May 12th Announcements

[Altiea]

This one's kind of a doozy.

Trigger Loser
-- 4 players, 30 minutes, no death limit. Dalz Camo supports 9 weapons and are sellable. Trigger has a drop rate similar to Forest Trigger, but you can't get new Triggers from Trigger Loser. Also, the Triggers themselves might be sellable.

Mother/Deus "Phantom Invasion"
-- The S4 tier of SSAs will expand when the Mother/Deus joint raid EQ is added in Summer.
-- You'll have to wait, and see if new 14*s will be added...

Quna's Weapon
-- Quna's Genesis Weapon might become an accessory later on.

Level 90
-- The level cap will raise again to Level 90 later this year. All Classes will recieve new Class Skills with the update, including Hero, who will also get Level 90 later on.

Buster Quest
-- Upcoming plans for BQ include a new Emergency Buster Quest in the vein of Endless Belligerence.

14* Pets
-- All Pets will eventually have a 14* Egg, but Wanda/Jinga, Torim/Aero, and Cery/Popple are first in line.

Dark Rappy
-- Due to positive reception from Aika's Dark Rappy, they're considering adding content based on it, including a Dark Rappy Suit or perhaps even a Pet.

Crest Shop
-- Crest Shop will stay as is for the time being.

Arena
-- Boots, Rifle, and Talis will rotate in in Late June.

Class Feedback/Role/Improvement
SEGA has been going over feedback received from players concerning Class balance and play, especially after the current Pevel Cap update. They will use this data to emphasize the given roles of each individual Class and tailor future updates towards providing content that plays on each Class's strength and fixes their weaknesses.

General Improvements
-- All weapons will get a Double Jump (RIP Jet Boots)
-- All Classes will get a First Blood-type Skill
-- Some Skill Rings will become Charms

Hunter
-- Decently rated among players. Players note Hunter's strong survivability and mobbing power, but dislike the overreliance on Sword Gear and how Sac Bite 0 cancels when you switch weapons.
-- Hunter is a High Durability Class, and SEGA will emphasize this trait by adding content with lots of enemies and/or very strong enemies.

Ranger
-- Decently rated among players. Players note Ranger's support capability with Weak Bullet and the fun of using Rodeo Drive 0, but dislike the clunkiness of Dive Roll, overreliance on Standing Snipe, and how hard it is to fight with Weak Bullet loaded.
-- Ranger is a Support Type All-Rounder, and SEGA will emphasize this trait by adding Quests that have a longer duration.

Force
-- Players are split about Force. Players note the Class's high damage, ease of Compound Tech use, and improvements to mobility Techniques, but dislike its low HP/defense, cost to create Tech Customizations, and its overreliance on Element Conversion.
-- Force is a High Powet Long Distance Attacker. The Force class can be incredibly potent gjven the right situation and planning, so SEGA intends to emphasize its strengths.

Braver
-- Players are satisfied with Braver. Players note the fun of using Katana and buffs to its PAs, as well as improvements to the Braver MAG Skill and improvements to Katana mobility. However, they dislike Bow's comparatively slow mobility, lack of SP to spend, and Bow's overreliance on Divine Raikou.
-- Braver is a Mobile All-Rounder. By using Bullet Bow's strength and Katana's mobility and raw power, Bravers are able to adapt to battlefield situations on the fly, and SEGA intends to capitalize on those strengths.

Bouncer
-- Players are satisfied with Bouncer. Players note their ability to support while fighting simultaneously and the fun of using both Jet Boots and Dual Blades, and like how the weapons are balanced. However, they dislike the clunkiness of Distract Wing, lack of PA variety, and lack of subpalette space.
-- Bouncer is a Ranged Support-Type All-Rounder. Bouncer is capable of a multitude of abilities and functions on the battlefield, and SEGA intends to expand Bouncer's capabilities with new support options that set it apart from Techer and new attack options.

Summoner
-- Players are dissatisfied with Summoner. Players note the ease of use of the class and recent Pet buffs. However, they dislike how difficult and complicated it is to raise new Pets, as well as the clunkiness of certain PAs and how difficult it is to recall your Pet.
-- Summoner is a Multi-Role Pet Master whose battlefield presence changes based on their Pets. Summoner should be able to specialize in multiple categories based on the Pets they are armed with, and SEGA intends to make general improvements to Summoner playstyle to emphasize this, including loosening Pet controls and the Pet raising system, as well as strengthening Pet capabilities and Personalities.

Fighter
-- Players are highly satisfied with Fighter. Players note the Class's high damage output and the thrill of using Limit Break, but dislike the associated risks with the Skill, overabundance of Skill Rings, and lack of mobility for Double Saber.
-- Fighter is a Hugh Power Close-Range Attacker, a high risk, high return that maximizes damage output with Limit Break. SEGA intends to release content that capitalizes on this strength.

Gunner
-- Decently rated by players. Players note the buffs to Grim Barrage and relaxations to the Chain mechanic, as well as Stylish Roll. However, they dislike not having enough SP, the overreliance on Skill Rings and the difficulty of using Grim Barrage after the buffs.
-- Gunner is a Mid-Range High Burst Attacker. SEGA feels that Gunner has strong mobility, evasion, and burst. They intend to release content that emphasizes Gunner's strength as a mid-range fighter.

Techer
--Decently rated by players. Players note its support capability and strong normal attacks, with good Subclass compatibility. However, they dislike the short range of Support Techs, the difficulty in choosing what Skills to spec into, and how one-note Wand whacking is.
-- Techer is a Support-Based Close-Ranged Attacker. Techer's strength lies in its ability to support party members and the ability to still do damage even with Wand. SEGA intends to emphasize Techer's combat capabilities by improving its prowess in battle, which in turn gives it greater support ability.

