Is SEGA being desperate now?

[AirinMikune]

First they gave a 25% NT exp/ 5% affix rate for a week.
100% drop rate on Buster
Now 100% EXP/RDR on all quest + extra multiplier on certain quest.

Almost every 2 hour EQ scheduled.

It feels like they are trying to do anything to bring back the players, even introducing this 'more challenging' EQ by boosting it's attack to absurd amounts which for me is not fun at all when you die almost in one hit and it takes twice as long to kill the boss.

The last PSO2 station was luck luster and nothing new introduced aside from the EQ'd buster quest (which buster is already boring to begin with) and a limited free field, which should had been staple with every new EP.

I wonder how they effed up so bad with EP5 and if ever they can recover from it.

[final_attack]

Well, boosting Atk/HP might means we're becoming guinea pig for their next extra-hard-content-for-pro content thingy ......
+100% might not be so bad, as long as you didn't abandon defense completely ..... at least no 1HKO (except for some attacks) as long as people use fully grinded units, should be ok.
+200% from that Boosted Deus is really bad imo.

Extra drop rate / affix rate is a welcome imo, considering ..... it means less time filling CF, making things easier for new players or players that really busy irl to catch up too.

[SteveCZ]

First they gave a 25% NT exp/ 5% affix rate for a week. ...

The 5% affix rate (and 25% NT exp whatever boost) always happen this month of the year, along with game play related scratch. This happens twice a year. the 10% affix rate as well, twice a year. So these ones have no relation to the other boosts campaign.

[AirinMikune]

I know boost happens every now and then but for a good reason, like when it was golden week, PSO2 anniversary or PSO4/ES anniversary and what not.

The recent one just appears to be out of nowhere. Even introduced the increased 5% every Tuesday or so.

They even have to revive the old Falz as they have been just rotating the EP4 EQ for almost two months now.

[Kintama]

It feels to me too that they are, however i do not believe that handing out rares like candy is the solution.

Just, give out content, and please, NOT gated/locked content, i want no timers, no points limit, and for the love of Matoi STOP WITH THE BQ MEME BQ IS TRASH.

And done.

[GHNeko]

I, for one, welcome our new boosted overlords.

[Kintama]

I, for one, welcome our new boosted overlords.

Too bad they aren't here to stay, because sega logic

[Xaelouse]

I thought it was just a week of celebration before everyone gets forced into turning into gorillas.

[FantasyHeaven]

This game feels like a bunch of games in one with a complete lack of direction and dead flavor of the month modes scattered all around. They really should have dropped it around ep4 and started on pso3.

[Arada]

Ultimate Amduscia feels like Ultimate, finally.

The boost on Profound Invasion is very welcome too.

I like both, I want more.

[LancerFate]

Ultimate Amduscia feels like Ultimate, finally.

The boost on Profound Invasion is very welcome too.

I like both, I want more.

Agree good idea, old content becomes more challenging + they added new loot.

[Masu]

In all honesty I find those buffed Falz more than welcome. I always liked Profund Invasion but not how ludicrously fast they were rekt (post Hr era btw). While playing Hero for PI, it is pretty what kind of content we should get for such class. On the other hand I partied with a friend who played Fo/Te and it was less fun for him. So I guess it's still as before, depending which class you play you will get strole in a park or Hell on Earth.

Buffed Gracia on the other hand was...ludicrously buffed to say the least :v

UQ Ambduscia, can't really tell. Last runs I did before buff was with friends (4/12). So for a 12/12 run it feel same to me. I might change my opinion once I run it as Fo/Fi =p

Also I agree about the fact it is suspicious to have this kind of event coming out from nowhere. I still can't believe Sega did not forsee that BQ as the main EP5 content will makes people quickly bored and that Hero will makes people swear at them making other class "obsolete". They seem gud tearing down playerbase's money but very bad at understanding what game content they expect...which is sad for a (pretty old) game company. I still love you Sega xD

[Zyrusticae]

This game feels like a bunch of games in one with a complete lack of direction and dead flavor of the month modes scattered all around. They really should have dropped it around ep4 and started on pso3.
They've likely already started on a PSO3, but if they have, it's likely targeted for the next generation of hardware (PS5/XB2). Just the impression I get from the rather minimal amount of actually new gameplay content this time around.

[Arada]

Also I agree about the fact it is suspicious to have this kind of event coming out from nowhere. I still can't believe Sega did not forsee that BQ as the main EP5 content will makes people quickly bored and that Hero will makes people swear at them making other class "obsolete". They seem gud tearing down playerbase's money but very bad at understanding what game content they expect...which is sad for a (pretty old) game company. I still love you Sega xD

I don't believe it's an event, it's more like a test.
They want to put harder difficulty but since it seems they finally realized they can't balance the game, they're testing it out live. And since they need as much data as they can, they also threw a boost at us to get as many players going as they can.
It's not like the game is populated currently so they really need to give people reasons to come.

[Masu]

I don't believe it's an event, it's more like a test.
They want to put harder difficulty but since it seems they finally realized they can't balance the game, they're testing it out live. And since they need as much data as they can, they also threw a boost at us to get as many players going as they can.
It's not like the game is populated currently so they really need to give people reasons to come.
Sounds good to me if that's what they're really doing right now... far more precious data to get than which gender and what boobs size used by players Itsy bittsy troll inside ^^"

[isCasted]

Desperate or not, I'm having fun with the update. If this event is a testing ground, then it's a sign of good things to come. I greatly prefer having SEGA give proper respect to old, good content that was left behind, than have a million updates that add random chances of something different happening in the garbage that is BQ. This event made me remember why I loved this game in the first place, and I'm glad to experience those things anew with modern balance improvements. Shame it's limited time (for now), but it's really about time we got a new difficulty.

Also, delete Deus from the game.

[AlphaBlob]

This is how raid boss should feel like, what's fun in rushing through a boss in few minutes? To be honest if they introduce a new difficulty they should have a death limit per user as well.

[Zephyrion]

They've likely already started on a PSO3, but if they have, it's likely targeted for the next generation of hardware (PS5/XB2). Just the impression I get from the rather minimal amount of actually new gameplay content this time around.

I think it's mostly an impression though since SEGA actually did what it always did at the start of an Episode : Throw a quest around, and use the few (or several) months after it to prepare for future raids and kick up a notch for new content (which is further proven by all the crap on the roadmap)
Sadly for them, while Shironia and Tokyo overall satisfied the players, BQ did not. And if players don't run BQ, it's pretty much as if they didn't add anything, hence why it feels empty

Given how I personally disliked Tokyo map and the start of the story, start of EP4 felt far more empty than EP5 to me

[Enforcer MKV]

I think it's mostly an impression though since SEGA actually did what it always did at the start of an Episode : Throw a quest around, and use the few (or several) months after it to prepare for future raids and kick up a notch for new content (which is further proven by all the crap on the roadmap)
Sadly for them, while Shironia and Tokyo overall satisfied the players, BQ did not. And if players don't run BQ, it's pretty much as if they didn't add anything, hence why it feels empty

Given how I personally disliked Tokyo map and the start of the story, start of EP4 felt far more empty than EP5 to me

Yeah, that's the thing. Personally I'm one of the apparently few people that actually likes BQ, but several things kinda turned me off to it. Stamina limits, hero trouncing everything while I have absolutely zero interest in the class. The way it was broke up into free and other matches with seperate drop tables, that sorta thing. It shouldn't have been the only thing this episode, thats for sure. A lot of people disliked it, and thats reeeeally bad when its all you've got.

[MightyHarken]

Bad? I did Profound invasion and I felt like when I was in ep1-2 where bosses were challenging and content was balanced and favored the enemies instead of the players. This was a good thing, and it should remain like it is now. People bitching about this should honestly quit the game or play in SH mode.

[nguuuquaaa]

Bring back +200% atk Deus, or any boss with that kind of damage please.
I'd rather do 100 runs and succeed a few than succeed 100 SH-tier raid quests.

[Great Pan]

Bring back +200% atk Deus, or any boss with that kind of damage please.
I'd rather do 100 runs and succeed a few than succeed 100 SH-tier raid quests.

What? This is a Dress-up game! There shouldn't be any tough challenges in this game!

[AirinMikune]

I am okay with the old falz as their attacks are pretty much telegraphed, I hated Deus though, I felt like the extra attack is't warranted that almost all this hits kills you in one shot, not to mention all the random things happening in the map at once there are times that you can't dodge them all.

[Zorak000]

The boosted rare rates feel more like they are here to help me get a hold of more Astral Soul and Sentence Power/Shoot/Tech SAF fodder than anything; It'll help out some newer people get some gear closer to what I'm running around with now too. the content itself is refreshing, while I ran ult amdu until I was sick of it back during gix files, now it almost feels somewhat nostalgic. being able to see more of Elder and Loser's attack patterns without needing to go down in difficulty or attempt a solo run is also nice.

if anything I'm appreciating them looking back at all the stuff they have left in the dust and at least doing something with it all

[starwind75043]

I don't believe it's an event, it's more like a test.
They want to put harder difficulty but since it seems they finally realized they can't balance the game, they're testing it out live. And since they need as much data as they can, they also threw a boost at us to get as many players going as they can.
It's not like the game is populated currently so they really need to give people reasons to come.

Yeah, I agree with the test premises with all the new balance and Hero It definitely feels like was being asked to test something.

I like BQ cause towers are soft. Sudden tower Zerg that kills towers out of no were love that. It definitely punishes player Zerg. I always felt 12 men were way too many for some emergency quest.

Personally, I think part of the problem is we haven't had a new EQ in some time. The quest we have gotten have been very boring seasonal junk were you run around in circles and collect rewards at the end. Boss's I don't want to see for a very LONG time Gal Gryphon, Emperor Rappy needs to go back to being rare I don't care if you change his form to Saint Emperor Rappy, Valentines Emperor Rappy, white day Emperor Rappy. Falz Hunar, Double, Angel apprentice doppleganner dio Hunar, Iam just over them. Hoping Omega hunar is at least somewhat diffcult during the new eq.

Plus add in with these junk Seasonal eqs a couple of emergency maintenance I can see why people not feeling the pso2 love

[qoxolg]

As someone who is on a break from this game after 2 weeks of EP5 and have been on breaks from this regularly since EP3.

I have two main problems why I don’t feel like playing and it’s starting to get worse with each episode:

1. The entire game is rush rush rush rush! No time to enjoy anything because, rush rush rush rush. Not only has content become a complete bore fest because of the huge imbalance between players and enemies, but my main gripe is that all end game content is shorter then 15 minutes (most takes less). I was almost looking forward to the ARKS chronicles a few months back, but of course it needs to have a timer, because rush rush rush is fun right!? I’d rather have a variety of quests with different lengths. 15 minutes quests are fine for stuff like extreme quests, but at least also give us some bigger 30 minute, 1 hours quests, where you die a ton, but hey, maybe put in some checkpoints so it’s not a frustrating experience. Make enemies and bosses harder to kill, but increase the drop rates, so it’s fair to take longer. Also raids in PSO2 are a joke. It’s just a glorified boss fight that gets carried by the strong players. To me BQ’s are the accumulation of everything I hated put into one quest.

2. At end game everything is dripfeed deluxe. Every x month there is an x weapon you can get by playing x quest non stop, with other content having no incentive. And then I am not even getting started about how boring the weapons are that you get (wohoo 3% more damage). What PSO1 did better, was that the entirety of ultimate was your end game with a ton of different weapons you could hunt for. PSO2 is repeating the same content for two months for some boring ‘upgrade’.

besides these two main points there is the horrible balance between players and enemies.

I don’t think SEGA is gonna fix this, judging by the downward trend since EP3 for me.

[AirinMikune]

I think what ultimately killed PSO2 is a lack of choice.

Before you can tinker around a bunch of different class combination, massive burst but long cooldown? Gu/Su or Bo PBF, sustained dps we have them bravers. High risk high reward we have limit break fighters. Want to support but still contribute to damage, TE with zanverse and a tons more gimmicky class in between like Dragon Slayer sacrifice bite, form scythe TE, etc.

It was fun trying to experiment with different class combination.

On the equipment side, although not as diverse, people have a choice of either a weaker damage but always up potential of Austere, or PP recovery with orbit, maybe a risky but rewarding Gix, and so on.

At the end of EP 4 and start of EP 5, everyone is pigeonholed into one set up, Qliphad and Hero that if you don't have those two, you are gimping yourself.

Next we have BQ, I know we are beating a dead horse here but this mode sucks, gameplay wise it is a bit fun but the defense part is really bad, I wish it just happens once but the nail in the coffin for BQ is there is really no incentive in running it.

What you get is a somewhat decent weapon that...only works in the boring quest. It's a lose lose situation. People grind boring quest so they can earn something they can use but BQ does it really weird, you grind a boring mode to have a weapon that only works on the boring mode, might as well not do it then.

Add the fact that it is gated by annoying stamina system which you need to run a free mode that gives virtually nothing aside from wasting your time (i know it boost your next main match but I rather just do the main match twice and get more loots than alternating free and main).

Storywise, they make it appear that the 2D mode of the cutscene was an artistic choice but it just shows lack of budget and a rushed content. And why they heck is BQ a part of the story mode? To make it worse, you can't start it unless you have other players, who the hell thought it was a good idea? And...you get nothing at the end of it making it a mandatory waste of time.

