So the Hero Class, the First Advance Class, Just How Much More Powerful is it?

[the_importer_]

Ever since I came back to this game, it's been Hero this and Hero that, overpowered this, overpowered that. As someone who's capped that class to level 80, I can agree, playing with this class was a walk in the park, but just how much more powerful is it compared to the average main + sub class? Couple of updates ago, we got a 5% boost skill for every normal class, so that's a 10% combined, do you feel that this made it more fair? If not, how much more of a boost in terms of percentage damage to you think that regular classes should get?

[Aexorcet]

I'm still using 10* units on one of my normal class alts and I don't feel particularly underpowered, it was kind of nice playing through Ultimate Nab for compounds the other day. As things stand right now, the class tier list doesn't matter to me. 12 people means thing die instantly more or less. I don't see a need to buff anything really. I find Fo fun to play, so I'll just stick with it. Between Ilzonde, compounds, and Ilgrants/Ragrants I don't feel like I'm inferior to Hero by any significant amount anyway.

[Zulastar]

Well I've said that already but it's not damage point difference between old classes and Hero. Old classes need smoother gameplay, each melee weapon should get same level gape closer, Attack and PA increased hitboxes, smoother and faster PA activation and execution without that nasty after-PAs delay.

[XrosBlader821]

It's hard to tell tbh. Most clear speed Record holders still either haven't got the level cap to 85/85 or haven't managed to beat their best time but one thing is for sure: Fo/Te is super powerful now. Can't wait for the new Compounds to make it even stronger.

Here are some Solo PD times I got from YT:
Best Fo/Te (3:42) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0M3tgx1-8)
Best Fi/Hu (4:01) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lImNjjXs8qI) (Pre-Level 85)
Best Hr (3:49) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrfTpVoVIqk)

Every other class sits at around 4:12~4:40 with Te and Su being the exceptions

Obviously every class performs differently in different environments but imo solo Raid bosses (that are meant to be beaten solo) like PD are the fairest to measure it. There are still some buffs waiting on the regular classes, judging by the survey results. Te/Hu will definitely see a spike in DPS with the Wand PA, finally being able to prepare a powerful attack when the enemy weakpoint is out of reach. Su is a unpopular class but if played correctly it can dish out stupid amount of damage. Now that Rykros is easy to access I'd love to see some of the Incredible Su players return. The best Su run is still from back when Maron Chains were broken (4 minutes flat).

Edit: Also I fully agree with Zulastar

[SteveCZ]

Hero barely have any downtime in almost any situation (arguably all situations in all places), and that's what it is always been so far. Weapon like Demonia is crucial to quickly close one of its weaknesses (Hero boost reset or slow power increase rate early game), makes them even more reliable when they have it.

Standard classes are still updated in a good way, cause even if you add more damage, they are still stuck with their own limitations. So nothing is overwritten (either Hero or other classes) at least in my book.

[Zulastar]

Brightness End 360 degree high power AOE which covers area 3 times of it's animation. And no comments about BNS.
So at MPA with several Heroes some classes can't even touch a weak trash mobs 'cause when they/their attack reach them, these mobs already dead with these two.

[TehCubey]

Controversial opinion but I think Hero just has been uncrowned with the update we got (and probably was even before)

In no particular order
- Force has received buff after buff, and new compounds are coming soon. Force in its current state is arguably already stronger than Hero, with more versatile and practical burst, more range, and good firepower
- Fighter never was far behind Hero in terms of damage, and I think the double 5% buff just makes the sheer volume of damage it outputs go toe-to-toe or even above Hero in a lot of scenarios. It has some extra pluses compared to Hero, notably the sheer power of its stationary damage, infinitely better PP sustain and LB still being overall less punishing thant Hero Boost imo
- Gunner : Another S-roll new skill on top of extra damage on top of already insane burst. Current Gunner can now mob very efficiently while putting HTF to shame with chain alone.

When all is said and done, I think the one thing still keeping Hero at the top is ease of play, straightforwardness and the sheer versatility that allows it to be good everywhere, while aforementioned classes will shine or struggle depending on content. But I can say with certainty the days of Hero being the best everywhere are definitely gone for a while

It's not controversial, it's fact. Even before the level cap increase, Fi and Fo were about as powerful as Hero, while Gunner left it in the dust. The increase only skews the difference further.

Hero remains a high tier class though, and it's easy to play but hard to master which is good game design. What isn't good game design is how sword is so much more useful than the other two weapons, so much so that for all intents and purposes it's an s-atk class, not an all atk one.

[Kintama]

Every class is now an advanced class now, prepare for subclass system deletion to reflect that in the future, dummies.

[the_importer_]

Every class is now an advanced class now, prepare for subclass system deletion to reflect that in the future, dummies.

Right, pretty sure 1/3 of the player base would leave if that were to happen.

[Yden]

Right, pretty sure 1/3 of the player base would leave if that were to happen.

I wonder how powerful an advanced base class would need to be to make up for the inability to use a subclass.

[XrosBlader821]

Every class is now an advanced class now, prepare for subclass system deletion to reflect that in the future, dummies.

That would require Sega to overhaul each class so that they can be viable with 99 SP and not 198 so probably won't happen. We all know how much Sega likes to overhauling concepts by not doing that and releasing band-aids instead. Although it would certainly be nice not having to level up the subclass to {{current_max_level}} each time the Meta shifts because Sega nerfed/buffed something. No matter how much Regular classes will be buffed/improved they'll still gonna have to put in more Work into being viable than Advanced ones.

[the_importer_]

I wonder how powerful an advanced base class would need to be to make up for the inability to use a subclass.

It's not just stats in some case. As a main Fo/Te, I would call it quits if I were to loose Light boost, Dark boost, Wind boost, Elemental Weakness, PP Restorate and Extend Assist.

[Great Pan]

Everyone should be a Hero, so that I can get carried in EQs.

[echofaith]

Everyone should be a Hero, so that I can get carried in EQs.

Pretty much this c:

[Yden]

Everyone should be a Hero, so that I can get carried in EQs.

Wouldn't having 1 ranger be better than a 12th hero though?

[Zulastar]

Brightness isn't the best mobbing option anymore
Well at this stupid Buster Limit back then there was prue classes AoE test. I still used a parcer back then and there were clear difference between Brightness End spam and other AoE patterns of other classes except of Zondeel packs. And final numbers was about 2 times like 10M vs 2-5M by other classes at the end of one run.

Well about AoE this Easter EQ can be used as a test too even without a parcer. Just notice when you get DB bar filled without a booster weapons for it. Just pure DPS.

[SteveCZ]

Hence why the state of balance between classes is pretty good atm (balance to content is another problem xD). I think Hero has finally settled in what was its initial purpose : a class that is good at everything, but can't beat more limited/specialized classes at what they do, which is how it should have been from the start.

