Phantom vs Hero

[fullmetal24]

Which is better??

[[Ayumi]]

I personally don't like Phantom at all.

[MightyHarken]

Not a fan of Phantom. Ranger is better in every way possible, I only wish we could get a mix between ranger and phantom.

[Tymek]

Not a fan of Phantom. Ranger is better in every way possible, I only wish we could get a mix between ranger and phantom.

Ra/Ph

[ArcaneTechs]

play your favorite and get good with it, dont hop a bandwagon just because everyone else is doing it

[XrosBlader821]

Honestly, Ph makes Hero look like a standard class for me.
Then again, I haven't played with the recent buffs yet so maybe Hero became much cooler overnight.

[Azure Falcon]

Way too early for anyone to know. I can say that I really don't like how the Rifle plays and its damage output seems poor compared to the other two because of how slow and awkward the PAs are. Rod is ridiculously good for mobbing, Katana feels awkward so I don't really understand it yet, but I could see that it'd be good for bosses.

[Shoterxx]

I like Katana and Rod, but don't know about DPS. I'm still going to try and make a Bo/Ph build out of it though.

Like always, I never liked the gameplay aspect of ranged weapons in PSO2, and I don't think I'm going to start now.

[Gwyndolin]

Phantom just feels so awkward to me where as Hero is just more intuitive to play. I personally will continue to play Hero until I come to understand/enjoy Phantom.

[SteveCZ]

One clue: try dodging.

[Dark Priest]

Not a fan of Phantom. Ranger is better in every way possible, I only wish we could get a mix between ranger and phantom.

I don't get these types of responses, it's not ranger, why would you compare it to it, because it uses a rifle? I don't think sega was looking to replace a rifle using job, more add one to it's list. which is why they use the rifle in a different way.

WIth that aside, i'm fine with it, it's pretty squishy but they seem to have high I-Frames to compensate. I still enjoy force above all else but it's a good side class.

but expect balance adjustments, because they do seem to do quite a bit of damage, but maybe wait till ultra hard to properly judge.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

phatom is great for me. I always liked close range classes but most of them are usually so slow in terms that its basically a turn off.
Phantom fixed that for me.
One question though, how to dodge at such high speed?

[Meteor Weapon]

Practice more, its just day two. Rome doesnt get built in a single day, neither does mastering Phantom.

[ArcaneTechs]

Practice more, its just day two. Rome doesnt get built in a single day, neither does mastering Phantom.

It hasnt even been a full 24hrs since the class has been out wtf

[Shear]

It hasnt even been a full 24hrs since the class has been out wtf
I'm pretty sure that's his point, it's barely out so saying it's better or worse than other classes before we properly used it a while is premature.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

I'm pretty sure that's his point, it's barely out so saying it's better or worse than other classes before we properly used it a while is premature.

then why was the topic created in the first place. I smell a troll or someone who makes off this. lol
(usually no one admits it , I wonder why )

someonme delete this topic or archive it for later lol

[BlankM]

Just based off damage ive been seeing, the class seems a bit gimmicky and underwhelming. But its fun for sure, specially as a teching class. Would love to be proven wrong.

[Shear]

I do quite love the Ghost thing when we charge a tech, I can't count the times some stupid mob punched me out of my charge so it feels like a godsend. Personally I like Rifle best, not a fan of the Katana but currently I'm still trying everything out. I do like that with the SHIFT action we can get some proper Combo's going with Katana.
I still haven't figured out how to properly use the Mark though.

[Suirano]

Phantom does seem a bit more gimmicky than Hero. Definitely not as simple but that isn't a bad thing. It feels really fun and I do wonder its capability a week or so after people mess with it and figure it out. I am glad it feels balanced ( at least it seems that way ) and doesn't make other classes feel irrelevant.

This video was posted in a server I am in and I at least see that Rod Phantom can do some insane stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=PDZc9xeBzNw

[SteveCZ]

... I at least see that Rod Phantom can do some insane stuff.

Yeah Rod really get the most of everything for Phantom. Katana is fun but so far I am yet to get faster boss kill with it than using Rod. What I feel so far is Katana has tons of timing shenanigans to look cool but somehow the dps aren't as practical as Rod. Might be just me, it's still new anyway.

[Shear]

... reading all this and seeing the Video tells me I need to learn how to Phantom Rod :/ Good thing I made a 14* Rod at least.

[ArcaneTechs]

I'm pretty sure that's his point, it's barely out so saying it's better or worse than other classes before we properly used it a while is premature.

obvious


then why was the topic created in the first place. I smell a troll or someone who makes off this. lol
(usually no one admits it , I wonder why )

someonme delete this topic or archive it for later lol

just stop please

[Azure Falcon]

Phantom does seem a bit more gimmicky than Hero. Definitely not as simple but that isn't a bad thing. It feels really fun and I do wonder its capability a week or so after people mess with it and figure it out. I am glad it feels balanced ( at least it seems that way ) and doesn't make other classes feel irrelevant.

This video was posted in a server I am in and I at least see that Rod Phantom can do some insane stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=PDZc9xeBzNw

Good to see that video, I had a feeling from messing around with Rod last night that if quick charge worked out favourably (couldn't tell if it was a 30% reduction, or if your consumption is 30% of normal, so I ignored it for now) in terms of reducing PP consumption (since PP regen feels slow on Phantom) then you'd be able to pull off some crazy stuff mixing together techs and Rod actions. Seeing that though really does make me think that Katana is simply outclassed.

[oratank]

damn is this the end of force lol

[Shear]

damn is this the end of force lol

NO! it's the rebirth of Force into the GLORIOUS PHANTOM!

I'm joking, I don't play force and have no Idea how it compares actually.

[KaizoKage]

Phantom does seem a bit more gimmicky than Hero. Definitely not as simple but that isn't a bad thing. It feels really fun and I do wonder its capability a week or so after people mess with it and figure it out. I am glad it feels balanced ( at least it seems that way ) and doesn't make other classes feel irrelevant.

This video was posted in a server I am in and I at least see that Rod Phantom can do some insane stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=PDZc9xeBzNw

Welp, Im always a melee type player in different MMOs, so trying to do something like the video is out of my league. Hoping for some Katana or Rifle gameplay soon

[Mr3chi]

with 2 phton reductions, ph rod is hilarious, just stay close enough, spam like crazy to let rod atk hit and hope for random dodges then you have unlimited pp. that's why phton reduction price went mad now. from 200k to 4m in a day :rant:

[Effarion]

Phantom does seem a bit more gimmicky than Hero. Definitely not as simple but that isn't a bad thing. It feels really fun and I do wonder its capability a week or so after people mess with it and figure it out. I am glad it feels balanced ( at least it seems that way ) and doesn't make other classes feel irrelevant.

This video was posted in a server I am in and I at least see that Rod Phantom can do some insane stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=PDZc9xeBzNw

Anyone know which Gigrants recipe that was? I can't tell if its Concentrated or Brilliant.

EDIT: So I'm dumb, it was Ilgrants, nevermind.

