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Altiea
Aug 4, 2018, 11:51 AM
Conqueror's Crests
- The mid-October update will add Conqueror's Crests to Bonus Quests and older raids as drops.

King's Crest
- A new Crest type that will drop in newer raids and the Underground Nightmare Trigger Quest.
- You can buy different 14*s with King's Crests.
- You can trade King's Crests for Conqueror's Crests.

Evleda
- Unit upgrades are still coming as planned. There was a miscommunication earlier where it was announced that they would not be getting the upgrade as previously announced.
- Weapon CFs will be revived in the future.

Phantasy Star Zero
- A PS0 event will be held towards the end of the year for the game's 10th anniversary.

First Arts/Next Jump
- No SP consumption to purchase.

Misc. Buffs
- Break SD Bonus will be buffed in October.
- Phobos will be buffed in October.

Ares-NT
- There will be no OT to NT upgrade.
- Ares-NT boosts power based on the PB gauge. In addition, it gives a bonus effect based on the equipped Photon Blast, such as Helix giving bonus damage while Ketos giving natural PP regen.

Expert
- No plans to update Expert in the near future.

Collabs
- A Valkyria Chronicles 4 collab will happen sometime soon. PSO2es Chips will also be included.
- A Soul Reverse Zero (a SEGA mobage) collab will also happen in the near future.

SteveCZ
Aug 4, 2018, 12:00 PM
Freezing lobby action is the best thing to happen. :-)

Moffen
Aug 4, 2018, 12:35 PM
"Expert
- No plans to update Expert in the near future."

Then just remove the setting,theres no difference anymore.

XrosBlader821
Aug 4, 2018, 12:38 PM
Hopefully Break SD Bonus will be buffed to not be exclusively about Dual Blades and Mainclass only so that Bo as a subclass becomes more considerable. I know I'm asking for too much but Sega did manage to make Su a good subclass so I wish they'd be able to do the same with Bo.

Anduril
Aug 4, 2018, 12:43 PM
"Expert
- No plans to update Expert in the near future."

Then just remove the setting,theres no difference anymore.

Have you run an EQ or Arkuma Land on non-Expert XH lately? It is hell. Sure you have some people who got carried into Expert by friends, but they at least had the drive and desire to try and do it, but back in non-Expert it's just plain bad. Sure removing it and mixing the full playerbase back together might work, but then you get back to the old issue of people camping in blocks and risking getting mixed in with people who can't even be bothered to at least +30 60% a weapon.

Jene-chan
Aug 4, 2018, 12:52 PM
I really like how they flip-flopped on Buster Unit upgrades. First they said there would be upgrades, then they said (on stream) that there wouldn't be but now they apologized and said it was a mistake and there /will/ be upgrades. I wonder how you even make a mistake like that. lol

ArcaneTechs
Aug 4, 2018, 01:11 PM
Conqueror's Crests
- The mid-October update will add Conqueror's Crests to Bonus Quests and older raids as drops.

King's Crest
- A new Crest type that will drop in newer raids and the Underground Nightmare Trigger Quest.
- You can buy different 14*s with King's Crests.
- You can trade King's Crests for Conqueror's Crests.
more ez handouts with what will most likely be a 10:1 or 5:1 conversion rate so people can whine about having 1k+ passes and not get what they want


Evleda
- Unit upgrades are still coming as planned. There was a miscommunication earlier where it was announced that they would not be getting the upgrade as previously announced.
- Weapon CFs will be revived in the future.
.
about time

FantasyHeaven
Aug 4, 2018, 01:34 PM
people who can't even be bothered to at least +30 60% a weapon.
Wonder how this is even possible when they literally hand out fully grinded 13*s now.
The game also keeps matching me with this one tool that parasites every eq with a camouflaged emperor axeon. Like that fucking couple % it gives you is ever gonna do anything. Instant report and ditch when I run into the guy. Name ends with "edge".

Anduril
Aug 4, 2018, 01:51 PM
Wonder how this is even possible when they literally hand out fully grinded 13*s now.
It is probably becuase they are doing a different class than what they used their Certificates for, or they just don't give a damn and just use whatever newest weapon from CF they get or whatever dropped for them in a quest. There is also the possibility that a lot of them don't even know how the weapon system works and just ended up power leveling through the LQ. Anecdotal, I admit, but I was doing Arkuma Land with a non-Expert teammate and several of the people in the run just had a base 100 Badge Homura weapon, not one from the Certificate, just a +0 30% one.

XrosBlader821
Aug 4, 2018, 02:17 PM
Oh btw. Apparently so many people were upset with how awful the Phobos Weapons are designed that they're gonna be buffed sometime soon.


more ez handouts with what will most likely be a 10:1 or 5:1 conversion rate so people can whine about having 1k+ passes and not get what they want

From what I read on a JP website, the conversion rate is supposed to be 1:2 so Kings Crests are used for the new, more relevant weapons while Conquerors Crest are getting de-valued and easier to get since they're only gonna be used on the outdated EP4 14* weapons.

Altiea
Aug 4, 2018, 02:54 PM
As it stands, the only things that are really must-have from the Conq. Crest shop are Lavis Cannon, Rykros Staff, and maybe Jupiter Tullus. Everything else is either a marginal upgrade from existing, easily obtainable series or just outright worse than said series. EPD is also in dire straits because of the upcoming October update, which, depending on SEGA's whims, may become far less useful in the near future.

XrosBlader821
Aug 4, 2018, 04:50 PM
So during the Livestream they said they're gonna increase the drop rate of Jutus Weapon Series. Is this already in effect? I got 3 Jutus weapons from LQ today after that Livestream, 2 Talis and 1 Dual Blade, on Bouncer. I can work towards a Lumiere Talis now, something I wasn't planning on till Boost Week.

Azure Falcon
Aug 4, 2018, 04:55 PM
Typical, I saved all my crests (1.5k) in the expectation of Motav being eventually added to the lineup eventually and now they add a different crest...

Lostbob117
Aug 4, 2018, 05:15 PM
So during the Livestream they said they're gonna increase the drop rate of Jutus Weapon Series. Is this already in effect? I got 3 Jutus weapons from LQ today after that Livestream, 2 Talis and 1 Dual Blade, on Bouncer. I can work towards a Lumiere Talis now, something I wasn't planning on till Boost Week.

They plan to have a boost event for Enchanted Forest Free Field on the 8th when they add Omega Apprezina into it. During the boost, Jutus drop rate will be increased.

cheapgunner
Aug 4, 2018, 05:42 PM
They plan to have a boost event for Enchanted Forest Free Field on the 8th when they add Omega Apprezina into it. During the boost, Jutus drop rate will be increased.

Good. perhaps I can get a coupel jutus swords/wire lances/TMGs and buff my Hero and hunter classes. Getting Akatsuki or Demonia Sword/TMGs seems fruitless to try runnign that quest. :/

Silent_Flower
Aug 4, 2018, 05:58 PM
Conqueror's Crests
- The mid-October update will add Conqueror's Crests to Bonus Quests and older raids as drops.


According to bumped, the weekly campaign for Conqueror's Crests will end on Aug 29. RIP

Thou I won't be missing much because I only missing Quelle Scarlette, Kazami-no-tachi and Jupiter Tullus. I also got over 2k crests that I not bothering to use.



King's Crest
- A new Crest type that will drop in newer raids and the Underground Nightmare Trigger Quest.
- You can buy different 14*s with King's Crests.
- You can trade King's Crests for Conqueror's Crests.


I hope Demonia is also on the list. I swear I get everything beside what I wanted...

2 Akatsuki, Gilde Girola, Bran Absolute, Reaver Garola, Spread Needle, Yasminkov 4000FJ, Quella Windea, Eternal Psycho Drive,
3 Lavis Cannon and 2 Rykos Staff.

I also got 6 Guren/Shien, 3 Appress Grudge, 3 Zirenheit and 1 Phobos Elex (double saber).

I even gotten 1 Chronos Time Stone, which is even rarer than Demonia yet I still don't have one.

*start smashing head against the table*

landman
Aug 4, 2018, 05:58 PM
I hope PSZ collab will include lobby action with tentacles.

Cyber Meteor
Aug 4, 2018, 06:06 PM
I hope Demonia is also on the list. I swear I get everything beside what I wanted...

That was some times ago, a bit after Conqueror crests exchange was announced, the only time they mentionned Demonia crests exchange, they said it would require a different type of crest. So you should be able to get your demonia with those King crests

Shoterxx
Aug 5, 2018, 01:50 PM
Why Break when you can have Elemental (outside of niche situations).
I don't think buffing SD Bonus will fix it, unless they go for broke, and make it 100% effective all the time on any weapon.

XrosBlader821
Aug 5, 2018, 03:16 PM
Why Break when you can have Elemental (outside of niche situations).
I don't think buffing SD Bonus will fix it, unless they go for broke, and make it 100% effective all the time on any weapon.

But then like why even bother with elemental stance at all (120% x 110% = 132%. 100% of Break Stance is 135%)

I'd perhaps buff the stances themselves to make them better as subclass multipliers (and increase the amount you get from Break SD Bonus as a result).
139% from elemental stance + shifta air and 156% from Break + Shifta Air is just not good enough when stacked against any other stances. Gosh I remember back when Bo was close to release and Unlucky was predicting the stances to be garbage and here we are in 2018 and little has changed.

Shoterxx
Aug 5, 2018, 04:55 PM
But then like why even bother with elemental stance at all (120% x 110% = 132%. 100% of Break Stance is 135%)

Downtime and use cases.

Elemental on Jet Boots or rainbow set is pretty much a guaranteed 132% (+25% Crit for FiBo) boost.
Break is 148.5% on breakables, but a big fat 0 after they break (except DBs, but even then, it's just 124.25%), not to mention a lot of breakables are not weak points before breaking, so you're losing further output.

XrosBlader821
Aug 5, 2018, 05:31 PM
Downtime and use cases.

Elemental on Jet Boots or rainbow set is pretty much a guaranteed 132% (+25% Crit for FiBo) boost.
Break is 148.5% on breakables, but a big fat 0 after they break (except DBs, but even then, it's just 124.25%), not to mention a lot of breakables are not weak points before breaking, so you're losing further output.

Yes. That's how it works now. My point is about the thing you suggested.
If you bump up Break SD Bonus to 100% Break stance will give 135% unconditionally which is higher than Elemental Stance + Elemental Stance up by 3%. Also Break SD bonus only takes the % of the main skill into account so currently it gives 117.5% not 124.25%

Velmoria
Aug 5, 2018, 05:32 PM
Downtime and use cases.

Elemental on Jet Boots or rainbow set is pretty much a guaranteed 132% (+25% Crit for FiBo) boost.
Break is 148.5% on breakables, but a big fat 0 after they break (except DBs, but even then, it's just 124.25%), not to mention a lot of breakables are not weak points before breaking, so you're losing further output.

Actually it just 17.5%, Break Stance up is not counted in Break SD Bonus.
And Elemental Stance has fixed 15% to non- attribute weakness.