Hero
-- Players are highly satisfied with Hero. Players note its high power and mobility, and are big fans of its high attack speed and the Spirit Blast. However, they dislike the Hero unlock requirements, large differences in each weapon's performance, and its low defense.
-- Hero is a Simple All-Purpose Class. SEGA intends to emphasize evasion by granting bonuses for evading damage, as well as looking into ways to boost gear accumulation for switching weapons.

Most Wanted Content
Based on the Player Survey 2018, SEGA gathered a list of content that players wish to see in the future. In order of most wanted to least wanted content:
1. New Advanced Class (61%)
2. New PAs/Techs (56%)
3. Balance Patches (50%)
4. Increased Drop Rate (50%)
5. New Free Fields (47%)
6. New Raid Bosses (47%)
7. New Class Skills (45%)
8. New Premium Set Features (44%)
9. New PA/Tech Customizations (42%)
10. New Emergency Quests (42%)

Most Wanted Quest Capacity
SEGA asked how many players future content should be designed around. In order of most wanted to least wanted player capacity:
1. 12 Players
2. 4 Players
3. 1 Player
4. 2 Players
5. 8 Players

Plans For Future Content
Based on responses, SEGA's plan for future content is as follows:
-- Release more 12 Player content
-- Equipment updates will add more 4 player and single player challenging content
-- Development is being accelerated so they can add about 2 or 3 raid bosses per Episode
-- Hero will get new Class Skills when other classes get Level 90
-- They're undergoing preparations for new PA/Techs and Advance Classes, but expect those in the future.

[Zephyrion]

As the old school, ranty and close-minded TE that I am...

Isn't TECHER supposed to huh...use techs ? I mean don't get me wrong, improving melee is all fine and dandy, but the tech aspect of the class (which still has half the masteries, access to compounds and innate T-ATK on its weapons) has been swept under the rug for the most part in EP5.

I could nitpick about other classes, but it's people's opinions, and some of them are really on point, so if the devs can process all of that correctly, it sounds promising on other aspects at least

[AlphaBlob]

I hope they release a new difficulty with level 90, the EQs are already easy enough.

[DatFox]

Bouncer
-- Players are satisfied with Bouncer. Players note their ability to support while fighting simultaneously and the fun of using both Jet Boots and Dual Blades, and like how the weapons are balanced. However, they dislike the clunkiness of Distract Wing, lack of PA variety, and lack of subpalette space.
-- Bouncer is a Ranged Support-Type Al-Rounder(???). Bouncer is capable of a multitude(???) of abilities and functions on the battlefield, and SEGA intends to expand Bouncer's capabilities with new support options that set it apart from Techer and new attack options.

... What?

[Zulastar]

Compared to Hero old classes all:
1 Moves like an invalids.
2 Melee have zero attack and PA reach (Especially Fighter DB's: Deadly Circle 0 don't reach enemies even half-step further from it's animation)
3 Slow PA activation.
4 Slow PA execution.
5 Delay after PA's end (When no need to JA it's annoying).

[Altiea]

... What?

"Japanese players are bad at Bouncer", basically.

[wefwq]

... What?
(current) Bouncer was a mistake.

[XrosBlader821]

Im actually more baffled Te has a more positive reception than Fo and Su. I completely agree with the stuff said about Su but japanese players seem to not mind the monotony of Te's Gameplay that much. Guess it explains why it took them 5 years to notice Te is a horribly designed class.

[Altiea]

Also, don't take it from me, but I heard off-hand from someone that Austere-NT upgrade might require a +35 Nemesis-NT or Slave-NT weapon.

[AnikaSteinberg]

I've seen quite a lot of players around PSO2 discussion boards that complained about certain classes (specifically Bouncer and Ranger) being regarded by Sega devs as "support" last livestream.

It's just that support =/= buffs.

支援 (shi'en), the Japanese term for "support" in video games, may be traditionally used for "buffs", but it's not in any way ultimately referring only to buffs/debuffs. It's a placeholder term for some feature or skill that is not (just) direct damage related (however ironic that may sound in an action-type RPG like PSO2).

Like, Techers melting mob hordes while other classes focus on heavier targets is one type of "support" that is not a buff.

[Hysteria1987]

Surprised that Hero was rated so highly too. Sure, it has some really cool mechanics (weapon changing PA's for instance), and balance-wise maybe it's not perfect but it's worlds better than it used to be, but I'd have figured the sheer ubiquity of the class would have pushed it down a little amongst non-Hero players.

As a FO, I'm a little surprised at the wide split between satisfied and dissatisfied too. I think FO's in a great spot at the moment, though it definitely does have HP and Def issues, and it sure can be very slow to charge certain things. I always took that as the price you pay for being powerful though, a sort of high-risk high-reward sorta deal like with FI.

Still, I like that SEGA's paying attention. Hopefully the feedback changes will be nice.

[Kondibon]

Surprised that Hero was rated so highly too. Sure, it has some really cool mechanics (weapon changing PA's for instance), and balance-wise maybe it's not perfect but it's worlds better than it used to be, but I'd have figured the sheer ubiquity of the class would have pushed it down a little amongst non-Hero players.I think it has to do with the fact that hero is kinda where people want the other classes to be in terms of playability. Even before hero came out, I personally felt a lot of the classes lacked mobility and flow, and when hero came out, it was just more fun to play.

[GHNeko]

when players mention te, they only have tehu in mind

those fucks dont even bother with tebr or tesu or tefi or even tegu before the nerfs like the basic ass individuals they are

so ofc they're like "te is one trick pony" because you play 1 version of te with a multitude of subclasses that can do more than just fucking smack with wands you nimrods

[Kondibon]

when players mention te, they only have tehu in mind

those fucks dont even bother with tebr or tesu or tefi or even tegu before the nerfs like the basic ass individuals they are

so ofc they're like "te is one trick pony" because you play 1 version of te with a multitude of subclasses that can do more than just fucking smack with wands you nimrodsTe buffs and wand whacking are the defining features of Te, why are people dumb for wanting them to be more enjoyable?

