Gu with PBF, Krestral, and Vinto.
It doesnt outcast Fo with JB casting.
It doesnt outmob Br with moment gale or shrike.

It just does a bunch of things at an acceptable level.

But like Selphea said, you have to deal with everything that Bo is made up with to even reach that theoretical level of average performance in the first place.

Rainbow Set DB for max consistency when it comes to damage.
Stance Dance for optimal damage in the odd situations where breakables come into play.
The need to feed your JB gear with techs just to reach max vinto damage.
The need to constantly upkeep shifta and deband for max pp regeneration and damage to offset the PP-Hungry costs of its PAs and really, really mediocre general multipliers that arent tied to weapon specific actives/multis.

The list goes on. The class is very clunky. It's a lot of work for so-so rewards compared to the likes of BrHu and FiHu and Hr.

Personally, I think that FiBo is significantly better than BoHu for a handful of reasons. :wacko:
Most notably, you basically lose nothing by subbing Bo and gain 2 huge multipliers by maining Fi. Losing main class boost and losing Break Stance D Bonus is nothing.

So no, I dont think that Bo is garbage/trash, but I do feel like it doesnt really offer anything stand out and that's prob why Xaelouse thinks its trash in the first place.

As far as I know, I've never seen anyone get upset over the lack of Bo in their MPA.

[Zorak000]

man if my ledran bursts dealing 40-60k per hit is below average then idk what is good even

hits for more on super weakpoints like golem heads

[Cyclon]

Personally, I think that FiBo is significantly better than BoHu for a handful of reasons. :wacko:
Most notably, you basically lose nothing by subbing Bo and gain 2 huge multipliers by maining Fi. Losing main class boost and losing Break Stance D Bonus is nothing.
I wonder, actually. Main class is + 21% these days. Also Fi main hinders your ability to use both weapons unless you have a pure DEX mag(and live in the future) since J boots strike is main class... Hu tree also has better utility stuff.

EDIT: Never mind, rare mastery isn't for main class weapon types only. Old misconception of mine probably.

[Tunga]

Does anyone not take cost into account with bo. A hero will make do with a good sword and shit tmg/talis for utility. A fi, hu and br only need one of each class wep. Meanwhile our stripclub guard needs multiple dual blades to not lose dmg and a pair of heels and it still loses dmg when more than two element weakness appear at one time (and lets not talk about changing weapon everytime the element changes). You essentially pay more (both meseta and time) for less. Srs go play braver, its better and less of a hassle.

Also, id like to see if a similar result was achieved in a quest with more than one element, lets say the special lqs.

[MightyHarken]

Only thing I don´t get is why ranger got nerfed in DPS vs bosses. Used to deal around 31k per tick using parallel slider vs a rock bear (With WB mark). Now it went down to 21k. The effectiveness to mobbing was increased overall by 50% i´d say though.

I just think the -40% damage from weak hit adv was too much. Should be tweaked up from 15% to 25% per skill.

[GHNeko]

I wonder, actually. Main class is + 21% these days. Also Fi main hinders your ability to use both weapons unless you have a pure DEX mag(and live in the future) since J boots strike is main class... Hu tree also has better utility stuff.

EDIT: Never mind, rare mastery isn't for main class weapon types only. Old misconception of mine probably.

You can use Fi weapons as back up weapons if you feel JBs wont cut it. A light FI weapon covers a super majority of the situations you would need a back up weapon for DB.

I personally carry around JBs because I like the weapon but real talk; just carry around a DS as FiBo and your fine.

And yeah it's only 1.1x for main class thank god.


EDIT: And yeah, Hu sub has utility, but I dont feel like its super necessary considering Technics.

[milranduil]

Only thing I don´t get is why ranger got nerfed in DPS vs bosses. Used to deal around 31k per tick using parallel slider vs a rock bear (With WB mark). Now it went down to 21k. The effectiveness to mobbing was increased overall by 50% i´d say though.