ArcaneTechs
Aug 5, 2018, 05:51 PM
I think the real question is when the hell is my Alpha Lobby ever going to come back??? lobbies change from even and odd number blocks. is the Alpha Lobby data even in game anymore??

final_attack
Aug 5, 2018, 07:40 PM
by ”Phobos will be buffed", it means the weapon or also the unit? I personally would like to get the unit to drop 1st :<

I wonder if "First Arts" applies to SRoll using Hunter as sub _(:3」

And .... for Evleda unit, I wonder if we'll get 2x upgrade (I think the weapon can be upgraded twice? I forgot -.- ), or 2 option for upgrade (1 for HP, 1 for PP ..... on top of additional defense. Since current unit is pretty balanced for now)

Lostbob117
Aug 5, 2018, 08:17 PM
by ”Phobos will be buffed", it means the weapon or also the unit? I personally would like to get the unit to drop 1st :<

I wonder if "First Arts" applies to SRoll using Hunter as sub _(:3」

And .... for Evleda unit, I wonder if we'll get 2x upgrade (I think the weapon can be upgraded twice? I forgot -.- ), or 2 option for upgrade (1 for HP, 1 for PP ..... on top of additional defense. Since current unit is pretty balanced for now)

It means the weapon, it'll be made easier to use it's potential.

final_attack
Aug 5, 2018, 08:20 PM
It means the weapon, it'll be made easier to use it's potential.

Ah, all right. Thanks!

XrosBlader821
Aug 6, 2018, 03:02 AM
I wonder if "First Arts" applies to SRoll using Hunter as sub _(:3
First Arts will trigger JA Bonus 1 and 2 but not JA Combo up

final_attack
Aug 6, 2018, 06:16 AM
First Arts will trigger JA Bonus 1 and 2 but not JA Combo up

Hmm .... It'll put it closer to Fi for rolling then _(:3」
Still, I wonder if it not affected by the Fury JA Combo .... wasn't the Fury JA only need to do JA while under FuryStance?

Shoterxx
Aug 6, 2018, 06:34 AM
Yes. That's how it works now. My point is about the thing you suggested.

Aight, I understood it as you saying Break was the better option pre-buff.
Post-buff though, even if they removed main-only and added 100% effectiveness, FiBo would still have Elemental, since 132% and 25% crit is better than 135% and no crit, despite also doing 135%*110% and 25% crit occasionally.

XrosBlader821
Aug 6, 2018, 07:01 AM
Hmm .... It'll put it closer to Fi for rolling then _(:3」
Still, I wonder if it not affected by the Fury JA Combo .... wasn't the Fury JA only need to do JA while under FuryStance?

Fury Combo Up Increases Damage for consecutive attacks that have been JA during Fury Stance. First Arts works only on the first Attack of a Combo which by definition isn't a consecutive attack. The only scenario where first Arts would proc Fury Combo Up was when you'd miss a JA ring after an attack.


Aight, I understood it as you saying Break was the better option pre-buff.
Post-buff though, even if they removed main-only and added 100% effectiveness, FiBo would still have Elemental, since 132% and 25% crit is better than 135% and no crit, despite also doing 135%*110% and 25% crit occasionally.

That's such a tiny niche though. If you'll be playing mainclass Bo there won't be any real reason at all to go with Elemental Stance because Crits on Bo are weak.

Zorak000
Aug 6, 2018, 04:16 PM
As it stands, the only things that are really must-have from the Conq. Crest shop are Lavis Cannon, Rykros Staff, and maybe Jupiter Tullus. Everything else is either a marginal upgrade from existing, easily obtainable series or just outright worse than said series. EPD is also in dire straits because of the upcoming October update, which, depending on SEGA's whims, may become far less useful in the near future.
EPD will still be a massive chunk of T-atk even afterward; and it still might be easier for an aspiring force to get than a Luminare or Austere NT rod. Also from what I've seen, you forgot Kazami on that list. Even when it eventually isn't good anymore; alongside the manual release ring, it'll still be used to activate Katana Gear before the quest start teleporter goes off, which is a big thing for bravers to be able to do.

but yeah about the only thing that might be imporant from the the ep5 14*s so far might be demonia for hero, dual bird for counter-BNS PP refund shenanigans, maybe the dual blade from loser for Kestral Rampage 0 spam when blade throw is on cooldown, and when it's up you can afford to whiff a few blades since you are regenerating gear passively too

ArcaneTechs
Aug 6, 2018, 05:08 PM
but yeah about the only thing that might be imporant from the the ep5 14*s so far might be demonia for hero, dual bird for counter-BNS PP refund shenanigans, maybe the dual blade from loser for Kestral Rampage 0 spam when blade throw is on cooldown, and when it's up you can afford to whiff a few blades since you are regenerating gear passively too

Demonia is already out powered by other weapons, its Gear build is the only thing that it has going for it and even then, whats the point of the gear build if you're forced to way on the CD? it's already easy to build a full gear without Demonia's double rate up booost and still be waiting on the CD for HT to come off

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 6, 2018, 06:46 PM
Demonia is already out powered by other weapons, its Gear build is the only thing that it has going for it and even then, whats the point of the gear build if you're forced to way on the CD? it's already easy to build a full gear without Demonia's double rate up booost and still be waiting on the CD for HT to come off

Demonia doubles the rate of hero boost build. Not hero time.

Instead of getting 1% per second up to 60%, you get 2% per second up to 60%.

If you expect to get hit/have ~1k HP, demonia helps sustain your damage alot better.

ArcaneTechs
Aug 6, 2018, 07:52 PM
Demonia doubles the rate of hero boost build. Not hero time.

Instead of getting 1% per second up to 60%, you get 2% per second up to 60%.

If you expect to get hit/have ~1k HP, demonia helps sustain your damage alot better.

theres still gear that out dps's it, my bad on the pot, confused it for some reason

also not looking forward to seeing +30 demonias

Zorak000
Aug 6, 2018, 09:52 PM
ah yeah I thought there was a mystery boost to hero boost on top of the build rate boost, my bad; still it's a crest target for a sword that isnt akatsuki. but dual bird and motov would be lock-ins for sure

anyway the crest exchange reminded me that element % is way more important than the final 5 grinds of a weapon, with tech weapons being a minor exception, so at worst its splitting hairs if it's +30 or +35; I only started to bother with +35ing stuff once SAFs became A Thing, and they started making files easy enough to complete 6 times without busting your butt or burning sg on resets. before that +32 60% seemed good enough tbh

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 7, 2018, 03:30 AM
theres still gear that out dps's it, my bad on the pot, confused it for some reason

also not looking forward to seeing +30 demonias

I may have something close to OCD when it comes to these things, but +30 hardly breaks a weapon. It will likely still have 60 ele.

ArcaneTechs
Aug 7, 2018, 05:05 AM
I may have something close to OCD when it comes to these things, but +30 hardly breaks a weapon. It will likely still have 60 ele.
dont worry, they wont affix it just like how they wont swap off the title 12* junk units you get from clearing the 4man XQ :wacko:

Saffran
Aug 7, 2018, 06:02 AM
Affixing still requires a lot out of a player.
I've been trying to get what I need for the dual bird affix from way back when and in the last 2 months I haven't been able to land another Qliphad (I mean, I have several but none can go to 35) and prices for Grace Shot have gone up so I haven't been able to afford one either.
And weapons are easy. You want a unit with Astral and Ether, you better be loaded. Or be nolifing PSO2es I guess.
And that damn Yamato factor needs to be available at all times.

GHNeko
Aug 7, 2018, 07:45 AM
yamato factor is so cancerous. the rates for everything regarding ether factor are already ass.

Jene-chan
Aug 7, 2018, 07:51 AM
It's not like you need Astral/Ether. There are plenty of strong and cost-effective 5s/6s affixes you can do for weapons/units.

Saffran
Aug 7, 2018, 09:25 AM
Litterally every single strong player I check out has that combo. It's almost offensive.
I've been blessed with 5 slots apprentice units lately so I might push for that during the next bonus week...

Jene-chan
Aug 7, 2018, 09:39 AM
You don't need Astral/Ether units/weapons to do relevant damage. Even something like Ares/Stat4/Stam4/OmegaRev/Mut2 on all your units gives you a good stat spread and more survivability. I'm not an affixing master but there is probably something more cost-effective than that without using any Booster items. Even with a reasonable amount of money you can make good 6s units and you don't NEED Grace -- Elegant or even Noble is fine in most cases. Assuming you need the craziest, most expensive gear to break even contribution-wise is a fallacy.

XrosBlader821
Aug 7, 2018, 09:56 AM
Litterally every single strong player I check out has that combo. It's almost offensive.
I've been blessed with 5 slots apprentice units lately so I might push for that during the next bonus week...

Yes I too saw the man, the one and only, the legend, who has sick 6s units With Astral Soul, Ether Factor and Returner V.

No reasonable human being will require you to have such ridiculous units. 40 Atk is like 1~1.5% of your total power nowadays (Even less on certain weapons). Most of the time it's not worth going for that sick extra 10~20 atk and 1~2 pp.

Zorak000
Aug 7, 2018, 11:36 AM
yeah honestly the stock abilities on the Sub/Stellar Walls you get from reaching 75 are not terrible at all; like they might not be as good as a bode, izane, quilphad or mix of these units, but they'll help people die a bit less, unless they still need to get better at the game; but even a full izane set with astral/ether/returner/ability III/all resist III / striking resist IV/ Stamina IV/Grace Stamina wont stop a bad player from getting turned into paste.

they're leagues better than the 2017 units being made out of literal tissue paper anyway

the rate the game catapults people into extra hard means they probably will still have trouble wrapping their heads around affixing for a while; it took me quiet a bit after the first XH update (that finally opened affixing for more than just 2 fodder items haha) to get over how bad it used to be and get things done anyway.

for now the expert mode reqs are fine anyway; the key part of the Terran/Phanatical phantoms requirement is that either you are skilled enough to clear phanatical phantoms, have a good enough squad for beating terran phantoms together, or resourceful enough to get carried through terran phantoms; which means you should know people willing to help you stand up on your own feet eventually, it's just that you needed to escape non-expert hell in order help facilitate that faster. Getting the sub stellar walls for reaching level 75 so you can meet that req is more of a "are you even paying attention to what's going on" kinda check, which, people do still fail, which is why expert mode still exists. The +35 13* weapon part is the only thing that can get weird if somebody is just catching back up again at the wrong time; like right now they won't be able to earn enough badges to +35 a homura weapon unless they are really busting their butt today until maintenance, and side xie the badges just before they 630 when maint starts, or get lucky with a drop. likewise when a set of easy to complete without an EQ collection files are about to expire is where I normally see this kind of thing happen, or easy files with an EQ but there aren't enough runs of the EQ left on the schedule to do it even with resets

Jene-chan
Aug 7, 2018, 12:08 PM
The problem is multi-faceted.

Expert requirements don't really mesh well with the horizontal progression style of this game. I keep coming back to this but where was that guy who, when they announced the original Expert requirements, completed them all with no weapons equipped (including Solo EX). So he's an Expert. All he would need to do now is get carried through the Party version of the new EX and he's still an Expert. The other issue too is that Expert makes no checks on your current gear. We've seen this with Mother/Deus EQ where a lot of people bring out their severely under-geared Hunter subs for leveling because it gives good EXP and they end up dying a ton.

The issue is, you're in no danger of failing 90% of the content even with people who either don't have good gear or don't know how to play their class, it just takes significantly longer. Yes, it's frustrating, but the only times it really matters honestly are things like Dragon rematch solely because of the death limit. Honestly, I've stopped doing Dragon RM with randos because there was a streak for me after the 85 cap came out where I was always getting players who were leveling Subs and racking up the maximum death count. Sometimes we'd even have deaths during the mobbing section which is profoundly confusing. This is purely anecdotal to me but it's my observation nonetheless.

The simple solution to this is just group up more often with people you trust and do content with them -- that at least guarantees some level of competency in any given MPA. From my experience, it's generally the top 4-6 players in any given boss MPA that are actually moving the fight along anyway.

The other issue re: new players is that there are so many legacy systems in PSO2 and they even have made tutorials for things like affixing (they have) but it's still a bore to learn. People aren't generally aware that certain affixes boost other affixes, or even how to maximize your up-slot chances. This is compounded by the sheer amount of affixes available which can be overwhelming for someone who isn't familiar with the system or wants to invest time learning how it works. For Weapons, S-Abilities were supposed to make this a bit easier and it has in a sense, but now we're running into the saturation point where there are so many S-Abilities that it's hard to keep track of them and some of the more desirable ones are becoming rarer because the content they drop in is out of cycle.

Zorak000
Aug 7, 2018, 01:54 PM
yeah; I just figured the "get carried" condition is less of a direct skill check and more of a "knows people who can carry them, or knows how to recruit people to carry them", which is a different kind of skill, but one that should technically mean you have connections to people who can help you figure things out. Like somebody could ask/bribe random strangers in the lobby or on a forum to carry them through, but technically that too is a skill that can lead somebody down the road to improvement.

I assume with magatsu they realized failure states for EQs, specifically due to their time-limited nature, are just a bad idea in general. They tried to add some pressure with Rematch Quests but it sounds like Atrum kinda pushed them into doing this rematch trigger drop system they've started with Loser. that way people can prep a group to run it on their own terms, and if they fail then they knew the risks when they used the trigger. and if they don't think they can handle it, they can simply put the trigger up in their shop and make some money off of somebody willing to drop the corn on it. the drop rates on triggers are still the only lame part about it though, like they could maybe do something like have a bi-weekly set of collection files for rematch triggers of the EQs in the current update cycle heh. just kinda throwing an idea out there im not sure how good/bad that would be.

and yeah this game is an absolute mess of abandoned ideas or systems that have no actual documentation outside of their update trailers and update websites

wefwq
Aug 10, 2018, 01:09 AM
I hope Demonia is also on the list. I swear I get everything beside what I wanted...

2 Akatsuki, Gilde Girola, Bran Absolute, Reaver Garola, Spread Needle, Yasminkov 4000FJ, Quella Windea, Eternal Psycho Drive,
3 Lavis Cannon and 2 Rykos Staff.

I also got 6 Guren/Shien, 3 Appress Grudge, 3 Zirenheit and 1 Phobos Elex (double saber).

I even gotten 1 Chronos Time Stone, which is even rarer than Demonia yet I still don't have one.

*start smashing head against the table*

Looks like your wish just got insta-granted.

https://i.imgur.com/1uZwrJm.png

XrosBlader821
Aug 10, 2018, 02:44 AM
Welp, that Kings crest lineup is bloddy awful.

Zephyrion
Aug 10, 2018, 03:31 AM
Welp, that Kings crest lineup is bloddy awful.

Worst part for me is that despite never getting any of the deus or Prentice *14 to drop, and only one for Yamato, Loser and Mother *14 (and not even from their respective EQs), I somehow got 3/4 of Dragon *14 and 2/3 Demonias, so I only miss Dual Bird and Demonia TMG, which I hardly care about anyway. I also got enough conqueror crests to get about every EP4 *14 I actually wanted soo...I guess those crests will rot permanently in storage

SteveCZ
Aug 10, 2018, 04:08 AM
awwwww yissss demonia lineup wooooo. best month everrr. =)

Tymek
Aug 10, 2018, 06:26 AM
The problem is multi-faceted.

Expert requirements don't really mesh well with the horizontal progression style of this game. I keep coming back to this but where was that guy who, when they announced the original Expert requirements, completed them all with no weapons equipped (including Solo EX). So he's an Expert.

Do you happen to remember who it was?

Jene-chan
Aug 10, 2018, 08:31 AM
Do you happen to remember who it was?

Ah, it was a series of tweets that are ancient now but I have some friends who may know where to find them. I'll ask around.

Loveless62
Aug 10, 2018, 10:25 AM
The problem is multi-faceted.

Expert requirements don't really mesh well with the horizontal progression style of this game. I keep coming back to this but where was that guy who, when they announced the original Expert requirements, completed them all with no weapons equipped (including Solo EX). So he's an Expert.


Do you happen to remember who it was?
Not to take away from the accomplishment, but recall that the original expert questing requirements were to complete Heaven and Hell XQ Floors 1-5 (NOT Floors 6-10). That surprised a lot of players here with how weak the requirement was.

And yet at the time, the expert MPAs ended up so much stronger than non-expert MPAs, for a while anyways.

FantasyHeaven
Aug 10, 2018, 10:37 AM
Welp, that Kings crest lineup is bloddy awful.
Not a single interesting weapon there. Why in the fuck they're locking entire playstyles behind a 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001% drop and then putting boring trash like this in the shop I don't understand.
They expect us to play the next half a year for this.

Jene-chan
Aug 10, 2018, 11:02 AM
Not a single interesting weapon there. Why in the fuck they're locking entire playstyles behind a 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001% drop and then putting boring trash like this in the shop I don't understand.
They expect us to play the next half a year for this.

To be fair, Partisan and Knuckles are very good but those are two weapon types that you don't see played that often. I only started playing Knux Fi when I got Gear Experience and honestly, I don't think I'd want to continue playing it without having the counter paired with the Sway action on GE. Similarly, I got the Partisan a few weeks ago and I'm going to affix it and learn how to play Partisan soon because the weapon is actually interesting.

For people playing Hero, having Demonia available outside of pure RNG is good but it took a long time to get to this point and for minmaxers, having a +30 Demonia actually hurts quite a bit there.

I also do agree, I wish they'd make some of these abilities, which are tied to weapons which have playstyle altering changes, integrated into the class instead of being locked behind a weapon which eventually will become obsoleted. Good example of this would be Lavis - it changes the way Te plays in a number of ways and going back to Wands that don't have hitstop removal or reduction feels terrible. Their proposed changes to Elemental Conversion re: EPD are actually an example of them moving the playstyle changes into the tree which is good, but otherwise, they seem to be adding more weapons that fit this mold instead of less of them.

Also, my continued amusement at them "worrying about all classes starting to feel the same and having the same abilities" but now all classes are getting First Blood and Double Jump. Have they mentioned if Hero's First Blood will be removed or if it will remain? Similarly, will Hero maintain Next Jump/One More Jump and will Jet Boots get an additional jump (so three now as opposed to two)?

XrosBlader821
Aug 10, 2018, 11:44 AM
Dunno but they are going to remove snatch step once the Skill ring becomes a Skill Tree ability and return the 1 SP. Maybe Hero will have 2 SP more to work with in the future but it wouldn't surprised me if they still had to spend SP like how Rangers and Gunners still have to spend SP on Roll Shoot despite Step Attack being a default skill for ages.

SteveCZ
Aug 10, 2018, 11:52 AM
Also, my continued amusement at them "worrying about all classes starting to feel the same and having the same abilities" but now all classes are getting First Blood and Double Jump. Have they mentioned if Hero's First Blood will be removed or if it will remain? Similarly, will Hero maintain Next Jump/One More Jump and will Jet Boots get an additional jump (so three now as opposed to two)?

My opinion stands still. Sega wanting to implement these doesn't mean they are right, just like the mistake they do on Hero, by saying there's nothing wrong with it that end up throwing big balances to other classes, twice. But it's official so I respect the move, nothing more to argue about.

As for JB getting triple jump, no idea (I personally don't think so). But Hero will remain the same I believe.

Azure Falcon
Aug 10, 2018, 12:25 PM
Lol, so they're not even adding the Loser 14*s to the King's Crest lineup. I should have seen it coming, only those with good luck are permitted to get hold of any weapons that change up class playstyles, the rest of us plebs have to wait a year until the gear is outclassed before we're allowed to have a reasonable chance of grinding towards it. Wouldn't want to go crazy and let everyone have some fun, would we?

Well, on the bright side I guess I can just start ignoring every EQ that isn't Incarnation of Knowledge.

Terrence
Aug 10, 2018, 12:41 PM
https://i.imgur.com/1uZwrJm.png
I was a fool to think they would add the EPO.
It would have been a bad idea indeed but my
lack of luck made me want that to happen.....

XrosBlader821
Aug 10, 2018, 12:43 PM
I was a fool to think they would add the EPO.
It would have been a bad idea indeed but my
lack of luck made me want that to happen.....

You mean everyones lack of luck. That Sword is by far the rarest 14* yet.

Terrence
Aug 10, 2018, 12:50 PM
You got a point.
But in my case, that doesn't make any difference since I have not dropped a single 14☆ since they have been implemented. :-?

Zorak000
Aug 11, 2018, 11:40 AM
anyway, I kinda remembered something about the whole expert req thing I wanted to share.

the best they can really do with something like that is make a PSO2 Literacy Test, which is about what they got for it now. As power creeps onward they'll have to make more new Extreme Quests to serve that part of the function, of either being able to be skilled enough to solo it, having a good group of friends to tackle it, or simply being "good" enough to know you need help with this; which means you will continue to seek improvement one way or another. Calling it "expert" instead of "literate" is more of an issue of perception; it makes somebody feel better about earning it, and feel better if they can't quite do it yet. Not everybody responds well to feeling insulted, it turns out!

Everybody complaining about incompetent people in their MPAs still just kinda has the same sound as somebody complaining about how bad it is to play Solo Queue in Overwatch/Leage/other game that focuses on a team-based game mode. You can't stop random people from finding new ways to be bad or lazy out in the wilds of Solo Queue; Life finds a way.

The only proven solution to this situation is finding a private group to run with. This is why teams/clans/guilds exist in these kinds of games tbqh.

Kondibon
Aug 11, 2018, 12:00 PM
The only proven solution to this situation is finding a private group to run with. This is why teams/clans/guilds exist in these kinds of games tbqh.

Well by extension the problem is with the EQ system, since I usually see people complaining about bad pugs in EQs. I don't think I've EVER seen someone complain about bad pugs in a trigger quest, or endless quest because why the fuck would you pug those if you know you want a good run? EQs require you to do them on SEGA's schedule, which means not everyone who wants to do it might be available. You also have the problem of some EQs being more rewarding if you can get in a lot of runs before they end, which means people want to rush. They kinda got around that by just limiting how many times per EQ you can run it, but some people still want to multiship.

Speaking of multi shipping, pro tip: If you want to get carried super hard then join a single run EQ in like the last 3-5 minutes before it ends to get all the multi-shipping power players. :whacko:

EDIT: I'd also argue that the point of "expert requirements" should be proving you can pull your own weight, which getting carried doesn't do, even if it does mean you know people. You aren't always going to have people. It's the same issue with facerolling it on a class like Su. That won't stop you from going Fi/Fo and using an extended red katana in XH. The game needs more easily quantifiable levels of power in the gear progression, and more parity between multipliers and damage types between classes, because this kind of stuff is the whole reason level and i-level requirements exist in games, but the power gap between two players can be insane even if the only difference is their skill trees.

