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Altiea
Feb 14, 2018, 01:16 AM
Impromptu boosted PI campaign. Guess they're trying to bring players back by recycling good boost events?

Anyway, pug rage, drops, etc. etc. etc.

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 01:33 AM
I find the boosted LQ being back more interesting cause now I can power level my friend who just joined the game.

Kintama
Feb 14, 2018, 02:38 AM
So no enemy boost for the lq? No thanks.

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 03:07 AM
So no enemy boost for the lq? No thanks.

enemy boost for what reason?

Kintama
Feb 14, 2018, 03:17 AM
For fun

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 03:18 AM
For fun

Go play Dark Souls. =P

Altiea
Feb 14, 2018, 04:10 AM
So no enemy boost for the lq? No thanks.

I don't know why you would want tankier enemies if they already turned off Dark Blast. Runs are already 25% longer as is.

Arada
Feb 14, 2018, 05:02 AM
Go play Dark Souls. =P

Without making it a Dark Souls level of punishment, they could at least make it so that a proper Techer cannot kill an entire spawn gathered in a Zondeel in 1 or 2 hits.

Moffen
Feb 14, 2018, 05:15 AM
Without making it a Dark Souls level of punishment, they could at least make it so that a proper Techer cannot kill an entire spawn gathered in a Zondeel in 1 or 2 hits.

>Dark Souls
>Punishment

//WHEEEZE
Anyway you'd have to give them all like 10m hp each,because when a techer pulls a pile in and whacks it with a wand,every mob explodes and damages eachother individually.
The bigger the pile,the easier it is to kill them.
The only way they can stop that is by giving enemies zondeel immunity (Like the skull soldiers in the skull event)
Gimping either of those solves nothing,because then you just have HRs sniping mobs a mile away with brightness end slashes.

ralf542
Feb 14, 2018, 05:15 AM
So no enemy boost for the lq? No thanks.

Just go in with bare hands and no units and you have your boost.

Dark Mits
Feb 14, 2018, 05:26 AM
Then maybe the problem isn't the low enemy hp or the Zondeel mechanic, but the fact that there is no diminishing effect on multi-target hits. Maybe Sega should consider implementing a soft- or hard-cap on multi-target PA/Tech/Autoattacks/whatever and reduce damage per target when it hits those caps. Other games did it.

Altiea
Feb 14, 2018, 05:29 AM
Then maybe the problem isn't the low enemy hp or the Zondeel mechanic, but the fact that there is no diminishing effect on multi-target hits. Maybe Sega should consider implementing a soft- or hard-cap on multi-target PA/Tech/Autoattacks/whatever and reduce damage per target when it hits those caps. Other games did it.

The thing is that Wand Tech explosions are the only attack in the game that works like this. It's one of Techer's few saving graces, because they can get astronomically high mobbing damage if you can gather enough targets into a single spot.

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 05:31 AM
Then maybe the problem isn't the low enemy hp or the Zondeel mechanic, but the fact that there is no diminishing effect on multi-target hits. Maybe Sega should consider implementing a soft- or hard-cap on multi-target PA/Tech/Autoattacks/whatever and reduce damage per target when it hits those caps. Other games did it.

Yeah, let's nerf the weakest and least played class in the game. Sounds like a great idea. :/

isCasted
Feb 14, 2018, 06:42 AM
What Mits saying is that in older Phantasy Star games every attack "swing" (I'll use that word, since "attack" can mean anything, PA or otherwise, that can have multiple swings) had a designated limit on how many enemies and hitboxes within an enemy it could hit. Once it hit that cap, it dealt no damage whatsoever to everything else that was in that swing's range.

PSO2 has a cap of 1 hitbox per enemy for each individual swing (exceptions to that rule are very rare, Penetrating Arrow being one example) and no cap on the amount of enemies it can hit (regardless of whether you line up 1, 20 or 100 enemies under your attack, all of them will always get hit).

This has almost nothing to do with the nature of how Techer's wand explosions work. Every basic wand attack is a swing that hits everything in its range, every tech explosion that is generated when that attack connects is a separate swing that also hits everything in its range. If you hit 10 Zondeeled enemies with a wand, you generate 1 wand attack and 10 explosions, leading to 10 wand attacks and 100 (!) explosions worth of total damage.

So, yes, the change he's proposing might affect Techer in a disproportionate way. So fucking what? You're calling it a tragedy like Techer can't possibly be rebalanced in other ways to compensate for it. Wand could simply have a higher hit cap. Wand could have PAs. Techer could have some actually interesting ways to engage with enemies at the melee range instead of a disproportionally relying on enemies being there in large quantities and not dying to other players before it can use a basic attack on them. I don't even necessarily agree with Dark Mits, but have some fucking faith, people.

Dark Mits
Feb 14, 2018, 07:08 AM
I'll try to clarify my point because I fear there's a misunderstanding.

