PSO2 on Tokyo Game Show 2018

[Maulcun]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--FYWoM3Hd--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/wndsfbsn0srpgh7ytmcj.png


Day 1 - Monster Hunter Frontier Z x Phantasy Star Online 2 Colaboration Stage


Date: September 20 @ 14:30 ~ 15:10 (JST)
Automatic conversion time: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=24%C2%BA+PSO2+STATION+SP++Tokyo +Game+Show+2018Monster+Hunter+Frontier+Z+x+Phantas y+Star+Online+2+Colabora&iso=20180920T1430&p1=248&ah=1]



Official Link Nico Nico: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv315225962
Official Link YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fnrs_-c3vc?rel=0



Hosts

Sakai Satoshi / PSO2 Producer
Yuya Kimura / PSO2 Director



Topics

Informations about PSO2xMHZ colaboration.
Teruki Miyashita (MHZ Developer) will appear as a special guest.


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Day 3 - PSO2 Stage - Tokyo Game Show


Date: September 22 @ 12:20 ~ 13:20 (JST)
Automatic conversion time: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Day+3+-++PSO2+Stage+-+Tokyo+Game+Show&iso=20180922T1220&p1=248&ah=1]



Official Link Nico Nico: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv315226583
Official Link YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67JqqNevf6A?rel=0



Hosts

Sakai Satoshi / PSO2 Producer
Yuya Kimura / PSO2 Director
Ichitaro Ai / ARKS Live
Yui Hasegawa / Member of ARKS Publicity Squad-NT



Topics

Information about the October updates (PSO2 and PSO2es).


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Day 4 - 24º PSO2 STATION SP Tokyo Game Show 2018


Date: September 23 @ 11:00 ~ 12:00 (JST) [Automatic conversion time: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=24%C2%BA+PSO2+STATION+SP++Tokyo +Game+Show+2018&iso=20180923T11&p1=248&ah=1]

Official Link Nico Nico: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv315226750
Official Link YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XV8T5kvC6I?rel=0



Hosts

Sakai Satoshi / PSO2 Producer
Yuya Kimura / PSO2 Director
Marika Kouno / Member of Dark Falz Girls
Nasu Nakanishi (Nakanishi Shigeki and Nasu Akiyuki) / Memnber of ARKS Publicity Squad-NT



Topics

Information about new updates.
Sumi Shimamoto (CV: Alisa) will appear as a special guest.
Revelation of a secret video.


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TGS 20187 Special Stage - Monster Hunter Frontier Z


Date: September 21 @ 10:45 ~ 11:35 (JST) [Automatic conversion time: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=TGS+20187+Special+Stage+-+Monster+Hunter+Frontier+Z&iso=20180921T1045&p1=248&ah=1]

Official Link Nico Nico: Coming soon
Official Link YouTube: https://youtu.be/5ZGdVY_NRbU



Topics

Informations about collaborations and more!
Sakai Satoshi (PSO2 Producer) will appear as a special guest on capcom stand.

[KaizoKage]

They better show some new Advanced classes cause the recent one we got was released around August iirc. Its already more than a year since Hero was released so they better hype us all to death with some new class goodies.

[Kondibon]

They better show some new Advanced classes cause the recent one we got was released around August iirc. Its already more than a year since Hero was released so they better hype us all to death with some new class goodies.They said they're doing one per episode, so we're not going to hear about another one until episode 6 is around the corner at best. And that's assuming the shift in plans didn't push it back.

[cheapgunner]

They said they're doing one per episode, so we're not going to hear about another one until episode 6 is around the corner at best. And that's assuming the shift in plans didn't push it back.

Saw this in the last few years as a bad idea to do. Should at least be 2 new classes per episode and the next one scould feature a new weapon class for that class on its own (Bitball, Bard, etc.) Having only 1 per episode means everybody and their mother is gonna run to that class for the next 3+ months.

[Zephyrion]

Saw this in the last few years as a bad idea to do. Should at least be 2 new classes per episode and the next one scould feature a new weapon class for that class on its own (Bitball, Bard, etc.) Having only 1 per episode means everybody and their mother is gonna run to that class for the next 3+ months.

People are voting for advanced class but their defining trait is using older weapons in a new way, if you want new weapons, you need a normal class...but apparently according to SEGA"s poll nobody wants normal class, so new weapon is more than unlikely to happen.

One class per episode is enough in my book, first because regardless of how often you get new classes, people will always bandwagon like mad on whatever is the most recent. Whatever new advanced will be played like mad for 6 months until next one happens, and it will then fail into oblivion for the next newest thing unless it's not to their taste. Also let's be real, sinking more budget into designing new classes from scratch would mean less new content, and we all know what happens whenever SEGA doesn't deliver enough content... Let's not forget people playing one class to death and then claiming it's boring outright refusing to play any of the 9 other very unique classes the game has for more than 5 minutes is kind of a contradiction.

TGS Stream will most likely be detail the collab with Monster Hunter and Double DB update while teasing whatever final boss (most likely Omega PD but we never know) EP5 will throw at us, so new advanced teaser won't happen until the station after that if we're VERY optimistic

[cheapgunner]

People are voting for advanced class but their defining trait is using older weapons in a new way, if you want new weapons, you need a normal class...but apparently according to SEGA"s poll nobody wants normal class, so new weapon is more than unlikely to happen.

One class per episode is enough in my book, first because regardless of how often you get new classes, people will always bandwagon like mad on whatever is the most recent. Whatever new advanced will be played like mad for 6 months until next one happens, and it will then fail into oblivion for the next newest thing unless it's not to their taste. Also let's be real, sinking more budget into designing new classes from scratch would mean less new content, and we all know what happens whenever SEGA doesn't deliver enough content... Let's not forget people playing one class to death and then claiming it's boring when you effectively have 9 other very unique classes but people refuse to play them for even more than 5 minutes is kind of a contradiction.

Makes sense. I'm just waiting on my Rifle/Rod/Partisan(Katana) class that has some cool class-only tricks or a protranser-lite class that can use every weapon (PSU-memories).

[the_importer_]

Hoping SONY announces a Switch competitor at TGS2018.

[XrosBlader821]

A class desiged around the Gunslash is long overdue.
Sega's stubborness of making the Gunslash equally useless on all classes is also somewhat misplaced because there are class combo's who are objectively better for a Gunslash build than others.

[Maulcun]

post update

[Terrence]

People are voting for advanced class but their defining trait is using older weapons in a new way, if you want new weapons, you need a normal class...but apparently according to SEGA"s poll nobody wants normal class, so new weapon is more than unlikely to happen.We already had a S/R hybrid Class with the BRaver and a S/T hybrid Class with the BOuncer. The logical consequence would have been to get the long-awaited R/T hybrid Class (with Diskas and Whips for example). But we got HEro instead with three old weapons used a different way and players got really mad at that. But the same players voted to get more advanced Classes. Totally sensible. As Zephyrion says, a new weapon is unlikely to happen (we'll probably never have one anymore).

[ArcaneTechs]

People are voting for advanced class but their defining trait is using older weapons in a new way, if you want new weapons, you need a normal class...but apparently according to SEGA"s poll nobody wants normal class, so new weapon is more than unlikely to happen.

i could swear sega already said they were going to remove the "advance class" category and just put Hero on the same level as the other classes so I mean it'd be great to see new weapons because ya, kinda tired of the current ones and even though they can be re-worked, I still want something new (or brought back from PSU). Axes, Claws, Slicers are still what im waiting for and most likely wont happen. Sega can do it, but they wont

[Sirius-91]

i could swear sega already said they were going to remove the "advance class" category and just put Hero on the same level as the other classes so I mean it'd be great to see new weapons because ya, kinda tired of the current ones and even though they can be re-worked, I still want something new (or brought back from PSU). Axes, Claws, Slicers are still what im waiting for and most likely wont happen. Sega can do it, but they wont

No, it was new advanced class every new episode. The balance changes were making the other classes be on the same level as hero. You're going to see this continue, as sega is already planning on making more classes that fit into "Hero-type" classes.

[SteveCZ]

If there's ever a new "advanced" class announcement or at least a teaser, I do hope it involves gunslash and/or wand. Especially if it's a battle wand kind of class. :)

Meanwhile I hope this collab will be good.

[Zephyrion]

i could swear sega already said they were going to remove the "advance class" category and just put Hero on the same level as the other classes so I mean it'd be great to see new weapons because ya, kinda tired of the current ones and even though they can be re-worked, I still want something new (or brought back from PSU). Axes, Claws, Slicers are still what im waiting for and most likely wont happen. Sega can do it, but they wont

They'll still be a thing of their own since their shtick is re-use already existing weapons but drastically change the way they play. SEGA did mention in a livestream they are considering giving a new name to this category, since "advanced" kinda undermines the older classes by saying they are basic and/or weak.

What I said was only based on poll result in which people voted for Hero-type class at above 70%. However, given all what happened regarding Hero, they may or may not follow that. Also Hero Talis shows you can re-use an old weapon and turn it into a new one, since it really looks and feels more like using shurikens when used by Hero. They could make it so wands are used like Axes, Knuckles like Claws, and Katanas like Slicer or whatever.

[Sirius-91]

If there's ever a new "advanced" class announcement or at least a teaser, I do hope it involves gunslash and/or wand. Especially if it's a battle wand kind of class. :)

Datamining says they're set with the new adv. class and they're calling it Villain.

[XrosBlader821]

We already had a S/R hybrid Class with the BRaver and a S/T hybrid Class with the BOuncer. The logical consequence would have been to get the long-awaited R/T hybrid Class (with Diskas and Whips for example). But we got HEro instead with three old weapons used a different way and players got really mad at that. But the same players voted to get more advanced Classes. Totally sensible. As Zephyrion says, a new weapon is unlikely to happen (we'll probably never have one anymore).

Scratch Hero and replace with Summoner.
I doubt as many people were expecting it for EP5 as much they did for EP4


I still want something new (or brought back from PSU). Axes, Claws, Slicers are still what im waiting for and most likely wont happen. Sega can do it, but they wont
Yeah because the current weapon pool isn't big enough. I'd rather have more classes using old weapons to make them more valuable.

[SteveCZ]

Datamining says they're set with the new adv. class and they're calling it Villain.

Villain ... interesting O: . I wonder what the weapons are.

[Great Pan]

I want a Monk type class. Let my fists and kicks do the talking!

[MyNameIsHawk]

Villain ... interesting O: . I wonder what the weapons are.

it will be a class that can kill at will other players to boost oneself (?)

[Mattykins]

Disguises, banana peels, and a net [that I just found!]

[ArcaneTechs]

Yeah because the current weapon pool isn't big enough. I'd rather have more classes using old weapons to make them more valuable.
its not and i honestly consider it minimal from what PSU provided

[Sonickyle27]

its not and i honestly consider it minimal from what PSU provided

Portable 2 had 28 different weapon types (http://psp2.psupedia.info/Special%253ASearch/Weapons.html). Damn.

[Dark Mits]

In retrospect, maybe it would have been better for the longevity of the game (but definitely not for people who play meta) to have half number of PAs for each weapon type, and instead have twice as many weapons. For example, Assault Rifle has Shotgun mode, Launcher has Laser Mode, Wired Lance could have half of its PAs for Whips etc.

[NightfallG]

Portable 2 had 28 different weapon types (http://psp2.psupedia.info/Special%253ASearch/Weapons.html). Damn.

it kinda cheats in that regard considering how all the ranged weapons were damn near the same, but yeah, it's depressing how limited things became.

[AVO]

2 more days i guess.

Though the real updates come in 4 days.

[Zephyrion]

it kinda cheats in that regard considering how all the ranged weapons were damn near the same, but yeah, it's depressing how limited things became.

I consider this quite the fallacy since it wasn't only ranged weapons, a lot of them had similar behaviour, function or animation. PSO2 weapons are less numerous but each of them have a very unique feel and style. I loved PSU too, but I honestly much rather have the PSO2 approach of quality over quantity when it comes to weapons and classes (if only it could also apply to fashion too xD)

[kurokyosuke]

No Kirin Armor in MH collab.
Sega, you gone dun fucked up.

[final_attack]

MHF-Z collab ..... the male heavy armor costume looks pretty nice

Boss statue in lobby .... the boss can appear in Free Field too.
4-man party for the boss fight?
Can sever tail for the boss, then carve it manually?
After boss's dead, can carve it .... 3 times, I think.

The LA for carving (I think) + potion drink ...... and grilling the meat ....