Jene-chan
Aug 11, 2018, 12:37 PM
Well by extension the problem is with the EQ system, since I usually see people complaining about bad pugs in EQs. I don't think I've EVER seen someone complain about bad pugs in a trigger quest, or endless quest because why the fuck would you pug those if you know you want a good run?

Honestly Dragon Rematch has been terrible lately with people running it for leveling and failure becoming way more common but with Omega Loser/Omega Apprentice EQ, they seem to be shying away from the higher difficulty rematch model and just doing triggers that drop rarely. The triggers have no death limit so in reality as long as you can find people that are even remotely decent, you should be able to clear it even if you open it up to randos. That much being said, I stopped doing Dragon RM with randos just cuz I'm tired of failing of no fault of my own when I'm carrying the MPA damage-wise with no deaths and somehow a Hunter racks up three deaths.


EDIT: I'd also argue that the point of "expert requirements" should be proving you can pull your own weight, which getting carried doesn't do, even if it does mean you know people. You aren't always going to have people. It's the same issue with facerolling it on a class like Su. That won't stop you from going Fi/Fo and using an extended red katana in XH. The game needs more easily quantifiable levels of power in the gear progression, and more parity between multipliers and damage types between classes, because this kind of stuff is the whole reason level and i-level requirements exist in games, but the power gap between two players can be insane even if the only difference is their skill trees.

The reason why item level works in games like FF14 and similar MMOs is that the games are designed around vertical progression. PSO2 is still an extremely horizontal game so assigning item levels to gear would be arbitrary since even weapons like Austere, while extremely old and powercrept, can still do relevant damage whereas in FF14, if you're rocking a LV60 iLv250 weapon versus a boss intended to be fought with LV70 gear of at least iLv350, you will do no damage and you will die to everything due to the way stats scale exponentially. PSO2 just isn't suited for requirements of that kind which is why the "Expert" requirement was derided originally by both the Japanese and Western fanbase when it came out.

Meteor Weapon
Aug 11, 2018, 12:41 PM
You mean everyones lack of luck. That Sword is by far the rarest 14* yet.

Simply because no one bothered to wait Elder to draw his sword again and just nuke rush at him. Sure the rates are abysmal but breaking his sword to add it into his drop pool would've been better than nothing.

ArcaneTechs
Aug 11, 2018, 01:00 PM
Simply because no one bothered to wait Elder to draw his sword again and just nuke rush at him. Sure the rates are abysmal but breaking his sword to add it into his drop pool would've been better than nothing.
sega confirmed a long time ago you dont need to break Omega Hunar's sword for it to be added to the loot pool

Kondibon
Aug 11, 2018, 01:21 PM
The reason why item level works in games like FF14 and similar MMOs is that the games are designed around vertical progression. PSO2 is still an extremely horizontal game so assigning item levels to gear would be arbitrary since even weapons like Austere, while extremely old and powercrept, can still do relevant damage whereas in FF14, if you're rocking a LV60 iLv250 weapon versus a boss intended to be fought with LV70 gear of at least iLv350, you will do no damage and you will die to everything due to the way stats scale exponentially. PSO2 just isn't suited for requirements of that kind which is why the "Expert" requirement was derided originally by both the Japanese and Western fanbase when it came out.Except, other than the latent there's no reason weapons of the same category and rarity need to vary as much as they do other than power creep. The baseline need to be more normalized. I know the game has a lot of horizontal progression, but the gap between the high and low ends is too big, and there's too many variables. Horizontal progression is fine, but it needs less variables, or the variables need smaller ranges. Especially when things like acquiring certain equipment is basically random, and affixing scares people away.

And I wasn't really saying PSO2 needs i-levels, rather using them as an example of having a hard line drawn in the sand of "you need at least this much". If something below that line is still better than stuff above it then that's arguably a problem.

Jene-chan
Aug 11, 2018, 01:30 PM
btw a friend found the old tweet, bless his soul.

https://twitter.com/Otubakurame/status/785544482011787264

He was using Farhens but basically he was able to do Expert without any weapons totally on his own.

Dark Mits
Aug 11, 2018, 04:46 PM
Well by extension the problem is with the EQ system, since I usually see people complaining about bad pugs in EQs.We should first determine what those who complain about bad pugs actually mean when they say "bad". Because I've seen people call a run "bad" that was somewhat slower than what they're used for, effectively wasting more seconds on their "precious" Triboost / RDR tickets. Also, I encountered someone wishing cancer to the whole mpa because of bad splitting in Beach Wars that had uneven sides. This was in non-expert.

I basically agree with Kondibon's argument that the game has too many variables and with too large effects. In fact, maybe Sega should copy their A-, B-, C- etc. Frame system from PSO2es and consolidate all effects into a few of those, so that not everything becomes multiplicative with each other and becomes a balancing nightmare. Also there is a lot of fluff in skill trees that serve no purpose other than have somewhere to put 99 points in. There is no need for X-atk 1, X-atk 2 and X-atk 3. Just let X-atk 1 go all the way up to /30. No need for <Element Mastery> 1 and 2. Just let 1 go up to 15. Rare <class> mastery skills also seem to exist to penalize using off-class weapons, even though I am not aware of many 13s and 14s which can do that, so it's another skill that could be deleted entirely, and give players baseline 10% damage to cover up the loss, maybe as a title to accompany those titles that give 10% extra damage for registering weapons in our library.

Regarding Expert mode, maybe Sega should require us to complete them using some stock characters and not our own. Just like the tutorials and battle arena are done. That way Expert mode cannot be "cheesed" by acquiring better gear or more stats.

Anduril
Aug 11, 2018, 05:18 PM
Regarding Expert mode, maybe Sega should require us to complete them using some stock characters and not our own. Just like the tutorials and battle arena are done. That way Expert mode cannot be "cheesed" by acquiring better gear or more stats.

I like this idea, and make it something like needing to complete stages using each different class (maybe even with no subclass), that way it shows you have an understanding of the game as a whole instead of just knowing how to exploit the best aspects of just one or two classes or weapons. Doing this could also lead to some improvement feedback for some of the less used classes.


Rare <class> mastery skills also seem to exist to penalize using off-class weapons, even though I am not aware of many 13s and 14s which can do that, so it's another skill that could be deleted entirely, and give players baseline 10% damage to cover up the loss, maybe as a title to accompany those titles that give 10% extra damage for registering weapons in our library.

They already have changed the Class Mastery skill to just be a 10% damage bonus for using any 10*+ or crafted weapon (with the exception of Tacts). The 10% bonus for using on-class weapons is the one from the Titles for collecting weapons.

XrosBlader821
Aug 11, 2018, 05:51 PM
I basically agree with Kondibon's argument that the game has too many variables and with too large effects. In fact, maybe Sega should copy their A-, B-, C- etc. Frame system from PSO2es and consolidate all effects into a few of those, so that not everything becomes multiplicative with each other and becomes a balancing nightmare. Also there is a lot of fluff in skill trees that serve no purpose other than have somewhere to put 99 points in. There is no need for X-atk 1, X-atk 2 and X-atk 3. Just let X-atk 1 go all the way up to /30. No need for <Element Mastery> 1 and 2. Just let 1 go up to 15. Rare <class> mastery skills also seem to exist to penalize using off-class weapons, even though I am not aware of many 13s and 14s which can do that, so it's another skill that could be deleted entirely, and give players baseline 10% damage to cover up the loss, maybe as a title to accompany those titles that give 10% extra damage for registering weapons in our library.

I don't think Rare mastery only applies to mainclass weapon but I agree that the Skill trees have to much clutte. It'll only get worse as time moves on. Stuff like War Attract and Photon Flare Rod SC should be located below the respective skills they're improving but instead the entire Tree is moved down a level and the new skills are plastered on top of it. So Sega probably won't change a thing until it becomes too obnoxious even for the most tolerant players.

Saffran
Aug 13, 2018, 07:00 AM
sega confirmed a long time ago you dont need to break Omega Hunar's sword for it to be added to the loot pool

I should be thankful for that, but it's frustrating to see such nonsense. Breaking the sword should be some obvious step helping you to get it. Upping the drop % maybe, or something really significant. Ah, well.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 08:50 AM
Regarding Expert mode, maybe Sega should require us to complete them using some stock characters and not our own. Just like the tutorials and battle arena are done. That way Expert mode cannot be "cheesed" by acquiring better gear or more stats.That won't really solve the problem. In fact it might make it worse because then you wouldn't even know how to use your own character properly. People usually cheese the XQs by getting carried or abusing mechanics, not just stats. And it also wouldn't stop people from joining EQs with outright bad class combos.

If anything they need to have the expert requirements be per class combo, but that's a lot of titles, some class combos aren't suited to the XQ, and it doesn't stop people from being carried.

Zorak000
Aug 13, 2018, 11:03 AM
The time-sensitive nature of EQs compounding with how the Block system ties lobbies and instances together, limiting the people you can be matched with right as an EQ begins, is responsible for like 80% of this game's problems; and so far all they have done to address this is dance around the subject

Magatsu really helped bring these issues to light:
Magatsu impossible to clear without a ranger to apply weak bullet? There's no way to make sure there will in fact be one person that can use Weak Bullet in the MPA? clearly the answer is "nerf magatsu's HP and the effectiveness of Weak Bullet so it is no longer a requirement", as they cannot reserve a spot in the MPA for a WB user to join, as the EQ is on a timer and everybody wants to get as many clears of the quest done before it becomes unavailable, and it's entirely possible that there are no rangers in the block at all, or the ones that are could just be AFK, taking up block space.

They really need to split lobby instances from quest instances, and make quests and lobbies run on seperate machines. this block system only worked in PSO1 and PSU because quest instances were single-party only, which was a much more controllable environment. as well as that those games didn't have extremely time-sensitive content like EQs.

EQ triggers would have been one way to step in the right direction, but most of them costing SG just feels kinda scummy to me. The free/main match system from Buster Quests would have also been amazing for this, if they gave the "EQ version" a quest select for main match mode, and free match would toss you into some random person's quest and you still get a reward to exchange for something later, which is kinda what games like XIV do already, but due to the unpopularity of Buster Quests, I fear that this system will be completely forgotten after ep5 ends.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 11:22 AM
The time-sensitive nature of EQs compounding with how the Block system ties lobbies and instances together, limiting the people you can be matched with right as an EQ begins, is responsible for like 80% of this game's problems; and so far all they have done to address this is dance around the subject

Magatsu really helped bring these issues to light:
Magatsu impossible to clear without a ranger to apply weak bullet? There's no way to make sure there will in fact be one person that can use Weak Bullet in the MPA? clearly the answer is "nerf magatsu's HP and the effectiveness of Weak Bullet so it is no longer a requirement", as they cannot reserve a spot in the MPA for a WB user to join, as the EQ is on a timer and everybody wants to get as many clears of the quest done before it becomes unavailable, and it's entirely possible that there are no rangers in the block at all, or the ones that are could just be AFK, taking up block space.

They really need to split lobby instances from quest instances, and make quests and lobbies run on seperate machines. this block system only worked in PSO1 and PSU because quest instances were single-party only, which was a much more controllable environment. as well as that those games didn't have extremely time-sensitive content like EQs.

EQ triggers would have been one way to step in the right direction, but most of them costing SG just feels kinda scummy to me. The free/main match system from Buster Quests would have also been amazing for this, if they gave the "EQ version" a quest select for main match mode, and free match would toss you into some random person's quest and you still get a reward to exchange for something later, which is kinda what games like XIV do already, but due to the unpopularity of Buster Quests, I fear that this system will be completely forgotten after ep5 ends.I'm really not sure what you're trying to say about the blocks. It sounds like you're just describing the things they already have in place for joining parties on other blocks and multiblock matching. If anything the UI needs to make things more visible and organized, but the infrastructure is already there.

XrosBlader821
Aug 13, 2018, 11:31 AM
I'm really not sure what you're trying to say about the blocks. It sounds like you're just describing the things they already have in place for joining parties on other blocks and multiblock matching. If anything the UI needs to make things more visible and organized, but the infrastructure is already there.

That's not what he's saying tho. He's saying that the Quests themselves shouldn't be tied to blocks. For example if i'm in Block 20 and enter the quest I'll get matched with people from B10 and B11 even though these blocks are filled to the brim, which is currently not possible. Even if you go run BQ, which multi-match exclusive, you can open up the Team tab and see in which block you currently are in. The system Zorak suggested would have people start the quest from whatever block they like, be matched with everyone who selected the quest on the same difficulty (not just the same block or what ever Block multi-matching decided for you) and return to the block you started the quest from after you're done. Sega said they'd like to turn Multiblock matching into what Zorak described but i'd take a long time (obviously) since implementing a feature like that requires a lot of changes on Sega's backend. It wouldn't surprise me if a feature like that would be in place from the beginning for whatever comes after PSO2.

Dark Mits
Aug 13, 2018, 11:34 AM
Magatsu really helped bring these issues to light:
Magatsu impossible to clear without a ranger to apply weak bullet? There's no way to make sure there will in fact be one person that can use Weak Bullet in the MPA? clearly the answer is "nerf magatsu's HP and the effectiveness of Weak Bullet so it is no longer a requirement", as they cannot reserve a spot in the MPA for a WB user to join, as the EQ is on a timer and everybody wants to get as many clears of the quest done before it becomes unavailable, and it's entirely possible that there are no rangers in the block at all, or the ones that are could just be AFK, taking up block space.This was more of an issue with WB than with the EQ system however. If having one class is the absolute only factor in determining whether a run takes 5mins or 20mins regardless of the skills of players in the group, then that means that the utility of that class needs to be reevaluated in comparison to the rest.

The 2nd issue is allowing multiple runs per session. It is the reason why people refuse to even ask others if they finished picking up their rewards, but outright restart the run just to save 10 seconds. This has led to the secondary issue of players distrusting others and refusing to join someone else's group despite the extra Triboost incentive. It is also the reason why Sega is reluctant to make EQs that require more than 10mins for Expert groups. I guess everyone here has listened to others complain that The Undeground Nightmare is badly designed because you have to wait for the tank and because it doesn't go to the boss immediately.

The 3rd issue is the player mentality of "If I don't reach the theoretical max number of runs, then the whole effort was a critical failure". This is not something that Sega is responsible for or even able to fix; it's just the player mentality that permeates online gaming in 2010s. But Sega could reduce the maximum number of runs to 1 or 2 for every EQ, and adjust duration and rewards to their desired numbers. Imagine if a single Magatsu run dropped 100 excube-able items. Players wouldn't need to act so selfishly in such case.


They really need to split lobby instances from quest instances, and make quests and lobbies run on seperate machines. this block system only worked in PSO1 and PSU because quest instances were single-party only, which was a much more controllable environment. as well as that those games didn't have extremely time-sensitive content like EQs.They just needed to allow 12man groups, and not limit it to 4man. This whole situation of requiring 3 groups and passwords to start a closed run is a very inelegant solution to a problem that didn't exist but Sega created themselves.

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 11:41 AM
The game was originally designed around the following tenents:

Emergency Quests - Time-limited content with higher potential for rewards but not available at all times.
Free Fields - Free content available at any time but has proportionately lower drop rates to account for the fact that it can be played at any time.
Block System - Solution to both server/instance congestion but also served as a way to give each black (or "channel" in this context) a purpose, such as a Time Attack block or an Extra Hard block.

Over time, people started to realize that Free Fields weren't really engaging at all and doing things like trying for Quartz Dragon katana or other things that could be done in a Free Field were not worth the effort. I believe it was around Episode 2 that everyone joked about PSO2 being a Time Attack/Emergency Quest simulator (e.g. log on, do your daily Time Attack COs, do an EQ or two then stop playing because there's nothing else to do). Ever since then, they've been trying a lot of different things to give incentive to players to play outside of only EQs with some success, but the success lately is only temporary because they can't keep content relevant outside of when it's released.

There are too many recent examples - Ultimate Quest, Challenge Mode, Riding Quest, Extreme Quest, Buster Quest and maybe even Endless Quest depending on what other content comes into the game soon and if they will continue to add to Endless Quest. Honestly it's pretty telling that their big announcements about EP5 were no Free Fields and them supporting Buster Quest as the new mode to do and they've abandoned both of those goals by adding Free Forest and essentially abandoning Buster Quest as a mode outside of small updates. This may be due to them course correcting due to the backlash over EP5 but regardless they had to walk back most of what they set out to do.

I know it's nothing new to be pessimistic about the PSO2 devs these days, but I honestly don't really feel they learned the lesson from their recent failures but only time will tell on that.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 11:48 AM
That's not what he's saying tho. He's saying that the Quests themselves shouldn't be tied to blocks. For example if i'm in Block 20 and enter the quest I'll get matched with people from B10 and B11 even though these blocks are filled to the brim, which is currently not possible. Even if you go run BQ, which multi-match exclusive, you can open up the Team tab and see in which block you currently are in. The system Zorak suggested would have people start the quest from whatever block they like, be matched with everyone who selected the quest on the same difficulty (not just the same block or what ever Block multi-matching decided for you) and return to the block you started the quest from after you're done. Sega said they'd like to turn Multiblock matching into what Zorak described but i'd take a long time (obviously) since implementing a feature like that requires a lot of changes on Sega's backend. It wouldn't surprise me if a feature like that would be in place from the beginning for whatever comes after PSO2.Yeah, but I'm saying the system is already there and works, unless I just don't know how multi-block matching works. I thought everyone who did it was joining a sort of "shared" block, not going to other existing blocks.

Anduril
Aug 13, 2018, 11:53 AM
Yeah, but I'm saying the system is already there and works, unless I just don't know how multi-block matching works. I thought everyone who did it was joining a sort of "shared" block, not going to other existing blocks.

Multi-block does just send you to an existing block with open space in it; you can see that when you open up the Team menu and see your current block.

Moffen
Aug 13, 2018, 11:55 AM
Just the ability to join in already ongoing quests (Like a beach wars 2018 thats 11/12 past teleporter) would be super welcome,or adding a queueing option for full quests so you'll be alerted and be able to immediately join them if theres a free space without having to constantly refresh the quest counter.
Also let me invite friends into my party past teleporter in more quests,it annoys me when the quest starts and i realise theres afriend i know without a party that i would have loved to have join me, rather difficult to do with the rush rush rush mentality of 80% of EQs.

On another note im happy about the first arts JA,fixes a lot of stuff for ra that never had the option to use Step JA. I'd like to see dive roll shoot become innate already though, every melee class has step attack learned right from the get go,even in PvP and its unfair that ranged users STILL need to slap 1sp into it.

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 12:07 PM
A lot of people complaining about the "gotta go fast" nature of a lot of players but just a reminder that anything that is time-limited encourages people to want to optimize their time spent in a run. PSO2 itself works very well with time attack and it's why there is sizable culture around time attack in all forms of content. Even the devs acknowledge that time attack is one of the most common ways people play the game now.

re: First Blood for every class, I still don't like that they're making every class less unique but they've determined that every class shouldn't be without that and Double Jump so I guess it's just something to get used to now. I do agree, though, Dive Roll Shoots needs to be given for free for Ranger and Gunner, not sure why we still have to waste a point on it. Also re: Double Jump, I'm gonna play around with it when we get it but even despite it not having invul like Jumping Dodge, I may just remove my Jumping Dodge ring from my Gu units and toss something else in. I guess we'll see how it goes.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 12:23 PM
A lot of people complaining about the "gotta go fast" nature of a lot of players but just a reminder that anything that is time-limited encourages people to want to optimize their time spent in a run. PSO2 itself works very well with time attack and it's why there is sizable culture around time attack in all forms of content. Even the devs acknowledge that time attack is one of the most common ways people play the game now.There's nothing wrong with people wanting to do stuff fast, the problem is putting people of wildly varying power and skill levels in a bucket and telling them they only have 30 minutes to do as much as possible. It's why I said before, you only really see people complain about pugs in EQs.



re: First Blood for every class, I still don't like that they're making every class less unique but they've determined that every class shouldn't be without that and Double Jump so I guess it's just something to get used to now. I do agree, though, Dive Roll Shoots needs to be given for free for Ranger and Gunner, not sure why we still have to waste a point on it. Also re: Double Jump, I'm gonna play around with it when we get it but even despite it not having invul like Jumping Dodge, I may just remove my Jumping Dodge ring from my Gu units and toss something else in. I guess we'll see how it goes.
That's something they addressed, so, while agree that making the classes TOO similar might be a problem, the baseline for the game seems to be something they wanted to change with episode 5 anyway, so adding new baseline mechanics is fine to me as long as the fundamental playstyles and flows of each class have different flavors and focus.

Moffen
Aug 13, 2018, 12:24 PM
Also re: Double Jump, I'm gonna play around with it when we get it but even despite it not having invul like Jumping Dodge, I may just remove my Jumping Dodge ring from my Gu units and toss something else in. I guess we'll see how it goes.

Well i did testing ages ago when jump dodge released on Bo,you can double jump off a jump dodge jump but you cant double jump then jump dodge. Good way to get triple your usual height so im keeping it,especially for Ra.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jump dodge with double jump in magatsu is pretty funny.

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 12:28 PM
Well i did testing ages ago when jump dodge released on Bo,you can double jump off a jump dodge jump but you cant double jump then jump dodge. Good way to get triple your usual height so im keeping it,especially for Ra.

Yeah, I figured that was the case. After thinking about it a bit more, I'll probably keep Jumping Dodge on since it's super useful and DJ + Double Jump could be useful in some situations. Originally I was thinking about throwing on a Step Jump ring for the few situations where you would tag Chain on something and then have to run to it (Deus core only, honestly) but that application is so niche that it's not worth wasting a DJ ring for that.

That and at some undisclosed time Step Jump will also be added to the tree as long with Air Reversal so I may as well wait. lol

Zorak000
Aug 13, 2018, 01:34 PM
first off, Multiblock Matching as it stands now is only good for people who were either late to an EQ, or drew the short straw when everybody launched into an EQ at once and got stuck in a not-full MPA. While this might not have been the intended only purpose for multiblock; Premium Space and people in lobbies or even other quests throw a stick in the wheel of the system here, as even if there is another available MPA to join, the block could otherwise be full and unjoinable, so both the multiblock searcher AND the not-full MPA get messed up by this.
Sega said they'd like to turn Multiblock matching into what Zorak described but i'd take a long time (obviously) since implementing a feature like that requires a lot of changes on Sega's backend. It wouldn't surprise me if a feature like that would be in place from the beginning for whatever comes after PSO2.tbh you're the first person I've heard say that sega is actually aware of this mess, is there an article that mentions this somewhere I could use as reference for letting other people know?

I assume the block system is also responsible for why we still don't have a proper auto-rejoin system in place when people get 630'd. That would be the only real means to explain this, since even PSCrew-official streams that take place on the live servers still get 630'd from time to time. That has to be extremely embarrassing for them.

anyway I feel like even if they somehow do change lobby and quest instances to work like this, EQs just aren't working out in this game, but they are such a basic part of it that I doubt they'll ever go and fix it; simply because it would take a whole lot of effort to do so by this point. when the player survey has "more emergency quests" as the top requested content, I feel like they are moreso saying that "EQs are the only interesting/relevant pieces of content in the game". what they oughta do is make every quest as interesting and possibly rewarding as an EQ, and get rid of the EQ system entirely.

that thing I said about making a version of the Buster Quest matching system but with EQs instead could potentially solve a lot of issues. Somebody could use a main match charge to start up a quest that they want to run, the system would match them up with other people looking to run it, and when there isn't enough people to fill the MPA, it'll draw from a pool of players who have queued up in "free match" mode. then the free match people at the end would get something like buster medals for an exchange shop that could have stuff that would interest somebody who is playing enough to drain their main match stamina for the day; I would suppose stuff like Affix Rate +40%s or weapons/units with abilities on them that are useful for affixing; the buster medal shop already kinda does this, but I feel it doesn't go quite far enough. From there it would be about balancing the pool of available quests and their rewards so you don't get people free-matching that ditch the quest just because it's not the fastest quest to run.

I kinda feel like they really should be trying to move the game to allowing people to play when they want to, instead of being subject to what's on the schedule. Even if you don't want to run beach wars anymore, if you had to rely on an MPA filling up for what you were doing, you usually wind up not being able to play anyway since too many people left for the EQ. In one way, omega loser and apprentice dropping the rematch triggers kind of moves to this idea, if only slightly. But as it stands in general, this is kinda looking like they are approaching this with the mentality a lot of mobages use, of relying on short-duration micro events throughout the day so you almost have to plan your life around them.

Seeing the dislike ratio show up on the teaser video of September's Buster EQ made me realize something. The way PSCrew has been using a "Flavor of the Month" style of leading people around to playing a single quest nonstop (except for EQs) was likely one of many contributing factors to the backlash over Buster Quests. It made me imagine if back when I played Halo Reach, if Bungie had a SWAT playlist up one week, then replaced it with a Grifball playlist, there would be a LOT of angry people taking to the forums I would imagine. While they put up with mining bases when they appeared as EQs, they did not like the idea of them becoming the thing we will be doing constantly for an entire episode. While they have done a decent job trying to provide content for single-parties to run, I think they need a little more variety along the way of content to run with a crowd of random people in any given week.

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 01:52 PM
I will just say, them trying to get away from the Emergency Quest model would be difficult since the entire game is based around that. They would probably have to do a gargantuan re-work of the entire game both content and balance-wise, akin to FF14 1.0 -> 2.0 which I'm sure they don't have the resources for. Honestly, despite all of their recent failings, I'm sure PSO2 continues to be a large earner for SEGA in the greater scheme of things. If the current model is still working, I don't see them going back to adjust PSO2's core design and instead I'm sure they'd rather focus their efforts on designing the next online chapter for this series.

That much being said, I'm very curious to see SEGA's financial report for this year and see how much of a hit, if any at all, all of the backlash from EP5 has caused their bottom line. I'd be willing to be there was some effect but probably not as pronounced as we might assume.

XrosBlader821
Aug 13, 2018, 02:04 PM
tbh you're the first person I've heard say that sega is actually aware of this mess, is there an article that mentions this somewhere I could use as reference for letting other people know?

I may have misunderstood something, because bumped is occasionally vague for no reason, but I believe that was a question that was asked by someone one almost a year ago on Arks Live.

Zorak000
Aug 13, 2018, 02:11 PM
yeah, I just figured that they keep running into problems with EQs and/or that mess with the block space, and only ever fix the symptoms instead of the underlying causes.

like the subclassing system is kind of a mess anymore, there's way too many "wrong" answers, and if hero is any indication, they seem to be fine with hunter or fighter being the best subclass for every class (except force, which has literally half of it's skill tree on Techer's tree, holding them both back really) and just move forward with new classes being unable to subclass at all, so they can be designed in a vacuum

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 02:23 PM
They killed a lot of legit subclassing in EP4 -> EP5. Gunner was totally gutted as a sub -- there's actually 0 reason to use it since Chain Finish is main only and that's literally the gimmick of the class. TeRa was way more useful in EP4 but with the WB changes, it represents as much less significant damage boost for bringing WB and Techer buffs and you're better off just DPSing as a Techer normally. Even GuRa used to be a thing and now it's mostly a joke or a gimmick to show that you can still use it but there's really no reason too.

Most classes have one or two true paths with very little variation right now.

HuFi, HuSu
RaHu
FoTe
FiHu
GuFi, GuHu
TeHu, TeSu, TeBr
BrHu
BoHu
SuFi
Hr

I know there are probably some fringe builds or whatever I missed by those are by far the most common class combos you see. Honestly, I don't mind them focusing on Main class stuff since that means they can really work on fine-tuning each class.

Zephyrion
Aug 13, 2018, 02:24 PM
snip~

As crazy as it sounds I'm actually in favour of keeping the EQ schedule, and I don't think it would need a drastic change.It would be very hard anyway, given how much it takes one or a few piece of content to be run outside of EQs. PSO2 simply can't have a large pool of quest to run at the same time for various reasons (overall low-ish player pool per ship, 12/12 format, no "material/crafting" system that would warrant running things to get resources and use them). What they've been as of late I think should continue and be built upon, as in have a few quests in conjunction of EQs to be run at all times, sprinkled with revival campaigns for older content. More 4/4 quests would also help in that regard. I'd love a rotation boost for mainstay content (like boost one of the UQ per week with the campaign boosts, along with stuff like a BQ campaign that adds older weapon series to its table or something similar) to put some life back into those as well

Buster Quest tanked for a ton of reasons. Not enough variation added, stamina system was too stringent back when it was introduced, free match rewards were absolutely garbage, and you were forced to run the SAME quest just to be allowed to be played again for better rewards (just to mention a few). Ironically, most of those issues were solved as time passed (stamina is now too lenient but I guess lol), so now BQ has to bear the stigma. It's a shame since the new BQ map is gorgeous, seems to have a lot more complexity tied to it and new castle looks awesome.. Well time will tell whether or not BQ will see a resurgence or keep being hated forever

XrosBlader821
Aug 13, 2018, 02:31 PM
Tbh. I'd be in favor of Sega getting rid of the subclass system and start designing every class in a vacuum. It'd probably make some terrible design choices more apparent and Sega would probably finally fix them like for example Te not having Step Advance or Te not having PP Charge Revival, which is essential for competent tech gameplay but force being a terrible subclass since too many multipliers are either mainclass only or bound to elements Te doesn't care about, Forcing Te into a state where the dev team didn't know what to do with the class making it the mess that it is today. Stuff like Trap Search and PP Charge Revival used to be Race Perks.

They kinda realized themselves that the system isn't really working as intended since they've been actively discouraging from making any creative builds by locking 10% damage multipliers behind Mainclass weapons and not releasing as many multiclass weapons as they used to / killing the weapon extension system, which could still work if they updated it, released units with set effects again and made Craft Mastery a Skill Ring instead of being tied to Bo, which is still a very weak subclass.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 02:37 PM
like the subclassing system is kind of a mess anymore, The subclassing system was a mess from the start. I like subclassing in games, and I wouldn't want it to go away in PSO2, but all the sub class synergies just boil down to which gives you the most raw damage and not using the class mechanics together. Or in the cases where it IS about the mechanics and playstyles being combined, you get stuff like x/Gu that gets nerfed from being stupid overpowered to completely useless instead of a middle ground. The rest are situations where a classes have mechanical and playstyle synergy on paper but the classes themselves don't have the multipliers to back up the damage, and the mechanics aren't useful enough to make up for the lost damage (Te/Bo, or the current state of Su/Gu and Su/Br for example). A lot of subs in fact ONLY bring damage despite not having good damage multipliers, Br for example.

This all just feeds back into what I've been saying about a need to normalize things. It's ok if some classes like Fi can do more damage as a sub in optimal situations, but all the classes should have roughly the same amount of baseline damage potential and the choice of sub should be about which class works best in a particular situation or has tools you want rather than which one is just the best in almost every situation. Br and Gu are probably currently the worst off in terms of subclass utility, since even Bo theoretically has the fields.


Te not having PP Charge Revival, which is essential for competent tech gameplay

I actually disagree that this is a bad thing, I don't think any class should be using techs the same way Fo does. I do agree that Fo should be a better subclass option for Te, but I think people overstate how bad Te is as "weaker X with Te buffs". It's supposed to be a trade off, if Te/Fo was as strong as Fo/Te then why would anyone want a Fo at all?

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 02:41 PM
Tbh. I'd be in favor of Sega getting rid of the subclass system and start designing every class in a vacuum. It'd probably make some terrible design choices more apparent and Sega would probably finally fix them like for example Te not having Step Advance or Te not having PP Charge Revival, which is essential for competent tech gameplay but force being a terrible subclass since too many multipliers are either mainclass only or bound to elements Te doesn't care about, Forcing Te into a state where the dev team didn't know what to do with the class making it the mess that it is today. Stuff like Trap Search and PP Charge Revival used to be Race Perks.

Yes, please! Also, I did a quick look over a few of the trees lately and realized how much borderline useless stuff still exists on many of the trees. Guard Stance Poison, Guard Stance Burn, Pretty Good, Jellen/Mirage/Panic/Bind Shot, Aerial Advance, Deadline Automate, and REVERSER FIELD just to name some of the worst offenders. Honestly, it would probably beeasier for them to balance too since they wouldn't have to be concerned about the effects of certain skills when paired with another class' skills.

Zorak000
Aug 13, 2018, 02:58 PM
yeah, that's what I mean for the most part; subclassing would be in a better place if they could properly balance it out. like bouncer would be a really good subclass for fights like Omega/Loser where you're usually breaking something for most of the quest, or 90% of the quest if your main class can reach the jewels around his headdress to break. but at this point Brave Stance is already stronger than Break Stance, before you even get into stuff like TAJA or PP slayer pushing fighter sub beyond. They just don't quite have a grasp of the concept of "opportunity costs" when it comes to balancing skills for subclass use.

XrosBlader821
Aug 13, 2018, 03:11 PM
I actually disagree that this is a bad thing, I don't think any class should be using techs the same way Fo does. I do agree that Fo should be a better subclass option for Te, but I think people overstate how bad Te is as "weaker X with Te buffs". It's supposed to be a trade off, if Te/Fo was as strong as Fo/Te then why would anyone want a Fo at all?

There already is a trade off, it's called Te not having as many Tech multipliers as Fo does. It's Wands having less T-ATK than Rods. Also in a scenario where the subclass system would be gone, both Te and Fo would be masters of different Tech elements.

The way both of the classes are designed atm half of Forces Skill tree is on Te and half of Te's Skill tree see's very little use since Te gameplay basically boils down to Wand bonking / HH and territory Techniques. Even the deliberate Hybrid builds aren't as effective at Tech casting as Fo/Te is. It wouldn't even be that bad if the Wand PA scaled with T-ATK but no. We needed more reasons to go with S-ATK on our affixes, a stat that is useless for Techs.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 03:24 PM
The main reason I don't want to lose the subclass system is because I value build and game-play diversity within the classes, and while it's certainly not great right now, getting rid of subclasses would just get rid of any chance of it ever being a thing again with how the classes are being designed now, so I'd rather focus be put into balancing the classes as subs more, rather than nuking the subclass system entirely.

Zephyrion
Aug 13, 2018, 03:35 PM
There already is a trade off, it's called Te not having as many Tech multipliers as Fo does. It's Wands having less T-ATK than Rods. Also in a scenario where the subclass system would be gone, both Te and Fo would be masters of different Tech elements.

The way both of the classes are designed atm half of Forces Skill tree is on Te and half of Te's Skill tree see's very little use since Te gameplay basically boils down to Wand bonking / HH and territory Techniques. Even the deliberate Hybrid builds aren't as effective at Tech casting as Fo/Te is. It wouldn't even be that bad if the Wand PA scaled with T-ATK but no. We needed more reasons to go with S-ATK on our affixes, a stat that is useless for Techs.

That's also understating how stupidly strong TE utility is, which also comes with the issue that not having a TE slows down the mpa, but having 2 or more does too. TE will never be properly balanced unless they take a close look at Shifta and Deband skills, since they are enabling so much stuff you can't possibly have TE have power levels remotely close to FO/other melee classes. RA has a similar issue. You just can't make classes that heavily boost the 11 other player's damage be too strong, otherwise you fall back in the good old problem of people leaving mpa if they don't have a RA or a TE in them. You can only either nerf Shifta/Deband/Weak bullet by a lot and rework the class accordingly, or just accept their power level will never be quite close to the less supportive classes. SEGA never has reworked a class, so Imma go and just hope they implement some kind of stacking effect for said skill to prevent having several Rangers or Techers from being a liability (i.e 10% base for shifta strike, + 2 % for every other TE in the mpa and something similar for other buff skills, 20% for WB with +4% for each RA putting an additional WB on top)

Dark Mits
Aug 13, 2018, 03:36 PM
I had typed a whole paragraph regarding a "new" mixxed EQ+Free Field style event, and at the end I realized I was describing Enemy Triggers but for powered-up level-capped infected rare versions of enemies (or enemies like Hunar, Apostolo, etc.)

Then I tried to describe an event where a certain field temporarily changes to lvl85 version, and I realized I was describing Advance Quest at max rank.

Then I tried to describe an event where the game implements hunts where we need to kill a specific enemy, and this was ARKS League / Daily Orders for 99 enemies/items.

Those 3 above led me to think that there is actually content that can satisfy our gameplay needs. It's just that this content doesn't reward "end-game" equipment for us to run it. We just flock to the FotM content and burn out by running it to death to complete the CFs or to get the drops we desire.

-=Edit=-
Regarding TE's utility, it's just as Zephyrion said; it's too much power on 1 single player, and if a 2nd appears then the latter (or former) becomes useless. This is the problem with all games that treat buffs/debuffs as a target-property and not as a caster-property. What I mean is this:

Imagine if Shifta was not mutually exclusive, meaning that if 2 players cast Shifta, you have 2 Shifta effects on you. And each Shifta effect has its own timer and its own contribution to the subject's output. But to balance this out and not make a 12-TE party as the go-to, you have to change the way Shifta behaves from a damage multiplier with just a timer to a "pool" of extra damage that is slowly dished out until its timer or the "pool" expires. Example:

Player A has Shifta Advance, and casts Shifta on Player C. The game calculates that Player's A Shifta should last for 3mins, or until 400,000 damage is dealt. The damage multiplier of Shifta from Player A is 24.625%
Player B who has less T-atk and no Shifta skills casts Shifta on Player C too. The game calculates that Player's B Shifta should last for 3mins, or until 300,000 damage is dealt. The damage multiplier of Shifta from Player B is 19.7%
Player C sees both Shifta effects on his bar (yes, it would make for a messy bar with lots of buffs). Each hit Player C does is strengthened by 24.625% from Shift A, and 19.7% from Shifta B. So if Player C would normally hit for 10000, he will now hit for 10,000 x (1 + 0.24625 + 0.197) = 14,432, as long as he remains affected by both Shifta effects. And after this first hit, Shifta A would have a remaining pool of 400,000 - 2462 = 397,538, and Shifta B would have a remaining pool of 298,030

Damn, I am such a great armchair developer.
The above numbers are for demonstration purposes only

XrosBlader821
Aug 13, 2018, 03:38 PM
And I'd prefer if the subclass system was balanced too but I'm waiting for Bo to become more viable as a subclass for almost 4 years now and we still haven't moved an inch in that regard. Te could easily capitalize on Elemental, Break stance and Bouncer Mag if the stances weren't weaker versions of Br stances, which are already slightly weaker compared to the multipliers Fi has to offer. But I don't have to tell you that, this topic has been talked to death.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2018, 04:17 PM
I still want an all-class tact with good, or at least decent t-atk so I can play Fo/Su and use techs while my pet fights.

MyNameIsHawk
Aug 13, 2018, 08:19 PM
They killed a lot of legit subclassing in EP4 -> EP5. Gunner was totally gutted as a sub -- there's actually 0 reason to use it since Chain Finish is main only and that's literally the gimmick of the class. TeRa was way more useful in EP4 but with the WB changes, it represents as much less significant damage boost for bringing WB and Techer buffs and you're better off just DPSing as a Techer normally. Even GuRa used to be a thing and now it's mostly a joke or a gimmick to show that you can still use it but there's really no reason too.

Most classes have one or two true paths with very little variation right now.

HuFi, HuSu
RaHu
FoTe
FiHu
GuFi, GuHu
TeHu, TeSu, TeBr
BrHu
BoHu
SuFi
Hr

I know there are probably some fringe builds or whatever I missed by those are by far the most common class combos you see. Honestly, I don't mind them focusing on Main class stuff since that means they can really work on fine-tuning each class.

my main is Ra/Br, i don´t feel motivated to raise Hu due the ammount of exp it requires cap it at 85. The only advantage is having a 5% more damage that HU only if the PA can be charged. Also can go Br/Ra and the tree synergy well itself, altrought im limited to hit weak spots

Jene-chan
Aug 13, 2018, 09:37 PM
my main is Ra/Br, i don´t feel motivated to raise Hu due the ammount of exp it requires cap it at 85. The only advantage is having a 5% more damage that HU only if the PA can be charged. Also can go Br/Ra and the tree synergy well itself, altrought im limited to hit weak spots

If this is what you run, this actually enforces what we're talking about cuz RaBr is in no way superior to RaHu. lol

Reilet
Aug 14, 2018, 12:18 AM
You can Su Sub for all the classes actually. And FoBr, FoFi, TeFi

Velmoria
Aug 14, 2018, 12:32 AM
my main is Ra/Br, i don´t feel motivated to raise Hu due the ammount of exp it requires cap it at 85. The only advantage is having a 5% more damage that HU only if the PA can be charged. Also can go Br/Ra and the tree synergy well itself, altrought im limited to hit weak spots

Actually to Ranger.
Fury Stance gives 61.4% damage boost.
Weak Stance (charged) gives 63.4% damage boost only to weak point.

They are multiplies, not additive
Fury Stance = 100% * (1.1^4) * (1.05^2)
charged Weak Stance = 100% * 1.35 * (1.1^2)

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2018, 07:07 AM
rabr isn't anything special for rifle. if anything, RaBr Rifle is lacking in some areas. requirement to hit weak points or you get shit damage, no durability and ability to ignore knockback. things like this.

what made RaBr super powerful was using Bow but also having access to the highest tier of Rifle. You would use Rapid Shoot for typical crazy bow damage and once that was on cooldown, you'd swap to rifle to help maintain your sustain. But considering there are no Ra usable 14* bows, that makes bow a weaker choice than rifle and no bullet keep is more of an issue now than it was before; so RaBr as a class is severely limited. I havnt even listed all the reasons either.

Jene-chan
Aug 14, 2018, 08:47 AM
You can Su Sub for all the classes actually. And FoBr, FoFi, TeFi

FoBr I'm pretty sure is dead right now and I don't think FoFi is a thing (if you're referring to the Quelle Rod). TeFi I've seen some people talking about it in the Techer thread and I believe it has the highest damage potential but all-around TeSu is probably the better combo in that space for damage/survivability/utility.

AnikaSteinberg
Aug 14, 2018, 08:59 AM
That's also understating how stupidly strong TE utility is, which also comes with the issue that not having a TE slows down the mpa, but having 2 or more does too. TE will never be properly balanced unless they take a close look at Shifta and Deband skills, since they are enabling so much stuff you can't possibly have TE have power levels remotely close to FO/other melee classes. RA has a similar issue. You just can't make classes that heavily boost the 11 other player's damage be too strong, otherwise you fall back in the good old problem of people leaving mpa if they don't have a RA or a TE in them. You can only either nerf Shifta/Deband/Weak bullet by a lot and rework the class accordingly, or just accept their power level will never be quite close to the less supportive classes. SEGA never has reworked a class, so Imma go and just hope they implement some kind of stacking effect for said skill to prevent having several Rangers or Techers from being a liability (i.e 10% base for shifta strike, + 2 % for every other TE in the mpa and something similar for other buff skills, 20% for WB with +4% for each RA putting an additional WB on top)

Techer not on par with other classes is something I can understand. But if Sega really wants to keep the class(es) alive, they'd have to make some sort of gimmick to make it attractive to new players. So far, other classes have their own visual perks that makes them attractive to new players (HR "Dante" style, FI "Brawler" style, GU "Gun-kata" style, RA "Kiritsugu" style, FO "default caster", etc.), but imo only Techer just doesn't have this kind of "luster" other classes have.

In fact, most casual players probably only know Techer as "that class that spams Shifta, Deband and Zanverse, and occasionally Restas that nobody really wants to use but at least one person has to". I'd really like my class to be known for something active if Sega adamantly insists on the support route they forced on Techer (at the latter end of EP2 going the start of EP3, to make way for the redesigned ST-atk specialist aka Bouncer). It should be a distinct attribute that defines this class in an action-genre MMO.

Something as simple (and probably stupid) as a "Supportive Compound Technic" could help make them "flashier" to new players that might be potentially interested in the class while also giving the merit of having multiple Techers (at least 3) in an MPA. Each Techer could tactically count their cooldowns while executing the last "Supportive Compound Technic" in a quest.



TL;DR
Sega needs to make Te more "active" if they want to keep it as a support class. Otherwise, just bury and delete the class altogether. No new player would ever want to play a "follow crowd, spam F1 F2 F3 repeat" class in a high action-oriented MMO.

Zorak000
Aug 14, 2018, 09:26 AM
I used to always forget about JA bonus 1+2 and TAJA bonus when I was comparing hunter and fighter subs to braver and bouncer subs; the stances themselves, alongside stuff like shifta air on bouncer and the stance charge skills on braver, would put their numbers somewhat closer to where fury+fury combo and the raw power of brave or wise stance give, but then when you factor in JA Bonus or TAJA, it just leaves braver and bouncer in the dust, since the skills they got that are closest to those are like, Combat JA Bonus, Rapid Shoot Mastery, and Rapid Boost JA Bonus, which are all active skills bound to specific weapon types

XrosBlader821
Aug 14, 2018, 10:21 AM
I used to always forget about JA bonus 1+2 and TAJA bonus when I was comparing hunter and fighter subs to braver and bouncer subs; the stances themselves, alongside stuff like shifta air on bouncer and the stance charge skills on braver, would put their numbers somewhat closer to where fury+fury combo and the raw power of brave or wise stance give, but then when you factor in JA Bonus or TAJA, it just leaves braver and bouncer in the dust, since the skills they got that are closest to those are like, Combat JA Bonus, Rapid Shoot Mastery, and Rapid Boost JA Bonus, which are all active skills bound to specific weapon types

Imagine if Rapid Shoot would affect wands. Te/Bo would be crazy!

Jene-chan
Aug 14, 2018, 10:28 AM
Basically Hu sub is back to the old EP2 maxim - "Hunter is the horse we all ride". Only difference is that it's accompanied by Su sub, which is arguably better in a lot of circumstances, and Fi sub, which is stronger overall but loses survival utility.

Zephyrion
Aug 14, 2018, 11:18 AM
Techer not on par with other classes is something I can understand. But if Sega really wants to keep the class(es) alive, they'd have to make some sort of gimmick to make it attractive to new players. So far, other classes have their own visual perks that makes them attractive to new players (HR "Dante" style, FI "Brawler" style, GU "Gun-kata" style, RA "Kiritsugu" style, FO "default caster", etc.), but imo only Techer just doesn't have this kind of "luster" other classes have.

In fact, most casual players probably only know Techer as "that class that spams Shifta, Deband and Zanverse, and occasionally Restas that nobody really wants to use but at least one person has to". I'd really like my class to be known for something active if Sega adamantly insists on the support route they forced on Techer (at the latter end of EP2 going the start of EP3, to make way for the redesigned ST-atk specialist aka Bouncer). It should be a distinct attribute that defines this class in an action-genre MMO.

Something as simple (and probably stupid) as a "Supportive Compound Technic" could help make them "flashier" to new players that might be potentially interested in the class while also giving the merit of having multiple Techers (at least 3) in an MPA. Each Techer could tactically count their cooldowns while executing the last "Supportive Compound Technic" in a quest.



TL;DR
Sega needs to make Te more "active" if they want to keep it as a support class. Otherwise, just bury and delete the class altogether. No new player would ever want to play a "follow crowd, spam F1 F2 F3 repeat" class in a high action-oriented MMO.

Then again, that's mainly due to the direction the game went. TE started with literally nothing, but SEGA progressively gave the class an identity through wand melee, therefore making TE the one true hybrid. TE/BR with Rikauteri used to provide very interesting gameplay since banish into Techniques was so unique and fun. But in that whole subclass killing trend, TE suffered the most since it became pretty clear that TE didn't quite have enough "identity".

Honestly, I was very disappointed with Heavy Hammer, not so much in terms of power or utility, but visually. I mean they could have given it a huge elemental burst or a jump into a big slam, well something flashy, but nope, we just get a pretty classic swing instead.

As for support, tbh sadly, there is not that much to be done due to how limited the possibilities of buffing people are in PSO2. We all saw what happened to BO fields and Heal bonus. Anything that isn't + damage or + resistance immediately goes into niche territory. I would love supportive compounds but I honestly don't know what effects they could have that would be both original and impactful. Who knows though, maybe I'm missing something.

Moffen
Aug 14, 2018, 11:56 AM
I feel like Te should be allowed to be competitive and do DPS alone but all the skills relating ot that should probably be main class as to not buff FoTe even more. Ranger can give the whole mpa a 20% damage boost and even a 10% damage cut but is still incredibly strong in terms of damage. Feels unfair that Ra can do that and not Te.

Zephyrion
Aug 14, 2018, 12:34 PM
I feel like Te should be allowed to be competitive and do DPS alone but all the skills relating ot that should probably be main class as to not buff FoTe even more. Ranger can give the whole mpa a 20% damage boost and even a 10% damage cut but is still incredibly strong in terms of damage. Feels unfair that Ra can do that and not Te.

Shifta strike is a lot more consistent, universal and applicable than WB, + you get Deband skills on top which are far better than Jellen Bullet (which RA has a hard time affording/using anyway due to stupidly high SP cost on top of overwriting your weak bullet load), with a lot of bonuses like territory + wide support, anti-treatment and reverse bonus (that should all be main class but oh well). Also contrary to popular belief, while TE is not an insane power machine, It still gets a very solid output in mobbing scenarios and can also get very decent damage on raid bosses thanks to Heavy Hammer windows and/or Light mastery on top of whacking. The issue lies more in how TE is perceived as a heal/buffslut, therefore not being able to have any kind of decent contribution by itself. I do agree it needs a bit more oomph though, just not as much as the memes would let you believe. I do wish we get a zero range tech skill multiplier for TE while FO gets a long range one, but we'll see how it pans out

Moffen
Aug 14, 2018, 12:44 PM
Shifta strike is a lot more consistent, universal and applicable than WB, + you get Deband skills on top which are far better than Jellen Bullet (which RA has a hard time affording/using anyway due to stupidly high SP cost on top of overwriting your weak bullet load), with a lot of bonuses like territory + wide support, anti-treatment and reverse bonus (that should all be main class but oh well). Also contrary to popular belief, while TE is not an insane power machine, It still gets a very solid output in mobbing scenarios and can also get very decent damage on raid bosses thanks to Heavy Hammer windows and/or Light mastery on top of whacking. The issue lies more in how TE is perceived as a heal/buffslut, therefore not being able to have any kind of decent contribution by itself. I do agree it needs a bit more oomph though, just not as much as the memes would let you believe. I do wish we get a zero range tech skill multiplier for TE while FO gets a long range one, but we'll see how it pans out

You have a point with everything you've said, i just thought i'd point out that Ra is considered support(By sega standards) but still has a lot of dps.
I had an idea ages ago for Te which was basically having an innocent form-type skill that buffs uncharged technics to 120% damage output,completely main class. In exchange,nerf innocent form down a bit harder maybe? All the innocent form weapons are incredibly outdated now so i think it'd be fine that the potential itself is changed so its not OP with the new skill. Idk,i feel like uncharged technics are heavily under utilised.

Zorak000
Aug 14, 2018, 01:55 PM
at the very beginning, like beta/pre-VH beginning, techs kinda felt like they were going to go for "spam uncharged for burst damage that'll run you out of pp real fast, use charged techs (on force) for sustained damage with lower dps" but I suppose that philosophy would have held had the game not sped up so much since then.

XrosBlader821
Aug 14, 2018, 04:54 PM
at the very beginning, like beta/pre-VH beginning, techs kinda felt like they were going to go for "spam uncharged for burst damage that'll run you out of pp real fast, use charged techs (on force) for sustained damage with lower dps" but I suppose that philosophy would have held had the game not sped up so much since then.

That Legacy lives on in Ilbarta.

MyNameIsHawk
Aug 14, 2018, 07:54 PM
Actually to Ranger.
Fury Stance gives 61.4% damage boost.
Weak Stance (charged) gives 63.4% damage boost only to weak point.

They are multiplies, not additive
Fury Stance = 100% * (1.1^4) * (1.05^2)
charged Weak Stance = 100% * 1.35 * (1.1^2)

i see, thanks for the tip i trought those where aditive, guess i spam keys on hu when drops then

MyNameIsHawk
Aug 14, 2018, 08:20 PM
Then again, that's mainly due to the direction the game went. TE started with literally nothing, but SEGA progressively gave the class an identity through wand melee, therefore making TE the one true hybrid. TE/BR with Rikauteri used to provide very interesting gameplay since banish into Techniques was so unique and fun. But in that whole subclass killing trend, TE suffered the most since it became pretty clear that TE didn't quite have enough "identity".

Honestly, I was very disappointed with Heavy Hammer, not so much in terms of power or utility, but visually. I mean they could have given it a huge elemental burst or a jump into a big slam, well something flashy, but nope, we just get a pretty classic swing instead.

As for support, tbh sadly, there is not that much to be done due to how limited the possibilities of buffing people are in PSO2. We all saw what happened to BO fields and Heal bonus. Anything that isn't + damage or + resistance immediately goes into niche territory. I would love supportive compounds but I honestly don't know what effects they could have that would be both original and impactful. Who knows though, maybe I'm missing something.

maybe a array of PA for TE that are element-locked regardless of wand in use, so FO go spam-tech while TE goes hybrid melee-tech user. instead of mess whit the power or the ability of buffing since is a hard area to balance, if the power of TE shifta/deband/zanverse became too high, then will be considered mandatory to future content (EP3 magatsu for example, requiring a ranger present or it was very likely the run will fail)

the idea i get from TE is "a class that have extended support power" while BO is "a quick-paced striker whit the ability of indirect support".
BO support is limited to crit which only FI get a mayor benefit, and PP restorate that depend if you strike the element weakness of target, aside of shifta/deband/zanverse buffs that any casting class could also apply.

giving TE more melee gimick should give it "identity" instead massive hunter>zondeel>normal>normal>normal.

XrosBlader821
Aug 15, 2018, 05:42 AM
I'd still argue that we should get Te specific Techs and Compounds. Stuff like Ramegid Type-0 or Nabarta Type-0 but using Te elements (Wind, Light, Dark) exclusively. Te specific compounds should focus around Te elements and inflict Te status ailments (Mirage, Panic Poison) because the current ones don't do that and maybe get a damage bonus based on Wand Gear while redesigning Wand Lovers into a temporary buff for Normal Attack Burst Damage, capping Wand Gear temporarily, increasing normal Attack damage & Speed and Tech Explosions damage and range when JA.. A weapon action that does different things based on weapon element would be nice and incentivise the use of Wand E Change.

Point is Te needs options on how to dispose enemies cause currently there aren't many. Having many options is what makes a class engaging. Hunter, Fighter and Hero have three different weapons (four if you consider Fi/Hu Gunslash), meaning they have three different ways of disposing of enemies. How viable they are is irrelevant for now. Force, Ranger, Gunner, Braver and bouncer have two weapons and with summoner each Pet can be considered a different weapon.
Techtor only has the Wand. Talis is only there in case of Anga / Phaleg shenanigans and the wand itself has only bonking or techs weaker than Fo. I'd say the easiest way for Sega to make playing Te more engaging is giving Te a mainclass only, Talis specific Boost to Tech damage. Maybe like Talis Element Conversion & Talis Specific PP charge revival? it'd also fix the problem of "Wand can switch elements so why make Element Conversion when the weapon will always match elements anyways" AND We'd be able to affix S-ATK on out Wands and T-ATK on Talis without having to worry about efficiency in both.