Agreed.

I also agree that Hero shouldn't be compared to other "standard" classes (that with current balances can be referred as "specialized" classes), as Hero is an "advanced' class that should be compared to probably other "specialized advanced" class than these standard classes, which makes the balances seems awkward regardless of how okay they are compare to Hero. Although it's pretty much just about the inconsistent terms. But the requirements to get it pretty much make it as if they should be a different level of a class, not equal.

If only I knew they would balance it this way, I wish they didn't call it "advanced" classes but just a class addition just like Fighter, Gunner, and Techer before, even though they did add a requirement to get these classes. Now my mind is stuck with expecting more advance classes to override the standard classes instead of as additions.

[GHNeko]

didnt sega say they're going to treat "advanced" classes as normal classes moving forward due to the backlash?

[XrosBlader821]

I don't think they said that word for word but they did say they want every class to become as viable as Hero so that people can play what they like instead what is powerful.

[final_attack]

Oh btw, did they say around when new class will come?
Is it just 1? Or any info about what target they aim for new class maybe?

[oratank]

they said no new class on this year or ep5 something like that but it will be an advance class

[SteveCZ]

didnt sega say they're going to treat "advanced" classes as normal classes moving forward due to the backlash?

Yeah they did, which was the problem. They put up a Hero, so powerful that people were just using Heroes. We did expecting balance (or quick iterations of new advanced classes) but they (probably) knew they couldn't do it to Hero because it is an "advanced' class, so I assume they do it on the other classes instead.

Why these quotes, because apparently their term of advanced is not about replacing (advancing people towards better classes), but more of a play style or probably its mobility, which I still can't get it much. Is it harder to use? Not really. Does take a while to get (for new players)? Yes. Is it powerful enough? Not really (now) in specialized situations.
They say Hero should be (and will be) all-rounder on pretty much all aspects, is this what they mean as advanced? will other advanced classes are all be all-rounder because they're "advanced" as well? If not then what's the difference than the specialized standard classes?

But it's not really a major thing to argue about anyway since regardless of the argument about the term, because if they are just classes (no advance nor standard terms), all these classes are all doing just fine so far.

[AVO]

Yea, i can confirm bouncer is fine right now. Feels amazing to get out mob and boss by fo hr fi gu br ra su hu nowadays.

[final_attack]

they said no new class on this year or ep5 something like that but it will be an advance class

Ah, I see ...... kinda wondering what direction will that advanced class take ..... since current class selection have covered enough roles needed in-game, I think?

I wonder if they make something with ..... combination on specific weapon type? Like combination of all-classes with S-weapon only, or R-weapon only, or T-weapon only .....Since Hr have S/R/T weapon ..... ._.

Oh well, gonna have to wait and see, I guess.

[the_importer_]

Ah, I see ...... kinda wondering what direction will that advanced class take ..... since current class selection have covered enough roles needed in-game, I think?

I wonder if they make something with ..... combination on specific weapon type? Like combination of all-classes with S-weapon only, or R-weapon only, or T-weapon only .....Since Hr have S/R/T weapon ..... ._.

Oh well, gonna have to wait and see, I guess.

They normally make 1 new class per episode since EP2.

[final_attack]

They normally make 1 new class per episode since EP2.

Well, yea, expecting 1 at a time .... but, before, Fi / Gu / Te released all at once, wasn't it? ( 'o')

Edit :
If the next advanced class can use Tmg (which is impossible, I guess) and I like both skills and gameplay, I'll be happy. Since Advanced class don't have to level sub-classes (levelling Hu and Fi with R-Atk mag for use as Gu's sub is kinda painful) >_>

Oh, and no announcement about new weapon type, right?

[the_importer_]

Well, yea, expecting 1 at a time .... but, before, Fi / Gu / Te released all at once, wasn't it? ( 'o')

Edit :
If the next advanced class can use Tmg (which is impossible, I guess) and I like both skills and gameplay, I'll be happy. Since Advanced class don't have to level sub-classes (levelling Hu and Fi with R-Atk mag for use as Gu's sub is kinda painful) >_>

Oh, and no announcement about new weapon type, right?

Ya, but Hu, Ra, Fo, Fi, Gu and Te were all from EP1.
Br from EP2
Bo from EP3
Su from EP4
Hr from EP5

[Dark Mits]

It's probably my last wall of text on this thread, I pretty much explained how I felt about it and I welcome anyone to chime in/give their opinionsNot directly a reply to this, but we will either have balance or identity. We cannot have both balance and unique gameplay style, or balance and bring something to the table that others do not bring.

Other PvE games with "competitive" nature have tried to balance damage dealing specs. None has managed it satisfactory.

[Zulastar]

There's more chances that Wand PA is a preparation for 2nd advanced.

[XrosBlader821]

Literally as soon as a Advanced Wand based support class comes out I'm switching.
Sega said they want all classes to be as fluid as Hero now but they can't really do that without seriously overhauling the Gear system.

[TehCubey]

Not directly a reply to this, but we will either have balance or identity. We cannot have both balance and unique gameplay style, or balance and bring something to the table that others do not bring.

Other PvE games with "competitive" nature have tried to balance damage dealing specs. None has managed it satisfactory.

Wrong. Balance doesn't mean everything is identical. It means every class is able to meaningfully contribute to the same extent.

Perfect balance is impossible to reach or at least highly impractical considering the cost to result ratio. But there are games that are decently balanced those that are not, and PSO2 is definitely one of the latter.

[Dark Mits]

Wrong. Balance doesn't mean everything is identical. It means every class is able to meaningfully contribute to the same extent.

Perfect balance is impossible to reach or at least highly impractical considering the cost to result ratio. But there are games that are decently balanced those that are not, and PSO2 is definitely one of the latter.Simple example. Try to balance 2 classes. One class deals 100 point of damage every second, and the other deals 200 points of damage every 2 seconds. They do not have any other damage.

You can't. If enemy has 100 hp or less, then the second class has 50% clear speed. If enemies have between 101 and 200, then they have equal clear rate. If enemies have between 201 and 300 hp, then class B has 75% clear speed. On and on. Class A is in every single case equal or better than class B.

So if you try to buff class B by reducing the cooldown of its damage ability or increasing the damage it deals, it can be shown that class B then becomes better in almost everything than class A.

My point is, since it's mathematically impossible to balance such simple case, it is impossible to even resemble balance in an environment with thousands of variables.

-=EDIT=-
Regarding contribution to equal extent, let's take TE for example once again as I always do. It is arguably one of the least damage-contributing classes in mpas. So if the game's code was changed so that extra damage dealt from TE's Shifta was attributed to the TE instead of the player who actually dealt the damage (like Zanverse), how different would contribution be? And if RA's WB acted like that? On and on.