[final_attack]

Gu's mid-range attacker .....
but give ZeroRangeAdvance :wacko:
High damage PA is also close range :wacko: Would like to get that Hr's Tmg PA (with a bit reduced range or something (since Hr's Tmg can be considered long range?)), so Gu can be mid-range.

Sure, evasion is good with S-Roll .... but the long animation of PAs, imo, kinda forcing to tank things. Relatively high power for long animation PA, sure, but for some, 50%+ of the damage is on second half of the PA.

Would like to see how it goes once it's implemented.
The ..... "play with favorite weapon / class you'd like to play" is greatly appreciated (I personally don't have much time these days, so, with this policy, I'd assume I don't need to cap all classes to get extra bonus on stats (like with permanent stats of Lv75 (?))

[GHNeko]

Te buffs and wand whacking are the defining features of Te, why are people dumb for wanting them to be more enjoyable?


However, they dislike the short range of Support Techs, the difficulty in choosing what Skills to spec into, and how one-note Wand whacking is.

they dislike how monotonous it is, not that it's not enjoyable.

and im saying, "you can do more than just wand wacks if you stopped playing the te class that is only capable of buffs and wand wacks"

[AnikaSteinberg]

when players mention te, they only have tehu in mind

those fucks dont even bother with tebr or tesu or tefi or even tegu before the nerfs like the basic ass individuals they are

so ofc they're like "te is one trick pony" because you play 1 version of te with a multitude of subclasses that can do more than just fucking smack with wands you nimrods

Can confirm. Been lurking some of the JP Techer message boards for quite some time, and as a Te/Fi main, I'm actually baffled whenever they're so surprised that other Techer builds even exist.

[Zephyrion]

Can confirm. Been lurking some of the JP Techer message boards for quite some time, and as a Te/Fi main, I'm actually baffled whenever they're so surprised that other Techer builds even exist.

I mean what baffles me more is that people are still to this day vastly underestimating the tech side on Techer, which was made a lot better thanks to FO buffs trickling down to the TE part. Wind and Light techs on TE/FI (or TE/SU or TE/BR) do pack a decent punch for the versatility it adds whenever whacking proves to be troublesome ( notably against some very agro enemies or in hectic situations where you just can't allow yourself to stay in the thick of things). And no hitting less hard than FO is not a shame when you get all the plus from buffs imo. My only hope is that TE can remain a true hybrid class (by that I mean a class that can both melee and/or tech ,and get mileage from both attack types) despite people ignoring that trait which to me is what makes TE unique and defines it

[XrosBlader821]

I switched from Te/Hu to Te/Fi recently but not out of monotony but out of the lack of Combat options. I was farming Invade with a friend of mine in XQ and not having any Ranged Damage option was just the worst. I dunno why none of the Japanese seem to complain about Te lagging in DPS compared to other classes. I still haven't seen a sub 5 solo PD run on Te while every other class is fighting over sub 4.

[GHNeko]

the current mentality of "there is only one build per class" nearly all the classes is taxing enough but its at critical mass now.

people dont notice things exist until the players at the top do so, and even then, said players need to have enough of a connection to the player base for their content to go viral internally zzz


I switched from Te/Hu to Te/Fi recently but not out of monotony but out of the lack of Combat options. I was farming Invade with a friend of mine in XQ and not having any Ranged Damage option was just the worst. I dunno why none of the Japanese seem to complain about Te lagging in DPS compared to other classes. I still haven't seen a sub 5 solo PD run on Te while every other class is fighting over sub 4.

the same reason why bo jp playerbase happens to be content with bo and complain about PAs rather than damage having their class pushed as a support even tho its support is not unique or even good.

they dont know better because they're not knowledgeable about the game or their classes.

[Klubbah]

You can still note how "one-note" wand whacking is even knowing about the other class setups and Tech usage. I guess I don't know how this survey was done but can't anyone comment on any of the classes? If it was just class main reactions they could be switching to one of the aforementioned sub-classes because they don't like the smacking. They just want more stuff like the Wand PA, you can't assume they are monotonously smacking and complaining about it like they are forced to unless they are saying that.

Of course i'm just assuming too but the notion that they don't know alternatives exist because they mention something is boring seems far-fetched to me.

I mean right before that they even mention:

"Players note its support capability and strong normal attacks, with good Subclass compatibility. "

[GHNeko]

You can still note how "one-note" wand whacking is even knowing about the other class setups and Tech usage. I guess I don't know how this survey was done but can't anyone comment on any of the classes? If it was just class main reactions they could be switching to one of the aforementioned sub-classes because they don't like the smacking. They just want more stuff like the Wand PA, you can't assume they are monotonously smacking and complaining about it like they are forced to unless they are saying that.

Of course i'm just assuming too but the notion that they don't know alternatives exist because they mention something is boring seems far-fetched to me.

I mean right before that they even mention:

"Players note its support capability and strong normal attacks, with good Subclass compatibility. "

a large majority of people know about the subclasses for te, but they dont play them.

the tebr was a thing in EP2 and TeBo and TeGu was a thing in EP3, TeSu was the huuuuuuuuuuuuuugest thing due to how crazy zanverse was in EP4. then they killed zanverse and then they heavily nerfed chain on sub class and then they stopped their trend of giving a lot of JBs Te compatibility and then they nerfed banish, so the biggest gimmicks for all the other te builds went poof over night except for TeFi which only has gotten better over time, but has weaker wand smacks without chase than TeHu and the mobs melt to fast for TeFi to status so it stayed in the background for people only concerned about wand smacking.

the tech casting aspect of te has mostly gone over looked and the other te builds had singular aspects with big appeal that people where interested in. that went poof and so did those players.

