Spread Needles...

[Mr_White]

Maybe this is just me, but I hate joining a game and seeing a player brandishing a spread needle. They're just too powerful. With a spread needle, even a incompetent player can clear a room in no time.

As a FOnewearl this forces me to run to the front lines of a battle just to any kind of damage before the enemies are exterminated and frankly that's not my role in a party.

I'm sure there are many of you out there that think the spread needle is the best thing since sliced bread, but that's because you can use them. I'd be happy too if I could massacre five enemies at one time.

I'm just venting here, I realize that spread needles are everywhere now (thanks again to the dupers), but I wish that those players who wielded them would be a little more considerate in their usage. Let the rest of us get a couple of shots in before you slaughter everything in the room.

[bishop2049]

I agree MR.white. When i found my first spread needle i was like HAHAHA "I'm a God" clearing an entire room in 2 seconds flat on any difficulty. I realized how bored i was getting with the game so i went back to wielding my soul eater+35 and my chainsawd+30. Now im in love with the game again.

I also became infuriated once i played a game with someone who had a spread needle while i was using my swords it was awfull running around to an enemy just to watch him die 1 second before you get there. Is very annoying and unfair to other players(esp. paralysis) Therefore i retired my spread needle.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif

[Wing0]

Yeah, I've gotten mad at people using spread needles. I've actually gone through the forest killing only ONE enemy because of one of those. Most people are polite when you ask them to put it aside.

[Danger_Girl]

I have to agree. I've got one, and from now on when people join my game I'm going to put it away.

[Arcadean]

people really don't mind when I use mine. I use the special attack to paralize them and the damage is about half of what I usually do and I don't even do regular or hard attacks. just the special. It seems better that way and everyone gets exp.

[scott311]

Thats about the same thing I do: Just paralyze everything then watch as everyone else beats down on paralyzed Demenians. hehe then I'll heal and Shifta/Deband.

[Spy]

Personally, I love my spread needle, and I think everyone should go out and get one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif

Doesn't everyone benefit from a player being the best that they can be? It's like asking a force not to use Razonde or any other high level multi-targeting spell.

What really torks me though is when people are like, "Hmm, I'm a only a force so I'm going to have to ask you to put the needle away," as if it's MY fault that they are a force.

But, if someone asks, I will put it away, until the people that asked prove to me that they aren't competant enough to be productive regaurdless of what weapons I choose to use.

[Zephyr]

Spy, it's just the way it is... forces simply cannot compete with a spread needle (or any decent weapon for that matter). If a high level player is using a needlea forces best bet for XP is to dash into the room ahead of everyone else and get of one RAzonde for like 80 damage to each dimean before the room is cleared by the needler. But then again, it's not much fun to be tagging along and just sucking up XP without contributing in any meaningful way.

I've found that I have the most fun when I play with casts. Unlike most hybrid classes, casts actually can use your spellcasting_support help... so for at least that one game you actually have your niche.

[Lord_Ariakas]

I agree with Spy. I've had people tell me not to use my crash bullet because they were too incompetent and slow to get in on the action. Its usually those forces that think they are hunters and refuse to use multi-targeting techniques...instead they prefer to get destoryed in melee combat.

[Zephyr]

The reason high level forces use weapons is because once their stats are maxed out, they're actually much more effective in v.hard ruins with a weapon (even with the limited selection of weapons available to them) than spells. In my opinion force spells are somewhat comparable to normal weapons (flowen's, DB's, varista) in the hands of a mid level player. The reason weapons are so much better though, even for a force, are many fold. One of the biggies is there are so many enhancements to weapons but none to spells. So you start with the near equity between a plain flowen's and raspells and then it's completely lost when you start adding in things like photon efficiencies (55% vs Dark), Shifta (another 25% more damage), and */battles (much faster swinging). Then you have the fact that v.hard ruins monsters are very fast and they're often mixed in such a way that casting the raspell that is effective on some in the group of monsters does little or no damage to the rest... where the weapon hurts them all equally. You get into the situation where a hunter with a god/battle and and a rare sword with the right photon efficiences is hitting every dimiean for 500-800 damage many times in a combo in the time a force can get off one ra-type spell... and they do 0-180 damage (the high end of the range to the monsters with poor resistances vs that element). It's no wonder forces instead will pick up a Soul Eater +35 and a god/battle instead and hit every dimiean in the group for 200-340 (depending on criticals) 3x in a combo instead of getting off one tp expensive, weak damaging spell. You may throw a rabarta in here or there to freeze some enemies, but that's about it. Of course the final nail in the coffin of exclusive spell use in v.hard ruins is that spells don't do knockback like weapons do, so the mobs will overwhelm you...