[Mr3chi]

Anyone know which Gigrants recipe that was? I can't tell if its Concentrated or Brilliant.
it's likely Brilliant but dmg is reduced by the ph skill that helps faster charge time

[SteveCZ]

So I'll just summarize a bit here, Hero's advantage over Phantom (in my opinion):

1. Hero's step can let you kill enemy after, Phantom's step can let enemy to kill you
2. Hero lets you hit what you want, Phantom may hit anything it wants even if you don't want to
3. Hero is easy (literally designed to be that way), Phantom is tricky (probably designed to be that way)
4. Hero flies deliberately, Phantom flies on its own
5. Hero can make you almost forget how to play standard classes, Phantom reminds you of standard classes

I guess that's all so far. Just for fun. :lol:

[Reilet]

The real comparison of hero vs phantom is literally this:

Do you like swords or ilgrants more? Sword? Go to hero. Ilgrants? Go to phantom.

You also can’t really say that rod phantom is good... if the thing that makes it good is techs and ilgrants.

[Shoterxx]

I use swords 24/7, and I prefer Phantom over Hero.

Hero is a solid class, but Phantom is way more fun to play with.

Sad to see that almost everyone is using Rod exclusively.

[[Ayumi]]

On Phantom the only weapon I was having fun with was the Rifle, but I've always been more of a RAmarl.
Then again I really like the Twins+Sword on Hero (excluding using the Cards just for Hero Time+Finish).

Not shocked that for me the weakest link within Phantom has to be Katana.

[ArcaneTechs]

;3462472']On Phantom the only weapon I was having fun with was the Rifle, but I've always been more of a RAmarl.
Then again I really like the Twins+Sword on Hero (excluding using the Cards just for Hero Time+Finish).

Not shocked that for me the weakest link within Phantom has to be Katana.

Katana is not as bad as you think it is

[SteveCZ]

Sad to see that almost everyone is using Rod exclusively.

Yeah, I hope not. Katana is actually good. It's just probably the hardest to control among the other weapons as it isn't straightforward.

[Dark Priest]

I use swords 24/7, and I prefer Phantom over Hero.

Hero is a solid class, but Phantom is way more fun to play with.

Sad to see that almost everyone is using Rod exclusively.

uhh.. You must not be looking very hard, i know nearly 90% of the phantoms i'v seen are using rifle the most, followed by katana, rod seems to be very rare. i my self try to balance all 3, and even though i disliked rifle, it's starting to grow on me, but i slightly favor katana, and rod mainly for large groups. though it does not seem to do as much damage to high levels. maybe i haven't seen all of it.

[oratank]

from i saw tech rod is the most powerful of all 3 type katana kinda have slower dps than rifle

[Dark Priest]

from i saw tech rod is the most powerful of all 3 type katana kinda have slower dps than rifle

You mean just casting techs from the rod? i don't expect them to be as strong as force techs but i assume you mean a combo of tech casting and rods PAs.

[Suirano]

Playing around more with Phantom, I can see the appeal of all 3 weapons. It's really just finding the right PAs to work with Shift Actions and PAs minus Rod where its just spam Il-Grants and occassionally put up that AoE ring to do some extra damage ( That ring does wonders for Vamp Strike ). However, bosses like Omega Masquerade and Anga will force you to not solely depend on that. I do like Katana Ph as well. It feels fun to move around with and the PAs are enjoyable but I haven't found the best setup with it. I am still learning Rifle as R atk stuff in general is stuff I just never really touched.

Honestly, Short charge techs is what makes Rod seems much more powerful. It's insane how fast you cast stuff without any stipulation like Bouncer's quick cast even with the weakened damage of techs.

Phantom is definitely a fun class. I can see some people doing some crazy stuff in the future with it. I personally enjoy it more than Hero but Hero was really fun too. Sadly I am still too attached to Bouncer to fully switch over to Phantom.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The real comparison of hero vs phantom is literally this:

Do you like swords or ilgrants more? Sword? Go to hero. Ilgrants? Go to phantom.

You also can’t really say that rod phantom is good... if the thing that makes it good is techs and ilgrants.

That's like saying rod force isn't good because what makes it good is techs.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

As far as learning curves go, rifle and rod are kinda tied for simplest. That katana will take some getting used to.

[Mr3chi]

You mean just casting techs from the rod? i don't expect them to be as strong as force techs but i assume you mean a combo of tech casting and rods PAs.
ph main class wp mastery multiplier alone is around fote multiplier (~270% - swiki). foph is a hug buff for lighting & fire over fote in numbers. ph just has worser kit if you don't play right (compound dmg + pprec)

let talk about charge time reduction. the 50% charge time reduced in short will double your dps (unless ur techs take so long time to use). 70% * 2 = 140% dps or 40% gains with same dpp. with good training you can take at least 20% out of that 40%. no doubt!
does all of those numbers can out dmg compound techs? idk i don't fo :D

but the main problem comes from dpp is same as fo when fo has tons of pprec kits when ph can't even recover pp when charging. then how?
1. playstyle: norm atks are 'not-enough'. dodging is not reliable. i think the best way is using low thorn (3p at max) then taking adv of shift detonations to recover pp. you will need multihit techs to fasten the process. that is why ppl go for ilgrant + ramegid + shift voelkermord. they even do ilgrant for all elements cuz multiplier is good :-?
2. gearing: recovering more pp (radiant strikes, cursed rads...) and making pp more valuable (photon reductions) will relax ur rotations. with 3 photon reductions you will have total 60% pp reduction or 20% lower dpp than fo. 17pp tech will be 7-8pp (i'm with 2 photons and it's 9pp). remember spamming them make you invisible for over half of time so GU-cheesed gangs :-P

[Crevox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xxeAwvEFNA

Rod phantom vs Masquerade on random low depth as I'm still a returning player (21). Hit level 80 and just walked in.

Despite being super unoptimized and having a fair number of mistakes, still get a 2:04 clear, which is way faster than I'm able to do on summoner. Phantom seems plastic (with a billion iframes) but capable of high damage for little effort. Maybe it's just cause I've never played Hero, but "successor" classes seem like they just get handed lots of damage for free.

[TheFanaticViper]

Rod phantom vs Masquerade on random low depth as I'm still a returning player (21). Hit level 80 and just walked in.

Despite being super unoptimized and having a fair number of mistakes, still get a 2:04 clear, which is way faster than I'm able to do on summoner. Phantom seems plastic (with a billion iframes) but capable of high damage for little effort. Maybe it's just cause I've never played Hero, but "successor" classes seem like they just get handed lots of damage for free.

I don't know what weapon you used, but be careful with Masquerade because 15s weapon have a huge dmg bonus here (i don't remember the exact number but it's still very high at depth 20)

[Dark Priest]

The real comparison of hero vs phantom is literally this:

Do you like swords or ilgrants more? Sword? Go to hero. Ilgrants? Go to phantom.

You also can’t really say that rod phantom is good... if the thing that makes it good is techs and ilgrants.

No, if you like swords, use hunter or hero, if you like illgrants, use force,

If you like to play in a less braindead way and use the tools you have, then you properly use hero or phantom.

I would really hope people aren't dumb enough to already be using phantom like that " just use this one thing only, ignore all else"

[milranduil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xxeAwvEFNA

Rod phantom vs Masquerade on random low depth as I'm still a returning player (21). Hit level 80 and just walked in.

Despite being super unoptimized and having a fair number of mistakes, still get a 2:04 clear, which is way faster than I'm able to do on summoner. Phantom seems plastic (with a billion iframes) but capable of high damage for little effort. Maybe it's just cause I've never played Hero, but "successor" classes seem like they just get handed lots of damage for free.

you're using a 15* that gives roughly double damage that that depth, so of course it's faster.

[[Ayumi]]

No, if you like swords, use hunter or hero, if you like illgrants, use force,

If you like to play in a less braindead way and use the tools you have, then you properly use hero or phantom.

I would really hope people aren't dumb enough to already be using phantom like that " just use this one thing only, ignore all else"

That's one thing I usually found puzzling when I hear people talk about Hero in general.
Think it's mainly just sword with either spamming Rising Slash or just using the Vapor Bullet without realizing the Mechs and Cards also come in handy in situations (And on Sword if you're not using Brightness End at all then you're playing wrong).

[Crevox]

you're using a 15* that gives roughly double damage that that depth, so of course it's faster.

This is true compared to even a 14 star pet, but considering this is only day 1/2/3, there's going to be a lot more optimization done. Also missing ten levels.

[SlN]

Phantom is gey

[ArcaneTechs]

Phantom is gey

you the big

[escarlata]

No, if you like swords, use hunter or hero, if you like illgrants, use force,

If you like to play in a less braindead way and use the tools you have, then you properly use hero or phantom.

I would really hope people aren't dumb enough to already be using phantom like that " just use this one thing only, ignore all else"

The only problem I have with this claim is the phantom mag skill, which converts dex into stats rather than working between stats like Hr's does.
200RAtk does not look like a big deal, except it is because without the stats from the mag, I don't meet my stat requirement to use my 15* Rifle, which means that unless Rifle PAs are significantly stronger than Rods, using even techs in suboptimal situations would probably do as much as rifle PAs would do in optimal situations (just off of the better weapon)
Of course, unless the counter argument is to just get a dex mag and use every weapon in their optimal situations, but that's not an investment I would make for a class I'm sure if I will main yet.

[Dugs]

This is true compared to even a 14 star pet, but considering this is only day 1/2/3, there's going to be a lot more optimization done. Also missing ten levels.

No, you quite literally get a double damage bonus when using 15* weapon. It has nothing to do with optimization, a 15* weapon just does 200% or so more damage in this specific quest early on.

[Crevox]

No, you quite literally get a double damage bonus when using 15* weapon. It has nothing to do with optimization, a 15* weapon just does 200% or so more damage in this specific quest early on.

I'm aware of the 15 star bonus on Masquerade. My statement stands.

Even if I was doing half damage, it would still be around 4 minutes, which is still close to my Summoner, on a class 10 levels lower completely unoptimized in gameplay, gear, skills, discs, and all other setup, 1-3 days after the class was just released.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

[ZerotakerZX]

The only problem I have with this claim is the phantom mag skill, which converts dex into stats rather than working between stats like Hr's does.
200RAtk does not look like a big deal, except it is because without the stats from the mag, I don't meet my stat requirement to use my 15* Rifle, which means that unless Rifle PAs are significantly stronger than Rods, using even techs in suboptimal situations would probably do as much as rifle PAs would do in optimal situations (just off of the better weapon)
Of course, unless the counter argument is to just get a dex mag and use every weapon in their optimal situations, but that's not an investment I would make for a class I'm sure if I will main yet.

Ph is also a good sub, and ph's mag skill work as sub, so might be a good investment in general

[LancerFate]

The only problem I have with this claim is the phantom mag skill, which converts dex into stats rather than working between stats like Hr's does.
200RAtk does not look like a big deal, except it is because without the stats from the mag, I don't meet my stat requirement to use my 15* Rifle, which means that unless Rifle PAs are significantly stronger than Rods, using even techs in suboptimal situations would probably do as much as rifle PAs would do in optimal situations (just off of the better weapon)
Of course, unless the counter argument is to just get a dex mag and use every weapon in their optimal situations, but that's not an investment I would make for a class I'm sure if I will main yet.

Yep glad i have dex mag, since was trying to build hybrid Br.
Ph AR is good so far for clearing mobs seasonal EQ like current one.

[Zulastar]

Nah, then more I play Phantom main then less I like it...

Indeed it have a crazy dps sometimes but it's very clumsy, not comfortable, low melee reach, have no inshurance skill.

The only weapon I can play about properly is a rifle. Katana's just brainless button mashing and Rod is less played, 'cause as I tought it's focused on Tech casting which I'm not good in. So I'll play Hero for a while.

[Reilet]

That's like saying rod force isn't good because what makes it good is techs.


What makes rod good on force is being a stat stick for compounds and PFSC. Why did you think talis was better before PFSC. Wand, hero talis, and JetBoots can also use techs somewhat viably, but it’s not what makes them good. Even Bow had a point in time where techs made it better.

[Flaoc]

I'm aware of the 15 star bonus on Masquerade. My statement stands.

Even if I was doing half damage, it would still be around 4 minutes, which is still close to my Summoner, on a class 10 levels lower completely unoptimized in gameplay, gear, skills, discs, and all other setup, 1-3 days after the class was just released.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

not even remotely close to true when his current hp in the 700's is 31m+ (counting the clones but still yikes)

[Crevox]

not even remotely close to true when his current hp in the 700's is 31m+ (counting the clones but still yikes)

What does this have to do with our discussion?

[milranduil]

I'm aware of the 15 star bonus on Masquerade. My statement stands.

Even if I was doing half damage, it would still be around 4 minutes, which is still close to my Summoner, on a class 10 levels lower completely unoptimized in gameplay, gear, skills, discs, and all other setup, 1-3 days after the class was just released.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

this to me sounds like your su runs are not well optimized then if it takes 4min at depth20 with su. maron/synchro destroy him

[Batty]

with the hype wearing down, me personally i think i prefer hero. Ph is fun, and quite powerful if played right, but at the end is not my style, hr possesing everything i always liked of other classes that i tried to play in a single one (massive swords, the masive mobility from bouncers, range attacks and a finisher to rival that of compound techs) So atleast with katana i dont feel at easy, its 2 main damaging PAs having limited movement when im used to being able to move as i want.

i might give rod a shot though when i get a good enought t-atk gear. I always liked the concept of a sword mage style of fighting and rod ph from what i can see its the sword mage that techer should have been since the beginning

[NightfallG]

I'm having a ton of fun with Ph and its more technical style, but Hero definitely feels more consistent overall.

Also Spread Needle is a blast with Ph, holy shit.