Sometimes people just look at damage meters alone and base their opinion on those.

[Aexorcet]

Simple example. Try to balance 2 classes. One class deals 100 point of damage every second, and the other deals 200 points of damage every 2 seconds. They do not have any other damage.

You can't. If enemy has 100 hp or less, then the second class has 50% clear speed. If enemies have between 101 and 200, then they have equal clear rate. If enemies have between 201 and 300 hp, then class B has 75% clear speed. On and on. Class A is in every single case equal or better than class B.

So if you try to buff class B by reducing the cooldown of its damage ability or increasing the damage it deals, it can be shown that class B then becomes better in almost everything than class A.

Give enemies 400 HP. The difference goes away. You can also just have varied content that plays to each classes' strengths. If damage windows are limited, class B has an advantage without the need for any buff. It will put out 200 damage during those short windows, while the other class can only do half that.

Balance and diversity aren't at odds with each other in my opinion. It can take work to achieve both, but it should almost always be achievable.

[Dark Mits]

Give enemies 400 HP. The difference goes away. You can also just have varied content that plays to each classes' strengths. If damage windows are limited, class B has an advantage without the need for any buff. It will put out 200 damage during those short windows, while the other class can only do half that.

Balance and diversity aren't at odds with each other in my opinion. It can take work to achieve both, but it should almost always be achievable.In the above example, all values between 200*k+101 and 200*k+200 for k=0,1,2,.... make classes equal. It works for 150, 320, 600, 701 etc. But that means that content has to be designed with this class limitation in mind. However content cannot be static. It has to provide variety. Sometimes you have lots of mobs and low-hp bosses, sometimes you have single-target boss with high hp, sometimes you have quick-moving boss, sometimes you have boss with adds, etc.

If two classes are not identical in what they can do gameplay-wise, then one class will be better than the other. The "best" a developer can do to "balance" the situation is to make content where some classes are good, and content where other classes are good. Then we would have equal QQ from all perspectives (which as another poster pointed out is the closest to balance you can get).

[Aexorcet]

In the above example, all values between 200*k+101 and 200*k+200 for k=0,1,2,.... make classes equal. It works for 150, 320, 600, 701 etc. But that means that content has to be designed with this class limitation in mind. However content cannot be static. It has to provide variety. Sometimes you have lots of mobs and low-hp bosses, sometimes you have single-target boss with high hp, sometimes you have quick-moving boss, sometimes you have boss with adds, etc.

Content needs to be made cohesive regardless I think. In PSO2, solo quests need to factor in for the low DPS classes for example. In the case described above there are some poorly balanced cases, but the majority work well. Not only are certain multiples of HP even, but the difference in uneven cases gets smaller as HP gets higher. To relate it to PSO2 where you could use hundreds of attacks per EQ, class A and B are essentially the same in a damage race.

I agree that content should be varied but I don't think that this is a hindrance either. If a quest has two phases where the first is many low HP enemies and the second is evasive high HP enemies, then both classes will have strengths and weaknesses in the quest. Rapid fire A will be better in the first phase while heavy hitting B will outperform A in the second because it can put out more damage in the short windows that allow for attacks.


If two classes are not identical in what they can do gameplay-wise, then one class will be better than the other. The "best" a developer can do to "balance" the situation is to make content where some classes are good, and content where other classes are good. Then we would have equal QQ from all perspectives (which as another poster pointed out is the closest to balance you can get).
It depends on how it's implemented. You can have these different situations play out all in the same quest so that no one is left out. Modifying my 2 phase quest example from before, if an EQ boss spawned a bunch of aggressive mobs and began to power up for a MPA wide attack, that gives each player a choice on what to focus on. Forces might decide to go after the mobs with Zondeel and AoE's while Gunners would start building up chains on the boss. You could do it the other way around, but it wouldn't be as effective (barring what I'm hearing about S roll's buff).

It works on a larger scale where entire pieces of content are easy/hard for certain classes if there is a wide range of content (PSO2 doesn't have this) that provides multiple paths to the same objective. I'd actually really like to see that, although not in PSO2 as it is now.

There are definitely challenges when it comes to doing this, on that I agree with you completely. I just don't see why it's impossible or beyond any reasonable difficulty for a developer in general.

[aiMute]

Ever since I came back to this game, it's been Hero this and Hero that, overpowered this, overpowered that. As someone who's capped that class to level 80, I can agree, playing with this class was a walk in the park, but just how much more powerful is it compared to the average main + sub class? Couple of updates ago, we got a 5% boost skill for every normal class, so that's a 10% combined, do you feel that this made it more fair? If not, how much more of a boost in terms of percentage damage to you think that regular classes should get?

What I consider OP is not it's damage (which is not bad) but ability to do almost everything as well as any other class in game, sometimes better:
it has best out of combat PP regen and very good in-combat too, bestest normals, best travel PA that can turn with z-aim while being fast and cheap, has Bo double jump, can cast techs unlike other non-casters except Bo (techJB don't exist), can do damage at range, has access to all 3 attack types, has faster (instant) JA than Br snatch step, has complete air freedom with cheesy talis, has PA that moves it up, and down, has very good counter, has offensive "major skill", can attack at max range, has piercing ranged attacks, all the skills have VERY low start-up (which when combined with "instant JA" lets Hr kill small shit MUCH faster), has iframes on many PAs, has long-charge nuke (which is better than any other because it has iframes), has large aoe PAs including 360 ones, has mobile PAs, PAs with superarmor, can dash cancel almost any attack at any time, can aircombat, has access to fastest quickfiring long range attack, has (limited) death-protection, has multipart PA although it can't be spammed, also no gimmick dependency like weak or front stance or standing snipe.

The only things Hr lacks is complete hurrdurr freedom because taking damage can lower your damage output (like with Fi and Gu), hueg aoe range attack which is the only reason it's still possible to see Rangers, talis tech tricks, VG/BA tricks, buffed support techs, CT, WB, automeme and some other minor shit no one cares about.

Hr might not have the best DPS but most of the time it's simply easier to pick Hr for any stuff including bossing simply because how much easier it is to play do stuff with it (sega designing new content around Hr doesn't help either).

[Zulastar]

Hr might not have the best DPS but most of the time it's simply easier to pick Hr for any stuff including bossing simply because how much easier it is to play do stuff with it (sega designing new content around Hr doesn't help either).
Yep that's the point. As for me I dunno much about other classes I don't play, but I think only Katana Braver can copmete in speed with Hero. But compared to Braver Hero have much smooth gameplay and can do more things.
I found SaFoie-0 pretty quick moving option too but...