I like the fact that Sega know they fucked up real good this time even trying to release the old class changes earlier than scheduled and while I am seeing a little bit of class variety now, I think its a little to late.

With Closers and Soulworker NA releasing by the end of the year, it is hard pressed to see if I could stay playing PSO2 at this point. It is just log in for EQ, log out at this point.

[Altiea]

Why are we talking about the game like it's dead? It's still very much alive.

[Zephyrion]

Wait...Am I the only one that sees what SEGA currently does in a good light ?

- Being fast at addressing balance issues (which NEVER happened, remember shunka, Magatsu disaster, Marron and others) Hero IS overpowered but it's the very first time they addressed it in a timely manner.
-I Personally find BQ very fun. It's really only really hindered by the Stamina System, but that's virtually gone in about one week, thanks to player feedback
-Only Evleda upgrades work on BQ only, normal Evleda is an awesome mobbing and utility weapon that works everywhere. The game gives you the choice for an upgrade if you actually ENJOY BQ and want a weap for it. Speaking of utility weapons, SEGA is releasing more of those these days, although they are mainly revolving around Hero (Evleda ofc, Bullet Kunai and Altacray). Friendly reminder that the whole of EP4 files, Fornis aside was "will x finally dethrone Austere or not". Newer weapons, instead of power creeping more, give you more variety, which I like
- 2D cutscenes being motivated by budget is assumed by SEGA, they had a choice between giving us a lot more cutscenes and events for Story mode content in exchange for 2D, or EP3-4 model, which animated all cutscenes, but to the price of having actually very few. While not a fan of the story itself, new characters and world are definitely more fleshed out than what we used to have, and I think it's a nice change.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all flowers and happiness, EP5 definitely already had a share of fuck-ups, and builds being killed only for Hero to be literally the best of the best left a sour taste, but it seems it's the very first time SEGA is actually addressing said fuck-ups in an elegant and timely manner. Be it out of desperation (which I'm not sure is even true, considering EP4 start was a literal desert until Yamato happened, and it didn't prevent them from not doing anything about it) or a change in mentality.

[SteveCZ]

I like the UQ and profound invasion boost. Feels so alive again. Especially they are for XH only, makes end-game feels worth it.

When was the last time you ever see Elder flips the board anyway in pug? Episode 2? Seems like some people in my ship (4) already forgot about it or new players never even have the chance to see that move they don't even have any idea how to deal with it. And that was great.

Honestly I don't mind if they keep upgrading the XH enemies in relation of better drops and players/weapons that get stronger, if no higher difficulty available yet.

I can only feel the maximum taste of Hero class like this. More than 4 Hero Time in a single EQ (can be more) is what it should be. I'm tired throwing Hero Time only on core weakpoint when the boss got stunned in 12 man mpa. I want to do it somewhere else as well if I could. This boost makes it worth it to use all kind of Hero Time.

I can only imagine what Dark Blast would feel like. Nothing but a dps race more than about fighting the enemy, if the contents stay as it is without the atk or hp boost and no new difficulty.

[Anduril]

When was the last time you ever see Elder flips the board anyway in pug? Episode 2? Seems like some people in my ship (4) already forgot about it or new players never even have the chance to see that move they don't even have any idea how to deal with it. And that was great.
Oh, lord, I loved seeing that again. I admit when I saw it I was kinda like "Holy crap, I forgot about this" and it actually ended up killing me because I forgot the actual safe spots (I thought I was in a safe position to attack his arms with my TMGs, but I was just on the outer edge of his butt). That first run of this boosted version, I ended up dying like 5 times, and they were all because I was so used to how easy the EQ normally is, and did not expect the beating the Falz could really dish out when they were at this level.

[Keilyn]

PSO-2 was the first time they decided to focus 100% in Japan.
Even with their SEA version which was left up to the Publisher (one big mess) to do almost what they please with it...
PSO-2 became successful in Japan due to the focus being primarily in Japan.

However, each major game in Japan (even those that are global like FF XIV) had major problems that kept people away.
PSO-2 is interesting as outside the classes, the major problems present themselves and change at times...
In other games, the major problem or obstruction is so large in one area that it requires an entire patch....

The Desperation Sega has is the fact that for the first time, other game developers have announced that they are patching up or addressing those weaknesses. For example..... The team who created FF XIV finally announced that they are announcing a fix for the housing shortage, especially after two players bought 28 houses in a server...but it will take a patch.

My opinion is that each developer wants to see just how much will come from a fix to their games as far as returning players and revenue. However, SEGA does not have a clear fix for their many problems, so their answer is to give players more of what has worked for them, while they work on solutions. SEGA is in a spot because although their game has major problems, it is a competing F2P game against P2P games in the area.

[Xaelouse]

Challenge mode was the last good content to happen to this game. It got people together, people had dedicated roles to fullfill during the quest, it was content that lasted 30 min-1 hour per attempt and it was all pretty intense for us at the time. I remember I used to trash it back then, but 2 years later I definitely appreciated what it tried to bring to the game. If it was a quest that was impossible for less than 8 people and involved our actual classes, it would've been better. Too bad that's probably asking for too much.

The combination of management incompetence and the playerbase's fixation on "racing" each other for kills/damage in everything killed much of the future for content, I think. Instead, Sega has just been encouraging that Kirito mentality, which lends them to make content that's utterly pathetic for any large amount of people and/or require very little in actual tactics.
It's amazing how much a 6x HP modifier alone can do for these old bosses, that's for sure.

There's a giant graveyard of good concepts inside most of the dead content. The potential of "infinite adventure" that free fields could bring is one that doesn't get taken advantage of, for example.
Ultimately, I just wish Sega would see what made that old content feel so wonderful in the first place.

[KaizoKage]

Oh, lord, I loved seeing that again. I admit when I saw it I was kinda like "Holy crap, I forgot about this" and it actually ended up killing me because I forgot the actual safe spots (I thought I was in a safe position to attack his arms with my TMGs, but I was just on the outer edge of his butt). That first run of this boosted version, I ended up dying like 5 times, and they were all because I was so used to how easy the EQ normally is, and did not expect the beating the Falz could really dish out when they were at this level.

lmao true, same as me, cause pre-boosted elder was more of: break arms >> elder flies back >> throws balls >> comes back >> dies for each and every EQ. Now the fight takes longer and when Elder flips the board I was running to one of the WRONG corners and died cause I forgot where actual safe spots are, I was like "Finally I died in Elder again, this is gonna be fun"

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I don't mind bosses not dying instantly to buffed players.

I have a problem with said bosses one-shotting with their normal attacks without Te buffs, and fodder enemies doing the same.

Fodder enemies becoming damage sponges is also extremely tedious.

Wish SEGA learned that by now.

[Saagonsa]

I don't mind bosses not dying instantly to buffed players.

I have a problem with said bosses one-shotting with their normal attacks without Te buffs, and fodder enemies doing the same.

Fodder enemies becoming damage sponges is also extremely tedious.

Wish SEGA learned that by now.

That's what happens when you build for attack and PP with no investment into HP at all. Personally I haven't been oneshot by anything during this boost so far (although I assume some Elder attacks could do it if not for the fact that they were so slow)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

That's what happens when you build for attack and PP with no investment into HP at all. Personally I haven't been oneshot by anything during this boost so far (although I assume some Elder attacks could do it if not for the fact that they were so slow)

Most people have as much HP as I do, which is a bit over ~1k.
I got tail slapped by those little tail dragons in ult amd for like 1.3k without deband cut. Anga does around the same with his tail wag, and random sonic booms without deband cut.

I'm inclined to say retarded damage scaling is the bigger problem here than me not investing into more HP affixes for the game's outlier.

Regular quick attacks shouldn't be hitting people for 1k+. There's other examples of silly damage that shouldn't even be.

Also, intentionally designing the game around the possibility of people affixing like Firesword at this stage is retarded, and just pisses on the investments of ALOT of people out of the blue. I don't expect them to make crap like this the norm, but it's hellishly annoying when they put out ill-thought out concepts like double enemy damage, or 90% heal cut with just about 0 consideration of... anything (that ff14 LQ was equally stupid and unfun after a few runs if you didn't have techs).

Enemy damage should be based against the average HP of level-capped players + the best unit sets the game has to offer. It's silly to design content based around the possibility of people having... lets say 1.5k+ HP when 90% of the population does not have that.

This is why I said just the added HP to bosses is fine because players got way stronger on average, but didn't get any more durable for at least the past year. Unit sets haven't given us any major bumps in HP since... crafted saiki, and austere 2-set.

[Saagonsa]

Most people have as much HP as I do, which is a bit over ~1k.
I got tail slapped by those little tail dragons in ult amd for like 1.3k without deband cut. Anga does around the same with his tail wag, and random sonic booms without deband cut.

I'm inclined to say retarded damage scaling is the bigger problem here than me not investing into more HP affixes for the game's outlier.

Regular quick attacks shouldn't be hitting people for 1k+. There's other examples of silly damage that shouldn't even be.

Also, intentionally designing the game around the possibility of people affixing like Firesword at this stage is retarded, and just pisses on the investments of ALOT of people out of the blue. I don't expect them to make crap like this the norm, but it's hellishly annoying when they put out ill-thought out concepts like double enemy damage, or 90% heal cut with just about 0 consideration of... anything (that ff14 LQ was equally stupid and unfun after a few runs if you didn't have techs).

Enemy damage should be based against the average HP of level-capped players + the best unit sets the game has to offer. It's silly to design content based around the possibility of people having... lets say 1.5k+ HP when 90% of the population does not have that.

You don't have to affix like firesword though. I have 4926 satk with shifta/drink/tree (and katana gear), 1561 hp without deband but with my ult amd timed abilities factored in, and 206pp before pp drink. My units are just 90satk/50hp/9pp. Considering that this is a almost certainly a test for the next difficulty, it would make sense for things to actually be, like, difficult (also it's not double enemy damage, it's double enemy attack, which is actually a pretty big difference).

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

You don't have to affix like firesword though. I have 4926 satk with shifta/drink/tree, 1561 hp without deband but with my ult amd timed abilities factored in, and 206pp before pp drink. My units are just 90satk/50hp/9pp. Considering that this is a almost certainly a test for the next difficulty, it would make sense for things to actually be, like, difficult (also it's not double enemy damage, it's double enemy attack, which is actually a pretty big difference).

Firesword was just a silly example. The point is, balancing damage around what players COULD POSSIBLY affix is silly. Doing that now after this many years pisses on people who invested dozens of millions affixing a certain way. Especially when the average HP players inherently get from units hasn't changed much since saiki/austere but suddenly cranking up the damage to disproportionate levels is fine?



Also:


Considering that this is a almost certainly a test for the next difficulty, it would make sense for things to actually be, like, difficult

Making things one shot a player that didn't before isn't difficulty. Or at the very least, not enjoyable at all. That's annoyance.

And worst of all, that form of 'difficulty' can be subverted by the size of my wallet. This is the big difference between Devil may Cry doing this, and PSO2 doing it.

If you want to make something difficult, something more has to be done other than just raising the numbers.

Take FF14 for example: They don't give things more HP, make them hit harder and call it 'hard mode'. Square puts in mechanics.

[Kintama]

Most people have as much HP as I do, which is a bit over ~1k.
I got tail slapped by those little tail dragons in ult amd for like 1.3k without deband cut. Anga does around the same with his tail wag, and random sonic booms without deband cut.

I'm inclined to say retarded damage scaling is the bigger problem here than me not investing into more HP affixes for the game's outlier.

Regular quick attacks shouldn't be hitting people for 1k+. There's other examples of silly damage that shouldn't even be.

Also, intentionally designing the game around the possibility of people affixing like Firesword at this stage is retarded, and just pisses on the investments of ALOT of people out of the blue. I don't expect them to make crap like this the norm, but it's hellishly annoying when they put out ill-thought out concepts like double enemy damage, or 90% heal cut with just about 0 consideration of... anything (that ff14 LQ was equally stupid and unfun after a few runs if you didn't have techs).

Enemy damage should be based against the average HP of level-capped players + the best unit sets the game has to offer. It's silly to design content based around the possibility of people having... lets say 1.5k+ HP when 90% of the population does not have that.

This is why I said just the added HP to bosses is fine because players got way stronger on average, but didn't get any more durable for at least the past year. Unit sets haven't given us any major bumps in HP since... crafted saiki, and austere 2-set.

And i'm inclined to say the issue is you expecting ennemies to be balanced around glasscanons, which for sure would make for an extremely boring mmo.

[AirinMikune]

Yeah, I disagree about just boosting the damage and hp and pass it off as a more challenging quest.

Before people chase me off with burning pitchfork and telling me to get gud, I am rocking a full Qhiphad set with Anga/Vinculum/Ether Factor/Abi III/Doom Break/Elegant stamina while not optimal on survival, should be around pro level of equipment.

Yet I tend to die a lot, not because I am bad at dodging but because of too much shit happening on the screen at once. Not to mention enemy combo that locks you down like Deus' lightning stun to thorns attack.

Anga for instance have those annoying bits, a stun, and a very wide range of attacks. Loser has those annoying red homing balls, quick needed attack, wide range sword swipes, etc. Sure, I can always focus on dodging but that means I am not doing DPS which just prolongs the fight even more seeing he has 5x more HP.

Sega should just pick either of the two, either a boosted damage so while people die a lot, it ends quicker or a boosted HP prolonging the fight but ensures everyone survives enough to dish the sustained DPS. Adding two sure is challenging but it is not fun at all since it's just the same stuff, just more tedious.

