How do you feel about HuSu?

[mother clusterfck]

I kinda feel like trying it out some time for serious tanking but not sure if it's good enough to use in an expert mpa.
Su gives what, ~32% unconditional damage boost without Point Assist and that's another 20+% iirc though only on select targets.
Sounds decent enough when I can do up to 500k with Rising Edge on HuFi but I kinda still have my doubts.

Wondering if people consider this a feasible choice for expert or if it's too weak.

[final_attack]

Would depends on EQ and each person tho.
Though it's rare to find one, I'm cool with it on 1 boss raid-type EQ.

Or your usual guruguru thing.

And for new players (that might get carried to expert by friend) ..... it's better than having too many random deaths.
Sega kinda push new players to end-game very quick, so, yea, being able to tank, not die, and learn things ... I'm ok with it.

Though I have to say, I think I'm quite lenient(?) on things ... so ..... ^^;
Oh, I usually going with pug, random block / auto fill thing when doing things like LQ / EQ.

[TehCubey]

not sure if it's good enough to use in an expert mpa.

It's not.

[NightfallG]

my advice would be to test your damage on, say, downed Bal Rodos with your Hu/Fi and then try again with your Hu/Su experiment. do this a few times, note down the numbers, and compare. just dropping into an MPA with an unknown is a little rude imo.

[Lostbob117]

It's not worth using over HuFi.

Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't go Hu/Su, just know that you'll be doing less than you could be doing with Hu/Fi while having to deal with a huge pain (Point Assist). So play it if you REALLY want to.

[echofaith]

I liked it a lot back then when it was new for guruguru maps, mostly because I hated Fi stances for a slow class like Hunter. But since they revamped Fi stances to do decent damage even in the wrong spot, husu kinda lost its main appeal though it does have some uses.

Damage wise, Taja+brave is 77% more damage while Su inconditionals + point assist/support fire is 67%(75% if you hit element weakness), so if you can deal with point assist, you could do more dps with a single PA rotation instead of alternating(rising edge is a good example of this). Su is also slightly more tanky because of the extra defenses/dex/HP and HP restore(this one comes as a ring too), along with access to techs, so thats a plus I guess.

That being said, both will work in tryhard MPAs, but husu will take extra work to make it worth it. Though in my personal opinion, Hunter in general already needs extra work compared to other classes to work in tryhard content.

[ArcaneTechs]

this thread was made specially to bait me and it worked, bravo!


It's not worth using over HuFi.

Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't go Hu/Su, just know that you'll be doing less than you could be doing with Hu/Fi while having to deal with a huge pain (Point Assist).
250% this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

[mother clusterfck]

Not baiting anyone lol.
I wouldn't replace HuFi with it, I'd just use it occasionally on easy eqs. For example with most seasonals you get 4 runs with anywhere between 4-6 minutes to start the 4th and it unless you get lucky with a really good mpa you wont get 5 and unless you get unlucky with a bad mpa you won't get only 3, so my damage being a bit lower (though slightly mitigated by less healing) would not really make a difference in most cases.

But yeah, I'll check the damage and quirks solo before I'll take it anywhere else.

PS: if you use wise stance and are on the wrong side you only get 30% damage boost and Point is kinda comparable to Taja (e.g. the first pa of a combo won't get any taja benefits.
Of course it's not as good as subbing fi but it's not a huge difference either.

[Agastya]

roughly the same mods as hu/br with infinitely more bulk. if you're already running hu/br just make the switch, if you're using hu/fi you'll see a drop in damage but hu/su isn't about doing top damage. it's about bulk.

you will tank EVERYTHING. nothing poses a threat to the sheer level of bulk a hu/su can have. my equipment isn't even that optimized and buffed i can pull in 32xx s-def with 29xx+ for r/t-def still. you will take 300 damage from an attack that will paste somebody for 3000+.

and i mean EVERYTHING.
https://i.imgur.com/3WKWr65.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OqQElSg.jpg

[FantasyHeaven]

Play whatever you want, even if you're doing no damage the rest will carry and there's nothing they can do about it other than cry. Boo hoo precious 1 minute of their important lives wasted tops. Making different builds used to be the only interesting part about this game because a) there is no endgame and b) there is not challenge. Too bad sega systematically removed all those interesting builds.