[KaizoKage]

Ph is fun for me and cool and flashy

But at the end of the day, Hr is easier to use with faster and wider normal attacks

[Sriracha X]

I agree with y'all. Ph is fun but I think Hr is still where it's at for me. I think Sega played it safe with Ph, so here's hoping they'll improve it in the near future.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Hr covers more bases in fewer attacks and is quite a bit more... abusable.

But I'll stick with phantom for the depth, and skills that seems like QoL I always wanted on Hr (holding 2 charges of phantom time with no recast timer, mark detonation mechanic, and most of all no losing 1/3rd of your damage for being blindsided)

[Batty]

if Sega updates Phantom by allowing them to have more liberty of movement on its PAs, then most probably ill give them another try, but thats currently the thing that pulls me away from the class, how most of the PAs either lock you in place or limit movement to a single direction while hero always has (on all its most used PAs atleast) free reign of movement during its attacks

[[Ayumi]]

if Sega updates Phantom by allowing them to have more liberty of movement on its PAs, then most probably ill give them another try, but thats currently the thing that pulls me away from the class, how most of the PAs either lock you in place or limit movement to a single direction while hero always has (on all its most used PAs atleast) free reign of movement during its attacks

My "main" main is Gunner and I would even say while Gunner at times normal attacks and some PAs could lock you in place or limit your movement to a single direction as well (and stop you from dodging like Phantom) at least S-Roll allows me to cancel out of something quite easily and move.
I don't feel like I have that freedom on Phantom and feel like I'm fighting with the class to do what I want it to do.

It's because of that why I ran back to playing on Gunner and Hero (and a bit of Force as that's my other "main" main).

[Sriracha X]

if Sega updates Phantom by allowing them to have more liberty of movement on its PAs, then most probably ill give them another try, but thats currently the thing that pulls me away from the class, how most of the PAs either lock you in place or limit movement to a single direction while hero always has (on all its most used PAs atleast) free reign of movement during its attacks

Yeah, this is the big one for me. Hero has that fluidity that had me move on from other classes, namely Gunner (and even then you can cancel out of pretty much everything like Ayumi mentioned). Especially with using Rifle, it's really jarring how most PAs lock you in an animation. Nachtangriff and its shifted variant after you shoot are prime examples. That, and I feel that some PAs could use a small bump in damage or maybe make blue markers do more damage.

[Flatflyer]

Right, I think the issue was that sega was terrified of making Phantom another case like early EP5 Hero where it did more damage than everyone else. But the reason why that was bad imo was because of how easy it was to achieve that "above everything else" damage with hero.

I feel like if Phantom was slightly higher damage than other classes average it'd be fine since the amount of effort required into optimizing Phantom feels much greater than most other classes, ideally this would probably be achieved with excellent Mark/Phantom Time management, Similar to how Gunner optimization revolves around Chain Trigger Management (I assume from what I've seen, I haven't personally played Gunner.)

[Stormwalker]

Phantom is interesting, but if Hero couldn't push me off of my preferred classes (Gunner and Fighter), Phantom certainly isn't going to.

It's fun to mess around with as an alt class, though.

[megaphone]

I feel like if Phantom was slightly higher damage than other classes average it'd be fine since the amount of effort required into optimizing Phantom feels much greater than most other classes, ideally this would probably be achieved with excellent Mark/Phantom Time management

Maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't find phantom difficult to play at all, even compared to hero. Marks and phantom time are both super straightforward, you pop marks as soon as they max and you use phantom time whenever you're sure you'll have good uptime. The PAs are all super straightforward too since there aren't any bonus mechanics on them; it isn't like fighter or hero where you have reasons to combo different PAs, it isn't like ranger where there are a bunch of conditional damage boosts, it isn't like fighter and braver where there are stances, it isn't like force and bouncer where element matching matters, etc., you always just use whatever does the most damage. Katana takes some getting used to because of quick cut, but rifle is better than katana anyway because of its headshot bonus and only uses two PAs.

Though I do agree it needs a bit of a buff.

[Zulastar]

The best way to compare these two: run Deus/Mother trig and Phanatical Phantoms with different weapons on them...
I can't do so now 'cause I don't have LV90 PH yet.

[SteveCZ]

So I guess as the hype wears down, I decided to stick with Phantom for a while and use Hero sometimes mostly for routines.
Mostly just a preference reason, like I've ever wanted a battle mage from Techer wand, and with this class came up, it's like a blessing. A true battle mage. XD

[Stormwalker]

Phantom is interesting, but if Hero couldn't push me off of my preferred classes (Gunner and Fighter), Phantom certainly isn't going to.

It's fun to mess around with as an alt class, though.

So, I'm quoting myself because I may have to go back on what I said. The more I play with Phantom Katana, the more I like it. It's fun. It's flashy, It has much better variety than Hero Sword does because of the shift PA's and Quick Cut. And while I will never stop loving Fighter, it is really nice to be able to melee and NOT worry about stances/positioning/TAJA all the time. Also, Tech Short Charge/Tech Sprint Charge/Tech Stealth Charge mean that using Resta to heal in combat is not only viable, in most cases it's safer/quicker than using a mate. Those two abilities also make having to rebuff my Shifta and Deband is much less annoying, though I'm still tempted to use an Adrenaline ring.

It's... Phantom Katana is kind of what I hoped DB Bouncer would be. I think I may end up playing this a whole lot.

I am not so fond of Rifle, but I don't seem to really need it. I do like Rod, though I've only scratched the surface of it because I feel like I haven't mastered katana yet. Getting a 14* rod drop last night may motivate me to dig into it more, though.

[mother clusterfck]

I'm a big fan of Hr and it easily became my favorite class, for most of ep 5 I played nothing else.
Ph so far is quite fun but not nearly as good as hr and tbh it's kinda different from the awesomeness I expected.
Still is quite fun but it isn't nearly as streamlined as hr, it feels very floaty and inaccurate and also kind of slow, I was expecting it to be faster and smoother.
I'm only lvl 66 so I hope I'll enjoy it more when I get better at it and reach lvl 90.

[ZerotakerZX]

I'm a big fan of Hr and it easily became my favorite class, for most of ep 5 I played nothing else.
Ph so far is quite fun but not nearly as good as hr and tbh it's kinda different from the awesomeness I expected.
Still is quite fun but it isn't nearly as streamlined as hr, it feels very floaty and inaccurate and also kind of slow, I was expecting it to be faster and smoother.
I'm only lvl 66 so I hope I'll enjoy it more when I get better at it and reach lvl 90.

Ghosts do float, so Ph is supposed to as well.

[oratank]

Ghosts do float, so Ph is supposed to as well.

Ph should look transparent like ghost or mist more than energy ball while charging tech

[ZerotakerZX]

Ph should look transparent like ghost or mist more than energy ball while charging tech

Maybe their nature is similar to ball lighting. It's just as poorly researched at this point.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Phantom katana seems underwhelming compared to rod + techs which just seems better and faster.