[GHNeko]

a lot of people in this thread focus on hero's damage too much rather than the passive boosts to DPS the class gets from all the quality of life skills and features that are bundled with the class.

also

"smoothness and mobility" shouldn't be a selling point for a class in an action oriented MMORPG. that should be the de factor default for ALL the classes because saying it's a class specific feature implies that the rest ot the classes have mobility issues and are clunky, which relative to hero; they very much are and thats why we're getting charms for Air Reversal and Step Jump, as well as Double Jump and First Blood.

The latter two should not be class specific skills and the prior two should have been universal skills/functions and not rings lol. You want your action game to be universally smooth and fun to play. i dont get anyone suggestion or motioning to the idea that the feeling of playing hero should be hero exclusive.

[wefwq]

So it's cool and fine to play hero class now?
It's not a cheap class anymore now that every other classes got buffed?

[SteveCZ]

"smoothness and mobility" shouldn't be a selling point for a class in an action oriented MMORPG. that should be the de factor default for ALL the classes because saying it's a class specific feature implies that the rest ot the classes have mobility issues and are clunky, which relative to hero; they very much are and thats why we're getting charms for Air Reversal and Step Jump, as well as Double Jump and First Blood.

The latter two should not be class specific skills and the prior two should have been universal skills/functions and not rings lol. You want your action game to be universally smooth and fun to play. i dont get anyone suggestion or motioning to the idea that the feeling of playing hero should be hero exclusive.

What are you even talking about. Of course it can be a selling point, and every class should be exclusive on their own, and that's also pretty much what SEGA is aware of and currently about to enhance. I'm sure that's pretty much a lot of people talking about here except the question of this thread itself about the DPS.


So it's cool and fine to play hero class now?
It's not a cheap class anymore now that every other classes got buffed?

What the? It's not even that bad to use in the first place even today.

[GHNeko]

What are you even talking about. Of course it can be a selling point, and every class should be exclusive on their own, and that's also pretty much what SEGA is aware of and currently about to enhance. I'm sure that's pretty much a lot of people talking about here except the question of this thread itself about the DPS.

if smoothness and mobility is a selling point for a class in an action oriented mmorpg, then that's not good lol. that should be a standard because again, it implies the other classes either have one or the other, or neither. also making all classes smooth and mobile doesn't make the other classes less unique unless you consider stiff/slow attributes to seriously consider as a class bullet point. which i dont, and nor should anyone else imo.

i can't ever remember a game using those 2 things as a selling point for a class rather the whole game itself.

[Dark Mits]

This slightly depends on what we call mobility. I'd support the idea of a class that has limited mobility capabilities, but is relatively more effective than other classes in low-movement combat (like in a small arena).

Mobility is an issue in PSO2 because in a 12man mpa:
- Non-boss enemies die in a matter 1-2 seconds at most.
- Players do not have to "cool down" after a fight to be ready for the next.
- Enemies either do not drop anything (further reducing the need to "stay back" to collect spoils), or if they drop it is of negligible importance (50 meseta? a 6* weapon?)

This causes non-boss EQs to be rush-fests to the end. The more mobile you are, the faster you can get to the next run. The only exceptions are Tower Defense and Buster Quest, where immediate access to an enemy's location is important for better results (or even success).

[SteveCZ]

if smoothness and mobility is a selling point for a class in an action oriented mmorpg, then that's not good lol. that should be a standard because again, it implies the other classes either have one or the other, or neither. also making all classes smooth and mobile doesn't make the other classes less unique unless you consider stiff/slow attributes to seriously consider as a class bullet point. which i dont, and nor should anyone else imo.

i can't ever remember a game using those 2 things as a selling point for a class rather the whole game itself.

you are trying to generalize things and of course it will make them less unique. It's a fact not opinion. Lol.

[XrosBlader821]

To continue what Dark Mits pointed out. There are also Tri-boosts on a timer. people simply want to finish quests asap to not waste any of their buffs. Designing a Boss to not be an rushfest will just make people disappointed because everyone is on the clock.

[wefwq]

Just make every other classes that is not hero to be less stiff by making their weapon action/attack faster, make it's hitstop shorter and make animation faster/more brief. Bam, welcome to Gotta Terribly Fast Online 2.

If they gonna make older class to be more "specialized", i think they should make strong point of the class to be more well-pronounced. The recent player survey slightly shed some light into this issue, however some stuff still need to be addressed.


Ever since I came back to this game, it's been Hero this and Hero that, overpowered this, overpowered that. As someone who's capped that class to level 80, I can agree, playing with this class was a walk in the park, but just how much more powerful is it compared to the average main + sub class? Couple of updates ago, we got a 5% boost skill for every normal class, so that's a 10% combined, do you feel that this made it more fair? If not, how much more of a boost in terms of percentage damage to you think that regular classes should get?

Hero considered as "OP" because they're just good in about everything for your basic needs for EQ or just questing in general. By i mean "basic needs" of course, i'm not talking about damage but rather various utility & mobility to support yourself for whatever you want to do.
Having decent damage multipliers alone doesn't always make you strong, especially in action game like this.

Older classes can be as strong, but they require real effort to do so and who would want to do that if they can do as much with less effort involved.

[pkemr4]

You have demonia saber, your hero life is a bit easier now.

[Kondibon]

On the topic of how hero feels to play. I agree that all the classes should feel as good, but they don't all need to be the same about it. It's something I've wanted for a while, even before hero, and I think they've done a lot to push the other classes into a better place in terms of feel without making them all play the same.

My biggest complaint of other classes is actually that there are too many PAs. You end up with a situation where a bunch of PAs are either not used, or you have to constantly switch weapon palettes to use them all. I know people want more, and it's fun getting them, but I feel like JB Bo, and Hr hit the right spot with having just enough PAs, while also making them multipurpose, instead of stuff like backhand smash that only does the one thing.
Hr is the only class that has a good use case for all of its PAs.

Don't get me started on Techs. :wacko:

[Aexorcet]

My biggest complaint of other classes is actually that there are too many PAs. You end up with a situation where a bunch of PAs are either not used, or you have to constantly switch weapon palettes to use them all. I know people want more, and it's fun getting them, but I feel like JB Bo, and Hr hit the right spot with having just enough PAs, while also making them multipurpose, instead of stuff like backhand smash that only does the one thing.
This is another good point. Starting as Fo, I really hated moving to other classes that didn't let me put attacks on the subpalette. It's hard to arrange all the PA's/techs that you'd want into one spot. It's not a problem with the number of PA's so much as it is a problem with controls, at least for me. Switching weapons and especially subpalettes feels really clunky. Sometimes I wonder how the game would play if it didn't have multiple weapon slots and instead of letting you switch weapons gave you more room to map buttons to attacks. A third weapon palette might help too, it's so much faster than trying to weapon swap.