It also appears that players are being optimal with the falz run so it is same old thing, except longer.

I wish they could had spiced the EQ like adding a few attacks or adding falz arms on the actual dark falz phase and those owl bird on loser phase. Much more interesting than just higher numbers.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

And i'm inclined to say the issue is you expecting ennemies to be balanced around glasscanons, which for sure would make for an extremely boring mmo.

Ignoring your misrepresentation, and oversimplification of my point because you're too lazy, enemy damage should be balanced around realistic HP numbers.

They shouldn't be hitting people for 1k on normal attacks at this point in time, nor in the next difficulty. How is this a debate?

[Saagonsa]

Well for one, techer exists for a reason. Making your more durable is one of its two main things. I don't see a reason why something shouldn't be balanced around having it, while also being able to do without if you have decent enough gear.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Well for one, techer exists for a reason. Making your more durable is one of its two main things. I don't see a reason why something shouldn't be balanced around having it, while also being able to do without if you have decent enough gear.

I do have decent enough gear, and without a techer, ive been hit for ~1200+ by attacks that aren't designed to be "you seriously messed up" one-shots. I have ~1700 in each defense and close to 10% of each atk resistance. In the rest of the game, we're dealing with 400-600 damage and around the same average HP we had for 1-2 years.

The damage of some things in boosted ult amd is just overtuned, and really shouldn't be replicated in the next difficulty. Period.

If you want the game to be difficult, this isn't the way to do it.

Difficulty would be testing what the players know about the game, their class, weapons, the enemy, and reaction speed. Creating arbitrary one-shots where there were none is not difficulty.

[blkbox11]

This game feels like a bunch of games in one with a complete lack of direction and dead flavor of the month modes scattered all around. They really should have dropped it around ep4 and started on pso3.
A PSO3 to keep things fresh would just be another new thing that does not fix any problems, and is not a guarantee that it will be brought to the West like I'm sure some here are hoping.

Before moving on to a new game, SEGA should really figure out solutions to the current game's problems, which they haven't. It would end up like Warframe, where the devs keep adding new big flashy features and graphics without setting up a solid endgame - making the game worse than PSO2 for veteran players. That being said, that game takes a lot of risks as per Western mindset, and seems to be more suited to a number of people here based on their complaints about PSO2.


Difficulty would be testing what the players know about the game, their class, weapons, the enemy, and reaction speed. Creating arbitrary one-shots where there were none is not difficulty.
Can't agree more.

[isCasted]

As much as I want harder attack patterns and what not for the next difficulty tier (especially since Loser now feels as slow as Elder), with the way the game is right now crunching numbers up is better than nothing. We do, in fact, have excessive damage for now, and as a temporary solution it works just fine. It makes a difference between experiencing content the original intended way and just mindlessly walking through it not experiencing anything.



I got tail slapped by those little tail dragons in ult amd for like 1.3k without deband cut. Anga does around the same with his tail wag, and random sonic booms without deband cut.

Here's a thing that's common between those two attacks: they are both telegraphed for 5 seconds in advance. They are stupidly freaking slow, and you have to not pay attention at all to not notice them. Steroid Pendrans can also be stunlocked if you open their weakpoint, they just sit there doing nothing for a while, and a single person has enough power to do it. I've never had trouble with these attacks in MPAs with Expert setting. I'm saying this as someone who is still running 980 HP with Hunter and 1200 HP with Fighter and Hero.


Anga for instance have those annoying bits, a stun, and a very wide range of attacks. Loser has those annoying red homing balls, quick needed attack, wide range sword swipes, etc. Sure, I can always focus on dodging but that means I am not doing DPS which just prolongs the fight even more seeing he has 5x more HP.

Having to decide between attack and defense is a huge part of challenge. That's the POINT. That's what makes those bosses fun. But there's more... You can attack and defend yourself at the same time! There's tons of options that allow to maintain damage while providing block and invincibility frames. Not everything has to be about waiting for weakpoint to come up and then whaling on it in a braindead manner. In those parts you have to actively seek out opportunities to attack (which is a skill that comes from studying your class and your enemies), and that's what makes them extremely satisfying.


Yet I tend to die a lot, not because I am bad at dodging but because of too much shit happening on the screen at once. Not to mention enemy combo that locks you down like Deus' lightning stun to thorns attack.

Now this is a valid point. Quite a few mob-centered EQs suffer from this, and Amduscia UQ has this problem in Darker rooms (mostly because of shield guys). Deus is easily the worst boss in the game. During main body fights it's just dodging while waiting, and then whaling, with no inbetween, which is boring. During dragon heads he can suddenly send 4-5 things at once at you (because his attacks aren't synchronized in any way) and there truly is nothing you could do about it. Even if you can see all these things at once (which, as melee, I can't, because a dragon head directly in front of me blocks my vision), there's this thing called recovery frames, so after successfully dodging one or two things you will inevitably get hit by the third and fourth ones. When something is designed to be bullshit, no amount of gitting gud, Fornis weapons and stacking HP will prevent stupid things with none of your fault happening, it only delays the inevitable.

But, again, this isn't a problem of buffed stats, it's a problem of core design. You might not feel the impact of this issue during unbuffed fights, because dragon heads just die too fast, or they deal so little damage that you can simply forget you got hit like it never happened. It's still possible. It'll still happen. It's still bullshit.

[AirinMikune]

Unbuffed Zeus already murders me with that dragon head knock back + follow up laser while a lightning from front and the sky is hurling towards you.

There is no worse feeling than knowing that in a split second, you are going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

I can accept death as a result of my misplays like an ill timed counter but death because of random bullshit is just painful.

[blkbox11]

As much as I want harder attack patterns and what not for the next difficulty tier (especially since Loser now feels as slow as Elder), with the way the game is right now crunching numbers up is better than nothing. We do, in fact, have excessive damage for now, and as a temporary solution it works just fine. It makes a difference between experiencing content the original intended way and just mindlessly walking through it not experiencing anything.
Raising numbers does work as a temporary measure, but after having done this before, it's surprising that SEGA didn't ballpark it better.

With enemies that also have doubled or tripled HP, about a 20~50% attack boost is enough to present a challenge while not being overwhelming. Doubling or tripling the attack is pretty excessive especially with the clusterfucks that can happen with certain bosses and areas like Ult Amduscia.

[GHNeko]

Well for one, techer exists for a reason. Making your more durable is one of its two main things. I don't see a reason why something shouldn't be balanced around having it, while also being able to do without if you have decent enough gear.

Why are you trying to revive the era of requiring classes within your MPA in order to have a properly functioning MPA.

They nerfed WB nonsense for this very reason.

People never liked needing a specific class within the MPA in order for the quest to be run as intended.

[oratank]

Unbuffed Zeus already murders me with that dragon head knock back + follow up laser while a lightning from front and the sky is hurling towards you.

There is no worse feeling than knowing that in a split second, you are going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

I can accept death as a result of my misplays like an ill timed counter but death because of random bullshit is just painful.

i feel you about that death combo but it can be detected if you see some dragon head are charging their laser that is the sign of that combo just step back from the line of laser

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Why are you trying to revive the era of requiring classes within your MPA in order to have a properly functioning MPA.

They nerfed WB nonsense for this very reason.

People never liked needing a specific class within the MPA in order for the quest to be run as intended.

My thoughts exactly. That's why I was a little salty when I found some attacks that shouldn't even be one shots would kill me without Techer deband.



Here's a thing that's common between those two attacks: they are both telegraphed for 5 seconds in advance. They are stupidly freaking slow, and you have to not pay attention at all to not notice them. Steroid Pendrans can also be stunlocked if you open their weakpoint, they just sit there doing nothing for a while, and a single person has enough power to do it. I've never had trouble with these attacks in MPA setting in Expert blocks. I'm saying this as someone who is still running 980 HP with Hunter and 1200 HP with Fighter and Hero.

I'll grant you that, but it is the infected mosh-pit of dragons (can't be stopped) that show up with anga that I was referring to. I just play the ranged game when they have max infection now.

And the sonic booms I was talking about, you know the rapid slash waves before it finishes with a stun and lots of ground AOE? Those are around 1100-1200 each.
Another attack I just remembered, a little hard to describe... when Anga lines up with its bits and swings beams of energy at people in front in a giant sort of whipping motion? I think that's at least a little over 1k.

I take some solace in the fact this isn't a sample of what's to come (I hope), but still, you'd think after the mess that was FF14 LQ they'd put a little more thought into number values effects on gameplay instead of multiplying enemy atk power and repackaging it as some exciting new gameplay experience.

[The City]

They could lower the level requirement for the hero class. I am fairly new, and getting three level 75's through these missions seems like a long-term goal....

[GHNeko]

They could lower the level requirement for the hero class. I am fairly new, and getting three level 75's through these missions seems like a long-term goal....

It's not intended for new players.

Hence labled as an "advanced class"

That being said, you can generally get Hero unlocked within a week of playing with some guidance.

I mean I was able to grind through ~35mil EXP in about 3-4 hours.

Granted I had end game gear to help but still. The game pushes you to Level 50 really quickly.

[oratank]

300% boost on leveling quest you can make it 600k every 2 minute on sh with full pt and75% and the best part is you barely touch anything

[Great Pan]

In terms of challenging difficulty, I still can't beat Phaleg, even with Hero. And my gear wasn't that bad too.

[Zephyrion]

My thoughts exactly. That's why I was a little salty when I found some attacks that shouldn't even be one shots would kill me without Techer deband.



I'll grant you that, but it is the infected mosh-pit of dragons (can't be stopped) that show up with anga that I was referring to. I just play the ranged game when they have max infection now.

And the sonic booms I was talking about, you know the rapid slash waves before it finishes with a stun and lots of ground AOE? Those are around 1100-1200 each.
Another attack I just remembered, a little hard to describe... when Anga lines up with its bits and swings beams of energy at people in front in a giant sort of whipping motion? I think that's at least a little over 1k.

I take some solace in the fact this isn't a sample of what's to come (I hope), but still, you'd think after the mess that was FF14 LQ they'd put a little more thought into number values effects on gameplay instead of multiplying enemy atk power and repackaging it as some exciting new gameplay experience.

While I also dislike some mobs or normally trivial attacks one shooting you, I think these two attacks are finally at their rightful place. I mean come on, Anga menacingly roars at you before teleporting all over the place or flying and throwing blades everywhere . It bears all the characteristics of a pattern where you have to get defensive (The windows to hit it without being hit are very small for a reason). Most of the telegraphed attacks should be like that, since let's all remember we're talking 12 man content with each man carrying 5 AoE revival items, with a range that can be extended + cast speed reduced with a ring AND potentially half dolls. Dying to something like that can happen, but it's not the end of the world here.

Also I'm a man of small pleasures. SEGA even trying to understand and define what endgame is is enough for me to enjoy it, instead of just throwing a moldy bone like another solo XQ twice a year and be satisfied with it. There WILL be other similar fuck-ups, but if they can at least get a clear view of what veterans expect in terms of difficulty, I can live with a few unfair one-shots for a week

[GHNeko]

The only thing that bugs me about the game is just how egregiously huge enemy hitboxes are.

Even when you're the host of the MPA, there are just some attacks that miss me by 1.5-2 whole character lengths, but I still get hit.

Maybe that's just ping but idk.

[isCasted]

It's the opposite for me. I expect to counter things, but they miss completely, even though their model clearly goes through my character.

As for Techer thing, I think they should make its main-only skills party-only. That is, after they give Techer proper damage buffs (like, I dunno, PAs).

[blkbox11]

Maybe that's just ping but idk.

It's not ping. I'm guessing it's there to sort of force people to study the boss' movements instead of depending on visual distance for everything. If the hitboxes were to exact size, then people would be getting hit much less. Hero would also have more problems countering.

One of the worst offenders is Mom and her 2nd phase (when she's directly target-able) 'KUDAKEYO' claw swipe: that thing can hit even if you're behind her and/or nowhere near her arm when she swings it. There's also Deus' snake heads when they rush forward or sideways across the player's location, and the beams they fire from their mouths.

[GHNeko]

It's not ping. I'm guessing it's there to sort of force people to study the boss' movements instead of depending on visual distance for everything. If the hitboxes were to exact size, then people would be getting hit much less. Hero would also have more problems countering.

One of the worst offenders is Mom and her 2nd phase (when she's directly target-able) 'KUDAKEYO' claw swipe: that thing can hit even if you're behind her and/or nowhere near her arm when she swings it. There's also Deus' snake heads when they rush forward or sideways across the player's location, and the beams they fire from their mouths.

Yeah that shit's dumb because it makes things too punishing for no good reason.

There is already too much shit obscured in terms of game mechanics as it is.

[Dark Mits]

<snipped to save space>The problem with boosted bosses one-shotting players isn't that their damage is set too high, but the exact opposite; the players have too low Defense because the game never required us to focus on it.

Just consider this: What if instead of Atk Team Tree, Atk from campship and atk food you instead used Def? What if instead of +150 atk affixes you had +100HP/+50 Def? What if instead of a full damage build you had HU sub with maxxed Guard Stance? -EDIT- Ask players around that play tanking builds for fun if they even fear the boosted enemies. I'm sure they don't. They have noticed the increase in incoming damage, but it's still not alarming enough for them to fear dying uncontrollably and frequently. -END EDIT-

-2nd EDIT-
Also, how many points have you invested in those skills that increase HP or S/R/T-def? The "you" in my question doesn't refer to you as in singling you out, but to everyone who plays enough of the game to know to not put points randomly in the trees.