So when you see high level forces using weapons it isn't because they're stupid... it's actually the right choice (especially when they solo...).
[addsig]

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Zephyr on 2001-03-09 23:22 ]</font>

[Lord_Ariakas]

zephyr:

I'm not saying that all forces that use melee weapons are stupid. I actually enjoying playing with forces that use melee weapons effectively. What i'm talking about are the level 41 ones on V.Hard that run around with the frying pan just to be cool, then bitch to me because they aren't getting any xp and that they are getting killing constantly.

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Lord_Ariakas on 2001-03-09 23:02 ]</font>

[Lord_Ariakas]

sorry. double posted. please delete.

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Lord_Ariakas on 2001-03-09 23:00 ]</font>

[Ziro]

I agree with my spread needle it doesn't give any1 a chance to get exp. I only use mine if it is necessary and to hit every enemy once to get exp. I find it hard sometimes to ge people to stop using it though. I frankly think a spread needle is a awsome but cheap weapon(from a hunter's standpoint).

[Spy]

A cheap weapon? That's simply an opinion... I could say that a handgun is a cheap weapon, or that Rafoie is cheap. There is no such thing as a weapon thats too powerful =P

[Haywire]

SPY...u have no clue about anything. U r one of the people that ruin the game for others because you are an egomaniac! U think you are the MAN cause u can clear the room. WOW, like who cant with that weapon. Chances are, and i m just guessing...without that weapon u r a useless hunk of metal with no weaponry skill. How many times has anyone seen an android with anything other then a gun? Or is it just me?
I m not bashing all androids, but u know who u r u no skill BASTARDS!

[Spy]

Haywire, I see that you've crawled back out from under your slimy rock. I wish I could say that I was glad to see you back.

[JTBKSC]

I believe there IS such a thing as a weapon that's too powerful, and I believe that weapon is the Spread Needle. I had one once (duped, aren't they all?), and it completely ruined any sort of challenge that the game presented, so I sold it to the shop (currently I'm using an ARREST ARMS, sort of a Spread Needle Lite, and I highly recommend it). When you have a spread needle, Very Hard Ruins becomes Very Easy indeed. Since there's no higher difficulty level than that, I would argue that the weapon is too powerful.

Were this not a game, but a REAL battle for survival against hostile alien beasts, then I would agree 100%, and would DEMAND that everyone use a duped spread needle (especially me).

BTW, if anyone's actually FOUND a Spread Needle, by all means, use it. Everyone I know who has one got it as a "gift" or from a "trade".

SPORTSMANSHIP - Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially FAIR PLAY, COURTESY, striving spirit, and grace in losing.

[Haywire]

Hey lick my balls SPY. I see you have pulled your face out from your mama's stank snatch to say a few words you punk ass biotch.

U r a loser!

LoL....U can't handle this little man...u r a no talent spread needle usin HO!

I wish i could say i m happy that u have not died you sorry azz bastard!

[Arcadean]

Haywire, while your fighting Spy...let me cram my Spread Needle up your arse and fire the trigger. btw, how old are you? This game is rated Mature, meaning you can't play it. (sorry)

[Haywire]

U think your pretty slick dont you, just another spread needle user i m sure.....

You are pretty defencive of Spy, why is that?! Does it have to something with raming something up his ass, u seem to b fond of that, judging from your last posst. Just guessing tho, i could b wrong, but then again i doubt i am.

Funny u talking about maturity and then making a childish post yourself, WAY TO GO CHAMP lol. Nice contradiction boner!

