PSO2 and other Games with Gatcha Prizes in Japan Could be in Trouble.

[the_importer_]

From: https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/ftc-loot-box-investigation-1203038178/

"Belgium, Netherlands, and Japan have moved to regulate the use of loot boxes in video games given this close link to gambling."

[Sayara]

The gacha scratch thing is part of the reason the game had such a difficult failure of getting to the US. This is nothing new and probably won't change things since this is an American issue and wont really mess about playing a Japanese game for the general Japanese audience.

Games from Blizzard (Overwatch/HOTS) or whatever might be a different story.

[the_importer_]

The gacha scratch thing is part of the reason the game had such a difficult failure of getting to the US. This is nothing new and probably won't change things since this is an American issue and wont really mess about playing a Japanese game for the general Japanese audience.

Games from Blizzard (Overwatch/HOTS) or whatever might be a different story.

I know about NA and Europe, but now Japan is looking in it as well. Guess they may want to regulate is like they do with other forms of gambling.

[BloodPuddles]

NOOO!!! Toram. If people don't gamble on gems to get all the boss drops I'll have no game to farm them. Then what'll I play when I'm too tired to sit up?

P.S. That bitch makes me ashamed to be from here, worlds largest arcade is the only thing that makes me wanna stay.

Edit: Never mind, I just checked if it still was. We were beat by Chicago in 2008. Funspot really needs to change the "Worlds largest arcade" junk all over the place.

Edit again: It's really wierd, when that Chicago one beat it it was named Largest arcade in the U.S.A. I can't find anything on any bigger ones though. If someone knows about it I'd appreciate some info, it's got me really curious.

*Deep voice* Hahahaha, mortals: As you can tell I'm really bored, I learned I mixed it up. Funspot was named biggest in the world in 2008, then that Chicago one beat it since then. I think that is the biggest, if not I'm nearly positive it's Club Sega. (Sort of ironic.)

Teh internets crushes beneath the weight of this post: I've confirmed it. The Galloping Ghost in Chicago is the largest arcade in the world. You don't need to thank me, just doin muh job. You're welcome.

[Zulastar]

NOOO!!! Toram. If people don't gamble on gems to get all the boss drops I'll have no game to farm them. Then what'll I play when I'm too tired to sit up?

You got it wrong here. Topic is not about RNG drop but AC Scratch (real money) gambling.
The main Idea: If you need concrete Item from the Scratch you'll need to gamble in order to get it - to pay real money not for this item but for just TRIES.
I really hate this Lootbox player-robbing system and I'm glad about the government gonna consider it's illegal thing.

[the_importer_]

You got it wrong here. Topic is not about RNG drop but AC Scratch (real money) gambling.
The main Idea: If you need concrete Item from the Scratch you'll need to gamble in order to get it - to pay real money not for this item but for just TRIES.
I really hate this Lootbox player-robbing system and I'm glad about the government gonna consider it's illegal thing.

It really blows when you have to look at micro transactions/DLC as the lesser of 2 evils :(

[ArcaneTechs]

NOOO!!! Toram. If people don't gamble on gems to get all the boss drops I'll have no game to farm them. Then what'll I play when I'm too tired to sit up?

P.S. That bitch makes me ashamed to be from here, worlds largest arcade is the only thing that makes me wanna stay.

Edit: Never mind, I just checked if it still was. We were beat by Chicago in 2008. Funspot really needs to change the "Worlds largest arcade" junk all over the place.

Edit again: It's really wierd, when that Chicago one beat it it was named Largest arcade in the U.S.A. I can't find anything on any bigger ones though. If someone knows about it I'd appreciate some info, it's got me really curious.

*Deep voice* Hahahaha, mortals: As you can tell I'm really bored, I learned I mixed it up. Funspot was named biggest in the world in 2008, then that Chicago one beat it since then. I think that is the biggest, if not I'm nearly positive it's Club Sega. (Sort of ironic.)

Teh internets crushes beneath the weight of this post: I've confirmed it. The Galloping Ghost in Chicago is the largest arcade in the world. You don't need to thank me, just doin muh job. You're welcome.
what heck did i just read???



I really hate this Lootbox player-robbing system and I'm glad about the government gonna consider it's illegal thing.
keep big brother out of my video games, thanks

[Dark Mits]

Wouldn't Sega counter it by saying "Using the gacha X times gives you a ticket that allows you to purchase any item that you like without RNG."?