[ArcaneTechs]

No Kirin Armor in MH collab.
Sega, you gone dun fucked up.
A MAN WITH GREAT TASTE AND SAME SENTIMENTS!!!

at least the monsters costume isnt too bad, i was expecting Rathalos and Kirin Armor to show up as well, major bummer

random field spawn is dumb because its just going to show up at a super low level because sega still hasnt upped the mob Lv's in every field

[Dark Mits]

random field spawn is dumb because its just going to show up at a super low level because sega still hasnt upped the mob Lv's in every fieldIt could be like Apostolo. Lvl63 Apostolo in Naberius Forest is 10x more difficult than any lvl80 Parallel Area.

[Meteor Weapon]

It could be like Apostolo. Lvl63 Apostolo in Naberius Forest is 10x more difficult than any lvl80 Parallel Area.

I swear to god trying to solo that thing is nuts.

[Terrence]

MHF-Z collab ..... the male heavy armor costume looks pretty nice (...)Except it make you look like you shit in your pants. We don't have that kind of issue with the female version of course, which should be renamed "Slutty Armor" by the way. :nono:

[ArcaneTechs]

It could be like Apostolo. Lvl63 Apostolo in Naberius Forest is 10x more difficult than any lvl80 Parallel Area.
Parallel bosses are outdated and still melt, Apostolo is no different. Theyre going about the worst way to implement this new boss into the game and especially excluding it to the only relevant field in the game: Enchanted Forest.

have fun guruguru'ing in old outdated fields for a 2min fight for a chance at a trigger with 3 deaths and a Lv that is actually threatening. Sega is going about all this all the wrong way unless they confirm an LQ or something this Sat

[Zephyrion]

Parallel bosses are outdated and still melt, Apostolo is no different. Theyre going about the worst way to implement this new boss into the game and especially excluding it to the only relevant field in the game: Enchanted Forest.

have fun guruguru'ing in old outdated fields for a 2min fight for a chance at a trigger with 3 deaths and a Lv that is actually threatening. Sega is going about all this all the wrong way unless they confirm an LQ or something this Sat

Considering how they treated old collaborations bosses up to this point, and considering they went out of their way to make a special MH field for said collaboration, it's extremely unlikely the boss wouldn't be guaranteed to spawn in a new quest dedicated to the collab. I'm pretty sure it will be like Odin deal, a LQ dedicated to it, but can also appear in fields.

Also Apostolo is deliciously painful to 1v1; so I can't wait to get a XQ or something to actually learn how to fight it properly.

[Jene-chan]

I'm not sure why everyone is so spooked by Apostolo Dragon. It's just Chrome with a slightly different ultimate with significantly more HP. Chrome is still one of the more active bosses but I've encountered Apostolo in XH Free Kuro and the most remarkable thing I have to say is that he has a lot of HP on XH. There are tons of ways to dodge his attacks and ultimate at this point.

[Zephyrion]

I'm not sure why everyone is so spooked by Apostolo Dragon. It's just Chrome with a slightly different ultimate with significantly more HP. Chrome is still one of the more active bosses but I've encountered Apostolo in XH Free Kuro and the most remarkable thing I have to say is that he has a lot of HP on XH. There are tons of ways to dodge his attacks and ultimate at this point.

It's mostly a class thing, the fact that he can summon spikes while doing other things once fully powered up is incredibly nasty for any class that can't actively deflect damage back at it (looking at stuff like Hunter,Braver and Hero). Most ranged classes, notably RA (bow probably hates this boss to death too) on the other hand struggle a lot to actually find openings for damage, which isn't helped by the obnoxious amount of HP he has.

[Jene-chan]

um...considering what ranger can do solo on eqs like dragon and loser, i really can't imagine ranger doesn't have all the tools to make fighting apostolo solo any harder than any other class. also, dedicated bow is pretty technical and relies on a lot of knowledge to play and it's somewhat clunky as well, so im going to assume bow in general is harder on everything

i really cant see hero having any issues with that boss either

[Zephyrion]

um...considering what ranger can do solo on eqs like dragon and loser, i really can't imagine ranger doesn't have all the tools to make fighting apostolo solo any harder than any other class. also, dedicated bow is pretty technical and relies on a lot of knowledge to play and it's somewhat clunky as well, so im going to assume bow in general is harder on everything

i really cant see hero having any issues with that boss either

The major difference lies within how efficient your PAs are against x or y boss, which is the exact reason why RA struggles a lot more with Hunar and duelist type bosses like Phaleg, compared to raids. Loser is VERY vulnerable to EA due to hitbox size, and is honestly slow enough for you to churn so many of them, Dragon is a cunt, but he is blessed with a giant head hitbox that makes some of its patterns and exhaustion stun very exploitable. Meanwhile Apostolo, similarly to Chrome, fucks all your PAs except One point and Para 0, doesn't have a specific range modifier on its head,and very often turns around making it hard to hit reliably anyway, and now fucks some of the more exploitable patterns with delayed spikes. Of course there are probably ways to deal with all these issues and find better ways to fight it...but you'd need the boss to not appear once every blue moon to actually learn that sooo

Also Hunter, Braver and Hero were referred to as the classes that eat Apostolo for breakfast, not the other way around, blame my poor English skills xD

[Dark Mits]

I envy you guys who have no trouble with Apostolo. If DaB is not ready, I need 5 full minutes, maybe more, to solo his lvl60ish version.


I'm not sure why everyone is so spooked by Apostolo Dragon.I've encountered him 4 or 5 times during daily SH FQ. Its lvl60ish version killed me from 2100 hp without me having control of my character during that time, because I got caught in his air-launching spikes. The rest have been mentioned from the rest of the posters already :)

[Jene-chan]

I've encountered him 4 or 5 times during daily SH FQ. Its lvl60ish version killed me from 2100 hp without me having control of my character during that time, because I got caught in his air-launching spikes. The rest have been mentioned from the rest of the posters already :)

do you not have air reversal

pretty much every class can destroy apostolo dragon, he just has tons of hp (not sure why fighter or gunner wasnt mentioned in classes that shit on him). on xh dragon on gunner, he took 3 full chain 100 finishes before dying. also re: ranger, im assuming ranger main with atra rifle which is pure ignorance mode. even without that, i really don't feel ranger would have any issues with that boss but we don't need to belabor the point any further.

[milranduil]

do you not have air reversal

pretty much every class can destroy apostolo dragon, he just has tons of hp (not sure why fighter or gunner wasnt mentioned in classes that shit on him). on xh dragon on gunner, he took 3 full chain 100 finishes before dying. also re: ranger, im assuming ranger main with atra rifle which is pure ignorance mode. even without that, i really don't feel ranger would have any issues with that boss but we don't need to belabor the point any further.

atra rifle doesn't do anything for ra with apostolo/chrome because EA is pointless to use on him. it double hits at best, headshot bonus is only 1.2 to begin with, and the rest of his hitboxes are 0.5 or 1.0 meaning piercing damage is not good.. parallel slider is easy and not challenging, but it's DPS is not good compared to a boss that can be sacked with 3+ hit EA or SC. the appropriate word is perhaps tedious, rather than challenging.

[final_attack]

Roadmap (https://twitter.com/sega_pso2/status/1043352361291329536)
[SPOILER-BOX]https://i.imgur.com/lx0ktgR.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

1 player UQ ....

Hmm .... weapon customize system (4th line, under level cap 90) .....
I wonder what that is ... maybe tomorrow's broadcast?

Valkyria(?) female costumes looks really nice :D

[ArcaneTechs]

i've never been so upset from one of Sega streams until now, I need Ep6 already, I need a new class. we're just going through the same crap again with little content. oh man, i just cant lol

looks like a whopping 4-5 whole dam months for Ep6, iunno

[final_attack]

Well, at least Ep5 gonna enter climax ..... soon?? _(:3」
Omega-PD at the end? Those dark sphere (reminds me of God Eater 2, but the dark version)

[ArcaneTechs]

Well, at least Ep5 gonna enter climax ..... soon?? _(:3」
Omega-PD at the end? Those dark sphere (reminds me of God Eater 2, but the dark version)
Omega PD and Omega Persona, YAWN like we all didn't see this coming

[KaizoKage]

uugghh, NOTHING interests me so far except for MH content since Im a die hard MH fan... but for PSO2? meh....I just hope they tease something good tomorrow like New class or something. I hate to compare this game to others but other online games in terms of updates are so exciting like warframe and LoL IMO

[SteveCZ]

2018 winter update, one outfit from magic horror, and one outfit from mhz collab. \o/

[ArcaneTechs]

i read Ep6 info around Thanksgivings stream, Im slightly less mad now :wacko:

also OMEGA Chicken (Cockatrice)

[Kondibon]

oMEGA COCKatrice

[final_attack]

Maybe the "secret video" will contain a ...... teaser for Ep6 ..... new class maybe? :wacko: Or just new skills for Lv90

I'm curious for that "new weapon customize system" ...... I wonder if the info will be available tomorrow.

Definitely gonna try watching tomorrow's live stream :wacko:

[kurokyosuke]

I'm kinda surprised that no one is bringing up the "Free Fields getting XH difficulty" part in the roadmap.

[Zephyrion]

I'm kinda surprised that no one is bringing up the "Free Fields getting XH difficulty" part in the roadmap.

Everybody too busy whining about "there's mah new class" "Not enough new content" "PSO2 is shit" yada yada to even read the damn new roadmap and realize we 're getting 2 new raids, 3 new quests and that's right before EP5 closure. Given the roadmap, EP6 should be hitting around February, so new class isn't likely to be teased until Late October/December, which makes sense, and will avoid the "damn, the new class that has been teased is taking forever to arrive"

It's high time people realize that despite its iconic name, SEGA is now a "lesser" company in terms of publishing and creating, so they're operating with limited budget and manpower. They just can't afford to be as shiny as all the other main contenders. Being critical is fine, but you gotta remember SEGA is not holding content in hostage to upset the bad kids, they just can't keep an update rhythm similar to MHW (Capcom vs SEGA lol ? they also make you pay full price for the box) or FF14 (Square Enix ? double lol, also subscription model, so it has to justify its model by fast iterations).

In short, not liking, getting bored of PSO2 is perfectly fine, but when one finds it that boring and irksome, instead of pushing unreasonable expectations on the game, wouldn't it be better to just...go play something else ?

[Kintama]

Yeah i was celebrating on my own for the XH free field, but sure i'll throw a yay around here if necessary!

Y A Y \ o /

[Kintama]

Do we have update videos yet by the way?

[oratank]

I'm kinda surprised that no one is bringing up the "Free Fields getting XH difficulty" part in the roadmap.

well we omega forest with plenty of 14* drop there. old XH free field kindda nothing now

[RefrainDP]

Maybe the "secret video" will contain a ...... teaser for Ep6 ..... new class maybe? :wacko: Or just new skills for Lv90

I wouldn't get my hopes that high. Most likely it will be a look into December's raid boss.

[XrosBlader821]

Can't wait to be utterly disappointed by the new Wand from Trick or Treat.

[AVO]

SEGA is a small indie company, please forgive them for taking years to implement XH free field for SOME of the areas. :(

[FantasyHeaven]

It's high time people realize that despite its iconic name, SEGA is now a "lesser" company in terms of publishing and creating, so they're operating with limited budget and manpower. They just can't afford to be as shiny as all the other main contenders.
Poor, poor sega. I'm so sorry for them. If only this could have been prevented.



Being critical is fine, but you gotta remember SEGA is not holding content in hostage to upset the bad kids, they just can't keep an update rhythm similar to MHW (Capcom vs SEGA lol ? they also make you pay full price for the box) or FF14 (Square Enix ? double lol, also subscription model, so it has to justify its model by fast iterations).
What are you even talking about? Neither of those games get any content at all. MHW gets nothing and it's not even in the same category so comparing it is stupid. Capcom is more likely to just release a MHW Ultimate edition instead with 5 new monsters and a map and sell it at full price. FF14 gets a worthwhile patch something like twice a year while being international, multiple expansions you have to buy, subscription based and having a shop at the same time.



In short, not liking, getting bored of PSO2 is perfectly fine, but when one finds it that boring and irksome, instead of pushing unreasonable expectations on the game, wouldn't it be better to just...go play something else ?
In short, that is what most people have already done. This kind of mentality is what killed the game.

[Sayara]

What made them decide Uransara was a good weapon to make into a 14 star? lol...

[XrosBlader821]

What are you even talking about? Neither of those games get any content at all. MHW gets nothing and it's not even in the same category so comparing it is stupid. Capcom is more likely to just release a MHW Ultimate edition instead with 5 new monsters and a map and sell it at full price. FF14 gets a worthwhile patch something like twice a year while being international, multiple expansions you have to buy, subscription based and having a shop at the same time.