[Kondibon]

they dislike how monotonous it is, not that it's not enjoyable.That's just splitting hairs.


and im saying, "you can do more than just wand wacks if you stopped playing the te class that is only capable of buffs and wand wacks"Being able to do other stuff doesn't change wand whacking though. Nothing about that quote implies that people think wand whacking is the only thing Te can do, just that it's boring. It's not about Te as a whole not having alternate playstyles, it's about one of the key gimmicks of the class's main weapon not being interesting.

Saying wand whacking doesn't need to be more interesting because Te has other builds is like saying Hu weapons didn't need a buff because Fury Stance and automate made it a good subclass.

[GHNeko]

That's just splitting hairs.

Being able to do other stuff doesn't change wand whacking though. Nothing about that quote implies that people think wand whacking is the only thing Te can do, just that it's boring. It's not about Te as a whole not having alternate playstyles, it's about one of the key gimmicks of the class's main weapon not being interesting.

Saying wand whacking doesn't need to be more interesting because Te has other builds is like saying Hu weapons didn't need a buff because Fury Stance and automate made it a good subclass.

Fair enough. I'll concede that point.

Might just be way too irate right now at the choices PS Team keeps making so I keep seeing the worst in things which I normally don't default to.

[Asellus]

With respect to Gunner, WTF are people complaining about? Grim Barrage being too difficult to use? Discover target locking, fucking noobs.

Pulled this bit from the blog...

"They are thinking of a way to address the Grim Barrage situation. They haven’t decided yet, but It might be something like an ON/OFF switch, or it performs tracking only when Locked-On."

-Just fucking hilarious! No hope for pso2 gamers. None.

[Altiea]

To give the developers the benefit of the doubt, they are listening to player opinion, which is a good thing. The problem is that they're listening to the wrong players, since a solid chunk of their playerbase is casual. Therefore, they end up pandering to the lowest common denominator instead of the players who actually know what they're doing.

[Kondibon]

a solid chunk of their playerbase is casual.Doesn't that mean they're listening to the right players then?

[SteveCZ]

Doesn't that mean they're listening to the right players then?

It's all down to who gives the most $ money $

[GHNeko]

Doesn't that mean they're listening to the right players then?
no it doesnt

beacuse listening to the majority doesnt make you right and your product can suffer as a result.

you see this time and time again in dozens of games and it ends up costing the game in the long run.

there is a limit to the whole "you have to listen to the biggest group of players that brings in revenue" bullshit.

its important to a degree but for things that are as important as game balance, then they're not always the right choice because even if you pander to them there is no guarantee they'll stay around regardless.

[FantasyHeaven]

As the old school, ranty and close-minded TE that I am...

Isn't TECHER supposed to huh...use techs ? I mean don't get me wrong, improving melee is all fine and dandy, but the tech aspect of the class (which still has half the masteries, access to compounds and innate T-ATK on its weapons) has been swept under the rug for the most part in EP5.
Close range attacker might include close range techs like ragrants but I'm not holding out hope as it's sega after all.
Te played as a simple 1 button machine with zanverse on autocast every 5 seconds and buffs every 3 min is the single most boring class to play in this game and 1 PA won't change that.

[Kondibon]

no it doesnt

beacuse listening to the majority doesnt make you right and your product can suffer as a result.

you see this time and time again in dozens of games and it ends up costing the game in the long run.

there is a limit to the whole "you have to listen to the biggest group of players that brings in revenue" bullshit.

its important to a degree but for things that are as important as game balance, then they're not always the right choice because even if you pander to them there is no guarantee they'll stay around regardless.The problems happen when you try to appeal to everyone at once. PSO2 has been a casual game from the start. There's nothing they can do to balance the gap in player power without reworking the game's progression in general.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the Grim barrage thing is about people using it to move quickly but getting dragged off to the side by random mobs that spawned. no amount of "git gud" is going to fix that.

EDIT: I guess you could use TPS mode.

On a further note, I think the idea that games need to be hard to control to be challenging is inherently flawed, and unless the game is specifically designed around that idea, it's only a detriment that limits intentional challenging designs.

[GHNeko]

The problems happen when you try to appeal to everyone at once. PSO2 has been a casual game from the start. There's nothing they can do to balance the gap in player power without reworking the game's progression in general.

Normally I agree with the idea that appealing to everyone tends to cause problems, but I don't feel that's the case here.

Bouncer is a perfect example of this. A good amount of players are happy with Bo and only are talking about what they'd like to see, but it's not even like they'd be upset if they didnt get new PAs because the number show there really isnt a high level of dissatisfaction.

Casuals want to see new PAs, but I heavily doubt they'd complain if they got Bo buffs over new PAs because by their own admission via survey, they're generally happy with the class. So you have your major group that's content, but god damn the sentiment of Bo needing help in the hardcore world is ringing true, so why not address? It's not like the majority of bo players are going to get upset over damage and/or actually good support buffs.

[final_attack]

With respect to Gunner, WTF are people complaining about? Grim Barrage being too difficult to use? Discover target locking, fucking noobs.

Pulled this bit from the blog...

"They are thinking of a way to address the Grim Barrage situation. They haven’t decided yet, but It might be something like an ON/OFF switch, or it performs tracking only when Locked-On."

-Just fucking hilarious! No hope for pso2 gamers. None.

I would think it's about the automatic tracking when not wanted. So, I'll agree for only tracking once locked on (it's currently tracking even when not locked on, right? I almost exclusively use TPS, so, I'm not sure).

Maybe something around gaining height, and then use GrimBarrage to move closer to running-away-target, but then lose height because target is on the ground ....