[Saagonsa]

Just make every other classes that is not hero to be less stiff by making their weapon action/attack faster, make it's hitstop shorter and make animation faster/more brief. Bam, welcome to Gotta Terribly Fast Online 2.

If they gonna make older class to be more "specialized", i think they should make strong point of the class to be more well-pronounced. The recent player survey slightly shed some light into this issue, however some stuff still need to be addressed.



Hero considered as "OP" because they're just good in about everything for your basic needs for EQ or just questing in general. By i mean "basic needs" of course, i'm not talking about damage but rather various utility & mobility to support yourself for whatever you want to do.
Having decent damage multipliers alone doesn't always make you strong, especially in action game like this.

Older classes can be as strong, but they require real effort to do so and who would want to do that if they can do as much with less effort involved.

What? If anything hero takes MORE effort to keep up its maximum DPS than any other class. You can very easily out-damage a mediocre hero who gets hit every now and then with mediocre play of a bunch of the old classes.

[XrosBlader821]

Imagine Techs would have different effects based on whenever your charge them up or not. Like uncharged it's a regular zonde but charging it up would give Zonde Typ0. Normal Tech Advance would finally see some use (although judging by newest Compounds in might already be an investment worth considering).

[aiMute]

-By smoothness I mean the class is very streamlined and excels at all range, with very little chanelling skills and completely free cancelling of everything by everything which makes it a very free flow class....Honestly it shouldn't apply to all classes either. It gives Hero a unique sense of power but it would utterly kill diversity if everybody was like that. Ranger is meant to channel stuff because it's a sniper,

Also I completely disagree with other classes being stiff. The flow is not as fast as Hero, but Hero stands at the absolute ceiling within the boundaries of what the game allows. Damage is its only limiting factor, which is actually bad design from my standpoint, but hey, tastes
While I agree that giving every class maximum smoothness(playability) is wrong, nevertheless every class should have "enough" smoothness both to not suck completely in some situations and to keep up with fast gameplay flow smoothly.

You should play more Ra, it a good example of class that almost completely lacks smoothness and number of people playing it says a lot about how players feel about it.
The class is VERY stiff and clunky, you know that something is very wrong with it when you are unable to dodge almost any attack when releasing charged PA the moment you see the attack telegraphing. This is what smoothness is about - you are in control of your character and only punished by your mistakes not retarded mechanics/class design. It could be fine if you could use some slow PA for some tradeoff but atm you are not only vulnurable during startup/charge, you also are at (even greater) risk even after the attack is executed but because it can be negated by automeme sega thinks it's "fine" (and players think it's fine to not play Ra and pick Hr instead). Ra also has stupid movement freeze when using fast PAs in the air but not on the ground and those screw up standing snipe anyway as you fall down before you can JA next PA so it has no reason to exist. This makes it very very frustrating to fight with Ranger in close combat, even more so with increasing amount of staggering trash mobs.
Btw, snipers aren't about killing shit at long range, mobility and concealment are as important, "rangers" too are supposed to be mobile all-terrain infantry and somehow mobility is one thing lacks Ra completely.

Sega said they are going to address "Hr-like amenities" for other classes, so will see what happens then, though the question is when...


Just make every other classes that is not hero to be less stiff by making their weapon action/attack faster, make it's hitstop shorter and make animation faster/more brief. Bam, welcome to Gotta Terribly Fast Online 2.

Which is probably the only solution, though I'd rather nerf Hr, but sega/KMR wont nerf their ep5 superstar. Range matters little now when everyone is so fast you can gapclose faster than some ranged attacks hit the enemy and this is exactly what KMR wants as a replacement to slower game where you had to use your brain a little, gay lizard EQ is a prime example of (a fucking retarded boss design) this.

[AVO]

You all can come up with 1 billion ways how to make the class feels smoother but it wouldn't matter if the Japanese player base say nothing about it in their survey feedback. Nor SEGA using the 'i cant read English' for the western player base. FeelsBouncerMan

[Kondibon]

You all can come up with 1 billion ways how to make the class feels smoother but it wouldn't matter if the Japanese player base say nothing about it in their survey feedback. Nor SEGA using the 'i cant read English' for the western player base. FeelsBouncerManThe japanese players have said stuff, that's why all the classes got so many QoL buffs.

[aiMute]

The way Standing Snipe works should also be overhauled to proc exactly after one second and break as soon as moment is involved, while being more lenient so that slight walking and recoils don't make you lose it. That + coming step jump charm and probably double jump change would be enough to fix most of RA's mobility issues and clunkiness.
Also sharpshooter is there to tell you close combat isn't your field anyway, and even then between MH, armor SSAs and potentials, and PAs designed to let you escape like Cosmos Breaker, you can really get around it if you so want.

Pretty sure those changes won't be enough, if you won't have mobile PAs and evasion shit it'll be back to parallel zero only memes in solo content.
No, sharpshooter is there to tell me that I can do more damage at range, it isn't there to tell me I should completely suck in CQC which goes against the whole "smoothness" concept. And Ra already has CQC PAs, all that's left is to make them usable. Also the whole MH facetanking is lazy design and should never be considered the core element of Ra (or any other class) gameplay.

Let's compare Hr and Ra (though gotta say that Hr TMGs are more CQC oriented).
Let's take Hr first - it can move around with monkey business above enemy heads to score free headshots and evade attacks, it can cancel PAs with quick dash that doesn't require wasting time to get JA that can be turned into normal counters or BNS counterattack which gives him complete invulnerability for the duration. Outside of counters BNS is a long range PA that is supposed to be used outside of melee range. In addition to BNS being usable when enemies are close, Hr also has 2nd of Edge to gapclose for melee (including TMG) PAs thus allowing Hr to both move (and evade shots), do frontal aoe and change engagement distance. The last PA, without mobility, is a long range single target PA so it doesn't matter. Also Hr normals allow it to move, jump AND shoot, including double-triple etc jumping on locked enemy heads for (almost) free unlimited headshots. All those actions are seamless, you spend 0 frames on useless shit, you either shoot, move jump and shoot (even when evading) or reload hueg amount of PP.
Now take Ra, it can only move on the ground with shotgun, if it jumps it stays in one spot and then falls down which makes it worse than just walking plus you lose DPS on jumping/evasion, there are no other good PAs for CQC. With lawnchair it's somewhat better but PAs are very slow, stagger won't help against most enemies and you need JA from normals unlike FREE JA HERO (that means spending 1 second in one spot, at least it can(should) be done in the air) because Hu is the the only Ra sub thanks KMR, and the only thing that gives Ra above zero chance to not get hit in CQC is ability to walk and jump during divine lawnchair zero charge. As a Ra you spend quite a lot of time trying to not get hit (or just go hurrdurr MH) using slow dive roll because getting hit means stagger thus losing JA anyway thus wasting time on JA again, and while dive roll attacks with rifle aren't that bad (losing altitude sucks but so is rifle air combat so it doesn't matter), lawnchair roll attacks are bad they are useless tier making rolling and jumping (and wasting more time) the only option.

p.s. I do hope those charms to save pleb normal classes won't require to carry the rings.