Sure your dps would drop by 50% at least (or maybe even 90%) compared to what your current meta build provides. And yes, it would piss people off who spent millions on their current equipment. But you can always have a 2nd set of equipment, more defense oriented. You don't need to have 7-slot minimum to join a quest.

As for Techer being mandatory, yes, it should be addressed. In fact, Techer's unique contribution was already 3 scales larger than what the term "brokenly OP" could describe. I mean, the class literally increases a player'swhole group's of 12 players effective HP by a factor of over 100% by simply pressing 1 button once per 3 mins. There is nothing even remotely close to that OPness for the Offense department (not even pre-nerf WB, not even initial state of Hero class). It was just never discussed seriously because it was never required. Maybe share with some other underepresented class the buffs for Deband and Shifta (like Summoner, who lacks non-pet-oriented skills), or buff Shiftaride/Debanride consumables to that level.

[oratank]

The problem with boosted bosses one-shotting players isn't that their damage is set too high, but the exact opposite; the players have too low Defense because the game never required us to focus on it.


because they lazy to press dodge or guard

[Vatallus]

As someone else stated, and I agree with, that this boost is to collect data. They boosted these two quest, put shiny drops in their drop pools to make people play them, all so they can collect data on how hard to make the new up coming "pro players" content.

This isn't the first time they have done this. This is the only first time they put really shiny things in the drop pool instead of giving us a SH Elder with anywhere between x5 to x20 HP *cough hello ship 1* to see what the players can deal with.

The best way to collect data instead of giving us a boosted Elder with boosted Elder drops is to put things people actually want in the drop pool and buff the chances to get them.

Profound Invasion is the HP sponge quest to see how fast players can strip a large targets hit points.
Ult Amd is the skill based quest to see how well players can deal with buffed HP enemies that can actually fight back.

[AirinMikune]

@dark mits

I would had agreed with you but for the longest time, the game was fine always labeling def as a worthless stat. Yes a def investment would be warranted if only they buff up the attack but you also have to consider the 5x more HP meaning you also have to consider having attack just to chip the boss down else it would be a really boring game of tank slapping each other.

@oratank

I hate people who assume just because you die means you are lazy at dodging or didn't try hard enough. We already discussed this a few page back about so many shit happening at the screen at once that there is no way you can always be dodging things at 100% especially as after you dodge, another attack will be in your face again.

[TehCubey]

Just consider this: What if instead of Atk Team Tree, Atk from campship and atk food you instead used Def? What if instead of +150 atk affixes you had +100HP/+50 Def? What if instead of a full damage build you had HU sub with maxxed Guard Stance? -EDIT- Ask players around that play tanking builds for fun if they even fear the boosted enemies. I'm sure they don't. They have noticed the increase in incoming damage, but it's still not alarming enough for them to fear dying uncontrollably and frequently. -END EDIT-

-2nd EDIT-
Also, how many points have you invested in those skills that increase HP or S/R/T-def? The "you" in my question doesn't refer to you as in singling you out, but to everyone who plays enough of the game to know to not put points randomly in the trees.

Sure your dps would drop by 50% at least (or maybe even 90%) compared to what your current meta build provides. And yes, it would piss people off who spent millions on their current equipment. But you can always have a 2nd set of equipment, more defense oriented. You don't need to have 7-slot minimum to join a quest.

https://i.imgur.com/mXyupD1.gif

[Moffen]

Let me turn off etrial announcements in the middle of the screen and zoom out a bit further so i dont get btfo by random stuff sliding into my rear and doing 1300+ dmg

And for the love of christ let me move the camera up and down when I've locked onto something,or a lockon that picks the parts you want to lock on by using left/right camera directions,in an order,so i didnt have nightmares trying to lock-on to apos core or something.

the camera in this game is the true endgame boss.
Half the deaths are just not seeing where an unforgiving attack just hit you.

[oratank]

We already discussed this a few page back about so many shit happening at the screen at once that there is no way you can always be dodging things at 100% especially as after you dodge, another attack will be in your face again.


The problem with boosted bosses one-shotting players

well which boosted boss you talking about that having so many shit happening at the screen i have no idea

[echofaith]

I been in the boat of this game being just a fashion simulator for the past year, and I didnt mind it. But this upgrade made content more fun overall. I actually have a reason to play the EQs now, instead of just taging along with the other 11 and looting at the end. Most XH content can be face tanked with minimal defensive boosts and affixes thanks to being able to heal back instantly thanks to resta or automate(and now regen ring, fornis and stuff) and to top it all, you can get revived easily several times if you do die.

I am hoping they add a new difficulty based in these changes, as it does motivate careful playing. I mean, I prefer this kind of difficulty adjustment over current meta, which is mostly spamming the same PAs with minimal dodging when majority of incoming attacks can be ignored and healed next second.

[Zorak000]

oh right: http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E7%89%B9%E6%AE%8A%E8%83%BD%E5%8A%9B%E8% BF%BD%E5%8A%A0#b2346bdb

that affix+grind boost comment in the OP forgets the fact that they have found some reason to -always- do a 5% affix boost about this time of year every year (after the first because it was all still kinda newish)

anyway that's all I wanted to point out

[Masu]

Let me turn off etrial announcements in the middle of the screen and zoom out a bit further so i dont get btfo by random stuff sliding into my rear and doing 1300+ dmg

And for the love of christ let me move the camera up and down when I've locked onto something,or a lockon that picks the parts you want to lock on by using left/right camera directions,in an order,so i didnt have nightmares trying to lock-on to apos core or something.

the camera in this game is the true endgame boss.
Half the deaths are just not seeing where an unforgiving attack just hit you.

THIS 100000000000 THIS. I think it's even worse for players who use pad. Like lock and center camera are on same button -_-. I use the keep button pressed to lock and once a target is out of reach, dead or a part is broken, I find myself turning my back to the target @_@ Great. Sometimes to manage to lock what I want I have to literally kiss the target. Awesome when you play ranged :v Also for Gu when you get into the air I happen to find the way to make camera follow where you are. Hit '+' of your numpad (or tps in/out mode but I guess everyone know this).

[Dark Mits]

@dark mits

I would had agreed with you but for the longest time, the game was fine always labeling def as a worthless stat. Yes a def investment would be warranted if only they buff up the attack but you also have to consider the 5x more HP meaning you also have to consider having attack just to chip the boss down else it would be a really boring game of tank slapping each other.I see this as a move to make the EQs / Ult Amd resemble what is called "dungeon crawl". Meaning that the player doesn't rush through it, but crawls at a slow pace. And still, if the boss would take 10x longer due to it having 5x more hp and players having 1/2 their damage due to focus on defense, it'd still be over in ~10-15mins, which is something that doesn't seem extreme (at least as an old-school player).


<snip>Yes, I am serious. The options exist. Therefore if their usage can be proven to provide a smoother run over pure dps-athon, it means that the content isn't overtuned but in fact balanced.

[Saagonsa]

Why are you trying to revive the era of requiring classes within your MPA in order to have a properly functioning MPA.

They nerfed WB nonsense for this very reason.

People never liked needing a specific class within the MPA in order for the quest to be run as intended.

You absolutely do not need a techer in boosted ult amd like you used to need a ranger in Elder/Loser/Magatsu. It makes things easier obviously, but that's not even close to a fair comparison.

[KatsuraJun]

well which boosted boss you talking about that having so many shit happening at the screen i have no idea

among the boosted quests we've had (Gracia/Elder/Loser/Ulti), none of them have so much shit you can't keep track except Anga if nobody pulls Anga away of the clusterfuck in the middle of the room. That's the only time they would be justified in saying "I can't see anything, how am I supposed to dodge this" but that's partially also the mistake of whoever has aggro choosing not to fight Anga in a more sane location.

Everything else, maybe it's time to start actually caring about what the boss does guys instead of tanking through it with automate? I've seen people complain about getting killed by the lightning strikes in Gracia because they didn't see them coming. But they are in fact telegraphed, it's just time to start looking and caring instead of trying to tank through everything.

Boosting HP and ATK values is exactly the way to go to fix a lot of our existing content. So many bosses already have a varied moveset, they just never get to use them because they get vaporized, or even if they do, it doesn't matter because they don't do enough damage, and even if they do somehow manage to kill you through your 30 mates, dying doesn't matter.

[isCasted]

Teach me how to dodge a spear, a double headbutt and a laser at the same time when the split happens. How about 2 headbutts, 2 lasers and light projectiles at the moon break phase? Let's for sake of simplicity pretend that we have camera view of a ranged player (so we are actually able to see all dragon heads without them obstructing each other and main body) and dodging capabilities of melee.

[FantasyHeaven]

Let me turn off etrial announcements in the middle of the screen and zoom out a bit further so i dont get btfo by random stuff sliding into my rear and doing 1300+ dmg

And for the love of christ let me move the camera up and down when I've locked onto something,or a lockon that picks the parts you want to lock on by using left/right camera directions,in an order,so i didnt have nightmares trying to lock-on to apos core or something.

the camera in this game is the true endgame boss.
Half the deaths are just not seeing where an unforgiving attack just hit you.
After playing FFXIV for the better part of the beginning of this year coming back to pso2 was a shock. Even a slow game that doesn't need it as much like XIV has good camera controls that allow you to zoom out really far. PSO2, a much more action oriented game, has absolutely nothing.
For this reason I did the last raid boss (don't even know its name) a grand total of once and have not touched it since. Sega's insistence on these huge bosses while having a complete lack of control over the camera going on 5 years is ridiculous. More so that they don't get flooded by complaints from the japs over this.

[Saffran]

Regular HU tank reporting: for the love of god, people, drop your moons. I don't give a damn about your mates, I need your moons, because *I* am the one standing alive that has to resurrect you after every fucking attack.

That being saif and out of the way...
> We already discussed this a few page back about so many shit happening at the screen at once
> that there is no way you can always be dodging things at 100% especially as after you dodge, another attack will be in your face again.

No damage run videos on youtube and nico nico all beg to differ. (we're talking Solo Gracia or PD here but it's valid for any TA run)
On the contrary, dodging and countering and just guarding mechanics are so cheesy that for all intents and purposes, you don't need HP or Defense, like, ever. And that's what I always complain about when Sega asks our opinion.

>Teach me how to dodge a spear,
Stay more to the side of the boss and it can't hit you. If your class requires you to be front and center, simply time your dodging, you litterally see the attack incoming.
> a double headbutt
The ground glows yellowish on the parts where the headbutt lands. Go to the sides or stay there and just guard + counter. If you're unlucky you will be invincible through both heabutts, but with a bit of luck you can just guard back to back and have both counter attacks hit.
> and a laser
You can dodge those or just guard by simply reacting to the lasers appearing on your screen. You can also time it in your head, it takes roughly 3 seconds between the cast animation and the moment they hit.
> at the same time
That doesn't matter then. If you dodge (or just guard) one of them, you will be invincible through all of it. You can spam the guard button like a paranoid man until you've just guarded it all if you need to.

Ah, well. If anything, the 500% HP made me rediscover the awesomeness of the Loser Battle theme. I just wish people would know about Zanverse and Resta.

[oratank]

Teach me how to dodge a spear, a double headbutt and a laser at the same time when the split happens. How about 2 headbutts, 2 lasers and light projectiles at the moon break phase? Let's for sake of simplicity pretend that we have camera view of a ranged player (so we are actually able to see all dragon heads without them obstructing each other and main body) and dodging capabilities of melee.

before headbutt they performing stance before laser they charge when you see a charge be warning if you can't dodge run off the line of laser then you won't stuck by headbutt combo

moon break - same thing you saw it you run

[KatsuraJun]

Teach me how to dodge a spear, a double headbutt and a laser at the same time when the split happens. How about 2 headbutts, 2 lasers and light projectiles at the moon break phase? Let's for sake of simplicity pretend that we have camera view of a ranged player (so we are actually able to see all dragon heads without them obstructing each other and main body) and dodging capabilities of melee.

Every single move you're talking about is telegraphed and none of them get used in such quick succession that dodging/blocking would be an issue during the split phase where only one or two heads are even capable of attacking you at a time.

The moon break phase with all the heads might be a bit of a clusterfuck but if you're not comfortable and you're stuck on a melee with no good ranged option (unlike something BR or HR where you can just stand midrange and spam vapor/hatou) then just wait for the heads to thrust out before attacking. Just practice some caution if you're not confident, that's literally the only part where attacks can be thrown out rapidly from multiple heads on one person anyway since they're so densely packed together.

As was pointed out above, people have done solo runs with no damage so "its impossible" is a really poor excuse unless you're suggesting they just got lucky.

[AirinMikune]

Like I said, there is no real way of dodging a lot of stuffs, I do understand telegraphed moves but there are times that even if you know the enemy is about to use it, you have no real way of responding in such cases like, recovering from a knock back, hit stun for attack, charging tech, PA delays, middle of reviving someone, and the list goes on. Again and again, just because I got hit doesn't mean I can't dodge.

Also a video of an expert solo running something isn't really a valid point because of these reasons:

-Recorded video, they could easily failed x number of times but will only upload the perfect run.
-Solo runs makes it easier to dodge things because less stuffs are happening on your screen.
-These are made by expert running with elite equipment which is probably the top 1% of the community, doesn't really represent the remaining 99%.