Ultimate Versions (or G versions as they're known in japan) of Monster Hunter games usually come with G-Rank difficulty. which expand the endgame very much by adding new Weapon/Armor upgrades, tougher Monster AI and hunting conditions as well as new monsters, which aren't just 5 new monsters. The difference between Monster Hunter Tri and Tri Ultimate was 50 monsters, 11 new and 39 Subspecies. There is also a posibility of new Weapons & Areas being added (Tri Ultimate for example had 4 new weapons). FF14 as well is giving a lot of content in between the expansions. Storylines between the expansions are as long as the storylines that are being released with the expansion and the game regularly adds new Raid content, and other stuff like player housing or other side activities.

All in all you're extremely downplaying the amount of content that's being added to these two games.


In short, that is what most people have already done. This kind of mentality is what killed the game.
The game is not dead tho?

[ArcaneTechs]

Everybody too busy whining about "there's mah new class" "Not enough new content" "PSO2 is shit" yada yada to even read the damn new roadmap and realize we 're getting 2 new raids, 3 new quests and that's right before EP5 closure. Given the roadmap, EP6 should be hitting around February, so new class isn't likely to be teased until Late October/December, which makes sense, and will avoid the "damn, the new class that has been teased is taking forever to arrive"

It's high time people realize that despite its iconic name, SEGA is now a "lesser" company in terms of publishing and creating, so they're operating with limited budget and manpower. They just can't afford to be as shiny as all the other main contenders. Being critical is fine, but you gotta remember SEGA is not holding content in hostage to upset the bad kids, they just can't keep an update rhythm similar to MHW (Capcom vs SEGA lol ? they also make you pay full price for the box) or FF14 (Square Enix ? double lol, also subscription model, so it has to justify its model by fast iterations).

In short, not liking, getting bored of PSO2 is perfectly fine, but when one finds it that boring and irksome, instead of pushing unreasonable expectations on the game, wouldn't it be better to just...go play something else ?
these guys more than pull in enough money every scratch and from every other microtransactions made otherwise they wouldnt be winning all these Webmoney awards etc over the years. They have the means to pull the manpower to create content, whether theyre actually doing it or not idk but lack of funds is not their problem especially with how much better the company has gotten over the years



What made them decide Uransara was a good weapon to make into a 14 star? lol...
muh PSU nostalgia, we didnt forget about the old games!

the wand sounds pretty ok for TE/FI users

[Sirius-91]

these guys more than pull in enough money every scratch and from every other microtransactions made otherwise they wouldnt be winning all these Webmoney awards etc over the years. They have the means to pull the manpower to create content, whether theyre actually doing it or not idk but lack of funds is not their problem especially with how much better the company has gotten over the years

Those voice actors they hire likely blow the budget pretty high.

[Zephyrion]

In short, that is what most people have already done. This kind of mentality is what killed the game.

Except there is nothing wrong with taking a break when you don't enjoy the game anymore ? I'd rather have people not playing the game when they dislike the content that's being highlighted, and come back at a later time and see things with a fresh view and enjoy the game than people playing the game only for habit's sake, burn out and then associate it with the plague once they reach the boiling point.


these guys more than pull in enough money every scratch and from every other microtransactions made otherwise they wouldnt be winning all these Webmoney awards etc over the years. They have the means to pull the manpower to create content, whether theyre actually doing it or not idk but lack of funds is not their problem especially with how much better the company has gotten over the years


OK so first things first, unlike what the name suggests, Webmoney award isn't about the amount of money you pull, but about popularity inside Japan (and Japan only) according to a jury (read, doesn't even have to be the one with the most users).sidenote, said popularity plumetted in 2017 with Hero being added (went from winning Grand Prix to not even on the podium) Sakai even said This had a pretty dire impact on the game's profit. PSO2 does make profits, but it doesn't churn mad bucks.

Also a company doesn't work just like "oh there is money, we need people so let's just serve ourselves". PSO2 branch, like any game developing branch, operates on a set budget and number of empoyees, and the only way to get more employees and a bigger budget is to hope SEGA higher-ups decide it's worth the investment. Given PSO2 being an aging game, I highly doubt they would pump out a significantly higher budget for it.

All of this is mostly conjecture of course, but what isn't is that PSO2 is a smaller scale free-to-play MMO, so expecting them to completely reinvent the wheel is quite unrealistic.

[Zorak000]

im betting the secret video will be about whatever they're doing with omega dio hunar here:

https://puu.sh/ByXBz/5dc3514753.jpg

[KaizoKage]

these guys more than pull in enough money every scratch and from every other microtransactions made otherwise they wouldnt be winning all these Webmoney awards etc over the years. They have the means to pull the manpower to create content, whether theyre actually doing it or not idk but lack of funds is not their problem especially with how much better the company has gotten over the years


Of course SEGA is doing their work:
10% male costumes
10% actual content
80% kinky female waifu costumes

[vantpers]

Why would anyone want a new class after Hr? Sure if we had competent team that could quick patch any great imbalances of that class release time without first buffing everyone, then buffing them more, then realizing power crept invalidated a big part of content, then realizing you power crept one class way too much but saying it's fixed". I don't see how a new Episode would be able to fix anything but maybe the setting right now.

More than making another raid boss or another EQ I would want Sega to actually learn to recycle assets better. I can't see how we have less than 10 variations of Tower Defense right now. They could make fun quest regardless of any drops by just having unusual or overpowered wave setups, which is much better idea than Endless where the only notable enemy is ticking timer and you can't fail it (but hell if you don't 1 lap solo you might as well be failing it). The whole Enchanted Forest is the best pieces of EP5 overall because they precisely make effort to let players fight the whole bunch of new bosses they made for the story when they want and with semi-decent HP. I now do hope XH free fields don't drop the ball and we will see even level 85 enemies like edgier chrome.

[Kintama]

im betting the secret video will be about whatever they're doing with omega dio hunar here:

https://puu.sh/ByXBz/5dc3514753.jpg

Doubt it, they usually keep end of episode hunars "secret" until they're out in story.

Crossing fingers for UQ Vopal here, Omega PD won't be enough to keep us playing when lvl 90 comes out.

[Tymek]

im betting the secret video will be about whatever they're doing with omega dio hunar here:

https://puu.sh/ByXBz/5dc3514753.jpg

Is it just me, or do some parts of that silhouette resemble Deus Anges?

[Kondibon]

Why would anyone want a new class after Hr? Sure if we had competent team that could quick patch any great imbalances of that class release time without first buffing everyone, then buffing them more, then realizing power crept invalidated a big part of content, then realizing you power crept one class way too much but saying it's fixed". I don't see how a new Episode would be able to fix anything but maybe the setting right now.

Hr lead to a lot of powercreep because it was intentionally better than the other classes by design. The plan was for the new classes to all be like that, but only have 1 per episode. The balancing only happened because people HATED having every class but hero get dropped off. Any new classes they add shouldn't be anywhere near as dramatically ahead of everything, if they are at all.

Personally I'd argue that it was a good thing because it prompted them to actually make the other classes more fun and fluid to play, which is something they needed for a while, even before Hr existed.

[vantpers]

Hr lead to a lot of powercreep because it was intentionally better than the other classes by design. The plan was for the new classes to all be like that, but only have 1 per episode. The balancing only happened because people HATED having every class but hero get dropped off. Any new classes they add shouldn't be anywhere near as dramatically ahead of everything, if they are at all.

Personally I'd argue that it was a good thing because it prompted them to actually make the other classes more fun and fluid to play, which is something they needed for a while, even before Hr existed.

How the fuck did high level boost or all those notation boosts for everyone make them more fluid? WLs are still a horrible weapon and those needed to be more fluid. Like what was the reason for Gunner getting Another Sroll Arts besides going from best single target class to best everything class? How would moving charge parrying from 0.7 second to 1.5 make Hunter more fluid? I hate how people eat up anything that makes them kill things faster and immediately praise Sega for it. Classes are less fun to play than ever because everything became mechanically easier, enemies didn't catch up, and the interclass balance sucks even harder. Fluidity is only as good as enemies are able to react to it, and there is a reason why Monster Hunter has its popularity, with even MHW receiving massive complains over lack of enemy AI changes justifying moveset enhancements.

We got double jump while Sega couldn't be bothered to make EP4 Ragne reskin have armored core or any attacks reaching a person unloading on it (just use the AQ AI). In fact most of pre EP5 stuff has various difficulties hitting upwards but we totally needed that double jump, or wonderful dashing PAs so we can exit quests even faster and make sure any TD derivative needs no proper splitting from the players.

[AVO]

As the saying goes, some classes get the better balance than the others.

*Looks at bo taking almost a year to get turn rates on dw and gw*

[final_attack]

Those new DF attacks .... seems hard to dodge ..... >_>

And, I guess it's attacks will depends on the mask (all DF so far?)

The last vid, in case anyone want to see it offline Official YouTube posted better version, so, I'll delete it ^^;

[oratank]

new raid ShinDF somehow a combine form of all DF (´･ω･｀)

[Meteor Weapon]

Omega Profound Darkness/Greater Shadow(?)/Amplum Umbra(?) https://twitter.com/_TUKA_/status/1043698556643631105

[KaizoKage]

is the new raid perhaps the Omega PD?

also I was expecting more on the stream :v

[Kondibon]

How the fuck did high level boost or all those notation boosts for everyone make them more fluid? WLs are still a horrible weapon and those needed to be more fluid.I wasn't talking about raw multipliers and you know it. Numbers are a lot easier to change than mechanics.


Like what was the reason for Gunner getting Another Sroll Arts besides going from best single target class to best everything class?That's just bad number balance and poor foresight, it had nothing to do with Hr anymore than Shunka or Su/Gu did. Sega makes those kinds of mistakes all the time.


How would moving charge parrying from 0.7 second to 1.5 make Hunter more fluid?I'm not even sure why you think this is some sort of balance outlier... But to answer the question, by making the skill easier to use. I'm not sure how that doesn't equate to fluidity to you.



I hate how people eat up anything that makes them kill things faster and immediately praise Sega for it. Then you're getting mad at the wrong person. I've had problems with the gameplay and clunkyness of the classes for a long time, even before Hr.


Classes are less fun to play than ever because everything became mechanically easier, enemies didn't catch up, and the interclass balance sucks even harder.I disagree that classes are less fun to play because they function more coherently. I also disagree that interclass balance is worse. It's honestly better, every class has a place and is good in a variety of endgame content. If anything is screwed up right now, it's subclass balance, but that's honestly a separate issue.


Fluidity is only as good as enemies are able to react to it, and there is a reason why Monster Hunter has its popularity, with even MHW receiving massive complains over lack of enemy AI changes justifying moveset enhancements. That goes both ways. A lot of classes had no ways to deal with a lot of the stuff enemies can do. Monster Hunter is a very different, more strategic type of game, don't try and tell me ep1 PSO2 had the same sort of flavor for anything other than raidbosses, which had, and still have in a lot of cases, the ability to "keep up" with players.


We got double jump while Sega couldn't be bothered to make EP4 Ragne reskin have armored core or any attacks reaching a person unloading on it (just use the AQ AI). Why are these somehow mutually exclusive, or even related. Also, what does range have to do with class design? I want enemies buffed to keep up too. That doesn't change the fact that everything used to be clunkier than it needed to be.


In fact most of pre EP5 stuff has various difficulties hitting upwards but we totally needed that double jump, or wonderful dashing PAs so we can exit quests even faster and make sure any TD derivative needs no proper splitting from the players.Quests being short has WAY more to do with how many mobs are in them, how tough they are, and how much you have to do than how fast players can move.

While I agree the game has had a problem with power creep in regards to old content, a lot of the old content was either really simple, or really slow anyway, and PSO2 is clearly meant to be a faster game, which is something I enjoy about these kinds of games.

[oratank]

from the trailer their title is Shin/real,true - DF maybe it like when double ate all DF but still can't tranform themself into PD

[Meteor Weapon]

from the trailer their title is Shin/real,true - DF maybe it like when double ate all DF but still can't tranform themself into PD

Persona probably had hold back whatever Shenanigens PD has, and then Elmir become its agent to reabsorb the falzes in omega and release its true power

[SteveCZ]

Omega Profound Darkness/Greater Shadow(?)/Amplum Umbra(?) https://twitter.com/_TUKA_/status/1043698556643631105

Boss looks cool, music is cool.

I'M IN.

[Sayara]

The fact it wears masks of other falzes is really cute


Look foward to me ruining it in my art thread in the near future.

[Renvalt]

The fact it wears masks of other falzes is really cute

Talk about "Persona" swapping, eh?

.... I'll see myself out.