You all can come up with 1 billion ways how to make the class feels smoother but it wouldn't matter if the Japanese player base say nothing about it in their survey feedback. Nor SEGA using the 'i cant read English' for the western player base. FeelsBouncerMan
It's probably the same with majority of english playerbase too, most people vote what they think no matter if they main class or just play it occasionally thus you get results where Te players are OK with butchered class (people just buff, that's enough "contribution" for most), Bo has no problems with JB or techs (tech Bo's don't exist so they get no votes), Ra is "good" WB dispenser (WB and occasional PAs make them feel "useful") and other stupid shit.

[Youmu Konpaku]

as a Fi, i need to careful watch my hp under limit break so i'm not losing dps

as a Gu, i need to careful with my chain, when it must end, when the boss fly, so i can get good dps.

as a Fo, i need to careful with my dodge or i'm a dead person in mpa

as a Te, i need to watch my teammates to not die in the dragon rematch.

as a Hero, i can play with eating, chatting with friends, chatting with my real life friends, checking my phones, change my mp3 in winamp, and still get good or great dps.

[GHNeko]

as a fi, i can faceroll my controller and let ds and td armor frames and knux iframes let me do 999999 dps while abusing IW and LBI and lifesteal weapons

as a gu, i can spam another sroll over and over and over and i can also get hit and continue my chain and as long as i finish it i only have to wait 1s to spam more chain

as a fo i just need to press photon flare and then double my dps and block with charging techs and spam mirage that has enough iframes that i dont even get hit by mother's dps wipe attack

as a te, i literally just press one button

as a hero, i cant be hit because if i do i lose 60% damage and then my dps will fall a lot



see i can do it too :wacko:

[ArcaneTechs]

as a Fi, i need to careful watch my hp under limit break so i'm not losing dps

as a Gu, i need to careful with my chain, when it must end, when the boss fly, so i can get good dps.

as a Fo, i need to careful with my dodge or i'm a dead person in mpa

as a Te, i need to watch my teammates to not die in the dragon rematch.

as a Hero, i can play with eating, chatting with friends, chatting with my real life friends, checking my phones, change my mp3 in winamp, and still get good or great dps.

truly the definition of casual

[Golgotha]

Now when they've made the best class possible in players opinion, i.e. threw out everything that made the class system to have a point at all, subs, stats, skill trees. After five waves of balancing, it turns out that class that is easy to play still requires at least some effort to outperform other classes. Hero time boosting is kinda emulated via weapon and PA cycling, a shadow of what other classes have to put up with to at least survive.
Its kinda ironic seeing complaints about weak hero now. Maybe they will buff it at 90 cap to let it easily hop over other classes once again.



as a hero, i cant be hit because if i do i lose 60% damage and then my dps will fall a lot

case in point.
I sure do like blindly mashing step to dish out hundreds of kilodamage on everything involved.

[Youmu Konpaku]

see i can do it too :wacko:

too much work fam .. :wacko:


truly the definition of casual

do you know its a joke? :wacko:

[jooozek]

case in point.
I sure do like blindly mashing step to dish out hundreds of kilodamage on everything involved.
s-roll isn't called step bruh

edit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmpebeQ4AI

[aiMute]

snip

...no. You missed the point, it was a comparison stating the differences to show how "smoothness" affects gameplay and how shitty it is to play class that almost completely lacks it, just that. And where don't you see parallel meme zero? It and jumping dodge ring is almost mandatory for solo content.
Automeme is exactly the crap that allows sega to make shitty clunky classes and ignore them because automeme and iron luck keeps them alive, they also made sure that most classes have Hu as sub. Single PA abuse is boring and unfun, more news at 11! Who doesn't want diversity in their gameplay? Hr has 3 usable weapons with multipurpose PAs and seamless smooth gameplay but with Ra it's just "spam one PA :^)" that's supposed to be enough? Also parallel meme is single target.
Just play more Ra, it's all good and nice only when watching from sidelines.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmpebeQ4AI
Thanks for reminding me that the current (mistake) director was in charge of ep2 balance.

[starwind75043]

On the topic of how hero feels to play. I agree that all the classes should feel as good, but they don't all need to be the same about it. It's something I've wanted for a while, even before hero, and I think they've done a lot to push the other classes into a better place in terms of feel without making them all play the same.

My biggest complaint of other classes is actually that there are too many PAs. You end up with a situation where a bunch of PAs is either not used, or you have to constantly switch weapon palettes to use them all. I know people want more, and it's fun getting them, but I feel like JB Bo, and Hr hit the right spot with having just enough PAs, while also making them multipurpose, instead of stuff like backhand smash that only does the one thing.
Hr is the only class that has a good use case for all of its PAs.

Don't get me started on Techs. :wacko:

I don't have a problem with adding more techs or pa's being added I just wish they would use the crafting system to do that. (Or just come up with a reason to use the crafting system in general...)

overall the balance is there whether you choose to believe it or not heck things problem overall favor standard classes at this time. At this point, other than fine-tuning a few things I think they have done an overall good job of balancing.

Now hopefully they learned something from this and next eps new class comes out were not having to do this again.

[Tunga]

a lot of people in this thread focus on hero's damage too much rather than

I believe the ease of use is the best aspect of hero.

[GHNeko]

I believe the ease of use is the best aspect of hero.

yeah you're right but almost everytime hero's balance is brought up so is its damage output and damage output relative to its ease of use.

[SteveCZ]

as a hero, i cant be hit because if i do i lose 60% damage and then my dps will fall a lot

Yup. Demonia to the rescue.. if it ever drops. ):


... do you know its a joke? :wacko:

Be careful on joking about inferiority here. You'll be attacked by some predators! :-(


Its kinda ironic seeing complaints about weak hero now. Maybe they will buff it at 90 cap to let it easily hop over other classes once again.



Nobody ever said Hero was bad, the only thing people even dared to say is that Hero is more or less the best in slot, but not the absolute utter best anymore.. As in you can actually take non-Hero classes in some places without being a literal deadweight regardless of your proficiency at said classes like it used to be EP5 start... and you can even one-up it in particular quests with particular classes. Just because Hero is grossly overrated by some people doesn't mean you should underrate it either xD

To be honest right now there are no classes to feel underrated (or overrated) really, more or less, at least for me. Not sure how people would underrate it, but if I ever heard of them, mostly because it's so easy to use (cheap) instead of it being underpowered. It does "feel" overpowered because it's so freaking smooth, and the fact that some people are still traumatized (!?) on how Hero being too powerful when it first came out.


yeah you're right but almost everytime hero's balance is brought up so is its damage output and damage output relative to its ease of use.