Long runs doesn't really mean challenging. It gets boring chasing a loser teleporting around the arena.

[SteveCZ]

Long runs doesn't really mean challenging. It gets boring chasing a loser teleporting around the arena.

Try boosting PD to 1000% HP and see it flying around like we don't exist. :lol:

[KatsuraJun]

Like I said, there is no real way of dodging a lot of stuffs, I do understand telegraphed moves but there are times that even if you know the enemy is about to use it, you have no real way of responding in such cases like,

recovering from a knock back, hit stun for attack
That means you got hit in the first place from something else. don't get hit, or alternatively, get air reversal ring for knockbacks.


charging tech
then time it better so you can charge parry it or cancel the charge it if you didn't


PA delays
there are very few PAs that lock you into the animation and none that you should just be randomly using while the boss is still attacking.


middle of reviving someone
then don't revive someone when the boss is still attacking. We left someone on the ground for a good 20 seconds in Gracia until he started doing his back and forth sweep when we knew we wouldn't get hit for trying to moon.


Again and again, just because I got hit doesn't mean I can't dodge.
it means you aren't as good as you think you are. You might be able to dodge in a vacuum, but you aren't able to adapt to the what the boss is doing. The only reason it didn't matter before now is because everything hit like a wet noodle, and people are now clamoring for it back so they can ignore everything with automate or some guy casting megiverse nearby.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

it means you aren't as good as you think you are. You might be able to dodge in a vacuum, but you aren't able to adapt to the what the boss is doing. The only reason it didn't matter before now is because everything hit like a wet noodle, and people are now clamoring for it back so they can ignore everything with automate or some guy casting megiverse nearby.

People are clamoring to not be blindsided by near-one shots from full HP. It's called a middle ground, but way to misrepresent points.

[isCasted]

snip
Thanks for thoughtful yet laconic response. It pretty much covers Hunter, Braver and, to a certain extent, Hero. These classes have decent range on their attacks, so, I guess, seeing laser from a distance wouldn't be much of an issue.

On the other hand, there is Fighter. With Fighter I absolutely have to hug the head, and in terms of camera I pretty much have to choose between looking at main body for that lightning telegraph or the other dragon head for its attacks. Unlike Hu and Br, blocking doesn't give extra iframes. In fact, hitstops on TD action and Acro Effect slow you down, and those have quite a lot of recovery frames. Getting hit by something you didn't see during those might mean you'll get hit by something you anticipated to block with your next move, because your recovery frames will be delayed. Facet Folia's iframes are quite long, so it might be a good tool against 3 simultaneous attacks, but timing its usage is also an issue due to startup time, as well as recovery frames, not to mention the fact that often you have to cancel the previous PA with a twirl to start it. All of that startup time means you are given barely enough time to react to some things, and that's on top of the fact that you have to react to three different things at once, and those three different things are not synchronized in any way.

There's also this issue that dragon heads like to move around so much they wander to another head's territory and then they clip through each other. When that happens... You have to watch out for THREE dragon heads, not two or one. Chances are the third head is busy fighting the person who's fighting it or the fourth head, but that's not always the case.


Every single move you're talking about is telegraphed and none of them get used in such quick succession that dodging/blocking would be an issue during the split phase where only one or two heads are even capable of attacking you at a time.
That's the issue I'm trying to raise. It's that they DO happen in quick succession, without any synchronization, with random timing each time. Main body and each individual dragon head are completely independent beings in terms of behavior. When you are whaled on by everything telegraphs don't do shit, because the area covered by attacks is massive (so stepping out of the area might not be possible) and certain defensive tools have recovery frames during which you are helpless.


there are very few PAs that lock you into the animation and none that you should just be randomly using while the boss is still attacking.
It isn't just PAs that lock you in place, even something as quick as Step has brief moments when you are vulnerable, and you can't say not to use Step, can you?


just wait for the heads to thrust out before attacking
You're on a time limit at this point, so waiting for one random attack to happen is not an option.

Anyway, I'm kinda curious about those no-damage runs. Most of the runs I've seen featured Fornis the entire time, and damage was taken even under LB. Not sure what I have to put in search query to find those. And suppose those people truly have enough skill to recognize 100% of possible situations dragons can cause and time their dodging appropriately, and it's not that it's only possible to dodge 99% of stuff and in those runs that 1% of bullshit didn't happen. Why is there such a huge difference in skill requirement between a lucky and an unlucky pattern? Why do unlucky patterns of dragon attacks require so much more thought and mechanical prowess than everything Deus throws at you when he's at his final phase? Even if there is a possibility that a player could be skillful enough to dodge all dragon attacks for eternity (doesn't mean such person has to exist, there just has to be a possibility), isn't this still a sign of dumb design?

[milranduil]

here you go, ds gracia. not a no-damage run, but something can be learned with how this guy avoids dying.
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoFHA8K2pKg
[/spoiler-box]

[KatsuraJun]

That's the issue I'm trying to raise. It's that they DO happen in quick succession, without any synchronization, with random timing each time. Main body and each individual dragon head are completely independent beings in terms of behavior. When you are whaled on by everything telegraphs don't do shit, because the area covered by attacks is massive (so stepping out of the area might not be possible) and certain defensive tools have recovery frames during which you are helpless.

It isn't just PAs that lock you in place, even something as quick as Step has brief moments when you are vulnerable, and you can't say not to use Step, can you?
I almost exclusively used step to dodge in my Gracia run and there were 0 times where his attacks lined up so perfectly that it caught me in that less than a second of recovery between my first and next step. It's really not as common as you guys are making it out to be, and in any case this isn't a case of "too much shit on your screen to see what's happening" like some people were claiming.

And even then, almost every melee class some kind of guard frame skill (Deadly Circle 0, charging literally anything on hunter, Brightness End) that is perfect for dealing with some extended succession of attacks.


You're on a time limit at this point, so waiting for one random attack to happen is not an option.
The heads open with an overhead slam that leaves all of them vulnerable, giving you plenty of time to attack. Afterwards, there's still a ton of heads and one of them is bound to thrust forward. As the heads get knocked off, yes, you might be waiting around if you're looking for that specific attack to punish, but with less heads you can safely approach the boss anyway at that point. You want to say this is an improbability but "Deus just happens to catch you on that fraction of a second between steps over and over again until you hit 5 deaths" is common?


Even if there is a possibility that a player could be skillful enough to dodge all dragon attacks for eternity (doesn't mean such person has to exist, there just has to be a possibility), isn't this still a sign of dumb design?
I never died to the dragon heads, and I don't consider myself a particularly skilled player either. I feel like the ability to dodge them is being way overplayed, their attacks are so painfully telegraphed that you don't even need to look at them, so you just really need to look at deus to see if he's launching lightning spears - at least for the split phase, I can totally understand being hit during the post-moon blown up phase, hence me advocating just playing a bit more safely. There's 8 heads and at least one (if not multiple) are bound to thrust forward giving you a moment to safely attack.

[MightyHarken]

Oh my God, the amount of people whinning here because now they´re dying is cringeworthy. I honestly hope that all content in XH equals to this level forever, and if you can´t win then play SH or start affixing something that isn´t pure attack. I always affixed my units with 150 atk, 50 HP and 5PP to be able to take hits.

I chose Ra/Hu because of the survival abilities such as flash guards, iron will, automate. I was prepared for this since the beginning! And I always laughed at those that only bothered with atk builds because the game "didn´t need any other stat". Now they´re on the floor crying like babies to get picked up and making posts about it in the forums, lmao.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Oh my God, the amount of people whinning here because now they´re dying is cringeworthy. I honestly hope that all content in XH equals to this level forever, and if you can´t win then play SH or start affixing something that isn´t pure attack. I always affixed my units with 150 atk, 50 HP and 5PP to be able to take hits.

I chose Ra/Hu because of the survival abilities such as flash guards, iron will, automate. I was prepared for this since the beginning! And I always laughed at those that only bothered with atk builds because the game "didn´t need any other stat". Now they´re on the floor crying like babies to get picked up and making posts about it in the forums, lmao.

Sooo you want more things to hit people for 1k? That's perfectly fine to you?

Elaborate then: what does that add to the game? Does it make it more fun somehow? Drop the hipster crap and make a proper point.

Also congratulations on affixing a grand total of... 100 hp more than me? I use austere + union that comes with 265 hp innately and almost 10% striking, ranged, and tech damage reduction, and I still find 1k+ hits from Anga in ult Amd very stupid. How much HP do you actually have anyway? Can't be much more than anyone else if you're putting a whopping +50hp on each of your unit affixes.

[KatsuraJun]

actually forcing people to avoid damage instead of standing in megiverse or relying on automate for complete invincibility is a pretty good thing to add to the game. I legitimately want the current boosted enemies to be the standard, personally.

might also legitimately be too hardcore for the playerbase though seeing as how content is expected to be cleared 100% of the time by pug groups. The actual problem with boosted Gracia is there's no way to guarantee a 100% pug clear rate, the intended design of EQs by sega, Even if you personally avoid dying the other 3 people, well... not so much. I was lucky and got a good group and cleared on my very last run before the EQ timed out, but my other two runs were populated by people who managed to get a death even before I finished spawning in.

Maybe if they segregate boosted rematches as the "hard modes" that aren't expected to be cleared by everyone from normal EQ runs as the normal modes it'd be acceptable, kind of like savage in XIV.

[MightyHarken]

Sooo you want more things to hit people for 1k? That's perfectly fine to you?

Elaborate then: what does that add to the game? Does it make it more fun somehow? Drop the hipster crap and make a proper point.

Also congratulations on affixing a grand total of... 100 hp more than me? I use austere + union that comes with 265 hp innately and almost 10% striking, ranged, and tech damage reduction, and I still find 1k+ hits from Anga in ult Amd very stupid. How much HP do you actually have anyway? Can't be much more than anyone else if you're putting a whopping +50hp on each of your unit affixes.

Perfectly fine for me because I´m not getting hit for 1000. I´m getting hit for 600-750 and even then I still have automate. Remember tht there´s a mag that you can boost to your needs also. In PSO1 there wasn´t a forgiving phase in bosses, if it killed you it killed you. You couldn´t do anything about it except level up some more or hunt for better equipment.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Maybe if they segregate rematches as the "hard modes" that aren't expected to be cleared by everyone from normal EQ runs as the normal modes it'd be acceptable, kind of like savage in XIV.

Funny you bring up FF14 since I cleared A4s when it was relevant, and V4s over a month ago.

What makes savage a good challenge is the use of new mechanics, and the demand for coordination, and planning.

FF14 savage modes do more to make a fight challenging than just multiplying the damage and HP enemies have.

There's no comparison between normal->savage mode FF14 content and unboosted->boosted Ult Amd.

The other thing is, ever since the beginning of this game, all these upgraded modes ever amounted to be were more HP and damage, but never made the game any harder. It just made for bigger HP sponges that we stunlocked to death. If oodans started hitting people for 2k damage tomorrow, would that make this game any harder?

Better ideas would be:

-Less hitstun/CC vulnerable enemies. I didn't mind those skull soldiers having an immunity in BQ the other week, while they still hit for a fair amount of damage.
-Stacking, temporary HP cut for getting hit like in Ninja Gaiden Sigma that only goes away over time (zigmorde was a step in the right direction because of of her hits came with an HP cut)

[KatsuraJun]

The problem is the enemies don't do damage in the first place then all that shit is irrelevant. As it is, getting hit barely matters in any content. It's like if failing a mechanic could be healed off with a Medica II in XIV, then the mechanics are irrelevant because you're not actually punished for failing them.

This boosted content is actually killing people for getting hit and these complaints more or less boil down to "why am I dying for getting hit."

Allowing for some additional zoom out capability with the camera might be a good idea, but there's nothing wrong with the damage values. This is what it takes to actually kill players in PSO2, any less and we're back to the "let me just ignore everything and only focus on vaporizing the boss before it can physically act" gameplay.



As for your suggestions, less hitstun is not even an applicable thing to bosses which are never designed to be stunnable outside of scripted occurrences nowadays.

I'm assuming you think a stacking HP cut is like a vuln stack in XIV, but it's not, because it's completely is irrelevant unless it cuts your HP immediately to extremely low levels (like 50%) off the first one or two hits, which would end up being more or less the same as the boosted situation we have now.

Otherwise, it takes too many hits to matter unless the player is intentionally getting hit. It's not the same as a vuln stack where you end up taking tons of unavoidable damage that will easily kill you - all damage is avoidable in PSO2 because everyone has multiple ways to nullify damage.

[Dark Mits]

Elaborate then: what does that add to the game? Does it make it more fun somehow? Drop the hipster crap and make a proper point.It adds the long-requested "hard content" that the playerbase (at least here on the forums) has been asking for.

How can you make a video game harder?
-> Reduce the number of mistakes the player has to make in a certain timeframe and still succeed
-> Require quicker actions
-> Require more actions in the same timeframe
-> Require monitoring of more stuff going on at the same time.
-> Challenge the player's stamina

That's what the current test does.
1) It gives less room for mistakes (you now die in 1-2 hits as you say when you needed 4-5 before assuming there were no hp restoration at all).
2) For players to make less mistakes, it means that they need to react quicker to oncoming danger. Before we could just ignore it or even stay in the area of effect. So now we need to be quicker.
3) So since we need to be quicker, it also means that we need to perform more actions.
4) And since enemies do not die so quickly, each enemy has more time in its disposal to use abilities. So we have to monitor more AoEs and patterns. We also have to check the green bar on the bottom left too now, not just the middle of the screen and the loli chat.
5) And the increased hp also means that the players need to maintain their attention span for a longer time.


