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View Full Version : Number of dislikes in PhantasystarCh videos



Meteor Weapon
Feb 13, 2018, 09:47 PM
I'm not sure if this is even worth a discussion lol, and I know there's been an ongoing trend with the rate of likes and dislikes on their videos these few past months. But lately the number of dislikes is outnumbering the number of likes I'm not sure its whether people just trolling(2ch I think?) with clicking dislikes the moment they opened the video or they are honestly disappointed with PSO2 as of late. IIRC even videos of previous ep don't get that much hate.

otakun
Feb 13, 2018, 11:06 PM
I doubt it's simple trolling due to the numbers, If this was some kind of actual forum doing this just to piss off Sega then the number of dislikes would be in the thousands of difference while the videos I see are still in the hundreds. This is clearly the playerbase not happy with the current product and Sega is aware of this issue where Sakai (sp?) even made an apology for episode 5 during a live broadcast. Something people need to remember is hate isn't the worst thing for PSO2. If someone bothers to hate on something means they care enough to look at the video and show disapproval. Lower views and interactions (comments, likes, dislikes) is when it's a huge problem cause that means no one even cares anymore.

Great Pan
Feb 13, 2018, 11:43 PM
Bad management leads to the game's demise. That's all I have to say for this.

ArcaneTechs
Feb 13, 2018, 11:49 PM
This is clearly the playerbase not happy with the current product and Sega is aware of this issue where Sakai (sp?) even made an apology for episode 5 during a live broadcast.
do you by chance have the stream anywhere of this? i dont watch Sega's streams anymore for well reasons along the lines of this

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 12:59 AM
do you by chance have the stream anywhere of this? i dont watch Sega's streams anymore for well reasons along the lines of this

Sorry, I have a terrible memory, I just remember they werent on their usual set. I think it was the live broadcast where they had the Dekgeki people on.

FantasyHeaven
Feb 14, 2018, 10:13 AM
It's pretty simple, the japs just hate ep5 with every fiber of their being. I agree.

silo1991
Feb 14, 2018, 10:27 AM
It's pretty simple, the japs just hate ep5 with every fiber of their being. I agree.

if is because of gameplay i agree ,in case of the story is aceptable for me :/ and would be better is the updates were more constant (specialy if we see characters of ep 1 to 3 which were absent in EP4 )

i wonder why JP players didnt complain about the artistic direction of EP4 , at least that would make artist be more creative with the enemies desings and the story

in sumary all the dislike is because of gameplay :P

Zorak000
Feb 14, 2018, 10:42 AM
the video with the greatest amount of dislikes from what I have seen, is the dedicated video for the first wave of non-hero buffs. I take it that was people more upset that they were not nerfing hero, or they had the misconception that this was going to be the only set of buffs they were planning to do.

in my personal opinion, the way they are handling the setting is kinda bland too. The buster fields are horribly desaturated; I kinda felt the same way about the mobbing/running environment in deus esca, and while the enchanted forest looked a lot better to me, I wish they started with that sort of art direction more. Populated areas should have had a "Renascence but with Photon stuff" look, Demons probably should have looked more like Darkers, them having Darker cores on their bodies was a nice touch, but I think they should have pushed it a bit more. The Devil Castles should have looked way more like Darker Dens, you can see veins running through the carpets and stuff, but again, that really wasn't enough.

it's like cool you wanted to do a hardcore fantasy setting, but a loooot of your playerbase is kinda here because of the futuristic stuff, and it kinda shows. heck I would say xiv has a better magitech look going for it than omega


EDIT: I still don't really get the "the content sucks lol" stuff though, buster quests seemed more interesting than Yet Another Free Field Grind to start the episode with, ok yeah Arks Rally Boost was kinda lame because even max risk SHAQs are kind of a walk in the park still, and the ult nab/lilipa reworks turned -those- into Yet Another Free Field Grind, alright fine I'll shut up

Kintama
Feb 14, 2018, 12:05 PM
I miss my sandbox areas, serves them right.

Zorak000
Feb 14, 2018, 02:31 PM
personally I feel like they should get rid of a lot of stuff and just make EQs permanently available content; having the free fields around would be fine, but, if anything, they should be early game content only.

it would take a lot of reworking to make it happen though, enough that it'll never happen and I shouldn't waste the brain power trying to figure out how it would all work.

I like how they tried "use PAs to level them up!" in psu, then realized that was even worse than searching for disc drops, then went back to disc drops and realized that still also bad, so Compounds, Pets, and Advanced Class PAs either only have a single level, or level-up with the pet itself. We'll have to see if they continue this trend with the Wand PA though. (disc drops for a number of reasons, such as limiting a new player's moveset which can give them the wrong idea about a particular weapon type; like trying to learn hunter sword but not having sacrifice's bite)
They learned that having a quest that requires a specific class skill to complete in a timely manner is an extremely bad idea when you have no way to enforce Party/Multiparty composition with Magatsu at release; which slowly led them down the path to WB Jamming, and now WB in it's current state.
Buster Quests have the beginnings of a means to incentive advanced players helping lower-level/undergeared players; but well, the incentives aren't really that enticing, and you can't even help non-advanced grade 3 players!
maybe for the next game they'll be more able to implement the lessons learned here more elegantly.