[ArcaneTechs]

Play whatever you want, even if you're doing no damage the rest will carry and there's nothing they can do about it other than cry. Boo hoo precious 1 minute of their important lives wasted tops. Making different builds used to be the only interesting part about this game because a) there is no endgame and b) there is not challenge. Too bad sega systematically removed all those interesting builds.
this is the real bait right here

[mother clusterfck]

^^Agreed.
PS: not running HuBr anymore now that fi stances give 30/35% boost from the wrong side.

[Zulastar]

^^Agreed.
PS: not running HuBr anymore now that fi stances give 30/35% boost from the wrong side.

I don't run Hu at all, but when I leveled it I found HuBr sword AoE normals pretty heavy with Sacrifice Bite on and S4: Calming Intent

[midend]

It's worse than Hu/Fi because specifically Hunter weapons synergize very well with TAJA and PP slayer. Their PAs almost exclusively require you to have a rotation instead of spamming one only. Imagine playing partizan without TAJA holy shit good luck man.

e.g.

Sword: break(approach)->rising->break(reposition if boss moves)


Partizan: Volg->buster->bander->buster (taja huge volg dmg with pp reduction for combo


Lance: adapt(approach)->heavenfall->adapt(reposition)

[Flaoc]

Play whatever you want, even if you're doing no damage the rest will carry and there's nothing they can do about it other than cry. Boo hoo precious 1 minute of their important lives wasted tops. Making different builds used to be the only interesting part about this game because a) there is no endgame and b) there is not challenge. Too bad sega systematically removed all those interesting builds.

https://cdn.frankerfacez.com/emoticon/259046/2

[milranduil]

Play whatever you want, even if you're doing no damage the rest will carry and there's nothing they can do about it other than cry. Boo hoo precious 1 minute of their important lives wasted tops. Making different builds used to be the only interesting part about this game because a) there is no endgame and b) there is not challenge. Too bad sega systematically removed all those interesting builds.

i would say go try score attacking endless quest, but you would just move the goal post and say "but that's boring" rather than admitting it's challenging or endgame.

[Dark Mits]

Play whatever you want, even if you're doing no damage the rest will carry and there's nothing they can do about it other than cry. Boo hoo precious 1 minute of their important lives wasted tops. Making different builds used to be the only interesting part about this game because a) there is no endgame and b) there is not challenge. Too bad sega systematically removed all those interesting builds.How did Sega remove interesting builds when they have literally added more skill points to every class with level ups without removing skills from the trees? You have more possible builds with 104/104 than 99/99, which is more builds than 94/94, which is more builds than 89/89...

Now if your argument is that there are less builds that are close to the optimal, that's an entirely different discussion. At some point you have to decide if you are going to play for your own entertainment, or for the damage meters.

[ArcaneTechs]

How did Sega remove interesting builds when they have literally added more skill points to every class with level ups without removing skills from the trees? You have more possible builds with 104/104 than 99/99, which is more builds than 94/94, which is more builds than 89/89...

Now if your argument is that there are less builds that are close to the optimal, that's an entirely different discussion. At some point you have to decide if you are going to play for your own entertainment, or for the damage meters.

Stop taking his post so serious

[ZerotakerZX]

Whining. Who would have guessed?

[ralf542]

you will take 300 damage from an attack that will paste somebody for 3000+.

You say that 200 Defense that you get from Su will reduce the damage by at least 90%? lmao
I would rather go Guard Stance Hu/Fi with the HP Restorate ring, Ceres Zara weapons and 4000-5000HP. Now that's a tank and not a wannabe Hu/Su tank with a few extra pints in def.

Oh yeah, you say tank EVERYTHING. Good luck with Omega Hunar+floor in XQ.

[Dark Mits]

You say that 200 Defense that you get from Su will reduce the damage by at least 90%? lmao
I would rather go Guard Stance Hu/Fi with the HP Restorate ring, Ceres Zara weapons and 4000-5000HP. Now that's a tank and not a wannabe Hu/Su tank with a few extra pints in def.