[final_attack]

Now I wonder if we'll need to destroy those masks to kill it ..... or the mask just showing what attacks it'll use ......
Seriously tho .... those lasers attack looks super hard to dodge >_>

[ArcaneTechs]

all falz into one and super aggressive from what we got on raids so far. i am 200% in on this boss, the gameplay looks super exciting. finally some content to look forward to. now how about that gear :wacko:

[oratank]

Talk about "Persona" swapping, eh?

.... I'll see myself out.

maybe emil was the original persona before player

[Zephyrion]

How the fuck did high level boost or all those notation boosts for everyone make them more fluid? WLs are still a horrible weapon and those needed to be more fluid. Like what was the reason for Gunner getting Another Sroll Arts besides going from best single target class to best everything class? How would moving charge parrying from 0.7 second to 1.5 make Hunter more fluid? I hate how people eat up anything that makes them kill things faster and immediately praise Sega for it. Classes are less fun to play than ever because everything became mechanically easier, enemies didn't catch up, and the interclass balance sucks even harder. Fluidity is only as good as enemies are able to react to it, and there is a reason why Monster Hunter has its popularity, with even MHW receiving massive complains over lack of enemy AI changes justifying moveset enhancements.

We got double jump while Sega couldn't be bothered to make EP4 Ragne reskin have armored core or any attacks reaching a person unloading on it (just use the AQ AI). In fact most of pre EP5 stuff has various difficulties hitting upwards but we totally needed that double jump, or wonderful dashing PAs so we can exit quests even faster and make sure any TD derivative needs no proper splitting from the players.

While I don't agree with some of the buffs we got, most of them effectively made a more even ground without breaking everything
- Dashing : seriously, wanting to go back to "be BR sub to get access to Guren or fuck off" ? because I sure as hell don't miss that era
-Stance and skill activation. Any Bouncer would tell you this is the best change in history
- First Arts and Double jump. I had the same issue with double jump at first but turns out if you look at it, vertically challenged classes still can't fight or stay in the air any better. most of the stuff still hits you at double jump height anyway, and classes that could cheese enemies by flying high didn't need double jump to do so in the first place. First Arts is properly balanced to not be exploited, it only lets you bypass normals to do it (any Ranger would tell you this vastly improved fluidity without giving some sort of unfair advantage). Most skill and skill tree buffs were also welcome changes that got

I do agree some of the power increase buffs were necessary, and that Hero damage (and only specifically that) should have been nerfed instead, but I also know a lot of the playerbase would have disliked bringing the good old nerf hammer to Hero, especially if it were to bring it to the early Ep5 nerfed state.

Also, new raid looks rad as hell ! Can't wait to get that

[isCasted]

snip

"Fluidity" doesn't mean jack shit when it's achieved at the cost of player's agency, the most important aspect of action games. You might as well be saying Easy Automatic is the superior way to play Devil May Cry games, because mashing a single button produces all the stylish combos you'd need. You might as well be saying anime is the superior form of art to videogames, because you can see all of the action by pressing a single "Play" button.

The whole point of making things more fluid is to make players feel more in control. And I don't mean "control" and in absolute control over the situation, I mean better means of engagement with the game's world. What's the point of having tons of enemies attacking you if, instead of planning your maneuvers around them, you can hold down a PA button to negate all of the incoming damage and be rewarded with a full PP bar? Those enemies might as well not be there. The game might as well not be there.

Hero might have a huge amount of block and iframes, but to actually do well you have to use riskier moves. Hero's fluidity was not achieved through infinite invulnerability, it was achieved through careful consideration of each animation - how long should each part of a PA take, how should it look, how far it should move you, how does it relate to player's input, when and what kind of freedoms should it give you etc. Quite a few of essential Hunter's PAs, Ranger's attacks and techniques have delays from the moment the player does the input to when the attack begins (for example, Sacred Skewer-T0 throw animation, Launcher's reloads on basic attacks and Divine Launcher T-0, Rafoie's cast animation), creating a huge perception of disconnect between player and the character. A fuck ton of ranged PAs have issues with camera control in TPS mode. Quite a few melee PAs have no reason to move your character away from the enemy, yet they do. This is the kind of thing they should've focused on.

You've been talking about "coherency" in how classes play? Well, here's what we got. Over End, a PA that was supposed to be the ultimate attack that rendered you vulnerable, was shit due to shit damage. It still does shit damage, but now its sole identifying element is gone, because you can just cancel it at any point. Rodeo Drive T-0 now has a turning radius of 0, but its animation hasn't changed at all; it doesn't lean on turns (you know, like motorcycles and jets), so it looks and feels like shit, despite practicality and decent damage. Same thing's about Asagiri - at its old speed it simply felt right, now it's just uncanny. If they at least gave it a bunch of sparkles at the start of the animation and on turns, or maybe made a camera go to the enemy before the character to give it a more cinematic feel, it'd feel so much more satisfying. DB's weapon-defining throwing blade gimmick is still vastly inferior to Hero's sword, despite adjustments. S-Roll Arts render everything else useless, yet S-Roll itself feels like ass to use with its small range and heavily restricted maneuverability, which is a sin for a class that usually prided for its mobility. If S-Roll allowed you to somewhat freely "slide" around during its execution, like in Bayonetta or Nier Automata, it would be the sickest shit. WLs are still utter ass, as it's been said before, and making them deal more damage only makes players have to deal with their asinine design much more often. Man, I could go on...

Yes, we did get some actually good changes (had to wait way too long for some of the best ones, like First JA and some skill rings becoming defaults, though), but the other shallow buffs simply overshadow them, as the game ultimately feels way less like an action game and more like a glorified rhythm game with ridiculously long input windows.

[XrosBlader821]

S-Roll Arts render everything else useless, yet S-Roll itself feels like ass to use with its small range and heavily restricted maneuverability, which is a sin for a class that usually prided for its mobility.

Gunner? Gunner was being praised by it's mobility? By who? Gunner for the longest time was just a Burst machine. Even back in the day people would S-Roll into Namegid simply because S-Roll JA was a massive 200% boost, instead of just 110% Front S-Roll wasn't even a thing before EP4 and Grim barrage only went forward like 2 steps before starting to shoot. What a mobile class.

Also if we're gonna talk about fluidity we have to look no further than what Sega is releasing soon for Bows and Jet Boots. These are mechanical improvements, not just numbers being turned up. I personally hope more weapons, like Wands, WL etc will see such improvements in the future but these things obviously take time.

[final_attack]

S-Roll Arts render everything else useless

Kinda funny for a class that reached "Gu X" in some party description back then :lol:
Was the first class that reached that level of treatment ...... wasn't it? :lol:

Oh, and ..... " Arks Live " hosted by Ichitaro usually contains info regarding future balance / patch / content wasn't it?
I wonder if it'll take about 2018 winter in roadmap or the XH free field ....
There's one on Oct 6th at 2000 JST

[vantpers]

CUT

First of all we still got the numbers needlessly to make sure enemy effective HP is even worse than before. Second would be that Sroll Arts might be oversight or whatever but that does show that Sega can't patch their oversights nowadays like they did with Meteor Cudgel infinite winds in EP3, and a new class is even more opportunity for oversights that transform into all around buffs for everyone which can become yet more oversights.

And no, easy to use != fluid. Those examples were to show that Sega precisely didn't touch class fluidity with their anti hero buffs. Hunter could have Nova Strike finally fixed to be at least cancellable or move you a bit horizontally, but nope, have charge parrying buff that just kinda lets you hold your charge longer if you see enemy attack instead of blocking. WL managed to get jackshit to fix its huge dependence on tanking hits because Other Cyclone and Holding Current both do amazing damage and are clunky uncancellable PAs on a class that can make itself semi-immortal with proper build and no real DPS loss.

I also can't see how classes have their place nowadays. Hunter/Bouncer/Braver all do the same shit of being full HP classes with strong defensive skills that hit things in melee sans the bow. Bouncer fields are still a joke too. Fighter is different from the three by just being better, and also having to work with 25% hp, which is constantly fixed by making LB not kill you or by defence stacking and Iron Will. Gunner now after it learned to mob makes all of those irrelevant because it has better AoE, similar safety even as /Fi, and incredible DPS. Techer amazingly still has one place per MPA and any more is useless. I mean you can just look at Sega's slides about class roles. All rounder with a bit of support, all rounder, UNIVERSAL, ranged DPS, melee DPS, it's all the same shit. All rounders just do DPS, universal just does DPS, DPS just does DPS but is also supposed to be better at it than all rounders that offer nothing more. Sega by trying to make game more "fluid"" just removes even the small differences like mobbing/bossing orientation between classes.

I don't see how classes weren't able to deal with enemies pre EP5. Force in EP4 alone got many mobility buffs. Ranger got what exact fixes in EP5 to help its reliance on Super Armor and HP? Even then when you think of what classes couldn't handle you can only think in solo terms in a multiplayer game, and solo quest ideas of KMR can fuck themselves.

[Kondibon]

"Fluidity" doesn't mean jack shit when it's achieved at the cost of player's agency, the most important aspect of action games. You might as well be saying Easy Automatic is the superior way to play Devil May Cry games, because mashing a single button produces all the stylish combos you'd need. You might as well be saying anime is the superior form of art to videogames, because you can see all of the action by pressing a single "Play" button.

The whole point of making things more fluid is to make players feel more in control. And I don't mean "control" and in absolute control over the situation, I mean better means of engagement with the game's world. What's the point of having tons of enemies attacking you if, instead of planning your maneuvers around them, you can hold down a PA button to negate all of the incoming damage and be rewarded with a full PP bar? Those enemies might as well not be there. The game might as well not be there.

Hero might have a huge amount of block and iframes, but to actually do well you have to use riskier moves. Hero's fluidity was not achieved through infinite invulnerability, it was achieved through careful consideration of each animation - how long should each part of a PA take, how should it look, how far it should move you, how does it relate to player's input, when and what kind of freedoms should it give you etc. Quite a few of essential Hunter's PAs, Ranger's attacks and techniques have delays from the moment the player does the input to when the attack begins (for example, Sacred Skewer-T0 throw animation, Launcher's reloads on basic attacks and Divine Launcher T-0, Rafoie's cast animation), creating a huge perception of disconnect between player and the character. A fuck ton of ranged PAs have issues with camera control in TPS mode. Quite a few melee PAs have no reason to move your character away from the enemy, yet they do. This is the kind of thing they should've focused on.

You've been talking about "coherency" in how classes play? Well, here's what we got. Over End, a PA that was supposed to be the ultimate attack that rendered you vulnerable, was shit due to shit damage. It still does shit damage, but now its sole identifying element is gone, because you can just cancel it at any point. Rodeo Drive T-0 now has a turning radius of 0, but its animation hasn't changed at all; it doesn't lean on turns (you know, like motorcycles and jets), so it looks and feels like shit, despite practicality and decent damage. Same thing's about Asagiri - at its old speed it simply felt right, now it's just uncanny. If they at least gave it a bunch of sparkles at the start of the animation and on turns, or maybe made a camera go to the enemy before the character to give it a more cinematic feel, it'd feel so much more satisfying. DB's weapon-defining throwing blade gimmick is still vastly inferior to Hero's sword, despite adjustments. S-Roll Arts render everything else useless, yet S-Roll itself feels like ass to use with its small range and heavily restricted maneuverability, which is a sin for a class that usually prided for its mobility. If S-Roll allowed you to somewhat freely "slide" around during its execution, like in Bayonetta or Nier Automata, it would be the sickest shit. WLs are still utter ass, as it's been said before, and making them deal more damage only makes players have to deal with their asinine design much more often. Man, I could go on...

Yes, we did get some actually good changes (had to wait way too long for some of the best ones, like First JA and some skill rings becoming defaults, though), but the other shallow buffs simply overshadow them, as the game ultimately feels way less like an action game and more like a glorified rhythm game with ridiculously long input windows.I'm too tired to respond to this all individually, but I will say, I tried to make it clear that S-roll is a problem. SEGA had made bad decisions that led to outliers like S-roll before hero came out, hero didn't cause S-Roll arts to be busted anymore than it caused Shunka, or Maron to be.

My entire argument was that none of the changes made in response to hero except maybe the raw damage creep were BAD. They were at worst not enough in the right places. Obviously the game balance isn't perfect, but they're moving in the right direction, and as far as I'm concerned things are still better than they used to be.

[AVO]

TLDR: SEGA is a small indie company and thus they have to slap band aids onto band aids to fix class problems with fluidity and mobility. Gee guys why are we arguing all of this again.