I love the weak opposition here...keep it coming FLAMERS!

[Arcadean]

Just because Spy wouldn't cyber with you doesn't mean you have to take it out on others.

funny, talking about how I post...

Go get laid Haywire. And if your not old enough, do i with yourself.

your IQ must not be too high either because anyone who reads this should know that I use a Spread Needle.

Also your spppelling and grammar sucks. Go to school and stop posting here you twelve year old.

Now after that maybe people can understand what your saying. So shut up.

I am slick and your slimy..kkthx. And I only like to ram my Spread Needle up assholes of assholes like you. Now I hope you don't respond because I don't want to argue with a 12 year old anymore and blow my lid again.

[Sheogorath]

Hey now, I agree with Haywire!!!! I'm a level 100 RAcast, and nothing irks me more then some Paltry level 50 cheater strutting around with the japanese-quest only Spread Needle while my wimpy 100 RAcast makes do with a Final Impact.

But you know whats sad? I actually do more damage then these kids with their Spread needles.

Of course, although I agree with Haywire, I do not agree with her comment that all Rangers are no-skill b*stards. Thats not true.

When I play in a NON V. hard Ruins game, I use my Soul Eater +35 instead, and thanks to my 707 HP and wicked Defense, I can absorb all the damage in the party, and give the Forces and other rangers a chance to blast the enemy from afar. (And If I want to show off, I get out my S-beats)

I don't think Rangers are lacking in skill, no matter what weapon they are using. Though I DO agree that it's the responsibilty of the highest level character in a game to absorb damage and take the front line. (Unless you are a force.)

[scott311]

rofl JTBKSC, I got a good laugh out of that post. Funny as hell. =P

[Pollo_loco]

Haywire - Troll, 'nuff said, end of discussion. Any further shall be ignored.

As to the other, more intelligent, posts - the spread needle does seem to detract from the whole spirit of mulitiplayer gaming, but once you've hit 100, who needs the XP anyway? I don't mind, I'll let the kiddies have fun with their toys - and, heck, I'll be cannon fodder, too. But it's so much more fun to kill with the edge of the blade than to blast some caps. Play nice, or find some new playmates - it's quite a large sandbox.

[AK404]

Wait just a minute...

I've seen Spread Needles before, but where do people find them?

What irks me is that they are indeed the best weapon, but why Hunters AND Rangers when it really should be a ranger-only weapon, the epitome of ranged combat?

As for the leveling remarks, the Spread Needle is similar to the Barbarian's Whirlwind (from Diablo 2): once a Barb got started into one of those, there was no freakin' way anyone was going to get a kill in until that Barb died, so they just left. IOW, it's a cheap-o game breaker that should be curbed in its usage.

As much as I hate to admit it, PSO's combat system is actually much simpler than D2's but face it: if you know the Spread's gonna kill thigns just that fast, I'd say let the other players get their licks in, THEN unleash the storm.

[gokussj4]

where would i get a spread needle offline,
for offline use only?

[Arcadean]

I got my spread offline VH in ruins.

[vidkid7]

actually people like Spy are perfect for my job in the game. I go into the new enemy filled room... use a multi enemy attack.. get them all following me while the others pop up behind and smash 'em all. Ah the joy of being kamikaze/decoy. ^_^

[neobashi]

ALL U PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT US TO USE SPREADS ARE PUSSIES U STAY IN THE BACK HOPING NOT TO GET KILLED NOT HELPING US AT ALL ITS TOTAL SHIT U JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY WHEN I USE A SPREAD I PARALYSE EVERYTHIN AND RUN I DONT TAKE ALL THE KILLS I LET PEOPLE GET EXP.

[THX]

I used melee weapons for the first 70 levels and 100 hours of my character's development, and now I want to relax and stand back a bit and not spend so much on dimates, trimates and star atomizers.

And when I'm playing in a group, I feel like it's my *responsibility* to freeze the enemies that are charging at my teammates. Sure, I could run ahead and kill everything, but that wouldn't be fun, for me or anyone else.