Of course a lot of people will talk about the damage output, especially when this Hero's biggest weakness (and strength) is its Hero boost itself. Can't really separate balance of both damage and usability. Besides, the game always leads back to how fast you can kill the enemy, hence DPS abbreviation which always links both.

Anyway, the topic is about how's this passive skill damage bonus compare to Hero, but in reality most people here still agree about its ease of use even if Hero's damage is just okay and how that compensates more or less equally over other classes' damage boost or updates. At least that's what I read until today.

[ArcaneTechs]

do you know its a joke? :wacko:
do you know ppl actually play this way? *magic*

[Golgotha]

s-roll isn't called step bruh

Still feels kinda lacking tbh
Needs just a bit more to 50k with any average weapon, and we good.

[aiMute]

I play much more RA than you think, And I never had an issue with some of its clunkiness because I find RA conditionals to be very limiting but also very fun. Also no you don't see only parallel 0 in any content aside from solo XQ... you know the place where Hero has to use stupid cheese strat and/or abuse counter step/vapor ? That's on the design of the quest...not on RA. Now, if you only spam Para 0 in any other content, then yeah RA must seem very sad to you

Also Hero has one weapon with one PA you don't even use because Safoie is better, followed by two gear sticks... RA uses at least 6 different PAs for Rifle and 5/6 for Launcher, barring the more situational ones. To me you sound like someone who switched to Hero and can't fathom how people can find more limiting playstyles enjoyable. I can understand how people like classes whose gameplay mold according to your wishes, but please try to make an effort and understand some other might like having a class that molds your own playstyle and forces you to play in a unique way,

And Yes RA has tons of nuances and diversity, and just because you can't grasp them doesn't mean it's a worthless class. I'm pretty much done with this and won't push the subject further since it must be annoying to everybody on this thread.

Tone down passive-aggressiveness a bit please.
SoloXQ (and some other solo content) is The stage that shows how good class is on its own and in every one parallel slider is used way too much, not only the cheesy Hero stage. You can't call counter step "abusing", it's like saying that Br just guarding is an abuse too. And if you are "fine" with class, it doesn't mean others are too, I said what I don't like, listing both flow and actual problems, and that Hr is reverse of it which makes it both one of if not the strongest in all non-boss content, if you don't agree, okay, but don't go "you just don't know how to enjoy Ra, look at those diverse weapons, one of which is useless at mobbing, another at bossing and that both being clunky is actually good in the current ultrafast gameplay" while making wrong implications.

p.s. how is safoie having lower dps than talis normals better?

[Zulastar]

"you just don't know how to enjoy Ra, look at those diverse weapons, one of which is useless at mobbing, another at bossing and that both being clunky is actually good in the current ultrafast gameplay" while making wrong implications.
Yep that's the point not only for Ra but for all classes. I tried to do Free Buster with DS FiHu recently and ended up just running around and barely able to hit some golems and mobs at buster phase while few Hr melting mobs with their sword weapon action.

[XrosBlader821]

p.s. how is safoie having lower dps than talis normals better?
Safoie is better cuz faster than Flash Trick.
However that is ignoring flash tricks double speed once in range of mobs, higher dps in general and properly appearing in front of the airborne enemy instead of clipping at it's foot. ;-)

[Zorak000]

all I remember was that they initially intended this kind of "advanced class" to be something players would more permanently move to; but through a bewildering sheer lack of judgement and foresight, they only made one of them to last an entire episode. they were going to focus on expanding hero for a while, but the intense pushback from the playerbase caused them to seemingly throw most of their plans for episode 5 out the window. However due to the slow process of bureaucracy, I assume most of the content up to Dragon was their inital plans, just with a focus on buffing all of the other classes instead of the expansions on hero.

as it stands now, hero has a very low skill floor and a very high skill ceiling. The weapons are easy to use; even the "bad" things like holding rising slash forever, using only basic attacks (of all three weapon types tbh) can at least get the job done at a relatively decent rate. meanwhile a highly skilled hero is scary powerful; avoiding damage to maintain hero boost, landing loads of counters, and possibly even getting hero gear maxed out before the hero time cooldown ends can make a well played hero tear through content at breakneck speeds.

however now the other classes are in much better places than they were back at the start of episode 5, with a little more power coming to force, techer, and summoner coming up in a couple updates. as it currently stands, the old classes have been scaled up to hero's place generally.

[Velmoria]

Ranger never meant to perform well when being targeted or in dangerous area. The "clunkiness" and lack of super armor PA pretty much says about it.
End Attract and Satellite Cannon PA mainly are Ranger's source of damage. As long they requires charge time, Ranger will always remain "clunky".
While most of Rifle PA allow Ranger to become more smooth & flexible, the damage it dealt still easily being outperformed by Hero's sword normal attack spam.

[aiMute]

Solo XQ only show how good a class is at duelling very agressive things, and yes RA is bad at that due to its very nature... but its one of its few weaknesses. It has more than enough tools to solo despite being a party-oriented class (WB and faring better without aggro than with) but that's something people seem to dislike since it seems every class should be able to solo everything even if their kit relies more around supporting. Still didn't prevent RA from getting amongst the best times for both Dragon and Omega Loser solo.

Yes I'm being agressive, but that's only because the only thing I've been seeing is senseless complaints about how RA should be without even considering how changing some parts of RA could potentially kill its uniqueness while also being very condescending about it : of course, saying RA is not as bad or clunky as how you perceive means people can't be playing the class and only judging from outside. I've already stated it needs some changes, but most of the things I saw are completely unrealistic desires, that will hopefully be fulfilled with whatever advanced class using a rifle comes next. Given how Hero TMG turned out, I'm not holding my breath here
Reminder, that sega has already stated they going to address "Hr-like amenities" for other classes, but it's in the future, for now Hr is the top dog of most non-boss content.