[ArcaneTechs]

Normally I agree with the idea that appealing to everyone tends to cause problems, but I don't feel that's the case here.

Bouncer is a perfect example of this. A good amount of players are happy with Bo and only are talking about what they'd like to see, but it's not even like they'd be upset if they didnt get new PAs because the number show there really isnt a high level of dissatisfaction.

Casuals want to see new PAs, but I heavily doubt they'd complain if they got Bo buffs over new PAs because by their own admission via survey, they're generally happy with the class. So you have your major group that's content, but god damn the sentiment of Bo needing help in the hardcore world is ringing true, so why not address? It's not like the majority of bo players are going to get upset over damage and/or actually good support buffs.
you know what would help BO? DB gauge reduction instead of Kestral eating my whole Gauge

[Kondibon]

so why not address?Because that's time and effort that could be going into something else.

[AVO]

jfc, they could have used this opportunity to fix long standing ass issue on bo like the absolute horrendous fucking trash element stance multis rendering my crest JT useless when its off element, having to equip adrenaline ring to upkeep 1 min of shifta deband so you can actually play your class normally for 1 min before taking a step back to rebuff while watching everyone and their mother continue damaging the mobs, the 10 sp needed so i can have invulnerable on my long ass WA frames, JB being only meh with RB and a wet tissue paper outside RB, DB best PA is a long ass PA that consumes the entire gauge and barely out damages DW>WA without PBF, the fucking garbage ass non existent tracking on gw and DW, DW not being able to be cancelled after a certain distance so you can eat 12378641 Jamada for free, Vinto locking you in your animation so you can eat 567537 hunar slam for free.

But of course, the fucking problem bo has right now is that the support skills on bo sucks and it dosent have any PA. In what fucking world are they going to be able to buff bo support skills to the point where it can even be an alternative to playing te support????? Why the fuck does the class need more PA for the sake of having more PA? So you can have 10 PA and use the same 4 PA? Why the fuck is the active duration of RB and PBF not being equal and they think the weapon is balanced right now? Why the fuck does the class have to farm rainbow weapons so you can have lesser multis than the dermerit of brave stance??? God fucking dammit fuck this worthless playerbase.

Yes i am being a fucking whiny crybaby bitch and i dont care.

[Altiea]

The fact of the matter is that SEGA wants to enforce a role for Bouncers that people who actually seriously play the class don't agree with, but the players they're receiving feedback from about the Bouncer class don't believe that Bouncer fills a different niche than the one given by SEGA. So it's kind of a lose-lose situation here. The only way to fix it would be to be more vocal about the actual problems with Bouncer as a damage class, but not enough people in Japan play Bouncer nor care enough about the class to pitch the issue to SEGA...

[GHNeko]

The fact of the matter is that SEGA wants to enforce a role for Bouncers that people who actually seriously play the class don't agree with, but the players they're receiving feedback from about the Bouncer class don't believe that Bouncer fills a different niche than the one given by SEGA. So it's kind of a lose-lose situation here. The only way to fix it would be to be more vocal about the actual problems with Bouncer as a damage class, but not enough people in Japan play Bouncer nor care enough about the class to pitch the issue to SEGA...

JP Bo players are requesting translations for the EN Bo Guide.

That's how telling this whole situation is lmao

[XrosBlader821]

JP Bo players are requesting translations for the EN Bo Guide.

That's how telling this whole situation is lmao

That's really bad. Sega might need to give this guide a read too because they seem to be clueless about what class they've designed. Can't wait for new JB PA casting Resta and Anti on Weapon action. They could also make Crits less shit while they're at it. PSO2 is the only game I've seen so far where crits aren't giving any bonus Damage by default.

[TehCubey]

Hey, I'm late to the party. Probably because I don't really post here that often anymore. Anyway, my comments on the balance part of the stream!

Ha ha ha. HA. HA. HA.

Sega has no idea how their own game works, how to balance it, how its meta is like, and doubles down on the stupid by listening to the majority opinion - which is a bad idea even when the game isn't explicitly aimed at the casual (read: doesn't know the mechanics very well) crowd.

[the_importer_]

Hey, I'm late to the party. Probably because I don't really post here that often anymore. Anyway, my comments on the balance part of the stream!

Ha ha ha. HA. HA. HA.

Sega has no idea how their own game works, how to balance it, how its meta is like, and doubles down on the stupid by listening to the majority opinion - which is a bad idea even when the game isn't explicitly aimed at the casual (read: doesn't know the mechanics very well) crowd.

The issue is what plagues every multiplayer game, which is 90% of people bitching because their character does less damage than another one. You think this is bad, you should see the whining bitches on fighting game forums. Hell, a game called Divekick was created a while back to poke fun at the fighting game community.

[GHNeko]

The issue is what plagues every multiplayer game, which is 90% of people bitching because their character does less damage than another one. You think this is bad, you should see the whining bitches on fighting game forums. Hell, a game called Divekick was created a while back to poke fun at the fighting game community.

[spoiler-box]Divekick was tongue in cheek, yes. But it still ended up becoming what it was poking fun at. And your post implies the game was primarily poking fun at the community when that's not the case; it was poking fun at the genre as a whole; the most prominent trait being that dive kicks in fighting games tend to be fucking ridiculous and really really fucking good to the point that almost every character that had a dive kick was a top tier in their respective game. The only character with a dive kick that wasn't top tier that I can remember is Saki from Arcana Heart and it's only like that because not only was her character painfully average but they neutered her dive kick in so many ways that it could only be considered an average move, but despite that; it was still one of her best moves because no matter how you restrict it,a move that can be tiger knee'd and changes your vertical direction instantly while also leading into combos or set ups, is going to be good no matter what.[/spoiler-box]

No one but the good bo's have issues with Bo's damage output :wacko: So it's actually the opposite right now.

