Hero Class: Sword vs. Talis vs. Guns

[Asellus]

Ok, it's been bothering me for a while so I have to get opinions. What's better? Sword, Talis, or TMG?

Of course I have my preference as I'm sure all of you do as well. Personally I think sword is king when it comes to Hero class because it's so versatile. Vapor bullet is god-tier especially with target lock. Sword can replenish PP from a distance while dealing damage and deal an outrageous amount of damage from kamehameha when used properly.

Talis is great, I enjoy switching from sword to talis in combo attacks especially, plus talis replenishes large amounts of PP per hit. I don't use talis action but that's only because I maneuver around bosses with sword's vapor bullet (jumping dodge + extra jump, then auto lock + vapor bullet). Blast off a non-charged kamehameha and alternate with vapor bullet.

My least favorite weapon is tmg. Although hero tmg is fast dps it's a PP drain and replenishing PP means having to stop attacking while becoming vulnerable to attacks. Since Hero builds up a higher offense over time with the Hero Boost skill, taking a hit means losing dps. IMO tmg have their place in Hero's repertoire for handling lightweight mobs but I wouldn't boss with it.

Observing other Hero's in this week's Profound Invasion EQ and running Ult Amd I have to say, tmg and talis exclusive Hero's need to get on that sword game. With a sword, while suspended above boss types (jumping dodge + jump) Hero can easily build offense with vapor bullet and non-charged kamehameha while avoiding damage with ease, retaining Hero boost and delivering unimpeded damage.

Which Hero weapon do you think deals the best dps against boss types, and which Hero weapon do you think is better suited for smaller mobs? Of course everyone has their play style, though it seems like some players treat Hero as an upgraded version of gunner.

I made this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CveFmZLLoI) to argue that HP/PP is irrelevant on Hero if Hero is used properly. Phaleg is just the opponent, the technique used is what I'm trying to highlight in the video.

[AirinMikune]

I like sword because I can cheese my way to boosted falz by just using double jump, rising slash then cancelling it once I gain the altitude and repeat it until I am at the very top, lock on the core and spam Vapor Bullets and recover with weapon action.

You will be airborne indefinitely, dishing out continues attack while being safe from boss attack.

If they going to be lazy and implement the game with a stat boost, might as well learn how to cheese.

You can do a similar things with Talis as well but to gain altitude, you need to keep on cancelling Rising Slash.

41385

[FantasyHeaven]

Sword are overall broken and can do everything, using them in dailies/weeklies is a necessity because it shaves off hours every week yada yada
TMGs are much more fun though and better at mobbing than sword against large amounts of enemies in a line like in buster quest, also most of the buster quest enemies have their weak points in places where they automatically get hit with TMGs so I prefer using them.

[milranduil]

With a sword, while suspended above boss types (jumping dodge + jump) Hero can easily build offense with vapor bullet and non-charged kamehameha while avoiding damage with ease, retaining Hero boost and delivering unimpeded damage.

the problem with this is you aren't countering, hero's best dps for all 3 weapon types. yes you are safe, but if you really want to improve your gameplay/dps, learn to counter attacks rather than playing scared.

[AirinMikune]

Why do most people always try to push people to dodge and counter attack like it is something a skilled player should do while on the contrary, countering is easy as shit to do with a huge active frames where you can perform it.

The problem with sword counter is, its really a short range slash, sure it does a lot of damage and fills up your hero meter but I rather just stay airborne and have a constant stream of DPS without a fear of losing my hero damage by getting hit and stopping for a bit to anticipate a dodge.

It works wonders on UQ when fighting Anga, while you waste your time to trying to dodge like a 'pro' you claim to be, I am just hovering on top dishing them mad DPS and I do know I outdamage most of the players because Anga got the Talis resist after I switched to it when he got the sword resist, which I was the only one with Talis on the MPA.

I wonder how can you really outdamage a floating Vapor of bullets spammer when you are busy trying to counter and chase a teleporting boss through a maze load of different attack coming from different angles. You would most likely lose the hero boost by getting hit and you will be hit despite whatever claims of how good you are with countering and dodging(show me your player record with 0 death to prove me wrong otherwise).

[final_attack]

-snip-

Tmg + Talis Hero here (though if things call for it, I did go sword, felt rarely tho) .....
since I can't afford the money to build another unit (AtkBonus for Sword + Talis came from Mod + Apprentice I made for my Gu), more trained on long range fight, and 1 of the major reason I still play PSO2 for so long is for dual-gun class (played since CBT, Gu announcement is a very sweet treat back then).
[SPOILER]I also still find step to be pretty hard (and I want that high-damage-pin-point-PA for Gu, to solve hitbox problem)[/SPOILER-BOX]
Well, main preference is of course Tmg. That PA options .....
As for reloading ...... It is pretty important for me, since I can plan a bit while reloading (it doesn't take long to completely fill my PP (123)). I also usually switch from other weapon to Tmg for PP recovery.
Having the option of range also means I can see the field more ..... (it's harder to do point-blank-fight in TPS, especially when it's very crowded with other players).

Talis mostly used on boss fight .... Usually I do : (manual switch to Talis) JetWheel + WiseHound + RacerEdge + DiveBullet (switch back to Tmg). Every now and then (after some time had passed for WiseHound or I see the boss ran from JetWheel)
It's also my preferred weapon when doing Counter with normal attack (Tmg and Sword counter slides a bit).

As for Sword ..... a bit .... problematic for me with high PP consumption of BrightnessEnd (well, still great AoE) .... so I usually just SecondEdge (switch to sword) + normal + BrightnessEnd + VaporBullet (switch back to Tmg) ....

Must do weapon switches for filling Gear ;w;

[ZerotakerZX]

Talis for newbs, sword and tmg is metter of prefference. You can use only one, no swithcing, since hr is casual.

[milranduil]

Why do most people always try to push people to dodge and counter attack like it is something a skilled player should do while on the contrary, countering is easy as shit to do with a huge active frames where you can perform it.

The problem with sword counter is, its really a short range slash, sure it does a lot of damage and fills up your hero meter but I rather just stay airborne and have a constant stream of DPS without a fear of losing my hero damage by getting hit and stopping for a bit to anticipate a dodge.

It works wonders on UQ when fighting Anga, while you waste your time to trying to dodge like a 'pro' you claim to be, I am just hovering on top dishing them mad DPS and I do know I outdamage most of the players because Anga got the Talis resist after I switched to it when he got the sword resist, which I was the only one with Talis on the MPA.

I wonder how can you really outdamage a floating Vapor of bullets spammer when you are busy trying to counter and chase a teleporting boss through a maze load of different attack coming from different angles. You would most likely lose the hero boost by getting hit and you will be hit despite whatever claims of how good you are with countering and dodging(show me your player record with 0 death to prove me wrong otherwise).

let's do some quick math shall we. 1 counter for me deals 110k on anga with full hero boost, one vapor deals 11.5*6 = 69k. which do you think is better dps? in case you can't figure it out, swiki will answer for you
vapor vapor normal dps - 1589
counter - 4118

even a hero who just lost hero boost does more dps with counters than a max hero boost vapor spammer. you're welcome to think you know what you're talking about, but numbers don't lie. man up and counter.

[SteveCZ]

Gotta use them all and must know when to use them against the right enemy. ;)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

TMG is honestly rather lackluster.

Started to irk me a bit when doing Ult Amd all this week, and I've been hearing several people's brand new star attacks non-stop, especially from people fighting anga a mile away.

It's alright for BQ.




Which Hero weapon do you think deals the best dps against boss types, and which Hero weapon do you think is better suited for smaller mobs? Of course everyone has their play style, though it seems like some players treat Hero as an upgraded version of gunner.

Outside of counterspamming with sword, talis would be the strongest boss dps if your atk stats back it up decently. I'm using S atk heavy units from Br, so that doesn't apply to me. It also gets hero time ready in under 2 minutes easily.

For mobbing against enemies that can take a hit (or 10 in stuff like boosted ult Amd), sword. For somewhat fragile enemies, TMG.

[Moffen]

Well this threads gonna go on for a while lmao

[SteveCZ]

Well this threads gonna go on for a while lmao

The art of this is, it adds variation when the recent forum posts section was all about "Is SEGA being desperate now?" :lol:

[Zorak000]

as far as I can tell its something like this:

Sword:
single target with vapor bullet + vapor bullet + 3rd basic attack, or short rising slash (throw the blade, catch it, and immediately end it) + short rising slash + 3rd basic attack
brightness end and vapor bullet can be used defensively when it is dangerous to try to counter. End's charge animation has guard frames, Vapor's animation has loads of i-frames. also, you have 360-degree gaurd frames when firing any charged aura bullet, so you can fire to block an incoming attack.

TMGs:
Mobbing with Brand New Star. Jump a little to make sure it's prioritizing headshots, feel free to use shooter mode camera to better line up your attack. Brand New Star is also the only hero PA that can be used as a counter.
flash trick can be used to stun enemies like the minotaurs when they are charging at buster towers.

Talis:
use Wise Hound and Jet Wheel to build hero gear fast if you are not getting many oppertunities to counter
Jet Wheel will drag nearby enemies into it when you use it, wise hound can be shotgunned onto a single hitbox, try to stick them onto a non-destructable hitbox if you are want to build the most gear from it.
Dive Bullet and Razor Edge are both strangely high dps and dpp, you can spam them for single target damage if you don't want to use a sword. However, be sure to weave in the 3rd basic attack for pp efficency

Counters:
sword = high damage
brand new star counter = Invincibility and AoE
talis = not sure

[Xaelouse]

The art of this is, it adds variation when the recent forum posts section was all about "Is SEGA being desperate now?" :lol:

It doesn't when it's just regurgitating old information that could be asked in the right subforum/Hero thread. It's not like any new breakthroughs happened in this game in the past months besides disappointments

[Flaoc]

let's do some quick math shall we. 1 counter for me deals 110k on anga with full hero boost, one vapor deals 11.5*6 = 69k. which do you think is better dps? in case you can't figure it out, swiki will answer for you
vapor vapor normal dps - 1589
counter - 4118

even a hero who just lost hero boost does more dps with counters than a max hero boost vapor spammer. you're welcome to think you know what you're talking about, but numbers don't lie. man up and counter.

this. all of this.. (you know who you are massive hunter ring heroes)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It doesn't when it's just regurgitating old information that could be asked in the right subforum/Hero thread. It's not like any new breakthroughs happened in this game in the past months besides disappointments

This is true.

[maoulizbeth]

Tmg + Talis Hero here (though if things call for it, I did go sword, felt rarely tho) .....
[SPOILER-BOX]
As for reloading ...... It is pretty important for me, since I can plan a bit while reloading (it doesn't take long to completely fill my PP (123)).

one hundred and twenty three pp?

this comment hurts my soul.

[Altiea]

It doesn't when it's just regurgitating old information that could be asked in the right subforum/Hero thread. It's not like any new breakthroughs happened in this game in the past months besides disappointments

I mean, it's more productive than pointlessly trashing the game.

Anyways, I don't think any of the weapons are better than the others. They all have a niche.

Sword's strength is in raw damage and DPS vs. single targets. With its normals and PAs, it can dish out the highest standard DPS than the other two weapons can with their own normals and PAs, which is why it's the favored go-to for raids. It has okay counter power, and good HTF output.

TMG's strength is in crowd control and counters. You can tack on a lot of damage very fast against groups faster than your other weapons with TMG PAs, and it boasts the strongest counter power of the three weapons due to Brand New Star synergy with Hero Counter. It suffers from low single-target DPS and HTF power compared to its counterparts, however.

Talis's strength is in support, mobility, and Hero Time Finish. It has the highest theoretical HTF output due to how Talis PAs and HTF interact with the other weapons, and you can tack on some extra DPS by just switching, throwing your Jet Wheels and Wise Hounds, and switching back to your DPS weapons. You can also squeeze some decent mileage out of Techniques if you choose to do so. Of course, when mained it does somewhat lower damage than its counterparts in most fields if Techs aren't factored into play.

[GHNeko]

do people honestly think hero counter isnt wtf amazing?

[Great Pan]

Idk, I just spam energy shots only. The guy who said countering is good, is a fool.

[SteveCZ]

I don't really agree if all Hero weapons are all niche though, cause sword, even if it's not the strongest in very specific situations, can arguably do pretty much everything.

Hero Counter goes without saying. But I won't be surprised if it has to be discussed here either.

[milranduil]

Idk, I just spam energy shots only. The guy who said countering is good, is a fool.

the sad part is people unironically think this. trash

[echofaith]

Idk, I just spam energy shots only. The guy who said countering is good, is a fool.

Everyone knows this is a fashion simulator :p

[AirinMikune]

That countering vs vapor bullet math is so funny.

My counter damage can go up to 150k while my vapor bullets can hit 20k each x 4 so that is 80k

150k > 80k

Yeah you are correct.

But I can throw vapor bullets every second. How often can you counter again? Assuming the sword counter actually hits since it's close range.

If you can counter every second then sure you will out damage vapor bullet spam.

So in an actual scenario, you are chasing a boss like a fool, waiting for an attack that you can counter and hopefully it hits and not leave you in a bad spot, rinse and repeat while I float above you spamming vapor bullets non stop and all my bullet hits because of lock on and lets me chase the boss due to vapor allowing you to position properly if needed.

Please enlight me again how would countering beat vapor bullets.

[Kondibon]

That countering vs vapor bullet math is so funny.

My counter damage can go up to 150k while my vapor bullets can hit 20k each x 4 so that is 80k

150k > 80k

Yeah you are correct.

But I can throw vapor bullets every second. How often can you counter again? Assuming the sword counter actually hits since it's close range.

If you can counter every second then sure you will out damage vapor bullet spam.

So in an actual scenario, you are chasing a boss like a fool, waiting for an attack that you can counter and hopefully it hits and not leave you in a bad spot, rinse and repeat while I float above you spamming vapor bullets non stop and all my bullet hits because of lock on and lets me chase the boss due to vapor allowing you to position properly if needed.

Please enlight me again how would countering beat vapor bullets.
Y-you're aware that it's possible to attack while waiting for a chance to counter right...?

[milranduil]

That countering vs vapor bullet math is so funny.

My counter damage can go up to 150k while my vapor bullets can hit 20k each x 4 so that is 80k

150k > 80k

Yeah you are correct.

But I can throw vapor bullets every second. How often can you counter again? Assuming the sword counter actually hits since it's close range.

If you can counter every second then sure you will out damage vapor bullet spam.

So in an actual scenario, you are chasing a boss like a fool, waiting for an attack that you can counter and hopefully it hits and not leave you in a bad spot, rinse and repeat while I float above you spamming vapor bullets non stop and all my bullet hits because of lock on and lets me chase the boss due to vapor allowing you to position properly if needed.

Please enlight me again how would countering beat vapor bullets.

you can attack between counters.................on anga for example you spam 1 rotation rising slash + normal3 between counters. it is not complicated.
watch and learn
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48mwQaBu61Y
[/spoiler-box]

[Gwyndolin]

Y-you're aware that it's possible to attack while waiting for a chance to counter right...?

I lol'ed, thank you.

[AirinMikune]

Regardless, the time you will be spending stopping your attack to anticipate the boss attack that you will need to counter assuming that the counter will hit the boss (countering a projectile for instance it not worth it unless you want the meter) vapor still wins as it is a non stop spam and it was already proven to be one of Hero's best DPS PA.

PP isn't even an issue as you can follow up a stage 1 charged sword weapon action for another good chunk of damage and one volley of regular aura bullets and your PP will be always full.

Didn't even bother watching the vid as it might one of those edge cases of a really hard core player doing 'perfect' runs which doesn't really apply to the majority of players.

[Saagonsa]

You can uh, step cancel attacks. You don't need to stop attacking in order to dodge.

[Masu]

you can attack between counters.................on anga for example you spam 1 rotation rising slash + normal3 between counters. it is not complicated.
watch and learn
[spoiler-box]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48mwQaBu61Y
[/spoiler-box]
I take the occasion to say thanks for the very informative/useful videos you posted since a while now. Yours and some Sizustar (I think) posted showing the gauge filling efficiency between weapons and finisher damage differences .

On topic, I favor sword and talis and would have liked to find TMG more useful but the reload downtime is really annoying to me. Trying to use PA while doing quick reload to keep going without "big" interupt is pretty annoying and sometimes makes me miss some counters. Spamming brand new star ad nauseam is very boring too. So, TMG overall are meh imho.

[milranduil]

Regardless, the time you will be spending stopping your attack to anticipate the boss attack that you will need to counter assuming that the counter will hit the boss (countering a projectile for instance it not worth it unless you want the meter) vapor still wins as it is a non stop spam and it was already proven to be one of Hero's best DPS PA.

PP isn't even an issue as you can follow up a stage 1 charged sword weapon action for another good chunk of damage and one volley of regular aura bullets and your PP will be always full.

Didn't even bother watching the vid as it might one of those edge cases of a really hard core player doing 'perfect' runs which doesn't really apply to the majority of players.
okay.


I take the occasion to say thanks for the very informative/useful videos you posted since a while now. Yours and some Sizustar (I think) posted showing the gauge filling efficiency between weapons and finisher damage differences .
thanks!

[KatsuraJun]

I can see how some people would think boosted enemies are unfair when step dodging on the class with the most generous amount of iframes is considered "really hard core" and a "perfect run."


Again and again, just because I got hit doesn't mean I can't dodge.

So much for this eh? If you need to stand still and stop attacking just to dodge properly that means you can't dodge.

[Kondibon]

Regardless, the time you will be spending stopping your attack to anticipate the boss attack
https://i.imgur.com/ElH8097.png

that you will need to counter assuming that the counter will hit the boss
https://i.imgur.com/SaeMvrU.png

Didn't even bother watching the vid as it might one of those edge cases of a really hard core player doing 'perfect' runs which doesn't really apply to the majority of players.https://i.imgur.com/GQ6K3NE.png

[AirinMikune]

Yeah, tell me how to dodge after you got flash stunned by Anga, while a laser bolt from above hits you with WB while a core bit is spinning behind you and the tornado is about to hit you and lasers pointing in your general direction while a boosted dragonkin about to tackle you.

[Kondibon]

Yeah, tell me how to dodge after you got flash stunned by Anga, while a laser bolt from above hits you with WB while a core bit is spinning behind you and the tornado is about to hit you and lasers pointing in your general direction while a boosted dragonkin about to tackle you.You man the flash stun that gives you a good 3 seconds to know it's coming, and has a really loud audio cue.

I don't even disagree that vapor bullet is useful in situations where dodging would be a liability or hero counter won't hit, but this idea that you should never ever dodge at all, even when it's your best option baffles me. I can understand using Vapor bullet when a bunch of attacks are flying all over the place, but if you're telling me that you don't even counter Elder's palm smack, I dunno what to say.

[isCasted]

You're supposed to fight dragons separately from Anga's main body. Good groups only have a few people in the center of the arena distracting Anga while others are cleaning up mobs. Mobs spawn at a decent distance from Anga's spawn, flash stun and tornado can't reach you there, and you are unlikely to be targetted by WB even if you get stunned. Lasers move around very predictably, shielding against them is very easy, it's also easy to abuse them for counters. Bits can be destroyed by collateral damage while you're fighting mobs, and they shine brightly when they're about to attack. Lasers are also very easy to destroy, as they just sit there and you can go behind them. Even if you get hit by lasers and bits, they deal very low damage even with the boost.

By the time Anga reaches phase 2 you should be fighting nothing but Anga. Anga's bits either go together with her attacks or stay far away from the body, so not seeing them shouldn't be an issue.

[Zephyrion]

Also something that people didn't mention.... Hero Counter builds gear, actually gives a very noticeable chunk at that. It also resplenishes gear during Hero Time, which means longer Hero Time upkeep with that juicy ATK bonus when it's needed. Counter is a core mechanic of the class and should be used whenever you see a clear and good window to do it for those reasons, and that's not even accounting for the extra damage as it was mentioned.

Good example is with Talis : its step attack only deals superior damage to PAs when it's able to hit a target several times, which doesn't happen that often. However, people still counter a lot with Talis instead of only using Dive of Bullet, because the Gear building is simply insane. even if your damage by countering was slightly inferior to PA damage, squeezing an Extra Hero Time out of it sounds definitely worth in several situations

[Tymek]

Sword. One-handed Sword. Best Sword.

Sword.

[Altiea]

Yeah, tell me how to dodge after you got flash stunned by Anga, while a laser bolt from above hits you with WB while a core bit is spinning behind you and the tornado is about to hit you and lasers pointing in your general direction while a boosted dragonkin about to tackle you.

You... You know you can break out of Stun, right?

[Loveless62]

Even beyond the damage and hero gear awarded, counter is just a fun mechanic to use. One of the things I miss the most when I play a class besides Hero is being rewarded so well for a successful dodge.

[Moffen]

This entire thread is a stress test.

[ArcaneTechs]

Sword>Talis>TMG

why is this thread even up for debate? the numbers have been crunched already. whether you choose to use the right weapon for the job or just stuck to your "muh playstyle" and stay at the bottom. looking at you TMG users on Deus or anything else that isnt mob killing and battery use


Yeah, tell me how to dodge after you got flash stunned by Anga, while a laser bolt from above hits you with WB while a core bit is spinning behind you and the tornado is about to hit you and lasers pointing in your general direction while a boosted dragonkin about to tackle you.
the real question is why your not countering that flash right into anga, i bet you let Dio steal your PP too instead of counter attacking that

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Yeah, tell me how to dodge after you got flash stunned by Anga

Some of us are capable of dodging that.

[inisderz]

tl;dr from this thread : git gud scrub

[maoulizbeth]

Regardless, the time you will be spending stopping your attack to anticipate the boss attack


wh-

you have like 70000000000000000000000 frames to counter

[Masu]

tl;dr from this thread : git gud scrub

https://youtu.be/khBp_FCWA6k?t=1m2s

Can't manage to link video without it to start from 0

[SteveCZ]

Can't manage to link video without it to start from 0

Edit your url by removing "?t=1m2s"

[ArcaneTechs]

https://youtu.be/khBp_FCWA6k?t=1m2s

Can't manage to link video without it to start from 0

it still baffles me people havent beaten her, shes literally the easiest/laziest content in the game and even with hero out, something isnt right if you still cant

[Geistritter]

I'm sure someone's said it before, but using only one weapon is for nerds; use them all according to what's best for the situation.

TMGs primary use is ranged crowd control against clustered enemies, or those in a file; Brand New Star is the bread and butter here, but don't be one of those schmucks that uses nothing but it against single targets, because you probably have a better option, even at range, such as Talis' Racer Edge and Sword's Vapor Bullet, the latter of which is substantially safer to use as a bonus. Second Edge is good for short rapid movement, and a burst of concentrated damage, and its Sword switch function deals solid damage. Final Storm is pretty much only for fodder killing, and Moment Trick is pretty much worthless except to remain airborne or swap to Talis while dealing damage. Overall the worst weapon in your arsenal, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it, especially in Buster Quests.

Talis is the king of building Gear; Jet Wheel and Wise Hound rack up hits, and if you combo out of them into other things, including each other, the Gear will rise that much faster. If you're actively building Gear, do this every time you initiate an encounter, even if you plan to use another weapon; combo into a PA-switch. Racer Edge is good sustained ranged damage; toss it twice, then use your normal attack (the one where you flip forward, similarly to Racer Edge's animation) to maintain PP, as the last toss in your combo gives the most. It also has insanely long tracking to the enemy if you Sword-switch from it, and travels much faster than Sword's Flash Trick, so take liberal advantage when you're ready to start slashing. Dive Bullet is slower, but you're invincible for most of it, and it gives you some air control, such as when comboing from Wise Hound into positive to launch Jet Wheel. If you're fond of using Zondeel, and you've taken All Tech PP Save -- and you should anyway because it discounts your support Techniques -- consider using Namegid Type-0, even if you don't favor damage Techniques, as it builds Gear and can stagger enemies; it also works well with Jet Wheel. Talis' status as a ranged weapon can make it hard to utilize otherwise, but give it a try and see how you like it.

Sword is the most versatile weapon you have, and most smart people will be using it most of the time because it's great in almost any situation. Its Step Counter is outrageous, so use it at every opportunity. Two Rising Slashes followed by your basic, double-slashing normal attack is otherwise your best single target damage option. Holding it down is super situational, because the followup attacks don't deal a lot of damage; please don't be one of the idiots who hold it down against bosses. You can cancel it mid-flip to quickly gain elevation, so use this when applicable. Brightness End is your standard crowd control for spread enemies; use it twice, then your double-slashing normal for heavy sustained damage that can make quick work of nearly anything. Vapor Bullet is way more powerful than one might expect, and it has invincibility frames, making it safe to use, and often your best ranged single-target option even from a pure damage perspective. Flash Trick is a good closer, and will track enemies into the air too, so don't use it exclusively to get around between fights. If you want to be fancy, combo into Talis with it to start your Gear combo, which will raise said Gear that much faster. Ki blasts deal decent damage and restore a lot of PP; as such, don't use your basic Sword attacks to regain PP unless you're hitting more than one guy. As above, consider using Namegid Type-0 when you're in the middle of a herd, because even though its damage will suck without a Tech weapon, it will build Gear, and you're at its applicable range anyway when using Sword. Again, combos well with Zondeel.

And while it's not really related, use your fucking Hero Gear. Use it against tough groups, not just bosses, and don't blow the Finish right away, because you get a massive damage increase from it until then. If you're building Gear properly, you can be using this between three and five times during an EQ. It fucking baffles me how many people don't use this at all.

[Terrence]

Some people should learn how to play indeed... others should learn how to be fucking understanding.

[FantasyHeaven]

or anything else that isnt mob killing and battery use
Which is 90% of the game. You aren't touching a mob with your shitty sword while I'm on my TMGs scrub.

[Geistritter]

Unless they use Vapor Bullet or Flash Trick because they aren't stupid.

[Loveless62]

Weird, I feel like I've seen these things discussed before on this forum, but I can't for the life of me remember where. atpRtsd

[NightfallG]

Which is 90% of the game. You aren't touching a mob with your shitty sword while I'm on my TMGs scrub.

TMGs are fun but let's not brag about being a janitor.

[Geistritter]

It amazes me that people still think that popcorn thing is cute. It's been like, fifteen years, people; get some new material.

Also, everything worth saying has already been said. Study up, baby. And don't listen to fools who "main" a weapon.

[Tunga]

It amazes me that someone got triggereed over the popcorn meme.


On-topic: I use sword and talis compliment with tmg as battery/trash mob cleaner. To each their own playstyle with hero.

[escarlata]

I believe that everything to have to say have already been said by one person or another.
Just to add on a bit to Talis, I like to store charged techs with Charge Keep(usually Zanverse) on bosses where there is downtime that allows me to do so like Deus and PI. Then when the burst window is open I have a free instant-charge full dura Zanverse into multiple Racer Edges. Or you can store Ilgrants/Ragrants before a burst if there’s someone already using Zanverse
It’s one of those mechanics that I’ve been using since my FoTe times that feels really undervalued

[Geistritter]

triggereed

Right on cue after the unoriginal material comment there, fella.


I believe that everything to have to say have already been said by one person or another.
Just to add on a bit to Talis, I like to store charged techs with Charge Keep(usually Zanverse) on bosses where there is downtime that allows me to do so like Deus and PI. Then when the burst window is open I have a free instant-charge full dura Zanverse into multiple Racer Edges. Or you can store Ilgrants/Ragrants before a burst if there’s someone already using Zanverse
It’s one of those mechanics that I’ve been using since my FoTe times that feels really undervalued

Zanverse in general is underrated, given how ridiculously good it is. If there's no one else casting it, there's no excuse a Hero shouldn't be. Any time a boss goes down or sits still, you should be popping that. Even if you're not using Charge Keep, Concentrated Zanverse charges in less than a second, more than making up for the time spent not attacking to cast it.

Speaking of Charge Keep, banking Techs with long charge times like Zonde Type-0 makes for a good opener later on in events like Trick or Treat, where there are lots of large mobs you can expect to spawn, and you can go into whatever you want from it as usual.

[NightfallG]

Zanverse in general is underrated

Fuck, agreed. Same with the megid tech that makes the orb shield. All of that stuff together with what Hr should do anyway can pump out some serious damage.

[Geistritter]

Yeah, I'm a fan of Ramegid Type-0 too. Even if you're not inclined to make heavy use of offensive Techniques -- I'm certainly not -- there are still a lot you can work with without putting on a wizard hat, and Ramegid Type-0 has a long duration, so you don't have to constantly refresh it.

If Hero has a flaw, it's that playing it well can arguably give you too much to keep track of. It can be a way to keep you engaged and prevent the game from being monotonous -- important in a game where you have to grind an insane amount to do literally anything -- but it's also daunting for some people. That can be mitigated by slowly integrating new things into your game, and the end result is pretty rewarding as you become a whirling dervish of destruction. Even if you're not running at a super high level of optimization, you can still add a lot to a quest just by dipping into your bag of tricks. They say a jack of all trades is a master of none, but Hero didn't get that memo.

[GHNeko]

orbit sword with ram0 during stun phases

Kappa

[ArcaneTechs]

Which is 90% of the game. You aren't touching a mob with your shitty sword while I'm on my TMGs scrub.
i get it, your straight garbo broski, i gurantee your using TMG's in the current BQ EQ still because you seem to think it works there in the current BQ's, why not here in the harder version? then you realize you messed up but its ok, your top tier TMG's will win the EQ right?!

If your maining TMG's for w/e reason, stay bad or show me your solo Deus Gracia Video as an example of your superb TMG skills because that weapon will never top Swords or Talis in the long run



On-topic: I use sword and talis compliment with tmg as battery/trash mob cleaner. To each their own playstyle with hero.
As it should be.

[Reilet]

TMG is garbage. Talis is okay. Sword is the only thing you should theorectically be using.

Not only does it have a far better dps than the other two, but there is weapon action. Something you should be prefiring at every possible downtime.

Also because literally every single important content has a 1.2x striking modifier and a 0.8x ranged/tech modifier (besides mother)

[Dugs]

i get it, your straight garbo broski, i gurantee your using TMG's in the current BQ EQ still because you seem to think it works there in the current BQ's, why not here in the harder version? then you realize you messed up but its ok, your top tier TMG's will win the EQ right?!

Alternatively you could not be a complete asshole and demand they provide proof of their "elite skills" while you insult them.

[Great Pan]

TMG = How to suck with style.

[GHNeko]

https://twitter.com/PONTDF/status/923092840506310656

https://twitter.com/AFOTHER1/status/922041816869777409


Sword is the overall best weapon for Hero, but lol people have been either underestimating TMG and Talis since Day 1.

While I agree that TMG isnt the end-all; be-all weapon and that a majority of the time Sword is generally a better choice.

Calling TMG ass/garbage when it has its niche use with a proper understanding of the content you're playing, is excessive and wrong lol.


TMG is garbage. Talis is okay. Sword is the only thing you should theorectically be using.

Not only does it have a far better dps than the other two, but there is weapon action. Something you should be prefiring at every possible downtime.

Also because literally every single important content has a 1.2x striking modifier and a 0.8x ranged/tech modifier (besides mother)

Talis PAs, I'm like 95% sure use Striking damage but scale off of Tatk.

TMG can headshot for 2x damage, which is something that is not hard to do when counter BNS is basically double the damage and also completely invincible; and Bullet Kunai shits out 35k+ damage for free (and can also head shot as well?)

TMG Finish can also head shot.

[milranduil]

https://twitter.com/PONTDF/status/923092840506310656

https://twitter.com/AFOTHER1/status/922041816869777409


Sword is the overall best weapon for Hero, but lol people have been either underestimating TMG and Talis since Day 1.

While I agree that TMG isnt the end-all; be-all weapon and that a majority of the time Sword is generally a better choice.

Calling TMG ass/garbage when it has its niche use with a proper understanding of the content you're playing, is excessive and wrong lol.



Talis PAs, I'm like 95% sure use Striking damage but scale off of Tatk.

TMG can headshot for 2x damage, which is something that is not hard to do when counter BNS is basically double the damage and also completely invincible; and Bullet Kunai shits out 35k+ damage for free (and can also head shot as well?)

TMG Finish can also head shot.

talis PAs count for striking dmg when considering rings, scale off of t-atk, but still use enemy defense tech modifiers. anga is the ideal example to show that talis dmg is lower than it should be if it were truly considered actual striking damage.

[Loveless62]

If your maining TMG's for w/e reason, stay bad or show me your solo Deus Gracia Video as an example of your superb TMG skills because that weapon will never top Swords or Talis in the long run

As it should be.
Are you seriously questioning if Hr can solo Gracia with TMGs? I found several videos regarding that with little effort:
[SPOILER-BOX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLohUqoFEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohhaN7FWlnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Uo6cS-Fbo
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[ArcaneTechs]

Are you seriously questioning if Hr can solo Gracia with TMGs? I found several videos regarding that with little effort:
[SPOILER-BOX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLohUqoFEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohhaN7FWlnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Uo6cS-Fbo
[/SPOILER-BOX]
i never said it wasnt doable (let alone getting faster times than the other weps) but you know fully well he wouldnt solo it without timing out or referencing a video that isnt him.

[Reilet]

TMG is pretty garbage when there is only really two place it's good for. Loser and anga (assuming you have anga aggro and hitting his head of course). It's also good for when you can kill things in 4 normal hits.

BNS takes too long to mob with on mobs with high hp, and hitting everything in sight with it on heads is impractical.
That one spinny side ways shooting PA is just so bad for anything. Just give it super armor already sega.
And the other two PA's are only good when you jump cancel them.
TMG finish has shit range to use as a mobbing tool and the 999,999 cap fucks it over.

TMG really is just normal hit spam. And sword has far better normals.

[Geistritter]

BNS takes too long to mob with on mobs with high hp, and hitting everything in sight with it on heads is impractical.
That one spinny side ways shooting PA is just so bad for anything. Just give it super armor already sega.

Brand New Star actually does pretty respectable damage if you use it during Counter frames, so it has some very specific times where it's great. Even in the Buster EQ, there are lots of enemies that use ranged attacks while approaching, and the first Attack phase where the Devil Castle pulls back and attacks, but is outside of your range, stuff like that.

Final Storm actually has a hitbox that's well below your character, so you can use it from above enemies and generally be safe from attack, while generally also ensuring headshots with it, but it has the same problem Brand New Star does, without the ability to increase its damage for a moment. Second Edge is pretty good, at least, but otherwise, yeah, your gucs aren't going to be putting in any work on anything significant.


i never said it wasnt doable (let alone getting faster times than the other weps) but you know fully well he wouldnt solo it without timing out or referencing a video that isnt him.

This is so true it hurts.

[Moffen]

ITT: People who dont know how to use a weapon properly blame it on the weapon instead of themselves for being bad

[Reilet]

Brand New Star actually does pretty respectable damage if you use it during Counter frames, so it has some very specific times where it's great. Even in the Buster EQ, there are lots of enemies that use ranged attacks while approaching, and the first Attack phase where the Devil Castle pulls back and attacks, but is outside of your range, stuff like that.

Final Storm actually has a hitbox that's well below your character, so you can use it from above enemies and generally be safe from attack, while generally also ensuring headshots with it, but it has the same problem Brand New Star does, without the ability to increase its damage for a moment..

BNS counter is nice, but sadly normal counter has better dps. And i agree, with the castle core counters. That's a pretty good spot for it, and one of the few. The real problem with Final Storm is that you aren't getting all the hits in on a target



ITT: People who dont know how to use a weapon properly blame it on the weapon instead of themselves for being bad

Yeah, try to say that again when you actually get TMG to beat Sword in anything or even Talis. Like say, over 103k dps on mother with TMG only in a four man run, or even getting over 50k on BQ with TMG

[ArcaneTechs]

Yeah, try to say that again when you actually get TMG to beat Sword in anything or even Talis. Like say, over 103k dps on mother with TMG only in a four man run, or even getting over 50k on BQ with TMG

think they were referring to the ppl who are upset their TMGs arent top tier rivaling sword cuz overall they lack skill in general

[Kondibon]

ITT: People who dont know how to use a weapon properly blame it on the weapon instead of themselves for being badAs someone who thinks the entire argument about the different hero weapons is pointless, TMGs do in fact have the lowest DPS potential out of the 3 weapons.

[Raujinn]

Im mad about sword being good cause it means yet another class to send the price of s-atk affixes up, :(

[Geistritter]

Im mad about sword being good cause it means yet another class to send the price of s-atk affixes up, :(

Now that's something I can agree with.

But hey, Hero Talis being pretty good-yet-underappreciated at least means the savvy can make use of those inexpensive Noble/Elegant Techniques.

[GHNeko]

Im mad about sword being good cause it means yet another class to send the price of s-atk affixes up, :(

im still salty over alter arma shooting up to wtf prices on ship 2

[Selphea]

TMG potential is lowest, but skill floor is lowest too. If someone's turned their brain off I'd rather they park in a corner and hold left click with TMG :wacko:

[Geistritter]

Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people prefer to do.

That and hold down Rising Edge and delight at slowly dealing hits of 20-30,000 to a single target. Why play the game when you can just hold down a button!

[Geistritter]

im still salty over alter arma shooting up to wtf prices on ship 2

Would sure be fuckin' nice if units would get Special Ability Factors already, wouldn't it?

[Tunga]

slowly dealing hits of 20-30,000 to a single target. Why play the game when you can just hold down a button!


Its not that slow and its better than pre-hero where you had noobs with broken trees dealing stupid low damage. Hell its impossible to fuck up a hero tree with how simple/basic it is.

[Geistritter]

It's pretty damn slow when pressing the button to get there did as much damage at more than twice the rate. How do people not notice that, anyway.

I mean, it's not PP-intensive, sure, but Hero doesn't have problems on that front; enemies don't tend to stay down/live past 180 PP, and you can just reload all of it whenever you want. Hero's skill tree being (mostly) idiot-proof doesn't stop people from screwing it up once they get on the ground.

People even screw up the skill tree to an extent; how many people say Flash Guard's useless on the class that loses sixty percent of its damage when you lose too much HP?

[GHNeko]

It's pretty damn slow when pressing the button to get there did as much damage at more than twice the rate. How do people not notice that, anyway.

I mean, it's not PP-intensive, sure, but Hero doesn't have problems on that front; enemies don't tend to stay down/live past 180 PP, and you can just reload all of it whenever you want. Hero's skill tree being (mostly) idiot-proof doesn't stop people from screwing it up once they get on the ground.

People even screw up the skill tree to an extent; how many people say Flash Guard's useless on the class that loses sixty percent of its damage when you lose too much HP?


the game is filled with casuals. there are more non-tryhard/non-serious/non-semi-serious players than opposite.

Not only that, but with the non-JP reading crowd, the ingame tutorials are not only not fully all-encompassing in the things you should know, but also illegible.

[Geistritter]

That's no excuse. We're a species of experimentation; the way we live is entirely based on us as a whole pushing against our established bounds. If the people who developed the computer technology that'd eventually become what you're typing on figured their first impression of things was all there was to things, there would be no such thing as computers.

I could easily be considered a casual, but I'm not content with being obviously dragged along by far superior people, either; it's a waste of my time, and it's a waste of theirs. It has nothing to do with status, or bragging to people on the internet, or feeling smug; it's just not practical to be garbage, and it's an insult to everyone involved. It's seriously that simple.

Also, the tutorials don't explain everything, even to the literate; there's tons of shit this game doesn't ever explain, and I'm fully willing to admit that's atrocious design, but there's still no excuse for running around with your +6 NT weapon and accounting for three deaths on the Deus rematch while everyone else desperately tries to prevent you from losing everything. People put more effort into justifying their bad decisions than they would just making better ones, and the benefits would far outstrip whatever righteous indignation they'd get from being stubborn for stubbornness' sake.

Seriously, I just did a Mining Base Demise that hung on by a thread the first time, and produced the exact opposite result the second time solely because three or four Japanese players that could be bothered were on board that time. That kind of result goes way beyond being a "tryhard", or being able to read tutorials; it has everything to do with an internal mindset, and the results are embarrassing.

Impotent whining aside, it was pretty impressive watching those guys go to work.

[GHNeko]

There are people who just don't care to improve in a video game. That's fine. It's a game. Not seeking to improve in an action mmorpg isnt a representation of their character or anything.