Oh yeah, you say tank EVERYTHING. Good luck with Omega Hunar+floor in XQ.Massive Hunter with maxxed Guard Stance. That's 75% damage resistance with 250 extra S-DEF compared to Fury Stance. It reduces a 3000 hit to less than 700.

[Ransu]

You say that 200 Defense that you get from Su will reduce the damage by at least 90%? lmao
I would rather go Guard Stance Hu/Fi with the HP Restorate ring, Ceres Zara weapons and 4000-5000HP. Now that's a tank and not a wannabe Hu/Su tank with a few extra pints in def.

Oh yeah, you say tank EVERYTHING. Good luck with Omega Hunar+floor in XQ.

To be fair you can just equip an Elder Pain Omega and laugh at Omega Hunar.

[milranduil]

Massive Hunter with maxxed Guard Stance. That's 75% damage resistance with 250 extra S-DEF compared to Fury Stance. It reduces a 3000 hit to less than 700.

damage resist does not work like that. they stack multiplicatively meaning 1 - .75*.8*.9*.8*.75 = .676 or 67.6% resist for striking/ranged dmg even with maxed flash guards.

[Tunga]

Play whatever you want, even if you're doing no damage the rest will carry and there's nothing they can do about it other than cry. Boo hoo precious 1 minute of their important lives wasted tops. Making different builds used to be the only interesting part about this game because a) there is no endgame and b) there is not challenge. Too bad sega systematically removed all those interesting builds.

I know this is an exaggeration, but the obsession over small amount of damage that will make no difference in the end to 99% of the content in this game was just hilarious. Carry on.

[Dark Mits]

damage resist does not work like that. they stack multiplicatively meaning 1 - .75*.8*.9*.8*.75 = .676 or 67.6% resist for striking/ranged dmg even with maxed flash guards....somehow I caclulated an extra 25% resist from nowhere, thank you for the correction.

[ralf542]

Massive Hunter with maxxed Guard Stance. That's 75% damage resistance with 250 extra S-DEF compared to Fury Stance. It reduces a 3000 hit to less than 700.

Switching from Guard Stance Hu/Fi to Hu/Su wont reduce damage taken by 90% because it gives bulk.

[otakun]

Is there even a 14* that supports a guard stance build?

[Loveless62]

Is there even a 14* that supports a guard stance build?
Akatsuki? Elder Pain Omega? Atlus (14* version) with S1-S4 tailored for Guard Stance support?

It depends on what you mean by "supporting a guard stance build", though. I am not 100% sure what that means.

[otakun]

Akatsuki? Elder Pain Omega? Atlus (14* version) with S1-S4 tailored for Guard Stance support?

It depends on what you mean by "supporting a guard stance build", though. I am not 100% sure what that means.

Well, considering you are even questioning what that means, the answer is no. lol

[Loveless62]

Well, considering you are even questioning what that means, the answer is no. lol
Then what does it mean?

[otakun]

Then what does it mean?

It would mean a weapon that supports a skill or skills in the guard stance tree. Having a weapon that does the same in either stance doesn't make it for the build even if it would be useful in guard stance. The only weapon I know off the top of my head that is actual guard stance support is Nox Sword NT even though its pretty mediocre even when it was new.

[milranduil]

It would mean a weapon that supports a skill or skills in the guard stance tree. Having a weapon that does the same in either stance doesn't make it for the build even if it would be useful in guard stance. The only weapon I know off the top of my head that is actual guard stance support is Nox Sword NT even though its pretty mediocre even when it was new.

i think the point loveless was making is that 14-15* wep aren't stance focused anymore (and haven't been for a while), so it's kind of a moot question to begin with.

[Lostbob117]

You don't need a specific weapon to use Guard Stance anyways, it's really good with any weapon. Just depends on what content you're doing. Most of Ep5 Guard Stance is good in. Even better come UH if they make enemies more aggressive.