[the_importer_]

Divekick was tongue in cheek, yes. But it still ended up becoming what it was poking fun at. And your post implies the game was primarily poking fun at the community when that's not the case; it was poking fun at the genre as a whole; the most prominent trait being that dive kicks in fighting games tend to be fucking ridiculous and really really fucking good to the point that almost every character that had a dive kick was a top tier in their respective game. The only character with a dive kick that wasn't top tier that I can remember is Saki from Arcana Heart and it's only like that because not only was her character painfully average but they neutered her dive kick in so many ways that it could only be considered an average move, but despite that; it was still one of her best moves because no matter how you restrict it,a move that can be tiger knee'd and changes your vertical direction instantly while also leading into combos or set ups, is going to be good no matter what.

Please, the only people that bitch about aerial attacks are the people who can't be bothered raising their neck a bit to see what's happening, has nothing to do with being overpowered, any special move makes heavy damage if you don't block it. People were just bitching about aerial attacks cause they sucked too much at blocking them and with that whining came Divekick.

[GHNeko]

Please, the only people that bitch about aerial attacks are the people who can't be bothered raising their neck a bit to see what's happening, has nothing to do with being overpowered, any special move makes heavy damage if you don't block it. People were just bitching about aerial attacks cause they sucked too much at blocking them and with that whining came Divekick.

[spoiler-box]bruh first of all what are you talking about you dont even sound like you play fighting games lmfao

by nature a dive kick is an extremely strong concept in a 2D fighter because you can suddenly change your direction at any point making it an extremely powerful overhead focusing the defender to have to guess between if the attacker is going to land into a low or overhead before landing OR simply going straight into an instant overhead after doing ground based block strings and pressure.

divekicks into huge damage has always been a universally strong tool and no amount of "lol just gitgud" is going to change that truth. yun dive kick into genei jin and rufus into target into ultra is like the most obvious example of this.


secondly

this is completely off topic and that's exactly why i limited it to an spoiler box but if you really wanna talk this shit i dont mind doing it else where lol.[/spoiler-box]

[TehCubey]

The issue is what plagues every multiplayer game, which is 90% of people bitching because their character does less damage than another one. You think this is bad, you should see the whining bitches on fighting game forums. Hell, a game called Divekick was created a while back to poke fun at the fighting game community.

Oh no, I know that. It's been an ancient joke that you know when a MMO is balanced when every class subforum has the equal amount of whining.

Which is why the devs, while they shouldn't completely cut off contact with the playerbase, should take player feedback with a pinch of salt. They should have a good idea of what a class is supposed to be like, and if players complain about a lack of balance, to judge why is that - did the players not figure out how to play their own class correctly? Was there an oversight which causes the class to work in an unexpectedly strong way that becomes the new top meta?

Many MMO developers are bad with this. The FF XIV team balances out classes assuming they're in vacuum, with little thought given to synergy. But Sega is even worse than that. They can't even get their own classes' basic playstyle right. Their descriptions about class roles and what parts are weaker than their should are absolutely hilarious. So disattached from reality of how the game is actually being played.

This isn't new for PSO2, I mean for example Gunner was almost always either OP or shit, with little middle ground. But what's going on right now is worse than I ever remember.

[the_importer_]

[spoiler-box]bruh first of all what are you talking about you dont even sound like you play fighting games lmfao

by nature a dive kick is an extremely strong concept in a 2D fighter because you can suddenly change your direction at any point making it an extremely powerful overhead focusing the defender to have to guess between if the attacker is going to land into a low or overhead before landing OR simply going straight into an instant overhead after doing ground based block strings and pressure.

divekicks into huge damage has always been a universally strong tool and no amount of "lol just gitgud" is going to change that truth. yun dive kick into genei jin and rufus into target into ultra is like the most obvious example of this.


secondly

this is completely off topic and that's exactly why i limited it to an spoiler box but if you really wanna talk this shit i dont mind doing it else where lol.[/spoiler-box]

Hey "bruh", you're the one who elaborated on this in the first place after I just slipped in an example. Second, hell yea "bruh", been playing fighters since 1994. Name me a game that I boot on MAME, DC, PS1, PS2, Saturn, OG XB, NGC or Wii that has a divekick and I'll show you that it's no big deal to block, avoid or counter something like this.

[Dark Mits]

The main reason Sega cannot balance the classes is because every class is brokenly OP. It's just that some are more broken than others. All classes can be invulnerable, all classes can solo all non-EQ content.

"Expert" players do not actually care about balancing. They just want to be even more OP so that they clear content even quicklier, so that they have more time to go on forums and complain that the game is "2 ez and 2 casulol". I mean, if an enemy dies quickly then it's easy, but it it needs time to die then it's just sponge. If an enemy doesn't deal enough damage or it's easily avoidable it's an easy enemy, but if it deals lots of damage or it's hard to avoid then it's "bad design".

Sega needs to go back to the drawing board and rebalance player HP, player damage output, enemy HP, enemy damage output, and recovery availability and potency. The "best" way to do that now (ie. the way that will cause the minimal possible player outrage), is to give new level ups very small power increases, but immense HP increases, so that the HP bar actually works like an HP bar and not as an on-off switch.