[TehCubey]

keep big brother out of my video games, thanks

Government oversight is a good thing where it's proven that without it, the corporations responsible end up harming the people they're squeezing all the cash out of. As is the case with lootboxes - it's gambling, and hurts peoples' lives the same way gambling does.

[BloodPuddles]

Oh no that was basically about loot boxes. Toram uses gachas for cosmetics, and gems. There's an extremely small chance to get one of four gems that boosts all the boss drop rates to 25, 50, 75, and 100%. The whales that want to get super overpowered are the ones funding the game by using all three tries every day. Also like once a year they make a pack that let's you get one of every tier of gem for 30$ so you're guaranteed at least a 25%. It's not game breaking at all though, there's like 30-40 bosses in the game now, so it's not that crazy to get one boss crysta and weapon dye.(I think it's actually good for the game, boss crystas are extremely powerful/rare. So with the whales always buying that junk, the players who farm hard with bad luck can buy them.

Edit: I fort to specify, people with bad luck can buy them in game from the real world purchasers.

[XrosBlader821]

I don't think PSO2 in neccecerily in trouble but this may cause them to severely redesign their monetization system. And yes if I could spend 200 AC and get the Item I want I'd be more willing to spend AC. I don't even want to put my money where my mouth is I already spent hundrets of € on League of Legends back when it was still a fun game.

[Shoterxx]

SEGA will get its money either way, but the problem is the player shop economy. If the scratches produce no by-products, then stock is reduced greatly, which means prices will skyrocket.

Can't they get away with using only Star Gems from now on, and make it so that "You don't spend money on boxes, you just buy in-game currency, which can also be attained by playing!"?

[Zephyrion]

Well let's keep this on track though, regardless of what happens and how wide the ripple effect of this would be, the legal talk and investigations will be very long and thorough, barring a huge scandal or whatever. By the time a law happens and bans lootboxes (provided they even decide to actually ban them or resort to less extreme methods, like fining the most abusive examples of lootboxes) a few years will likely have passed by, and PSO2 will be nearing the end of its lifespan anyway. I can only see affect whatever plan SEGA might or might not have for the franchise in the future.

[XrosBlader821]

SEGA will get its money either way, but the problem is the player shop economy. If the scratches produce no by-products, then stock is reduced greatly, which means prices will skyrocket.

Can't they get away with using only Star Gems from now on, and make it so that "You don't spend money on boxes, you just buy in-game currency, which can also be attained by playing!"?

This whole lootbox investigation was literally put into motion by SW Battlefront 2, before they changed it the Pay to Win Lootbox system was exactly as you described so no, it won't fix anything at all.

[Sayara]

Someone could argue that you dont WIN anything in the AC scratch anyway so you're not really gambiling at all _!!_
also AC has the same arguement as the SG scratch, you buy AC to buy scratch tickets. I dont know how Battlefront use to do it (direct cash to loot or what) but that could fly either way.

I still doubt it'll do anything to PSO2/Sega atm considering if any government intervention happens HERE it wont make a dent of a difference there.

[XrosBlader821]

I still doubt it'll do anything to PSO2/Sega atm considering if any government intervention happens HERE it wont make a dent of a difference there.

True but as Importer already pointed out, Japan is already in favor of regulating Lootboxes and if you're European you know very well that whatever happens in USA, especially in gaming, does have a huge ripple effect on the market. Square Enix removed Mobius Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts Union X and Dissidia Final Fantasy Opera Omnia from Belgium. And Pokemon Duel was removed from the Netherlands, because of a discussion that was started in America over a Star Wars game from last year.

[silo1991]

This whole lootbox investigation was literally put into motion by SW Battlefront 2, before they changed it the Pay to Win Lootbox system was exactly as you described so no, it won't fix anything at all.

SW battlefront 2 its the only real sinner here because , the whole in game progress depends completely of loot boxes , unlike any other game like COD for example, almost everything its just cosmetic , even with the release of new weapons doesnt impact much the game , you can still play and give fight without the new weapons

and sega doesnt get nearly close to the mentioned games .

i believe sega will just sell the AC stuff in packs

[landman]

I wasn't expecting this to reach Japan as well, I'm crossing my fingers, hard, so this changes things, they are predating people's addiction, creating gamblers of young players that spend their weekly income to gamble in Fifa or Forknite, and I don't even care if they continue or not, just declaring them officially gambling is ok for me, pay your taxes and get properly rated like any other gambling product.