That being the case, I think I'll convert my katana into sword and have Hero do 'melee' duty. Hero's sword PAs generally function better to me. Just wish there was more skills to counteract the cancer that is hero boost so getting hit doesn't give me an experience of instant apathy

[TheFanaticViper]

Definitively i LOVE the Katana! I guess as a Fi main it's not a surprise because the PAs really look like the Twin Dagger one :

Schmetterling = Symphonic Drive
Folter Zeit = Orchestra
Wolkenkratzer = Fall Nocturne

But Ph Katana bring everything Twin Dagger would need to become great everywhere, and not only on boss : mobility, AOE, high pp regen with quick cut.
Now i want a "L/Katana Air Chase" ring!

[mother clusterfck]

Definitively i LOVE the Katana! I guess as a Fi main it's not a surprise because the PAs really look like the Twin Dagger one :

Schmetterling = Symphonic Drive
Folter Zeit = Orchestra
Wolkenkratzer = Fall Nocturne

But Ph Katana bring everything Twin Dagger would need to become great everywhere, and not only on boss : mobility, AOE, high pp regen with quick cut.
Now i want a "L/Katana Air Chase" ring!
Agreed, I also like katana best...but might be just cause I spammed so many keys with Kenei.
Only problem is the quick cut and shift mode timing, takes pretty long to be able to start a shift pa so not sure if the dps numbers are at all accurate as they technically got to incorporate the uncharged weapon action frames and damage as well since it's not possible to do a shift pa on its own unless you just used quick cut but even if you spam that it's more common to be unable to use a shift pa right away.
And quick cut itself, it takes too long to trigger and feels like pso2 turned into a ps2 game where the animation of your current attack has to finish before you're able to start another. Regular pas tend to be longer than shift pas but even then it feels like the quick cut window could be at least half a second earlier most of the time.
And finally, after quick cut you have a far too long shift mode window, especially for mobbing it's a big issue cause you cannot spam Wolkenkratzer or for bosses you cannot spam Folterzeit if you want to use quick cut to avoid running out of pp in under 20 seconds (at 210+pp),
Ph katana pas are really bad at combos so spam it is, but due to their massive pp cost and the way quick cut works spam isn't very smooth either,

And rifle feels awkward. The bits sometimes miss if you or the target moves and Nachtangriff having a fixed range is the regular pso2 bs of something being very unreliable but really good which is just frustrating, not fun.
Regardless of how strong some attack is, if using it successfully is too rare it's just pointless and not worth wasting time trying. Sega should have made Nachtangriff weaker but with variable range.


Ghosts do float, so Ph is supposed to as well.
lol

Still, now that I got to play Ph some more I enjoy it more but still a far cry from hr. Lacking any decent dash pa is also disappointing. Not sure I wanna waste a slot on Ilzonde or Safoie 0 just for traveling (when using lockon Regenschlag will home in on enemies and sometimes even turn you around nearly 180° so it's not just mediocre with enemies around but can actually waste time).

[Batty]

currently i been using Rod but mostly as a PA weapon, and i gotta say, im kinda having much more fun with it than katana, the movement is great, and the range is just obscene, also the marks stack up pretty fast if you have both zero and long range boost since the PAs rage is so large that triggers both boosts when it hit both close and far enemies, wich is easy because of the PAs and shift action range

[TakemiShinnosuke]

Phantom attacks are so slow compared to hero. Unless I am doing something wrong here , I find it very slow.

edit: Hero's attacks are faster but its per hit is much weaker compared to phantom.
Phantom's per hit is higher but it has a very slow attack rate.

[Meteor Weapon]

Phantom attacks are so slow compared to hero. Unless I am doing something wrong here , I find it very slow.

edit: Hero's attacks are faster but its per hit is much weaker compared to phantom.
Phantom's per hit is higher but it has a very slow attack rate.

You sound like you're playing it the wrong way.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

You sound like you're playing it the wrong way.

I wonder am if I am or is Phantom supposed to be this slow as compared to hero

[TheFanaticViper]

I wonder am if I am or is Phantom supposed to be this slow as compared to hero
What do you mean by "slow" exactly ? a weapon or a PA in particular ?

[TakemiShinnosuke]

What do you mean by "slow" exactly ? a weapon or a PA in particular ?

The PA speed. Its much slower than Hero's

[FantasyHeaven]

Phantom katana is actually fun and hero is just complete assballs in every single way.
Phantom wins.

[[Ayumi]]

The PA speed. Its much slower than Hero's

I say attacks too if you're a Range person. Class is not Range friendly.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

;3463160']I say attacks too if you're a Range person. Class is not Range friendly.

yup attacks / PA for phantom is so slow that when you try to fight deus garcia. lets put it this way, you end up dodging more than hitting him

[Zulastar]

I run Deus/Mom trig with Sword Hero, TMG Hero and Rifle Phantom recently. And the best time still have... Sword Hero.
Well I dunno how to play Phantom properly yet and don't have a 15* proper katana, but got disappointed in TMG Hero as well.

Just wanna give a try to that BoPh Vinto abuse and hope it won't get nerfed soon >_<

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I run Deus/Mom trig with Sword Hero, TMG Hero and Rifle Phantom recently. And the best time still have... Sword Hero.
Well I dunno how to play Phantom properly yet and don't have a 15* proper katana, but got disappointed in TMG Hero as well.

Just wanna give a try to that BoPh Vinto abuse and hope it won't get nerfed soon >_<

But people here say doing 1mil+ damage every 5ish seconds is fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!

[Rayden]

I run Deus/Mom trig with Sword Hero, TMG Hero and Rifle Phantom recently. And the best time still have... Sword Hero.
Well I dunno how to play Phantom properly yet and don't have a 15* proper katana, but got disappointed in TMG Hero as well.

Why are you playing "Sword Hero" and "TMG Hero" as if they're separate things? Hero is supposed to use all three weapons, and shines best when doing so. In fact, the Mother/Deus trigger is an excellent example of where weapon switching shines, as you can do things like continue to attack Deus at a distance with TMGs or set up Jet Wheels at times when you'd otherwise be unable to do anything.

[Zulastar]

Why are you playing "Sword Hero" and "TMG Hero" as if they're separate things?

You just can't max out both S-Atk and R-Atk simultaneously, you'll still need to choose. So I just concrete the main weapon I use here.

[XrosBlader821]

You just can't max out both S-Atk and R-Atk simultaneously, you'll still need to choose. So I just concrete the main weapon I use here.

Just because you're not doing all the damage doesn't mean you shouldn't use those weapons at all.

[Sriracha X]

You just can't max out both S-Atk and R-Atk simultaneously, you'll still need to choose. So I just concrete the main weapon I use here.

To add onto what Rayden and Xros said, you'll also want to be using at least two weapons to get gear up quick. Your gear gain rate decays if you use the same attacks and PAs, so you won't get to use Hero Time as often...and Hero Time is a straight DPS boost as well as recovering Hero Boost quick for any mistakes made prior so it's important to have that ready to go whenever you can

[Dark Priest]

You just can't max out both S-Atk and R-Atk simultaneously, you'll still need to choose. So I just concrete the main weapon I use here.

Yeah, that;s not how you use hero, as others have said you are punished on gear gain for not using different weapons/PAs You don't need to be doing the maximum amount of damage possible to play a class. This game isn't that hard. You most certainly don't need to choose, unless you just like playing hero in the least efficient way.

I tried that nonsense when i first picked up hero, using only one weapon, That lasted about 2 days before i got sick of that and found out it was a poor way of playing hero.

[ZerotakerZX]

You just can't max out both S-Atk and R-Atk simultaneously, you'll still need to choose. So I just concrete the main weapon I use here.Sounds boring af

[Batty]

and its the same with all hybrid classes, not just hero; phantom, braver, bouncer, are only played at their max potential when you use all the available weapons

[megaphone]

Phantom actually doesn't really get anything from weapon switching. Braver and bouncer do it because they have cooldowns for both their weapons, and hero does it for building gear.

[TheFanaticViper]

But people here say doing 1mil+ damage every 5ish seconds is fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!

But Vinto doesn't deal 1mil dmg everywhere lol
For the comparison, I saw on YT the same player ran Mother/Deus trigger as BO/PH in 8m40, and as BO/HU in 9m.

[Ransu]

But people here say doing 1mil+ damage every 5ish seconds is fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!

Yeah, on something that literally does not move.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Yeah, on something that literally does not move.

Let's just keep in mind that certain other class combos not a nerf the last time something like this happened.

[Ransu]

Let's just keep in mind that certain other class combos not a nerf the last time something like this happened.

Phantom sub forgoes survivability for the sake of tightening Bouncer PA rotations. You could already do this on other subs for more or less the same output just with marginally more time spent. Somehow, in some world, you're comparing this to nonsense I'd assume is SuGu or BrGu.

[Loveless62]

Somehow, in some world, you're comparing this to nonsense I'd assume is SuGu or BrGu.
Those were nerfed. I would assume he meant GuFi. ;-)

[XrosBlader821]

Those were nerfed. I would assume he meant GuFi. ;-)

No, he compares it to class combos that WERE nerfed. Gu/Fi wasn't.

[Loveless62]

Let's just keep in mind that certain other class combos not a nerf the last time something like this happened.

No, he compares it to class combos that WERE nerfed. Gu/Fi wasn't.
Now that I look at the original sentence more closely, I think either interpretation is fair. To be frank, it's not exactly the clearest sentence.

[modoru]

You could argue that "not" is a typo for "got", which makes more sense.

[Reilet]

You guys know that you can do what BoPh does on a BoHu as well right? You just need this jetboot: シュバイアティーガー

And before you go say it’s a weak weapon and all that blah blah... Gunners are already using missouri’s for the chain cooldown reduction.

[milranduil]

You guys know that you can do what BoPh does on a BoHu as well right? You just need this jetboot: シュバイアティーガー

And before you go say it’s a weak weapon and all that blah blah... Gunners are already using missouri’s for the chain cooldown reduction.

i don't think it's that easy to use that jb properly when vinto rotations are a fraction of the time of a 100chain rotation. you're decreasing your dps doing that and it's possible to get stuck in weapon switch lag because you'll be swapping too much.

[ArcaneTechs]

You guys know that you can do what BoPh does on a BoHu as well right? You just need this jetboot: シュバイアティーガー

And before you go say it’s a weak weapon and all that blah blah... Gunners are already using missouri’s for the chain cooldown reduction.
But CT at high chains are almost instant or 5s CD

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

You could argue that "not" is a typo for "got", which makes more sense.

^ Posting from a phone is not good.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

Help me on this lol.

I like playing HERO cause of the TMG where I can recover PP real fast and the fact that HERO basically suits my play style cause super ranger and its fast.

On the other hand , I know that EP6 story , the new mobs and ultra hard are probably based around Phantom.( I could be wrong ) The fact I like phantom cause getting in close to mobs is much easier now.

Hard chocies

edit: off topic. Check the fashion thread. Just posted new stuff

[ZerotakerZX]

I know that EP6 story , the new mobs and ultra hard are probably based around Phantom.

I don't think it'll be the case. Sega planed on this mindset earlier, but backlash forced them to reconsider

[megaphone]

How would they even base them around phantom? It's not like the class does anything particularly special

[Dark Mits]

How would they even base them around phantom? It's not like the class does anything particularly specialPhantom's gimmick seems to be its invulnerability when charging techs, but the dps suffers too much when going caster mode compared to Rambo style (unless I have been playing it horribly wrong). Maybe the "intended" way to play UH as Phantom is to stealth charge tech past an enemy's strong points, and unleash attacks while at the weak point.

-=EDIT=-
Which reminds me, maybe it's time for me to learn to play Talis.

[milranduil]

Phantom's gimmick seems to be its invulnerability when charging techs, but the dps suffers too much when going caster mode compared to Rambo style (unless I have been playing it horribly wrong). Maybe the "intended" way to play UH as Phantom is to stealth charge tech past an enemy's strong points, and unleash attacks while at the weak point.

-=EDIT=-
Which reminds me, maybe it's time for me to learn to play Talis.

idk what you're talking about, techs as ph are very strong

[Dark Mits]

idk what you're talking about, techs as ph are very strongThen I have been playing it horribly wrong. I felt my Techs as FO were at least 3 times as more powerful, even after considering the cast time reduction from Ph.

[megaphone]

Then I have been playing it horribly wrong. I felt my Techs as FO were at least 3 times as more powerful, even after considering the cast time reduction from Ph.

Did you measure that somehow, or are you just guessing? Because numerically phantom's bonuses for techs are way higher than force's before even considering tech short charge

[Dark Mits]

I'll check again when I login later today. This was my impression based on how quickly I could clear enemy packs as "Caster PH" compared to "Caster FO" in Naberius Forest XH with Wind Techs. Admittedly, I was Lvl84 PH with 13* Mars Estour Rod vs. lvl90 Fo/Te with Phobos Talis.

[Zulastar]

On the other hand , I know that EP6 story , the new mobs and ultra hard are probably based around Phantom.( I could be wrong ) The fact I like phantom cause getting in close to mobs is much easier now.


How would they even base them around phantom? It's not like the class does anything particularly special

I found this in story mission: shielded Luminmechs can be easily killed with indirect damage like Verbrechen SA, Strafe and Strafe SA.
Heroes will suffer hard times on these cause they're turned pretty fast and you'll end up always facing this shield.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

zzzz content built around phantom.
btw out just tried out UH and i do not seem to be doing the damage. Just had a quick duel and yeah cannot seem to top the board lol. ( even if it is just for fun )
9th place and i died once

should i go back to hero maybe?

btw check out my other thread i made. Ultra hard

[Dark Priest]

zzzz content built around phantom.
btw out just tried out UH and i do not seem to be doing the damage. Just had a quick duel and yeah cannot seem to top the board lol. ( even if it is just for fun )
9th place and i died once

should i go back to hero maybe?

btw check out my other thread i made. Ultra hard

Considering everyone and their mother is using phantom it kind of makes sense, and those "damage ranks" have always been Useless due to thinks like premium exclusive drinks and other things, dunno why they decided to bring that stupid shit back for random ETs.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

so because everyone is using phantom huh .
wonder when will people actually decide if this class is good for them?
(or are some people just playing to write their review and scoot , this is probably just my thinking though lol )

[Dark Priest]

so because everyone is using phantom huh .
wonder when will people actually decide if this class is good for them?
(or are some people just playing to write their review and scoot , this is probably just my thinking though lol )

That's how flavor of the month jobs work, it's new, so everyone is using it, i'm sure hero was the exact same way. But i wasn't playing when it was released. and i am certain the 3rd successor job will also be played by 90% of the player base.

[TheFanaticViper]

Considering everyone and their mother is using phantom it kind of makes sense, and those "damage ranks" have always been Useless due to thinks like premium exclusive drinks and other things, dunno why they decided to bring that stupid shit back for random ETs.

Premium drink doesn't give more dmg than normal drink. Contribution point in TD is weird, your ranking is pointless, but your title is pretty revelant of what you did during the mission.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

Just did a EP6 story run again this time using hero. Fought the shield mobs and I managed to S rank it.

Edit: Video is up. Excuse the last bit though cause mob is new so yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApaFYY9Fa2o&feature=youtu.be

[TakemiShinnosuke]

Hero seems special at the moment cause I note that it is the only class that you cannot use as sub

[ArcaneTechs]

Just because theres a new class out doesnt mean every single piece of content is tailored it. None of these UH fields are designed for Ph use specifically and with everyone playjng the new class in said content does not mean play Ph or bust. Figured you guys would have learned from this with past classes now

[Dark Mits]

Just because theres a new class out doesnt mean every single piece of content is tailored it. None of these UH fields are designed for Ph use specifically and with everyone playjng the new class in said content does not mean play Ph or bust. Figured you guys would have learned from this with past classes nowI think it's kind of the opposite, ie. Sega didn't create the class, then see what it's better at than other classes and then create content accommodating this; they first design new content, and then they see what may trouble players, and then they give tools to the new class that can overcome this new obstacles with relative easiness compared to the rest.

-=EDIT=-
That's what I believe happened with EP5 and Hero; they created Buster Quests which were intended to be used for the entire Episode, and then they saw that classes may struggle with going left and right swiftly enough; so they made Hero have relative easiness to that.

[milranduil]

what is it exactly that you think phantom does better here in UH?

[ArcaneTechs]

-=EDIT=-
That's what I believe happened with EP5 and Hero; they created Buster Quests which were intended to be used for the entire Episode, and then they saw that classes may struggle with going left and right swiftly enough; so they made Hero have relative easiness to that.

Ok refresh your memory on the old TD 1-4 days, this is almost no different and nearly the same strats could be applied to each tower. Yes Hero had an easier time doing things but it didnt mean a majority of the classes struggled either to run Buster Quest even with speed travel alternatives

[Kondibon]

From what I understand their original plan was to balance all future content around what were at the time going to be known as advanced classes, and leave the old classes in the dust, mainly in regards to mobility, versatility, and flow. Hero was, at the time, the first and only advanced class, making everything feel like it was based around hero specifically. People didn't like this direction, and sega decided to go back and re-balance the old classes in response to the backlash.

Chances are, even if phantom is meant to better at current and upcoming content, it's not by much, and most of the things phantom is good at other classes can do too, in some cases better. It's more likely that content is simply being designed how they always intended to. If content was going to be based around advanced/successor classes, but all the other classes were brought up to snuff before they even had the chance to establish that long term, it's unlikely Ep 6 content is based around a specific class.

[ArcaneTechs]

Chances are, even if phantom is meant to better at current and upcoming content, it's not by much, and most of the things phantom is good at other classes can do too, in some cases better. It's more likely that content is simply being designed how they always intended to. If content was going to be based around advanced/successor classes, but all the other classes were brought up to snuff before they even had the chance to establish that long term, it's unlikely Ep 6 content is based around a specific class.
pretty much what i wanted to convey but did it poorly

[Dark Mits]

Ok refresh your memory on the old TD 1-4 days, this is almost no different and nearly the same strats could be applied to each tower. Yes Hero had an easier time doing things but it didnt mean a majority of the classes struggled either to run Buster Quest even with speed travel alternativesI agree on that, it's not that other classes were unable to run content efficiently. The issue with Hero was mostly a community one, rather than class design one. Hero was simply slightly better for the average user at Buster Quests. And in a video game sligtly better means meta, and when something is meta then everything else suddenly becomes "unviable".

[milranduil]

I agree on that, it's not that other classes were unable to run content efficiently. The issue with Hero was mostly a community one, rather than class design one. Hero was simply slightly better for the average user at Buster Quests. And in a video game sligtly better means meta, and when something is meta then everything else suddenly becomes "unviable".

i think you forget how much better hero was compared to nearly all classes before they buffed everything else.

[SteveCZ]

The issue with Hero was mostly a community one, rather than class design one. Hero was simply slightly better for the average user at Buster Quests.

I think to sum up the power balance in episode 5 was more or less like this:

https://i.imgur.com/B4nTu06.jpg

So no it's not community one. When people said "Hero Star Online 2" back then it was literally all about Hero in terms of its design compare to other classes.

[Reilet]

It’s Gunner Star Online 2 instead. omegalul

[ZerotakerZX]

It’s Gunner Star Online 2 instead. omegalul

Let's just say it's Phashion Star Online 2, like it always has ben.

[oratank]

It’s Gunner Star Online 2 instead. omegalul

https://youtu.be/UFhfdXdW5jU?t=354 yep

[TheFanaticViper]

I agree on that, it's not that other classes were unable to run content efficiently. The issue with Hero was mostly a community one, rather than class design one. Hero was simply slightly better for the average user at Buster Quests. And in a video game sligtly better means meta, and when something is meta then everything else suddenly becomes "unviable".

Maybe you missed the very beginning of Ep 5, before the speed buff of every classes. Hero was just too fast and versatile, old classes couldn't compete. And not just in BQ, literally everywhere.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

Maybe you missed the very beginning of Ep 5, before the speed buff of every classes. Hero was just too fast and versatile, old classes couldn't compete. And not just in BQ, literally everywhere.

Yup it happened then and after the buff the dust settled until recently when Phantom came out.

[Stormwalker]

I agree on that, it's not that other classes were unable to run content efficiently. The issue with Hero was mostly a community one, rather than class design one. Hero was simply slightly better for the average user at Buster Quests. And in a video game sligtly better means meta, and when something is meta then everything else suddenly becomes "unviable".

Yeah, this is just echoing what others have said, but Hero was not slightly better when it was first released. Hero was a lot better. Not so much because of DPS, but because of mobility and time-on-target. Hero was just far more mobile than other classes when it was released, and on top of that the new content (i.e. BQ) demanded that degree of mobility to be successful... and even in the old content, having that degree of mobility gave Hero a major advantage.

I don't see anything in Phantom that completely blows away the existing classes the way Hero did when it was first released. Not that I have mastered the class or anything, but you didn't need to master Hero to see that it was better than everything else when it first came out.