Consider that this is the first time (as a HUcast) that I've been able to use a long range attack that targets mutliple enemies. Also consider that any Ranger or Force gets to experience that type of gameplay MUCH sooner in the game.


I played last night with a level 100 Force, and it was like a race for us to freeze the enemies. He would run in with his ice spell, and I'd get the rest with my needle. We did the Ruins on V-Hard, just the two of us, and it was incredibly fun.


At level 72, it's over 30,000 exp to level up. Without a weapon like the Spread Needle, it would take FOREVER for me to level up, while my Force and Ranger counterparts rush ahead of me in exp.


That's why it's the only gun I'll use.


Now convince me that I'm wrong. The Needle is the ONLY way to get decent exp for a Hunter, especially a HUcast. And don't tell me to use a sword. They're ridiculously slow and have a horrible recovery time. Give me a couple God/Battles and I'll think about it, but until level 99, the Needle will be all I use.

[Nordramor]

On Spread Needles,

There are other multi-targetting long range weapons that Hunters can use. They're called SLICERS. Nobody seems to use them, because, compared to Spread Needles, they don't do enough damage.

You see, most weapons are a trade off between damage, range, etc. Spread Needles are not a trade-off. They are the best of several categories, meaning they immedatiely outclass nearly every weapon in the game and ruin any sort of balance the game had.

Earning EXP is great, but the whole point of playing PSO is to enjoy the journey, to have fun. When everyone has Spread Needles in a game, there is no challenge, no teamwork, no sense of commroditry. Everyone just blasts away for the 5.5 seconds in takes to clear an entire room of all 3 waves of enemies.

I was in a party that did this. 3 Spread Needles can kill anything before it even moves from its spawning spot. We cleared the entire Mines in about the time it takes to run from the Mine 1 entrance to Vol Opt's teleporter. Vol Opt's 2nd form didn't even last a minute. It was the most unfulfilling adventue I've ever had.

So I ask people to put away their Spread Needles now. Especially when I'm playing a NORMAL game with one of my low-level characters and some level 10 wants to use one.

Nordramor
Nordy!

[THX]

I would use a sword before I'd ever touch a slicer.

Slicers have horrible accuracy and recovery time, but do much less damage than swords.


I have 3 rare slicers, all of which I've used, and then banked because I hate using them, and they make the game less fun.

[Naylor007]

I have a questoin, not about the post subject but about the posting of several members. Where is the moderator of this forum???? Isn't this childish swearing and fighting something you are supposed to prevent?? I do not know who the moderator is on this forum but I think they need to get on the ball and do their job.

[THX]

Apparently, as long as you never question where Lynx gets his ultra rare weapons *cough*cheater*cough*thief*cough*, you can say whatever you want.

[GEBB]

I also agree with u Mr white it is so cheap and it takes the fun out of the game. Everyone has it too. They should have never made it. Its like the farsight that u could shoot thru walls with in perfect dark.

[Enchantress]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_frown.gif i saw this lvl 30 dude with spread needle and an opa opa mag...he was more powerful than me (lvl 92) ugh..killing the monsters like nothing!

[Sheogorath]

More powerful then you, enchantress? Hardly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

LThe guy up above who said that he uses Spread Needles to level up...hey, I totally agree with you!!! I would never have reached level 100 by Mid February if it wasn't for my Trusty Meteor smash (45% V.S. Dark) I played mostly offline, because people called me a Gamesharker (sigh) and during my offline games, could clear V Hard in under an hour. Easy. I went from 60-100 in about a week. Thats how easy it was.

So no, I certainly won't prove you wrong on that, you are 110% correct.

However, I feel it's the responsibility of the level 100 fighter classes (Rangers/Hunters) to take the front line and absorb hits.

Ask those who have played with me. I dig out my S-beats or my Soul Eater and jump into the frontline. I don't kill the enemies, just soften them up, and stand in front so the enemies run after me, and not them.

I think it was enchantress in my game tonight who said, and I quote, "I need to play with Sheo more often, since I level so fast."

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

That comment felt better then finding the Inferno Bazooka http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

Anyhoo, my point is that it's the responsibility of the people with the high defense and high HP to absorb damage and "Soften up" enemies. It's not fair for some level 80 guy with a needle to sit back, away from enemies, while the forces run away from monsters and everyone else burns through there heals.

Hey, but then again, thats my opinion, and like arseholes, they stink and everyone has one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[Spy]

Back up at the first post, it says that the spread needle is effective in incompetant hands, but how do competent players use it? They paralyze everything and let everyone else get their hits in. If that takes away something from you in the game, then leave, or start your own. It's that simple.

Since my first reply to this post, I have drastically cut down my use of the good ol' SN, but when those dark gunners come out, or the rest of my team is sweating bullets... or I'm outnumbered 3:1 I can't think of any other weapon I would want in my hands.

[Sheogorath]

So thats your go-to weapon? Hey, not a thing wrong with that. I know in the many, many games I've played in the past 3 days with the people here, I have never been in a "sweating bullets" situation. That, of course, is probably due to the fact that everyone was at the very least, in their low 80's.

My "Go-to" weapon for when things get scary would be none other then that meteor smash. (Makes it easy, since thats the weapon I use all through Ruins)

I still think that if I found a Spread Needle, I wouldn't use it for two reasons:

1: Its too small, and I like my guns big
2: Its too quiet, and i like my guns noisy

I have yet to see a SN user who can do more damage then me in ruins with my Efficient Meteor Smash, and no, thats not a flame nor a contest http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[VampireLR]

The fun of the game really depends on the players. I, a Force, was playing with 2 hunters, a ranger with a spread needle. When someone is trouble I would freeze the enemies with my 15th level Rabarta or the ranger paralyzes them with the spread needle, then the hunters slaughters all the frozen enemies. I really enjoyed that game because we all contributed as a team, we backed each other up in the game from start to finish. (Kicked DF butt in so many ways).

We also established how to split the loot. All the cane rares were mine (eventhough they were all clubs of laconiums *sigh*) while the ranger gets the rare guns and hunters got the sword ones. With items being 2 of them were androids I got most of the fluids and spells while the mates are theres. We even split the money. No one was a item ho. No one stole weapons. It is players like these that make the game fun.

[Lucidservant]

They are cheap. I love them. See spot run. Run spot run.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[Sheogorath]

I think Lucidservant spoke the words that finally ended this debate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

I am not knocking people who use SN's. Heck, if thats your weapon, cool. My strategy is to let the enemies beat on me and let those in my game whack them as they are all trying to hit me. Works great, I dont need Experience at level 100 anyway. I'm here for Rares. (How many people found a bazooka normally?)

Anyhoo, If someone wants to use SN's for the paralyzing effect, perfect! Thats great! The problem is when some guy comes in and kill-steals everything with an SN.

But I usually humble the SN users in my game when they see the damage I can do without one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

/me drops arguement and backs out

PEace http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[THX]

Yeah, I understand the arguments against the Needle, but I use mine responsibly.

And as soon as I hit level 99, of course, it gets put away forever.

[Spy]

heh, forever is a long time...

[kr0nic]

I would have to agree that the Spread Needle can be way too powerful if people don't use it the right way. My first experience with one was in hard forest 2, I believe, and the game was great. Whoever had it (I'm forgetting who it was now) only used it to freeze the enemies. Then the rest of us could get our hits in and actually get experience for the fight. However last night I had finally leveled up to 40 so I decided to start a v-hard game to see what it was like. No more than 5 minutes into the game came two guys with spread needles. They would just run in and clear a room with out even giving me and the other guy in there a chance to do anything. After they joined I think I got about five or six hits in by the time we got to the dragon. That doesn't really do much when you're trying to level up and try something new. And the only reason that I didn't start a private game in the first place was because its more fun to play with other people. Just not when the take advantage of the situation. Needless to say, it was really disappointing and it wasn't very fun at all. So I would have to agree with Mr. White's original post. As nice as it may be to get one and be able to use it, please be considerate to the people that don't have one.