Also congratulations on affixing a grand total of... 100 hp more than me? I use austere + union that comes with 265 hp innately and almost 10% striking, ranged, and tech damage reduction, and I still find 1k+ hits from Anga in ult Amd very stupid. How much HP do you actually have anyway? Can't be much more than anyone else if you're putting a whopping +50hp on each of your unit affixes.Just hp alone is not the only measure of a player's effective hp. It's also modifiers to incoming damage. Someone with All Resist III on every equipment slot has extra 12% reduced damage taken. What hits you for 1000 would hit me for 880 assuming everything else equal.

You have to realize that this current test of Sega, should it find its way in a form or another in the future, would change the meta. The current meta says "100% in full offense. Take a defensive ability only if a more offensive one is behind it".


The other thing is, ever since the beginning of this game, all these upgraded modes ever amounted to be were more HP and damage, but never made the game any harder. It just made for bigger HP sponges that we stunlocked to death. If oodans started hitting people for 2k damage tomorrow, would that make this game any harder?That's Sega's fault, not because they can't come up with new mechanics (or copy them from other games), but because they were (probably) afraid that the playerbase which was used to 100% success with 0 effort would throw a shitstorm if the game suddenly requested something more than afk zerging.

Also funny that you bring up Zigmorde's HP cut; what would be a way to emulate 100% enemy damage increase without changing enemy damage? Answer: Cutting player HP by 50%. Zigmorde's HP cut mechanic is mechanically the same as having increased enemy damage by the inverse of the % it cut your hp with (20% reduction is the same as changing all enemy damage by 25% for example). The difference is that HP cut mechanic also increases the relative effectiveness of hp recovery options, whereas enemy damage increase doesn't. So in fact, Zigmorde's HP cut mechanic is MORE player unfriendly than directly increasing enemy damage.


And to cut this long post again, as KatsuraJun says, what's the point of introducing mechanics if the players cheese through them? Consider Burn and Poison for example: Deal a very small % of a player's current hp as damage per Xsec. Does anyone pay attention to it outside of Anti-ing it for PP recovery? No, because it's effect is too low for us to care. But Stun? Yes we pay attention to it. Because it interrupts our rotation and therefore our output.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The problem is the enemies don't do damage in the first place then all that shit is irrelevant.

Those boosted skull soldiers hit for... 400-500 each. When they were relentless, and came in a mob, I'd say they were a legit, and fair threat.


Allowing for some additional zoom out capability with the camera might be a good idea, but there's nothing wrong with the damage values. This is what it takes to actually kill players in PSO2, any less and we're back to the "let me just ignore everything and only focus on vaporizing the boss before it can physically act" gameplay.

You're suggesting the game can only go between two extremes of either never dying/not being tangibly punished for being hit, and near-one shots.

I'm thinking of better solutions that results in legitimate threats, and fair punishments for getting hit instead of just having the game become Devil May Cry heaven or hell mode.


As for your suggestions, less hitstun is not even an applicable thing to bosses which are never designed to be stunnable outside of scripted occurrences nowadays.

I know that. That was specifically for small enemies. Hitstunning them to death is one of the main reasons why N-XH doesn't feel very different despite all the number changes, and why bigger numbers and HP in small fry won't matter in whatever difficulty is next unless something changes.


I'm assuming you think a stacking HP cut is like a vuln stack in XIV,

No. I'd rather compare it to the suppuration (or however it is spelled) debuff that cuts max HP.


but it's not, because it's completely is irrelevant unless it cuts your HP immediately to extremely low levels (like 50%) off the first one or two hits, which would end up being more or less the same as the boosted situation we have now. Otherwise, it takes too many hits to matter unless the player is intentionally getting hit. It's not the same as a vuln stack where you end up taking tons of unavoidable damage that will easily kill you - all damage is avoidable in PSO2 because everyone has multiple ways to nullify damage.

If it stacked slower, was unremovable like I suggested, and decay slowly over time, it would be entirely relevant against a boss if people get hit too much.
Lets say: 10% cut a hit. Get hit 4-5 times in a fairly short window by certain attacks, and you're one or two shot-able. Automate and megiverse won't fix it.

Want specific attacks to be more punishing for being hit? make them inflict a 20% cut or something. Play with the %s all you want.

If people use the tools to avoid damage, well congratulations, they won't die to it. Working as intended. It will:
-punish people for getting hit
-doesn't entirely invalidate healing while making players mortal at the same time
-you don't have to one shot players out of the gate to make the enemy a threat.

That's the general idea behind my suggestion.Cranking more enemy attacks to hit for 1k+ and saying 'the game is fixed now' is lazy. The game should be made more difficult through enemy aggression, and cutting back the potency of stuff like automate making players pseudo-invincible. Not just one-shots, which pretty much addresses automate-tier healing power in the laziest way possible. I'd rather see something like 'if you get hit X amount of times, no matter what healing you have, you will drop on the next hit'.

[echofaith]

I guess the ideal scenario would be to add a new separate difficulty. Make it share same drop pool as XH, but better rates and CF gain. You could steamroll EQS in XH for a safe but slower method, or risk it with the new difficulty, but faster progression. Depending on the reward:effort ratio, it may keep both difficulties being played constantly. I know for sure I would alternate between both, as I am mostly a casual, but it does get boring doing the same EQ over and over with minimal difficulty. It would make hardcore players happy while also rewarding those willing to go the extra mile, and it make those who want to keep it simple happy too.

[morkie]

Sega must have

14* Series for this new difficulty

[KatsuraJun]

Those boosted skull soldiers hit for... 400-500 each. When they were relentless, and came in a mob, I'd say they were a legit, and fair threat.

Seriously? Those things were cannon fodder, and I'd be embarrassed if I died to them, all I noticed was that they were slightly harder to kill. They weren't fair, they were a joke and just annoying. Mind you, I'm not advocating that boosted normal mobs are necessarily a good idea, only bosses.


I know that. That was specifically for small enemies. Hitstunning them to death is one of the main reasons why N-XH doesn't feel very different despite all the number changes, and why bigger numbers and HP in small fry won't matter in whatever difficulty is next unless something changes.

Small enemies just aren't going to ever be difficult in this game, hitstun or not I feel. It disrupts of the flow if it's anything tougher than those centaur angels which were just the right amount of annoying in the 1-4 LQ. I don't think it's a big deal anyway, it's not like trash packs are particularly exciting in XIV and PSO2's trash mobs are at least more engaging than that.


If it stacked slower, was unremovable like I suggested, and decay slowly over time, it would be entirely relevant against a boss if people get hit too much.
Lets say: 10% cut a hit. Get hit 4-5 times in a fairly short window by certain attacks, and you're one or two shot-able. Automate and megiverse won't fix it.

4-5 hits is how many I take over the entire course of an average deus while only half paying attention because it's such a joke of an EQ normally, it would be completely and utterly irrelevant. Nevermind the existence of classes like Hero, Gunner, and Fighter which are by design never supposed to get hit in order to maintain Hero Boost/Showtime/LB, this would do absolutely nothing to make the game harder except for the most incompetent of players. The way the classes are put together in this game, you are not supposed to get hit, ever, with the small exception of a few classes. Giving 4-5 hit leeway that wears off over a short time is the same as not having anything at all, which is why I said it'd need to stack to punishing levels within a couple of hits - which would end up being more or less the same as what we have now.


That's the general idea behind my suggestion.Cranking more enemy attacks to hit for 1k+ and saying 'the game is fixed now' is lazy. The game should be made more difficult through enemy aggression, and cutting back the potency of stuff like automate making players pseudo-invincible. Not just one-shots, which pretty much addresses automate-tier healing power in the laziest way possible. I'd rather see something like 'if you get hit X amount of times, no matter what healing you have, you will drop on the next hit'.

I disagree. The existence of automate is to negate the effect of small attacks like the little light bolts for the less agile classes like Hunter or Ranger, allowing them to charge their powerful attacks while shrugging off the small hits while not losing momentum by being forced to heal. The problem is that everything is a small hit right now that can barely do over half your health, even on the slow attacks that are supposed to be punishing. Automate is fine, the problem is that everything in the game unboosted is basically a small attack. And even if you nerf automate, Megiverse and Resta still exist. The fact is is that healing outpaces damage taken in this game, but the thing that's poorly designed isn't the healing (which in a fast paced action game like this should be fast and effective), it's the damage we're taking.

[GHNeko]

You absolutely do not need a techer in boosted ult amd like you used to need a ranger in Elder/Loser/Magatsu. It makes things easier obviously, but that's not even close to a fair comparison.

No, you don't need a Te in boosted UQ, but people even remotely pushing in the direction of "well maybe you shouldn't gear for only attack/pp even though this has been the meta for the game for the past 5 years" and "bring a Te main if you want to survive attacks that are clearly too strong for the average defense of a super majority of the end-game players that follow the meta in terms of gearing" is basically the starting point for requiring Te to have decent runs.

You don't have to be a genius to extrapolate this.

Disregarding the current state of the meta in regards to gearing simply to make a counter point of "stop gearing for attack and gear for defense, and if you don't want to do that; bring a Te" is in the same ball park because on one side of that statement, you're advocating for an extremely expensive and frustrating paradigm shift in gear that will affect basically every mid-tier to high tier end-game player OOOOR the more more sane alternative of "Bring a Te main whereever you go."

Just because Sega boosted the attack power of UQ enemies a little too much? A limited time versin of UQ mind you. That we have no clue if its going to be the future norm or not. Because who knows if SEGA finds that this was a bit too much and opts for the route (again) of making enemies more of an HP Sponge like they did in EP3 and EP4 when it came to Kuron/Earth enemies?

smh

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Giving 4-5 hit leeway is the same as not having anything at all

1: No. There are people that can get hit 10+ times with automate and be in 0 danger. My suggestion would get those people KOed in ~half as many hits and no amount of healing will save them from the result of so many mistakes.
2: This is why I said my suggestion is open to playing with the %s. Think 10% cut per hit isnt punishing enough? Give it a few more % per stack.


which is why I said it'd need to stack to punishing levels within a couple of hits - which would end up being more or less the same as what we have now.


What we have now against some enemies in Ult amd is a situation where you either get one shot, or just back off and heal to full, and try again like usual. So you just want more of that, and call it 'difficulty'?

I don't know about you, but it feels more cheap than difficult getting hit for 1200 on random quick attacks from the likes of boosted ult Anga.
Or if the player doesn't get one shot, it's back to automate/megiverse making people nearly invincible, which you'd probably complain about since it more or less gets rid of the 'difficulty', and it's just business as usual, but with slightly higher numbers.
Then what? Ask for more enemy damage to actually one shot players so situations like like i described in the first sentence happen more?

If this isn't what you want, or how you see things, what do you suggest then?

PS: Why aren't you asking for more bosses that fight like gruzoras, and deadlion instead of asking for things to just hit us stupidly hard?

[GHNeko]

Also, I'd like to add

making the game more punishing for players who have MH, Megiverse, IW/NGU, and AM just because they're inherently too tanky

just makes builds like FoFi, FiBo, FiBr, GuFi, etc even more frustrating.

You know? The completely viable builds that dont rely on tanking skills? The ones that rely on player skill to compensate for the lack of safety while rewarding them with extra power?

Yeah. The game is littered enough with hitboxes in its current state. Let's not make random swipes that are fast, but not intended to kill, start killing out of the blue.

Enemy attack boosts to stupid levels isn't okay. It's fine for temporary content, but not as the standard.

[tsundere4you]

FFXIV is an RPG that was designed by removing as many choices the player can make as possible. Every single weapon, shield, head, body, hands, waist, legs and feet equipment slot has VIT on it. If you enter an instance you are guaranteed to have a minimum amount of HP that you cannot lower. You have no choice in this matter. The game does not allow you to exchange VIT on your weapon or armour for more STR. Enemy strength in terms of damage output dealt is balanced around this minimum item level.

In PSO2 you do have a choice. You can do a glass cannon build but your HP will be lower than what the devs expected when deciding the amount of damage the enemies will deal. Sega could have forbidden players to enter ult amdu if they didn't have a minimum of 1.2k HP similar to how you need a minimum item level to enter instances in FFXIV. However Sega likes to give players options, so if you want to enter with 700 HP they won't stop you. Many can make this work as should be evident by the number of no damage runs that have been done. Sega is completely in the right to allow players this option if they are capable.

Complaining that increasing damage from enemies doesn't make the game harder or is cheap or whatever is irrelevant. All games have some set damage value the enemies will deal that is based around the expected HP of the player. This game, being an RPG that allows choices in how you allocate your stats, means that if you are getting your ass kicked because you decided to go full glass cannon, then you made a poor choice and should probably rethink that choice. You have options, use them.

The game also has to be balanced around people who stack defensive stats. Arguing that enemies shouldn't be dealing more than 500 HP per hit like they have been thus far because that suits your particular glass cannon build just fine is ridiculous. In any RPG worth its salt you tailor your equipment to the situation at hand. The only way these complaints would be valid is if there were no options left to increase survivability and that's most certainly not true.