[fullmetal24]

I feel like reviving this thread. It has been a year since phantom came out.

[ArcaneTechs]

I feel like reviving this thread. It has been a year since phantom came out.

since you didnt ask anything

Phantom destroys Hero, there, you can let the thread die off again

[otakun]

since you didnt ask anything

Phantom destroys Hero, there, you can let the thread die off again

In this day and age you need to make a tier list for the views. ;3

[ArcaneTechs]

In this day and age you need to make a tier list for the views. ;3

I would but i think youve seen how people get with the tier lists. As far as im aware atm Gunner and Phantom are top 2, Hunter and im not sure about the rest, i havent looked into it for awhile now (rather the research)

[fullmetal24]

since you didnt ask anything

Phantom destroys Hero, there, you can let the thread die off again How so?

[Zephyrion]

More versatile, damage is not tied to a conditional that you completely lose if you get hit too hard, but instead to very simple and straightforward multipliers that you don't need to be mindful of in actual gameplay (you just need to make a proper crit build with a DEX mag and enough PP on your gear for phantom to be ready to go).

I wouldn't say Phantom "destroys" Hero though, but basically Phantom's performance is strong and reliable while Hero's performance is potentially as strong but requires very clean play, and said performance varies depending on situation (Hero has very average/mediocre mobbing capabilities overall while Phantom is strong on both mobbing and bossing scenarios)

[ArcaneTechs]

More versatile, damage is not tied to a conditional that you completely lose if you get hit too hard, but instead to very simple and straightforward multipliers that you don't need to be mindful of in actual gameplay (you just need to make a proper crit build with a DEX mag and enough PP on your gear for phantom to be ready to go).

I wouldn't say Phantom "destroys" Hero though, but basically Phantom's performance is strong and reliable while Hero's performance is potentially as strong but requires very clean play, and said performance varies depending on situation (Hero has very average/mediocre mobbing capabilities overall while Phantom is strong on both mobbing and bossing scenarios)

with all the buffs that happened with Hero, it's gotten better but Phantom still tops it in almost every aspect.

[Coatl]

You guys don't think Etoile is top tier? Practically invincible as long as you're awake and deals good damage. Nowhere near as punished as hero or phantom for messing up.

[Zulastar]

You guys don't think Etoile is top tier?

It could be top tier if it had a usable dashing way on a par with crafted Safoie0 but without it it's damn slow or end up with no PP when arrive to destination. So 'cause of this in UH VRTD I'm forced to use Phantom again regardless of it dies like a fry and a single slightest hit takes a half of it's HP bar.

Speaking of Hero - it's dead for UH VRTD, it can dash pretty well but it's AoE sucks and you can steal last hits with Brightness End but no actual dps with it really 'cause it's high cost and poor PP management. BnS spam sucks as always. And still anyways you'll take damage from offscreen attacks so often end up without Hero Boost.

[fullmetal24]

Any hero advocates?

[Sriracha X]

Any hero advocates?

As much as I love Hero, the past few previous posts are absolutely correct. You have much more peace of mind playing Phantom and it is a more versatile class. I was playing Phantom for content much more than Hero before I dropped off PSO2 because it felt like I had to work harder as Hero (especially with how easy you can lose Hero Boost in UH content) just to get similar results I could with Phantom but with less effort

[Zulastar]

This half-assed Hero Boost buff just isn't enough: skill itself is a disadvantage now more than benefit. At least make it 40% losable boost and 20% permanent.

Brightness End's 40PP cost just for 1 not even fast 80-160k hit? Compared to 20PP SNacht with it's 2 hits 90-180k each, which can be spamed like machine gun with a ring and Luminous Flare for same 40PP makes 5 60-120k hits. It's not even funny. It must cost 25PP maximum but not 40.

[Jene-chan]

It could be top tier if it had a usable dashing way on a par with crafted Safoie0 but without it it's damn slow or end up with no PP when arrive to destination.

https://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AC%E3%83%8C%E3%83%90%E3% 83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%8A

Et PP recovery isn't great though. To my knowledge, the best option is PP Atra EX Gunslash since Et doesn't have a Genon and even if it did, it would probably be slower due to having to Mate/Atomizer to recover your HP.

This is my personal experience and I'm not claiming to be an Et expert but Et damage is okay if not a little on the low side. Don't really think it competes directly with Gu or Ph but you can do a respectable amount with all 3 weapons on bosses and they're very good for easy/relaxed mobbing. Also a great solo class for Divide outside of certain stages/objectives.

[Zulastar]

Jene-chan, dear, I already know this all. I just mention a thing that can't let Etoile to be marked as top-tier.

I tried Divide quest recently: Etoile just sucks at maps with a lot of movement.

[Jene-chan]

You were saying Et doesn't have good movement options but it does. Asagiri is still one of the best movement tools in the game (I actually think it is the best). The place Et is lacking is PP recovery due to lacking access to the tool every other class has.

[Lumpen Thingy]

use a stil or a lightstream with flowing grace and you won't have pp issues on et

[Zulastar]

https://i.imgur.com/WnxCan3.png (https://i.imgur.com/WnxCan3.png)

Switching weapons isn't a variant - it takes just too much time, and without it no options on a par with Safoie0: only slower or high cost one

PS If somebody still don't understand: my Safoie0 costs 16PP, placed on subpanel and can be used regardles of weapon equipped with a single press of separate binded mouse button so I can spam it as much as I want and S2, S3 Flowing grace left me with full PP when I arrive.

[fullmetal24]

Ok you guys convinced me.. switching to phantom

[Zulastar]

Ok you guys convinced me.. switching to phantom

You'll die a lot. No insurance skill is a major minus here.

[ArcaneTechs]

You'll die a lot. No insurance skill is a major minus here.

that can be said about other class that don't have this, play good and you'll be fine

[TehCubey]

I like Hero but it's not top tier. Still playin' it though.


You'll die a lot. No insurance skill is a major minus here.

Gespenst exists...

[Zephyrion]

I like Hero but it's not top tier. Still playin' it though.

I second this and will add than barring in very specific content or if you're going full tryhard to reach high scores in Endless, the difference between classes is honestly not THAT big, as in all classes are very much viable and being proficient and liking your class does much more than picking whatever's the best just because it's the best.

[ArcaneTechs]

I second this and will add than barring in very specific content or if you're going full tryhard to reach high scores in Endless, the difference between classes is honestly not THAT big, as in all classes are very much viable and being proficient and liking your class does much more than picking whatever's the best just because it's the best.

the differences are kinda big but if we want to put it lightly, we can agree on the last half of your post

[Zulastar]

liking your class does much more than picking whatever's the best just because it's the best.

And certainly that's why we have around in "Expert" noDPS mindlessly Wand whacking Tectors, Rising Slash holders and BnS spammers Heroes, HuEt in Defence Stance along with some WLs equiped which they don't even know how to use, Gunners without CT just spamming SRoll Arts around, Summonners who don't even know how to play a class properly and e.t.c