[Shoterxx]

SW battlefront 2 its the only real sinner here


Hell no. RNG-based progression, even if just for cosmetics, is still awful in terms of game design. It demotes player effort, since you're equally likely to achieve your goal from start to end game, and it's there simply to buffer either money spent or hours played (which is what a lot of people take into consideration when determining if it was a good purchase or not).

It's also hides the real cost to obtain a specific item. Taking into consideration the old Overwatch drop system, with the current 29 heroes and 2 legendary skins per hero, which, IIRC, had a 7.4% chance per box. Not counting credits, to get a specific legendary skin in the game, you'd have to open on average 1568 crates to get the intended item. This would be a ludicrous price, so credits come in, except for an average of 25 per box (if you're really lucky), still leads to 40 boxes per skin. Except you have to save all the time for event skins which require 120 boxes average each.

[FantasyHeaven]

with gacha dead mobile trash would basically be dead in the water which won't be allowed to happen

[Zulastar]

you're not really gambiling at all _!!_

Well about no gambling:
1 you can get from the scratch either garbage which costs nothing or something you can sell in your shop for more than 30 mil
2 if you want concrete item - you can scratch forever and don't get it in the end
3 add Ability (Strike/PP3)

And if you didn't trade stuff in your shop - you'll never get yourself top affixes or new fashion items.
There's either gambling when you trying to get something to sell from drops, from creating fodders which can be failured too or from the Scratch for real money...


SW battlefront 2 its the only real sinner here

Not only. There are many games with Lootbox system existed even before. Tera or Defiance I played for example.
SW battlefront 2 just took this shit on a new level which gets past people's patience limit.

[BloodPuddles]

with gacha dead mobile trash would basically be dead in the water which won't be allowed to happen

Lol I see you haven't given mobile games a chance. Lots of mobile MMOs completely trash most PC/Console ones.

[ArcaneTechs]

Government oversight is a good thing where it's proven that without it, the corporations responsible end up harming the people they're squeezing all the cash out of. As is the case with lootboxes - it's gambling, and hurts peoples' lives the same way gambling does.
lol just learn moderation bruh, get help. thats why they have all these hotlines, hell if you need to call your bank and put a cap on yourself because you cant learn control then do it. i dont need big bro meddling with my games so they can eventually get a good grip on the gaming industry and tell me what i can/cant play, whats allowed/not allowed to be made by Game Devs. no thanks, seek help if you seriously cant control your gambling addiction for an online game.

stuff that allows you to get lootboxes by just playing is fine, youre not forced to pay and the option to isnt something that has to be removed. you just play like you normally would and get something extra every so often for doing it

[Shoterxx]

lol just learn moderation bruh, get help. thats why they have all these hotlines, hell if you need to call your bank and put a cap on yourself because you cant learn control then do it. i dont need big bro meddling with my games so they can eventually get a good grip on the gaming industry and tell me what i can/cant play, whats allowed/not allowed to be made by Game Devs. no thanks, seek help if you seriously cant control your gambling addiction for an online game.

stuff that allows you to get lootboxes by just playing is fine, youre not forced to pay and the option to isnt something that has to be removed. you just play like you normally would and get something extra every so often for doing it

Government oversight is there because people show no signs of moderation, nor intent on moderating, bruh. Both buyers and devs are in the wrong in the end, and that's why a 3rd-party is involved.

[BloodPuddles]

I don't really see the devs as being in the wrong for this. Unless game progression is directly barred behind loot boxes they aren't making anybody buy them. If someone is dumb enough to actually hurt themselves throwing money at a game they deserve it. I don't even think that's a thing though, I've only ever heard of children spending too much on parents credit cards. Which when that happens same deal, why would you give a child access to all of the money you own? These systems that massively help game companies shouldn't be criticized because people have no common sense.

[Shoterxx]

I don't really see the devs as being in the wrong for this. Unless game progression is directly barred behind loot boxes they aren't making anybody buy them. If someone is dumb enough to actually hurt themselves throwing money at a game they deserve it. I don't even think that's a thing though, I've only ever heard of children spending too much on parents credit cards. Which when that happens same deal, why would you give a child access to all of the money you own? These systems that massively help game companies shouldn't be criticized because people have no common sense.