First and foremost, my suggestion has no intention of nerfing any class. It has the intentional of nerfing player output regardless of class.

By diminishing returns I mean the following, which will apply to absolutely every damage source (swing, PA, Tech, Damage-over-time effect like burn, AIS Laser, Compound Tech, flashing boobs, etc)

if my attack hits 1 enemy, let it deal 10.000
If it hits 2 enemies, let it deal 10.000 to each (20.000 total)
If it hits 3 enemies, let it deal 10.000 to each (30.000 total)
If it hits 4 enemies, let it deal 9.000 to each (36.000 total)
If it hits 5 enemies, let it deal 8.000 to each (40.000 total)
If it hits 6 enemies, let it deal 7.000 to each (42.000 total)
If it hits 7 enemies, let it deal 6.250 to each (43.750 total)
etc.
(The numbers above are for demonstration purposes)

The idea is that at low numbers of enemies hit, total damage increases linearly.
After a point, damage continues to increase to provide a benefit for successfully hitting more enemies, but the rate at which total damage is increased lowers asymptotically towards a "cap". The number of enemies and diminishing rate is up to the developer.

The above idea has been implemented in many games exactly to avoid issues of ultra-mega-super damage numbers when stars align and the player hits lots of enemies with one single ability.

-=prepost note=-
As isCasted mentioned, TE can be fixed in other ways. By the way, if all the extra damage from a TE's Shifta was counted in TE's output (like Zanverse), I doubt people would be calling TE weak....

Silent_Flower
Feb 14, 2018, 08:51 AM
Well... Got scammed out of 180k for autumn Talis...

otakun
Feb 14, 2018, 03:00 PM
What Mits saying is that in older Phantasy Star games every attack "swing" (I'll use that word, since "attack" can mean anything, PA or otherwise, that can have multiple swings) had a designated limit on how many enemies and hitboxes within an enemy it could hit. Once it hit that cap, it dealt no damage whatsoever to everything else that was in that swing's range.

PSO2 has a cap of 1 hitbox per enemy for each individual swing (exceptions to that rule are very rare, Penetrating Arrow being one example) and no cap on the amount of enemies it can hit (regardless of whether you line up 1, 20 or 100 enemies under your attack, all of them will always get hit).

This has almost nothing to do with the nature of how Techer's wand explosions work. Every basic wand attack is a swing that hits everything in its range, every tech explosion that is generated when that attack connects is a separate swing that also hits everything in its range. If you hit 10 Zondeeled enemies with a wand, you generate 1 wand attack and 10 explosions, leading to 10 wand attacks and 100 (!) explosions worth of total damage.

So, yes, the change he's proposing might affect Techer in a disproportionate way. So fucking what? You're calling it a tragedy like Techer can't possibly be rebalanced in other ways to compensate for it. Wand could simply have a higher hit cap. Wand could have PAs. Techer could have some actually interesting ways to engage with enemies at the melee range instead of a disproportionally relying on enemies being there in large quantities and not dying to other players before it can use a basic attack on them. I don't even necessarily agree with Dark Mits, but have some fucking faith, people.

Considering Sega doesn't even know what they want to do with Techer I think it's more then "omg so what?! they'll just change it!" It's a stupid argument of just saying they'll just add whatever and fix whatever when they havn't done anything more with the class then add dmg and a little bit of movement in the step which was actually a stupid idea since now you step further then your attack range. I understand they should do more with the class but taking away the only good feature of the class outside of buffs seems a little stupid just cause it's helpful in random situations.

Zephyrion
Feb 14, 2018, 03:44 PM
Huuuuuuuh PI thread anybody ? I guess we can call that LQ thread.

Can kinda agree with not touching wand damage, not because it can't be abused, but because the abuse itself is only valid in a few quests, and mobs also get abused by other classes too (Divine Launcher, and RA in general wrecks this LQ beyond comprehension; a good FI does too, as it used to do in UQ, a.k.a Chaos Riser everything to oblivion). If you're going to "fix" TE then other classes might need the same damage cap system.

I'd still be more enclined for mobs to be impervious to CC at some point/difficulty/quest (not Status effects or zondeel/Riser suction, but impervious to launch, stun and interruption hitstuns) which would basically make most of the good mobbing PAs harder to use, while also making mobs more threatening (provided they also get a little more HP : we don't need Dark Souls level but to me, boosted UQ HP for mobs sounds about legit now that Atra and SSAs are a thing)

Also I'm always happy about PI just because I like those raids. Neo JP weaps being in the drop pool is nice, so I'm digging the recycling so far. It's kind of refreshing after seeing nothing but dragon these days

the_importer_
Feb 14, 2018, 03:52 PM
Great, now bring back Magatsu EQ on regular schedule and we'll be good SEGA.

