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rokkuman
Oct 25, 2018, 10:44 PM
> Planning: Nearly every issue within this game can be broken down to lack of planning, like the fact that EP5 suffered from lots of cut content and an awkward update pacing due to class balancing, compared to the previous episodes. Should they have gotten it right before release (don't they have any play testers?), maybe there wouldn't be any cut content at all.

> Free Fields and ARKS Quests: Almost all Free Field Quests and ARKS Quests feel dull and need some revamping IMO. As a veteran player, i know every pattern their maps have to offer and the enemy AI (which i'll talk about in a moment) is really stupid as they usually follow the same old patterns and pose no threats to the player, not to mention there's no real level design whatsoever (like those pillars in Skyscape in which you could hit with a lightning technique, but the damage dealt by it is laughable). Most of the ARKS Quests are fine IMO, but i think they started running out of ideas for them back in EP3.

> Enemies: Old enemies and mobs need some revamping as well and they're not catching up to the fact everyone's really strong atm and kill almost anything in their sight like flies. I love their Ult counterparts, maybe they could tweak their AI and moves a little bit so that they could be more challenging like those.

> Status Effects: Why do we even have Anti? Aside from the status that caps your HP, i don't really mind about most of status effects as they don't deal much damage over time and usually are a nuisance at best (like confusion and shock). Maybe they could make it deeper and create something like Xenoblade 2's SE system, which would allow for SE merging and more deadly combinations, which could open a whole new level of strategy for magic classes and Ranger's Grenade Launcher.

> Races: They could make races more distinct aside from cosmetics... Maybe race-exclusive skills like the ones we had in PSU/PSoP?

> Story: Although we have exceptions, PSO2's story feels bland at best. I will admit the fact they killed Matterbored and evolved animation-wise made things a lot better, but i still think they could stop overusing shounen tropes so much.

Sirius-91
Oct 25, 2018, 11:05 PM
I want a battle royale mode.

Altrius Véurr
Oct 25, 2018, 11:07 PM
> Ignoring the part about planning, because there are threads and all about this already.

> Free Fields and ARKS Quests are not honestly catered to the veteran players, who should have at least 75'd both their main and subclass by now, and should be focusing on Extreme Quests, LQs, Ultimate Quests ,EQs, Endless and etc for 13* and 14* drops and exp gain. The ones that actually plays the aforementioned Free Fields and ARKS Quests are gathering materials for crafts, the newbies, for photo-taking purposes and for daily orders.

> SEGA already have plans to release a higher difficulty, this point is mote, and your 'everyone's really strong atm' does not caters to the new players who will undoubtedly be struggling, and those who are power-leveling new characters or alternates.

> As you said you don't mind the status effects, but that does not mean that everyone on the playerbase don't. Shock and confusion is irritating, and will undoubtedly lowers one dps if no one 'anti'ed it to make it better. Your opinions is not the opinions of everyone in the player base. If you don't like Anti, don't use it, no one is forcing you to use and/or craft it. Just ignore it.

> That will destroy the lore in PSO2, in PSO2, the lore is that 'technology have improved by leaps and bounds and now races are just aesthetics differences'.

> PSO2 is created for JP-players, and the general opinion of said players are overwhelming support, your 'wishes' is not important to them, and I will also like to remind you that playing PSO2 outside of JP is a bannable offense even if the PSO2 Team doesn't care much. Also, the story of PSO2 is treated favourably so far, EP 1 (for most, is a chore), EP 2 and EP 3 is liked by many players, both in and outside of Japan, for EP 4, JP players generally likes it, and it is mostly the foreign playerbase that is complaining about that anyway. EP 5, other than the brief 'isekai no eiyuu' that made people pissed, is overall, looked upon favourably.

Basically, its just another post about 'how I want things to be better', and a thread about topics that have been dissected heavily on this forum.

rokkuman
Oct 25, 2018, 11:39 PM
> SEGA already have plans to release a higher difficulty, this point is mote, and your 'everyone's really strong atm' does not caters to the new players who will undoubtedly be struggling, and those who are power-leveling new characters or alternates.
That's true, but i hope they make the AI better as well. When SH came out, nearly next to nothing changed aside from the damage enemies dealt and the new kind of corruption.


> As you said you don't mind the status effects, but that does not mean that everyone on the playerbase don't. Shock and confusion is irritating, and will undoubtedly lowers one dps if no one 'anti'ed it to make it better. Your opinions is not the opinions of everyone in the player base. If you don't like Anti, don't use it, no one is forcing you to use and/or craft it. Just ignore it.

That's still no excuse not to make them better, you know. They could improve the damage dealt by the flame one, for instance, and maybe that would make it more attractive for people to use to their advantage instead of a puny ~200 damage.


> That will destroy the lore in PSO2, in PSO2, the lore is that 'technology have improved by leaps and bounds and now races are just aesthetics differences'.
... How exactly would that destroy anything? Also, where does that supposed lore come from? I think it would make choosing a race more interesting and yet not decisive, if properly balanced.


> PSO2 is created for JP-players, and the general opinion of said players are overwhelming support, your 'wishes' is not important to them, and I will also like to remind you that playing PSO2 outside of JP is a bannable offense even if the PSO2 Team doesn't care much. Also, the story of PSO2 is treated favourably so far, EP 1 (for most, is a chore), EP 2 and EP 3 is liked by many players, both in and outside of Japan, for EP 4, JP players generally likes it, and it is mostly the foreign playerbase that is complaining about that anyway. EP 5, other than the brief 'isekai no eiyuu' that made people pissed, is overall, looked upon favourably.

Basically, its just another post about 'how I want things to be better', and a thread about topics that have been dissected heavily on this forum.

Keep in mind these are just my thoughts and you do not need to be toxic about it, it's just a post.

Great Pan
Oct 25, 2018, 11:56 PM
Make it dark and gritty as possible while maintain the Sci-Fi theme. Had enough with medival fantasy shit.

As for the game, I'd like to have...
-Open World
-Return to Ragol. Nostalgia wins.
-Git rid of Dark Blast. Such a pain to see my cool lady turning into a gorilla.
-A Monk type class. Knuckles, Jet Boots and Partisan with altered action would be good.
-Free-for-all vending, for a limited number(like you can sell at most 3 items with no premium).

Meteor Weapon
Oct 26, 2018, 01:53 AM
EP 5, other than the brief 'isekai no eiyuu' that made people pissed, is overall, looked upon favourably.


Never heard 'isekai no eiyuu' being complained issue. Early chapters was a bore and story segregation problem with PC seem to be the only ARKS doing everything in Omega storywise doesnt feel right but i guess thats it.

SteveCZ
Oct 26, 2018, 02:03 AM
Just a new class. As for class, I hope it'd be mid to long range TD, JB, and Partisan. Like for example, throw a spear and immediately throw off a close-range combo as a follow up from afar, like Hero's talis action but as a PA with follow up combo. Throwable/manipulated daggers looks fun too. Call that class an Esper. :lol:

Moffen
Oct 26, 2018, 02:07 AM
Please not a primary melee main class again.

Dark Mits
Oct 26, 2018, 02:12 AM
Sweet, I love these types of discussions. It lets me unleash my inner armchair developer.


> Free Fields and ARKS Quests: I would suggest the removal of ARKS Quests, and their replacement/incorporation in Free Fields by special Emergency Codes. There is no reason to have people who do Subdue Fangulf and Subdue Za Oodan in different instances (assuming the 12player limit hasn't been reached). You can have both mpas spawn in the same map, and have each one complete their objective when the relevant EC appears. This could allow the implementation of "new" daily objectives as well, for example "Daily Capture Dark Ragne".


> Enemies:p This is a doubled-edged sword, and the problem that exists isn't an enemy-AI issue, but a player powercreep issue. In my opinion it's not enemies who should have their AI improved, it's players who should have their powers reduced. Note that I am not saying "reduce player damage". I am saying "reduce damage avoidance capabilities", "reduce PP regeneration", "reduce Healing potential", and such. And this doesn't have to come through nerfs; in fact it can be achieved through buffs: Increase player HP from say 1500 to 6000 without increasing healing from -mates, Resta, lifesteals etc. Suddenly healing is 75% less effective than before. Create enemy abilities that are locked on player and hit regardless if player dodges or not. Increase PP from 200 to 1000 without increasing PP recovery options and while also creating lvl18. and above PA/Tech disks that deal more damage but have higher PP cost. PP will then become a factor that the player will have to manage.


> Status Effects: Status effects are again in a weird situation. You have Mirage, Poison, Burn, Jellen and Weak Bullter which you don't care about. You have Panic and Shock which are an annoyance as you say. and then you have Daze and Freeze which make you hate the game because if you don't get out quickly, you will most likely get hit by something that kills you.
If you don't care about a status effect, why have it at all?
If a status effect is debilitating, player should have options to recover from it, even if it's limited (10 Sol Atomizers).
How I'd design SE: (1) They can stack (so you can have both Burn and Poison, which I think is impossible currently?). (2) Their duration is extended to make them a threat and to increase the viability of Sol, Anti and generally the need for a party. (3) Additional effects (for example Shock also reduces movement speed, Poison reduces all healing received, Burn makes the character run like a chicken like in cartoons etc. (4) New SEs, both positive and negative: Movement slowdown, PA/Tech lock, Element lock, Element absorption (getting hit by an element heals you), Visibility reduction (you can only see and target enemies within a small range like when those Kuronites spawn) etc.

Anti is great, but I think Sega missed the opportunity to give "depth" to it because of their focus on the "just run and kill stuff" instead of "have the player make decisions". For one, Lv1 Anti is the absolutely exact same tech as Lv17 Anti. No difference. Now imagine if Anti did not entirely remove negative effects, but instead reduced their remaining duration, with higher level reducing by more. And then you could make Super Treatment act as a true cleansing buff of a support class instead of a PP battery thing (and give this PP battery effect somewhere else in TE's tree). Because as it is right now, you want the player with Super Treatment to cleanse you because they can indirectly buff your performance; no one else. And this, in my opinion, makes no sense and it's bad design.


> Story:The story needs to become less of a teenage drama that makes Brazilian and Indian soap operas look like they should receive Oscar awards, and more of a sci-fi story with aliens, mechas, and malevolent demigods. Which it already has, but I think is not using "enough". Personal opinion always[/QUOTE]

Kilich
Oct 26, 2018, 02:23 AM
I think the problem is that things outside of game development take too much out of dev team. Ep 1 had a big no content period due to Vita port, Ep2 they had to get people out out of other teams to get balancing and update schedule right with plenty of updates merging worldbuilding and gameplay, Ep3 saw the end of the premade content, with them throwing in even scrapped content like Bouncer. Personally, I consider Challenger lobby and TD3 updates the best period of the game.
Then EP4 happened, due to Sega trying to do the stage play, anime, ps4 port and all kinds of other things like gathering, cosmetics, star gems, better graphics,. They are nice QoL things, but they can't replace either story, or gameplay, or put a dent into the powercreep that was supposed to entice the new players and keep the old ones. Personally, Tokyo TA is one of my favorite missions, but that's silver lining.
Ep5 has the nintendo switch and tries to do a better job with its story, but gameplay so far is pretty lacking. I mean, the dragon and castle ems are nice and I heard good things about battle arena, but I don't think they carry the game.

I hope that in Ep6, they'll make the old missions more interesting, by adding new Code: type of events, or make smaller ems that you queue in for free. Personally, I hope for customizable AIS.

Sica
Oct 26, 2018, 03:00 AM
I would suggest the removal of ARKS Quests, and their replacement/incorporation in Free Fields by special Emergency Codes. There is no reason to have people who do Subdue Fangulf and Subdue Za Oodan in different instances (assuming the 12player limit hasn't been reached). You can have both mpas spawn in the same map, and have each one complete their objective when the relevant EC appears. This could allow the implementation of "new" daily objectives as well, for example "Daily Capture Dark Ragne".

Yeah, being able to complete your ARKS quest dailies from Emergency Quest is a huge QOL improvement. But don't remove the ARKS quest, because relying on RNG for the completion of the quest feels terrible. I had enough from Garongo not showing up in forest free field.
Another form of improvement would be reducing the map length of those unnecessary long old ARKS quest.

Altrius Véurr
Oct 26, 2018, 03:30 AM
Keep in mind these are just my thoughts and you do not need to be toxic about it, it's just a post.

Ah my mistake, I thought that this is another post about how 'the development team should cater to our whims and fancies', 'how dare they not do better' and the typical self-importance that a number of foreign players in PSO2 tends to have. I apologise for being caustic with my words.

For lore, in phantasystar.wiki, it was mentioned that
Humans are one of the four races from which players can select from. Humans are the original entities from which ARKS was born; early in Photon research, it was discovered that Humans have the best aptitude for Photon control, thus making them the basis of all races. The Newman, CAST, and Deuman races were created by using Humans as a template. The other races were initially created to specialize in specific roles, but as research into the control of Photons advanced, the other three races evolved to possess Photon wielding capability nearly identical to that of Humans, thereby making their differences purely aesthetic.

Each of the other races have the same information 'evolved to possess Photon wielding capacity nearly identical to Humans, thereby making their differences purely aesthetic. Basically, racial differences (and lack thereof for anything but aesthetics) is a done thing, and it is not likely that SEGA will change anything about it. I mean, it had been over two centuries since Human was created, however long for Newman and CAST and less than forty decades for Deuman, if any race were to have say, shorter lifespan, health problems and such, it will be Deuman. But story-wise, SEGA probably won't do that.

Story-wise, well, it went without saying that PSO2 have a star-studded cast, and they might have to leave the episode early (Bethor's VA, the Frieza guy) or take a medical-imposed vacation time (Hitsugi's VA). It was mentioned that Episode 4's story line was not what they had originally planned, but due to conflicting schedules for their VAs, quite a fair amount of their plans were scrapped. Thus, the over-reliance on Earth scenes over Oracle scenes (the voice actors/actresses can't really make it).The only thing I am really interested in right now is how they intend to touch on PC's identity as the world's weapon, and the whole 'not even the Akashic Record knows which of us will survive' prophecy-like thing that Shiva had said to PC .

There might be an epilogue for Episode 5 (according to someone who datamined the stuff, Episode 5 is ending in December), so Episode 6 is gonna take place next year, at the earliest, probably around February or March.

wefwq
Oct 26, 2018, 03:40 AM
Enable enemy stat gain for expert room, and ability to send your sad & lonely support partner into gathering some items for you.

XrosBlader821
Oct 26, 2018, 03:47 AM
Re: Planning
Tbh this is more to do with them not expecting such heavy backlash towards the Buster Quests and powergap between Advanced Classes and Regular Classes. Had everything gone as planned they wouldn't have needed to scrap any content.

Re: Free Fields & Arks Quests
I think Arks quests should boil down to "Kill this Area Boss", similarly to how Tokyo has Train Gidoran Quest, but stuff like subdue Fangulf and Nab rappy are really uneccesary. Furthermore I think AQ's need some overhauls as well.

Re: Enemies
I don't think you can really do much to the old enemies without making new player experience too hard it's already bad enough that Apostolos Dragon can spawn randomly and fuck your shit up.

Re: Status Effect
Anti exists so that Fo and Te can make your PP recovery stupid for 30 seconds :p

Re: Races
Tbh I don't see Sega trying to make the races more distinct anymore. Lately they gave you the option to use any skin color on any race so it seems they're trying to achieve quite the opposite.

Re:Story
I don't think we're gonna go away from the tropes. PSO2 is a Japan orientated product and they eat that shit up with a spoon.

And my personal hopes are really that Sega just tries to be Scifi centric again and that we won't visit another different dimension with their own problem barely related to ours.

Dark Mits
Oct 26, 2018, 03:56 AM
Yeah, being able to complete your ARKS quest dailies from Emergency Quest is a huge QOL improvement. But don't remove the ARKS quest, because relying on RNG for the completion of the quest feels terrible. I had enough from Garongo not showing up in forest free field.
Another form of improvement would be reducing the map length of those unnecessary long old ARKS quest.Emergency Code, please do not confuse these 2. RNG wouldn't even exist. It's the same principle as the "Collect Rare Ores" ARKS Quest; the final map of the ARKS Quest has an area where the Emergency Code activates. This could be done on the main 12-player map and activate when approached by the player with the required daily featured Emergency Code.

(b) I was referring to ARKS Quests, not mob kills. Yes, Garongos are somewhat rare in Free Field. But they are 100% deterministic spawns in Time Attack, so you can just do 20seconds in Naberius Beginner to clear it. Similar for all other daily featured "kill this" quests.

(c) I would prefer a map that is like the Sanctum maps in complexity. There needs to be a sense of exploration, and not just "get in get out".

ArcaneTechs
Oct 26, 2018, 03:58 AM
just add weapons from PSU and Beasts back into the game again and I'll be a happy camper. oh ya and content like some more UQ maps or something iunno make it worth farming like Enchanted Forest. i could give a list of more stuff but some of it has been said and im just not expecting Sega to actually go all out anymore

Sica
Oct 26, 2018, 05:53 AM
Emergency Code, please do not confuse these 2. RNG wouldn't even exist. It's the same principle as the "Collect Rare Ores" ARKS Quest; the final map of the ARKS Quest has an area where the Emergency Code activates. This could be done on the main 12-player map and activate when approached by the player with the required daily featured Emergency Code.

(b) I was referring to ARKS Quests, not mob kills. Yes, Garongos are somewhat rare in Free Field. But they are 100% deterministic spawns in Time Attack, so you can just do 20seconds in Naberius Beginner to clear it. Similar for all other daily featured "kill this" quests.

(c) I would prefer a map that is like the Sanctum maps in complexity. There needs to be a sense of exploration, and not just "get in get out".

Well you didn't mention anything about the Emergency Code (got it right this time) will definitely appear, so pardon my assumption.
The Garongo example was mostly just me saying that enemy appearance have the same randomness as Emergency Code, which makes doing daily longer.
Though I guess it doesn't really matter anyway, since maintaining daily triboost is doable with 2 quest or even 1.

Also doesn't things like Emergency Code determined at the instance creation. For example, Player A has a Nab Rappy Capture quest, thus any
Naberius free field instance created by Player A will 100% trigger the quest as the, say, first Emergency Code of a certain spot at that field. Player B, with Subdue Fangulf quest, join Player A's map. Because Player A doesn't have Subdue Fangulf quest, the quest won't appear at that map or at least won't appear 100%.

(c)
It's mostly for quest with 2 single-party and 1 multi-party area. I dunno, I just personally found it too long and annoying for a complicated map.
The exploration doesn't feels rewarding either, since there is nothing worth mentioning at the dead-end.
Funny enough, I found Enchanted Forest is the best for the exploration aspect. Like reaching those dead-end and suddenly a Lvl 85 Omega Hunar show up or defying the MPA's guru-guru route and trigger a Mr. Umbra Emergency Code. It feels good.

Kilich
Oct 26, 2018, 06:46 AM
If I were to say what I want, instead of listing the likes and dislikes from the past, then outside of custom AIS, then a few things:
Smarter enemies, or at least better designed ones, since they did try to make them with clones and Anga.
Slower gameplay, with less enemies, or at least less enemies that leap and run around less and have less aoe so that minor things, like crafting, subclass weaponry, debuffs, or terrain matter more. Also, maybe bring back and make more Codes? Attack and Duel are rather boring if they are the only ones.
More perks to having different classes working together, like it used to be Hu JGs to keep those behind them safe, RA has weak bullet and shoots distant weak points, Te buffs and heals, Fo deals AoE, Gu and Fi are the high risk, high reward DPS. I kinda miss those times, instead of 8/12 self sufficient dps rolling through anything.
More well designed modes and maps. I really like Tokyo TA, TD ems and Challenge Mode, more of that please.

Dark Mits
Oct 26, 2018, 07:46 AM
Well you didn't mention anything about the Emergency Code (got it right this time) will definitely appear, so pardon my assumption.I mentioned it: "I would suggest the removal of ARKS Quests, and their replacement/incorporation in Free Fields by special Emergency Codes."


Also doesn't things like Emergency Code determined at the instance creation. For example, Player A has a Nab Rappy Capture quest, thus any
Naberius free field instance created by Player A will 100% trigger the quest as the, say, first Emergency Code of a certain spot at that field. Player B, with Subdue Fangulf quest, join Player A's map. Because Player A doesn't have Subdue Fangulf quest, the quest won't appear at that map or at least won't appear 100%.I was not clear enough on how this can be coded, so I will give an example:

We start with a a blank map. No exits, just 1 entrance. Group A has the Daily Emergency Code "Kill Rockbear" and enters the map. Group B also has the daily EC "Kill Rockbear", and Group C has the daily EC "Arrest 7 Nab Rappies".

The moment the first player of Group A drops from the campship and enters the map, the game selects a random part of the map (let's say in quadrant B-3) where the Emergency Code "Kill Rockbear" will trigger once a player of this specific group A visits this specific quadrant (B-3). This means that if any player who does not belong in Group A goes to quadrant B-3, the Rockbear of Group A will not be triggered. Similarily, the moment any player from Group B enters the map, the game selects another quadrant (let's say E-4) for their Rockbear.
Now here's the clutch: Both groups A and B have Kill Rockbear as their daily task. But the 2 Rockbears will spawn only if a player of the proper group goes in the specific quadrant of the map. Any player of Group B who goes to B-3 will not spawn the Rockbear. However, if the Rockbear in B-3 is spawned due to Group A, then any nearby players of Group B who help kill this Rockbear will get full credit for completing their daily task.
Now let's suppose that all of Group A and Group B killed the Rockbear in B-3, but not in E-4, and they all decide to bail because they did their daily task. The moment that all members of Group B go back to the campship (or lobby), ie. once there is no active Group B member in the main map, the hidden trigger for Rockbear in E-4 will be deleted and the quadrant will be freed for other random events.

Now about Group C. Well, the same applies to it. Group C can help kill the Rockbear and will get credit for killing Rockbear if they have the relevant client order from Hans, but they will have to keep going around the map until the Nab rappies spawn so that they can complete their daily task.

I hope this has explained how I'd design Free Fields.


(c)
It's mostly for quest with 2 single-party and 1 multi-party area. I dunno, I just personally found it too long and annoying for a complicated map.
The exploration doesn't feels rewarding either, since there is nothing worth mentioning at the dead-end.
Funny enough, I found Enchanted Forest is the best for the exploration aspect. Like reaching those dead-end and suddenly a Lvl 85 Omega Hunar show up or defying the MPA's guru-guru route and trigger a Mr. Umbra Emergency Code. It feels good.This is something we disagree on. The reward from traversing a maze-like map would be finding your objective. Entering a map like Tokyo or Las Vegas and just randomly flying around to get your boss to spawn in 10 seconds so that you get out for your reward is (in my opinion) way too much over-arcadization. Exploring and finding random stuff, and some rare enemies or events is what keeps the game interesting and non-boring.

Tunga
Oct 26, 2018, 08:54 AM
Just give us more cute and slutty clothing sega so we can continue phasioning our lolies and waifus. Gameplay is for suckers, nolifes and tryhards. :wacko:

vantpers
Oct 26, 2018, 08:57 AM
This is a doubled-edged sword, and the problem that exists isn't an enemy-AI issue, but a player powercreep issue. In my opinion it's not enemies who should have their AI improved, it's players who should have their powers reduced. Note that I am not saying "reduce player damage". I am saying "reduce damage avoidance capabilities", "reduce PP regeneration", "reduce Healing potential", and such. And this doesn't have to come through nerfs; in fact it can be achieved through buffs: Increase player HP from say 1500 to 6000 without increasing healing from -mates, Resta, lifesteals etc. Suddenly healing is 75% less effective than before. Create enemy abilities that are locked on player and hit regardless if player dodges or not. Increase PP from 200 to 1000 without increasing PP recovery options and while also creating lvl18. and above PA/Tech disks that deal more damage but have higher PP cost. PP will then become a factor that the player will have to manage.

I agree with most of what's said because there just ain't enough ways to make interesting challenges for players flying out of enemy range and doing massive damage from 10 years of invincibility, but I think you're proposing some wrong workarounds here. The strongest healing effects in the game sure need to be nerfed, even resta or megiverse are a bit OP, not even mentioning Automated Halfline, but suddenly having a gigantic HP jump will yet again leave a whole lot of content in dust without a big rebalance. I would just love me good nerf and telling people to suck it up.

Undodgeable attacks are a type of bullshit, it's really really easy to make enemies hit players more often by taking a few skills/PAs giving millions of iframes for nothing, and no floating in the air out of enemy range either. You want more? More enemies cluttering the screen will solve problems with any player that's a bit too good at timing things. Then you make the boss attack faster while increasing timing requirements on successful defensive actions. Better yet actually add more enemies to the boss in the form of appendages acting on its own or simultaneous projectile attacks independent of boss' main body actions. Look at Anga bits which never fail to put some actually not really scratch damage on me during solo.

PP management currently isn't a problem either. PAs are extremely spammy, but it's a good thing since PAs are more unique than normal attacks. You're really chaining singular actions into each other more akin to a slow and simple Fighting game rather than doing dial up combos, but it's all good. Do we really need to make everyone play just a bit closer to a Techer?

>
Free Fields and ARKS Quests are not honestly catered to the veteran players, who should have at least 75'd both their main and subclass by now, and should be focusing on Extreme Quests, LQs, Ultimate Quests ,EQs, Endless and etc for 13* and 14* drops and exp gain. The ones that actually plays the aforementioned Free Fields and ARKS Quests are gathering materials for crafts, the newbies, for photo-taking purposes and for daily orders.
.
lol. That's nice imagination you've got, but you should actually play the game. First of all Extreme Quests besides the solo ones and quickly repurposed for 4 man party one are all balanced for around late SH difficulty, all 3 times about 70 floors or so of them. The only up-to-date XQ we have is 5 floors of solo + almost the same 5 floors in a party of 4 with a few small changes. Similarly LQ were just nerfed into ground. XH level LQ has SH level HP because newbie players grinded them too slowly . EQs should be done by all players since they take a limited timeslot with usually much better rewards than any full availability quests. The only exception would be rematches which we have 3(?) as I am not counting the one done entirely in the AIS and the other one done almost entirely in Luther form. Ultimate Quests are outdated all the same with enemies balanced for EP3 with random chance of bigger hp mobs.

Now compare it to Free Field called Enchanted Forest which houses actually the toughest mobs in the game hp wise as even latest Buster EQ has lowered hp on their level 85 mobs compared to level 80 most for EF. We have a difficulty setting for a reason, and we should've had a new difficulty much earlier that would separate level 75 XH mobs for players who barely hit their own level 75, and level 85 or tougher mobs put on that new one. Just look at Enchanted Forest levels of HP/mob aggressiveness and compare it to Kuron Free Field while saying they are the same level of difficulty. Fuck veteran players might not just want to play a Time Attack simulator with different name all the time and actually go into a properly balanced Free Field while having semi-random adventures instead of set in stone stage spawns.

the_importer_
Oct 26, 2018, 09:18 AM
No more medieval settings. If I wanted this crap, I'd play FFXIV :(

Chimeria
Oct 26, 2018, 09:38 AM
The story needs to become less of a teenage drama that makes Brazilian and Indian soap operas look like they should receive Oscar awards, and more of a sci-fi story with aliens, mechas, and malevolent demigods. Which it already has, but I think is not using "enough". Personal opinion always
This has been on my wishlist for a while. I know at this point PSO2 is anime trope central but if anything, I'd just like to see more of the sci-fi/space theme explored upon more. I really liked the idea of basically being space mercenaries..I liked it even more being a space mercenary that actually explored new and unknown planets and areas and having to worry about some odd entity corrupting the wild-life or the government doing experiments on soliders and turning them into crazy 30ft tall sword-arm monsters that attack you on your way down an elevator shaft. lol.

If anything, I had a disconnect with the story during episode 4 when Japan and Vegas were added. Like FFXV having sort of that (almost) real world setting, it just kind of took me out of the game especially since the PS series has always been a more contained story within it's own world/universe. Why not just make a fictional city like Clyez from PSU? It's a personal thing but that always bothered me.

TehCubey
Oct 26, 2018, 09:59 AM
This is a doubled-edged sword, and the problem that exists isn't an enemy-AI issue, but a player powercreep issue. In my opinion it's not enemies who should have their AI improved, it's players who should have their powers reduced. Note that I am not saying "reduce player damage". I am saying "reduce damage avoidance capabilities", "reduce PP regeneration", "reduce Healing potential", and such. And this doesn't have to come through nerfs; in fact it can be achieved through buffs: Increase player HP from say 1500 to 6000 without increasing healing from -mates, Resta, lifesteals etc. Suddenly healing is 75% less effective than before. Create enemy abilities that are locked on player and hit regardless if player dodges or not. Increase PP from 200 to 1000 without increasing PP recovery options and while also creating lvl18. and above PA/Tech disks that deal more damage but have higher PP cost. PP will then become a factor that the player will have to manage.

Sounds like you want PSO2 to turn from an action RPG into another tri-role MMO, where tanks have no option but to soak up hits and then the healers heal the damage while DPS finishes the enemy.

Bolding mine but my response applies to the whole quote.

BTW biggest cringe moments in the game's plot/writing came from ep 1 and 2 for me, which were the most "sci-fi" ones.

Zephyrion
Oct 26, 2018, 10:45 AM
Sounds like you want PSO2 to turn from an action RPG into another tri-role MMO, where tanks have no option but to soak up hits and then the healers heal the damage while DPS finishes the enemy.

Bolding mine but my response applies to the whole quote.

BTW biggest cringe moments in the game's plot/writing came from ep 1 and 2 for me, which were the most "sci-fi" ones.

While I'm not exactly a nostalgia fag, I think PSO2 story would do well to take notes from PSO1 story : I'd much rather have a very minimalist but efficient plot line than most of the horribly convoluted storylines we get.

as for enemies I actually don't have any issues about how hard/easy they are for all the most recent ones. sure there are some outdated enemies and AIs in there, but I'd say it's more linked to HP and power ratio than anything (let's all remember the triple power Gracia campaign or how solo XQ on release made Deus Hunar go from pushover to one of the most rage inducing bosses, granted partly for wrong reasons). I guess they should just start implementing more gimmicks, you could find tons of good ideas to challenge the player (temporary heal seal/slowdown/whatever obnoxious thing you may come up with fields, making HP cut impossible to anti, recycling the Zigmorde gimmick , a.k.a kill the right parts or you die, deflecting projectiles, giving some bosses counter guard abilities, the list goes on).

TehCubey
Oct 26, 2018, 11:25 AM
While I'm not exactly a nostalgia fag, I think PSO2 story would do well to take notes from PSO1 story : I'd much rather have a very minimalist but efficient plot line than most of the horribly convoluted storylines we get.

I disagree.

I found PSO2's stories for the most part perfectly fine on a conceptual level. What I take issues with is the implementation, the scene by scene details: things being too drawn out or the opposite, too rushed; or events not being properly explained or justified so it feels like stuff happens just because; characters jobbing in a cheap way; or a scene that was supposed to be funny or dramatic but comes off as groan worthy due to how it's written.

The only exception here is the Gettemhart and Melphonsina story. It's just horrible in general, the former is a horrible character and the fact the game tries to portray him as sympathetic and dares to victim blame Melrondia is frankly disgusting.

Sica
Oct 26, 2018, 11:33 AM
I mentioned it: "I would suggest the removal of ARKS Quests, and their replacement/incorporation in Free Fields by special Emergency Codes."

Oh, my mistake then.
Anyway, I think the concept is similar to Rare Enemy Trigger. I don't remember whether you can apply a trigger to an existing instance. So it might or might not be a hassle to implement. And depends on the number of group and quest carried by each of them, there might not be enough spot in the map to place the trigger.
Also what's the purpose for this system anyway? At first I thought it was going to be a way to shorten your dailies, but since the trigger spot is randomized, it potentially prolong the quest. Sure you can shorten them with an MPA, but the process of finding a right party at a right timing kinda defeat the purpose.


This is something we disagree on. The reward from traversing a maze-like map would be finding your objective. Entering a map like Tokyo or Las Vegas and just randomly flying around to get your boss to spawn in 10 seconds so that you get out for your reward is (in my opinion) way too much over-arcadization. Exploring and finding random stuff, and some rare enemies or events is what keeps the game interesting and non-boring.
Hey, I did mention Omega Hunar and Mr. Umbra. Those are rare in my opinion. Exploration is nice, it just not something I'd do while doing dailies, which is the only reason why I'm doing ARKS quest in the first place.
And there is no need to change the map to be similar with Tokyo and Vegas. Just reducing the number of area from 3 to 2 would do.

Chimeria
Oct 26, 2018, 12:15 PM
I disagree.

I found PSO2's stories for the most part perfectly fine on a conceptual level. What I take issues with is the implementation, the scene by scene details: things being too drawn out or the opposite, too rushed; or events not being properly explained or justified so it feels like stuff happens just because; characters jobbing in a cheap way; or a scene that was supposed to be funny or dramatic but comes off as groan worthy due to how it's written.


I think it all depends on the player to be honest. I personally liked the mystery behind the world and the supporting characters in PSO way more than the typical trope characters in PSO2. But at the same time, both games have a particular theme and the characters fit the theme of both games. PSO had a very simple story basically about survival. There was no "chosen one" that was going to save the world from some oncoming threat. Everyone had the opportunity to play a role in the bigger picture. I liked being able to find out the story on my own as well discovering Rico and Flowen's story through the caspules and side strories through side missions. Some even with recurring characters and stories that intertwined...everything wasn't a long drawn out soap opera.

While PSO2 is the opposite. The story is given to the player like seasons of a TV show and your character is there for the ride for the most part accompanying many characters that actually progress the story along. The theme is a bit more light-hearted as well.

I try not to compare the games at this point because PSO2 is drastically different but there are times I do wish the story was more self-contained and not sci-fi/space thriller then VR anime that becomes a High Fantasy story.

SteveCZ
Oct 26, 2018, 01:15 PM
PSO2 basically offers the story like a soap opera ever since eps 1. But I agree that we've been stuck on a single planet per episode (if not the moon) ever since episode 3.

Dark Mits
Oct 26, 2018, 01:52 PM
Sounds like you want PSO2 to turn from an action RPG into another tri-role MMO, where tanks have no option but to soak up hits and then the healers heal the damage while DPS finishes the enemy.No, that is not my point. The point of having unavoidable damage is to give an additional axis on which players can see progress on their characters. As it is right now, we only see higher damage numbers as we improve our equipment. Now imagine if players could also find themselves receiving lower (relative to their max hp) damage as they get better equipment, which would lead to lower downtime/PP expenditure for recovery. Or they could even find a new meta where slightly reducing your own output to reduce the time you have to spend recovering yourself would end up with better overall performance.

And yes, I can see a meta emerging from such a suggestion where having one player forego output to increase recovery potency for the whole group would end up being optimal in group content.


BTW biggest cringe moments in the game's plot/writing came from ep 1 and 2 for me, which were the most "sci-fi" ones.Outside of nearly anything with Patty, Katori, lots of Zeno+Echo cutscenes, and Matoi, the rest was ok for me.
Xiera for me in EP4 was worse than Patty, and nearly everything with Aru and generally non-combat Earth scenes were fan service. Though I did enjoy the scenes with Ardem, Aratron and Ophiel.


Anyway, I think the concept is similar to Rare Enemy Trigger.Exactly. In fact, my idea was based on the way Rare Enemy Trigger functions with minor changes, because if I remember correctly any player can activate the Rare Enemy, not only the leader of the mpa that used it. Also indeed, you cannot apply it to an existing instance, the game creates a new instance when you use the Trigger.


Also what's the purpose for this system anyway? At first I thought it was going to be a way to shorten your dailies, but since the trigger spot is randomized, it potentially prolong the quest. Sure you can shorten them with an MPA, but the process of finding a right party at a right timing kinda defeat the purpose.The initial purpose is to replace all ARKS Quests. This really is a personal preference, but I like seeing lots of other adventurers online when I play online games. ARKS Quests create a new instance for players. With my system, the task of the ARKS Quest would be replaced in a Free Field map with Emergency Codes; the player would just have to find out where on the map he has to go. This also helps make the game look alive, and helps groups of lesser experienced people to defeat difficult bosses that can spawn, like Falz Angel and Apostolo, since the possibility of having players rush to help is higher in a map where players constantly come and go than in a 1/12 map.

Regarding the length of the quest, my suggestion actually shortens it. Right now you have to find the exit from area 1, and then the exit from area 2. In my suggestion, you just have to find the "exit" in area 1.


And there is no need to change the map to be similar with Tokyo and Vegas. Just reducing the number of area from 3 to 2 would do.I dislike Tokyo and Vegas maps. There is no exploration for one. On the other hand, maps like Sanctum have lots of intersections and dead ends and "demand" exploration. Which, in my opinion, should be as important as combat in a RPG.

Kilich
Oct 26, 2018, 04:00 PM
I think that introducing enemies with unavoidable damage will just lead to players instantly focusing them and then beating the rest of loot pinatas that the mobs have turned into with the powercreep.

Flaoc
Oct 26, 2018, 05:44 PM
No, that is not my point. The point of having unavoidable damage is to give an additional axis on which players can see progress on their characters. As it is right now, we only see higher damage numbers as we improve our equipment. Now imagine if players could also find themselves receiving lower (relative to their max hp) damage as they get better equipment, which would lead to lower downtime/PP expenditure for recovery. Or they could even find a new meta where slightly reducing your own output to reduce the time you have to spend recovering yourself would end up with better overall performance.

no

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/499342080372637697.png?v=1

ArcaneTechs
Oct 26, 2018, 08:14 PM
No, that is not my point. The point of having unavoidable damage is to give an additional axis on which players can see progress on their characters. As it is right now, we only see higher damage numbers as we improve our equipment. Now imagine if players could also find themselves receiving lower (relative to their max hp) damage as they get better equipment, which would lead to lower downtime/PP expenditure for recovery. Or they could even find a new meta where slightly reducing your own output to reduce the time you have to spend recovering yourself would end up with better overall performance.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390394379870666754/495891852298289163/1536279050120.jpg

Tunga
Oct 26, 2018, 09:30 PM
No, that is not my point. The point of having unavoidable damage is to give an additional axis on which players can see progress on their characters. As it is right now, we only see higher damage numbers as we improve our equipment. Now imagine if players could also find themselves receiving lower (relative to their max hp) damage as they get better equipment, which would lead to lower downtime/PP expenditure for recovery. Or they could even find a new meta where slightly reducing your own output to reduce the time you have to spend recovering yourself would end up with better overall performance.

Nah that wouldn't work in a game like this, imagine if your average pug needed to use any resemblance of actual teamwork (Force or techers topping everyone off before the hit, or a hunter needing to take the hit for everyone else). It works in a holy trio MMO but not this one, just focus on MUH BIG NUMBERS and MUH DAMAGE like everyone else.

Mattykins
Oct 27, 2018, 03:07 AM
Really, just having a more engaging system through which to tell the story might make it seem less bland. Just slammed through the entire Ep5 story at once so I could fight elga masquerade or w/e his name is and was a bit stunned at how much of it was just sitting around watching cutscenes. If they could find a way to intermingle gameplay and story a bit better (I guess kinda like the story nodes or w/e they were that spawned in the world back during the Matter Board days), that'd be great, but it's Sega so meh.

As for gameplay, I like how much more streamlined gameplay has become because of Hero, but since they weren't planning it and had to pull the Ep5 train off its rails to make it happen I'm not confident that they'll be able to build on it.

I don't like how raid bosses have turned into this process of knocking down the boss, bursting on their weakspot, then rinse and repeat. Segregating the fights between offense and defense make them feel... iunno how to describe it... I guess, chore-ish? I guess the most obvious examples are Double, PD, and Deus.

That said, I wouldn't mind more content specifically designed for small groups of 1-4 (instead of just Sega taking raid bosses and tweaking their stats) For example, the hunar forms of all the final bosses are all made so they can be fought solo at the end of their respective story's episodes, and I genuinely enjoy fighting them. Free field bosses tended to be fought in SPAs by parties of 1-4, and some of those can be pretty fun to deal with (tho they're a bit more hit-or-miss imo) More stuff like that, I suppose.

Dunno if there really is a single magic bullet that can fix this game. Maybe I'm just getting old, iunno

Kilich
Oct 27, 2018, 03:45 AM
I liked the matterboard approach, actually. You just play the game to go through it, because it needs drops, taking a npc to a mission, sometimes an unique mission, and talking to them/hearing them talk as you play, or seeing a cutscene during the mission if you interact with the spawned cutscene trigger. And you have all those side stories as random cutscene triggers that just appear during a mission. I remember playing mission specifically to find all of the cutscenes.

But I think most of the changes that Sega did in ep4 and 5 were aimed at attracting ps4 and switch players, at the cost of forgetting about the game itself and what made it popular to begin with. Not that this is anything new, since ep1 had a huge no content window while they worked on the vita port. But at least, back then they separated pc and vita players into different blocks that, as I remember, were adapted for gameplay differences.

final_attack
Oct 27, 2018, 05:18 AM
Better Collection File value (from the good weapons to strongest, with current rate of 3-5 runs using 250% + 100% TriBoost to fulfill) _(:3」
Oh, and for Collection File to include all kinds of units too

ralf542
Oct 27, 2018, 08:13 AM
Now imagine if players could also find themselves receiving lower (relative to their max hp) damage as they get better equipment, which would lead to lower downtime/PP expenditure for recovery. Or they could even find a new meta where slightly reducing your own output to reduce the time you have to spend recovering yourself would end up with better overall performance.
For flinching and stuff, we got Massive Hunter and Air Reversal. For HP recovery you don't need to stop and use mate items, we have skills, potentials, SSA and ring for it or a quick tap on Megiverse.

Now imagine doing stuff with 3k+ HP, maxed Flash Guard, Atra Sword or rainbow Lightning Espada-NT and never stop attacking because almost nothing can kill you, unavoidable damage wont make me stop attacking.

Zorak000
Oct 27, 2018, 04:58 PM
an auto-rejoin on disconnect system

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 27, 2018, 06:40 PM
No, that is not my point. The point of having unavoidable damage is to give an additional axis on which players can see progress on their characters. As it is right now, we only see higher damage numbers as we improve our equipment. Now imagine if players could also find themselves receiving lower (relative to their max hp) damage as they get better equipment, which would lead to lower downtime/PP expenditure for recovery. Or they could even find a new meta where slightly reducing your own output to reduce the time you have to spend recovering yourself would end up with better overall performance.

God no.

If you want people to worry about getting hit again without stupid one-shots, or unavoidable damage take a page from the new chrome dragon's HP cut spam ripped from Ninja Gaiden Sigma (which I have suggested years ago),

The only meta your suggestion would encourage is lifesteal weapons/abilities forever.

Lostbob117
Oct 27, 2018, 07:51 PM
Kakwane Suit Mini

GHNeko
Oct 27, 2018, 08:30 PM
I just want them to stop with the "MAIN CLASS ONLY BUILDS ARE THE ONLY BUILDS" bullshit.

It's degenerative as hell and is wasting the potential of the subclass system. Stop gimpping subclass builds through the weapon pool and the skill tree.

SteveCZ
Oct 27, 2018, 09:34 PM
an auto-rejoin on disconnect system

110% agree!

Flatflyer
Oct 27, 2018, 11:21 PM
theres only 2 things I'd like for the story side of things:

more actual "quests" integrated into the story instead of just 1 or 2 per chapter (even just filler stuff is fine), and also being able to do story quests co-op would be nice, maybe make some harder ones to make it more interesting too.

FantasyHeaven
Oct 28, 2018, 12:48 AM
> Planning
Despite their alleged 10 year plan, the game clearly wasn't planned out past like ep2 in the first place. They should just start fresh with a fully planned out pso3. Too bad pso3 is most likely to be just a trashy mobile application in today's japan.

Enforcer MKV
Oct 28, 2018, 12:10 PM
It's been a while since I played but.....honestly, if they allowed players to sell a limited number of items per week/day and the shop pass instead removed any limit, I might come back.

Not being able to sell items and being forced to resort to TACOs and dailies for all my income is ultimately what killed my interest more than any gripe I had with the settings.

Kondibon
Oct 28, 2018, 12:18 PM
It's been a while since I played but.....honestly, if they allowed players to sell a limited number of items per week/day and the shop pass instead removed any limit, I might come back.

Not being able to sell items and being forced to resort to TACOs and dailies for all my income is ultimately what killed my interest more than any gripe I had with the settings.Just spend excubes on fun tickets until you get like 5-6 shop passes, then stock up on stuff to sell and sell it all in one go every couple of weeks.

Moffen
Oct 28, 2018, 03:49 PM
New classes focusing on S/R/T atk respectively,instead of just 1 class.
That way we dont get so burnt out on the 1 class after a few months and it isnt 70% of the games population for months on end again.

NightlightPro
Oct 28, 2018, 04:34 PM
dropable AC scratch tickets in random EQ's
more casino games (why not a racing mini game?)
Dark Flow release lol PSO1 nostalgia
13* units with SSA's
new difficulty mode because lv 90 cap soon (req. lv 90 ofc)
recycle/trade unwanted 14*s for other 14*s
add a damn 30 day shop pass in the SG treasure shop cuz we need that
oh yeah and player shop expansion, (more slot to sell stuff)

Golgotha
Oct 28, 2018, 05:20 PM
ep6 returning to ep1-3 update pattern would be an already unrealistic dream.
So Im just hoping they wont drop the ball like during ep5 and wont spend another 2 years buffing all classes and adding monthly chip alterations to the only new quest available.

Lostbob117
Oct 28, 2018, 05:30 PM
dropable AC scratch tickets in random EQ's
add a damn 30 day shop pass in the SG treasure shop cuz we need that


poor ideas

ArcaneTechs
Oct 28, 2018, 05:37 PM
dropable AC scratch tickets in random EQ's
add a damn 30 day shop pass in the SG treasure shop cuz we need that
Freemium struggles, this will never happen, youre not financially backing a company to output more content/keep the servers alive just by playing a F2P game and not actually buying anything with real money. You have FUN points for 3 day passes, EX cubes are easy to come by now a days.

AC Scratch tickets randomly droppable during EQ's

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390394379870666754/506234322710429706/raffs.JPG


13* units with SSA's
guranteed to be more utility SSA's than damage and if damage SSA's did happen, mostly like 1% and 2% increase at most with 3% being at max with prices soaring at around 70mill minimum but this would have to be at a point in the game where things are actually tough and call for this. Right now theres no point to it because no content warrants this


oh yeah and player shop expansion, (more slot to sell stuff)
im on board with this

Suirano
Oct 28, 2018, 07:27 PM
I would personally like Sega to do with they do with Featured Quests and Buster Quests across all quests and that is scaling HP and sometimes damage to the amount of players that are on the field. It would make fields like Enchanted Forest and Ultimate Quests more manageable during those times you would like to do something in them but can't get 12 people to handle stuff like a lvl 85 Anga ( and especially infuriating enemies like Diamos )

I mostly would like the HP more than anything to be scaled. It can be annoying running into a lvl 85 enemy and fighting something with a 12 player HP level. I also think that it might help revive some of the other things that are currently dead beyond just slapping a boost on it. I could be entirely wrong tho but it would be nice.

Kilich
Oct 29, 2018, 03:49 AM
I wonder if its even possible to get powercreep under control? Because, I think ep 1-3 were balanced for low power and low mobility small teams, or solo with npcs, doing free fields and occasionally meeting together for some mpa fun, so the enemies were complex. They had breakables, various sizes, ways to counter their attack patterns and there were only a few of them in the spawn, so they gave the players plenty of breathing room.
Now, even at this level of powercreep most enemies became diablo3 mobs. They come in just drop the loot in 3 seconds, so their complexity doesn't seem to go beyond ' a weak point somewhere obvious, a leap attack, a ranged attack, an aoe and spam all three' and while this might be the most competitive design for mpas, its rather boring for solo, or small teams.

GHNeko
Oct 29, 2018, 05:09 AM
oh right speaking of power creep

either throw 75% resist on to all the enemies or cut player damage by like 60%.

as much as i love hitting 1mil vintos we're entirely too strong now.

Zephyrion
Oct 29, 2018, 08:21 AM
oh right speaking of power creep

either throw 75% resist on to all the enemies or cut player damage by like 60%.

as much as i love hitting 1mil vintos we're entirely too strong now.

They've been doing that mostly in the form of adding more HP which equates to the same thing, if anything, coupled with damage cap, it makes damage output somehow a liiiil easier to control

Their assessment on how much extra HP stuff needs is a whole another can of worm I'd rather not open tho xD

Kilich
Oct 29, 2018, 08:40 AM
I think Extra Hard enemies having that much more hp is not very good for players that are fresh out of super hard, unless they already got their gear up to par.

Golgotha
Oct 29, 2018, 09:25 AM
I wonder if its even possible to get powercreep under control?
Ep1 was balanced around low mobility, because everything was brand new. When tower defences hit, and people started pentadashing, it was already too late.

Its not possible to control powercreep because players themselves don't want it.
You gotta farm fast, enemies should die fast, distance between enemies should be short, etc.

The same reason players don't want exploration or random fields or whatever, as in anything that will slow them down during their DO quickie rush to the boss.
Can YOU say with a straight face that you wan to spend more time on tasks so trivial that even thinking about them makes you yawn?

After multiple years instrumentality and profit will take priority, because old permanent players can't find the process interesting anymore.
Even in diablo clones – read: point and click control scheme – people constantly demand faster and more streamlined gameplay to optimize loot treadmill. They're not there to immerse themselves into beating up rockbear, because its the 8437587th rockbear since they first have seen it.

Technically you would need an incredibly flexible core gameplay to accomodate a lot of changes every few months to make things interesting without ramping up values by dozens. Something like being able to add mint rockbears on on anniversaries but basically every month. Or having enough depth in the game, where you wouldn't want or be able to spill 100% of the upcoming patch in the video, leaving something for players to discover.

Its probably impossible when your agenda is adding new system every 4 months, yet you can't simply alter the event field from last few years.

Kilich
Oct 29, 2018, 10:37 AM
For old players, yes, if there was a skip battle button, many would use it and find myself wanting that too, sometimes, because of how boring ep5 enemies are. Flame demon is kinda okay, with its attack variery, but its rare and most of other comparable enemies aren't even on his level.
But, I was talking more about newer players and those that solo, or play with a couple of friends, instead of rolling through the map with an mpa.

silo1991
Oct 29, 2018, 10:39 AM
if there is something that i like about phantasy star (and final fantasy also) is the fact of the enemies been so creative/witty , its a standard for me in these franchises .

what i ask is EP6 enemies to have the same vibe just like the whole series and not do an slothy shit like EP4 with the phantoms did (specially you yamato) .
EP5 demons were fine (so many tolkien fantasy but still they somehow gave me the same witty vibe i like)

more freefields with exploration just like shironia , facility and enchanted forest (also in the story they should give us a damm argument about why we keep fighting kuronites and demons)

more casino minigames and give us more reasons to go there because no matter the channel i go its always empty ,maybe adding a daily quest NPC there should be fine too (just like franka cafe)

give us more stuff to do in the bridge outside of story issues:

1 like monitoring darker activity (and maybe activity of the new enemies) around the planets and depending where we station the ship we get extra benefits
2 been able to spawn there ( maybe in our room too) if we logout there
3 maybe add an RTS minigame talking about the monitoring activity of the planets

Kilich
Oct 29, 2018, 11:14 AM
I wanted something like ARKS bases, or exploratory ships for a while to revive the old idea that most of ARKS are actually not photon capable and are very vulnerable. Remember the ARKS planes and all those destroyed tanks and corrupted turrets in the city em?

Basically, as you run around the map, you see a small field tent with ARKs npc that can give you a CO, or activates an EM for you, like the old mining/gathering/capturing/beize/darkchime, or whatever new codes they can think of,
Or you see an ARKS post, or a damaged spaceship that needs you to escort a plane/tank somewhere with your darkblast, or defend them like a mini TD. But for bigger codes, it might be better to make them like the rainbow teleports that led to a code in a separate space.

Golgotha
Oct 29, 2018, 11:45 AM
For old players, yes, if there was a skip battle button, many would use it and find myself wanting that too, sometimes, because of how boring ep5 enemies are. Flame demon is kinda okay, with its attack variery, but its rare and most of other comparable enemies aren't even on his level.
But, I was talking more about newer players and those that solo, or play with a couple of friends, instead of rolling through the map with an mpa.

For newer players its already like that, except for the part where pso2 enforces skipping all the stuff through bonus keys.
Theres no rebirth or any other recycling mechanic, people are encouraged to just leap to the level cap, to congregate all players together, because only the new stuff is updated anyway.

Which is probably source of the whole bunch of other issues. For example I started playing in ep1, and by now Im forgetting the order of things that you tend to unlock, either because it was so long ago and due to devs rabidly lifting all requirements so not to hinder players from hitting that 80 and "getting to the cool stuff".
Why update old quests if you can make players skip them.

So the good move to tone down the power creep would be having a different progression around more characters or releveling often?
Something like macro challenge mode, longer period over which players relevel from the start and get back gear, which might be spiced up by some special twist in fields. Its probably too cumbersome to perform at this rate, but topic wise its something I'd like to see - reason to replay the game and experience new things instead of waiting for a new 20 minute emergency and running ep4 quest with a rdr boost.

catwat
Oct 29, 2018, 01:40 PM
I would love it if they start spreading out the drops more over the quests. Not always EQ or boosted events so players just grind the same thing for 2 weeks. Would be nice if most of the quests become relevant again. I think they are somewhat trying to do that now with adding XH difficulties but that should have happened right when XH mode was released, just give every quest the option for that
More map patterns are needed too. Every map has the same 4 or 5 pieces so i hope they add more variety to the stages as well.

Dark Mits
Oct 29, 2018, 02:24 PM
Not being able to sell items and being forced to resort to TACOs and dailies for all my income is ultimately what killed my interest more than any gripe I had with the settings.I disagree with this. While TACOs and dailies are the "fixed 100% no-risk" way to have income, a lot of meseta can be made by either drawing AC scratch items and selling them to other players, as well as selling weapons and units with desirable abilities that drop from EQs. Plus, what are we doing with all these meseta? Just spending them on Dudu and other players.

new difficulty mode because lv 90 cap soon (req. lv 90 ofc)
recycle/trade unwanted 14*s for other 14*sStarting 7th November, Free Fields will get XH difficulty. I think they confirmed that they will be similar to Enchanted Forest (lvl80 mobs with lvl85 EC), but I'd prefer if they were lvl85 mobs with lvl90 EC.
At some point we will be able to convert 14*s to other items, just like we couldn't initially trade 13*s but we can now.

Now, even at this level of powercreep most enemies became diablo3 mobs. They come in just drop the loot in 3 seconds, so their complexity doesn't seem to go beyond ' a weak point somewhere obvious, a leap attack, a ranged attack, an aoe and spam all three' and while this might be the most competitive design for mpas, its rather boring for solo, or small teams.You forgot the other "amazing" feature that this "go go go" mentality brought: Enemies in certain areas do not drop items at all so that players are not "forced" to have their gameplay "ruined" by the "horrible" mechanic of collecting items in an RPG.

oh right speaking of power creep, either throw 75% resist on to all the enemies or cut player damage by like 60%. As much as i love hitting 1mil vintos we're entirely too strong now.Or stop having everything increase damage multiplicatively. This scaling method does not help decrease the gap between your average casual and the hardcorest hardcore. If anything, it works against game design because a lvl85 mob is both a hard hp sponge (for the lower equipped) and an easy pushover (for the better equipped).

vantpers
Oct 29, 2018, 02:52 PM
Or stop having everything increase damage multiplicatively. This scaling method does not help decrease the gap between your average casual and the hardcorest hardcore. If anything, it works against game design because a lvl85 mob is both a hard hp sponge (for the lower equipped) and an easy pushover (for the better equipped).
If anything, multiplicatively increasing/decreasing damage just boosts/nerfs everyone the same. Completely different thing with defense or attack stacking. The only way to decrease the gap between casual and hardcore is to actually aim for the gap. Like the affixing system you can't even work with without using outside resources when you want to affix something serious. Then we get small things like all class capping bonus to stats, retarded drink system that requires you to reroll/pay2win for weak/PA damage or lose a big chunk of damage and without giving clueless players the idea that the attack themed drink is actually poor damage, timed abilities that are once again a bothersome system only boosting hardcore players who bother preparing them for specific quest, or S-abilities that now lock even potential behind tens of millions in affixes at least.

MyNameIsHawk
Oct 29, 2018, 03:44 PM
i want get rid the main class only abilities on all skill trees and let people be creative whit the combination of their man and subclasses

Dark Mits
Oct 29, 2018, 04:09 PM
If anything, multiplicatively increasing/decreasing damage just boosts/nerfs everyone the same. Completely different thing with defense or attack stacking. The only way to decrease the gap between casual and hardcore is to actually aim for the gap. Like the affixing system you can't even work with without using outside resources when you want to affix something serious. Then we get small things like all class capping bonus to stats, retarded drink system that requires you to reroll/pay2win for weak/PA damage or lose a big chunk of damage and without giving clueless players the idea that the attack themed drink is actually poor damage, timed abilities that are once again a bothersome system only boosting hardcore players who bother preparing them for specific quest, or S-abilities that now lock even potential behind tens of millions in affixes at least.The convolutedness of this system is actually a great part of the meta-game of PSO2. Non-combat parts should be as important as combat parts (which is why I believe that exploring should also be made rewarding). The problem for me is that the benefit of doing all those you mentioned is too large. Hardcore people will always aim for the absolute best they can get. Making this "absolute best" however something like 5x or 10x better than the average is what breaks the game into these discussions of "omg enemies die too easily / omg enemies are hp sponges" and "omg enemies pose no threat at all / omg enemies instakill you without warning". If these bonuses worked additively instead of multiplicatively, players who follow those would still be above the rest in performance, and they should; just not at such large difference which makes 95% of the game irrelevant and a chore for them.

pkemr4
Oct 29, 2018, 04:31 PM
the option to join both expert and expert off rooms without having to change the setting. this is mainly for triggers though.

Lumpen Thingy
Oct 29, 2018, 05:32 PM
Subclass only skills, new ult quest, more weapons to be not just % damage but actually have other functions like the spread needle's spread shot, make old EQs daily raids with drops people will give a shit about,more weapons to have S4 affixes,actual race differences like SUVs or the lame rainbow hamster mode(beast mode), make collection files stuff we can do all the time instead of EQ only and make the weapons not be WORTHLESS when the CFs are up........ummm add beast race for PSU dank memes.

Ezodagrom
Oct 29, 2018, 05:53 PM
It's been a while since I played but.....honestly, if they allowed players to sell a limited number of items per week/day and the shop pass instead removed any limit, I might come back.

Not being able to sell items and being forced to resort to TACOs and dailies for all my income is ultimately what killed my interest more than any gripe I had with the settings.
If you have a good amount of excubes stocked and don't need to get more, there's a nice way to make meseta overtime without having to resort to TACOs. Exchanging 10* weapons from EQs for regular grinders and selling them on an NPC shop, you can make a few hundred thousands meseta from that per EQ session (around 200k~400k or so).

For me that was enough to get by, just playing the occasional EQ once in a while and selling grinders... until I got low on excubes and spent alot of meseta on equipment. xD
Now I'm recovering excubes until I have at least close to a full stack before I start recovering meseta again.

ArcaneTechs
Oct 29, 2018, 06:19 PM
-ADD A DAM DPS DUMMY/BOSS ROOM/MODE SO NOBODY HAS TO PARSE, I want to reliably learn and refine combo's without having to rush to Rodos for example. (i.e. just like fighting games training rooms)

-Update Casino Shop (i.e. add new clothing obtainable only from trading coins with new clothing rotations periodically, Casino Accessories, more Casino camos & 13/14* weapons, etc), make the games worth running off Casino Boosts and for solo play since not everyone wants to always be there unless its boosted

-Update Challenge Quest Shop along with a NEW challenge quest with an actual brand new area specifically made for CQ's and nothing reused from current maps

-Update Parallel Areas to appear a tiny bit more and be more rewarding with actual chances at good drops like 13/14* weapons, heck maybe some Parallel Area specific Weapons/Units or something. Get people running those fields a bit more (though this can be problematic in terms of grinding the fields and just boss rushing it)

-Rehaul BO skill tree
-Add more JB PA's
-Add or create T0 Dual Blade PA's that dont need to rely on Kestral T0 anymore

-Buff Knuckles so it can compete with TD and DS and give it something that will allow it not rely heavily on Gear Experience anymore



idk why I'm listing these, Sega doesnt even read this shit let alone come here much less understand my Google Translate JP

Suirano
Oct 29, 2018, 08:07 PM
-Snip

But these are all really good suggestions never the less. Definitely the DPS Dummy. PSO2 is one of the few games I have played that is damage heavy but gives no solid way to actually test the damage in a controlled way.

TehCubey
Oct 29, 2018, 09:00 PM
Simplify skill trees into a few meaningful choices, or possibly even no choices - which is basically what we have right now anyway. Customization has to be meaningful as opposed to a single (or in best case scenarios, a few) meta/vanilla pick and everything else being a trap to waste SPs into. Adjust damage output and enemy HP accordingly.


-ADD A DAM DPS DUMMY/BOSS ROOM/MODE SO NOBODY HAS TO PARSE, I want to reliably learn and refine combo's without having to rush to Rodos for example. (i.e. just like fighting games training rooms)

Also this. Even a simple dummy that tells you to deal X damage as quickly as possible or checks your damage total over Y seconds would be great. Make it Dudu-shaped.

Tunga
Oct 30, 2018, 08:26 AM
I was using castle in xh forest fot a dummy, the last part after you disble it i mean. But i doubt sega will add a dummy since spretty much no content has a strict dps check.

Zorak000
Oct 30, 2018, 11:05 AM
as it stands now, it seems like they're starting to shift into having single-party or solo content being geared towards the experienced players, while MPA content is going to slide farther into being for beginner/intermediate or casual players. I can't say I disagree with this style, since it lets newer players get carried semi-anonymously. then we got the dropped trigger rematch system, where poeple who feel they can't handle them can just sell them off for money to people who do, endless quest offering the higher-quality SSA capsules and the grind for EV abilities, and solo quests for various things.

but I guess what we could really use are some better tutorials, or some streamlining of things you need to get for some classes before they really begin to take off; they just started doing that with sword, now that you dont need sacrifice bite up 100% of the time just to keep up, so I guess we'll see how they continue this moving forward.

NightlightPro
Oct 30, 2018, 01:28 PM
I'd like to see 4ppl EQ

i know we got 8 ppl but 4 ppl would be nice to have
(like a rematch but more fun)

Kondibon
Oct 30, 2018, 04:12 PM
I don't even care if it tells DPS or not, I just want a way to reliably test how things work mechanically, without needing to worry about accidentally killing the thing I'm testing on and finding a new one. Something like the Dojo in Warframe, where you can pick the enemies you want, what level they are, and whether or not they're aggressive. They don't even need to make a new map, just throw it in the XQ area.

ArcaneTechs
Oct 30, 2018, 08:09 PM
I was using castle in xh forest fot a dummy, the last part after you disble it i mean. But i doubt sega will add a dummy since spretty much no content has a strict dps check.
its a not a matter if theres no content for DPS checks (with how little DPS checks there are in this game) but a matter of letting me test and just practice things especially if for example, I took like half a year off the game, I want to be able to come back and practice on something rather than throw myself into an EQ and not be as efficient I was I was before


I don't even care if it tells DPS or not, I just want a way to reliably test how things work mechanically, without needing to worry about accidentally killing the thing I'm testing on and finding a new one. Something like the Dojo in Warframe, where you can pick the enemies you want, what level they are, and whether or not they're aggressive. They don't even need to make a new map, just throw it in the XQ area.
EXACTLY

Golgotha
Oct 31, 2018, 03:19 AM
You'd only need detailed infometrics for that. A character window calculating how much all palette attacks would do with current boosts.

What you actually need to know isn't arbitrary damage value. With lvl85 health values going through the roof, you'd probably want to immediately know how much impact your current punches do instead of bashing big white digits out of seemingly immortal enemy. So you could be able to tell if you can defeat it in reasonable time, if you could see a health bar.
I see this being much more convenient addition rather than yet another quest with big enemies that dont drop anything. We have quite a few of those already.

Kilich
Oct 31, 2018, 09:45 AM
Make basewear hiding innerwear into an option, instead of innerwear being useless for half of costumes. Also, an option to hide legwear, because these thighhigh boots and stockings everywhere often are ill fitting.

Kondibon
Oct 31, 2018, 10:08 AM
You'd only need detailed infometrics for that. A character window calculating how much all palette attacks would do with current boosts.

What you actually need to know isn't arbitrary damage value. With lvl85 health values going through the roof, you'd probably want to immediately know how much impact your current punches do instead of bashing big white digits out of seemingly immortal enemy. So you could be able to tell if you can defeat it in reasonable time, if you could see a health bar.
I see this being much more convenient addition rather than yet another quest with big enemies that dont drop anything. We have quite a few of those already.
I dunno about Kril, but for me it's not about testing actual damage output, it's about testing mechanics in a controlled environment. The game has a bunch of stuff that would be easier to test/practice in a vacuum, like Vol/Banish combos, figuring out how and when certain skills actually proc, and actually being able to compare enemies with various levels of defense and resistance without running back and forth.

Knowing how much damage a PA does is useless without all the other factors, like frame time, and JA timing anyway.

Tunga
Nov 1, 2018, 09:13 PM
On the topic of bo tree rehaul, i wonder why sega doesnt add a critical damage buff to critical field. That would add some raid utility to bouncer and make that field usefull bcuz MUH DAMAGE. 5% would be decent atleast imo.

SteveCZ
Nov 1, 2018, 11:07 PM
On the topic of bo tree rehaul, i wonder why sega doesnt add a critical damage buff to critical field. That would add some raid utility to bouncer and make that field usefull bcuz MUH DAMAGE. 5% would be decent atleast imo.

The fact that they prefer Bouncer as a support-type all rounder that excels with range, I can only guess that they only let other classes (like fi and gu) to get damage benefit from crit instead of bouncer itself. =/

Golgotha
Nov 2, 2018, 03:42 AM
Bouncer has a support label that automatically makes its potential worse than any mainline class. Plus, developers strongly believe that its supposed to use techs. Because otherwise I'm not sure how its supposed to excel in range, if any possible attack outside of pbf requires you to stick to the targets face.

So, if anything that needs rehaul there first, its their outlook on bouncer archetype.


I dunno about Kril, but for me it's not about testing actual damage output, it's about testing mechanics in a controlled environment. The game has a bunch of stuff that would be easier to test/practice in a vacuum, like Vol/Banish combos, figuring out how and when certain skills actually proc, and actually being able to compare enemies with various levels of defense and resistance without running back and forth.

Knowing how much damage a PA does is useless without all the other factors, like frame time, and JA timing anyway.
It would be immensely easier to test them even in normal conditions, if most of the mechanics had a transcription and indication connected with the effect. Right now even some PA output is impossible to read when it throws a dozen of overlapping random digits. You have to guess most of the stuff, has this stance worked right now? Did TAJA activate? Did TAJA based after effects activate? Overwhelming amount of elements will need at least some feedback instead of letting you guess even harder in dojo. Theres exclusive effects to display working cumulative damage SSAF and Dia potential, but none for the most basic things that affect more than one weapon in the game.
Its silly that they keep obscuring all these mechanics (with even standing snipe indicator being a ring and not a built in feature) after making FOUR different tutorial courses, counting VR tutorials, arks road, Leontina and several series of youtube videos where they spend ungodly amount of time explaining how to use Photon arts or how to affix Power I.

GHNeko
Nov 2, 2018, 08:21 AM
Its silly that they keep obscuring all these mechanics (with even standing snipe indicator being a ring and not a built in feature) after making FOUR different tutorial courses, counting VR tutorials, arks road, Leontina and several series of youtube videos where they spend ungodly amount of time explaining how to use Photon arts or how to affix Power I.

cant explain too much of the game or else it loses the "magic" :wacko:

Kilich
Nov 2, 2018, 10:49 AM
To be fair, we are talking about a company that didn't have a QA team for pso2 until after the game deleted a chunk of player hdds. And the company that after hero's release decided to force the entire game to fit hero, instead of changing the class to fit the game.

Atmius
Nov 2, 2018, 01:12 PM
Here's what I'd like from episode 6:
- drop vita support
- allow a proper graphics tier that doesn't render all models apart from your own with lower quality textures
- allow a proper depth of field/object de-spawning range akin to the old mod tool
- not to fuck up class balance with phantoms release by repeating the hero introduction (nerf everything, add hero, spend the entire episode unfucking the nerfs and overbuffing everything resulting in a sizeable lack of content)
- re-add unique units as code rewards akin to episode 1/2, where there was a great variety of units even if a lot of them were bad, where you could actively put in effort and farm them at your own discretion (and make a killing selling the good ones), possibly re-adding unit set bonuses for them.
- add 12* unit/13* weapon trading/selling already, don't hold it off for 3 fucking years for no reason just to piss people off
- make whatever planet or area that's added actually spawn its associated unit install crystals in whatever fields or content it has, none of this omega bullshit where the only place you can get omega crystals is from the buster medal exchange even though it has a free field

That's all that comes to mind for now, but there's more i'm sure.

Tunga
Nov 2, 2018, 01:51 PM
The fact that they prefer Bouncer as a support-type all rounder that excels with range, I can only guess that they only let other classes (like fi and gu) to get damage benefit from crit instead of bouncer itself. =/

Ah yes the descriptions sega gave that let us know they dont know how their own game works. But i do wonder what theoretical boost an mpa could get with the crit field +5% dmg stcked with shifta critical (for classes without any sort of crit boost).

vantpers
Nov 2, 2018, 02:07 PM
Don't even start with Sega's class designations. They seemingly know the only role in the game is DPS and Support (passive buff to party's DPS and sometimes mob grouping with techs or status effect application), with support being less relevant than DPS (hence a Techer per MPA, not a Gunner per 11 Techers) . That's why we had DPS and support being the only two real roles mentioned. Rest was just All Rounder/Universal/All Rounder with X which says absolutely nothing, and generally it shows that all the DPS designations (Fighter, Gunner) as a rule were just so much better all around than anything else, besides maybe Hero's Universal.

They should just be honest with themselves and group the classes by things that actually matter, by which I mean single target power, multi target power, performance against aggressive enemies (by which I mean mostly the ability to keep doing damage while evading damage, or just tank damage while doing damage), and support. Maybe it would hit them with some ideas than Gunner would have maxed the 3 mentioned things aside from support, and how Sega should limit easy dodge buttons or dodge-and-do-damage buttons on classes that already have the DPS.

FantasyHeaven
Nov 3, 2018, 03:11 AM
raid utility
made me laugh

Golgotha
Nov 3, 2018, 07:49 AM
Don't even start with Sega's class designations. They seemingly know the only role in the game is DPS and Support

Their recent descriptions were mostly Allrounder roles with some range and maneuver variations.
They wouldn't want to group them by narrowed purposes like single or multi range, because endgame relies on you being able to do all of that at once, and classes quickly fall off the pop chart if they can't at least efficiently reach the enemy.
And if they will keep using skill trees only to dump step jumps and JA effects in there, thers not much hope for more.

vantpers
Nov 3, 2018, 09:18 AM
Their recent descriptions were mostly Allrounder roles with some range and maneuver variations.
That's the point, All Rounder is there precisely because they couldn't name any other real roles so they threw a meaningless word there with obvious secondary descriptors like "range". Just ask yourself what Hunter really does that Fighter or Gunner can't, same with Braver or Bouncer or even Hero.

Endgame was also fine when we had more pronounced single/multi target difference like Ra/Br in TD and even early EP3 Fi/Hu versus Fo/Te . The only problem is when Sega forces solo quests on players where classes can't support each other, and then does retarded balancing like in Gu's situation where they had to bring mobbing from meh to god tier for no reason. Sure to my classification a mobility stat would also be neede though.

Golgotha
Nov 3, 2018, 11:10 AM
Allrounder requirement became much more prominent with ult and post-ult enemies that aren't very forgiving to gunslash tier mechanics.
They're not forcing solo quests, they're supplying content to solo players.

So what you're having in the end is that somehow theres not many people that want to level up a raid mop which can't deal with new enemy, because the class somehow isn't suitable to killing flying targets or moving targets or something else.

Balance itself is a whole different topic, because for instance they could have just updated Gunner's PAs to a less clunky and faster shape instead of bundling sroll arts to 85 (for whatever reason), since a lot of them hardly made sense even during their release. Then theres 30 atk passive skills, we could go on forever really.

PS: can you name any "real" roles that won't turn automatching into a nightmare of people instaleaving the mpa if it doesnt have dedicated buffers, scaffolders and scuba divers? Looks like people already hated that dual ether EQ disfavored compound charging.

Kilich
Nov 3, 2018, 11:40 AM
I think in ep2-3 they thought of Hunter as a party defense, given that his block protected those behind him, Fo as AoE, Te as buffs, Fi as a high risk, very high DPS, Ra as a turret and debuff dispenser, Gu as a boss fighter DPS that relied on Chain, Br as a class that could switch between high mobility mobbing with katana combat and boss fighting with bow.

XrosBlader821
Nov 3, 2018, 11:51 AM
I think in ep2-3 they thought of Hunter as a party defense, given that his block protected those behind him, Fo as AoE, Te as buffs, Fi as a high risk, very high DPS, Ra as a turret and debuff dispenser, Gu as a boss fighter DPS that relied on Chain, Br as a class that could switch between high mobility mobbing with katana combat and boss fighting with bow.

Needless to say they failed on most of these class descriptions.
Hunter did f*ckall to increase party defense and back in the day it was an even bigger Subclass slut than it currently is, Fi was a bloody mess before Limit break and EP3 Skill Tree revamp hit it, the only debuff Ra ever did was Weak bullet. the other bullet types might have as well not existed (and they still kinda don't), Te Shifta/Deband wasn't even that good until EP3 hit, Hybrid Br still isn't as viable as Hybrid Bo is.

vantpers
Nov 3, 2018, 12:25 PM
Allrounder requirement became much more prominent with ult and post-ult enemies that aren't very forgiving to gunslash tier mechanics.

Except enemies shouldn't be forgiving. That's the point. Having just a tiny bit of inconvenience when not doing teamwork isn't anything bad.


They're not forcing solo quests, they're supplying content to solo players.

Previously you couldn't become an expert where most people played without doing a solo quest. Now there is also the party method. On the other hand we have solo PD which due to the drops did force players to play solo, next solo quest incoming that are supposedly super hard, and obviously Endless that offers rewards for solo play only.


So what you're having in the end is that somehow theres not many people that want to level up a raid mop which can't deal with new enemy, because the class somehow isn't suitable to killing flying targets or moving targets or something else.

Well that's the point of playing in an MPA. Technically you're not supposed to deal with the big boss alone, and he has health that isn't balanced for a single player. There should exist universal classes that can deal with everything but they should be paying the DPS tax compared to specialist classes. The only bad thing is really doing single target/multi target distinctions while providing quests like raid bosses only, or featuring a few mobs at the beginning. I wouldn't mind Sega moving away from those but only in favour of other distinctions and trying not to make mobbing only classes.



PS: can you name any "real" roles that won't turn automatching into a nightmare of people instaleaving the mpa if it doesnt have dedicated buffers, scaffolders and scuba divers? Looks like people already hated that dual ether EQ disfavored compound charging.