Sirius-91
Feb 14, 2018, 04:42 PM
Sorry, I have a terrible memory, I just remember they werent on their usual set. I think it was the live broadcast where they had the Dekgeki people on.
That was from their live streamers asking them why do they repeat the same content over and over again (in the context here Xmas on Ice), and their reply was that their engine is pretty limited in what they can do and they don't want to spend a lot of time on it when they can just use what they already have. They apologize for it, but they blame their engine.

the_importer_
Feb 14, 2018, 05:41 PM
Can you blame the negs? When I first started playing back in 2014, it took me a year to catch up by doing everything that EP1 & EP2 had to offer. I left in spring of 2016 (before the Yamatto EQ) and when I came back in October 2017, it took me 3 months to catch up to everything I had miss.

All that's left is to get 7 classes from 75 to 80, finish my last 2 achievements for Lv50 Tech crafting and get 1000 Titles. In short, SEGA is getting lazier with every episodes.

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 07:37 PM
That was from their live streamers asking them why do they repeat the same content over and over again (in the context here Xmas on Ice), and their reply was that their engine is pretty limited in what they can do and they don't want to spend a lot of time on it when they can just use what they already have. They apologize for it, but they blame their engine.

Duly noted.

Meteor Weapon
Feb 14, 2018, 11:28 PM
That was from their live streamers asking them why do they repeat the same content over and over again (in the context here Xmas on Ice), and their reply was that their engine is pretty limited in what they can do and they don't want to spend a lot of time on it when they can just use what they already have. They apologize for it, but they blame their engine.

I don't know if they realized that their current way with repeating content is really killing the game. They probably do...but...don't want to spend a lot of time on it....ok...

isCasted
Feb 15, 2018, 03:57 AM
Regardless of whether they realize it or not, if the engine sucks they can't do shit about it. They admitted in one of the interviews that PSO2 was originally a low-budget experiment. The amount of traction it got was most likely unexpected.

At this point I mostly blame it on SoJ executives for not giving the dev team enough resources to get rid of the technical debt so that the process of making any changes to the game wasn't so painful. Japanese corporate culture is far, far from the healthiest.

Dark Mits
Feb 15, 2018, 04:45 AM
The engine may be limited when it comes to creating new unique type of content, I can understand that. But reusing assets and game logic with new textures shouldn't be a technical hurdle. I mean, they can create new fashion items without slowing down at all, so I don't think it's an issue of "the game runs out of indexing options". I don't understand why it would be hard to create a new Free Field that uses Naberius logic in environment creation using Enchanted Forest textures and lightning, and spawning Demons.

Golgotha
Feb 15, 2018, 07:20 AM
Very strange, considering the whole procedural field system seems to be designed specifically to avoid manually crafting maps and "spending a lot of time on it".
Yet they recently did everything to avoid any modular fields, up to a point map is actually a bunch of setpieces put together like Vegas or Buster.

Unless something terrible was hardcoded in 2012 into field generation algorythm, or its so inefficient that procedural generation will kill servers on peak time, then I dont understand why they can quickly add something like two AQs and make change to two ult maps, make a dengeki city map, but hesitate to do it in seasonals and ult amduscia. Unless people related to its creation have left the development long ago, and those who work today have only this much time to retrofit unused modules from previous development. But that would be bizarre.

TehCubey
Feb 15, 2018, 08:09 AM
if is because of gameplay i agree ,in case of the story is aceptable for me :/ and would be better is the updates were more constant (specialy if we see characters of ep 1 to 3 which were absent in EP4 )

i wonder why JP players didnt complain about the artistic direction of EP4 , at least that would make artist be more creative with the enemies desings and the story

in sumary all the dislike is because of gameplay :P

Nice projection. Ep 5 makes ep 4 look like a masterpiece - not just in gameplay. Story-wise, art design, everything. JP players realize this while western ones still have a hateboner for ep 4 that just won't go away. Sounds like a medical condition.

Zorak000
Feb 15, 2018, 08:56 AM
Regardless of whether they realize it or not, if the engine sucks they can't do shit about it. They admitted in one of the interviews that PSO2 was originally a low-budget experiment. The amount of traction it got was most likely unexpected.

At this point I mostly blame it on SoJ executives for not giving the dev team enough resources to get rid of the technical debt so that the process of making any changes to the game wasn't so painful. Japanese corporate culture is far, far from the healthiest.

yeah this is probably the best explanation of most of it, including the regional servers, and stuff that screams "corporate made us do it" which usually results in them later throwing us a bone or two when corporate is done looking at it

isCasted
Feb 15, 2018, 11:25 AM
The engine may be limited when it comes to creating new unique type of content, I can understand that. But reusing assets and game logic with new textures shouldn't be a technical hurdle. I mean, they can create new fashion items without slowing down at all, so I don't think it's an issue of "the game runs out of indexing options". I don't understand why it would be hard to create a new Free Field that uses Naberius logic in environment creation using Enchanted Forest textures and lightning, and spawning Demons.

The thing about technical debt is that it works in mysterious ways. A single-responsibility principle ("Every class/function does only the thing it's designed to do") is a very reasonable thing to follow until you suddenly find out that more things need to be done, but it's too late to rewrite large chunks of code in a new way, the deadline is soon, it's 4 AM on Sunday etc. So you make a compromise, let an entity or two do some extra things, assume that they're going to work under certain specific conditions (like assets having specific properties) and not handle the corner cases properly etc. Or maybe you think you can afford the debt, because you're merely prototyping and not making the final solution, so you'll do it for real later, and the "later" somehow never happens.

And then you somehow end up with unique environment creation logic for every single area in the game, each for some odd fucking reason having to pass unique data to player logic, enemy AI etc, also having to read and write some of that data to a shared global state at a very specific memory offset, allocating a very specific amount of memory that you have to guess (because there's no way to estimate it, let alone let the engine calculate it automatically; having memory amount just be adjusted as necessary automatically instead of having a chunk with a fixed precalculated size would simply be a dream) for everything and all that other bullcrap. Nobody on the team knows how it ended up this way, other than that they had some potential improvement ideas in the past that were abandoned due to time constraints. So the best you know is: 1) what absolutely must be changed when you copy and paste all of that garbage if you just want to make a copy and 2) all of the things you have to remember to change for every single thing you'll want to change. At this point you just want to assume that things will work, because you really can't be sure.

So you want to try adding a new field. Suppose you've had fields with up to 10 000 000 polygons, and fields with up to 1000 light sources (I'm really stretching it with this example, but I hope it makes a point). At the moment you only want to make sure your engine can handle 4 000 000 polygons and 600 light sources. You might expect a crash due to lack of memory, so you know you can fix that if you need to. You might have some stutter, but whatever. What happens is certainly something you wouldn't expect - the music is fucked up. After hours, maybe even days of trying to find out the cause it turns out that you did, in fact, not allocate not enough memory, but the reason it didn't crash was because it was writing data to a very much usable chunk of memory that just so happened to be shared with music. Why weren't graphics fucked up then? Oh, they actually were, you just didn't notice that shadows were slightly off. More so, the bug doesn't happen in the offline mode, because for some weird reason the networking algorithm uses extra memory because your new field has slightly rounder corners than usual, and so the memory allocator packs different memory chunks together tighter. So you are asking what kind of asshole designed it this way, and you hear a story of a guy who was fired 2 years ago who was a team leader. He dared to ask the executives to give some extra time to make the code slightly more future-proof after missing a deadline because how fucking dare he not do everything right the first time around. Yet if it wasn't for his hyper-efficient networking algorithm the game wouldn't have been shipped at all.

I am so fucking bored today...

Sonickyle27
Feb 17, 2018, 04:47 PM
Personally I would like them to revamp all the previous areas. Add new map generation chunks, add some different Emergency Codes, maybe some new enemies? Heck Advanced Quests do have some exclusive map chunks (at least Sanctum, not sure about the others) that could be used in the Free Fields too. That'd make me want to go back to the Free Fields outside of Featured Quests and gathering for a while.

If they can't add new content because of engine reasons, they could at least build on top of the assets they already have in place. A lot of earlier areas in the game look pretty rough nowadays in some cases (Tunnels' terrible object draw distance for example).

But ehh, we've got Buster Quests for now... SEGA seems to only care about recent content (*points at old dead EQs*). and buffing non-Hero classes.

Did they explain what engine limitations that they're having to deal with, other than its age? I suppose the Vita version could also be holding them back?

Golgotha
Feb 18, 2018, 04:05 AM
They were probably talking about backend engine, whatever sets up quest structure, level pattern, etrial scenarios. Its got to be platform independent.

Still hard to imagine someone would decide on using level generation system for ten years ahead and not expect it to completely clog midway to that date.

Zorak000
Feb 18, 2018, 10:51 AM
I am not sure if they really care about the vita holding them back; somebody I know said they tried a riding quest on vita and said the draw distance was so low it was basically unplayable

Sonickyle27
Feb 18, 2018, 06:38 PM
I am not sure if they really care about the vita holding them back; somebody I know said they tried a riding quest on vita and said the draw distance was so low it was basically unplayable

Yeah, I have the Vita version... It runs like complete ass in EQs, going way under 10fps when you have 12 people on screen fighting in a mob heavy quest. It feels like SEGA are pushing the Vita to its limit in some cases, but then I'm reminded of Phantasy Star Nova, which although capped at 30fps looks and plays far nicer than PSO2 Vita even with lots of action on screen.

So idk. SEGA are having to test and develop on their engine for three different platforms after all for each update.

wefwq
Feb 18, 2018, 11:03 PM
They should drop the client for vita and port the cloud version over there.