[GHNeko]

[spoiler-box]
Hey "bruh", you're the one who elaborated on this in the first place after I just slipped in an example. Second, hell yea "bruh", been playing fighters since 1994. Name me a game that I boot on MAME, DC, PS1, PS2, Saturn, OG XB, NGC or Wii that has a divekick and I'll show you that it's no big deal to block, avoid or counter something like this.

i brought up is that dive kicking is a conceptually and fundementally a really good type of attack in fighting games and that nearly every character that has one is ACTUALLY a top tier as per literally all the community match up charts and tier lists and you're coming back at me with "but you can totally block it dude people who complain about dive kicks are just scrubs" when i never said anything of the sort so your response is ?????? on top of a complete lack of language that is common to the whole FGC (that has been around for decades mind you).

that being said; my comment about not playing fighting games was not okay, unwarranted, and totally an ad hom so my bad on that part. and while i'm not gonna insinuate that you're any of these things; playing a lot of fighting games != knowing/understanding/being good at them and outside of the FGC i come across alot of people who don't know the community terminology and act like they know what they're talking about but all they do is play the story mode in fighting games but never engage with the community through locals and tourneys and shit :wacko:

i will say that you complete missed my point when i talked about divekick and how your post lead to imply it was poking fun at just the fgc and not the modern game genre as a whole.[/spoiler-box]

[AVO]

Ah yes of course its about the damage, not the stupid fucking ass feeling of being completely locked in animation and letting jesus take the wheel or the stupid ass simple math of farming rainbow being so fucking unrewarding i rather have average stance which has a lower multiplier than fucking shit trash element stance. And of course it feels orgasmic watching people hitting things while your shitty bitch ass has to take some time to buff yourself for 1 min so you can feel that you are playing your class alright because you sunk 10 sp into it. FeelsAmazingMan

[wefwq]

Uh, pardon?

[AVO]

Just a bouncer player reeee-ing. Nothing much

[Zephyrion]

I might be cynical, but let's be real, if you even play BO, TE or HU actively, you pretty much know that your class will forever get changed in a way that doesn't reflect their goals or playstyles. I'm overall ok with HU becoming a tank rather than taking to the DPS race since this race is bound to have losers, and a class with Ignition Parry, Volg Graptor and Holding Current as their staple DPS options will forever be laughable no matter how hard you push them. I'd rather they give HU unique skills that helps everybody, like a skill that partially absorbs the damage received by people within a certain range from you to help the "actual" damaging classes like FO, GU, FI or Hero.

I'm pretty much thinking similarly for BO. I'm ok with it becoming more support-oriented, but you better give them something actually impactful and rework these damn fields to be good enough that people don't straight ignore them because they don't bring anything relevant on the table. the rainbow issues and all that jazz were mentioned so no need to beat a very dead horse. TE I also already said how I felt about in previous posts so no need to add more complaints on top


Now for the HU rant in particular I'm still kind of irked about the fact that with all weapons reworks/changes we had, Sword and WL are still suffering from the same issues up to this day. When you see Braver just got Braver combination which fixes gear loss and gear Management for Katana aaand meanwhile Sword STILL loses all its gear when not used and Akatsuki STILL needs to be manually unsheathed through JG everytime you switch...double standards much ?

WL is in an even more hilarious place. It looks like in the rush to make every weapon feel "whoa" to play, they forgot WL have half of their PAs fully uncancellable by either Weapon Action or step, still features the horrible mash mechanic on one of its staple PAs, and is just overall wonky and clunky. But hey hopefully people trying out their Quelle Glitter will notice these issues

Despite all of the ranty aspect I'm still happy that SEGA even has the intention of actually giving game balance a good look. Because for all we complain, the dark times of banning people for using game mechanics (ahem ahem Magatsu) or notoriously broken stuff to stay around for more than one year (SU/GU Marron and Shunka yeeee) aren't a thing anymore. Meanwhile EP5 reacted relatively fast after Hero's bumpy introduction and is at least trying to be upfront about the direction they want to give classes. Not perfect, but any improvement regarding this matter should be credited still

[SteveCZ]

Well despite of how they explicitly think about Bo, I look forward for the balance. Just like when they introduced buffed PD, support Techers somehow got a better spotlight until today, so that gives a little rainbow in the game.

[silo1991]

i gonna say a few points

1 the summoner all it needs is simply a free skill that allow us to recall our pet when we want ( no cooldown).
2 the bouncer really ocupy a lot of of space in subpallete , i use 2 subpalletes actually XD ( 1 for skills and another one for change the JB element ) also the jet boots really lacks of PA the dual blades are fine.
3 looks like techer can be build in 3 ways , specialiced in melee , full support or full magic ofensive .
4 hunter really needs something that allow them to fight in the air more easy , magatsu is the best example how hard is fighting in the air

the rest is fine

[Aexorcet]

Despite all of the ranty aspect I'm still happy that SEGA even has the intention of actually giving game balance a good look.

I feel the same, although I don't know where we will ultimately end up. The last few months haven't been the greatest in PSO2's history in my opinion. Game development isn't easy of course, but I still get the feeling that Sega has been slow and a little careless.

[wefwq]

4 hunter really needs something that allow them to fight in the air more easy , magatsu is the best example how hard is fighting in the air
Strongly agree with this one.

[XrosBlader821]

Sega needs to go back to the drawing board and rebalance player HP, player damage output, enemy HP, enemy damage output, and recovery availability and potency. The "best" way to do that now (ie. the way that will cause the minimal possible player outrage), is to give new level ups very small power increases, but immense HP increases, so that the HP bar actually works like an HP bar and not as an on-off switch.

I don't agree with the other points but I fully agree about the stats needing a rebalance. It's been so long since I first started playing and the average unaffixed survivability of a class is basically the exact same as it was back then because level ups only matter for SP (You can't tell me that People would've had problems with Deimurge or Omega Loser if these quests were 75/75). Then Sega releases content that actually hurts (Dragon Rematch and XQ) and people start complaining because they're used to being hit by wet noodles and automate taking care of the rest.

[Dark Mits]

I don't agree with the other points but I fully agree about the stats needing a rebalance. It's been so long since I first started playing and the average unaffixed survivability of a class is basically the exact same as it was back then because level ups only matter for SP (You can't tell me that People would've had problems with Deimurge or Omega Loser if these quests were 75/75). Then Sega releases content that actually hurts (Dragon Rematch and XQ) and people start complaining because they're used to being hit by wet noodles and automate taking care of the rest.Indeed. And it's not like Sega didn't give us tools and ways to actually make the hard-hitting bosses hit like wet noodles. But we players (the majority) refuse to spec for anything other than optimal damage.