Zorak000
Feb 14, 2018, 04:05 PM
they gave it sun got NTs alongside the ray weapon drops, so that's neat

Touka
Feb 15, 2018, 12:13 AM
Took more than 30 minutes with a lot of deaths on Elder.At first I thought they party just stunk then i checked bumped and saw the hp was raised to 500%.Loser felt like older Loser where it took a while to kill him,was pretty fun tbh.

wefwq
Feb 15, 2018, 03:13 AM
The stat boost should be permanent tbh.

Dark Mits
Feb 15, 2018, 04:34 AM
The stat boost should be permanent tbh.They would have to provide greater bonuses than 200% rdr for that though. As it is, boosted PI is relatively more difficult and time consuming than other EQs that can drop 14*s.

Kintama
Feb 15, 2018, 04:44 AM
Remove the rdr boost for all i care, keep the stats boost without the 200% rdr and done the eq is fun until powercreep hits again.

Dark Mits
Feb 15, 2018, 04:48 AM
Remove the rdr boost for all i care, keep the stats boost without the 200% rdr and done the eq is fun until powercreep hits again.The majority of players do not run content for fun, they run it for the reward. There's a reason why everyone says "Harko spam x5" instead of "run 5 different TAs". If boosted PI was more difficult, more time consuming and also rewarded less, then it would be ran by a very small part of the playerbase.

Moffen
Feb 15, 2018, 04:51 AM
Remove the rdr boost for all i care, keep the stats boost without the 200% rdr and done the eq is fun until powercreep hits again.

Thats how you kill an EQ.
Dragon is already suffering from this because its rewards are utter garbage and you can pick them up in the LQs anyway.

SteveCZ
Feb 15, 2018, 06:53 AM
I do run dragon EQ for the reward, but I also enjoy this boosted EQ more than its reward. So I guess it can go both ways at least to me.

Kintama
Feb 15, 2018, 08:31 AM
I hope you're not a représentative sample of the playerbase or this game is doomed.

@Moffen

otakun
Feb 15, 2018, 09:27 AM
I hope you're not a représentative sample of the playerbase or this game is doomed.

@Moffen

Look at all the people who do UQs, PVP and Challenge Mode when there isn't a reward boost going on ... oh yeah, there aren't any. People don't do harder content unless it gives something worth doing.

SoulSighTy
Feb 15, 2018, 09:39 AM
I think they need to made some boss Eqs more tougher and impossible to clear within Eq up time. And made time limit to around 45-60 mins. So ti will hard to do multi-ship or maybe multi-account too.
With this SEGA can fix the drop rate to be better and fair for everyone that pass the Eq.

Dark Mits
Feb 15, 2018, 09:54 AM
I think they need to made some boss Eqs more tougher and impossible to clear within Eq up time. And made time limit to around 45-60 mins. So ti will hard to do multi-ship or maybe multi-account too.
With this SEGA can fix the drop rate to be better and fair for everyone that pass the Eq.This sounds good on paper, but doesn't work in practice due to the wildly different group performances.

If an EQ requires 45mins to clear for the average non-expert random mpa, then an expert organized mpa would clear it in possibly 10-15mins.
If it requires 45mins for the expert organized mpa, it would be impossible to clear in a non-expert random mpa.

We have Deus's last phase as a means to judge that. The boss hp for the last 5-min phase was nerfed by 30% because failure rate according to Sega was too high. At the same time if I remember correctly, there were mpas who could clear the unnerfed version with 2mins to spare.

The best way to "prevent" multiruns is to put a hard limit per account. But this is unfair for players who do manage to clear it quickly. Ideal would be to implement a sort of cmulative penalty per run, so that it is still advantageous to run an EQ multiple times, but not at a linearly increasing benefit. For example, 2nd run has -50% total exp and -50% total items drop, 3rd run has -75% total exp and -75% total items drop etc. This way the chance of getting the ultra rare items is not affected, but the player does not get 100 xcubes per EQ, putting him at a great advantage over the newbie/noobie who only got 20 from his only run (and if he managed to clear it)

isCasted
Feb 15, 2018, 10:06 AM
I, personally, quit doing Dragon EQ long before its rewards became useless, simply because I realized that every fight goes exactly the same way. No strategy, no choice, no depth (pretty much like everything in EP5). Even when you're not busy repositioning, it's either you get hit or you don't, and that's just boring.

I also can't care about boosted PI anymore (boosted Loser, to be more specific. Nobody really gives a shit about Elder, right?). It felt refreshing back when it was first up simply because I was missing that kind of experience. Now, however, I can see that without significant speed boosts and improved attack duration/AOE/whatever it also boils down to just whaling with an occasional need to dodge after a while. Sure, buffed HP pool and ATK can compensate for our greatly increased DPS, but DPS is not the only thing that matters. Our own attack speed and mobility was buffed so much that choosing a correct set of attacks for every opportunity simply becomes meaningless. If, supposedly, you could land 2-3 attacks whenever a damage opportunity happened back in the day, nowadays you can land 7-9 without feeling a threat, and our greatly increased ability to respond to those threats (through longer iframes, cancel frames and especially block frames with things like Deadly Circle T-0 and motherfucking Charge Parry skills) greatly diminishes the value of those threats, regardless of how much more damage they actually deal.