[Agastya]

Oh yeah, you say tank EVERYTHING. Good luck with Omega Hunar+floor in XQ.

https://i.imgur.com/apu1df7.jpg

the only scary thing in xq3 is heal reduction during deus and getting hit by too many thorns at the same time, all avoidable with charge parrying.


also if you REALLY want a guard stance weapon, the aratron phemut partisan gives an extra ~180 to defenses during guard stance. it's a funny last resort stick if you absolutely want to tank something but the damage loss from going back down to a 13* in this day and age makes it even more niche than ultimate amduskia boss weapons giving the 20% cut.

[Loveless62]

I was trying to figure out what stats Otakun considered to be supportive to Guard Stance users, like:

Damage
Damage reduction
PP recovery/cost reduction
HP recovery
????

Weapons with S-ability slots can support any of these. Now that I've thought about it more though, I realized that Guard Stance can be used for multiple purposes, like DPS (Hu main class) and tankiness, so generalizing how the stats should be prioritized is not straight-forward.

I was hoping Otakun did not mean "potentials/abilities that Guard Stance benefits from exclusively", since that is a pretty disturbing fetish. Unfortunately, this appears to be the case :p. Similar to what I was saying above, though, you can take a 14* with S-ability slots (like Lumiere or the PSO2es weapon Alle Tieramina), and build a weapon with similar benefits to any of the Guard Stance potentials. You just can't make it exclusive to Guard Stance, but, seriously, why would you care?

Because no one asked, here are the potentials that SWiki lists as requiring Guard Stance:

Hard-line Training Team - +18% damage, +150 S-DEF - 12* Nox Kvelle
Strong Team - +12% damage, +180 S-DEF - 13* Grandia
Defensive Training Team - +15% damage, +50 S-DEF - lots of weapons between 8 and 11 stars in rarity have this.

[otakun]

Well, I can give you guys a more simple way of understanding what I am meaning ...

Is there a wep that makes you want to use guard stance over fury? There is no weapon that does this which is what I was getting at. It's like, cool, you can take a hit, well, this game is geared for you to not even be hit. Lastly, the fact someone even said guard stance can be used for DPS ... my brain died a little.

[Ransu]

Well, I can give you guys a more simple way of understanding what I am meaning ...

Is there a wep that makes you want to use guard stance over fury? There is no weapon that does this which is what I was getting at. It's like, cool, you can take a hit, well, this game is geared for you to not even be hit. Lastly, the fact someone even said guard stance can be used for DPS ... my brain died a little.

I hope that was bait because Guard Stance edges out slightly over Fury Stance in terms of damage dealt it just lacks in upkeep and needs a duration buff on GSA.

[Loveless62]

Lastly, the fact someone even said guard stance can be used for DPS ... my brain died a little.
Because of Guard Stance Advance, Guard Stance has superior damage to Fury Stance, but only when you can reliably get Just Guards (or guards on Tech Charge Parry). Since you usually can get Just Guards against large bosses, Guard Stance is the superior stance in Boss MPAs (or in solo quests), but, for mobbing situations, Guard Stance lags behind Fury since the mobs may not get a chance to attack you.

Now, why would Guard Stance get all of its survivability as well as superior DPS against bosses? Only Sega knows. Usually trade-offs are a thing in games.

[milranduil]

Well, I can give you guys a more simple way of understanding what I am meaning ...

Is there a wep that makes you want to use guard stance over fury? There is no weapon that does this which is what I was getting at. It's like, cool, you can take a hit, well, this game is geared for you to not even be hit. Lastly, the fact someone even said guard stance can be used for DPS ... my brain died a little.

this just shows your ignorance of the tree. GSA is flat 50% which is better than fury stance assuming you upkeep (which is easy in a lot of content, particularly when soloing).

also if people REALLY want to test their tank build, 4th/5th lap endless interval stages are as tough as it gets. dio hunar explosion hits for 8k+ through techer buffs, deus hits much harder than xq3, ardem laser for 10k+, etc.

[ArcaneTechs]

Well, I can give you guys a more simple way of understanding what I am meaning ...