[tsundere4you]

Also, I'd like to add

making the game more punishing for players who have MH, Megiverse, IW/NGU, and AM just because they're inherently too tanky

just makes builds like FoFi, FiBo, FiBr, GuFi, etc even more frustrating.

You know? The completely viable builds that dont rely on tanking skills? The ones that rely on player skill to compensate for the lack of safety while rewarding them with extra power?

Yeah. The game is littered enough with hitboxes in its current state. Let's not make random swipes that are fast, but not intended to kill, start killing out of the blue.

Enemy attack boosts to stupid levels isn't okay. It's fine for temporary content, but not as the standard.

The game is not going to require every single defensive skill in the game to survive a single hit. The boosts right now can be managed fine with a minor amount of HP from affixes / base HP from units / resists. God forbid maybe taking HP drink instead of attack. Long ass attacks that deal over 1.5k you shouldn't even be getting hit by in the first place.

This is an RPG. Adapt.

[GHNeko]

The game is not going to require every single defensive skill in the game to survive a single hit. The boosts right now can be managed fine with a minor amount of HP from affixes / base HP from units / resists. God forbid maybe taking HP drink instead of attack. Long ass attacks that deal over 1.5k you shouldn't even be getting hit by in the first place.

This is an RPG. Adapt.


Spoken like someone who doesn't run any of the aforementioned builds.

First of all minor HP/Def/Resist aren't going help tanking hits in boosted UQ. Also, UQ is filled with hits that aren't long/slow that hit up to 400+ damage easily now. You're going to need to invest a decent amount into defensive/survival affixes for a reasonable rate of survival.

Secondly, you don't need all the defensive skills in the game in order to survive a single hit. At the very least, all you need is AM for builds that run Hu sub. That way they can have up to like 30 chances to survive hits that don't outright KO them.

Builds like FiBr and FiBo with Izane/Zein units and HP affixes; don't have that luxury.

I run around with 400 HP in LB with FiBo and get clipped for 401~700HP all the time in UQ. And these aren't like super slow and hella telegraphed attacks. These are just one of the many small fast attacks that can occur from off-screen in the clusterfuck of hitboxes that make up UQ.

So no, it's not a matter of simply adapting. In order to easily survive more than a single hit in the current UQ, You'd need to completely redo affixes just so I can maybe reach 500HP and survive maybe 10-20% more often. And that's stupid when no content in the game requires and ever required that level of survivability. Ever.

like come on.

Guts Drink and minor HP affixes aren't going to be enough. If you actually ran these builds, you would know this.

[tsundere4you]

Spoken like someone who doesn't run any of the aforementioned builds.

First of all minor HP/Def/Resist aren't going help tanking hits in boosted UQ. Also, UQ is filled with hits that aren't long/slow that hit up to 400+ damage easily now. You're going to need to invest a decent amount into defensive/survival affixes for a reasonable rate of survival.

I'm using glass cannon saiki units with around 960 HP that are old as hell because nothing has made me want to upgrade them. My defensive stats are lower for this content than I would like, I get one shot by attacks I could survive with slightly more HP, but I'm still able to get through plenty of runs without dying once. If this content wasn't here for just a week I would affix a bit more HP so I could play more comfortably. Minor defensive boosts like I mentioned because that's all I feel is needed, your mileage may vary. If amdu got boosted with 200% attack permanently then I'd just affix even more HP. If I was playing FO I'd probably need more HP affixes or something else on top of that to get high enough survivability. That's what I mean by adapting. And yes if you need to invest into another unit set with more survivability because the content demands it then so be it. How is that in any way, shape or form an issue? Because it's not how the game has worked until now? The game has tons of options for survivability and it's about time the content starts to demand some of it.

The rest of your post about limit break; I wasn't referring to running limit break full time in these missions when I said adapt with regards to your gear. If you get one shot during limit break then so be it, that's the price you pay. Get better at dodging or blocking. At some point gear should not cover for limit break so you can take random stray hits, that's just something you'd have to accept and pick better times to limit break instead. If that kills the viability of the class because it hinges on limit break being up as much as possible then oh well, better hope Sega makes improvements to that combination outside of limit break in that case.

[oratank]

I run around with 400 HP in LB with FiBo and get clipped for 401~700HP all the time in UQ. And these aren't like super slow and hella telegraphed attacks. These are just one of the many small fast attacks that can occur from off-screen in the clusterfuck of hitboxes that make up UQ.


use limit break and die ok i get it

[GHNeko]

I'm using glass cannon saiki units with around 960 HP that are old as hell because nothing has made me want to upgrade them. My defensive stats are lower for this content than I would like, I get one shot by attacks I could survive with slightly more HP, but I'm still able to get through plenty of runs without dying once. If this content wasn't here for just a week I would affix a bit more HP so I could play more comfortably. Minor defensive boosts like I mentioned because that's all I feel is needed, your mileage may vary. If amdu got boosted with 200% attack permanently then I'd just affix even more HP. If I was playing FO I'd probably need more HP affixes or something else on top of that to get high enough survivability. That's what I mean by adapting. And yes if you need to invest into another unit set with more survivability because the content demands it then so be it. How is that in any way, shape or form an issue? Because it's not how the game has worked until now? The game has tons of options for survivability and it's about time the content starts to demand some of it.

The rest of your post about limit break; I wasn't referring to running limit break full time in these missions when I said adapt with regards to your gear. If you get one shot during limit break then so be it, that's the price you pay. Get better at dodging or blocking. At some point gear should not cover for limit break so you can take random stray hits, that's just something you'd have to accept and pick better times to limit break instead. If that kills the viability of the class because it hinges on limit break being up as much as possible then oh well, better hope Sega makes improvements to that combination outside of limit break in that case.

ResidentSleeper

Getting through UQ without dying isn't the problem. The problem is that attacks are just completely disproportionately strongcompared to mid-tier and above players.

The problem with what you're saying by telling people to " just get new affixes/gear" is that people invest millions of meseta and dozens, if not hundreds of hours into farming end-game units.

The problem is you're casually telling people, "yeah sure just farm extra izane units or extra welia boards. Just get yourself another set of Izane/Qliph units and put like maybe an extra 50HP on each of them then you'll be fine." When the shit your suggesting isn't even normally necessary in the first place.

The problem is making limited time content that demands a complete re-evaluation of how you gear is not in anyway good or appropriate, especially when there is no precedent for such a thing in the first place.

People's time and resources are limited so demanding all this shit out of the blue for a limited time only is just a slap to the face and doesn't make anyone but those who invested in defensive units happy.

Also, invalidating builds and classes out of timed content out of the blue is also another way to shit on people's efforts.

It's just stupid. Don't disproportionally increase attack power to something the whole community has never once had to deal with with no warning all for some limited time content. That just frustrates people. Sega has been creating content around the meta for years now and there are other ways to create challenging content in ways that dont bother people.

Speeding up attacks and adding extra attacks like they did with revamped PD was a great way of making harder content other than "lol atk power 5x."

If you're gonna create content that requires survivability, then it damn well better be balanced as such.



Also, "just dodge better and not get hit" is horrible advice because UQ is the type of content where if you're performing well that you're going to get hit due to aggro. You just need to limit how much you get in in the first place. Which is what I do in NORMAL UQ. I can manage to keep my hits in UQ to acceptable levels, even during LB. But when when you lazily bump up attack values like this, then all of a sudden the builds I sink dozens upon dozens of hours into suddenly is too much of a liability?

That's also stupid.

[Dark Mits]

The problem with what you're saying by telling people to " just get new affixes/gear" is that people invest millions of meseta and dozens, if not hundreds of hours into farming end-game units.

The problem is you're casually telling people, "yeah sure just farm extra izane units or extra welia boards. Just get yourself another set of Izane/Qliph units and put like maybe an extra 50HP on each of them then you'll be fine." When the shit your suggesting isn't even normally necessary in the first place.

The problem is making limited time content that demands a complete re-evaluation of how you gear is not in anyway good or appropriate, especially when there is no precedent for such a thing in the first place.Yes, and I agree. But you don't need to create an entirely new gear setup. As mentioned before you have 3 options that are not gear and class specific that can change this:
Defense Up from Team Tree
Deband or Guts drink from campship
Jerky or Marinade
And of course, using that tech that has a blue arrow pointing upwards. I'm near certain most people will say "wtf is that, what does it do?". Or using Debanrides.

Yes you will lose ~50% atk. But you will gain ~50% more def. Without changing your equipment, and without changing your class and skill points. The option exists. Try it out.

Only "but muh dps" players have an issue with this test Sega is doing.

[Tenlade]

Yes, and I agree. But you don't need to create an entirely new gear setup. As mentioned before you have 3 options that are not gear and class specific that can change this:
Defense Up from Team Tree
Deband or Guts drink from campship
Jerky or Marinade
And of course, using that tech that has a blue arrow pointing upwards. I'm near certain most people will say "wtf is that, what does it do?". Or using Debanrides.

Yes you will lose ~50% atk. But you will gain ~50% more def. Without changing your equipment, and without changing your class and skill points. The option exists. Try it out.

Only "but muh dps" players have an issue with this test Sega is doing.

Def means nothing because death means nothing. Usually at worst, you wait a bit before revival, and dumping more into damage would offset time wasted dying and more importantly, takes less effort.

Also best defence is a good offense. if you die in 3 hits, why work increasing that to 5 or 6 when you can just kill the boss before his 3rd attack, and farm it faster?
This is a problem that plagues every game from dark souls to monster hunter to pso2, dps will always be the more efficient and easier option.

also if sega wants something other then dps they shouldnt have made the entire focus of time attacks, challenge mode, solo boss fights, solo xq with timed spawns all about killing as fast as possible. Sega beat it into players heads that dps is most important, there's no undoing that without starting over.

[Dark Mits]

Also best defence is a good offense. if you die in 3 hits, why work increasing that to 5 or 6 when you can just kill the boss before his 3rd attack, and farm it faster?
This is a problem that plagues every game from dark souls to monster hunter to pso2, dps will always be the more efficient and easier option.
This is an excellent argument and the reason why the atk-meta exists. Since the goal is always to deplete the enemy hp to 0, then the fastest way to do that is the winner option.

MMOs with trinity or similar systems do not follow that. The goal there is again to deplete enemy hp to 0. However, you need people who are dedicated in keeping the enemy's attention and in one place. And there are people who are dedicated in restoring whatever damage the first party receives. And there are people who are dedicating in enhancing the capabilities of the first 2 parties. etc. PSO2 lacks this role system even though similar abilities are actually already coded.

Now imagine the following. Imagine that Sega implements a new gaming mode: Attrition mode. In it you fight infinite enemies and the game ends when the party dies. Enemies gain more atk per wave without a cap. Reward is based on how many waves were cleared. In this hypothetical mode, the meta would be to go full defense, because full atk would reach stage X the quickest, but players would die. Full defense would ensure they can pass stage X even though it would take longer to reach it.

[GHNeko]

Yes, and I agree. But you don't need to create an entirely new gear setup. As mentioned before you have 3 options that are not gear and class specific that can change this:
Defense Up from Team Tree
Deband or Guts drink from campship
Jerky or Marinade
And of course, using that tech that has a blue arrow pointing upwards. I'm near certain most people will say "wtf is that, what does it do?". Or using Debanrides.

Yes you will lose ~50% atk. But you will gain ~50% more def. Without changing your equipment, and without changing your class and skill points. The option exists. Try it out.

Only "but muh dps" players have an issue with this test Sega is doing.

>~50% more def

no not really.

Deband drink is only 20% to base stats. Same with tree boost. Deband is 19.7% while Deband item is less. End game units are around 320-340 Def per stat. A full set of units is at least 960 defense. Average defense values are around 1800-1950. So Units make up at least 50% of your defense. Deband-related things don't boost your defense from units.

Male Human FiHu has SDef of 745. With all the deband shit, it jumps up to 1284. With units you can break 2300 Sdef.

That still isnt enough in boosted UQ.

I would know. My FiBo breaks 2300 SDef in UQ. :wacko:

This is only looking at SDef. FiHu has 100 less RDef and TDef, meaning those deband boosts scale less and so you don't gear nearly the same oomph running pure defensive boosts, and UQ has a handful of R and Tatks that will shit on you regadless of how high you stack boosts.

Defense boosts aren't enough unless you stack to ridiculous proportions. The attack boost is just too much; plain and simple.

Your best bet for UQ survivability, are timed affixes that can get you up to 100 def per type. But that's about it.

[Kondibon]

In my experience increasing your hp and resistances is more valuable than defense anyway. But that's fine. No need to take any of that into account. :wacko:

[GHNeko]

In my experience increasing your hp and resistances is more valuable than defense anyway. But that's fine. No need to take any of that into account. :wacko:

This is true, especially for LB. Which is why Weila Board and Izane is so valuable.

That and the units are always exclusive to some limited content.

[MightyHarken]

So basically this whole post can be resumed in. "We´re dying, remove this hard content" and players saying "git gud scrubs". Stop crying babies; Its going to be removed soon either way. Remember that you always have the option to go play SH mode as well. No one is forcing you to play XH. Just till the week ends, k?

[Keilyn]

hmmm.....
Isn't XH relatively easy now compared to when it first came out due to all the weapons and units released, along with the whole hero class thing?
I'm confused.....

Or did they actually spike up the difficulty while I've been gone?