Nobody leaves MPA if they don't have Techer to provide 10% damage and Deband Toughness so that's one. Same thing if Sega gave the ability to gather aggro of more annoying secondary damage sources like gunships or Apprentice's bugs, so a minor tank role that doesn't overwrite the ability to dodge shit, but merely gives attack opportunities. Couple that with classes that work bad when aggro'd by the boss and classes that get bonus damage when parrying attacks as another distinction. Same with putting status on things.


I think in ep2-3 they thought of Hunter as a party defense, given that his block protected those behind him, Fo as AoE, Te as buffs, Fi as a high risk, very high DPS, Ra as a turret and debuff dispenser, Gu as a boss fighter DPS that relied on Chain, Br as a class that could switch between high mobility mobbing with katana combat and boss fighting with bow.
Hunter and defense has always been a funny thing. In the end Sega forgot to at least no give War Cry and Hunter's most powerful defensive skills to anyone who subs it. JG covering people behind you is super rare too. At least War Attract kinda lets you gather aggro much more easily on top of having the boss under jellen. Technically you could start tanking some bosses right now, but nobody will really notice given how almost every class doesn't mind getting hammered by the boss with all those defensive abilities and safety skills.

XrosBlader821
Nov 3, 2018, 01:01 PM
Previously you couldn't become an expert where most people played without doing a solo quest. Now there is also the party method. On the other hand we have solo PD which due to the drops did force players to play solo, next solo quest incoming that are supposedly super hard, and obviously Endless that offers rewards for solo play only.
Yeah and Expert matching is so much fun now that any hack can get carried by their team into a matching type that was supposed to separate good players from bad ones by testing the individual in question.


Well that's the point of playing in an MPA. Technically you're not supposed to deal with the big boss alone, and he has health that isn't balanced for a single player. There should exist universal classes that can deal with everything but they should be paying the DPS tax compared to specialist classes. The only bad thing is really doing single target/multi target distinctions while providing quests like raid bosses only, or featuring a few mobs at the beginning. I wouldn't mind Sega moving away from those but only in favour of other distinctions and trying not to make mobbing only classes.
PSO2 has always been and always will be an Action game first and RPG second. The difference between the classes has always been only on a playstyle basis and not on a class synergy basis.


Nobody leaves MPA if they don't have Techer to provide 10% damage and Deband Toughness so that's one. Same thing if Sega gave the ability to gather aggro of more annoying secondary damage sources like gunships or Apprentice's bugs, so a minor tank role that doesn't overwrite the ability to dodge shit, but merely gives attack opportunities. Couple that with classes that work bad when aggro'd by the boss and classes that get bonus damage when parrying attacks as another distinction. Same with putting status on things.
People did leave when there was no Ranger back when Weak bullet gave 255% Damage and not 20% when dealing with Magatsu. You see Magatsu's HP were balanced with Weak Bullet in mind so once you lack a Weak bullet in your MPA the fight will drag on forever. Same thing can be applied to what you suggested. If you make enemy attacks too reliant on people taking aggro for them then the players will have a miserable time dealing with the enemy once that certain class is missing. Thats why enemy patterns need to be designed around every class in a vacuum.

vantpers
Nov 3, 2018, 01:23 PM
Yeah and Expert matching is so much fun now that any hack can get carried by their team into a matching type that was supposed to separate good players from bad ones by testing the individual in question.


PSO2 has always been and always will be an Action game first and RPG second. The difference between the classes has always been only on a playstyle basis and not on a class synergy basis.


People did leave when there was no Ranger back when Weak bullet gave 255% Damage and not 20% when dealing with Magatsu. You see Magatsu's HP were balanced with Weak Bullet in mind so once you lack a Weak bullet in your MPA the fight will drag on forever. Same thing can be applied to what you suggested. If you make enemy attacks too reliant on people taking aggro for them then the players will have a miserable time dealing with the enemy once that certain class is missing. Thats why enemy patterns need to be designed around every class in a vacuum.

Problem was, even the solo version was prone to what players considered cheese. Hero floating in the air and doing Srank with 0 risk or similar. Ironically people wouldn't consider for example some guy running stage 4 entirely on corner whack unga bunga with halfline cheese, even though it IS pretty cheesy all things considering. It's just that it's a tactic that can be used in real applications in MPA content. Following this line of thought we can sure argue whether doing solo content is always a good test of MPA prowess or even fair with class imbalance. But we're not even supposed to go on about that, as in the end the game does head to solo content focus.

Class playstyles also suffer from general all roundeness. We've been eliminating slowness from the classes since some time, you can't really play real MH-style Greatsword here. Almost everyone needs to have some brainless AoE spam to compete in mobbing so the playstyles converge here too. Even in regards to the newest Sword Hunter buffs many people complain that they buffed mostly Ignite Parrying and the class just needs a simple press button to unload tons of DPS ability. Look at Fighter, if anything the supposedly high risk class has just been getting tons of safety buffs with Deadly Circle craft, Slow Fighter action, Gear Experience for aggressive enemies or LBI stacked with Iron Will. Synergy is needed because actual playstyle differences will result in different strengths and weaknesses. A perfectly high risk/high reward class would struggle with high intensity mobbing versus aggressive enemies for example, which would facilitate a small bit of synergy with a class that can allow itself to get hit plenty or has easier time not getting hit and some aggro skills. But because we consider Fighter alone versus everything we need to dial down on the high risk part (not high reward tho).

Yeah WB was too powerful and I've been saying it too, it was also boring. Techer is too similarly a mostly passive buff to party DPS yet it's not a big deal because the percentages are more balanced. The problem is obviously just balancing the things so it's not too hard, and not too easy. No class is meant to just die when the boss looks at it, but it's at least supposed to severely limit its damage and get in considerable danger. No "tank"? Sure you will have kinda bad time with the boss switching aggro too much and limit everyone's DPS but it won't be bad enough to force you to abandon. Then just make sure that the same role can be fulfilled by a few classes and not only one slice of player population.

Golgotha
Nov 3, 2018, 08:23 PM
Pronounced roles in mmorpgs exist because its their mainstay gameplay mechanic. In pso2 theres an action element that absolutely decides whether you will die in two hits or snap new boss so hard that they'll have to patch it next week. Pso2 has class roles too, its just they don't have to be cripples while at that and dont have to bench this quest because they're "not needed". It also helps that 99% of PSO2 gameplay is about reaching the enemy and ripping its head off, so it will also narrow down the options.



Well that's the point of playing in an MPA.

The point of MPA is actually just playing together with other players. Enemies being tougher and in bigger numbers is just an accomodation to mpa size. Theres no rule that mpa is exclusively assembled to give players better opportunity to reach a flock of birds that they couldnt finish off on their own.



Nobody leaves MPA if

Nobody leaves MPA because they're punished for leaving. Forget ranger, players left magatsu for knees broken on right turn, because it was already clear that it will be lost. At the same time, 4 prepared gunners could instakill the same boss.
Its not just about gunner's role, right? Cause the potential full mpa of ep3 might contain 6-8 gunners that will also horribly fail the quest after using up all the stage gimmicks, even though they would know about chain trigger and even use it. What is going on in there?

People also did mass quit Falz Loser if it slogs a little bit. Forget about timeout, overmiraging or early clock break, they quit it because it TOOK LONGER. Again, simple rules, no special classes needed, but quest was a gamble every time.

I'm trying to say that skill variance is much more important here than class archetypes. Supports would only feel worse in situation where they need to efficiently back up "damage dealers" and tanks that attack and evade worse than supports themselves.

You want to saturate this mess with some more necessary actions being done at obscenely varying quality or what, I dont exactly get it. I dont understand what you want to introduce.

Tunga
Nov 4, 2018, 01:31 AM
If i had one suggestion it would be to scrap the cancerous affixing system. But were too far late into the game for something like that.

Kilich
Nov 4, 2018, 03:21 AM
Except enemies shouldn't be forgiving. That's the point. Having just a tiny bit of inconvenience when not doing teamwork isn't anything bad.

Hunter and defense has always been a funny thing. In the end Sega forgot to at least no give War Cry and Hunter's most powerful defensive skills to anyone who subs it. JG covering people behind you is super rare too. At least War Attract kinda lets you gather aggro much more easily on top of having the boss under jellen. Technically you could start tanking some bosses right now, but nobody will really notice given how almost every class doesn't mind getting hammered by the boss with all those defensive abilities and safety skills.

Yes, I think that enemies should be punishing, but for that they need to be slower and more complex with telegraphed attacks. But for slower mobs to pose a challenge, the players also need to be slower and that was made impossible with Hero that pulled other classes to its level and the multitude of safety skills and potentials.

Also, yes, that class role vision has failed, but at least its still a vision. One they could potentially return to, even if they'll need to hammer down some nails like Hero and Gu/Fi and skills that really should be main class only.

vantpers
Nov 4, 2018, 07:29 AM
Pronounced roles in mmorpgs exist because its their mainstay gameplay mechanic. In pso2 theres an action element that absolutely decides whether you will die in two hits or snap new boss so hard that they'll have to patch it next week. Pso2 has class roles too, its just they don't have to be cripples while at that and dont have to bench this quest because they're "not needed". It also helps that 99% of PSO2 gameplay is about reaching the enemy and ripping its head off, so it will also narrow down the options.


The point of MPA is actually just playing together with other players. Enemies being tougher and in bigger numbers is just an accomodation to mpa size. Theres no rule that mpa is exclusively assembled to give players better opportunity to reach a flock of birds that they couldnt finish off on their own.


Nobody leaves MPA because they're punished for leaving. Forget ranger, players left magatsu for knees broken on right turn, because it was already clear that it will be lost. At the same time, 4 prepared gunners could instakill the same boss.
Its not just about gunner's role, right? Cause the potential full mpa of ep3 might contain 6-8 gunners that will also horribly fail the quest after using up all the stage gimmicks, even though they would know about chain trigger and even use it. What is going on in there?

People also did mass quit Falz Loser if it slogs a little bit. Forget about timeout, overmiraging or early clock break, they quit it because it TOOK LONGER. Again, simple rules, no special classes needed, but quest was a gamble every time.

I'm trying to say that skill variance is much more important here than class archetypes. Supports would only feel worse in situation where they need to efficiently back up "damage dealers" and tanks that attack and evade worse than supports themselves.

You want to saturate this mess with some more necessary actions being done at obscenely varying quality or what, I dont exactly get it. I dont understand what you want to introduce.

The action element and skill variance has been slowly disappearing from PSO2. Lots of best clears of your random TA-like are concentrated mainly on removing the need to dodge and then just putting yourself in the right place for maximum AoE and just the AI, to simplify. Similarly several classes reach their peak DPS by just concentrating on attacking with 0 thought in defense.

More importantly slight roles PSO2 from time to time had resulted from actual pronounced class differences and were conductive to action combat, more so that letting every player also tank (as in take a whole lot of red numbers to the face, not gather aggro and hold it) damage without losing DPS. Classes had different AoE capabilities that weren't as spammy, different mobility and different ability to dodge enemies and keep attacking. Sega is currently trying too much to homogenize everything which results in even harsher class balance feedback because OP classes overwrite the usefulness of nearly everything, instead of you still having some leeway cause other class is made for something else.

XrosBlader821
Nov 4, 2018, 08:38 AM
The action element and skill variance has been slowly disappearing from PSO2. Lots of best clears of your random TA-like are concentrated mainly on removing the need to dodge and then just putting yourself in the right place for maximum AoE and just the AI, to simplify. Similarly several classes reach their peak DPS by just concentrating on attacking with 0 thought in defense.

What you're describing right here is a Subclass system issue. Yes, everyone who uses Hunter as a Subclass doesn't give a rats ass about incoming damage thanks to Iron Will and Automate, sometimes even Massive Hunter but you cannot say the same about classes like Te/Fi, Te/Br, Bo/Fi, Fi/Br, Fo/Te and classes like Gu/Fi and Hr are heavily incentivised to dodge incoming attacks, dodge being a defensive maneuver. And this Issue was present since the moment the Subclass system originally came out so lets not pretend like that's something new.

ZerotakerZX
Nov 4, 2018, 09:42 AM
Cun content, what content got cut?

vantpers
Nov 4, 2018, 10:20 AM
What you're describing right here is a Subclass system issue. Yes, everyone who uses Hunter as a Subclass doesn't give a rats ass about incoming damage thanks to Iron Will and Automate, sometimes even Massive Hunter but you cannot say the same about classes like Te/Fi, Te/Br, Bo/Fi, Fi/Br, Fo/Te and classes like Gu/Fi and Hr are heavily incentivised to dodge incoming attacks, dodge being a defensive maneuver. And this Issue was present since the moment the Subclass system originally came out so lets not pretend like that's something new.
It's not system issue, it's Hunter's tree issue where a couple of bad decisions from EP3 made Automated Halfline and Iron Will too easily available due do skill tree repositioning and lots more of available SP without being able to use those SP to spec into other viable playstyles, therefore facing relative damage penalty for using those skills. Te/Fi, Te/Br, Fi/Br, Bo/Fi all have problems of not being meta overall, partially due to their downfall in not being braindead. Fo/Te still has the access to lol instant restas and being able to make up HP difference with units, on top of being given plenty of powerful defensive tools, and lower risk playstyle. Gu/Fi is a lol, it doesn't have to dodge. You're pressing the dodge button but you're smashing it to do damage, which is equivalent of saying that dashing around with step is dodging. High altitude, passively being covered in iframes and movement when doing most of its damage, and high affinity with lifeleech make the point moot, cause in the end Gu/Fi taking on a room of aggressive mobs is about as cheesy as Hu/Fi. Hero technically is the class to finally solve the problems with Hunter sub, too bad it's also easy to play with low risk moves like main single target DPS being a range attack with a bit of iframes on the beginning and a whole lot of movement to either side.

Kilich
Nov 4, 2018, 12:13 PM
Are there any statistics for console and pc player %? Maybe the trend that started with Hero is due to pso2 having mostly console players.

Tunga
Nov 4, 2018, 11:31 PM
Are there any statistics for console and pc player %? Maybe the trend that started with Hero is due to pso2 having mostly console players.

This game started on PC for years before going to ps4 (ps4 jpn version only) i doubt console players had any effect on hero.

Dark Mits
Nov 5, 2018, 02:02 AM
Yes, I think that enemies should be punishing, but for that they need to be slower and more complex with telegraphed attacks. But for slower mobs to pose a challenge, the players also need to be slower and that was made impossible with Hero that pulled other classes to its level and the multitude of safety skills and potentials.Slowing down the game isn't necessary. Enemies are already punishing. The issue is that we have ways to recover from their punishment that are exceedingly overpowered. As I have said multiple times when this discussion comes up, if you can recover back to full hp either passively or actively with minimal effort (or even no effort at all), then anything that isn't a direct instant-kill is as if it didn't happen.

Those Minotaurs in Enchanted Forest charge you for about 15% of your max health (depending on class/subclass and equipment of course). That 15% would build to something threatening if you didn't passively recover it entirely through just attacking (lifesteal is op when it ticks 30 per attack multiple times per second), or from a single non-charged Resta tick, or even from 2-3 attacks after casting Megiverse; because it would pile up and require you to start avoiding attacks.

Why was Phaleg a challenge? Because of the healing debuff, not because of her damage or the time limit. You couldn't treat Phaleg like your average boss where you say "Hit me, I will recuperate anyway". You had to avoid her damage not because it would instantly kill you but because it would kill you through attrition. But players didn't like that, so Sega had to remove the notion that the HP bar should be an HP bar, and instead made it an on/off switch.

Kilich
Nov 5, 2018, 04:28 AM
Healing is a safety skill, yes. But I do think that slowing the game is needed, both to create mobs with more complex attacks/defenses that you can counter with movement, or by breaking their parts and giving players more breathing room and playstyles that benefit from teamwork.
Maybe its just me, but the current game is about dashing between spawns, that grew much more aggresive and often have quick knockdown and ranged attacks, that get insta-nuked and spending time in i-frames as you deplete hp of the damage sponges that mini-bosses and bosses have turned into.
And I miss ep 1-3 times where being fast and mobile was either skill, or a drawback.
Also, didn't limit break back then reduce your hp to 1?

vantpers
Nov 5, 2018, 05:33 AM
LB was introduced in EP3. It was more dangerous back then because you had relatively less hp. Enchanted Forest mobs still hit for often way less damage than Ultimate Naberius mobs (EP5 vs EP3 content). Sure they are more aggressive, but we also had big progress in our defences. Even more SP for your Hunter tree to take whatever you need from it, units went from PP crafted Saiki making lots of people glass for that PP to crazy 7s affixed Izane that makes you tanky and with more than enough PP/Attack. Then we even got Rappy Shine.

Golgotha
Nov 5, 2018, 07:46 AM
Theres lvl85 enemies that hit for over 700 sometimes, so Its more of a stagnant progression than anything else probably.
Current pso2 direction is also listening to players so closely that they simply make what they ask for, like heres lbi skill for example.


The action element and skill variance has been slowly disappearing from PSO2. Lots of best clears of your random TA-like are concentrated mainly on removing the need to dodge and then just putting yourself in the right place for maximum AoE and just the AI, to simplify. Similarly several classes reach their peak DPS by just concentrating on attacking with 0 thought in defense.

More importantly slight roles PSO2 from time to time had resulted from actual pronounced class differences and were conductive to action combat, more so that letting every player also tank (as in take a whole lot of red numbers to the face, not gather aggro and hold it) damage without losing DPS. Classes had different AoE capabilities that weren't as spammy, different mobility and different ability to dodge enemies and keep attacking. Sega is currently trying too much to homogenize everything which results in even harsher class balance feedback because OP classes overwrite the usefulness of nearly everything, instead of you still having some leeway cause other class is made for something else.
I dunno if anything there is disappearing, it was never not the focus on dps. You would either collapse on 3panther forest extreme quest, or you just stunlock all three of them and finish it in a few seconds.

Thats how action and rpg mechanics will always compete with each other. The difference between building yourself into a tank and dodging is that the dodging efficiency relies purely on how player performs. Putting up gear check as more accessible and competitive form of defence would devalue the dodging mechanics and reduce reason to make different enemy attacks as well. I'd also argue that adding even more element and weapontype based factors on top of breaking parts and aiming at weak points would add a lot of rigidity to gameplay and make it much less fluid so to accomodate all different playstyles.

Despite that RPGsystems-wise you have 3 defences and 6 elements, you can't exactly build around specific protections in pso2, and also it makes no sense to do so, because you ultimately need to fight everything. Theres thunder-only enemies, but its not like you have the insulation armor ready in the bag, outside of status removal theres no "protection from lightning" buffs to throw in emergency or anything. Around the baseline you just stack def really.
I mean, it was designed like that from the beginning, its a bit to late to rotate entire game around closer attention to how damage calculation resolves. And I dunno if it would really come out as fun as it sounds. Why learn how to fight Aratron if you are well-geared against lightning and strike attack?

Theres a lot of existing stuff obscured too, but we are not getting anything in this field as long as they leaving artifacts like a-type launcher unattended just because vocal players don't pay attention to it. Its a bigger and more fundamental problem to me that CORE elements don't work or just abandoned rather that game meta isn't entirely something else, deeper or skill based whatever.

vantpers
Nov 5, 2018, 11:39 AM
Amazingly in EP2 you didn't have any class if I remember correctly that could be as tanky as lots of melee and even Ranged classes now without having penalized damage.

Also tanking in action game shouldn't just about stacking resist. A bit of HP to be more comfortable but more importantly the ability to avoid damage easier. Not only in timing but also in things like Deus in Hunar form, who has a lingering hitbox that can't be stepped through but can be easily parried, and also the ability to deal damage while avoiding damage. We should precisely go less into stat differences based on how much meseta you put in gear and more, and more into class and tree choices causing differences.

KatsuraJun
Nov 5, 2018, 01:13 PM
Classes had different AoE capabilities that weren't as spammy,

People literally used to put 3 of the same PA on each line of their palette because spamming is all people did.
We went through months of people spamming shit like ilmegid, shunka, infintiy fire, etc.


different mobility

Ah yes, I too enjoyed the difference in mobility between classes, such as impotently chasing after mob spawns in TD as a Hu main. Nah, I think things are better now.

SteveCZ
Nov 5, 2018, 01:49 PM
People put 3 of the same PA in some of their palettes back then isn't necessarily for spamming, but because the PAs need to be done in different orders in different situations. You can't do that in a single "combo" palette like we are now. Not to mention that earlier episodes before eps 3, there are only a good chunk of PAs and techs that are literally useful if you want to clear things fast, with anything else as utility (usually bound to TA in the end) making the 2 button mode even more useless in terms of making variative combo. It's also especially troubling for classes that have more weapons and more specialized potentials. These are reasons why the 2 button mode was a flaw.

Now, you can call PAs in random order with 3 button mode, there is no reason for same PA order anymore, and PAs are getting even more balanced than ever before since episode 3 started, making variative combo possible with more weapon palettes available for more different weapons, not just combo anymore. So things are better now in that case.

KatsuraJun
Nov 5, 2018, 01:53 PM
That's true in some cases, but there's absolutely cases where you could use the 2button combo palette, like boss DPS rotations.

Of course, nobody did that and just spammed the same thing repeatedly.

Golgotha
Nov 5, 2018, 05:12 PM
Amazingly in EP2 you didn't have any class if I remember correctly that could be as tanky as lots of melee and even Ranged classes now without having penalized damage.

Also tanking in action game shouldn't just about stacking resist. A bit of HP to be more comfortable but more importantly the ability to avoid damage easier. Not only in timing but also in things like Deus in Hunar form, who has a lingering hitbox that can't be stepped through but can be easily parried, and also the ability to deal damage while avoiding damage. We should precisely go less into stat differences based on how much meseta you put in gear and more, and more into class and tree choices causing differences.

In ep2 you also had no specific solo challenges to play with and no death mixer quests with horde of enemies spinning their unobvious hitboxes around all at once, as youre bombarded by 16 corrupt cores. All those apostle dragons and phalegs might require some hp and def compensation.

I'm still not exactly sure what you think this game "should" be, so far it looks like you want to kite around the boss, because it should be the only way to kill it. But that maybe won't benefit the game?

I would understand Bouncer tree having a choice between broader support aoe effects and pbf spreading more buffs, for example. Or hunter choosing between more countering opportunities versus extra damage boosts for taking hits more often. Do you mean something like this? It wouldn't require reinventing the wheel and could be actually liberating to experiment with, right? Its kinda stupid to hope for such overhaul, but yeah, this is something I'd find interesting

vantpers
Nov 5, 2018, 06:18 PM
In ep2 you also had no specific solo challenges to play with and no death mixer quests with horde of enemies spinning their unobvious hitboxes around all at once, as youre bombarded by 16 corrupt cores. All those apostle dragons and phalegs might require some hp and def compensation.

I'm still not exactly sure what you think this game "should" be, so far it looks like you want to kite around the boss, because it should be the only way to kill it. But that maybe won't benefit the game?

I would understand Bouncer tree having a choice between broader support aoe effects and pbf spreading more buffs, for example. Or hunter choosing between more countering opportunities versus extra damage boosts for taking hits more often. Do you mean something like this? It wouldn't require reinventing the wheel and could be actually liberating to experiment with, right? Its kinda stupid to hope for such overhaul, but yeah, this is something I'd find interesting

EP2 had Aculpus pre nerf. It destroyed enough butts to have them nerfed. Yes there is increase in aggressiveness from EP2 onward, but there is also disappointing solutions to them. Instead of forcing some sort of cooperation and even non-damage oriented solutions, we just gave all the defense to damage solutions. Also Phaleg is simple, just dodge or guard, not really as crazy as some mulit boss rooms unless in a multiboss rooms herself. Even buffed Chrome is still just a boss that hits hard.

Perfectly, I just want actually different playstyles. Stuff like first latest solo XQ stage. You would think it's pretty damn impressive that Hunter can just dive into the instakilling nuke Deus does, and it's totally worth how little damage it usually does because now he has his strongest damage out during the most dangerous moment. But it's still not full satisfaction given you even had Fighter just using Never Give Up there, or he could just keep doing damage that wasn't that much lower before the newest Sword buff by just using Slow Fighter Action Gear Experience spam or Deadly Circle, and that's with 100% less effort. Similar solutions could be found on too many classes. Hunter's defensive role has been thoroughly wasted because as much as some EP4 LQs required something tanky to take on multiple bosses solo, Sega balanced it awful enough that you could make a tanky Fighter with twice the DPS compared to Hunter. What's worse similar tactics were mostly based on Automated Halfline or lifeleech, and not quite engaging.

In the end Hunter's parry bonuses and Charge Parrying mechanics that were supposed to let him handle as high aggro as he wants while outputting DPS were wasted because everyone else could already handle high aggro with same or less effort depending on how many other non weapon related defensive skills you took. That's also without paying the DPS penalty for having Charge Parrying. Which put Hunter deep into low tiers in the game. The basic system in my posts would be supposed to be a class that works under aggro well and class that is risky and has to limit DPS under aggro. Both dodge, both parry, both play action combat, but they prefer dealing damage different ways with neither being the wrong class, with natural synergy of one wanting to take the other's aggro, and taking aggro happens in the game even right now.

My point about skill tree differences was also about it. Because those are supposed to be class synergies and letting players have too much HP coming from units only resulted in Fighter domination in EP4, and more importantly too little choice and too much grinding because with enough money every class could be beefy enough.

Also EP3 had plenty of uses for combo rotation. Anything with Fighter in it wanted at least a 2 PA combo. Even in EP2 you needed for example access to both Guilty Break, Ride Slasher, Over End, and Rising Edge, maybe Sonic Arrow too.