[Jene-chan]

the one thing that a lot of you are forgetting is that the semi-hardcore/hardcore player is not the target audience for the game adjustments. i agree with most of the points about the game rn - i feel power creep has gone too far and a lot of the content in the game has lost tension because it literally can't keep up with the current power, either damage or mobility-wise. we were at that point honestly at the end of ep4.

thing is, as with most playerbases, the majority of players are not good. gunner seems to be a common target for longtime players to identify as being the best class in the game, but whenever i encounter gunners in random mpas (even under expert), they're really bad. if gunner was so easy and strong, a lot more people would be playing it (ep5 hero launch). the thing is, outside of the initial nerf train at the start of ep5 and fixing some things that were actually broken (marron rail gun), they havent been nerfing anything which makes the game more fun/accessible for newer players.

i 100% agree that the power creep has gone too far and honestly i dont see them walking any of it back since the general player is still pretty weak and they want to give them more tools to succeed in the game than worrying about delivering challenging content/good balance to the hardcore players.

i really don't see s roll arts or gunner in general being nerfed. from all the streams where they talk about current content clear rates/compositions, they seem to be fine with gunner being in that list all the time. you also realize gunner is getting a slight buff this coming week in the reduction of zra2 from 10 points to 5 meaning we can possibly spec into more damage off s roll? if anything, i would expect them to try to make all the other classes more bonkers from 85 -> 90 to match the level of power they gave gunner from 80->85.

[Renvalt]

maybe emil was the original persona before player

Whoosh. Right over your cranium.

[Dugs]

The game might as well not be there.

HYPERBOLE ALERT, HYPERBOLE ALERT!


I don't see how classes weren't able to deal with enemies pre EP5. Force in EP4 alone got many mobility buffs. Ranger got what exact fixes in EP5 to help its reliance on Super Armor and HP? Even then when you think of what classes couldn't handle you can only think in solo terms in a multiplayer game, and solo quest ideas of KMR can fuck themselves.

Well, considering you're telling people to go fuck themselves, I am very sure you will be willing to accept any and all counter arguments and not instantly say "no fuck you, you're wrong, fucking shill"


TLDR: SEGA is a small indie company and thus they have to slap band aids onto band aids to fix class problems with fluidity and mobility. Gee guys why are we arguing all of this again.

No they are a company that has no foresight. Why the fuck do people keep calling them a "small indie company" when they are actually just dumb?

[AVO]

HYPERBOLE ALERT, HYPERBOLE ALERT!



Well, considering you're telling people to go fuck themselves, I am very sure you will be willing to accept any and all counter arguments and not instantly say "no fuck you, you're wrong, fucking shill"



No they are a company that has no foresight. Why the fuck do people keep calling them a "small indie company" when they are actually just dumb?

Its a joke. It takes them forever to implement simple features like multi tek and add stuff like aq for harko which prompts the small indie company that can only do this many things at once.

[vantpers]

Well, considering you're telling people to go fuck themselves, I am very sure you will be willing to accept any and all counter arguments and not instantly say "no fuck you, you're wrong, fucking shill"

There is nothing wrong with saying that Kimura can go fuck himself with forcing solo quests in a multiplayer game. Even then all those quests were done by Techer and Ranger with less or more pain. But I guess it's also playerbase that's half at fault here, that we need to gatekeep players out of easy multiplayer quests with harder singeplayer quests because other players not only want to finish their easy quests, but also do it fast so that they can cram 5 runs on 5 different ships in a single EQ.



Thing is, as with most playerbases, the majority of players are not good. gunner seems to be a common target for longtime players to identify as being the best class in the game, but whenever i encounter gunners in random mpas (even under expert), they're really bad. if gunner was so easy and strong, a lot more people would be playing it (ep5 hero launch). the thing is, outside of the initial nerf train at the start of ep5 and fixing some things that were actually broken (marron rail gun), they havent been nerfing anything which makes the game more fun/accessible for newer players.

But most players that are bad with Gunner would also be bad with other classes. It's further compounded by the fact that Gunner unlocks the OP skill at level 85, which is just bad power jump design, and you need to suddenly switch from Gu/Hu to Gu/Fi to take advantage of it. Similar bad design exists with LBI. Why is it a level 85 skill? Why can't novice Fighters take advantage of safety nets? Even newer or weaker players deserve to be challenged sometimes, I see new players commonly ask when the game is getting challenging too.

I am also well aware of Sega not teasing to do anything about Gunner, and the SP buff is honestly pretty irrelevant. Level 90 also is confirmed not to contain new skills unless I got misinformed.

[Anduril]

Persona probably had hold back whatever Shenanigens PD has, and then Elmir become its agent to reabsorb the falzes in omega and release its true power

Or maybe it was all a ploy to purge the Falz hosts from [Persona] to become "pure;" maybe the hosts were somehow preventing [PD] from exerting full control over [Persona] due to their consciousnesses still being intact inside him/her.

[Zephyrion]

~snip.

Not disagreeing with most of this except the Hero deal. Hero has been designed as god mode, on which you just slap a raw multiplier loss for trying to abuse it. I'm definitely not calling that good design. I much prefer a class with actual weaknesses tied to weapon or PAs, and deal with said weakness by actually learning the class,instead of a class you get good at very quickly with only a single "wall" you try to avoid over and over again(I don't consider Hero Time management as an actual barrier for playing it)

You also only take classes that have major fluidity issues left untouched to compare it to but classes like Force, Fighter and Braver all have a great flow going while not impairing your power in artificial ways. I'd also argue things like Sacred Skewer and tech delays actually add impact rather than remove some. If I'm throwing a damn Gungnir and making meteor falls, I actually "feel" better if there is a delay that suggests strength (even if said action is not that strong in actuality). Something that Hero lacks in my opinion, by achieving actual strength at the cost of variety and quirkiness. It could be a good identity trait if Hero is the only one like that, but with the success it had, I think coming classes will be similar and this will lose its edge


But most players that are bad with Gunner would also be bad with other classes. It's further compounded by the fact that Gunner unlocks the OP skill at level 85, which is just bad power jump design, and you need to suddenly switch from Gu/Hu to Gu/Fi to take advantage of it. Similar bad design exists with LBI. Why is it a level 85 skill? Why can't novice Fighters take advantage of safety nets? Even newer or weaker players deserve to be challenged sometimes, I see new players commonly ask when the game is getting challenging too.

I am also well aware of Sega not teasing to do anything about Gunner, and the SP buff is honestly pretty irrelevant. Level 90 also is confirmed not to contain new skills unless I got misinformed.

except it's wrong, some players simply don't know that S-roll is superior to other mobbing PAs, therefore probably not skilling it, like people thinking LBI is good, and shooting themselves in the foot for actually skilling it. unlike Hero, there is a big "knowledge" dimension. You can only abuse S-roll if you know how abusable it can be. As to why SEGA is not doing anything, it's because of their usual bad approach a.k.a emergency patch only if something is breaking the game in such a significant way that it ought to disappear a.s.a.p. When all is said and done S-Roll Arts is not particularly broken on its own. it's the amount of return for the effort invested, coupled with the fact it exists as a tool for a class that has fucking chain trigger as a skill. Similarly to SU/GU they are VERY likely to actually look at that stuff when EP6 rolls.

[vantpers]

except it's wrong, some players simply don't know that S-roll is superior to other mobbing PAs, therefore probably not skilling it, like people thinking LBI is good, and shooting themselves in the foot for actually skilling it. unlike Hero, there is a big "knowledge" dimension. You can only abuse S-roll if you know how abusable it can be. As to why SEGA is not doing anything, it's because of their usual bad approach a.k.a emergency patch only if something is breaking the game in such a significant way that it ought to disappear a.s.a.p. When all is said and done S-Roll Arts is not particularly broken on its own. it's the amount of return for the effort invested, coupled with the fact it exists as a tool for a class that has fucking chain trigger as a skill. Similarly to SU/GU they are VERY likely to actually look at that stuff when EP6 rolls.

How is it wrong? I don't see why a player wouldn't take a free skill with no demerit. LBI as far as I know is also often taken in spite of cooldown, just because it's not always that you get instant moon atomizer on you, and not always that solo quest even allows dying, and it's also one of the reason why is shouldn't be available at level 85 when you're good at Fighter and actually worry about your DPS so much. Another part is that knowledge of class shouldn't be taken into account when balancing. It's an action game, you shouldn't reward players for reading someone's guide more than you reward them for using their motor skills. X main switching to Gu/Fi to get Endless title is a plague because the knowledge barrier is easily broken by just copying someone's loadout.

Also S-roll Arts is very very broken on its own. It has huge vertical hitbox and a class that should stay in the air meaning you never have to endanger yourself during mobbing, headshots hit themselves, the AoE is huge, it's used by spamming a dodge ability with big invincibility window only sometimes broken with sataim cancel, and it does good DPS in spite of all that. Compare it to for example using Sword on Hunter where Nova Strike has worse DPS, worse AoE, small vertical range, guard frames only lasting until you release it then locking you into vulnerable animation, no big vertical range.

[Jene-chan]

How is it wrong? I don't see why a player wouldn't take a free skill with no demerit. LBI as far as I know is also often taken in spite of cooldown, just because it's not always that you get instant moon atomizer on you, and not always that solo quest even allows dying, and it's also one of the reason why is shouldn't be available at level 85 when you're good at Fighter and actually worry about your DPS so much. Another part is that knowledge of class shouldn't be taken into account when balancing. It's an action game, you shouldn't reward players for reading someone's guide more than you reward them for using their motor skills. X main switching to Gu/Fi to get Endless title is a plague because the knowledge barrier is easily broken by just copying someone's loadout.

Also S-roll Arts is very very broken on its own. It has huge vertical hitbox and a class that should stay in the air meaning you never have to endanger yourself during mobbing, headshots hit themselves, the AoE is huge, it's used by spamming a dodge ability with big invincibility window only sometimes broken with sataim cancel, and it does good DPS in spite of all that. Compare it to for example using Sword on Hunter where Nova Strike has worse DPS, worse AoE, small vertical range, guard frames only lasting until you release it then locking you into vulnerable animation, no big vertical range.

career fighters don't even take limit break insurance. fighter players bank on triggering IW if they get hit because the cooldown increase on LBI compounds over time which results in a larger net dps loss. most fighters dont even take automate on their trees anymore, man.

re: s roll arts, yes, it's an extremely strong skill, but gunner has ALWAYS operated in the air and out of harm's way. like, since ep3, this is nothing new. when phaleg dropped in ep4, i beat her in less than 30 minutes of it dropping by flying in the sky and raining chains and elder rebellions down on her ignoring 90% of what she was doing. also, gunner is still one of the least played classes in the game. that doesn't change the power level of s roll arts, but it's not a problem you encounter often. hardcore players ALWAYS change things up when the damage tiers get shifted. it's happened before with braver, force and hero. gunner and s roll arts isn't the plague you think it is. it really doesn't even affect you in 10% of the mpa content you do.

the path they seem to be going on is to continue to make classes extremely strong. don't be surprised if another class gets an s-roll arts level skill at lv90 cap. i'm honestly banking on it. again, it makes the game more approachable for newer and less skilled players and they're the ones that pay the bills.

for strong players, it makes the game too easy for 80% of the game but for the general player, it makes the game actually playable. i don't really like how this has turned out but you really can't walk this back after doing all of this unless they announce a huge number crunch for ep6 or something.

i will say, omega pd (or true falz i suppose) actually looks kinda interesting. i have a glimmer of hope. i just hope that they don't pull the omega loser and make him hit like a wet noodle. i also hope (and sorta assume) that this is where aus nt will come in and i hope that other than the nem nt/slave nt requirements, there really isn't any 13*/14* drop rng required to get aus nt.

[vantpers]

I fail to see it address any points. Gunner operates in the air but it also means it should have incentives to operate within enemy attack's range or pay in raw power for that. Sroll brings the air cheese even further and it's one of the reasons why it should be removed, especially since the entire point of big mob packs or multiple bosses is their attack saturation, and the entire skill makes it a joke while being gigantic AoE. You should also refresh your knowledge of class split in game.

https://i.imgur.com/eekyS9W.png

There is about 60% chance there is a Gunner in your MPA, and one Gunner makes any level 80 spawn in Ultimate Lilipa disappear. Making some classes more overpowered than other classes makes it worse for new players since they are still expected to be compared to good players playing overpowered classes, while at the same time generally playing the average class. In fact fuck that shit. Weaker players in the game are always bullied regardless of how easy the content is because the entire game is full of Time Attack cancer and rush mentality. It's unfixable unless Sega removes the entire EQ system that promotes it and timers everywhere.

[Dark Mits]

i 100% agree that the power creep has gone too far and honestly i dont see them walking any of it back since the general player is still pretty weak and they want to give them more tools to succeed in the game than worrying about delivering challenging content/good balance to the hardcore players.This is the point I'd like to comment on, since for me it is the greatest reason for the current situation of the gameplay.