When the EP3 rebalance happened, they knew it was going to break a lot of such valuable experiences, even if the intent of the rebalance was very clearly to improve the experience. While quests that have already been more about mopping up brainless shits like Elder and TD1-3 just had their HP values buffed during a transition to XH, Loser was given a special attention precisely because he wasn't meant to be a brainless shit. All of the new content, regardless of whether it had brand-new enemies or reused EP1-2 ones, had the new philosophy applied to it.
EP4 had a lot of buffs to players too, but it also did absolutely fuck-all to the old enemies. Neither enemies that were meant to be brainless shits nor enemies that weren't were adjusted in any way. The level of engagement hasn't dropped as radically as in EP5 for multiple reasons. EP4 rode the inertia of EP3 enemy HP buffs, because they were that ridiculously huge (except for Loser... because he got 1.25x HP and not 4x). That, and then there was also some sense of challenge from a brand new quest design philosophy that spammed you with cheap shots from all directions and telegraphed attacks obscured by lighting issues and other enemies. At the same time, a lot of the new balance changes also weren't there just for sake of balance and/or comfort - they actually offered brand new ways to approach old enemies. Some felt more satisfying, like IF-0; some felt cheaper and stupider, like DC-0 and Charge Parry.
As for EP5, it's almost all the way about adding more cancel frames, faster speeds, wider AOE, lower cooldowns, but barely anything that's actually game-changing for the older classes to make them actually feel fresh to compensate for lowered enemy danger level. And even when it did add things that felt fresh, old enemies are still incredibly slow and brainless, so it basically makes no difference whatsoever outside of select few encounters. And PI is definitely not one of those.

New enemies in EP5 are also boring. They aren't annoying and cheap like a half of EP4 enemies. There's just not a whole lot of ways in which you can approach them. They're clearly test dummies for Hero, and even then they're just test dummies. There's exactly 1-2 correct ways to avoid every attack, each one only has 1-2 attacks that they spam and there's no element of figuring out a strategy based on their composition. Dragon isn't much better than an average mob, all it takes is slightly better reaction time and patience to trivialize him. I have no hopes for Omega Loser for a simple reason that its gimmick is most likely going to be 1-2 extra surprise attacks that will not only improve literally nothing in terms of strategy, but probably even ruin whatever strategic depth was left there in the original fight after all the years of balance mutilation.

In some way, a relative success of EP4 was basically a miracle, and EP5 director wasn't as lucky. But there's another problem: the current directors' lack of understanding of what "gameplay depth" means is incredibly apparent in everything that's happening in EP5, and that is the driving issue that's really making people less tolerating towards its other faults, even if some those faults were present to a much greater degree in older episodes. Shame, because I have to give EP5 direction credit for fixing quite a few bugs and performance issues that have been plaguing the game for years. And Hero has a great value as a sort of a research experiment highlighting both how much better and how much worse the game could be in different ways.

Kintama
Feb 15, 2018, 02:07 PM
I, personally, quit doing Dragon EQ long before its rewards became useless, simply because I realized that every fight goes exactly the same way. No strategy, no choice, no depth (pretty much like everything in EP5). Even when you're not busy repositioning, it's either you get hit or you don't, and that's just boring.

I also can't care about boosted PI anymore (boosted Loser, to be more specific. Nobody really gives a shit about Elder, right?). It felt refreshing back when it was first up simply because I was missing that kind of experience. Now, however, I can see that without significant speed boosts and improved attack duration/AOE/whatever it also boils down to just whaling with an occasional need to dodge after a while. Sure, buffed HP pool and ATK can compensate for our greatly increased DPS, but DPS is not the only thing that matters. Our own attack speed and mobility was buffed so much that choosing a correct set of attacks for every opportunity simply becomes meaningless. If, supposedly, you could land 2-3 attacks whenever a damage opportunity happened back in the day, nowadays you can land 7-9 without feeling a threat, and our greatly increased ability to respond to those threats (through longer iframes, cancel frames and especially block frames with things like Deadly Circle T-0 and motherfucking Charge Parry skills) greatly diminishes the value of those threats, regardless of how much more damage they actually deal.