And we can't really blame the majority for doing that. Each point in atk increases multiplicatively with every modifier. On the other hand, each point in defense/hp has diminishing returns on added survivability. A full-tank character has like 5 or 6 times the survivability of a glass cannon, but less than 1% of the dps potential. Not only that, but if something can kill a glass cannon, most likely it will also kill a full-tank as well (Deus sword split, Loser time-stop blades, Erythron Dragon's final charge before his death, seeing another party member get the 14* you seek etc.) which further diminishes any appeal a tank build may have.

If the HP bar acted more like a soft sponge that told you "Ok, you can do about 8-10 mistakes before having to spend some time and resources to recover" instead of today's "Ok, I'll allow 1 mistake and that's it, after that it's Moon", and recovery abilities had a measurable opportunity cost that gave players an incentive to avoid incoming damage despite inherit tankiness, then we would find builds that are not 100% damage go-go-go to be interesting and appealing.

[AVO]

Idk man.

Why are you using things designed to oneshot you as a reference to how bad tanky build is??

To give you an example, GSA hu main build on aggressive monsters gives you tankiness and damage the same time.

Ppl have been affixing stuff to tank in LB with atra lifesteal(just lookup ponthi fi vid).

In fact, a shitton of fote vids have more than 1k hp despite only getting grazed once.

I would say in this day and age of sega randomly boosting the damage of mobs for a very exciting "boost event" and you still refuse to affix a single drop of hp, its on you to get good.

Seriously, compared to the start of ep4 to now, we actually have decent alternatives for affixing hp like deus factor, omega reverie and ares the soul. There no excuses for 'why hp affix when you can have attack xddd'.

[wefwq]

There no excuses for 'why hp affix when you can have attack xddd'.
This but unironically.

[XrosBlader821]

Idk man.

Why are you using things designed to oneshot you as a reference to how bad tanky build is??

To give you an example, GSA hu main build on aggressive monsters gives you tankiness and damage the same time.

Ppl have been affixing stuff to tank in LB with atra lifesteal(just lookup ponthi fi vid).

In fact, a shitton of fote vids have more than 1k hp despite only getting grazed once.

I would say in this day and age of sega randomly boosting the damage of mobs for a very exciting "boost event" and you still refuse to affix a single drop of hp, its on you to get good.

Seriously, compared to the start of ep4 to now, we actually have decent alternatives for affixing hp like deus factor, omega reverie and ares the soul. There no excuses for 'why hp affix when you can have attack xddd'.

Yeah the affix system works, nobody denies that but we're talking about the enemy balancing being all over the place.
When you're designing a EQ you need to balance it so that both unaffixed and affixed players can enjoy it alike. Except you can't really do that because a affixed user will have a extremely large amount of stats compared to an unaffixed player.
When Dragon Rematch came out a lot of casuals complained about dragon being too strong and unlike Deus Sega actually didn't nerf him this time (which pissed off a lot of expert players who thought Deus was actually fine as he was).
When XQ came out people complained that even with high HP affixed they'd het 1hko or 2hko's by the tiniest sneezes of the enemies.
When Omega Loser came out everybody was baffled since he had less damage output than PI boosted Loser.
If player stats were higher then affixed stats would be less impactful, Allowing Sega to make bosses that might be challenging for both affixed and unaffixed players. It'd also give Sega a better Idea of what amount of stats players might have for certain difficulties and classes like Hunter could actually tank certain hits. Shifta and Deband would have higher value on non-Tectors because the stats it affects would be higher and on Te those two would make a tremendous difference and more relevant for MPA throughout the entire game instead of just a few hard quests.
Phantasy Star Nova had no problems balancing it like that and 60% of the Skills and gameplay systems in that game are copy-pasted from PSO2.

[Chiyo_Hoshi]

You know what, I don't care. SEGA should consider feed-back from non-Japanese players as well. I already accept the fact that this game will never reach the west and the language barrier is a factor but dammit, we care about the game as much as they do if not more-so. Though I will give them credit that their not completely ignorant on regarding there player-base.

[Traumin]

You know what, I don't care. SEGA should consider feed-back from non-Japanese players as well. I already accept the fact that this game will never reach the west and the language barrier is a factor but dammit, we care about the game as much as they do if not more-so. Though I will give them credit that their not completely ignorant on regarding there player-base.

The problem is legally speaking, Sega of Japan can not aknowledge our feed back. Anyone playing outside of the Japan is basically breaking the Terms of Service in the game, so them actually mentioning us can't happen. However, they are very aware we exist. We're a small amount compared to the JP player base as well, so we don't' factor much :x

[Dark Mits]

Why are you using things designed to oneshot you as a reference to how bad tanky build is??Because if something doesn't oneshot you, it's as if it didn't hit you at all. Recovery options are so numerous, quick, effective and cheap that oneshot IS the only threat left. The idea of a "tanky" build is one that can withstand lots of hits before needing to recuperate. Balancing a tanky build with a non-tanky build means that the non-tanky build has to spend more time avoiding stuff and recuperating than a tanky build; or in other words the tanky build should have higher damage uptime that counterbalances the lower damage output.

The situation in PSO2 is wildly different. As you said, people affix lifesteal for nearly 0 opportunity cost (what would be the alternative affix, situational 1% extra damage?), to be able to facetank. The difference in effectiveness in content clearing between a glasscannon with lifesteal and a tank is so huge that tank players are heavily handicapping themselves and forego any farming they could achieve in order to enjoy their playstyle.