Kilich
Nov 5, 2018, 06:22 PM
Yes, more playstyles would be great. But to have multiple playstyles you need to make classes play differently on a mechanical level with drawbacks for versatility. So, probably they should make skill points highly limited again and add more interesting things to skill tree, potentials and item sets so that the damage race becomes a three way between it, defense and utility. Make more important skills main class only too, like Iron Will and Automates, or split and weaken them. Katana Combat losing its invul as sub class is a good example.

And you need content that is not a 'death mixer that spits interrupts, knockdowns, rushes/leaps and general hard to avoid damage. Preferably where you have to dodge attacks/just guard them, unless you are hunter guard stance main that lives off counter attacks, or w/e.
Then again, I might just go back to other games, depending on Ep6, that one is more likely.

Just letting off some steam, from constantly getting Darker Nest in TAs and Apostolo in Run x dailies.

KatsuraJun
Nov 5, 2018, 10:40 PM
Also EP3 had plenty of uses for combo rotation. Anything with Fighter in it wanted at least a 2 PA combo. Even in EP2 you needed for example access to both Guilty Break, Ride Slasher, Over End, and Rising Edge, maybe Sonic Arrow too.

Yes, people started comboing on fi and hu (which subclassed fi) once it was literally forced on them through what is one of the most efficient damage buff in the tree.

And even then I remember plenty of people ignoring it and continuing to spam the same move repeatedly because it was lower effort and still passably effective.


In the end Hunter's parry bonuses and Charge Parrying mechanics that were supposed to let him handle as high aggro as he wants while outputting DPS were wasted because everyone else could already handle high aggro with same or less effort depending on how many other non weapon related defensive skills you took. That's also without paying the DPS penalty for having Charge Parrying. Which put Hunter deep into low tiers in the game.

That has absolutely nothing to do with why Hu is shit as a mainclass. Hunter weapons are fucking clunky, dependent on multiple band-aids over an inherently flawed concept called gear, (sword) or ridiculously pp inefficient, (partizan) or just straight up forgotten (wired lance) Their mobility was absolute dogshit in the past despite being a class that depends heavily on sticking on their target, depending on partizan (again, absolutely destroying your pp bar) or Guilty Break, which is more feasable now that they've added two ways to maintain gear that should have been there from the start. As I mentioned earlier, the entire gear system for sword in particular was flawed from the get go, requiring you to maintain 3 levels of gear just to exist on the same playing field as other classes because your 0-gear PAs like Rising Edge were fucking god awful.

And even if you get past all that? Their damage is mediocre. It's got nothing to do with defenses. Even if every other class in the game was a glass cannon except Hunter, they'd still be bad unless you just straight up removed the ability to iframe on everyone else or added some kind of unavoidable damage, and then it just wouldn't be PSO2 anymore, it'd just be a typical trinity MMO. Fighter has always taken a dump on Hunter as a melee, even before it had a ways to cheat dying in Limit Break and stack a million hp, because it's mobile and does more damage, and if you just popped a few points in step dodge, you could deal with everything well enough anyway.

In fact, Hunter nowadays is more playable now than in the past. With all the mobility buffs, gear bandaids and sacbite type 0, at least I can hit things in EQBQ before a fucking force snipes it out from under my nose like TD.

Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that specific class specializations are disappearing from PSO2 (like gunner having a weakness against large groups of enemies previously, when now it can do anything) but this is absolutely not why Hunter sucks. Hunter sucked way before that.

SteveCZ
Nov 6, 2018, 01:28 AM
Yes, people started comboing on fi and hu (which subclassed fi) once it was literally forced on them through what is one of the most efficient damage buff in the tree.

And even then I remember plenty of people ignoring it and continuing to spam the same move repeatedly because it was lower effort and still passably effective.

Yup, when Tech Arts JA Bonus was introduced. What follows after are Fighter's shiny days ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)..... *cough* including deadly circle *cough* LOL.

Zephyrion
Nov 6, 2018, 07:54 AM
~snip

I mean let's be real, as much as I love HU, the class itself always has been the one with the least identity (and by that I mean class-defining mechanics). Most of the HU tree literally benefits from subclassing more than mainclassing in several cases due to survivability skill stacking with the extra SP you get from not having to skill HU-only stuff, and HU as the countering/aggro-managing class has never been a thing due to an even more screwy tree than the current one in EP1, followed by the addition of BR. The "identity" of HU then shifted to its weapon mechanics, that got refined over the years (except WL, because WL is that poor kid nobody remembers). So now we have weapons with very unique feels and mechanics tied to them....but most of that uniqueness is also the reason why they're so flawed as far as damage-dealing goes....conundrum, yay.

You'll just notice that unsurprisingly, all the "losers" from the major balance changes are classes with skill tree and/or design flaws in the first place. Like BO who has been considered a support for so long, despite having been played as another classic melee class because said support skills are so niche, and SEGA still wanting to push that flawed supportive side with stuff like dodge auto-field. Or TE forever being a weaker FO, and only saved from its hole by introducing a wand you can't play without because it's so OP, but at the same time OP stick literally funnels you into one boring and repetitive playstyle, which is so ironical for a class that used to have so many unique ways of being played.

Now remember, HU is also one of the "supportive DPS" according to SEGA's view, which honestly only translates to "the classes that would actually require a lot of changes to be functional as utility classes, but we already have so much on our plate, so we'll just bandaid them and hope it holds"

TL;DR EP5 merely highlighted issues that just were present in the first place. Even back in the days of EP3 with so many different builds and strategies, HU was just "left behind" because of the same reasons it's left behind now

vantpers
Nov 6, 2018, 11:48 AM
Yes, people started comboing on fi and hu (which subclassed fi) once it was literally forced on them through what is one of the most efficient damage buff in the tree.

And even then I remember plenty of people ignoring it and continuing to spam the same move repeatedly because it was lower effort and still passably effective.


Do we really need to discuss non meta choices of the players? I get someone might not combo but still. Either way, just Sword Hunter alone EP3 had Rising Edge for single target, Over End when the target actually wouldn't try to hit him, Ride Slasher as better DPS as long as it could actually hit properly, Twister Fall for even better DPS that required something to combo it into air and a big hitbox, Guilty Break for less PP efficient DPS which you didn't have to break, and Ignite Parrying for DPS when countering. All that EP3. You absolutely wanted a separate palette full of nothing but Ignite Parrying just so you can parry things properly


That has absolutely nothing to do with why Hu is shit as a mainclass. Hunter weapons are fucking clunky, dependent on multiple band-aids over an inherently flawed concept called gear, (sword) or ridiculously pp inefficient, (partizan) or just straight up forgotten (wired lance) Their mobility was absolute dogshit in the past despite being a class that depends heavily on sticking on their target, depending on partizan (again, absolutely destroying your pp bar) or Guilty Break, which is more feasable now that they've added two ways to maintain gear that should have been there from the start. As I mentioned earlier, the entire gear system for sword in particular was flawed from the get go, requiring you to maintain 3 levels of gear just to exist on the same playing field as other classes because your 0-gear PAs like Rising Edge were fucking god awful.

What Gear? Sword gear was semi-dead in EP3 unless you chose Fi/Hu, Partizan would be more gear dependent as it actually would disappear when using PAs and you had to charge it up. Officially dead in EP4 when it only ever limited your GB dashing, being so easy to maintain. Mobility has been good since EP3 on Sword, Partizan had just mediocre mobility, and Wired Lances had to wait for semi-fix of Adapt Spin buff.



And even if you get past all that? Their damage is mediocre. It's got nothing to do with defenses. Even if every other class in the game was a glass cannon except Hunter, they'd still be bad unless you just straight up removed the ability to iframe on everyone else or added some kind of unavoidable damage, and then it just wouldn't be PSO2 anymore, it'd just be a typical trinity MMO. Fighter has always taken a dump on Hunter as a melee, even before it had a ways to cheat dying in Limit Break and stack a million hp, because it's mobile and does more damage, and if you just popped a few points in step dodge, you could deal with everything well enough anyway.

Idiotic. Ponthi as Fi/Hu managed to Time Attack the toughest EP4 quest by getting hit on Fighter, not dodging things on Fighter. Do you think when someone does Stage 4 of the latest solo XQ they tank through damage because it's easier, or because having to avoid thing instead of doing AoE DPS would slow them down? Have you seen how a Ra/Hu plays in Endless? Particularly the last stage. You think Ra/Hu there could afford trying to dodge things instead of using Automate Halfline?

EP3 especially early on there wasn't heaven and hell difference between the two classes but with reverse order. Hunter had its advantages and Fighter had some, Fighter still had DS reliant on Meteor due to no free winds, and more PP problems. For all you talk about how Hunter weapons are something something immobile, you finally got to the true point. Hunter does less sandbag DPS than most things, Hunter is supposed to be able to waste less time on maneuvers that would lower the combat DPS, because you can charge PAs while defending yourself, you can instantly counter attack with buffed Sonic Arrow from JG, because you get PP back for guarding attack, and finally because you have Ignite Parrying. The problem was not Fighter having iframes. That's stupid. Everyone always fucks up if given tight enough timing enough times. Not even that was a problem, Fighter wasn't supposed to keep doing twice the damage of Hunter while dodging, even if it was supposed to do twice the damage of Hunter on a sandbag. But defensive skills did make for Fighter, and more so for other classes, sandbag out of nearly everything because fuck dodging damage.



In fact, Hunter nowadays is more playable now than in the past. With all the mobility buffs, gear bandaids and sacbite type 0, at least I can hit things in EQBQ before a fucking force snipes it out from under my nose like TD.

I am sure you couldn't hit anything because Guilty Break would charge in 20 frames to full, and now it charges in 10F to full. Not because things would die to the first guy who reacts and hits them.


...

Aggro-managing wasn't a thing with Hunter yes, but it's been getting counter focus since EP3 on Sword, and EP4 on everything. While other classes do get some counter abilities too, Sword is still the one with Ignite Parrying. Then you have charge parrying and [PA] Guard rings. Even Wired Lance can get ridiculous invincibility uptime by just spamming Heavenly Fall.

Other than that we all know Sega has been mismanaging things and my complaint is precisely that Hunter's more powerful and easier to use survival skills end up tied to a tree for everyone, rather than to weapon abilities with some main only restrictions. Then comes the part where Hunter was supposed to use all that extra combo mobility/damage evasion to edge out other classes, while Sega keeps giving Charge Parrying to Force, ridiculous guard frames to Deadly Circle, another Iron Will to Fighter, more PP efficiency to Fighter, Gear Exp counter to Fighter, Short Mirage to Force, or Hero's entire thing without bothering to even give back some DPS to Hunter in most cases.

AVO
Nov 6, 2018, 12:45 PM
Element Stance buff/removal/change

br and bo skill tree rework honestly.

Kilich
Nov 6, 2018, 01:09 PM
Just a note: I hope that Phantom is fun enough for me to finally switch off both Braver, that became my main every since its release, and Hunter that I sometimes try to go back to, like in Ep1, but Br's combo nature is just more fun. Or at least have a subclass that offers a damage boost that is easier to use in full than Fi's chase/slayer/LB/positioning stances,

KatsuraJun
Nov 6, 2018, 02:55 PM
Do we really need to discuss non meta choices of the players? I get someone might not combo but still. Either way, just Sword Hunter alone EP3 had Rising Edge for single target, Over End when the target actually wouldn't try to hit him, Ride Slasher as better DPS as long as it could actually hit properly, Twister Fall for even better DPS that required something to combo it into air and a big hitbox, Guilty Break for less PP efficient DPS which you didn't have to break, and Ignite Parrying for DPS when countering. All that EP3. You absolutely wanted a separate palette full of nothing but Ignite Parrying just so you can parry things properly

I mean that's literally the same as it is now, so I don't know what point you're trying to make here. It's no more spammy now than it was before, which is the point I was making.


What Gear? Sword gear was semi-dead in EP3 unless you chose Fi/Hu, Partizan would be more gear dependent as it actually would disappear when using PAs and you had to charge it up. Officially dead in EP4 when it only ever limited your GB dashing, being so easy to maintain. Mobility has been good since EP3 on Sword, Partizan had just mediocre mobility, and Wired Lances had to wait for semi-fix of Adapt Spin buff.

Ep3 is when they started band-aiding over the problem with skills and rings for sword in particular (in Ep4), so yeah, that's kind of my point. Pre Hunter Gear Boost sword gear was absolute shit because you were required to build it up rather slowly just to be able to do things in general, something no other weapon needed to deal with, and then it'd drain fast as fuck too.


Idiotic. Ponthi as Fi/Hu managed to Time Attack the toughest EP4 quest by getting hit on Fighter, not dodging things on Fighter. Do you think when someone does Stage 4 of the latest solo XQ they tank through damage because it's easier, or because having to avoid thing instead of doing AoE DPS would slow them down? Have you seen how a Ra/Hu plays in Endless? Particularly the last stage. You think Ra/Hu there could afford trying to dodge things instead of using Automate Halfline?

That's not the point I'm trying to make. Absolutely tanking through shit is more effective right now than dodging, but the problem is even before tanking through shit became a reality for every class subbing Hu, it's not like Hu was in a much better spot aside from Fi/Hu partizan LB Magatsu runs.


For all you talk about how Hunter weapons are something something immobile, you finally got to the true point. Hunter does less sandbag DPS than most things, Hunter is supposed to be able to waste less time on maneuvers that would lower the combat DPS, because you can charge PAs while defending yourself, you can instantly counter attack with buffed Sonic Arrow from JG, because you get PP back for guarding attack, and finally because you have Ignite Parrying. The problem was not Fighter having iframes. That's stupid. Everyone always fucks up if given tight enough timing enough times. Not even that was a problem, Fighter wasn't supposed to keep doing twice the damage of Hunter while dodging, even if it was supposed to do twice the damage of Hunter on a sandbag. But defensive skills did make for Fighter, and more so for other classes, sandbag out of nearly everything because fuck dodging damage.

The immobility was primarily about pre-Hunter Gear Boost era hunter, where mobility absolutely was an issue for the weapon.

So if you agree the problem is with Hunter damage being total ass, then buff Hunter damage, which is exactly what I want actually. It shouldn't be dependent on ignite parrying, a conditionally useful PA, to even come close to doing the same damage as everyone else using general purpose PAs. The point I'm trying to make here isn't whether or not tanking is better than dodging, it's that even if you took away automate and NGU nonsense from Fi, Fi would *still* be better than Hunter unless its rotations are buffed to be on par to Fi's rotations without limit break, and Ignite Parrying properly gives it dps approaching limit break. Taking defensive options away from everyone else won't close the gap, it didn't close the gap even before those defensive tools existed.


I am sure you couldn't hit anything because Guilty Break would charge in 20 frames to full, and now it charges in 10F to full. Not because things would die to the first guy who reacts and hits them.

No, "things dying to the first guy who reacts and hits them" is kind of how TD1 and 2 went, even after the ilmegid nerfs.

vantpers
Nov 6, 2018, 03:38 PM
I mean that's literally the same as it is now, so I don't know what point you're trying to make here. It's no more spammy now than it was before, which is the point I was making.

No, AoE in EP2 wasn't as spammy in particular, it had balance problems with making PAs useful but general AoE use PAs were often limited to be just as spammable. Ilmegid was a balancing error, and even pre nerf Shunka wasn't as much of an AoE spam as Kanran was, yet was preferred over Kanran up until nerf, and then there was still Hatou mobbing because Kanran had kinda disappointing damage at times. And it was more to the point about TAJA making people not spam things, and not things themselves opening up later for combos, especially in EP3 where we didn't have such huge AoEs everywhere while having good PA balance overall.



Ep3 is when they started band-aiding over the problem with skills and rings for sword in particular (in Ep4), so yeah, that's kind of my point. Pre Hunter Gear Boost sword gear was absolute shit because you were required to build it up rather slowly just to be able to do things in general, something no other weapon needed to deal with, and then it'd drain fast as fuck too.

Yeah I get it, but EP3/4 showed that even if you patch up gear it's still not THE problem. It was one of those fixed things.


That's not the point I'm trying to make. Absolutely tanking through shit is more effective right now than dodging, but the problem is even before tanking through shit became a reality for every class subbing Hu, it's not like Hu was in a much better spot aside from Fi/Hu partizan LB Magatsu runs.

Before it became reality... it was mostly EP2 or early EP3. EP2 Hunter had no edge in tanking because you had to deal both with lower damage weapons, and guard stance, since fury stance and defensive skills were an impossibility, even for other classes who had better SP balance than Hunter. It at most had a bit better HP. EP2 Hunter also did chip damage when JG attacks, JG was front only so not even an edge over Braver here, no Ignite Parrying, no Charge Parrying.

Early EP3 Hunter was also alright, okay mobbing, okay bossing since PP efficiency still mattered. Nobody really complained how much it sucked. There were Fighter main complaints that applied to every class, and resulted from a combination of too strong main class only Fighter skills that were universal damage, and lack of strong and easily available 13*. You could even say that Fi/Hu Partizan was closer to playing Hunter than Fighter, just with a different coat of class paint seeing how now classes are all about their weapons. Nobody would call Hu/Br running all Katana in EP2 a Hunter.


The immobility was primarily about pre-Hunter Gear Boost era hunter, where mobility absolutely was an issue for the weapon.

I get it but that era was years ago. Fixing it helped but something more is broken now.


So if you agree the problem is with Hunter damage being total ass, then buff Hunter damage, which is exactly what I want actually. It shouldn't be dependent on ignite parrying, a conditionally useful PA, to even come close to doing the same damage as everyone else using general purpose PAs. The point I'm trying to make here isn't whether or not tanking is better than dodging, it's that even if you took away automate and NGU nonsense from Fi, Fi would *still* be better than Hunter unless its rotations are buffed to be on par to Fi's rotations without limit break, and Ignite Parrying properly gives it dps approaching limit break.

Ignite Parrying does give DPS that can eclipse LB Fighter now, like in the first stage of solo XQ. But at this point even further Ignite Parrying eclipsing is just one-note balancing. You're supposed to buff a bit of that, nerf a bit of that. All that tankiness that just amounts to players being able to concentrate on damage dealing only and skipping any dodge/block mechanics is also a part of a broken system for an action game. It was kind of Sega's idea before that they will give classes counter bonuses because dodging isn't worth it compared to tanking through hits, which was ultimately a bandaid on a broken arm that works for a Hunter with Sword, if you're not mobbing.

More DPS to ordinary rotations? Yes a good bit more couldn't hurt, but mostly as a tradeoff so that ordinary DPS can't be delivered by mashing buttons and taking all hits in the universe, but rather utilizing weapon mechanics. Ignite already has amazing DPS and too much would just eclipse any other PA that wouldn't matter in the end compared to fishing for Ignite more. Follow the universal common sense rule of nerfing the strongest and buffing the weakest. Rest of the gap can entirely be solved by just dealing with Automated Halfline on anything that isn't Hunter, Iron Will procs to be more reasonable (like Hero's) and not working so well with LBI effectively preventing worst case scenario, NGU main only and cheaper, a bit less of a free hand to give the classes that already have god tier DPS also god tier speed or god tier combat mobility. Well that's for Fighter problem, and other melee classes.

Gu/Fi is another thing that's broken in its inside class mechanics where mobbing is entirely risk-less button mash that is PP positive and with a massive AoE, and bossing you're doing riskless good DPS that's PP positive before finishing up the chain for massive damage, which is now also way way less risky.


No, "things dying to the first guy who reacts and hits them" is kind of how TD1 and 2 went, even after the ilmegid nerfs.
Yeah and it was mostly what was wrong with them. It wasn't really melee class's fault that a ranged class can get hit in before a melee class does, it was the fault of the first hit also being the last hit. Early XH was a big help here.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 6, 2018, 09:19 PM
wheres my beasts at? PSO Idola got them, gimme gimme

Kilich
Nov 7, 2018, 01:23 PM
I wanted accessories and LAs to become more than just cosmetics for a while, so PA and Tech camo? For example, Ra can set One Point Pa to fire from a shoulder cannon camo, or Fo can set a LA camo as a replacement for Zonde casting.

Halca
Nov 7, 2018, 03:22 PM
I wanted accessories and LAs to become more than just cosmetics for a while, so PA and Tech camo? For example, Ra can set One Point Pa to fire from a shoulder cannon camo, or Fo can set a LA camo as a replacement for Zonde casting.
I've had a similar thought too. It would be awesome if they had rings or camos that affect the aesthetics of your techniques.
A huge one I really want is unique tech casting animations for every weapon type that incorporate the weapon. I also would appreciate them tweaking the rod casting animations cause they're kind of boring

SteveCZ
Nov 7, 2018, 10:30 PM
Give separate shoes ticket

Nevermind pls don't kill me. :no:

Kilich
Nov 10, 2018, 10:46 AM
If things like compound techs/dark blasts/PA/etc were rewards for lvls 75+ instead of SP, keeping skill tree choices limited and more skills were main class, or worked only with their class weapons, would the game be better off?

MyNameIsHawk
Nov 10, 2018, 11:05 AM
If things like compound techs/dark blasts/PA/etc were rewards for lvls 75+ instead of SP, keeping skill tree choices limited and more skills were main class, or worked only with their class weapons, would the game be better off?

that would kill the whole reason to subclass, if want the backward, rid of main class only skills so people can go creative play their styles

Kilich
Nov 10, 2018, 11:11 AM
But then several classes will be relegated to being /Hu. Maybe changing those skills to work when using the subclass weapons is better? Then /Fi can use crit strike if you use FI weapons and /Hu gets Automate if you use a Hunter weapon.

NightlightPro
Nov 10, 2018, 11:45 AM
why just not simply combine all classes in 1 unique class?
or better, make a custom class where you can pick all the skills from normal classes in 1 unique skill set

something like CQ if you get the idea

isCasted
Nov 10, 2018, 11:54 AM
Or something like Phantasy Star Portable 2, where your class determines base stats, which skills you unlock and which weapons your are more predisposed to, but you can make any class use any weapon or skill if you want.

Dark Mits
Nov 10, 2018, 12:44 PM
The idea of locking skills as "Main class" only would kill subclassing is not entirely true. I mean, the existence of a meta already kills subclasses. There is no such thing as being creative in one's build; there's only being optimal or being a scrub to exaggerate slightly.

I wouldn't put more skills behind "Main class" requirements, but I would actually redesign classes to remove bloat, and to have a sort of subclass themselves through the stance system. For example:
i) HUnter at the top has the easy and straightforward HP Boost only, with a maximum of 10 skill points where it scales so that 10/10 reaches the same HP value as getting all of current HP Boost I, II and III.
ii) To the right are all Step related skills, Just Reversal and Weapon Gear skills.
iii) Below them and unlocking at level 10 (or whenever it would feel appropriate), are the 2 Stance Skills: Fury Stance and Guard Stance
iv) All remaining defensive/tanking skills are below Guard Stance (Massive Hunter, Iron Will, Guard and Just Guard, War Cry, Charge Parry, Just Guard PP Gain etc.), and they all have a hard requirement of 10/10 in Guard Stance.
v) All remaining offensive skills are below Fury Stance (S-Atk, Just Counter), and they all have a hard requirement of 10/10 in Fury Stance.
vi) Stance skills are consolidated into the stance itself, similar to HP Boost above. For example Fury Stance at 10/10 gives whatever it currently gives, + Fury Stance 1 10/10 + Fury Stance 2 10/10.
vii) Of couse that would make Fury Stance kind of empty, so Sega would have to invent new skills to make it more interesting. Stuff like more PP regen per autoattack, or even PP Up skills, bonus damage if the player remains in combat for a fixed time, etc.

-=EDIT=- Ideally the entirety of the tree, and I mean picking up and maxxing every single skill would require slightly more than the available pool of skillpoints. So if we have 104 skill points at lvl90, maxxing everything should require 110.
-=END EDIT=-

Player would be able to change stances at will, but loses all passive bonuses and active abilities that do not belong to it. So switching from Guard Stance to Fury Stance would make the player lose access to Massive Hunter, Iron Will and all damage reduction multipliers of Guard Stance. Returning to Guard Stance would re-enable them, and conversely the player would lose all passive and active bonuses of Fury Stance.

Similarly to the other classes, except Sega would have to think of stances for every class (FI already has 2, RA could have a stance for stationary damage and another for being on the move, GU could have stances for fighting bosses or trash, FO a stance for burst damage and a stance for sustain damage, TE a stance for enhancing auto-attacks and a stance for pure supporting, BR already has 2, BO already has 2, and SU a stance for pet fighting and a stance for enhancing mag [higher bonuses, more damage, more protection etc] ).

The idea is that these stances would bring bonuses that are not weapon or class specific, and therefore being subclass stances they can help every other class. Of course Sega would have to invent a ****-ton of new skills to add to make the stances "balanced". And this would be a nightmare, since metas would again exist.

Kilich
Nov 10, 2018, 01:54 PM
Not sure if making skills turn off if you are out of the required stance is a good idea, It makes the skill tree too linear, I think.

XrosBlader821
Nov 10, 2018, 02:04 PM
If there is one thing I'd want Sega to do is to not introduce more stances.

Why give Ra a stance for on the go damage and standing still damage, which you have to toggle manually, when Ra already has such system active passively. It'd just make the class more clunky. Te already sorta had a Normal Attack and Support Stance, it was called Wand Lovers and Territory Burst, yes Territory Burst was an active ability at one point and Wand lovers turned your PP into 0, making you unable to use Techs. It sucked.