When the EP3 rebalance happened, they knew it was going to break a lot of such valuable experiences, even if the intent of the rebalance was very clearly to improve the experience. While quests that have already been more about mopping up brainless shits like Elder and TD1-3 just had their HP values buffed during a transition to XH, Loser was given a special attention precisely because he wasn't meant to be a brainless shit. All of the new content, regardless of whether it had brand-new enemies or reused EP1-2 ones, had the new philosophy applied to it.
EP4 had a lot of buffs to players too, but it also did absolutely fuck-all to the old enemies. Neither enemies that were meant to be brainless shits nor enemies that weren't were adjusted in any way. The level of engagement hasn't dropped as radically as in EP5 for multiple reasons. EP4 rode the inertia of EP3 enemy HP buffs, because they were that ridiculously huge (except for Loser... because he got 1.25x HP and not 4x). That, and then there was also some sense of challenge from a brand new quest design philosophy that spammed you with cheap shots from all directions and telegraphed attacks obscured by lighting issues and other enemies. At the same time, a lot of the new balance changes also weren't there just for sake of balance and/or comfort - they actually offered brand new ways to approach old enemies. Some felt more satisfying, like IF-0; some felt cheaper and stupider, like DC-0 and Charge Parry.
As for EP5, it's almost all the way about adding more cancel frames, faster speeds, wider AOE, lower cooldowns, but barely anything that's actually game-changing for the older classes to make them actually feel fresh to compensate for lowered enemy danger level. And even when it did add things that felt fresh, old enemies are still incredibly slow and brainless, so it basically makes no difference whatsoever outside of select few encounters. And PI is definitely not one of those.

New enemies in EP5 are also boring. They aren't annoying and cheap like a half of EP4 enemies. There's just not a whole lot of ways in which you can approach them. They're clearly test dummies for Hero, and even then they're just test dummies. There's exactly 1-2 correct ways to avoid every attack, each one only has 1-2 attacks that they spam and there's no element of figuring out a strategy based on their composition. Dragon isn't much better than an average mob, all it takes is slightly better reaction time and patience to trivialize him. I have no hopes for Omega Loser for a simple reason that its gimmick is most likely going to be 1-2 extra surprise attacks that will not only improve literally nothing in terms of strategy, but probably even ruin whatever strategic depth was left there in the original fight after all the years of balance mutilation.

In some way, a relative success of EP4 was basically a miracle, and EP5 director wasn't as lucky. But there's another problem: the current directors' lack of understanding of what "gameplay depth" means is incredibly apparent in everything that's happening in EP5, and that is the driving issue that's really making people less tolerating towards its other faults, even if some those faults were present to a much greater degree in older episodes. Shame, because I have to give EP5 direction credit for fixing quite a few bugs and performance issues that have been plaguing the game for years. And Hero has a great value as a sort of a research experiment highlighting both how much better and how much worse the game could be in different ways.

tldr; EP5 shifted the game from an RPG to a beat them all, it's like a final fantasy 1 party with the knight, the white mage, the monk and Bayonetta.

isCasted
Feb 15, 2018, 02:45 PM
Absolutely not at all what I meant. A more appropriate analogy would be like going from Bayonetta to Dynasty Warriors 9. Or, to be more generous and ignoring difficulty, from DMC to Furi. The RPG side of the game is pretty much irrelevant to my point.

the_importer_
Feb 15, 2018, 09:45 PM
EP5 is a visual novel with 2 EQ, 1 regular quest which is a repetition one of the EQ, 1 limited quest which was reusing assets of other episodes and a new limited quest which uses assets from that said EQ which is also a regular quest.

wefwq
Feb 16, 2018, 01:33 AM
They would have to provide greater bonuses than 200% rdr for that though. As it is, boosted PI is relatively more difficult and time consuming than other EQs that can drop 14*s.
Naturally they have to make the reward better so the effort vs. reward is in par with other EQs.

Zorak000
Feb 16, 2018, 11:56 AM
EQs were a mistake

there are so many bad interactions between their limited time nature, being the place where generally the latest gear is coming from, and general player progression, that I dont really know where to start.

failure conditions can compound the issue, but I guess that's why they started implementing the Rematch Quests. kind of a ducttape-and-paperclips way of trying to go about it, but I guess that's what I've come to expect from pscrew ever since psu

possibly the biggest issue this game has is just a general lack of information on sega's end. and the large amount of things a regular player could miss entirely if they weren't keeping up on everything since day one, or have friends who do so for them. even then I had a friend who had played katana braver for months, and never knew you could block until they were trying to clear the first set of floors of Heaven and Hell. Granted, that was before they added the training quests, but after going through them myself I can't help to think that they need to so something more with those. heck give individual class level-cap release orders that make you at least run them like hero has, maybe a bad example since there are still plenty of bad heros out there, but I'd say my point still stands.

like there will always be people who ignore everything and mash through all the tutorial popups and stuff, but I feel like sega could stand to help out a bit more by maybe just giving new characters all (regular) PAs and techs at level 1 so people can at least play with a weapon's entire moveset right off the bat, make gear skills automatically learned, idk.

EDIT: anyway back to the first point, they should have made EQs work somewhat similarly to how they got Buster Quests working: all EQs are just always available, you can run whatever you want a set amount of times in a time period, but you can recover those by helping some rando clear the EQ they wanted to run and you get some kind of alternate reward you could use for more endgame-y upgrades like exchanging them for affixing fodder units. I don't think they will ever do this, especially since they already implemented EQ triggers for Star Gems, but it won't stop my imagination from running wild I guess

otakun
Feb 16, 2018, 12:07 PM
The simple fact that the non EQ content dies so quickly after release destroys any argument against the EQ system. A decent amount of people still do old EQs while you could barely get 12 for any of the other content atm. Not saying the EQ system is flawless cause its far from that but I believe the EQ system is keeping the game more alive then not.

Loveless62
Feb 16, 2018, 03:16 PM
EDIT: anyway back to the first point, they should have made EQs work somewhat similarly to how they got Buster Quests working: all EQs are just always available, you can run whatever you want a set amount of times in a time period, but you can recover those by helping some rando clear the EQ they wanted to run and you get some kind of alternate reward you could use for more endgame-y upgrades like exchanging them for affixing fodder units. I don't think they will ever do this, especially since they already implemented EQ triggers for Star Gems, but it won't stop my imagination from running wild I guess
This is the way I saw BQs: as basically EQs on demand (TD EQs, no less). I am not sure why they seemingly died off. Maybe because it is the same EQ all of the time.

While we are on the topic, allow me to puke a couple of ideas that I had about EQs onto this forum:

Change the EQs to allow players to run them whenever they wanted, but impose a weekly run limit on them, say five runs a week (pretty much just like the run limits on solo XQs). I came up with this by thinking of how World of Warcraft's raid lockout system could be applied to PSO2, and I think it would look like this.
Allow teams to purchase EQ triggers with team points. This could be cool, but I would be worried about potential firestorms of team drama as team leaders and managers have to decide who can participate in 12-player MPAs, and when they would run the triggers. Part of the solution may be to make the triggers cheap or make the number of triggers available large (possibly increasing as the team levels up). This would need to come in combination with the already existing EQ system, since we wouldn't want to exclude players from EQs who were in smaller teams or who were not in teams at all.


The simple fact that the non EQ content dies so quickly after release destroys any argument against the EQ system. A decent amount of people still do old EQs while you could barely get 12 for any of the other content atm. Not saying the EQ system is flawless cause its far from that but I believe the EQ system is keeping the game more alive then not.
Say what you will about the current EQ system, it still more or less successfully draws people into multiplayer content.

Kintama
Feb 16, 2018, 06:20 PM
"This is the way I saw BQs: as basically EQs on demand (TD EQs, no less). I am not sure why they seemingly died off. Maybe because it is the same EQ all of the time."

Because going back and forth from campship to play the same content over and over and OVER is not enjoyable in the slightest, at least with free explores you had a sense of adventure going on as you never always knew what would E-Codes throw at you, with bq and the current LQ you ALWAYS do the EXACT same thing, which is fine once or twice in a week between other games, but sega expects you to do it dozens, even hundreds of time, which was never fine or acceptable and in my eyes at least unveils a deep misunderstanding of video games from the PS team.

Zulastar
Feb 16, 2018, 06:56 PM
And here we're approach a question: What keep you still playing this game at all?

I have palyed about 12k hours now, 3 characters, 2 of them all-class lvl capped, 1095 achivements unlocked. Almost 3 wears every damn week I kept repeating all same boring TACO's, dailies and EQ's. For what?

First time I tried to collect and maintain strongest weapons of each category, but later I found that useless. I had enough of 13* shit now and just disassemle it unless it have some useful SAF, cause Atra release made it all useless. And common 14* just DON'T DROP. So I run all these EQ's just for Excubes incoming and any chance of getting something to sell.

And now almost all my activeness is around Player store 'cause it's a single one way to get enough money in this game. Fucking Phantasy Star of trading Online. And these scratchers and resellers keep overpricing stuff more and more with each next scratch.
Nuff said...

wahahaha
Feb 16, 2018, 07:09 PM
And here we're approach a question: What keep you still playing this game at all?

I have palyed about 12k hours now, 3 characters, 2 of them all-class lvl capped, 1095 achivements unlocked. Almost 3 wears every damn week I kept repeating all same boring TACO's, dailies and EQ's. For what?

First time I tried to collect and maintain strongest weapons of each category, but later I found that useless. I had enough of 13* shit now and just disassemle it unless it have some useful SAF, cause Atra release made it all useless. And comon 14* just DON'T DROP. So I run all these EQ's just for Excubes incoming and any chance of getting something to sell.

And now almost all my activeness is around Player store 'cause it's a single one way to get enough money in this game. Fucking Phantasy Star of trading Online. And these scratchers and resellers keep overpricing stuff more and more with each scrath.
Nuff said...

I enjoy the game, is that hard to grasp?
You are beyond burnout, seek something else and come back later.

Zulastar
Feb 16, 2018, 07:24 PM
I enjoy the game, is that hard to grasp?
You are beyond burnout, seek something else and come back later.

Staying beyond burnout keep me to not lose a pace of gaining money for presents to my current waifu from next scratch ^_^.