So predation is A-OK, it's just your fault if you get predated.

Society lessons 101.

[BloodPuddles]

They're not forcing you to do it though. It's like walking in to a store being like "Oh wow, all this stuff is so great. I'm gonna buy all of it." Then blaming the store for taking all your money because you really wanted what they had.

[Shoterxx]

They're not forcing you to do it though. It's like walking in to a store being like "Oh wow, all this stuff is so great. I'm gonna buy all of it." Then blaming the store for taking all your money because you really wanted what they had.

It's still predation, even if through bait.

They know the vulnerability exists, and still exploit it as much as possible for their own (short-term) benefit, with no regards for implications. By no means the buyer is faultless, but the same goes to the seller.

[XrosBlader821]

They're not forcing you to do it though. It's like walking in to a store being like "Oh wow, all this stuff is so great. I'm gonna buy all of it." Then blaming the store for taking all your money because you really wanted what they had.

Bad analogy.
There actually are rules preventing you from buying too much of what an above average household would require. This rule is in place specifically so that during special offers one customer wouldn't show up and buy the entire stock of something and then 50 other customers leave the place unsatisfied because they couldn't make the purchase they were planning to.

But to talk about your attempted example, you still know what you are buying when you say you're gonna buy the entire stock of a shop. Lootboxes rarely give you the thing you want to obtain and they force you to get more money by your brain going "ok one more time I know the next one will give me Innocent Cluster " repeatedly. It's only after the purchase was already made that you realize how much money you wasted and it's even worse if you spend ludicrous amounts of money and still don't get the thing you wanted. And yes PSO2 has those "scratch X amount of times to get a ticket" mechanics but Scratching 30 AC scratches is still 6000 AC just to get [B]one item you want (you can count how much money it is in your region yourself). This becomes even worse when talking about SG Scratches since those Items aren't even tradeable and the primary SG income is tied to a dead quest format, laggy PVP experience and very RNG dependand Casino Minigames. Every other method of SG income (Titles, Magatsu Keys, Campaigns, Arks League) are opportunistic and not constants you can work about.

And to your previous statement that you only ever saw dumb kids being dumb with their parents Credit Cards, here is an example of a grown up man wasting 15k USD on Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer cardpacks (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-10-23-manveer-heir-bioware-mass-effect-ea-monetisation). A Article that also explains why multiplayer was shoehorned into Dragon Age and if you put 2 and 2 together you'll realize why EA Sports titles use lootboxes for their games and why EA tried to shoehorn them into Star Wars Battlefront 2 and Need for Speed Payback, which by the way affected the main gameplay modes, not just Ultimate Team like in EA Sports titles.

Is it dumb? Ofc but that doesn't mean it's okay that people are allowed to take advantage of that and get away with it. Whenever or not somebody deserves it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[Dark Mits]

Lol I see you haven't given mobile games a chance. Lots of mobile MMOs completely trash most PC/Console ones.To incite game wars: Yes, lots of MMOs trash PC/Console ones; the trash ones that exist on PC/Console. No mobile MMO has even 10% of the quality of either WoW or FF14, which are arguably the 2 "best" MMOs currently on the market.

[BloodPuddles]

To incite game wars: Yes, lots of MMOs trash PC/Console ones; the trash ones that exist on PC/Console. No mobile MMO has even 10% of the quality of either WoW or FF14, which are arguably the 2 "best" MMOs currently on the market.

FfXIV very arguably is lol. I was so shocked how simple that game is. The only time you ever need to think at all during gameplay is if you're a healer with really dumb damage, or a tank with a very dumb healer. Some trials/raids have some neat stuff to them, not nearly enough to justify 100's to 1,000's of hours and dollars though. Also the story is stupidly cliche garbage, it's only still a thing because it's got Final Fantasy in the name. Square Enix isn't capable of doing anything good anymore, other than cliches and fan service. (Sorry I can't not trash on FF when it's brought up. They destroyed the series and it upsets me.)

Edit: Game wise lots of mobile MMOs have double the quality of FFXIV. It's literally nothing but pretty pictures and magic explosions, graphics are irrelevant in games.

[Aexorcet]

FfXIV very arguably is lol. I was so shocked how simple that game is. The only time you ever need to think at all during gameplay is if you're a healer with really dumb damage, or a tank with a very dumb healer.

FF14 requires more thought that PSO2 does honestly, so unless you avoid PSO2 as well, I don't see why you would consider it so bad. PSO2 has vastly superior gameplay mechanics, but very bland situations in which to play. FF14 is pretty much the opposite. While most content in FF is low in difficulty, Square also does cater to hardcore players, which Sega has struggled with in the last couple of Episodes.

Regarding loot boxes, they're garbage. I'll be glad to see them gone, but I just wish people would realize that they're terrible and not contribute.

[BloodPuddles]

I almost just got into rant mode again lol. Basically every dungeon you're doing the exact same thing, everybody who plays a class will end up the exact same character, every class within the same role doesn't play very differently. 95-99% of content is filler, literally just interacting with objects, talking to NPCs, or killing a random mob for the dozenth time. I hate it because it's the first FF that is completely unoriginal, with absolutely no new concepts. I haven't played 11 or 12, but I assume they had some original stuff in them. Also actually now that I think of it X-2 didn't have anything original, they didn't want to make that though, it was just free money because fans wouldn't stop begging for it.

Edit: What the hell, that still ended up way bigger than I intended.

[ArcaneTechs]

Government oversight is there because people show no signs of moderation, nor intent on moderating, bruh. Both buyers and devs are in the wrong in the end, and that's why a 3rd-party is involved.
gotta have mom and dad hold youre hand but thats not enough so i guess big bro has do it too. i mean really, plenty of ways of getting the devs to stop their behavior, obviously one of them is dont buy/stop playing their games but i am mean, who i am kidding? people wont do that and continue to feed into this sorta of business.

nothing wrong with lootboxes as long as you can just normally play and unlock them that way, they dont contain p2w items and is completely cosmetic. the option to pay with real money is there but never needed to advance in anyway, heck even throw dailies to unlock a couple as you play.

[SteveCZ]

gotta have mom and dad hold youre hand but thats not enough so i guess big bro has do it too. i mean really, plenty of ways of getting the devs to stop their behavior, obviously one of them is dont buy/stop playing their games but i am mean, who i am kidding? people wont do that and continue to feed into this sorta of business.

nothing wrong with lootboxes as long as you can just normally play and unlock them that way, they dont contain p2w items and is completely cosmetic. the option to pay with real money is there but never needed to advance in anyway, heck even throw dailies to unlock a couple as you play.

Fun fact: Not everyone is strong enough to stop spending cash over those whenever they have cash, and it's proven by how they can rake billions out of it that the government gets involved to realize the reality that probably most their citizens are indeed and always.... uneducated?

[Zephyrion]

gotta have mom and dad hold youre hand but thats not enough so i guess big bro has do it too. i mean really, plenty of ways of getting the devs to stop their behavior, obviously one of them is dont buy/stop playing their games but i am mean, who i am kidding? people wont do that and continue to feed into this sorta of business.

nothing wrong with lootboxes as long as you can just normally play and unlock them that way, they dont contain p2w items and is completely cosmetic. the option to pay with real money is there but never needed to advance in anyway, heck even throw dailies to unlock a couple as you play.

I mean lootboxes are a thorny case, as most of the practices/substances that get regulated. Japan issued a gambling law because gambling addiction was a thing, and ruined the lives of many people... Both the companies that had casinos and similar structures AND the customers who like gambling took it badly, and therefore made pachinko parlors, which is basically a very dirty irl lootbox deal ( pay money, get random prize, can exchange said prize for money...which is basically gambling except in the law, gambling specifically meant "spending money to hope and get money" and therefore a loophole was found and exploited).

Which is the reason why hopefully they go the regulation route, and not the straight ban one, because I know for sure, if they are straight banned, companies will most certainly find workarounds and loopholes to make their bucks with skewed and unfair systems, and players will keep indulging in their bad spending habits/addictions.

[SteveCZ]

Japan did ban virtual gacha before for a shortwhile that the game companies come around with a new solution which is box gacha (you dig until you got everything in the box, but still random on what you get first, just like the real one), but that ban doesn't last long, until today.

I'm skeptical they can even manage to make it happen again.

[BloodPuddles]

I'm a strong disbeliever in non physical addictions. If it's not causing siezures and voices in your head it's just idiocy. The only symptom of a mental addiction is disappointment, which absolutely anyone can handle fine.

Edit: vvv It's in no way forced, people make a conscious willing decision to hurt themselves. No addiction at all physical or mental can make you do anything. I have met people claiming to suffer from a mental addiction, and I try very hard to cut myself off from them. If someone is willing to do something that shitty I want nothing to do with them. They're just scumbags or trying very hard to play the victim.

[Masu]

I'm a strong disbeliever in non physical addictions. *snip*
Probably because you never met anyone suffering from such troubles in your close surrounding...

[Zephyrion]

I'm a strong disbeliever in non physical addictions. If it's not causing siezures and voices in your head it's just idiocy. The only symptom of a mental addiction is disappointment, which absolutely anyone can handle fine.

Edit: vvv It's in no way forced, people make a conscious willing decision to hurt themselves. No addiction at all physical or mental can make you do anything. I have met people claiming to suffer from a mental addiction, and I try very hard to cut myself off from them. If someone is willing to do something that shitty I want nothing to do with them. They're just scumbags or trying very hard to play the victim.

Actually there are two parts in addictions. The "direct" chemical addiction and the "indirect" chemical addiction.

"direct" one is obvious : alcohol, drugs and the likes create a dependency on your body, and when you try to stop you experience withdrawal symptoms. It's the reason why you go to the hospital to get treated...but it's only one part of the issue, which explains how people fall back into alcoholism or drugs. While it gets rid of the "body" addiction, it doesn't get rid of your habits, your "mind" dependency on those, the "pleasure" you experience using these substances, the shots of dopamine your brain gives you for experiencing said pleasure.... All of this is ACTUALLY what lies in the core of most of addictions, and is the "indirect" part of the addiction.

Now if you consider gambling addicts, sports junkies, sex addicts and all the likes, of course they won't experience actual physical withdrawal symptoms, but all the mental ones are there. So all those are still addictions in the sense that addicted people feel they can't live without the thing that gives them pleasure. In this case they are addicted to the "high" state your brain causes by producing things like dopamine or adrenaline, so much so that the worst cases do experience physical drawbacks from not being able to indulge in the activity that gives them that

To end this, I'll say it has been scientifically proven than most addictive behaviours have an innate part to them. It explains why some people can indulge in any potentially addictive activity or substance with blatant excess while never developing any addiction, while others are prone to quickly develop addictions even when exercising caution with said activities/substances, and yes this include all forms of gambling. The ramifications go much, much farther than just "they became addicted because they didn't pay attention/they are stupid/ they have mental illness/insert whatever cliché here.

[NightfallG]

I'm a strong disbeliever in non physical addictions. If it's not causing siezures and voices in your head it's just idiocy. The only symptom of a mental addiction is disappointment, which absolutely anyone can handle fine.

Edit: vvv It's in no way forced, people make a conscious willing decision to hurt themselves. No addiction at all physical or mental can make you do anything. I have met people claiming to suffer from a mental addiction, and I try very hard to cut myself off from them. If someone is willing to do something that shitty I want nothing to do with them. They're just scumbags or trying very hard to play the victim.

the reason why you don't believe in gambling addiction is because you have it. your weird defense of multiple layers of RNG gating in other threads is proof in addition to these goofy semi-libertarian screeds here.

[BloodPuddles]

Actually no guy, I play literally a hundred different games, most of which have absolutely no RNG. So when I play a loot based game, I want to experience that. Also that was a very bad assumption, since getting a one in a million crazy sweet drop is completely different than risking something for a fair chance at winning more. I don't believe in gambling addiction because it's not a thing. Saying otherwise you're basically saying kleptos, liars, pedos, and abusive assholes aren't scumbags, but people suffering who should get everyones pity. If you'd ever had any experience with what actual addiction is, you would not put a craving for something on nearly the same level, because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN CONTROL ANYBODIES ACTIONS. Mental addiction is a scapegoat for a majority of the world to be pieces of shit.

[Dark Mits]

Mental addiction is a scapegoat for a majority of the world to be pieces of shit.I do not have evidence right now because I am too lazy to google, but I am near certain that there have been cases of people who entirely neglected personal health/hygiene and obligations only and only to continue playing video games. This is a type of mental addiction.

[BloodPuddles]

Actually no guy, I play literally a hundred different games, most of which have absolutely no RNG. So when I play a loot based game, I want to experience that. Also that was a very bad assumption, since getting a one in a million crazy sweet drop is completely different than risking something for a fair chance at winning more. I don't believe in gambling addiction because it's not a thing. Saying otherwise you're basically saying kleptos, liars, pedos, and abusive assholes aren't scumbags, but people suffering who should get everyones pity. If you'd ever had any experience with what actual addiction is, you would not put a craving for something on nearly the same level, because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN CONTROL ANYBODIES ACTIONS. Mental addiction is a scapegoat for a majority of the world to be pieces of shit.

Edit: vvv That kinda fits with what I said. I'm sure they didn't become vegetables from playing, they had to have understood what was happening around them. If they were capable of processing speech, and thinking, then that was 100% their choice to do those things. I've played games nonstop since infancy, and I'm only moderately gross, and get all my junk done.

Edit again: Damnit, switch that vvv to a ^^^. I accidentally hit reply.

[Zulastar]

you dig until you got everything in the box, but still random on what you get first, just like the real one

This one sounds fair. I wish we have something similar here in scratches. I tired of getting multiple copies of shit I already have, don't need or can't use.

I spent more than 15000 SG on this scratch already and still need 17 items from it... And no trace of Elegant wings, Beldia Ribbon B, Zelsius Neck A and Zelsius Sun [Ba] I want most. 3 Days left...

[XrosBlader821]

they had to have understood what was happening around them. If they were capable of processing speech, and thinking, then that was 100% their choice to do those things.
That's an assumption based on nothing.


I've played games nonstop since infancy, and I'm only moderately gross, and get all my junk done.
"I'm not addicted to the point of destroying my own life so nobody else can be addicted like that either" isn't a argument.


This one sounds fair. I wish we have something similar here in scratches. I tired of getting multiple copies of shit I already have, don't need or can't use.

I spent more than 15000 SG on this scratch already and still need 17 items from it... And no trace of Elegant wings, Beldia Ribbon B, Zelsius Neck A and Zelsius Sun [Ba] I want most. 3 Days left...

You think that sounds fair but it really isn't. Games that use that system usually have 10,000 1* reawards, 5,000 2* rewards, 2,500 3* rewards 1000 4* rewards and maybe 100 5* rewards if you're lucky. And very rarely are any of these 1~4* upgradeable into 5*. Yes the more shit you get the higher the changes are that you get something good but at this point you're basically mining for diamonds on a waste disposal site.

[the_importer_]

It's true that at the end of the day, even having regular rare drops is in it's own way, a form of gambling. MMOs are designed to make you play as long as possible because the more you play, the more chances that you'll spend money, either on the old model like WoW where you pay for a monthly subscription or in the modern model where you pay for micro transactions.

In my particular case, while I don't care much about scratch tickets (I rarely keep what I win, I just use my wins to make quick cash), I did care about random drops in 2 occasions: back when everyone and their dog wanted a Saki Set and more recently, getting an EPD. I did waste AC (AKA real world money) in order to buy 300% drop boosters, with of course no end results because fuck RNG. I never got an EPD and only got my full Saiki set back when 11★ unit tickets got to be a thing.

I'm currently playing PS Nova on my Vita, a game that uses PSO2 as a base, but being offline, almost everything is handed to you by just playing the game. Playing all of the quests in all difficulties and doing every client orders basically unlocks everything: PA and Techs, weapons, shield, etc.

So ya, every MMO is in a way, is built around a gambling system, that's how they make money. That being said, things like loot boxes or scratch tickets in the case of PSO2 use gambling at it's purest and more obvious form, which is: spend X amount of cash to try to win a great prize, if you fail, then you can try again, and again, and again.

[BloodPuddles]

That wasn't an assumption, it was a blatant fact, people are aware of things that happen around them. And also I was wrong lol, after all this I looked more into stuff about addiction. Addiction is specifically when people repeatedly do bad things that bring them joy. I thought an addiction and dependency were the same thing. My point still stands though, these people are stupid and deserve whatever bad comes of what they do. This will be my last post about this, talking to you people in "Addiction is a disease" mode is gonna give me an aneurysm. I also just got a strong urge to start pathologically beating my wife and kids, so I should probably get to doing that. (Please feel bad for me while it happens, and thanks, I know you will.)
P.S. I know I'll be getting shit for this, but it was too tempting.

[SteveCZ]

Anyway just addition to my previous post (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?238221-PSO2-and-other-Games-with-Gatcha-Prizes-in-Japan-Could-be-in-Trouble&p=3456420&viewfull=1#post3456420),

Just a source related to compu gacha ban in Japan in 2012: https://www.adweek.com/digital/japan-officially-declares-lucractive-kompu-gacha-practice-illegal-in-social-games/.

Also sorry I also made a mistake on last post "... but that ban doesn't last long, until today ..." Actually, these companies just get their way over it (based on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game#Criticism_and_controversy)). How they get their way I'm not sure, but that includes, but not limited to, showing the drop rate publicly, giving an actual reward after drawing X number of random reward, that box gacha model, etc.

[XrosBlader821]

My point still stands though,

You still haven't made a point tho. You used non-arguments, assumptions that how you operate automatically applies to everyone else and dismissed science by analogies that make no sense.

[the_importer_]

How they get their way I'm not sure, but that includes, but not limited to, showing the drop rate publicly, giving an actual reward after drawing X number of random reward, that box gacha model, etc.

That last one could explain why you get prizes for scratching an X amount of time including a ticket that let's you choose what you want out of those random things you were trying to get. So perhaps PSO2 is not in any sort of trouble after since one could argue that the item you wanted was 1200 yen, but you could get it cheaper if you got it in your first 5 tries. Mind you, that law was passed in 2012 and PSO2's bonus items are fairly recent if I'm not mistaken, so why the hell did SEGA wait so long?

[XrosBlader821]

That last one could explain why you get prizes for scratching an X amount of time including a ticket that let's you choose what you want out of those random things you were trying to get. So perhaps PSO2 is not in any sort of trouble after since one could argue that the item you wanted was 1200 yen, but you could get it cheaper if you got it in your first 5 tries. Mind you, that law was passed in 2012 and PSO2's bonus items are fairly recent if I'm not mistaken, so why the hell did SEGA wait so long?

Maybe its a safety measure in case displaying chance numbers isn't enough anymore.

Sega always displays those on their scratch website.

https://i.imgur.com/55cAbF0.png

[NightfallG]

Actually no guy, I play literally a hundred different games, most of which have absolutely no RNG. So when I play a loot based game, I want to experience that. Also that was a very bad assumption, since getting a one in a million crazy sweet drop is completely different than risking something for a fair chance at winning more. I don't believe in gambling addiction because it's not a thing. Saying otherwise you're basically saying kleptos, liars, pedos, and abusive assholes aren't scumbags, but people suffering who should get everyones pity. If you'd ever had any experience with what actual addiction is, you would not put a craving for something on nearly the same level, because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN CONTROL ANYBODIES ACTIONS. Mental addiction is a scapegoat for a majority of the world to be pieces of shit.

see, that thing you just did where you try to say "haha you think gambling addiction is real so pedos must be ok" is the kind of shit addicts say. get help dude.

for anyone else looking, gambling is an entire industry unto itself with teams upon teams of shrinks working to exploit the fuck out of people who are vulnerable for one reason or another to FOMO (fear-of-missing-out) based anxiety or an overbelief of superstition and luck. loot boxes/gacha are the bastard child of this and video game companies have the same sort of marketing teams looking to exploit the same mechanisms through gacha/loot boxes/rng gating/skinner box mechanics etc for various reasons, all profit related.

[BloodPuddles]

Alright I guess I lied about no more posting about this. (Sort of, this is kind of different.) But please tell me, how am I an addict? I'm curious how much money I've lost due to it, or how much I've fucked up my life now, because I wasn't aware of these things. You're trying to sound smart, but all you can do to counter argue is call me names. I think you are actually just a really shitty person, doing shitty things, hiding behind the actual superstition of a mental addiction. Which is what it is, you believe that mild depression and anxiety from losing something you enjoy a lot, will create some magic physical entity that will force you to do shitty things to get what you want. Because no chemical change in your brain, other than one that begins to make it shut down, can make anybody do anything, it's a fact.

[Ryna]

I'm locking this up since things are starting to get personal.