Unfortunately every single developer thinks that the best/only viable way to close the gap between the lower and upper echelons of the playerbase is to simply give buffs and new tools to everyone. This has the unwanted (?) effect that the better players are simply given even more tools, while the worse players are not really able to use them to such great extent. This in turn means that the new tools implemented to help the worse players end up helping the better players significantly more.

Instead, Sega should aim to change the gameplay so that executing everything near-perfectly still yields the best results, but the effectiveness/reward gap between bad use and good use of those tools is not that huge. You can't have an enemy deal an attack for 1500 damage, and then give players the option to simply double-tap and avoid all 1500 points, especially when this double-tap has no opportunity cost and no resource cost. If dodging was replaced with blocking for example, the better players would still actively try to block everything, but now the difference between perfect and average playstyle would be smaller.

And on a similar tangent, imagine if damage didn't increase linearly or multiplicatively with higher player stats but instead logarithmically. So getting more attack would still bring the best results, but the difference would become smaller and smaller the more stats a player has.

[Jene-chan]

gunner /does/ have incentives for getting close range -- they have huge multipliers that work only in the zero distance range. it's where you get your best damage. they also get good damage from a range since sega has decided they needed to be able to do that as well.

you complain about gunner making spawns in ult lilipa disappear, but pretty much ALL classes can do that at this point - the enemies in ult lilipa just don't have a lot of hp and aren't scaled up. s roll arts is the best mobbing tool in the game sure, but is mobbing really content you want to drag on? most people hate mobbing and just want to get to the bosses and honestly, this game isn't setup to have mobs be single encounters of merit. seriously, who actually cares about mobbing?

you also act like gunner is this king class that sits above all, and yes, it's very good right now, but hero, fighter, braver, bouncer and ranger can put out similar dps on bosses if the classes are played well. i'm not the strongest gunner player by far, but i constantly top mpa parses for bosses and it's not uncommon for a hero or a fighter to catch me or surpass me on certain bosses if im rolling solo. gunner is not so far above every other class that it's free wins.

the eq system is baked into the core of this game and isn't going away. on a live stream they even acknowledged that the majority of players play this game for time attack, be it doing the actual time attack quests, time attacking boss eqs, or trying to get maximum runs in a seasonal eq.

[vantpers]

ZRA in mobbing isn't proper incentive since mobs are spread out and you can only trigger it on so many of them, and either way you can still float above lots of attacks while triggering it.

All classes can kill spawns, especially multiple Force with illfoie, but Gunner takes cake in affecting other people in pugs with how it has the most AoE and on top of that range so you actually often won't get to touch mobs. Mobs are also the actual hard part of the game, since any single boss can be just ez pez parried/dodge into oblivion, and their hard mechanics rely on making boss fight a mobbing like fight by using multiple damage sources for their attacks (think Anga bits, Mother arms, Deus snake heads, PD parts). Bunch of mobs mixed with up to three bosses/minibosses is the hardest mechanically content in the game just because there are many more damage sources with ability to hit you than anywhere else, and your blocking/dodging ability gets hindered by the limits of your situational awareness. Gunner and actually many more things in the game though simplify it by some way to skip the whole active damage avoidance part and just concentrate on spamming AoE.

Also lol. No way Braver and Bouncer can match Gunner DPS. Actually even Hero wouldn't be able to at same skill level. In fact if we take Endless clear rate into account Hero did have like nice 18% of all clears but it's also class that's massively overrepresented in the playerbase.

>actual time attack quests
Because they put free money there for doing them. Nobody liked TACOs.
>time attacking boss eqs
Because they put it there as content. You can't do solo PD without also time attacking it, or any XQ. Even PD had those dumb rankings at the end of who cleared the fastest, so actually if you ever done multiplayer PD you also time attacked it.
>get maximum runs in a season eq.
Because there is incentive for it

[Atmius]

fighter players bank on triggering IW if they get hit because the cooldown increase on LBI compounds over time
It only increases over time if you proc it every time you use LB, otherwise it resets back to the standard cooldown period after a successful natural LB finish where you didn't proc it.

[Jene-chan]

you do realize there are communities of players that work on specifically working down the times on time attack quests
you do realize there are tons of players that solo mpa bosses for time attack
you do realize that literally the only thing different about gunner lv80 and lv85 is that they're not shit at mobbing
you do realize that hero executed properly can outperform a solo gunner in most cases since gunner peaks best when with party members (gu gu ra te) whereas hero doesnt require that
you do realize that on certain bosses, braver/ranger/bouncer can keep pace with (and sometimes exceed) gunner
you do realize that playing gunner in endless isn't a free instant win for solo one lap (it's easier than doing it on other classes for sure)
you do realize that other classes have ways of invalidating the danger of a pack of mobs with mini-bosses thrown in
you do realize that i mentioned zra as an incentive to get close for bosses/mini-bosses aka the things you actually give a damn about

im assuming you do realize of of this right

[Kiboune]

Chances are low, but I hope we will get kunais as daggers camo from Persona 4 collab

[Zephyrion]

It only increases over time if you proc it every time you use LB, otherwise it resets back to the standard cooldown period after a successful natural LB finish where you didn't proc it.

The skill has tons of issues still, for once 20 seconds just for one fail is quite hilarious regardless, where both Lumiere and half dolls can bail you out TWICE on a single quest, provided you didn't get lucky with IW which is often more than you'll ever need, save for very lengthy content or dragon rematch if you're not too familiar with it/tired/unlucky/ insert excuse for eating the dirt.
Speaking of Lumiere, LB insurance hilariously rolls BEFORE Lumiere, meaning it completely invalidates the point of the potential.
Not saying LBI is utter trash, more like it has far too many demerits and places it actually weigh on you more than it helps, so unless you're willing to do a LBI tree for a specific set of quests, it's a pretty shaky skill overall.


Chances are low, but I hope we will get kunais as daggers camo from Persona 4 collab

I'm praying the gods to get tons of Yosuke related stuff, be it the hairstyle, kunais or headphone. may fashion gods hear my plea xD

[AVO]

Instead, Sega should aim to change the gameplay so that executing everything near-perfectly still yields the best results, but the effectiveness/reward gap between bad use and good use of those tools is not that huge. You can't have an enemy deal an attack for 1500 damage, and then give players the option to simply double-tap and avoid all 1500 points, especially when this double-tap has no opportunity cost and no resource cost. If dodging was replaced with blocking for example, the better players would still actively try to block everything, but now the difference between perfect and average playstyle would be smaller.



Have you tried playing hu,br,fo? Because stepping actually have an opportunity cost compared to parrying. In fact, gunner and hero getting hit by that amount of damage will end up costing them their multis.

[Zorak000]

sroll arts a.mode is lame because if they wanted gunner to be better at fighting crowds, they should have focused more on buffing it's AoE PAs. heck even give stuff like shift period a damage boost for hitting things outside of ZRA just to compensate for targets being outside of ZRA's range; as long as it doenst somehow become better IN zero range advance vs single targets.

a lot of pre-EP3 PAs got balance and conceptual issues just because pscrew focused on doing cool stuff with the weapons, seemingly without much thought put into overlap or practicality; not to mention how the game was much much slower back then too. That's more than likely why Bouncer weapons got fewer PAs than the other weapon types, they focused more on making sure there were as little redundancies as possible.

anyway; the one thing I can take away from s.roll a.mode is that it gave me some insight into what the original intention of the s.roll up/arts skills were supposed to be: a way for gunner to keep it'd DPS up while building chain trigger, but a lot of that idea gets invalidated when you have party members to help out; especially other party members with tmgs.

what I think they should do is just kill SP entirely and make all of the skills free but locked behind class level gates; just make sure all of the current skills are available by like level 70 or 75. sure that would invalidate people buying multiple skill trees, but it solves a lot of the "bad skill" problems on a lot of the trees. can't have a bad skill if there's no reason to -not- take it. and other benefits would include things like Fighter and hunter mains being able to actually use both of their stances

[dont_talk_to_me]

A thread about TGS devolving into nonsense about the games shitty balance. If its such a problem just play hu/fi so everything is marginally more annoying. Or use shitty gear to simulate balanced enemy strength. Otherwise, no point complaining since this is a game made with a casual audience in mind. Players who just want to spend $$$ to dress up their character so they can get boners while they play with sega fully complicit since it makes them big bucks, just to wait 6 months for the smallest of changes.

In a macroscopic sense this game isn't that poorly balanced, but just try to solo guides of creation/endless on any class you want.

[GHNeko]

this thread went to shit jesus christ :wacko:

[Zorak000]

oh right so uh, if we're fighting a giant torso

and this has that same torso but with legs:
https://puu.sh/ByXBz/5dc3514753.jpg

does that mean we're getting a re-imagined olga flow 2 fight?

[ArcaneTechs]

But I guess it's also playerbase that's half at fault here, that we need to gatekeep players out of easy multiplayer quests with harder singeplayer quests because other players not only want to finish their easy quests, but also do it fast so that they can cram 5 runs on 5 different ships in a single EQ.

imagine being so casual that you feel the need to be angry because YOU cant tackle quests that expect you to KNOW how to play your class. So you try the new solo XQ a few times, cant get pass Deus then rage quit (or get carried by others therefore allowing you to never actually get better) because you refuse to learn to "git gud" and play your class at your best, even if its just for that one clear.

They should have made the 6mill solo XQ title a requirement, would benefit the people who are competent with their class get better quality runs than those who just spam BNS on everything including bosses. Hell make the last solo XQ the req instead or something


oh right so uh, if we're fighting a giant torso

and this has that same torso but with legs:
https://puu.sh/ByXBz/5dc3514753.jpg

does that mean we're getting a re-imagined olga flow 2 fight?
god i hope Olga Flow makes a return

[Lostbob117]

The Mini Suit Request Election better have Kakwane Suit Mini

[Zorak000]

igod i hope Olga Flow makes a return
fighting olga flow, or something like that, but now in a game where we can actually jump

that's all I've ever wanted

the weird scaffolding mechanic they had in psp2/i doesnt count.

EDIT: oh right a friend of mine pointed out, the full body in the silhouette might just be the humanoid/hunar we fight in 5-6, with the main fight happening in December.

[milranduil]

you do realize that literally the only thing different about gunner lv80 and lv85 is that they're not shit at mobbing
one of the many reasons sroll is so strong is that it can be used at very low pp cost to build chain while vastly increasing DPS compared to normal attacks. combine that with if whatever you are chaining has added mobs around it (endless) will die WHILE you prep your chain.

you do realize that hero executed properly can outperform a solo gunner in most cases since gunner peaks best when with party members (gu gu ra te) whereas hero doesnt require that
if this were true, hero would have better raid solo times/endless score than gu which is horrendously inaccurate.

you do realize that on certain bosses, braver/ranger/bouncer can keep pace with (and sometimes exceed) gunner
isolated cases at best, the norm is far from the truth here.

you do realize that playing gunner in endless isn't a free instant win for solo one lap (it's easier than doing it on other classes for sure)
you literally contradicted yourself in a single sentence

you do realize that other classes have ways of invalidating the danger of a pack of mobs with mini-bosses thrown in
none compare to sroll arts besides perhaps compounds or 9hit maron, and those have a 120 second cooldown or require hyper aggressive spawns which are not nearly always the case, particularly in a pug setting.

there is a reason gunner is sitting around with 2lap clear + 5-10 stages into lap3 when soloing, while all other classes at best struggle to get to third or fourth interval in lap2 with god rng and ares buffs at best.

[Jene-chan]

if this were true, hero would have better raid solo times/endless score than gu which is horrendously inaccurate.

when i said solo, i meant as a solo player not in a party in an mpa boss like omega loser/mother/deus. if you're in the middle of a chain and the boss phases, you can lose a lot of damage where other classes don't have to worry about that as much (e.g. fighter or hero). obviously, it's just because you don't have direct control over the phasing of a fight. sometimes you start to chain a part and it just breaks before you can pop it. i know full well that in solo boss mpa kills, gunner has the fastest times. i worded it poorly and honestly the entire scenario i was trying to explain is kinda pointless anyway because it's in a 12 person mpa lol

[milranduil]

when i said solo, i meant as a solo player not in a party in an mpa boss like omega loser/mother/deus. if you're in the middle of a chain and the boss phases, you can lose a lot of damage where other classes don't have to worry about that as much (e.g. fighter or hero). obviously, it's just because you don't have direct control over the phasing of a fight. sometimes you start to chain a part and it just breaks before you can pop it. i know full well that in solo boss mpa kills, gunner has the fastest times. i worded it poorly and honestly the entire scenario i was trying to explain is kinda pointless anyway because it's in a 12 person mpa lol

i'm aware of what you meant. if you use a chain when a boss is close to phasing, that has nothing to do with the class. it means you don't know hp thresholds.