Sega was already running out of Ideas with stances when they did Braver and Bouncer. Doing more stances is the last thing we need right now.

Zephyrion
Nov 10, 2018, 02:33 PM
If there is one thing I'd want Sega to do is to not introduce more stances.

Why give Ra a stance for on the go damage and standing still damage, which you have to toggle manually, when Ra already has such system active passively. It'd just make the class more clunky. Te already sorta had a Normal Attack and Support Stance, it was called Wand Lovers and Territory Burst, yes Territory Burst was an active ability at one point and Wand lovers turned your PP into 0, making you unable to use Techs. It sucked.

Sega was already running out of Ideas with stances when they did Braver and Bouncer. Doing more stances is the last thing we need right now.

It would also go against the differentiation between attack types
Melee classes : Stances
Ranged classes : stacking conditional multipliers
Tech : Element matching

BO has stances+ ele matching while BR has stances + Bow actives and skills, and SU is still defaulted as a tech class due to having the element matching aspect.

Dark Mits
Nov 10, 2018, 02:54 PM
Not sure if making skills turn off if you are out of the required stance is a good idea, It makes the skill tree too linear, I think.It does, and that's something I support for the early parts of a class. The idea of linearity is that a levelling player, who is still learning the ropes will not be facing a convoluted mess that doesn't indicate what they should be getting first. Later on they can get the skills they think are best at the order they like. My above suggestion is linear until 10/10 in the Stance skill (therefore until lvl20 or so).


It'd just make the class more clunky.You are reading my suggestion in the wrong mindset. I am not saying that not enabling a stance entirely prohibits you from being able to perform tasks. I am saying that not enabling a stance just gives you lower effectiveness than the absolute optimal. This difference does not have to be something huge like 1000%; it can be something low like 50%. Let's bring Mother for example:

- HUnter: I will be Guard Stance during hand phase (and maybe last 30%) because high damage is not that important right now, but being able to absorb damage. I will be Fury Stance when the boss is vulnerable because there is no damage going on anyway. I can remain Fury Stance during the whole fight but I have to accept the risk that I may be receiving more damage if I am not careful with dodging.
- FIghter: I will be Brave Stance when the boss is vulnerable and in last phase, and Wise Stance when fighting its arms. I can be Brave Stance during the whole fight unless I am not that good in positioning myself during hand phase (me as Dark Mits for example have a hard time hitting hands from the front).
- RAnger: I will be Stand Still Stance during vulnerable and Mobile Stance during the rest of the fight. I can be Stand Still Stance during the whole fight, but yeah, I probably have to move a lot.
- GUnner: I will be Boss Stance during vulnerable and Trash stance during hands (maybe). I can be Boss Stance during the whole fight but maybe I deal more overall damage with Trash stance during hand phase.
- FOrce: I will be Burst Stance during vulnerable and Sustain stance during hands. I can be Burst Stance during the whole fight but maybe I miss my attacks if the hands change position or go high up in the air.
- TEcher: I will be Damage Stance when I don't need to buff and Support Stance when I need to. I can be Damage Stance during the whole fight but it is better for the whole group overall if I sacrifice a bit of damage for a few seconds to increase everyone else's performance for a moderate duration.
- BRaver: I will be Weak Stance when vulnerable and Average Stance during hands. I can be Weak Stance during hand phase, but I probably will be dealing more damage in Average Stance there.
- BOuncer: I probably will be Element Stance during the whole fight because I don't think there are breakable stuff here (don't kill me if there are and I don't know them)
- SUmmoner: I will be Pet Stance if I use a Takt and Mag Stance if I am not.
- HeRo: Rez plz.

We already have a sort of "stance" system with the various skills. Massive Hunter is not active all the time, and we select to use it when we expect that we will need it. It is not clunkiness that we don't have 100% uptime on it, nor do we use it as soon as it gets off cd. Similarily, Photon Flare is selected when we expect a burst phase without interruptions, and we don't always have it on cd. I agree that the examples I thought above are probably not the most amazing examples of how to make the game more interesting, but the idea is that there should be more "checks" on when a player is making good decisions, and at the same time we should not be able to have access to everything with 0 opportunity cost. The game should be more than just left and right clicking.

Golgotha
Nov 10, 2018, 05:34 PM
Stances' problem is that they're directly affecting damage multiplier more than anything else, which led to their constant quickfixing so their activation would require as little effort as possible. You end up needing both stances, because you need multiplier in any situation, and if youre not utilizing them, you might as well pick different class, and everyone complains about why you can't get the multiplier somehow in an easier way. Its why you dont want more stances, because you can't imagine them not being so essential that failing to comply with the condition would be an absolute handicap.

If they (or you) wanted more synergy between class stances, you'd need stances to affect less critical game aspect that would alter your performance differently, not amplify it in the same way under different circumstances. It would also need to be universal too to be a viable option to most classes.
Ideally it would also need to provide specific effect regardless of whether you fulfill its conditions or not. Just like stances usually work in other games or something

Which is kinda difficult due to how few mechanics exist in the game.
You HAVE to switch between brave and wise to not lose the huge chunk of damage, which forced developers to reduce difference between them and add things like knuckle S4 that flat out adds extra frontal damage during wise. Its kind of a self-mutilation.

This absurd damage accent and classes being strapped to their weapons leaves you in situation where everyone subs Hu or Fi. And I don't remember them saying that current state of subclassing or stances is a such big problem, because apparently its not a problem if players aren't saying anything.

Kilich
Nov 10, 2018, 06:30 PM
Or they quit instead of saying.

vantpers
Nov 10, 2018, 07:18 PM
Other than Mother's arm phase is entirely Brave stance (probably because Mother herself is always looking at the middle point of the arena), and that the arms can only be hit one at a time so no multi hands drifting like on Elder, having too many stance switches during action parts is annoying. Just like having to shortcut switch R rings but worse.

Dark Mits
Nov 11, 2018, 05:27 AM
snipped to save spaceI agree with most everything you say. However worded differently, your first paragraph just says that players want to have the absolute theoretical max multipliers without having to choose anything, and without having to sacrifice anything. That doesn't make an interesting game.

Regarding your 2nd paragraph about class synergy, my proposal above does that. It does not take into account anything that is class specific. All stances are useful for all classes and they are universal. No stance is tied to any weapon (except SU's pet stance) or even weapon type (strike / range / tech). They are tied to the state of the enemy and the battlefield (and your allies for TE's proposed stances).

Your 3rd paragraph actually highlights the issue. Players don't like to have to make choices; they just want to see big numbers without them wanting to play, just spam whatever and see big numbers. This reminds me the discussion in World of Warcraft many years ago, where Fire Mages had a significant part of their damage tied to dealing critical hits, and players with 70% crit chance would actually create threads complaining that they should have 100% crit chance because "our class does not have 70% crit chance, it has 30% chance of blocking us from dealing proper damage."

====

Fluidity is very important to an action game. But there are different types of fluidity. My proposal does not hinder a player from being agile, from being able to dodge attacks, from being able to move around the battlefield quickly or from being able to close/increase gaps to an enemy. The only changes are to damage output, which isn't radically different than selecting a different PA/Tech except on a longer scale.

Clunkiness is when a player has to perform a series of actions before they are even able to perform a task, and they have to repeat that a lot of times over a small period of time. Clunkiness, for example, is having to switch a different weapon, accumulate PP over time, and then spam a specific PA to be able to move swiftly around the battlefield. Clunkiness is highlighted if someone is able to accomplish that without effort, while others have to perform this series of actions. Imagine if instead of that, we just had a skill at our disposal that gave us dashing speed at the expense of PP over time. That's how you remove clunkiness.

Kilich
Nov 11, 2018, 05:37 AM
I kinda want more skills like tech arts that promote combos, instead of spamming one PA. I think some of the situational potentials do that, including those that require a specific distance, or specific facing/position, because they promote including movement PAs into the dps cycle, but potentials go obsolete with their weapons, skills are permanent.

For example, katana Fi/Br has asagiri and sakura 0 as combo starters, one is for closing in and gear activation, another for getting yourself airborne.
Then they branch out into guren to dodge a frontal attack, hien/tsukimi to keep yourself in the air and deal a lot of hits/deal quick damage to a high weak point, or gekka to land yourself and launch them.
Kanran is an exception, because it promotes spamming, but mobs die very quickly, so I hesitate to say that using the same PA 2-3 times per spawn is spamming,

Golgotha
Nov 11, 2018, 08:05 AM
your first paragraph just says that players want to have the absolute theoretical max multipliers without having to choose anything, and without having to sacrifice anything. That doesn't make an interesting game.

Also, whether you pick a stance or not at the moment is not actually a choice, because you're required to use the correct one, with the alternative being more or less failure (which is why they had to give them both same base multiplier).Its Like a difference between rpg game and a rhythm game rather than sacrifice.

So we aren't even at the stage of having less builds due to optimization, as all stances, spare hunter's, only deal with more damage and critical (that no one picks because crit only affects damage and only in one class).

XrosBlader821
Nov 11, 2018, 03:04 PM
Imagine if instead of that, we just had a skill at our disposal that gave us dashing speed at the expense of PP over time. That's how you remove clunkiness.

Sega already tried that. Test Players were complaining about motion sickness and a wasted Subpallete slot.
In other words it fixed one issue but created another one and that's how your stance proposal sounds in general. Fo and Te, even Bo players already have subpallette management problems. Dark Blast Elder release turning all left-side stances into passive abilities was a blessing that we had to wait for way too long.

Kilich
Nov 11, 2018, 03:11 PM
I thought of a good one. I wish for sega to stop creating content just to abandon it later. There's so much content in the game, but almost none of it is relevant. Or even outright cut from the game like ep 1-3 matterboards.

Dark Mits
Nov 11, 2018, 04:46 PM
Sega already tried that. Test Players were complaining about motion sickness and a wasted Subpallete slot.That... doesn't make sense. Why would dash on-demand (through action) cause motion sickness when dash on-demand (through PA) doesn't? I can understand the issue about Subpallete slot though.

In other words it fixed one issue but created another one and that's how your stance proposal sounds in general. Fo and Te, even Bo players already have subpallette management problems. Dark Blast Elder release turning all left-side stances into passive abilities was a blessing that we had to wait for way too long.I can't argue against that since I do acknowledge that my "solution" would bring more icons needed to be pressed. But if the issue is subpallette management, then maybe they could:
- remove entirely some cooldowns (which would simplify gameplay and remove choice from player, so that's a no-no)
- allow -mates to be selected through a menu, just like we currently select Dark Blast form (so all -mates would be on a single slot, but it would make it clunkier and slower to select the one we want). This menu can also hold all yellow food buffs (Meat Ration etc), yellow ticket buffs (Triboost, RDR, etc), green food buffs (Jerky etc.) and Telepipe (not for eating though). That way players can have the option to shove them all in 1 slot, or keep them as they are now.
- allow compounds (not the spammable ones) to be on a menu as above, so that they again occupy one slot instead of 3, again at player's choice.
- allow tech weapons to have enough pages to fit all techs on them, and we flip through them instead of just front and back. That way we can have weapons with 9, 12, 15 etc. techs, which would allow for more subpallette space, but it would be significantly slower to find the tech we want on the weapon.


On an entirely different tangent, I'd add to my wishlist the option to select rarity of items that are auto-picked up. Currently we only have for meseta and 13*+. I'd like it to be extended to: (i) 1*+, (ii) 4*+, (iii) 7*+, (iv) 10*+, (v) 13*+, (vi) just meseta, (vii) nothing. Some of us are hoarders and it's annoying to miss out on action because we are stuck picking up items in Free Fields and putting them in the bank. It would also help reduce the time people spend collecting items at the end of an EQ and therefore waste their precious seconds from their Triboost.

Other stuff I'd like the game to get right in EP6:
- Add new daily crafts that include stuff implemented after EP3. I should be able to get Earth Crystals, Omega Crystals and EP6 Crystals at a very slow pace by performing daily crafts.
- Fix Extending to be something useful. At the very worst just make it work like Timed Ability but for weapons.
- Redesign the entire affixing process to be something intuitive that relies on player's pocket, and not this convoluted mess of having to use guides and simulations before trying it for real (and failing at 98%). I can even write an entire essay on how to make it extremely streamlined, easy, and yet require hours upon hours of farming to get similar results for 6s and 7s, but just minutes to get 4s and 5s.
- Fix the issue where the game treats you as disconnected when you are in a loading screen (when you switch blocks, go to your room or team room, go into Franka's Cafe etc. you appear offline to others, and you actually miss chat).
- Balance (ie. buff) Client Order rewards for the NPCs at the Shop Area. Currently it's almost not worth the time to go and pick them manually for COs that are not even 100% certain they'll complete. Or at least make them appear in the recommended list.
- Remove randomness from Campship drinks, even if it means nerfing the best result we can get, or inversely buffing the worst results so that everyone gets the "best". At the very worst just implement more drinks if all bonuses have to exist for "player choice". Going in and out to get the ideal drink is not fun, nor is having to use the "friend" trick to maintain the good buff.

Sirius-91
Nov 11, 2018, 05:33 PM
- Fix the issue where the game treats you as disconnected when you are in a loading screen (when you switch blocks, go to your room or team room, go into Franka's Cafe etc. you appear offline to others, and you actually miss chat).

This is part of their netcode. When you swap blocks or change to battle mode or challenge mode shared ships, you are literally being disconnected.

BloodPuddles
Nov 11, 2018, 09:24 PM
I want a new support class. It'd be cool to have a full support ??/Te with shit damage, but makes everyone around powerful enough to compensate for it. Like give it a main class only passive HOT to nearby players and a 20% damage boost skill, then spend your time throwing out Zanverse and healing. Also give him special super powerful CCs to hold anything not Magatsu sized for 5 seconds on a cool down.

Edit: Those are some great points, I've never actually played ranger other than to get the trophy, and I always played Bo as DPS so I never thought of it like that. That CC would be perfect for Ra, and I'm sure they could think of plenty for Bo with it being right up in the action.

SteveCZ
Nov 11, 2018, 09:37 PM
off-topic from current talks but... how about at least 8/12 PB chain for 200%-300% RDR for a few minutes... c:
Should be good to make people want to have a team more than before, which is also what SEGA seems to be pushing constantly.

I honestly miss PB chain, one of the coolest thing to do in the past.

Dark Mits
Nov 12, 2018, 02:10 AM
I want a new support class. It'd be cool to have a full support ??/Te with shit damage, but makes everyone around powerful enough to compensate for it. Like give it a main class only passive HOT to nearby players and a 20% damage boost skill, then spend your time throwing out Zanverse and healing. Also give him special super powerful CCs to hold anything not Magatsu sized for 5 seconds on a cool down.You already have Te/Ra for that; 80% of the time you're Zanversing, Zondeeling and WB'ing

isCasted
Nov 12, 2018, 05:22 AM
I can understand the issue about Subpallete slot though.
There are a few action games where sprint is initiated by holding the dodge button. Some games fuck it up by making dodge only happen if you release the button before the sprint initiates, though. I think forcing you to dodge to start sprinting wouldn't be a too bad of a solution.


- allow -mates to be selected through a menu, just like we currently select Dark Blast form (so all -mates would be on a single slot, but it would make it clunkier and slower to select the one we want). This menu can also hold all yellow food buffs (Meat Ration etc), yellow ticket buffs (Triboost, RDR, etc), green food buffs (Jerky etc.) and Telepipe (not for eating though). That way players can have the option to shove them all in 1 slot, or keep them as they are now.
Might as well just go to the inventory menu manually and use it from there. I think it'd make sense to have mate items bound to a single, separate key, which would determine the item you'd like to use as you hold down the button (since the drinking animation for mate items is pretty much identical, it could just determine the item while it's happening). It'd take away the decision making factor away (say, you thought you wanted to use Trimate, but then you saw an attack coming. Normally you'd get hit, but with this change you'd just release the button and go with Mono/Dimate), but, given how rarely they're actually used even when L/Mate Lovers and (R/) Quick Mate are a thing, it might be a necessary buff.


- allow compounds (not the spammable ones) to be on a menu as above, so that they again occupy one slot instead of 3, again at player's choice.
- allow tech weapons to have enough pages to fit all techs on them, and we flip through them instead of just front and back. That way we can have weapons with 9, 12, 15 etc. techs, which would allow for more subpallette space, but it would be significantly slower to find the tech we want on the weapon.
I'd rather do it like this: let us put weapon-related skills (like Katana Combat or PBF) and compounds on a weapon palette (there's virtually no reason why you can't do that for compounds) and finally give us an option to have 9 weapon palette slots.


On an entirely different tangent, I'd add to my wishlist the option to select rarity of items that are auto-picked up. Currently we only have for meseta and 13*+. I'd like it to be extended to: (i) 1*+, (ii) 4*+, (iii) 7*+, (iv) 10*+, (v) 13*+, (vi) just meseta, (vii) nothing. Some of us are hoarders and it's annoying to miss out on action because we are stuck picking up items in Free Fields and putting them in the bank. It would also help reduce the time people spend collecting items at the end of an EQ and therefore waste their precious seconds from their Triboost.
Autopickup for items that already occupy a slot in your inventory (like grinders, stones etc) should be a given at this point.


Other stuff I'd like the game to get right in EP6:
- Add new daily crafts that include stuff implemented after EP3. I should be able to get Earth Crystals, Omega Crystals and EP6 Crystals at a very slow pace by performing daily crafts.
- Fix Extending to be something useful. At the very worst just make it work like Timed Ability but for weapons.
I'd rather see the entire crafting system get sent to hell. From the very start having equipment crafting be just slapping 100% predetermined stats onto a piece of equipment was a lazy and stupid idea that added nothing of value to the game other than wasting extra time, money and brain capacity. Timed abilities are just bizarre as a concept, and in practice everyone ends up going with maximum ATK and lv5 RDR boost for whatever area is relevant at the time. Tech customization could have been done in a different way completely, without RNG bs or predetermined recipes. PA customization (the actual process of customization, not its results) is also lazy - it's basically a glorified on/off switch (still better than being at mercy of RNG, though).

Golgotha
Nov 12, 2018, 05:52 AM
I want a new support class. It'd be cool to have a full support ??/Te with shit damage, but makes everyone around powerful enough to compensate for it. Like give it a main class only passive HOT to nearby players and a 20% damage boost skill, then spend your time throwing out Zanverse and healing. Also give him special super powerful CCs to hold anything not Magatsu sized for 5 seconds on a cool down.

Its the same problem with supports as always. You want it to be helpful at a level where you might not want a party without one such support participating, but also not more than one of them, because at 2+ of redundant supports efficiency will go down fast.


off-topic from current talks but... how about at least 8/12 PB chain for 200%-300% RDR for a few minutes... c:
Should be good to make people want to have a team more than before, which is also what SEGA seems to be pushing constantly.
I honestly miss PB chain, one of the coolest thing to do in the past.

People would probably connect PBs more often even without incentive, if it would be possible to coordinate release faster without standing still in saturday night fever pose and hope somebody will pay attention or even able to launch it.
I dunno, maybe if PB were linked together during the gray countdown phase of PSE burst or something else that would make everybody launch it in about the same time, but without actually stopping you. Or your active PB would be simply extended when someone else releases his own (that also gains extension at the expense of other PBs currently running)

XrosBlader821
Nov 12, 2018, 08:30 AM
I want a new support class. It'd be cool to have a full support ??/Te with shit damage, but makes everyone around powerful enough to compensate for it. Like give it a main class only passive HOT to nearby players and a 20% damage boost skill, then spend your time throwing out Zanverse and healing. Also give him special super powerful CCs to hold anything not Magatsu sized for 5 seconds on a cool down.

I'd rather have them expand the current support classes. Bo is currently suffering from the same problem Te did prior to Shifta Strike/Deband Toughness
The Crit Fields and PP Restoration fields are very weak and forgettable.
Te needs something that makes Normal Attack and Tech gameplay better and Ranger still has no reason to care about any bullet type except Weak Bullet

SteveCZ
Nov 12, 2018, 09:01 AM
People would probably connect PBs more often even without incentive, if it would be possible to coordinate release faster without standing still in saturday night fever pose and hope somebody will pay attention or even able to launch it.
I dunno, maybe if PB were linked together during the gray countdown phase of PSE burst or something else that would make everybody launch it in about the same time, but without actually stopping you. Or your active PB would be simply extended when someone else releases his own (that also gains extension at the expense of other PBs currently running)

Actually yeah I forgot we can just do that on pre PSE burst. luls. Not sure how it'd affect PSE burst to fail or not though, cause I'm sure in pug we'll be standing awkwardly hoping for others to do it too.

Zorak000
Nov 12, 2018, 06:28 PM
remove star gems, make star gem content use gross amounts of FUN instead

remove the gatchas and implement an outfit cataloge for outfit/accessory direct-purchase, include old outfits and accessories too

make everything tradeable

make AC tradeable.

there would need to be a lot more other changes in order to keep whales spending on AC, but im not really going to put much more thought into this

Dark Mits
Nov 13, 2018, 04:51 AM
Actually yeah I forgot we can just do that on pre PSE burst. luls. Not sure how it'd affect PSE burst to fail or not though, cause I'm sure in pug we'll be standing awkwardly hoping for others to do it too.Another idea for redesigning this without relying on other players following suite:
PB is Mag dependent, so make it pause Mag actions instead of player actions, in 2 stages:
1st stage: Player selects Photon Blast. Player keeps on doing stuff, moving around, attacking etc, but Mag stays suspended in mid-air with the PB Field "casting" animation.
2nd stage: Either when 10seconds pass or if Player selects Photon Blast a second time, PB is activated.
(3rd stage: Maybe give a grace period of 10-15 seconds after PB has been activated, where subsequent PBs from other players gain the chain bonus)

This change would make it clunkier when player is solo (having to select PB twice for it to activate instead of once), but it would significantly improve QoL for multiplayer content.

Also, place PB on the same icon as Dark Blast, to remove another space on subpallettes :D

Kilich
Nov 13, 2018, 12:22 PM
Revive race differences somehow. Also, replace the cutscene heavy story with story that happens as you play the game.

Saffran
Nov 13, 2018, 05:26 PM
>Revive race differences somehow. Also, replace the cutscene heavy story with story that happens as you play the game.
That's another game. You want to play another game.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 13, 2018, 08:58 PM
remove star gems, make star gem content use gross amounts of FUN instead

remove the gatchas and implement an outfit cataloge for outfit/accessory direct-purchase, include old outfits and accessories too

make everything tradeable

make AC tradeable.

there would need to be a lot more other changes in order to keep whales spending on AC, but im not really going to put much more thought into this
kek well whales wouldnt be whales if they could just straight buy what they wanted instead now, even if there is a market for penny pinching players, theyre more than willing to throw a couple of bucks buying said outfit and still not have to spend a whole lot in the long run and still get what they need

Dugs
Nov 13, 2018, 09:52 PM
After all this XH Forest stuff that's been going on, all I can really want is normal Dark Falz Hunar types to get a boost to match their Omega Falz Hunar types. The difference between Falz Hunar and Omega Hunar is utterly depressing.

Terrence
Nov 28, 2018, 08:42 AM
I'm a bit late... but I'll answer anyway. For EP6 to be right, I would like :

-1- A Collection File including a 14★ Launcher equipable by TEchters.
-2- A Tier7 option to have the same graphics as all Persona Concerts.

Strangely enough, it sounds like a letter to Santa. Good timing though.
That's not story/gameplay related. But wishes can take various forms !

GoldenFalcon
Nov 28, 2018, 12:51 PM
Add in Ground element. I've been wanting this since before Idola Saga was revealed. "Ground" enemies would be weak to Ground, which they also did in Idola Saga. If released at the same time as 15 stars, becomes an obvious choice for them.

Oh, and for the love of heck, add a drop-down menu in the PA menu so we don't have to scroll past all the Hu and Fi etc. PA's oh my god

BloodPuddles
Nov 28, 2018, 01:44 PM
Add in Ground element. I've been wanting this since before Idola Saga was revealed. "Ground" enemies would be weak to Ground, which they also did in Idola Saga. If released at the same time as 15 stars, becomes an obvious choice for them.

Oh, and for the love of heck, add a drop-down menu in the PA menu so we don't have to scroll past all the Hu and Fi etc. PA's oh my god

I agree with the new element so much. They'd have to balance it though, since right now light is just blatantly the best. They really need to switch some weaknesses off of light, or add more enemies that aren't weak to it.

Edit: P.S. Terrence I just realized, is that a sperm in your signature? Are those your babies?

ArcaneTechs
Nov 28, 2018, 02:20 PM
Add in Ground element.
Man ive been wanting this back since PSU after trying out wind and it being underwhelming (and still is). I almost never use Wind Techs outside Zanverse and Ra Zan, i dont think Re Zandia counts but thats basically it for me (T0 Na Zan too i guess)

Terrence
Nov 28, 2018, 04:21 PM
I would like to see the return of Ground element too (Diga Techs were my favorite ones back on PSU). :-(


Terrence I just realized, is that a sperm in your signature? Are those your babies?
I would have been very productive if I had conceived eleven children ! ^^
This is a sperm indeed, the emblem of my community since 2008, but those are only my Team members.