I just think the -40% damage from weak hit adv was too much. Should be tweaked up from 15% to 25% per skill.

not sure how thats possible when the craft was buffed 77%

[ZerotakerZX]

You can use Fi weapons as back up weapons if you feel JBs wont cut it. A light FI weapon covers a super majority of the situations you would need a back up weapon for DB.

I personally carry around JBs because I like the weapon but real talk; just carry around a DS as FiBo and your fine.

And yeah it's only 1.1x for main class thank god.


EDIT: And yeah, Hu sub has utility, but I dont feel like its super necessary considering Technics.Fi... bo? Sounds super weird. How does it work?

[Altiea]

Fi... bo? Sounds super weird. How does it work?

As far as I recall, FI/BO differentiates itself from BO/HU by actually using Techs offensively with Boots. It also get LB burst as per the norm and Critical Field-augmented Crit Strike. Its weaknesses are a lack of good compatible Boots (best option is Placis Arion) and you lose access to Switch Strike, which forces you to spec into T-ATK.

[GHNeko]

Fi... bo? Sounds super weird. How does it work?

Grab DBs

Pop LB

Pop Crit Field for 100% Crit Rate

PA 1 > TAJA PA2

????

Profit!

It used to be the main way to play bouncer before Sega freaked and then nerfed Fi/X almost into non-existance for a while.

Then they went and made Astral Blaze which has been the best (and only way without going through es) to play FiBo for almost a year while also just being really solid DBs period.

Even after 13* crafting comes, I still think Astral Blaze will be the best; if not one of the best weapons for FiBo. :wacko:


As far as I recall, FI/BO differentiates itself from BO/HU by actually using Techs offensively with Boots. It also get LB burst as per the norm and Critical Field-augmented Crit Strike.


FiBo JB is one way to play, though in today's PSO2; it's probably best to play FiBo DB.

Though you can play both JB and DB on FiBo, the affixes used are completely different so one will be gimped when the other isnt. :wacko:

[Selphea]

not sure how thats possible when the craft was buffed 77%

Probably referring to the 255% to 20% WB nerf?

[Dark Mits]

If a class has zero niches and doesn't even excel in anything, then it's just simply a bad class. There's no other way to put it, no matter how much better it feels to play. Hello? This was why the class was trash pre-patch too. At least some other old classes have things that Hero doesn't.
With Sega's current philosophy, there will be more bad classes in the future anyway.Suppose a class has a niche then:
a) if even a single part of the game requires that niche to achieve a good score, then that class becomes mandatory and ruins the fun for everyone else at that part.
b) if no part of the game requires that niche, then it's a useless niche.


Just because X isn't as good as Y doesn't mean X is automatically trash. It just means that X isn't as good as Y. If "not the best" is the same as being trash for you, then by all means, go ahead.This is both true and false, and it's entirely subjective. If the difference between X and Y is say 5%, then the lesser one isn't trash (imo). But if the difference is like 50%, then obviously playing the lesser one is done either due to wanting a challenge, due to trying to accomplish something hard, or due to player indifference/ignorance. But the general mentality is that "if something is not the absolute best, it's trash", and it is evident in every single online game I've played, PvE or PvP.


anyway as for the "haha its just a game lol XD" thing, some people have fun by trying to be the best! wow!
People who want to be the best play what the best is regardless if it suits them or not. And it's up to the developer to ensure that there are multiple ways to achieve that "best".

[Keilyn]

PSO-2 was advertised as an online RPG, however, it became an extreme hack and slash game long ago.
The concept of making difficulty levels where monsters gain more attack power, but each become damage tanks in their own way is a standard in the action genre.

The meta then deals with stacking as much DPS as possible to force bosses and enemies to be annihilated before they gain enough time in their phases to play their strongest attack. Even if they do throw it, there are counters to them in some form. When all else fails there are moon atomizers. Unfortunately, the developer has not shown any signs that they know how to balance a 12 man run, let alone a 4 man run.

Its like if SEGA creates events with very low DPS Checks in mind, and the players manage to beat the DPS check by a factor of 2 - 5x.

I can't even see what the boundaries are in PSO-2.
However, I can see the boundaries very clearly when running 4 man, 8 man, or 24 man raids in FF XIV.
But hey, people like free games and they get what they pay for. :P

[Zorak000]

at it's roots, pso1 was designed as a Diablo clone, and most of that still holds true today

[Altiea]

But hey, people like free games and they get what they pay for. :P

Wait, hold on. This statement makes like, no sense. There are good F2P games and bad paid subscription games. This is like saying the entire subgenre of F2P MMOs is bad because you don't pay to play.

Also, remember the last time they made an actually difficult DPS check? People got frustrated and complained because they weren't getting the rewards for the time they put into it, so they nerfed it. This would otherwise not be a problem if it wasn't time-limited content, but since it's time-limited content...

[tsundere4you]

I can't even see what the boundaries are in PSO-2.
However, I can see the boundaries very clearly when running 4 man, 8 man, or 24 man raids in FF XIV.
But hey, people like free games and they get what they pay for. :P

You can see the boundaries clearly in FFXIV because there is one and only one way to play each DPS class. You learn your rotation and use it against every single fight in the game which is what allows them to tune DPS checks perfectly. There's also zero meaningful gear customisation available with obvious best in slot items that are used for all fights. The game offers players no choices in gear or playstyle in order to achieve the balance it has. It's closer to a rhythm game than an RPG with all the memorisation needed to succeed in fights.

That game also has two sets of content designed for casual and hardcore players. PSO2 up until now has never tried to split content between two player bases of differing skill levels. Every single bit of content has tried to please everyone at once, meaning all DPS checks and difficulty have been aimed at the casual playerbase so they don't fail runs but is easily broken by the hardcore players in the group. Only recently have they finally decided to create content for "powerful players" so we'll see how that goes.

[Cyclon]

at it's roots, pso1 was designed as a Diablo clone, and most of that still holds true today
Officially so?

[isCasted]

snip

Gee, you finally realised that PSO2 is a unique game with its own priorities and not a copycat of literally every other MMO ever? Sure, it has plenty of flaws, but people keep playing precisely because it fills an otherwise empty niche, not because it's "free" (and most of those flaws appeared because the niche wasn't actually explored properly until PSO2). Ever since PSO1 Phantasy Stars have consistently increased player's control over battles. There weren't even any cooldown-based skills up until PSO2, and in most of other """skill-based""" """action""" RPGs it's just stat crunching and cooldown management. Even then, in PSO2 cooldown-based skills are a temporary utility and not the direct way of fighting.

There's this thing in games called "depth". Skill discrepancy between players is caused by that. PSO2 doesn't need to have 40 classes, a player can be satisfied with one class for years because the player himself can change the way he plays. He can improve his playstyle by testing different PA combos against different enemies and seeing which ones are more effective. Occasional balance changes, new enemy types, new weapons and armor affect that process too, and that's how the RPG part of the game enhances the action experience.

Things like, say, sub-10-minute solo Amduscia UQ runs are not unbalanced. In most other MMORPGs such things are either completely impossible or just unimpressive because it's all about getting your gear, which is all about time and luck. In PSO2 it's not enough, you have to plan all of your shit to a tee execute it, knowing full well your own capabilities, and then put effort into execution by paying attention at everything in every single moment. SEGA may have not realized the full potential of the game yet (though, I'm sure they're getting there... Slowly, but surely), but that's just the nature of pioneering in new directions.

[MightyHarken]

I played Diablo and honestly. I don´t find how it even resembles one bit PSO1. For me PSO1 holds itself as one of the best arpgs I´ve played. I do wish there was an implementation of many mechanics from pso1 into pso2. Like how everything raped you in pso1 at the beginning of the game. and raped you again when you reached ultimate.

PSO2 went the wrong way by replacing ultimate mode with ultimate quests. Since ultimate mode would have enhanced the solo experience of doing daily orders or just runs for fun. Instead of running in circles in one area with the aid of 11 other players. Now it feels good to solo UQ, but it also feels like you´re just killing time.

[Altiea]

I played Diablo and honestly. I don´t find how it even resembles one bit PSO1. For me PSO1 holds itself as one of the best arpgs I´ve played. I do wish there was an implementation of many mechanics from pso1 into pso2. Like how everything raped you in pso1 at the beginning of the game. and raped you again when you reached ultimate.

PSO2 went the wrong way by replacing ultimate mode with ultimate quests. Since ultimate mode would have enhanced the solo experience of doing daily orders or just runs for fun. Instead of running in circles in one area with the aid of 11 other players. Now it feels good to solo UQ, but it also feels like you´re just killing time.

I mean, there's Phantasy Star Nova and the Lv. 101+ post game, which essentially boiled down to combating mooks with like, 3,000,000+ hit points and insane stats that can two-shot you and fighting bosses that have like, almost literally 100,000,000 HP.

[MightyHarken]

Sounds good. Too bad this game never got ported to the west. And Im not gonna bother with it in japanese, lol. PSO2 is enough jp struggle.

[Zorak000]

Yeah I think the story was that Isao Okawa felt online gaming was the future, so he got sonic team to start work on an online multiplayer game. they looked around the industry at the time and liked what they saw from diablo, so they based a chunk of the core gameplay off of that, but went for a sci-fi setting; then a young Dragon Sakai wanted to put a dragon in it, then somebody else was all "didnt we have an IP that did sci-fi / fantasy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online#Development at least that's what I can gather from here

Okawa personally paid for a year of 2001 Japanese Internet bills for everybody who bought the game; so it's super messed up that he died like three months after PSO came out, wonder where these games would be if he was still around

[Altiea]

Sounds good. Too bad this game never got ported to the west. And Im not gonna bother with it in japanese, lol. PSO2 is enough jp struggle.

There's an English patch for Nova.

[ZerotakerZX]

There's an English patch for Nova.
how complete is it currently, do you know? i kinda finished the game, but missed most of the story

[Altiea]

how complete is it currently, do you know? i kinda finished the game, but missed most of the story

I don't know the status on the patch, since I don't use it, but the ARKS Layer site for the patch (http://arks-layer.com/nova.php) has some screenshots showing it off.

[Cyclon]

Yeah I think the story was that Isao Okawa felt online gaming was the future, so he got sonic team to start work on an online multiplayer game. they looked around the industry at the time and liked what they saw from diablo, so they based a chunk of the core gameplay off of that, but went for a sci-fi setting; then a young Dragon Sakai wanted to put a dragon in it, then somebody else was all "didnt we have an IP that did sci-fi / fantasy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online#Development at least that's what I can gather from here

Okawa personally paid for a year of 2001 Japanese Internet bills for everybody who bought the game; so it's super messed up that he died like three months after PSO came out, wonder where these games would be if he was still around
I think I had heard the inspiration story before. And it's true that superficially, the games are similar with their random loot based progression and successive areas with stronger and stronger enemies culminating into a boss battle(though old school dungeon crawlers did it first, or other video games in general really). You could say the central hub with everything you need including quests, optional or not, and classes based character creation hail from there too, I suppose, but even that is fairly common in dungeon crawlers.
You speak of core gameplay though, and I think it's fair to affirm that's where the two differ most, as they play nothing alike. Which I'd say weighs the most when you're considering what's a clone of what. Not like it really matters though.

Okawa seemed like a peculiar man. The amount of money he reportedly just threw at Sega and the Dreamcast is surprising to say the least. From my understanding, most people at least keep it in the family; then again, maybe he had none left.