[Boris]

Ok! I agree that the Spread Needle should only be used on certain occasions. Too much is just that, too much. Even though I have one myself, I only use it when I?m alone or playing offline, quick & easy experience points. I tend to stick to Twin Blades, Stag, P-Arms, or a Big A$$ Sword, and my occasional Egg Blaster. My least favorite type of weapon is gun types.

[Samuel-Vimes]

?ALL U PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT US TO USE SPREADS ARE PUSSIES U STAY IN THE BACK HOPING NOT TO GET KILLED NOT HELPING US AT ALL ITS TOTAL SHIT U JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY WHEN I USE A SPREAD I PARALYSE EVERYTHIN AND RUN I DONT TAKE ALL THE KILLS I LET PEOPLE GET EXP.?

WTF? I DON?T stay in the back, hoping not to get killed. If anything, I RUN towards enemies. If a teammate is in trouble, I will put Hucast ass on the line. It would be easy for me to say that all Spread Needle users are complete assholes, but I won?t lower myself to that level because I know that it isn?t true and because it isn?t my way to degrade other people in order to defend myself. If playing in a team and depending on the situation, in the right hands a Spread Needle user can help out the team. In the wrong hands, it kills teamwork and there is no point in playing with someone who uses one. Unfortunately, all the Spread Needle users I have played with have been the latter. I?ve played, as a level 100 Hucast and as a level 31 Fomarl, with people who use Spread Needles. As my Hucast, I barely reached the first enemy before two players (both much lower level than I was), using Spread Needles, effectively cleared the room. As my Fomarl, I was playing a game with 2 others, when a level 39 player came in with a Spread Needle. All he or she did was run ahead and cleared out the rooms before the rest of the team could get there. Needless to say, I left the games. Neobashi, if you use the Spread Needle as you say you do, I applaud you and those who do for it. Calling me names just because I would prefer for people not to use Spread Needles is not a good way of trying to get me to see your position (if that was really your intention).

?Now convince me that I'm wrong. The Needle is the ONLY way to get decent exp. for a Hunter, especially a HUcast. And don't tell me to use a sword. They're ridiculously slow and have a horrible recovery time. Give me a couple God/Battles and I'll think about it, but until level 99, the Needle will be all I use.?

The Spread Needle is definitely not the only way to get experience for a Hunter. Hunters, with the exception of the Hucasts, can cast an area spell that hits multiple targets. I have had no problems using a sword or long sword to level up to 100 without the use of Spread Needle and I now have a level 100 Hucast (non gameshark here). I could have gotten a SN from a friend (was really tempted), but I refused. Why? Probably because I prefer to hack and slash my way through a room. Much more fun and interesting imho. I also feel that the Spread Needle really cuts down on the challenge for me.

?I used melee weapons for the first 70 levels and 100 hours of my character's development, and now I want to relax and stand back a bit and not spend so much on dimates, trimates and star atomizers.?

At the higher levels and on v-hard, money isn?t hard to come by. I usually find that most high level people have more money than they know what to do with. I buy trimates, star atomizers, and trifluids (for my Force partner) just so I don?t carry around cash. You also don?t have to spend much on mates if you play with a good group who take care of one another.

To everyone, sorry for my long post.

[beany]

When i finnally get one, (which i will) i will go in get one hit and just watch the others backs. When i go online i sometimes find newbe's go with them and just stay back and help when they get in trouble. Allot of times i get A THANKS!

[Stoned_Cat]

...personally i've never had or used a SN.
But ive always prefered swords to guns. Maybe its because I always get a rush going into a room full of guys with a Silence Claw or Cross Scar and tearing those b****es to shreds.
And SN DOES in fact ruin exp, esp for close range fighters... sometimes its hard to even get one hit in (unless the SN user uses solely paralyze) so I am forced to use a gun of some sort.

[Lucidservant]

My roommate is now level 43 thanks to my trusty SN. I actuall prefer using my Brave Knuckles (first rare I found) that are now grinded to +55http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif I think that the bigger weapons were meant to encourage newbies. Helping each other is what online is there for. If someone abuses power, just leave their prescence.