[ArcaneTechs]

In my experience increasing your hp and resistances is more valuable than defense anyway. But that's fine. No need to take any of that into account. :wacko:
To an extent yes but stuff like Gryphon/All Res3/Stamina3/ability3/Junk doesnt remotely help out in the long run, everyone is (the non casual people) all about speed and efficiency but there are builds that can accommodate these things (the HP+resist things) just people are uhh either misinformed or lazy (and ya, i guess lack of guide as well)


So basically this whole post can be resumed in. "We´re dying, remove this hard content" and players saying "git gud scrubs". Stop crying babies; Its going to be removed soon either way. Remember that you always have the option to go play SH mode as well. No one is forcing you to play XH. Just till the week ends, k?
I don't understand the complaints, the current boosts are perfectly fine and SHOULD stay here, I like that Profound Invasion actually lasts a good while not under 5mins and that AM UQ is a lot funner than before (even solo). I have people on my team running in non expert blocks getting roughly 20->35min PI runs, this is just ridiculous along with people running out of moons and what not

I guess the only people who want these gone are the non expert block players/casuals/muh obscure build that i think is good but really isnt crowds.


hmmm.....
Isn't XH relatively easy now compared to when it first came out due to all the weapons and units released, along with the whole hero class thing?
I'm confused.....

Or did they actually spike up the difficulty while I've been gone?
XH was really only challenging on release then gradually got easy and still is and with the Release of Hero XH is basically N or idk H mode now thanks to current gear. Just people need to learn the play their classes better or something

i still dont miss your long ass wall o text posts you still make

[escarlata]

I don't understand the complaints, the current boosts are perfectly fine and SHOULD stay here, I like that Profound Invasion actually lasts a good while not under 5mins and that AM UQ is a lot funner than before (even solo). I have people on my team running in non expert blocks getting roughly 20->35min PI runs, this is just ridiculous along with people running out of moons and what not

I guess the only people who want these gone are the non expert block players/casuals/muh obscure build that i think is good but really isnt crowds.
I'm pretty sure the reason why people are upset is because numerical boosts are just band-aids solution to the problem and is not the direction of how people want content buffs to go. PD rework is an example of increasing difficulty done right. People want more mechanically intensive content that actually adds to the gameplay instead of taking away from it.

Numerical boosts is a textbook example of the latter, you just feel like you are fighting the same content for an unnecessarily long period of time (PI is actually one of those EQ who didnt get a HP scaling with the WB change so you are essentially fighting the same content with 10x as much bulk), except with the lightest of hits actually killing you this time. When every hit is gonna kill you, it makes boss fights less enjoyable by making boss mechanics moot, considering this makes them less deadly than normal attack patterns. Dodging is rewarded yes, but every other tactic is made irrelevant; managing burst skills with CD becomes much less rewarding; proccing conditional abilities like Crazy Heart and Super Treatment with Elder's freeze and Luther's burn is almost impossible in the current iteration; etc.

I'm perfectly fine with this being a temporary buff, because it gives me another worthwhile EQ to run (if only for the 14* which I'll never get) but it should never stay for good, because that indicates that sega probably doesn't have plans to make mechanical changes to Elder and Luther for a long time.

Ult Amd boost is done in a much better way than PI, the only thing that makes it more annoying is the fact people are either just dying left and right, or just running around trying to stay alive.

[ArcaneTechs]

I'm pretty sure the reason why people are upset is because numerical boosts are just band-aids solution to the problem and is not the direction of how people want content buffs to go. PD rework is an example of increasing difficulty done right. People want more mechanically intensive content that actually adds to the gameplay instead of taking away from it.

Numerical boosts is a textbook example of the latter, you just feel like you are fighting the same content for an unnecessarily long period of time (PI is actually one of those EQ who didnt get a HP scaling with the WB change so you are essentially fighting the same content with 10x as much bulk), except with the lightest of hits actually killing you this time. When every hit is gonna kill you, it makes boss fights less enjoyable by making boss mechanics moot, considering this makes them less deadly than normal attack patterns. Dodging is rewarded yes, but every other tactic is made irrelevant; managing burst skills with CD becomes much less rewarding; proccing conditional abilities like Crazy Heart and Super Treatment with Elder's freeze and Luther's burn is almost impossible in the current iteration; etc.

I'm perfectly fine with this being a temporary buff, because it gives me another worthwhile EQ to run (if only for the 14* which I'll never get) but it should never stay for good, because that indicates that sega probably doesn't have plans to make mechanical changes to Elder and Luther for a long time.

Ult Amd boost is done in a much better way than PI, the only thing that makes it more annoying is the fact people are either just dying left and right, or just running around trying to stay alive.
ah ok from this point of view i agree with everything you said, if they went about revamping like they did with PD i would be all for it 200% but ya i understand the band-effect isnt the best solution (ya its lazy) and they could have honestly done better. I couldnt very well tell what they did to AMUQ, it felt the same? maybe because HR is just melting everything iunno even when i ran it solo i couldnt really tell

I was under the impression (still am) that people are just bad in general and wanna complain about everything (which they do).

[GHNeko]

More or less what escarlata said.

Bumping up attack values to stupid levels <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< making new content that is actually mechanically different and more challenging.

While lazy, XH Luther having his clock shielded after being broken until you broke his arms, was a way of forcing players to engage with the boss himself that trumps giving SH Luther 20x HP and 6x Attack Power as an alternative method of making the fight harder.

If you tell me tha tyou'd prefer SH Luther with 20x HP and 6x Attack power over XH Luther, then you and I just wont be eye to eye because that's just boring and dumb.

[Flatflyer]

Honestly I like the system of these boosted bosses because they feel more rewarding than the current rush for loot we have in most EQs.

I'd much rather have boss fights which take longer but have a significantly higher drop chance over easy bosses with low drop rates.

keeping up a system like that would be a win for everyone, we'd get actual challenge out of the game without it heavily impacting the amount of overall loot we get negatively even if there's the occasional failure. boosted PI is a perfect example of this, the boss fights take around 10-15 mins for an average party to actually complete, and usually at least one person will come out with some 13-14* drop, the boss fight feels satisfying and rewarding, Sega needs to understand that longer, tougher boss fights with more significant drops would keep people so much more interested and still give casual players the ability to come across some neat finds occasionally.

[Kintama]

hmmm.....
Isn't XH relatively easy now compared to when it first came out due to all the weapons and units released, along with the whole hero class thing?
I'm confused.....

Or did they actually spike up the difficulty while I've been gone?

Haha you wish

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So basically this whole post can be resumed in. "We´re dying, remove this hard content" and players saying "git gud scrubs". Stop crying babies; Its going to be removed soon either way. Remember that you always have the option to go play SH mode as well. No one is forcing you to play XH. Just till the week ends, k?

Spoken like a person who didn't bother reading a damn thing.


I'm pretty sure the reason why people are upset is because numerical boosts are just band-aids solution to the problem and is not the direction of how people want content buffs to go. PD rework is an example of increasing difficulty done right. People want more mechanically intensive content that actually adds to the gameplay instead of taking away from it..

P'much. I'd say it's a simple, and legit grievance.




Or did they actually spike up the difficulty while I've been gone?

They just multiply HP and atk levels on enemies in certain quests every few weeks... so no.

[Zephyrion]

I'm pretty sure the reason why people are upset is because numerical boosts are just band-aids solution to the problem and is not the direction of how people want content buffs to go. PD rework is an example of increasing difficulty done right. People want more mechanically intensive content that actually adds to the gameplay instead of taking away from it.


Well, PD revamp also got numbers rework and tighter gate system coming with it, so there is DEFINITELY a need for simple number modification even though that alone is not enough

And let's face it, SEGA is never going to re-work some old content, simply because they don't have the human means to do that while keeping the content updated. I already see people bitching about the lack of new content, and I imagine most of the people that complain about the tiniest things already would give SEGA a huge backlash if they just stopped updating or giving minor updates for several months for the sake of re-working older content. they might re-work a few EQs but that's the best we'd get given how packed their update schedule is. It's a problem most older games face, and sadly there is not an answer that can satisfy everybody.

[Kondibon]

Well, PD revamp also got numbers rework and tighter gate system coming with it, so there is DEFINITELY a need for simple number modification even though that alone is not enoughNo one is arguing against numerical buffs, the're arguing against just multiplying everything on a boss and calling it a day.


I imagine most of the people that complain about the tiniest things already would give SEGA a huge backlash if they just stopped updating or giving minor updates for several months for the sake of re-working older content.I wouldn't. I actually get really excited when they go back and revamp or update old things because it means there's something for me to do besides wait for EQs. But then again I also want a very specific kind of content that they've been moving away from.

[AirinMikune]

For the longest time, I wish they would introduce something akin to making an Austere weapon.

That weapon alone made a few old content relevant, at least farming the mats.

If the BQ weapon can be upgraded with stuffs like:

100 Qhipald Fuse
100 Ether fuse
100 Cleasis
100 Schvelle
10 Arena Booster
10 Weaponiod stone
50 Union Booster
100 of each Falz Fragment
10 of each Large stone from AQ
etc.

People will be inclined to run old content.

Rings can be also upgraded to Ex.1 up to 5 by combining it with the same ring at +20 making gathering relevant as well.

[Kintama]

For the longest time, I wish they would introduce something akin to making an Austere weapon.

That weapon alone made a few old content relevant, at least farming the mats.

If the BQ weapon can be upgraded with stuffs like:

100 Qhipald Fuse
100 Ether fuse
100 Cleasis
100 Schvelle
10 Arena Booster
10 Weaponiod stone
50 Union Booster
100 of each Falz Fragment
10 of each Large stone from AQ
etc.

People will be inclined to run old content.

Rings can be also upgraded to Ex.1 up to 5 by combining it with the same ring at +20 making gathering relevant as well.



yeah no, locking a weapon behind a tour de france of quest chaining (especially boring ones) is not going to fix anything, certainly the mixmaxing fangirls will log in and play bad content for the sake of higher numbers, but not the people looking for a fun experience..

[AirinMikune]

For one, it will at least makes those ghost town quest something worth out of.

Fun is a relative term anyway, I use to loathe the arena until I found out you can hoard 40% affix from it weekly so I tried it and I actually enjoy it.

Without some incentives to try a quest, no one would really run them and they wouldn't know if they like it or not.

A vast majority of people hated TACO but yet it is relevant since it has some nice incentives to run it.

Free field/Arks quest made accessible due to it being a daily quest.

A lot of people whine about lack of content but in reality we have a lot, just not utilized properly and adding a weapon like Austere, while not a fix, certainly a welcome change.

Also the quest chaining of boring quest you mention already exist, it is called the Collection file and is more gated especially with it needs certain EQ to finish.

[Meteor Weapon]

This game has too much stuff it feels like a chore just to get most of the stuff done so people just don't do it. Honestly, doing BQ feels like a chore to get it done for me. I guess most MMO tend to make the game as if it is your 2nd life or something.

[Moffen]

Boost the hanz/franka/revelle etc client order meseta rewards and i'll run everything and its mother

[sparab]

yeah no, locking a weapon behind a tour de france of quest chaining (especially boring ones) is not going to fix anything, certainly the mixmaxing fangirls will log in and play bad content for the sake of higher numbers, but not the people looking for a fun experience..

People define fun experience differently.

Farming the same quest 90000 times for a 14* that is probably never going to drop is not very encouraging as well.

[Kintama]

People define fun experience differently.

Farming the same quest 90000 times for a 14* that is probably never going to drop is not very encouraging as well.

Is this even about loots in the first place? I'm only playing this week for the beefed up bosses themselves and i'm happy to see 4 digits damage on my face here and there, just give players entertaining fights instead of waving the 14* carrot around our faces.

[sparab]

Is this even about loots in the first place? I'm only playing this week for the beefed up bosses themselves and i'm happy to see 4 digits damage on my face here and there, just give players entertaining fights instead of waving the 14* carrot around our faces.

Thought it was another "RNG drop versus pickup stone" debate. I am still surprised how many people would prefer hopeless grind than having a visible goal.

[Dark Mits]

Yes, adding new mechanics for players to tackle is what most of us would like. However:

1) It is a lot more costly to think of, implement and then test new mechanics than to simply change the value of a variable.
2) Let's assume they implement one super amazingly fun mechanic that feels extra rewarding to play correctly. If the enemy that uses it dies in about 0.15sec from the moment he spawns in the map, is this new mechanic worth it?

[ArcaneTechs]

This game has too much stuff it feels like a chore just to get most of the stuff done so people just don't do it. Honestly, doing BQ feels like a chore to get it done for me. I guess most MMO tend to make the game as if it is your 2nd life or something.
uhh where've you been since the dawn of MMO's? remember, you don't HAVE to play the game



if it wasnt for this boost week i probably wouldnt have gotten back on, nothings changed and nothing significant is changing the rest of this year, might as well wait on pso3 at this point or something

[Selphea]

They don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just change Ult Lili and Nab to Amdu's format and have an NT exchange for Slave and Nemesis with improved pots as well as 12* exchange for Guranz and Diabo units. And then do the same for Challenge Mode's items.

Right now any good gear is gated behind a fairly easy EQ drop so they really shouldn't be surprised that people aren't logging in outside EQs, and once they get their shiny they plain don't log in. Cleasis & friends are nowhere near best in slot so obviously people wouldn't care for a 2100 medal grind.

[darciaz]

The content is reliant on a dps race, which tends to be unique to this RPG in general, so the amount of content you can stick into it while being "fresh" tends to be limited.