And about finding something else - MMO RPG is a top genre among all games now, and next MMO RPG I'll play besides this one will be VR only 'cause I had enough of same shit already. This one at least give me more opportunities which I am interested in.

Dark Mits
Feb 16, 2018, 07:30 PM
Change the EQs to allow players to run them whenever they wanted, but impose a weekly run limit on them, say five runs a week (pretty much just like the run limits on solo XQs). I came up with this by thinking of how World of Warcraft's raid lockout system could be applied to PSO2, and I think it would look like this.The problem with this idea is that it would lead to a runaway effect of everyone storming EQs at the start of the week, and end-of-week runs would be desolate places except people who cannot run early due to other obligations, and alts, just like in WoW.

Team triggers sounds amazing. There shouldn't be any drama however, because it's the same as purchasing a trigger with SG and deciding who you want to come with you. Drama only comes from people who think they deserve to be in the frontline simply because they exist.

Masu
Feb 17, 2018, 02:54 AM
And here we're approach a question: What keep you still playing this game at all?

*snip*

Nothing but the fact I like my characters enough to not ditch PSO2 from my systeme right now...My Tacos are up for my 3 chars since thursday and I don't have any will to run them...I'm around 10k hours and contrarily to you I'm lucky with drops, like I got recently Demonia Talis and my first weila arm unit after 3 LQ runs... At first I was super happy (special snowflake syndrome), then you start wondering: Cool now what? Do I really need them?...NOPE. Result they (units) rot in storage and Talis well I use it because I have it but it could rot in storage too... I would not miss it at all :v [SPOILER-BOX]I have a friend maining Fo/Te who has EPD since ages but don't use it, he doesn't give a shit about any Atra, still he soloed dragon very early using Qliphad. His units are good but not game breaking like you can eventually see in yt vidz.
[/SPOILER-BOX]
About my current behaviours in the game, I'm doing same shit as you do. Making mesetas from shop and wasting them into fashion. I skip most eq atm (just ran BQEQ yesterday wondering the whole runs why I did log for it), I occasionally derp around grinding LQ as Bo/Fi, log eventually for dailes then log off and go play MWO instead .

ZER0 DX
Feb 17, 2018, 06:36 AM
Reason is simple enough for me, I spent 17 years playing this series, so no reason to quit now. I just take breaks when there's a lull in anything I want to do in game. Right now I want to cap the last 3 classes on my main, cap out my Dark Blast skills, and unlock the last boss kill titles I need for Yamato rematch, Deus rematch, and Dragon rematch. After that I'll probably go on another break again until it offers something else that piques my interest.

pkemr4
Feb 17, 2018, 01:44 PM
having to kill further damage my sleep schedule for 14* chance sure is fun.

Side MMO my fucking ass

Flatflyer
Feb 17, 2018, 02:37 PM
EQs were a mistake

there are so many bad interactions between their limited time nature, being the place where generally the latest gear is coming from, and general player progression, that I dont really know where to start.

failure conditions can compound the issue, but I guess that's why they started implementing the Rematch Quests. kind of a ducttape-and-paperclips way of trying to go about it, but I guess that's what I've come to expect from pscrew ever since psu

possibly the biggest issue this game has is just a general lack of information on sega's end. and the large amount of things a regular player could miss entirely if they weren't keeping up on everything since day one, or have friends who do so for them. even then I had a friend who had played katana braver for months, and never knew you could block until they were trying to clear the first set of floors of Heaven and Hell. Granted, that was before they added the training quests, but after going through them myself I can't help to think that they need to so something more with those. heck give individual class level-cap release orders that make you at least run them like hero has, maybe a bad example since there are still plenty of bad heros out there, but I'd say my point still stands.

like there will always be people who ignore everything and mash through all the tutorial popups and stuff, but I feel like sega could stand to help out a bit more by maybe just giving new characters all (regular) PAs and techs at level 1 so people can at least play with a weapon's entire moveset right off the bat, make gear skills automatically learned, idk.

EDIT: anyway back to the first point, they should have made EQs work somewhat similarly to how they got Buster Quests working: all EQs are just always available, you can run whatever you want a set amount of times in a time period, but you can recover those by helping some rando clear the EQ they wanted to run and you get some kind of alternate reward you could use for more endgame-y upgrades like exchanging them for affixing fodder units. I don't think they will ever do this, especially since they already implemented EQ triggers for Star Gems, but it won't stop my imagination from running wild I guess

The idea I've had since enchanted forest came out was turn EQs into a system similar to bonus quests, where you need to pay a "Key" to access them, and these keys would just drop off relevant bosses (EP1 bosses generally drop keys for EP1 EQs, EP2 bosses drop keys for EP2 EQs, etc.) Only one key would be required for the whole party.

"Emergency quests" would still exist in the form of boosting a specific raid or set of raids for an hour or so. Triggers would be converted into "Boosted Keys" which apply a RDR boost to the quest on its own.