[ArcaneTechs]

i'm aware of what you meant. if you use a chain when a boss is close to phasing, that has nothing to do with the class. it means you don't know hp thresholds.
gotta be on that fast side of serpents during Deus so your CT doesnt get interrupted :wacko:

but with what you said can also be applied to Hero Time, all about the dmg thresholds and just general timings

[Zephyrion]

oh right so uh, if we're fighting a giant torso

and this has that same torso but with legs:
https://puu.sh/ByXBz/5dc3514753.jpg

does that mean we're getting a re-imagined olga flow 2 fight?

Wooooow I just noticed it, but the resemblance to Olga Flow is definitely right there. I hope it's true because the mechanics of the original fight were pretty much not made for the original PSO (like the whole familiar killing deal on top of tanking huge swipes and ceiling crumbling on you) but with some work, it could fit PSO2 gameplay perfectly . Here's to hoping it's not just the final Hunar that just happens to resemble Olga Flow.

[Saffran]

While I don't agree with some of the buffs we got, most of them effectively made a more even ground without breaking everything
- Dashing : seriously, wanting to go back to "be BR sub to get access to Guren or fuck off" ? because I sure as hell don't miss that era
-Stance and skill activation. Any Bouncer would tell you this is the best change in history
- First Arts and Double jump.

I know it's so yesterday but I wanted to react to this.
Dashing: make Guren and Asagiri unspammable. Presto, you don't have a class that can teleport through a map in 20 seconds and other classes don't get jealous and ask for the same crap to be implemented. (I'm looking at you Wand PA)
Quite seriously, running should be the fastest option available, at all times. Running is the thing you do when you gotta go fast and get somewhere. It makes no sense that somehow, running is slower than just about any sequence of PA.
Have PAs do some special moves and allow to reach higher places/avoid traps, sure. No problem with that. But make them unspammable. You want to move fast from one point to another? Run. Don't go dash-jump-dash-dash-PA-LA cancel on an autoword and spam. Fuck that.
Stance and skill activation: I haven't tried it yet but I have never taken any of those BO secific skills precisely because activating and managing them looked like a huge hassle. I feel like this is a rwal quality of life improvement.
First Art: look at you skill tree, place points in step advance, unlock step attack, there you go. You had first arts since day one, you were just too lazy. Fuck whoever requested that.
Double Jump: Boots user be like "erm...". It was their entire shtick. It never got used properly, sure, but it was their entire shtick.

[Zorak000]

Yeah they are kinda stuck in a bit of a design hole here. You got Emergency Quests that put everybody on a 30 minute timer to clear it without entering the quest's failure state, or to clear it as many times+reach the clear limit before the half hour ends. Then you got the fact that you are generally stuck with the people in the block you are currently in, or more importantly, you CANNOT join any joinable MPAs in blocks that are either full (non-premium) or doublefull (premium). Multi-block matching still gets blocked if there is a joinable MPA in a full or doublefull block, leaving both the person looking for an MPA and the joinable MPA out in the dark. Meanwhile, the half-hour time limit to begin the quest means they cannot rely on a queue system, much less a queue system that could filter people by class/role.

Hence why I assume they have been trying to make every class more independent for DPS output, since we cannot control who is in our parties and MPAs without organizing in advance. While making weapon types cover their own weaknesses better means people can focus on their favorite weapons more, it also feels like its making everything more generic. like, I'm happy for the people who REALLY want to use a single weapon type, but as somebody who likes using the best tool for the situation, it's kinda leaving me feeling a bit empty since the choice hardly matters. Not to mention, this also a blow to people who enjoy supporting roles (healing/buffing/debuffing/tanking), since if everybody can operate independently, they'll feel that they aren't much of a contribution to the effort. That's been a feeling I've noticed building up more and more over time with a good chunk of my friends who main hunter or techer almost exclusively.

you could say "well that's just how the game is", but the issue is that the game still gives people the option to create a support-based build, even if all it does is make them slow the MPA down, especially if there is another player in the MPA with the same build (mainly looking at the problem facing multiple techers in an MPA here).

About the only options they seem to have about this kind of thing are:
1a.) Make MPA instances independent of lobby instances
1b.) Change EQ availability; either make them available a lot longer, or expand the EQ trigger format
1c.) If content requires a specific amount of support skills in the MPA; implement a system to reserve space in the MPA instance for somebody with one or all of those skills.

2.) make everybody hard dps lmao

[Zorak000]

I know it's so yesterday but I wanted to react to this.
Dashing: make Guren and Asagiri unspammable. Presto, you don't have a class that can teleport through a map in 20 seconds and other classes don't get jealous and ask for the same crap to be implemented. (I'm looking at you Wand PA)
Quite seriously, running should be the fastest option available, at all times. Running is the thing you do when you gotta go fast and get somewhere. It makes no sense that somehow, running is slower than just about any sequence of PA.
Have PAs do some special moves and allow to reach higher places/avoid traps, sure. No problem with that. But make them unspammable. You want to move fast from one point to another? Run. Don't go dash-jump-dash-dash-PA-LA cancel on an autoword and spam. Fuck that.
Stance and skill activation: I haven't tried it yet but I have never taken any of those BO secific skills precisely because activating and managing them looked like a huge hassle. I feel like this is a rwal quality of life improvement.
First Art: look at you skill tree, place points in step advance, unlock step attack, there you go. You had first arts since day one, you were just too lazy. Fuck whoever requested that.
Double Jump: Boots user be like "erm...". It was their entire shtick. It never got used properly, sure, but it was their entire shtick.
movement: I mostly agree, though I find that bullet jumping in Warframe is really fun, so maybe there's a truth somewhere in the middle of holding W and extreme technical movement inputs. also as the speed of the game increases, I assume the need for faster and longer-ranged gap-closing on melee weapons also goes up; so making them unspamable is a tricky situation in how one makes goes about achieving that goal without making melee ineffective compared to guns and techs.
stance/skill activation: yeah bouncer's subpallet is really crowded between class skills, healing techs/consumable items, photon/dark blast, and techs for changing jet boot elements. especially for people using a controller.
first art: it's not lazy, it's much slower than just using the PA. really this is counter-intuitive to what you were talking about with movement tech. not to mention I like being able to setup standing snipe for ranger PAs without needing to use a "primer" PA first, or in launcher's case, being able to go right into a pp-cost reduced sphere eraser without having to spend a bullet charge becuase almost every launcher PA either has a significant startup cost or breaks standing snipe by the time the JA window appears
double jump: it's not boot's entire shtick, I assume pscrew realized that double jumping is just too good to only have on boots and hero. it's a real quality of life improvement tbh. Not to mention boots and hero still have One More Jump, so they can still climb up darker walls and stuff

[vantpers]

imagine being so casual that you feel the need to be angry because YOU cant tackle quests that expect you to KNOW how to play your class. So you try the new solo XQ a few times, cant get pass Deus then rage quit (or get carried by others therefore allowing you to never actually get better) because you refuse to learn to "git gud" and play your class at your best, even if its just for that one clear.

They should have made the 6mill solo XQ title a requirement, would benefit the people who are competent with their class get better quality runs than those who just spam BNS on everything including bosses. Hell make the last solo XQ the req instead or something


god i hope Olga Flow makes a return

Why would you assume I can't clear solo XQ3, and that's the only reason behind my hatred of Sega's progressions system? I cleared it , day 1 counting from the first day I was logged in after its release. My entire point is that the benefit of clearing solo XQ is retarded. You are done with a hard quest or at least harder than usual, and then you get your license to make other quest easier. There is no logical progression. Solo XQ should unlock some sub-difficulty or even new party quests where everything hits like that Hunar but is also scaled to level 85 MPA HP + expert player bonus, of course higher rates of gear and some sidegrades to currently best weapons (because we don't want casuals angry). Currently it's like you playing an RTS with 11 other easy AIs against 12 enemy AIs at level easy, then you solo a quest that's you versus normal AI, just so you can retake those same quests but this time it's 11 hard AIs with you against 12 easy enemy AIs.

Sega instead of letting hardcore players have hardcore content that lets casual players know they aren't playing well by repeatedly killing them and their party failing the quest, puts hardcore players in the same casual content casuals do, and there the only indication to a casual that he isn't doing well is how much a hardcore player bitches about clear times.

[ArcaneTechs]

Sega instead of letting hardcore players have hardcore content that lets casual players know they aren't playing well by repeatedly killing them and their party failing the quest, puts hardcore players in the same casual content casuals do, and there the only indication to a casual that he isn't doing well is how much a hardcore player bitches about clear times.
it wouldnt matter if they mixed in hardcore and casual (like they do now), people can whine and complain the mpa, no matter whats said the casual low skill player is never going to pick up the pace. almost playing with that leech-like mindset really,
"oh i play at my own pace!" nice, heres your participation trophy

[NightlightPro]

people even complain on expert matches cause some players still have unaffixed/poor gear or because they play badly and should not be playing on expert mode.

So, instead of forcing players with expert/non expert, they should just simply divide players who have affixed/unaffixed equipment and force the unaffixed ones to get at least 150 atk affix on each equipment or else no expert games for them

but just because you have high-end gear doesn't mean you are an expert player
you can even be bad at the game with 200+ atk affixes


just my opinion...

[vantpers]

it wouldnt matter if they mixed in hardcore and casual (like they do now), people can whine and complain the mpa, no matter whats said the casual low skill player is never going to pick up the pace. almost playing with that leech-like mindset really,
"oh i play at my own pace!" nice, heres your participation trophy
Casual players play low skill content made for casual players and wonder why everyone is mad at them. Hardcore players notice that it obviously can't really be casual content made for filthy casuals because BASED KIMURA threw us a timer there, and also the checkbox that's supposed to match me with only experts and every expert has to sign huge fucking ToS that state that they are only supposed to use their strongest class combo and play at full throttle any time they are matched with a checkbox user. God bless experts I can get the red crystal of pure and only fun in the game much faster now, or even more of it when I multiship.

[GHNeko]

people even complain on expert matches cause some players still have unaffixed/poor gear or because they play badly and should not be playing on expert mode.

So, instead of forcing players with expert/non expert, they should just simply divide players who have affixed/unaffixed equipment and force the unaffixed ones to get at least 150 atk affix on each equipment or else no expert games for them

but just because you have high-end gear doesn't mean you are an expert player
you can even be bad at the game with 200+ atk affixes


just my opinion...

the problem with separating through affixes is that the prices of the affix market are heavily stacked against satk. It's so ridiculously more expensive to run Satk, and even then the prices fluxate on a per ship basis; so in order to allow all players of all attack types on all ships to be able to afford affixing to X amount, you have to set the bar low. And even then that might not be enough and you'd prob have to do something to the market it make the most expensive attack type more affordable.

it's has been, still is, and always will be a bad idea to gate players based off of affixes. not to mention; like what you said you can still be bad with good affixes, and you can be good with sub-standard affixes.

[AVO]

If casual players just want to play the content, they can just stay in non expert blocks matching and not slow down people that just want to min max their time. But nahh, they have to tick the expert matching to play with the tryhards just because they can even though you can play the content just fine with it. And honestly, most players in the game are at the middle zone in terms of tryharding. They can probably clear the solo xq with their meh equips but cant be bothered to go fast on every single eq while the top 0.01% wants to.

P.S Solo xq is cheesable with hr and lifesteal weps, which i am sure is the next problem tryhards complain if the game implements solo xq as expert req. :-P

[Lostbob117]

If casual players just want to play the content, they can just stay in non expert blocks matching and not slow down people that just want to min max their time. But nahh, they have to tick the expert matching to play with the tryhards just because they can even though you can play the content just fine with it. And honestly, most players in the game are at the middle zone in terms of tryharding. They can probably clear the solo xq with their meh equips but cant be bothered to go fast on every single eq while the top 0.01% wants to.

P.S Solo xq is cheesable with hr and lifesteal weps, which i am sure is the next problem tryhards complain if the game implements solo xq as expert req. :-P

If tryhard players want to speed up their runs, they'd run with their own people who also want to do the same. (Like plenty of teams do)

It's silly to jump into a random group and expect everyone to do what you want to do.

[ArcaneTechs]

people even complain on expert matches cause some players still have unaffixed/poor gear or because they play badly and should not be playing on expert mode.

So, instead of forcing players with expert/non expert, they should just simply divide players who have affixed/unaffixed equipment and force the unaffixed ones to get at least 150 atk affix on each equipment or else no expert games for them

but just because you have high-end gear doesn't mean you are an expert player
you can even be bad at the game with 200+ atk affixes
just my opinion...
as much as I wanted this in the past, i dont really wanted now because as you said, you can have end gear and still be bad at the game. I'd rather take something that'll make sure you know how to play your class efficiently to make it pass the Expert Req, not get carried by 3 friends/team mates/randos and be deemed an "expert"


Casual players play low skill content made for casual players and wonder why everyone is mad at them. Hardcore players notice that it obviously can't really be casual content made for filthy casuals because BASED KIMURA threw us a timer there, and also the checkbox that's supposed to match me with only experts and every expert has to sign huge fucking ToS that state that they are only supposed to use their strongest class combo and play at full throttle any time they are matched with a checkbox user. God bless experts I can get the red crystal of pure and only fun in the game much faster now, or even more of it when I multiship.
see your ranting comes off like your the casual, like your part of problem to all this and your seething over Expert players who actually have the skill and want to multi ship runs because being time gated to certain drops/EQ's kinda sucks and the more runs I can get to have a better chance at that drop but no, I got mr "just got carried through the Expert Req, I'm ready to leech!" over here not picking up the slack etc. Look at the Deus nerf, they should have kept it where it was but no, the casual filth went and complained about it and the Devs just made the entire thing gg ez no re in zero time flat to appease these people. If you and 11 other people cant clear a raid boss within one whole hour idk what to tell you but git gud, realistically they should have kept it at 30mins and make people pick up the pace


P.S Solo xq is cheesable with hr and lifesteal weps, which i am sure is the next problem tryhards complain if the game implements solo xq as expert req. :-P
pro tip: just get carried through it with 3 other people and you're an expert now, have fun

[vantpers]

see your ranting comes off like your the casual, like your part of problem to all this and your seething over Expert players who actually have the skill and want to multi ship runs because being time gated to certain drops/EQ's kinda sucks and the more runs I can get to have a better chance at that drop but no, I got mr "just got carried through the Expert Req, I'm ready to leech!" over here not picking up the slack etc. Look at the Deus nerf, they should have kept it where it was but no, the casual filth went and complained about it and the Devs just made the entire thing gg ez no re in zero time flat to appease these people. If you and 11 other people cant clear a raid boss within one whole hour idk what to tell you but git gud, realistically they should have kept it at 30mins and make people pick up the pace



Yeah I come off as one because I have a shred of empathy for those casual players unlike certain, probably autism affected, people. People can also finish Expert Requirement all honest and still decide to enter play-at-my-own-pace mode with a joke class. You found yourself the premiere fun of the game being the rare drop sure, but apparently the game has so many systems other than waste time - receive digital proof of good boy, because you or at least chunk of playerbase are meant to enjoy all of the process before getting drops. Deus nerf wasn't the result of players failing a boss, that's what should be happening. It was the result of rush mentality with time gated content where people would rather focus on bandaid patches to rewards like making infallible EQs or the checkbox to help you filter unwanted players. All that instead of focusing on delivering some damn good quest design like Challenge Mode 1 especially without the gay onepoint meta.

[Tunga]

Dem god dam filthy casuls ruin muh expewience!
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/001/275/228/def.gif

[ArcaneTechs]

Yeah I come off as one because I have a shred of empathy for those casual players unlike certain, probably autism affected, people. People can also finish Expert Requirement all honest and still decide to enter play-at-my-own-pace mode with a joke class. You found yourself the premiere fun of the game being the rare drop sure, but apparently the game has so many systems other than waste time - receive digital proof of good boy, because you or at least chunk of playerbase are meant to enjoy all of the process before getting drops. Deus nerf wasn't the result of players failing a boss, that's what should be happening. It was the result of rush mentality with time gated content where people would rather focus on bandaid patches to rewards like making infallible EQs or the checkbox to help you filter unwanted players. All that instead of focusing on delivering some damn good quest design like Challenge Mode 1 especially without the gay onepoint meta.
*tips fedora* okay mr contrarian

and they did nerf Deus because people kept constantly failing the EQ because of time restraint, HP total AND damage because casuals couldnt do it. meanwhile people who are ACTUALLY GOOD at the game had no issues clearing this boss.

[Dark Mits]

Yeah they are kinda stuck in a bit of a design hole here. You got Emergency Quests that put everybody on a 30 minute timer to clear it without entering the quest's failure state, or to clear it as many times+reach the clear limit before the half hour ends.

snip to save spaceThis is one of the design problems, and a double edged sword. Either EQs become more available through either means, which means that anything that can be farmed by them will become even rarer / more time consuming to acquire, or you have the current situation where players have to reserve their spot a lot earlier in their desired block. Regarding multiblock, the current situation might be able to be improved upon, by automatically transporting whoever initiates a multi-block mpa to an empty block. So if I am in B-013, and B-013 is 50% full while B-014 is 10% full, then if I initiate a multiblock mpa I should be transfered to B-014, despite the fact that B-013 has room already. However this breaks down for groups that start as premade and later have to open to allow to be filled in with randoms.


2.) make everybody hard dps lmaoI feel this is a missed opportunity on Sega's behalf to make every class have 2 "sub-classes"; one pure dps and 0 utility, and one with lower output and with utility. The stance system would actually help with that by allowing a player to change modes even during a quest. This could also solve the multiple Techer issue; just have 1 Techer stay in utility stance while the others stay in their pure dps one. However, either due to designer oversight or due to player demand, we have the current situation where nearly everything below a stance skill is available at all times passively.


Sega instead of letting hardcore players have hardcore content that lets casual players know they aren't playing well by repeatedly killing them and their party failing the quest, puts hardcore players in the same casual content casuals do, and there the only indication to a casual that he isn't doing well is how much a hardcore player bitches about clear times.There is hardcore content. EQ rematches, Endless Quest for high score, UQ...

But the comment about hardcore players bitching about clear times is unfortunately something that happens in every MMO, not just PSO2. A couple weeks ago I stumbled upon a discussion for World of Warcraft where players were demanding from Blizzard (the developer) to ban players who use chat in instanced content because "they make the run go slower". Really, the fact that we bitch about clear times is so hypocritical of us players. We demand hard and long content, but only as hard and long so that we ourselves clear it and everyone who is better than us. The moment that content appears that is hard enough that we cannot clear it, we start QQing that the developers are out of touch and do not know how to properly design a game and that the devs focus exclusively on no-life basement dwellers who hiss like vampires at the sight of the sun.

[AVO]

If tryhard players want to speed up their runs, they'd run with their own people who also want to do the same. (Like plenty of teams do)

It's silly to jump into a random group and expect everyone to do what you want to do.

True. But its not absurd to ask players to grind their units and weps and not hold rising slash/pst0 and spam shrike and Brand New Star either.

[ArcaneTechs]

True. But its not absurd to ask players to grind their units and weps and not hold rising slash/pst0 and spam shrike and Brand New Star either.
the minimal is sometimes too much for people, this is literally all I ask for. even budget affixes are better than the default affix or w/e random stuff that the unit dropped came with. +35 (or +30) with even a decent affix is more than enough as well.

but what am i saying, +19 wep with +7 unit grind + rando junk affixes on units is apparently meta or something

[Lostbob117]

True. But its not absurd to ask players to grind their units and weps and not hold rising slash/pst0 and spam shrike and Brand New Star either.

Why not hold rising slash? If they find it fun, let them do it. Atleast they aren't just straight up afk'ing.

[otakun]

Hasn't this topic been discussed to death?

You can't demand how people play. Simple as that.

You have a choice to play with good players.

Just cause you're too lazy to make team mpas doesn't mean people have to do what you want.

[Renvalt]

Changing the topic for a moment, but... in that True Dark Falz/Omega PD trailer... upon rewatching, is it just me, or are there elements of ESCA-Falz Mother in that particular boss? Not just mechanics but also aesthetics as well?

I mean, most people probably don't notice when they're fighting her, but Mother also lacks a lower torso (whereas the original PD at least had a flower-base for its lower half) and it also relies a lot on visual cues to tell which move sets its pulling from (Mother did so by the use of wannabe Elder Arms - Omega PD looks like it adapts this mechanic via mask switching).

Could this be the return of the situation in PSP2i where a certain Ohtori boss (Yaoroz was the name of the boss, I believe) ended up being a "training" boss for the Dark Falz fight that would occur afterwards?

[SteveCZ]

Just a little heads up of the official video of the boss (same as what has been posted by in page 8, it's just it's clearer if you like the nice bgm).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPIRZtX1Cu8

[Zorak000]

the final boss is human interaction

[Ransu]

The mask changing on Omega PD has a lot of Persona motifs. Hopefully it does them at will instead of on a phase shift to be less predictable and actually is strong on release so it doesn't melt immediately. But because SEGA it will probably be downed in 7 mins or something because of powercreep.

[oratank]

The mask changing on Omega PD has a lot of Persona motifs. Hopefully it does them at will instead of on a phase shift to be less predictable and actually is strong on release so it doesn't melt immediately. But because SEGA it will probably be downed in 7 mins or something because of powercreep.

uncheck expert and have your fun

[Ransu]

uncheck expert and have your fun

Even with Expert unchecked in my experience EQs more or less have the same times. It wouldn't really matter in the end tbh~

[Cyber Meteor]

The mask changing on Omega PD has a lot of Persona motifs. Hopefully it does them at will instead of on a phase shift to be less predictable and actually is strong on release so it doesn't melt immediately. But because SEGA it will probably be downed in 7 mins or something because of powercreep.

The boss will be lvl85 but will have stats of a lvl90 one (as in balanced with the new lvl90 skills in mind) , and the focus of that EQ will be to have a strong boss. No gimmicky fight like Mother or Deus. That's what SEGA said in July about it. However it is still hard to tell what qualifies as "strong boss" from their point of view :p, on a solo quest we got a clear idea of "high difficulty" quests (last solo XQ), 4 players too (1 lap in EnQ, Dragon rematch if you're in your first 5-10 runs), but 8 or 12 players it's too hard to figure out. I would say we're gonna be more around 12-15 mins (close to Omega Loser but a bit higher since "final boss" lol) of a fight for random expert mpa, less for organized expert players ofc

[Zephyrion]

Changing the topic for a moment, but... in that True Dark Falz/Omega PD trailer... upon rewatching, is it just me, or are there elements of ESCA-Falz Mother in that particular boss? Not just mechanics but also aesthetics as well?

I mean, most people probably don't notice when they're fighting her, but Mother also lacks a lower torso (whereas the original PD at least had a flower-base for its lower half) and it also relies a lot on visual cues to tell which move sets its pulling from (Mother did so by the use of wannabe Elder Arms - Omega PD looks like it adapts this mechanic via mask switching).

Could this be the return of the situation in PSP2i where a certain Ohtori boss (Yaoroz was the name of the boss, I believe) ended up being a "training" boss for the Dark Falz fight that would occur afterwards?

I think they just re-used some of Mother's motif since she was already themed around a collection of Falzes entity so yeah, I'm pretty sure the pacing and feel will be a bit similar to second phase Mother

[Crayzus]

Just a little heads up of the official video of the boss (same as what has been posted by in page 8, it's just it's clearer if you like the nice bgm).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPIRZtX1Cu8

Finally something that resembles a decent PSO boss. Even the likes to dislikes are better.

[ArcaneTechs]

the final boss is human interaction
i think you gave some people here anxiety just reading this lol

[Flatflyer]

y'know some people complain so much about how "casual" other players are and how they're "ruining" their runs makes me wonder if those people even enjoy actually playing the game anymore or are just trying to find an excuse to try to flex.

New boss looks fun, interested as to if its actually PD or not, considering PD was referred to as "Beyond dark falz" whereas this is just "True dark falz" and considering it has a very similar motif to persona with the masks and stuff, though theres an extreme lack of the flower motif that PD usually carries making me unsure of if theres any major part of PD here. it makes me wonder if we somehow still managed to still split persona and PD, but persona still takes the form of a dark falz somehow.

[Dark Mits]

y'know some people complain so much about how "casual" other players are and how they're "ruining" their runs makes me wonder if those people even enjoy actually playing the game anymore or are just trying to find an excuse to try to flex.For some people this is almost a job where they're the boss and everyone else they meet is a tool that exists only and only to help the former advance to their target. Whether the tool is human, has fun, or has other reasons they play is irrelevant; we are simple lifeless NPCs to someone else's playtime.

The paradox of games is that we players enjoy finding the optimal way to accomplish stuff; effectively we do what we can to not play the game while still getting the best rewards.

I also like what someone had said in another forum for another game, and it went something like this: "We hate long and hard content because it doesn't allow us to go online and complain that everything is too easy and quick"

[Zorak000]

yeah the solution is "form a static group", because no matter how a developer tries to gate content, randos find a way (to be bad at the game)

this isn't even a PSO2 thing, this is a thing in every multiplayer PvE game I know about.

[Tymek]

I like it.