Dark Mits
Nov 28, 2018, 04:26 PM
I'd like another element as well, but they'd have to fix this overreliance on element for "proper" damage, and the entire neglecting of element for some builds (*cough*wand ring*cough*).

I'd also like if elements didn't come in pairs, but had some sort of rock-paper-scissors gameplay. Not all the way Pokemon style though or this (https://img.memecdn.com/rock-paper-scissors-101-elements-version-too-far_o_3127433.jpg).

Great Pan
Nov 28, 2018, 07:10 PM
Free Field PK. When playah dies, ALL his things in his bag drops and can be looted. This goes to ALL of the meseta the player carried too!

I'll prey on the weak.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 28, 2018, 10:24 PM
Free Field PK. When playah dies, ALL his things in his bag drops and can be looted. This goes to ALL of the meseta the player carried too!

I'll prey on the weak.
this isnt Runescape and obviously this is a sure fire way to get the player base to quit playing then you'll have no one to loot

SteveCZ
Nov 29, 2018, 12:34 AM
Hmm, for Hero, how about 1.2x dmg boost for next PA after Hero PA weapon switch? Call it PA Switch Bonus.
or... auto shifta/deband upon PA switch.

c:

Kilich
Nov 29, 2018, 03:11 AM
How about going from 'every class must be accessible and easy to play as standalone' to the old 'classes have strong sides and weak sides that are covered by subclasses, or teaming up with other players.'

Dark Mits
Nov 29, 2018, 03:51 AM
How about going from 'every class must be accessible and easy to play as standalone' to the old 'classes have strong sides and weak sides that are covered by subclasses, or teaming up with other players.'This actually already exists. It's the same as having a meta. Better performing classes/builds will be the "accessible" ones (like Hr at the start of EP5), and "worse" performing ones require grouping (like support-oriented TE).

Besides, in a game that is so solo-centric like PSO2, this would help kill it. I mean, in other games you want to group with people because without grouping you cannot complete relevant content. In PSO2 the situation (outside of EQs) is such that Sega actually had to give us outright Triboost bonuses when grouping up to entice us to party up. And I guess nearly everyone here has had experience with people who throw tantrums when you do not join their party for the extra +10% triboost to them.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 29, 2018, 04:05 AM
And I guess nearly everyone here has had experience with people who throw tantrums when you do not join their party for the extra +10% triboost to them.
>join PT invite mid run
>get 40% Tri Boost
>don't have to talk/greet/be social etc
>leave whenever you feel like it
>have a higher chance at drops than you would without a pt
>???????

Dark Mits
Nov 29, 2018, 04:45 AM
>join PT invite mid run
>get 40% Tri Boost
>don't have to talk/greet/be social etc
>leave whenever you feel like it
>have the party leader disband group before you are finished gathering items just because
>???????
I have already been fooled 3 times with the above. For some reason the leaders did NOT leave the group, they outright disbanded it or initiated another run without even asking if everyone is ready.

And on the other side of the coin, in groups that I was leading, I had a player lash at me because I "blocked" him from having a 5th run because I was waiting for confirmations from everyone before restarting a run. No thanks, I'd rather lose 30% rdr out of the total ~600% than have elitards in my group who hide behind the label "Expert".

Masu
Nov 29, 2018, 08:42 AM
You also take the risk to join a party where everyone but you spam autowords/SAs every second. Got into one lately and well...party boost? errr no thanks 0u0

ArcaneTechs
Nov 29, 2018, 09:34 PM
And on the other side of the coin, in groups that I was leading, I had a player lash at me because I "blocked" him from having a 5th run because I was waiting for confirmations from everyone before restarting a run. No thanks, I'd rather lose 30% rdr out of the total ~600% than have elitards in my group who hide behind the label "Expert".
i loot then restart asap, if people couldnt pick up fast enough then oh well. i occasionally warn people and they still get mad instead of being on the safe sad and being close as possible to the crystal. more runs, more chances at certain drops.

50 Inv? rip

its like getting mad at me during the boss rush LQ because i didnt let you loot the drops at the end when we're all here for EXP, just leave XD

Flaoc
Nov 29, 2018, 09:39 PM
hey man gotta get that 20k meseta from crystal to pay for the prem drink 2 Kappa (actually thats why i never lead despite fast loads LUL.. if i need to level in there for whatever reason to begin with)

ArcaneTechs
Nov 29, 2018, 09:45 PM
hey man gotta get that 20k meseta from crystal to pay for the prem drink 2 Kappa (actually thats why i never lead despite fast loads LUL.. if i need to level in there for whatever reason to begin with)
i get ya but from where im coming from, leveling is boring as hell and if i get 900k+ exp every 2-3mins i wanna keep it that way and keep moving until im ready to stop or hit that cap. i dont want to wait then get into a 5/12 mpa then have to wait longer for the other mpa's to finish and fill ours

Flaoc
Nov 29, 2018, 09:48 PM
oh yea.. i dont really wait for looters either.. infact i just make it the goal to beat the leader to restart on picking up the meseta crystal.. if i was lead i sure as hell wouldnt wait for loot

BloodPuddles
Nov 29, 2018, 10:25 PM
Lulz, I'm a cubeless scrub. I gotta solo the 75 one and check all the rare loot. Which I don't get, it seems like it would be way faster xp if people would actually run it.

Edit: Haha about that vvv, I couldn't get enough damage out as TE, so I switched to Hu, leveled it, and then decided but fighter would be so much more fun. Spent a couple weeks half assedly grinding a Kaiser Falx to do Partizan Fi, it wasn't overly great. Completely forgot of solo PDs existence, and I'm now working on getting the lambdas to get a Zara twin daggers. At one point I had over 200 from very inefficiently/infrequently playing the game over two years, and hardly ever grinding stuff. I really took that stockpile for granted after learning of Empe Embrace.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 29, 2018, 10:35 PM
Lulz, I'm a cubeless scrub. I gotta solo the 75 one and check all the rare loot. Which I don't get, it seems like it would be way faster xp if people would actually run it.
solo PD exists for fast cubes you know

XrosBlader821
Nov 30, 2018, 09:20 AM
i loot then restart asap, if people couldnt pick up fast enough then oh well. i occasionally warn people and they still get mad instead of being on the safe sad and being close as possible to the crystal. more runs, more chances at certain drops.

50 Inv? rip

its like getting mad at me during the boss rush LQ because i didnt let you loot the drops at the end when we're all here for EXP, just leave XD

I had people legitimately being mad at me cuz they missed a 13* drop because instead of turning on auto loot (they were fully aware of that function) or picking up asap and then looking at it in camp they wanted to see what the item was before picking it up THEN pick it up.

Yes, I was as baffled as you probably are.

Meteor Weapon
Nov 30, 2018, 09:31 AM
The only thing mattered picking up in the boss rush LQ was that 20-30k meseta which you can auto pick up and leave to campship asap, the rest is garbo.

Dark Mits
Nov 30, 2018, 02:33 PM
Don't get me wrong. You have absolutely every right to ignore all drops except meseta, and you have absolutely every right to restart a run when you're a leader without asking anyone if they're ready. When you're the leader, you decide what happens in the group. If you decide to boot the 3 pugs right before the boss ends so that they are forced back to the lobby without getting any exp or loot only and only for the lulz, that's your damn right as the leader, and the players who got booted have absolutely no reason to complain. The party members either agree with the actions of the leader and stay, or they don't and they leave.

And the exact same happens when I'm the leader. If you do not like that I pick up everything after a quest, then leave. If you do not like that I have autowords for EC starts and completions, then leave.

FYI, the player who disbanded the group instead of just leaving, was in a Deus run back when it was fairly new. I still do not understand the reasoning other than griefing. But he was the leader, it was the fault of the rest of us for not asking beforehand if we would have time to collect items at the end. And that's why I no longer join any non-premade parties of players that I know and trust, and why I ask for confirmations before restarting runs when I lead. If my pace is slow for you, then find a faster group.

SteveCZ
Nov 30, 2018, 10:53 PM
Speaking of silly never-ending pug party problems, recently iirc there was a huge boost for PD, and they were like all building a party and expecting me to join (cause it took a while for the teleporter to start, and the party request was aggressive, though through beacon). I just ignore them. I just don't freaking care, and I don't think I even need to tell why. I hope they remember my name, blacklist me, put me in "doesn't want to be in a party/loner scum" list and post it in 2ch or whatever, and stay away from me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PSO2 pug party is a big NO.

Gaugen
Dec 1, 2018, 01:15 AM
Speaking of silly never-ending pug party problems, recently iirc there was a huge boost for PD, and they were like all building a party and expecting me to join (cause it took a while for the teleporter to start, and the party request was aggressive, though through beacon). I just ignore them. I just don't freaking care, and I don't think I even need to tell why. I hope they remember my name, blacklist me, put me in "doesn't want to be in a party/loner scum" list and post it in 2ch or whatever, and stay away from me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PSO2 pug party is a big NO.

>Pug party is a big NO.

I'm all for playing the way you want, but this is by far the worst argument against this I have ever read. In fact, the argument is SO bad that I don't think you even understand how MPA's work.
Why the hell would you be worried about a pug party while in a pug MPA? It's not like they're magically going to disappear just because you didn't join their party. They're still there, and you're still there. The only difference is they're getting less party RDR (Which stacks multiplicatively with other boosts, meaning that the overall loss is much larger than just 10%.), while you get none at all.

Again, you're free to do what you want, but at least have a good reason for it. Even wanting to be a loner is a better reason than that stupid crap.

Moffen
Dec 1, 2018, 01:52 AM
a tiny bit less placebo rdr and a bit of exp in exchange for me actually getting my drops in any quest ever > joining parties tbh.
Had people disband their parties mid quest, kick at end crystal and me not being able to leave farming things when i want to unless the leader goes to boss is enough of a reason for me not to party with randoms.

FantasyHeaven
Dec 1, 2018, 01:54 AM
That's as good a reason as any. The only thing he did wrong was not start the teleporter the moment it goes 12/12. This is a solo game and I don't consider the other people running around as anything more than bots, since the game doesn't require any degree of communication or coordination.

Anduril
Dec 1, 2018, 02:46 AM
(Which stacks multiplicatively with other boosts, meaning that the overall loss is much larger than just 10%.)

Only the EXP portion of the Party Boost is multiplicative; the RDR portion is just additive.

SteveCZ
Dec 1, 2018, 03:21 AM
>Pug party is a big NO.

I'm all for playing the way you want, but this is by far the worst argument against this I have ever read. In fact, the argument is SO bad that I don't think you even understand how MPA's work.
Why the hell would you be worried about a pug party while in a pug MPA? It's not like they're magically going to disappear just because you didn't join their party. They're still there, and you're still there. The only difference is they're getting less party RDR (Which stacks multiplicatively with other boosts, meaning that the overall loss is much larger than just 10%.), while you get none at all.

Again, you're free to do what you want, but at least have a good reason for it. Even wanting to be a loner is a better reason than that stupid crap.

?????? I'm pretty sure your argument here is entirely irrelevant than what I posted.

I'm talking about pug party is a big NO, for me.
If everyone else wants to be in a party and attempt to, then go ahead feel free to do so, but I ain't joining one.

Which part of "I just ignore them. I just don't freaking care" saying I'm worried about them in parties? Don't judge based on assumption it will deter your opinion just like that.

ArcaneTechs
Dec 1, 2018, 05:31 AM
I had people legitimately being mad at me cuz they missed a 13* drop because instead of turning on auto loot (they were fully aware of that function) or picking up asap and then looking at it in camp they wanted to see what the item was before picking it up THEN pick it up.

Yes, I was as baffled as you probably are.
im extremely baffled to the point where they deserved not to get the drop because in this day and age, unless you dont how or that setting didnt exist, theres literally no excuse. youre farming endgame content, you want that immediately to hit your item pack asap


Speaking of silly never-ending pug party problems, recently iirc there was a huge boost for PD, and they were like all building a party and expecting me to join (cause it took a while for the teleporter to start, and the party request was aggressive, though through beacon). I just ignore them. I just don't freaking care, and I don't think I even need to tell why. I hope they remember my name, blacklist me, put me in "doesn't want to be in a party/loner scum" list and post it in 2ch or whatever, and stay away from me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PSO2 pug party is a big NO.
this sounds so unreal its ridiculous, like its mainly a personal social anxiety issue. i already have a pet peeve for people not starting the gate asap but to stand around and toss a bunch of PT invites and no one joins is something else. obviously simple solution is to start the gate yourself and get the quest going. being spammed with pt invites? black list and move on, simple, remove them off the list after if need be

if you dont want that 40% Tri cool, i mean its a free boost and you can just lead a PT of your own and call the shots. ez

SteveCZ
Dec 1, 2018, 06:09 AM
this sounds so unreal its ridiculous, like its mainly a personal social anxiety issue. i already have a pet peeve for people not starting the gate asap but to stand around and toss a bunch of PT invites and no one joins is something else. obviously simple solution is to start the gate yourself and get the quest going. being spammed with pt invites? black list and move on, simple, remove them off the list after if need be

??? Not you too.

I'm not insecure about people spamming party invites. I'm saying, that someone spamming that and I don't care, I'm not joining in, cause I don't like being in a pug party.

Geez guys which part of "I DON'T CARE" means I'm being annoyed by it? It's actually the opposite. In my post, I'm telling that the people in that mpa was (I assume) annoyed that I didn't accept their beacon, cause I don't care at all about their invites.

Edit:


if you dont want that 40% Tri cool, i mean its a free boost and you can just lead a PT of your own and call the shots. ez

Oh geez, I'm not letting them into my party either, noOooOo never. Friends/team only! =)

Meteor Weapon
Dec 1, 2018, 09:13 AM
Still not sure if pug-ing is a big issue unique to ship2 lol. On Ship 10 and I pug all the time and most of the time games went smoothly.

SteveCZ
Dec 1, 2018, 09:39 AM
Still not sure if pug-ing is a big issue unique to ship2 lol. On Ship 10 and I pug all the time and most of the time games went smoothly.

Maybe. No idea.

Saffran
Dec 1, 2018, 11:03 AM
I think what Japan understands under the role of Party Leader is not the same as what people here think.
What it means is that the burden of creating the room and going through all the menus falls on you. It doesn't mean you're a dictator and you just do whatever you want because fuck the rest of the world. Sure, you *can* turn into a dictator. But it's not a free pass saying "please be a dictator".
If anyone of you is on ship 7, please tell me your IDs. I need to know you're on my blacklist.

XrosBlader821
Dec 1, 2018, 11:11 AM
I think what Japan understands under the role of Party Leader is not the same as what people here think.
What it means is that the burden of creating the room and going through all the menus falls on you. It doesn't mean you're a dictator and you just do whatever you want because fuck the rest of the world. Sure, you *can* turn into a dictator. But it's not a free pass saying "please be a dictator".
If anyone of you is on ship 7, please tell me your IDs. I need to know you're on my blacklist.

What are you on about?

Saffran
Dec 1, 2018, 12:14 PM
>What are you on about?
I've just read the thread and I see several people publicly clamoring that leaders are entitled to behave like utter assholes because fuck whoever else is in their party. I'm just asking for the IDs so that I know who I have to blacklist. It's really not that controversial.

SteveCZ
Dec 1, 2018, 12:43 PM
I think what Japan understands under the role of Party Leader is not the same as what people here think.
What it means is that the burden of creating the room and going through all the menus falls on you. It doesn't mean you're a dictator and you just do whatever you want because fuck the rest of the world. Sure, you *can* turn into a dictator. But it's not a free pass saying "please be a dictator".
If anyone of you is on ship 7, please tell me your IDs. I need to know you're on my blacklist.

Nice. There is someone who is aware that players are real people. )b

Anyway, SEGA has done their best to ensure pug party almost as clear as when you make a pre-designed party. The beacons are one best invention they made, so you can barely even have to explain what the party goal is and also in less intrusive manner.

But even then it's not always enough. When Hero first released and I was leveling Hero in a 4/4 party (it was the 4/4 quest when Hero bug shenanigan could still work), the party leader still felt he has this obligation to say something simple like "Feel free to leave anytime if you're done." (in jap, i'm in ship 4) so I can leave without even saying anything. But I get it if some people don't care (nor understand) about these kind of social thingy in pug. =)

This is why, again, for me, it's way easier on friend-based/team-based designed parteeh.

Just play alone and you are free of these hassle, especially if you are lazy like me!

XrosBlader821
Dec 1, 2018, 12:45 PM
>What are you on about?
I've just read the thread and I see several people publicly clamoring that leaders are entitled to behave like utter assholes because fuck whoever else is in their party. I'm just asking for the IDs so that I know who I have to blacklist. It's really not that controversial.

Okay but what does that have to do with dictatorship?

Gaugen
Dec 1, 2018, 07:17 PM
??? Not you too.
Oh geez, I'm not letting them into my party either, noOooOo never. Friends/team only! =)


Are you even a real person? I'm starting to feel like this is some sort of advanced shitposting.
Either that, or you genuinely don't understand how the game works. You said my point was pointless, while at the same time continuing to spout the same stupidity over and over. The point was that whether you're in their party or not, they are STILL THERE. YOU are STILL THERE. You'd might as well take advantage of it.

Also, I am entirely convinced that the problems you are list don't actually even happen. Whenever I join a party for a single EQ, very rarely does anyone even SPEAK, let alone do anything else. I have well over 4000 hours in this game, have been playing since open beta, and have never once encountered this supposed issue you are facing. People just want the boost. They don't want to fuck you, or anyone else over. And I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that either.

Also, with your rule of "partying with team / friends only".
I challenge you to think of one legitimate reason why this would ever need to be necessary. Assuming you have expert matching unlocked, you are almost always in good hands when joining a pug for an EQ.

Moffen
Dec 1, 2018, 08:27 PM
Are you even a real person? I'm starting to feel like this is some sort of advanced shitposting.
Either that, or you genuinely don't understand how the game works. You said my point was pointless, while at the same time continuing to spout the same stupidity over and over. The point was that whether you're in their party or not, they are STILL THERE. YOU are STILL THERE. You'd might as well take advantage of it.

Also, I am entirely convinced that the problems you are list don't actually even happen. Whenever I join a party for a single EQ, very rarely does anyone even SPEAK, let alone do anything else. I have well over 4000 hours in this game, have been playing since open beta, and have never once encountered this supposed issue you are facing. People just want the boost. They don't want to fuck you, or anyone else over. And I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that either.

Also, with your rule of "partying with team / friends only".
I challenge you to think of one legitimate reason why this would ever need to be necessary. Assuming you have expert matching unlocked, you are almost always in good hands when joining a pug for an EQ.

If he doesnt want to party with randoms then he doesnt want to party with randoms, stop getting so goddamn mad about it.

Gaugen
Dec 1, 2018, 10:06 PM
If he doesnt want to party with randoms then he doesnt want to party with randoms, stop getting so goddamn mad about it.

That's not even the issue here. I'm upset over the blatant misinformation of "Playing in a pug party is BAD". People could end up looking at this guys posts and basing their opinions on his. That is NOT something I want to see.

SteveCZ
Dec 1, 2018, 10:57 PM
Are you even a real person? I'm starting to feel like this is some sort of advanced shitposting.
Either that, or you genuinely don't understand how the game works. You said my point was pointless, while at the same time continuing to spout the same stupidity over and over. The point was that whether you're in their party or not, they are STILL THERE. YOU are STILL THERE. You'd might as well take advantage of it.

Also, I am entirely convinced that the problems you are list don't actually even happen. Whenever I join a party for a single EQ, very rarely does anyone even SPEAK, let alone do anything else. I have well over 4000 hours in this game, have been playing since open beta, and have never once encountered this supposed issue you are facing. People just want the boost. They don't want to fuck you, or anyone else over. And I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that either.


You and me are on a different end of the same spectrum, Gaugen. And I get it if you don't understand my post. You're probably an avid pug party taker that haven't faced a single concern like people in previous posts (and any old party issues talk), I don't know, and I don't see a problem to that. But you clearly seem to be troubled over my choice who choose to be on the other end, even if I barely have any concern myself, like you. Doesn't sound fair isn't it?

Okay so let me elaborate (sigh...) Now, Some people in the previous posts show real problems related to barely new party issues:
- Kicked/disbanded for no reason
- Autowords/SAs spam every second (not including area-based spam)
- Went into party that apparently has a diff goal that leads to retry conflict (before beacon exists, and apparently still happen after beacon exists)
- Many more from past pso-world pug party issues that aren't new

You may not face it, I may not face it, but these folks do, and it's probably highly irritating for them. So I said with a story, why not ignore it all the way? It's zero concern! They can join my "no pug party movement" whatever, if they like.

Of course, if these folks can endure those issues just fine for the sake of delicious 40% triboost, these problems won't be much of an issue and they wouldn't need to pick my choice isn't it? That's why I said your post, which I assume actually towards me and not related to previous posts, is irrelevant.

I concern about them as a real person, if that's what you asked. Their issues may be petty issues, and some of you probably only think about yourself by saying "I never/barely faced it, so it shouldn't be a concern" or "I can get over it, so why wouldn't you?", but no matter how small we see it, the issues are as real as how they see it, that maybe a candy like 40% triboost aren't even worth for them.



Also, with your rule of "partying with team / friends only".
I challenge you to think of one legitimate reason why this would ever need to be necessary.

Err.. maybe cause it's simply I'd rather play with friends/team cause it's easier, more fun, less irritating, and I can very well tolerate them for mistakes rather than in pug party, etc.? Aren't these... common reasons if you're a real person? I concern about you more now, actually.


... expert matching ... almost always in good hands when joining a pug for an EQ.

Hahaha. You may not have been around the forum for quite a while. Remember the black dragon EQ thread? It's related to pages of people dying in expert blocks pug. Wait, I don't need to elaborate this, right?


It's a public game, and you'll meet many kind of people. Sadly for you, that includes people like me. Sadly for me too, that includes people like you. And I am doing just fine with it. You however clearly don't, and I get it. Yet, while we debate over this even when both of us are happy enough over our own choices, there are people in the middle trying to choose sides; one time they complain about it, one time another they can get over it. Again related to the previous posts from mine in concern, people are 100% have a choice to not follow my solution if they can endure all the risks they mentioned before, for the sake of 40% triboost. No need to get mad over it.

ArcaneTechs
Dec 2, 2018, 12:13 AM
so you have either social issues or you just get annoyed super easy because people spam invites? i mean, again, ignore them and move on? you act like people are going to personally hunt you down because you didnt join them.

and then we got mr dictator over there thinking people are going to dox their in game ID's just so they can blacklist ahead of time.

you guys may have had a handful of bad experiences in the past but you guys act like this is something happens to you on a 24/7 basis but you cant refute that if you arent actually joining pug parties anymore and sticking to your own PT's or with team mates

this is one wild roller coaster

SteveCZ
Dec 2, 2018, 01:57 AM
so you have either social issues or you just get annoyed super easy because people spam invites?

Nope. But hey, you can assume all you like. Clearly you didn't read my post, twice.


ignore them and move on?

I actually am.

Okay.. so let me repost some sentences to clarify for the 3rd time:
"Geez guys which part of "I DON'T CARE" means I'm being annoyed by it? It's actually the opposite. In my post, I'm telling that the people in that mpa was (I assume) annoyed that I didn't accept their beacon, cause I don't care at all about their invites."
"I just ignore them. I just don't freaking care, and I don't think I even need to tell why. I hope they remember my name, blacklist me, put me in "doesn't want to be in a party/loner scum" list and post it in 2ch or whatever, and stay away from me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

Which part of these, saying that I am annoyed? More like I should be sorry that these people are probably annoyed, and if they do are annoyed, I'm not gonna change anyway, and if they like, they can just remember my name and move somewhere else or don't start the mpa so I move to other mpa. It's so simple.

Hmm this actually makes me wonder.... The fact that you and Gaugen are somehow annoyed about the post would only mean both of you are insecure of my presence (and others like me) in the mpa, while me, if both of you happens to be in the same mpa (which we won't, dw), I don't mind at all. But please don't cry if I don't press your happy little beacon near me. =)

Anyway it's funny you guys, since when wanting to consistently playing alone and only with friends/team-only need to have a reason, especially negative ones? Social anxiety issues? Really? That's very narrow minded.

ArcaneTechs
Dec 2, 2018, 02:01 AM
Hmm this actually makes me wonder.... The fact that you and Gaugen are somehow annoyed about the post would only mean both of you are insecure of my presence (and others like me) in the mpa, while me, if both of you happens to be in the same mpa (which we won't, dw), I don't mind at all. But please don't cry if I don't press your happy little beacon near me. =)

Anyway it's funny you guys, since when wanting to consistently playing alone and only with friends/team-only need to have a reason, especially negative ones? Social anxiety issues? Really? That's very narrow minded.
stop acting like a special snowflake, thanks

SteveCZ
Dec 2, 2018, 02:08 AM
stop acting like a special snowflake, thanks

Thanks for the reminder, troll. :D

ArcaneTechs
Dec 2, 2018, 03:48 AM
Thanks for the reminder, troll. :D
im not shitposting

SteveCZ
Dec 2, 2018, 04:04 AM
im not shitposting

We are now, just admit it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

silo1991
Dec 20, 2018, 11:54 AM
maybe its a little late for this comment but recently i trough a change the game needs in a matter of requierments for XH EQ and its a point system like other MMOs

something that really bother me while i was leveling up my 3rd character as a hero is: i was lvl 75 and i couldnt participate in EQs that requier lvl 80 but i have 12* full set armor and my 14* atra sword and 13* schevelle TMG ( i didnt like talis but is still equiped) with all kind of effects for having extra HP, PP and stats at the point of been considered ( in words of a cousin) cheated equipment .

my proposition is to add the point system in which influence the next things:
1 the class levels main and sub ( which will be easiest of all).

2 the lvl grind and quantity of efects of the main class weapons ,in this case is gonna count only 1 main class type weapon (for example you are a hunter and you have 6 weapons , 2 of each type but for the system only will count the strongest sword , partizan and wire lance you have )

2.5: the highest level pet and the best one equiped with candies of each type in the case of summoners
3 same for armors ( in my case only have 4 effects each )
4 having the titles that gives extra stats (not sure about this one, what do you think guys)

my point is , the quality of your equipment should work as a handicap for been able to enter to XH EQs

XrosBlader821
Mar 24, 2019, 01:46 PM
Idc if this is a Necropost. This needs to be finally sorted out in EP6.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373187321534873620/559447384070029322/unknown.png

ArcaneTechs
Mar 24, 2019, 02:42 PM
I've been wanting that since Ep3 bro, still waiting

SteveCZ
Mar 26, 2019, 09:31 PM
Idc if this is a Necropost. This needs to be finally sorted out in EP6.

Episode 6 is not here yet so I guess it's fine. I'd love this too.

Tyreek
Mar 26, 2019, 10:15 PM
Well since this thread has risen from its grave, I'll add my two cents. I'd like mags improved even better. Strengthen photon blasts more, or add a skill to up its damage even better. They've been completely overshadowed in their supplementary department in getting you out of trouble since they added stuff like dark blasts to the game. Making new photon blasts and evolutions wouldn't hurt either. Also having a pure mag as the end all be all kind of ruined what made experimenting with mags fun in the old PSO. All the experimentation that went into finding the best mag for you based on X stat + Y stat = Z evolution, and where your build went for your character.

Everything is strictly pure this and pure that, and that is all that matters. Quick and dirty will gimp you, and balancing stats will gimp you. On that note, maybe make the S/R/T DEF stats a worthwhile option since going for one pure stat is the way to go? Perhaps grant a far more tankier build by going full defense? I don't know, but in my opinion, mags need a QoL check again if they're gonna remain any sort of interesting. Partner characters got a level cap increase now. When was the last time we seen anything special with mags lately? LV200?

ArcaneTechs
Mar 26, 2019, 11:18 PM
I'd like mags improved even better. Strengthen photon blasts more, or add a skill to up its damage even better.

SU has a skill that boost Photon Blast damage and yet nobody grabs it for obvious reason


Making new photon blasts and evolutions wouldn't hurt either.

I wouldn't mind this even if its hybrids of current PB's, the same what 4? 5? are kinda boring and mostly used in utility


Also having a pure mag as the end all be all kind of ruined what made experimenting with mags fun in the old PSO. All the experimentation that went into finding the best mag for you based on X stat + Y stat = Z evolution, and where your build went for your character.
People already gave suggestions on Mag builds back then and having a pure mag during Ep 1/2 wasn't a bad thing but essentially people just raised their mags specific stats to get a special mag once it hit Lv100 or in other cases just modded it in. Essentially people either did:

Lv200 pure mag
Lv175 stat + 25 other stat + 0 + 0
Lv150 stat + 50 other stat + 0 + 0
Lv150 stat + 25 other stat + 25 + 0

With how PSO2 is, pure mag is really the only way to go and with how Sega is treating your mags stat conversions on certain classes (Hero, Phantom, Braver, Bouncer), it works out just fine.


On that note, maybe make the S/R/T DEF stats a worthwhile option since going for one pure stat is the way to go? Perhaps grant a far more tankier build by going full defense?

If they offered something like Max out Def stats but converted a portion of it into attack I can see this working but essentially pure Def in general isn't like a massive improvement which is why people will add All Resist over something like Ability3 or Body 3 because that works better in reducing damage taken


I don't know, but in my opinion, mags need a QoL check again if they're gonna remain any sort of interesting. Partner characters got a level cap increase now. When was the last time we seen anything special with mags lately? LV200?

Theres not a lot you can really do with Mags that they haven't already done without just adding new attacks/abilities, reducing the amount of energy your Mag consumes when using its abilities or attacks etc. They're mostly there just for an extra stat increase and the occasional Photon Blast.

I don't know when the last time I even used my Partner bot outside being decoys on quests or distracting mobs when I'm gathering. They're not even my room either. I'd be really interested if Sega decided to do something about Mags and Partner bots but it just seems like a low priority sorta deal (unless they announce something soon)

GHNeko
Mar 27, 2019, 12:37 AM
i just want sega to restore build variety.

revive classes BrGu, FoGu, TeGu, FiBr, RaBr, RaGu, GuHu(lol), FoBr, and other classes that have basically vanished. Better support the lesser classes like FoFi and FiBo that exist but not in any relevant capacity.

stop making main class only weapons. i can count the number of off class 14* weapons on ONE hand.

be more intelligent in what skills are main class only.

So far Ph sub is a fantastic alternative to Hu for striking builds, but that's about it. :/

Revive extends like you said you were going to ages ago too wtf.

revive c-mode please.

ArcaneTechs
Mar 27, 2019, 01:50 AM
revive classes BrGu, FoGu, TeGu, FiBr, RaBr, RaGu, GuHu(lol), FoBr, and other classes that have basically vanished. Better support the lesser classes like FoFi and FiBo that exist but not in any relevant capacity.


whys Gu/Hu there? its still a thing even if it has less dmg on SRoll Arts, its the more tankier option

Dark Mits
Mar 27, 2019, 02:33 AM
Regarding mags: It's not hard, it just takes effort. And Sega has other priorities most likely. But since I like to play armchair developer, I'll chime in:

Mag damage suffers because all other damage sources are massively buffed. Even with SU's PB boost and maxxed Mag ring, your mag's active damage contribution will not exceed 1% contribution to your total damage. In fact most of the time I see numbers closer to 0.05% for Persona EQ from other players, which is like 2 weapon swings.

QoL would be to somehow make Photon Blast more foolproof and Mag (re)actions more reliable. With enemies dying left and right in 2 seconds and bosses teleporting around, most PBs do not manage to get many hits before dissipating. This of course would reduce the skill required in activating it the "right" moment. Similarily, modifying abilities like Revival A or HP Restore x to have higher activation chance, would just allow players to play more recklessly and not more clever.

Non-pure ATK mags are not meta because they never have better results than pure ATK. This is because of Sega's design to add mag stats to the character. If mags had different effects depending on their innate stats that overshadowed +200 atk, there would be higher variety. Sega did try a bit with Braver Mag and now with Phantom Mag to give value to DEX, but that just shifts the meta for specific builds (Br and Ph ones in fact) and does not introduce viability to non-pure mags. The fact that Photon Blast, Actions and S-Action is not dependent on mag stats also does not help.

DEF Mags are useless for the same reason why noone uses Mark Grif, Body/React/Mind, the same reason why anyone who has Ability has it for the ATK part, for the same reason why Persona Reverie is better than Elder/Loser/Apprezina Reverie, why noone uses Defense tree boost, why noone uses Deband drink, why noone ever picks DEF skills in trees, why noone uses Guard Stance for survivability and why very rarely do people care to use Deband even as TEchers. Sega actually had an amazing solution to this (-80% healing reduction), and from what I've read the playerbase hated it because it would require them to play carefully. As I said somewhere else, the game is designed so that 800HP / 1200 DEF / 0% Resist characters only get killed by actions that would kill any non-pure-tank build, so why go for survivability. And if something is about to kill you (for example Persona's sphere, Mother's cubes), just Photon Blast through it. Or just have Atlas Ex revive you. Or wait for a Moon Atomizer. Or just Halfdoll. Either way, you still get S rank and your rewards are not effected.


Regarding viability of builds: This is again something that cannot happen due to meta, and there is only 1 way to tackle such issue (and it applies to every game with class/subclass system): Neuter the effect of subclasses so that having subclass A is not really different from having subclass B. If it was possible to have 2 different subclasses within 1% of each other, then the better one would become meta and the worse one would become the wrong/noob choice.

XrosBlader821
Mar 27, 2019, 02:27 PM
So far Ph sub is a fantastic alternative to Hu for striking builds, but that's about it. :/

Summoner is a striking class apparently


and why very rarely do people care to use Deband even as TEchers.

What Techtors do you play with? lol

Poyonche
Mar 27, 2019, 03:03 PM
Summoner is a striking class apparently

Behold the power of my taktstock blows

ArcaneTechs
Mar 27, 2019, 03:39 PM
What Techtors do you play with? lol
>run Enchanted Forest
>see TE
>they arent buffing
>theyre legit just wand smacking, dying, zondeeling only

Triggering me bro

Dark Mits
Mar 27, 2019, 04:25 PM
What Techtors do you play with? lolPuG ones. I main TE, so I always cast Deband before it falls off for any member of my party. What I am saying is not some biased result since I play both on Expert and non-Expert modes; Literally every other TE that I've encountered in Persona EQ (not that many, probably less than 10 all these months, almost noone mains TE) used Deband only at the countdown, never during the fight. They would however make sure to reapply Shifta, sometimes even 2 times within the same minute. They also did not have Rebirth Bonus (Shifta+Deband on rezzed players). At some point I wanted to believe that I just encountered FOs who were levelling their sub, but a couple of those TEs were 90.

Back on topic: If we haven't mentioned it already, I'd like Sega to make Rare Boss triggers worth again. I'll be honest that I have not tried Rogbelt trigger in XH Nooberius Forest, but it would be nice if triggers, considering their cost, gave something more useful than just rare disks (which are useless now due to Excube shop) and a small RDR boost for a few mins.

GHNeko
Mar 27, 2019, 06:50 PM
whys Gu/Hu there? its still a thing even if it has less dmg on SRoll Arts, its the more tankier option

GuHus still exist in the sea of GuFis? GuHu's tankiness means nothing in the face of life-steal and sroll. Even though i went on break i was still around for a vast majority of GuFi's reign and there were almost no GuHus anymore. To say that GuHu is still meta feels a bit false to me.



Regarding viability of builds: This is again something that cannot happen due to meta, and there is only 1 way to tackle such issue (and it applies to every game with class/subclass system): Neuter the effect of subclasses so that having subclass A is not really different from having subclass B. If it was possible to have 2 different subclasses within 1% of each other, then the better one would become meta and the worse one would become the wrong/noob choice.

Absolutely disagree because the viability of builds are based upon their ability to fill a niche that is A. Useful and B. Unique.

FiBo's Niche is higher damage output than BoHu on top of viable Technic Damage at the cost of survivability. This increases its skill floor and ceiling which doesn't make it 100% superior choice to BoHu. The current issue with FiBo that is nto a fault of FiBo is its crippling weapon pool and of the weapons it can use, Zirenheit NT is highly limited in what content it functions in, which inturn limits the class. If it wasnt for the potential, then the class would do much better in way more content.

FoGu's niche was its ridiculous burst damage on single target. It's current faults lie it's lack of mobbing and PP regen and gu sub being completely gutted and shitty weapon pool.

RaBr's niche was its ability to use Ranger's main class weapons while having proper access to Bow and its crazy damage output at the cost of survivability. Now BrRa does 90% of RaBr could do but better, but giving RaBr bow's that revival modern day Bows and loosen up Bullet Keep to apply to more than just 2 weapons, and RaBr could almost certainly carve out a niche of its own.

the list goes on. You don't have to nerf subclass system just to allow variety in builds. I'm not asking for builds to be viable in all classes (though that's possible) but saying that it's not able to happen because of "meta" couldnt be further from the truth. It's not just about damage, but also useful and practical utility. If it was about damage, Fi sub would be far more prominent.


Summoner is a striking class apparently

?????

ArcaneTechs
Mar 27, 2019, 08:51 PM
GuHus still exist in the sea of GuFis? GuHu's tankiness means nothing in the face of life-steal and sroll. Even though i went on break i was still around for a vast majority of GuFi's reign and there were almost no GuHus anymore. To say that GuHu is still meta feels a bit false to me.

after checking GU's for the past couple of months, I'd say its like 70-30 Gu/Fi-Gu/Hu I want to say 60-40 but obviously I don't have exact numbers They aren't rampant like everyone thinks they are and some people still prefer Gu/Hu with Lifesteal despite this. I didn't say it was Meta but its still up there, its not like on idk Bo or Te tier


?????
Either referring to people subbing that disgusting class combo Hu/Su or the fact that Su/Fi is the strongest combo with Strike Switch and S-Atk gear/pet investments

GHNeko
Mar 27, 2019, 09:27 PM
after checking GU's for the past couple of months, I'd say its like 70-30 Gu/Fi-Gu/Hu I want to say 60-40 but obviously I don't have exact numbers They aren't rampant like everyone thinks they are and some people still prefer Gu/Hu with Lifesteal despite this. I didn't say it was Meta but its still up there, its not like on idk Bo or Te tier

that's wild cuz i can count the amount of GuHus on one hand tbh fam

either way i solidly stand by the idea that EP6 should absolutely add more class variety by reviving old builds and giving them a niche for them to excel at that gives people reason to play them over what's commonly chosen while actively supporting the classes by stopping this stupid ass trend of all weapons being main class only.

some of the most limiting bullshit this game has pulled.

ArcaneTechs
Mar 27, 2019, 10:51 PM
that's wild cuz i can count the amount of GuHus on one hand tbh fam

either way i solidly stand by the idea that EP6 should absolutely add more class variety by reviving old builds and giving them a niche for them to excel at that gives people reason to play them over what's commonly chosen while actively supporting the classes by stopping this stupid ass trend of all weapons being main class only.

some of the most limiting bullshit this game has pulled.
i know you're joking but Gu/Hu is still a thing and Gu/Fi not all over the place like people think it is but like I said, you'll see one more than the other atm

i like hybrids but i also like the main class stuff and i mainly say this because i got tired of Sega screwing with Gu back when CT was usable by any class and in return kept nerfing the class to the point it was least played by everyone

GHNeko
Mar 27, 2019, 11:19 PM
it was too hard for sega to make weapon specific multipliers for CT.

i mean it took them until EP6 just to make stances/skills that have unique values for damage types.

XrosBlader821
Mar 28, 2019, 02:56 AM
?????

You said Ph is only good subclass for striking classes and yet Su/Ph is going to be a thing,


i mean it took them until EP6 just to make stances/skills that have unique values for damage types.

I guess Fury Stance was introduced in EP6

GHNeko
Mar 28, 2019, 03:12 AM
You said Ph is only good subclass for striking classes and yet Su/Ph is going to be a thing,



I guess Fury Stance was introduced in EP6

SuPh eh? I'll admit it completely slipped my mind because nothing that Ph sub currently offers gives enough value to Su for it to be something that will have a niche for it to fill.Off the top of my head since PP regen isnt anything Su has issue with and crit isnt really a factor either, which are the 2 unique traits of Ph sub.

As for fury stance, I swear to god I mentioned something about it, but I guess I forgot to add that so that's my bad lmao. Fury Stance aside, they havnt seperated multis from stances. So generally my point still stands.

XrosBlader821
Mar 28, 2019, 03:46 AM
SuPh eh? I'll admit it completely slipped my mind because nothing that Ph sub currently offers gives enough value to Su for it to be something that will have a niche for it to fill.Off the top of my head since PP regen isnt anything Su has issue with and crit isnt really a factor either, which are the 2 unique traits of Ph sub.

As for fury stance, I swear to god I mentioned something about it, but I guess I forgot to add that so that's my bad lmao. Fury Stance aside, they havnt seperated multis from stances. So generally my point still stands.

How is Crit not a factor when Su has Crit Damage parfaits that give a reasonable amount of damage compared to other Parfaits conditional ones.

The problem with the damage multipliers isn't that they don't separate them but that they started doing it but then forgot to keep doing it once the Subclass system and other classes released.

Hunter only boosted Striking damage and ranged (due to Hunter being the Gunslash class)
Ranger only boosts Ranged damage
Force only boosts Technics

then the subclass system rolled along and the new classes had
Fighter boosting all 3 Damage types
Gunner boosting all 3 Damage types
Techtor boosting all 3 with EWH but still mainly focusing on Technics

And once time came to introduce new classes and new skills they forgot a lot of their design philosophies

GHNeko
Mar 28, 2019, 01:26 PM
How is Crit not a factor when Su has Crit Damage parfaits that give a reasonable amount of damage compared to other Parfaits conditional ones.

The problem with the damage multipliers isn't that they don't separate them but that they started doing it but then forgot to keep doing it once the Subclass system and other classes released.

Hunter only boosted Striking damage and ranged (due to Hunter being the Gunslash class)
Ranger only boosts Ranged damage
Force only boosts Technics

then the subclass system rolled along and the new classes had
Fighter boosting all 3 Damage types
Gunner boosting all 3 Damage types
Techtor boosting all 3 with EWH but still mainly focusing on Technics

And once time came to introduce new classes and new skills they forgot a lot of their design philosophies

Crit isnt really a factor != Crit is not a factor.

Crit isnt really a factor because the crit parfait doesnt boost crit. You'd get 80% assuming Tech Crit works with Pets, and then you'd have to make up the rest some how by mucking with your box, but even then the Parfait is only 10% and you can just use Daredevil which is less conditional, and the extra Pp cost is fairly negliable when you use the right pet and/or personality with a proper battery and set up. Honestly though, I havnt been keeping up with Su so it's not really something I can go back and forth about for long periods of time; so I'll just let it go at this point.


And you're basically right on how they they forgot about different levels of multipliers for different damage types. They do not do it now and they havnt in years so its as if they havnt dont it at all and because of that, weapon specific multipliers (other than 0% for everything but XYZ) for things like CT are beyond their imagination if it took them this long to do unique multipliers for damage types in a single skill.

Zephyrion
Mar 28, 2019, 04:06 PM
hopefully they start making more innate PAs/multi-class weapons if only to let people have fun. Saharling 2.0 and Vlad part were breaths of fresh air and didn't even break the game, just provided some fun and cheeky utility overall

NightlightPro
Mar 29, 2019, 08:24 AM
I'd like to have more than 10 Sub Palette actions

i know the limit is 10 but since i play with controller and i don't even use 1-0 keys, so they could extend it for controller-users

the_importer_
Mar 29, 2019, 08:50 AM
I'd like to have more than 10 Sub Palette actions

i know the limit is 10 but since i play with controller and i don't even use 1-0 keys, so they could extend it for controller-users

Well if you play with a DualShock 4, here's a post of mine from last year:

I personally use a DualShock 4 on my PC using DS4Windows. This program allows me to use my DualShock 4 as is it was an XBOX 360/One controller. Besides the fact that I prefer the smaller size of PlayStation controllers for my tiny hands Vs the bulkier size of XBOX controllers, what makes this special are the programmable aspects that comes with the software.

1- I can use it wired with micro USB or wirelessly with a Bluetooth dongle

2- I can map keyboard keys and macros to any buttons

3- I can remap any XBOX button to any PS4 button

4- I can use any function of the PS button and touch pad as macros or keyboard keys

So how do I control the game, well let’s start with the basics:

X = Jump
O = Confirm/Select
◻ = Attack 1
△ = Attack 2
L1 = DS4Windows Shift Key
L2 = Evade/Mirage Escape
R1 = Attack 3
R2 = Use Sub-Palette Item
L3 = Nothing
R3 = Swap Weapon Palette
Share = Quick Menu
Option = Main Menu
Left Stick = Move
Right Stick = Camera Control
D-Pad Up/Down = Nothing
D-Pad Left/Right = Select Sub-Palette Item

Now for the fun programmable part:

PS Button = N Keyboard Key to Display Full Map
L1 + D-Pad Left = Chat Command to Equip Weapon 1
L1 + D-Pad Up = Chat Command to Equip Weapon 2
L1 + D-Pad Right = Chat Command to Equip Weapon 3
L1 + D-Pad Down = Chat Command to Equip Weapon 4
L1 + L3 = Chat Command to Equip Weapon 5
L1 + R3 = Chat Command to Equip Weapon 6
Touch Pad Swap Left = Use Sub-Palette Item 4
Touch Pad Swap Up = Use Sub-Palette Item 5
Touch Pad Swap Right = Use Sub-Palette Item 6
Touch Pad Swap Down = Use Sub-Palette Item 7
Touch Pad Press Left = Use Sub-Palette Item 8
Touch Pad Press Right = Use Sub-Palette Item 9
Touch Pad Press Both Left & Right = Use Sub-Palette Item 0

Sub-Palette 1 to 3 are usually for Dimates, Trimates and Sol Atomizers, the Compound Techs or other things which I’ll select with the D-Pad and use with the R2 trigger.

AVO
Mar 29, 2019, 05:27 PM
Getting the 'bouncer is a support' part right so i can quit this game forever

ArcaneTechs
Mar 29, 2019, 08:53 PM
Getting the 'bouncer is a support' part right so i can quit this game forever
im still mad at the fact that they're going to treat Bouncer this way, just WarTecher all over again

XrosBlader821
Mar 30, 2019, 07:30 PM
Honestly Bouncer as a Support doesn't even have to break it's current DPS rotation. Just make that Potential of the 14* Jet Boots from Dragon a Skill on the tree, and add some unique behaviour to Shifta and Deband, perhaps make Shifta air attack and Deband PP regen apply to other party members as well. This would improve the class as a support while also giving the player a opportunity to improve their DPS by making Elemental Burst actually useful (and not only useful on one single pair of boots, wtf Sega). Or another Idea would be to make a bouncer skill where the Bouncer themselves deal higher damage inside Zanverse, regardless if it's theirs or a different players. Which would again encourage the player to use that support ability and improving their DPS in the process. OR just give us a Crit Damage and Elemental Weak Hit Damage skill to the respective Field skills. 5% each would be enough to make the class more support orientated while also increasing DPS in the process. It's not that hard Sega.

ArcaneTechs
Mar 30, 2019, 10:17 PM
I just capped Bo/Hu and after looking up and learning some of the optimal combos with both weps, the class just feels overall clunky as hell with certain DB PAs needing buffs (because theyre not worth using with current combos like Immortal Dove or Justice Crow) or even a T0 to get off the DW train and well with JBs only having 4 PAs its limiting as it is so not much has changed from when i last touched the class.

Its definitely on the mid tier level from how im viewing it but god i hope they help out BO way more, it needs it

Zorak000
Mar 31, 2019, 04:22 PM
I want to be able to reconnect to an MPA when I 630

/thread

Meteor Weapon
Mar 31, 2019, 05:35 PM
I want to be able to reconnect to an MPA when I 630

/thread
This so much

wefwq
Apr 1, 2019, 04:14 AM
They need to improve item trade UI, it can get really confusing at times especially weapon upgrades.

SteveCZ
Apr 1, 2019, 07:02 AM
I want to be able to reconnect to an MPA when I 630

/thread

Holy crap, this, yes I want this too.

the_importer_
Apr 1, 2019, 07:51 AM
I want to be able to reconnect to an MPA when I 630

/thread

Yes, something like a 5 minute chance to join back would be great.

Also, for my end, I'd like the /ms# command to work during a quest, not to change classes, but in order to change trees, something that you can do in the lobby after starting a quest anyway. Imagine being able to load a different trees for your class and subclass depending on the weapon or tech you are using. At the same time, SEGA could make a but load of cash selling extra trees.

Moffen
Apr 1, 2019, 12:22 PM
Please let me pan the camera up or down during lock-on mode
thank.

Touka
Apr 2, 2019, 12:03 AM
Ok so we're not getting grade 7 graphics fine but can we at least get proper gfx settings?Rather than just "vsync" why not list stuff like variable vsync etc?Pc needs stuff like this.

lostinseganet
Apr 2, 2019, 07:46 PM
I want a new CG intro

Titan
Apr 3, 2019, 04:32 PM
Every time I do these idea lists, Sega has implemented 100% of my ideas in the past almost verbatim. I think I might lose out on my streak with the SUV idea.

-I would like more Ultimate Quest for Kuron/Phantoms/Oceanids
.
-Let me craft the same skill/tech over and over without resetting my cursor position.

-Give the option to see if a party member gets a 13* item or above.

-Make the next successor class have Jet Boots with Knuckles and name the class Tekken.

-Make a Form Change Pass for units.

-Give A.I.S. Ares Espada from PSU.

-Allow me to preview both gender LA before buying.

-Put an opacity slider on accessories

silo1991
Apr 3, 2019, 04:47 PM
Every time I do these idea lists, Sega has implemented 100% of my ideas in the past almost verbatim. I think I might lose out on my streak with the SUV idea.

-I would like more Ultimate Quest for Kuron/Phantoms/Oceanids
.
-Let me craft the same skill/tech over and over without resetting my cursor position.

-Give the option to see if a party member gets a 13* item or above.

-Make the next successor class have Jet Boots with Knuckles and name the class Tekken.

-Make a Form Change Pass for units.

-Give A.I.S. Ares Espada from PSU.

-Allow me to preview both gender LA before buying.

-Put an opacity slider on accessories

1 not with the phantoms pls

2 that may save some time

3 already implemented

4 sounds nice , i have an idea for a succesor class which use a shield in armor section , but the weapon can be partizans (emulating the roman soldiers fighting style) , wands(templar knights) and gunslash (as the range weapon mostly) and call it the crusaider

5 i dont understand it

6 already implemented