Ideally this would make it so a lot of content like free-fields and BQ would have some relevancy again, since people would be farming them to get keys, assuming most of the older EQs get updated to have more relevant drops (like atleast one unique set of 13*s from each major EQ)

Suirano
Feb 17, 2018, 03:13 PM
I have always seen the content that dies in week one always being the 12 player content that is always available. I've always wondered if it would be the same if it was a 4 player variant of certain EQs that could be done at any time ( which could allow soloing if needed ) and the 12 player variants still there with higher drop rates being that they aren't always around. I personally enjoy fighting Loser whenever he comes up just because I like fun boss fights but I can definitely see how those farming would want an easier method of doing so without a lot of work but I just want to have fun while farming instead of it feeling like a chore.

It really just seems too many people though have conflicting ideas of what to do to even make PSO2 seem enjoyable which I think is Sega's biggest issue as well when listening to feedback.

Zulastar
Feb 17, 2018, 03:30 PM
I would be happy if there were some Legacy points accrued for clearing scheduled EQs, which number increase a chance of getin' any Big Rare on next one, reset after it happend, or continue accumulating if not.

Zulastar
Feb 17, 2018, 09:25 PM
If you don't want to attend current EQ, you just need to get drunk or high and watch some anime or read manga/ranobe.
Fuck these EQs running, I'm completely drunk and watching Saga of Tanya the Evil right now. And fuck this Endless Belligerence running. I'll be fine without it.

Zephyrion
Feb 18, 2018, 05:20 AM
I honestly think the EQ system is alright, the issue is making content that can actually keep you busy when there is no EQ if you got an extra free hour, or just want something different from the usual pool of 3/4 EQs. It doesn't even take much tbh, Ultimate Naberius/Lilipa showed the way : You just have to use all the damn content that's sitting there and tweak it a bit to make it interesting to run.

-Free fields are standing there as gathering gardens, but people used to enjoy them alot back when the rewards were good. You could add some difficulty and tie a new beginners' weapon series reward to this ( An upgraded Revolucio of sort, which would be nice since they alone revived the free fields through CF in some way) while making e-trials more challenging, but rewarding you with stones you could use as an exchange money. Would also be an extra incentive to run dailies.

-CM was quite successful back when the shop was updated, but fell out of grace only due to vastly outdated rewards and no new map in several years. Just a new map and a shop upgrade with some random cosmetic crap would be enough (not that I wouldn't want more than this but that would still make it work)

-UQ now is dead only because boost period is over. they could very simply add a rotational boost to them (similarly to how CM boost works) 1 week gets Nab boosted, then Lili, then Amdu. I know many people that still need an extra weapon or stones, or simply want to run something different, so that would help too.

Really you can make content be worthwhile with little to no effort and asset creation. I guess what's so unnerving is that they have such a treasure mine of assets that only get used in x seasonals, when they could bring so much out of it, especially considering none of what I've mentioned is new. It's things they did and that worked, and just dusting them out with a little common sense can make them work again

Zulastar
Feb 18, 2018, 10:33 AM
-UQ now is dead only because boost period is over. they could very simply add a rotational boost to them (similarly to how CM boost works) 1 week gets Nab boosted, then Lili, then Amdu. I know many people that still need an extra weapon or stones, or simply want to run something different, so that would help too.

I still need that stupid Weila Bode from there...

Zorak000
Feb 18, 2018, 11:07 AM
I used to think EQs were alright as a means to direct everybody into a single quest; and to have quests that are objectively better than what's normally available. But there is a solution to the former, and the latter is just flawed logic.

like I said, the solution would be to let people do whatever quest they want, then when they launch the quest, the mpa would be populated by people who queued up to run anything at all. the quest starter would get to run the quest they wanted, and the mercenaries get compensated with something akin to buster medals from free matches. just that the place to exchange these medals would have stuff in them like a 6-slot Alter Arma + Extreceptor unit, or a 5-slot Soul Catalyst unit.

from there, instead of having quests that are lame just to make the cool quests cooler, why not just have only cool quests? I do agree that free fields should be kept around though, as a sort of chill environment to mess around in.

Stormwalker
Feb 18, 2018, 01:54 PM
Mostly, these days I just run SHAQ's with the occasional EQ or buster quest. I ran the heck out of the enchanted forest because I actually enjoyed the quest. The catle LQ is boring, so I don't run it much. The most fun thing in this game for me is and always has been duo'ing the 4-man quests (mainly 50-risk SHAQ and/or XH quests, everything else is too effortless these days), and I wish there was more quality 4-man content in the game.

I've never really liked EQ's, and mostly only run them because you have to in order to get decent stuff.

Saffran
Feb 20, 2018, 01:04 PM
Arks are soldiers-but-not-really-soldiers, EQ is mandatory. If anything, anybody not running the EQ should see their account suspended until the next EQ.

On a more serious note, PSO2 is pretty much the only online game I like. It's getting tiresome, but it's still way better then any alternative I can think of right now.