The PSO2 actually is about people being able to perform solo, even in MPAs it's about you being useful by doing damage not some holy trinity shit like in other MMOs - everyone can heal and everyone can do damage with Te being the only (exception) true support class even though it was raped in ep5.
The whole reason shitstorm with Hr started was because how fast and smooth (and allmighty) it was completely dominating ALL non-boss content (well, boss content too), only after sega introduced crutches for other classes it went to more or less acceptable levels, but still, Hero CHANGED the game(dynamics), crutch wasn't Hr nerf, it was making all other classes stronger (mainly via normals and PP gen) and faster but it was done hastily thus sega is yet to fix Hr shit with promised "amenities", saying that clunkiness is uniqueness that should remain is being overly conservative, especially when mobs are becoming more and more aggressive (which I like) - you can always compare monkey that barely attacks or some other trash mob with ep5 guys that attack more frequently and faster, and have wider attack aoe with some shit clientsided or targetting multiple players.

p.s. Ra support starts and ends at wb, Te can sub Ra and remove all the "uniqueness" without losing anything which is what most Te do. Also, not sucking completely is not the same as being good at, rather than letting something stay so bad that it's never used it's much much better to make it not optimal but usable so it at least provides some gameplay value for the players.

[aiMute]

Steered off topic but you gotta have the last word, heh. You can just stop you know. I at least try to stay close to topic as in the end it's about Hr broken levels of seamless smooth and FAST gameplay that make all classes and not just Ra feel bad, you just go making up wrong implications for whatever reason.

[aiMute]

Thread title : "So the Hero class, the first advance class, how much more powerful is it"

My answer : the strongest at floor level, but difference is largely closed in by the other classes at higher levels of plays, with the specific case of RA not being that far from it, and straight up being a better choice in some quests if you can leverage its kit, while only being limited by its conditionals and chanelling skills which I consider to be part of the class identity"

Your disagreement from this is mostly what started it, and yes I'm an annoying old class bitch that likes taking care of the poor grandpas, deal with it, and please stop being so butthurt about this...be a gentleman, close it in with a "I respect your opinion but I disagree" which is exactly what I did for you to be able to close this discussion in an elegant way.
Nah, just let me say that for amount of text and thought you put into this your memory and/or reading comprehension skills suck.

[Zephyrion]

I've seen the ways of my horrible pagan and outdated thoughts, the light shone through and I can see a brand new world, all hail Hero !!!

[Reilet]

Hero is garbage when you actually know how to play the other classes lel. Fite me.

[Zephyrion]

Hero is garbage when you actually know how to play the other classes lel. Fite me.

What are you saying, lol DPS charts, buffs, solo times of other classes, another S-roll, all these things are just lies to blind you from the absolute and undisputable truth : Hero is the best class that was ever designed, and can't possibly lose in any field, and true enjoyment can't be experienced until you finally get to play it ! Not playing it is an heresy that I just can't fathom hence why I demand all other classes should be erased and Hero Boost should become fully unconditional ! Embrace the Great Pan cause, and let us all sing happily under the reign of the true advancement, the natural evolution !

[Zulastar]

Hero is garbage when you actually know how to play the other classes lel. Fite me.

Well try to do a Dragon EQ with DS FiHu. I bet you'll spend 95% of the time chasing it movings not DPS while Hero can maintain at least 80% contact with the target any time except when it fully invulnerable. And there's nothing to do how well can you play Fi itself.

[Zephyrion]

Well try to do a Dragon EQ with DS FiHu. I bet you'll spend 95% of the time chasing it movings not DPS while Hero can maintain at least 80% contact with the target any time except when it fully invulnerable. And there's nothing to do how well can you play Fi itself.

FI/HU doesn't exist on Dragon, nothing does, except Hero, and maybe TE/RA, but only because it brings Hero's brilliance to its peak ! Let the ignorant people wallow in despair as they are left completely powerless against Dragon, while Hero destroys it and show those idiots their true place.

[Zulastar]

FI/HU doesn't exist on Dragon, nothing does, except Hero, and maybe TE/RA, but only because it brings Hero's brilliance to its peak ! Let the ignorant people wallow in despair as they are left completely powerless against Dragon, while Hero destroys it and show those idiots their true place.

I know, but some people (like a person I quoted up there) still argue and try to prove something. Unreasonable.
Or it was a sarcasm?

[milranduil]

FI/HU doesn't exist on Dragon, nothing does, except Hero, and maybe TE/RA, but only because it brings Hero's brilliance to its peak ! Let the ignorant people wallow in despair as they are left completely powerless against Dragon, while Hero destroys it and show those idiots their true place.

gunner would like a word with you

[Zephyrion]

gunner would like a word with you

Gunner, that pleb class that currently went past the broken point with another S-roll and literally wrecked Omega Loser under 20 minutes ? It is only a taste of the future conic AoE Hero is bound to have on its weapon to reclaim its holy and mighty throne ! Just look at the beautiful, united and clever consensus this thread has blessed us with ! Hero can't be anything but the best !

[milranduil]

Gunner, that pleb class that currently went past the broken point with another S-roll and literally wrecked Omega Loser under 20 minutes ? It is only a taste of the future conic AoE Hero is bound to have on its weapon to reclaim its holy and mighty throne ! Just look at the beautiful, united and clever consensus this thread has blessed us with ! Hero can't be anything but the best !

okay.

[Zulastar]

Gunner, that pleb class that currently went past the broken point with another S-roll and literally wrecked Omega Loser under 20 minutes ? It is only a taste of the future conic AoE Hero is bound to have on its weapon to reclaim its holy and mighty throne ! Just look at the beautiful, united and clever consensus this thread has blessed us with ! Hero can't be anything but the best !

I agree when it comes to lame players which don't know how to play, don't play often or just lvl up class.
But skillful Guner paired with TMG Hero, who knows what to do, can dish out 100% Chains every 10-20 seconds.

[Tunga]

Oh hello there brother Zeph, i see you are spreading the holy word of our lord and savior the Hero! keep up the good work and let the non-believers wallow away in there sins for when Sega begins the great journey they will be left behind.

[Zephyrion]

Oh hello there brother Zeph, i see you are spreading the holy word of our lord and savior the Hero! keep up the good work and let the non-believers wallow away in there sins for when Sega begins the great journey they will be left behind.

Thank you for your unwavering support brother Tunga. We have a lot of work as I see many heretics still trying to show the potential of the pagan classes. Those ina, ponthi, milranduil guys amongst other, playing other classes and performing with them is inexcusable ! Worse even is this small Gunner cult which is spreading like a dark corruption with its devilish chains and rolls. We need to reform them and cleanse their sins ! Only then Hero will finally be able to expand its radiance to the world ! All hail Hero !

[Arada]

This thread is becoming hero-tic.

[Dragwind]

I'd say it's all pretty balanced right now after playing each class extensively, with su and fo lagging behind if you don't have candied pets/atra or epd respectively (which thankfully I do).

[TheFanaticViper]

This thread is becoming hero-tic.

I would said hero-nic :-D

[Arada]

I would said hero-nic :-D

There's a bromance happening right here between Zeph' and Tunga. :-)

[Tunga]

The only love here is the love for our Holy Lord & Savior Hero.

[Poyonche]

Best thread ever thanks to the Hero Apostles.