Is there a wep that makes you want to use guard stance over fury? There is no weapon that does this which is what I was getting at. It's like, cool, you can take a hit, well, this game is geared for you to not even be hit. Lastly, the fact someone even said guard stance can be used for DPS ... my brain died a little.
HU is my least played class and even I could have told you that Guard Stance outdoes Fury Stance with upkeep

[Dark Mits]

Now, why would Guard Stance get all of its survivability as well as superior DPS against bosses? Only Sega knows. Usually trade-offs are a thing in games.I think the trade off is exactly what all of you mentioned; it requires Just Guard to be more effective (damage dealing wise) over Fury Stance. So if a player can't Just Guard reliably or plays in content where enemies don't get to hit the player (which is almost literally 99% of the content), their performance drops.

The inverse situation would be for Fury Stance to be absolutely better in every case for dpsing, in which case why have Guard Stance at all, when you can enjoy near-100% invulnerability anyway with clever dodging and positioning as Fury Stance.

I think Sega has abandoned the notion of having trade-offs because they have already given players extremely powerful tools to protect themselves, to the point of absurdiness. PSO2 is the only game so far I know where getting hit by an enemy, or being afflicted with a status effect is a massive boost to the player, to the point where players delibirately want to get hit/afflicted.

[midend]

Guard stance is only useful for minmaxing. It is preferred that a separate tree be utilized if the player really wishes to use it. Otherwise the player will be deadweight in quests where mobs take forever to execute an attack, or if there are huge delays in between spawns. Fury will work for 99% of the hunter base

[ArcaneTechs]

Guard stance is only useful for minmaxing. It is preferred that a separate tree be utilized if the player really wishes to use it. Otherwise the player will be deadweight in quests where mobs take forever to execute an attack, or if there are huge delays in between spawns. Fury will work for 99% of the hunter base

>Guard Stance
>useful for only minmaxing

Well fellow MMO tank players you no longer exist in this game sorry

[Dark Mits]

>Guard Stance
>useful for only minmaxing

Well fellow MMO tank players you no longer exist in this game sorrySame as healers, buffers, debuffers, crowd controllers...

[silo1991]

Same as healers, buffers, debuffers, crowd controllers...

are you kidding , healers are still good , buffers and debuffers are irrelevant now but not useless , CC are useless definily in boss raids

[Loveless62]

Guard stance is only useful for minmaxing. It is preferred that a separate tree be utilized if the player really wishes to use it. Otherwise the player will be deadweight in quests where mobs take forever to execute an attack, or if there are huge delays in between spawns. Fury will work for 99% of the hunter base
I didn't consider the stances from the perspective of a player who would only have one Hu tree to work with. If that were the case for me, I would definitely pick Fury Stance, as Guard Stance's DPS superiority is only situational.


>Guard Stance
>useful for only minmaxing

Well fellow MMO tank players you no longer exist in this game sorry
As a side note, it surprises me how many players who play tanky seem to have never heard of evasion tanking. :wacko:

[Tunga]

>Guard Stance
>useful for only minmaxing

Well fellow MMO tank players you no longer exist in this game sorry

When did they exist?

[ArcaneTechs]

Same as healers, buffers, debuffers, crowd controllers...

TE exists but because of the state of the game, Jellen, Zalure, Zoldial/Zoldeel, Retier, Dizas and Rentis dont exist to at least add more to TEs arsenal. Which kinda sucks. Plus youre playing support and you yourself kinda want to be tanky.

Crowd controllers lol basically every class does this already


I didn't consider the stances from the perspective of a player who would only have one Hu tree to work with. If that were the case for me, I would definitely pick Fury Stance, as Guard Stance's DPS superiority is only situational.

As a side note, it surprises me how many players who play tanky seem to have never heard of evasion tanking. :wacko:
I still think people refuse to learn to evade/counter and would rather block if they can iunno


When did they exist?

I know youre joking but theyve always existed, albeit a very small percentage of players

[quickasker]

Guard stance isn't that bad;
https://i.imgur.com/cQmkcpQ.png

[Reilet]

Jellen

Basilis wand :wacko: