Your opinion on Melee Forces?

[DismantleMyMind]

Now, people, don't get me wrong. I fully support Melee FOrces, as, I myself have one. But, what is your opinion?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DismantleMyMind on 2003-07-01 00:27 ]</font>

[Micah]

I personaly see a Force as the support unit for a team. Even though they can be powerful on thier own. Not my first choice when running into battle by myself though.

[Dime]

I like em, weaken down the enemy with techs, the finish em off. Though I hate forces who go JUST melee, because they just hinder the team.

[kat]

related topics for your perusal:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=53602&forum=1&25

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=55055&forum=1&34

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=55273&forum=1&41

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=52114&forum=1&48

And, the thread called, appropriatly enough, "Melee forces"
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=46270&forum=1&69

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kat on 2003-07-01 00:44 ]</font>

[UltimateShifty]

a lot of people disagree with me and thats really stupid...why cant a force also shoot the h*ll out of those annoying enemies. 'You're a force you MUST do techs' thats very stupid. I am a Fomar and it also can kick ass without techs. so why are a lot of people complaining about this?? everybody wants to make his/her char which he/she likes most.

[AndyPandy]

Forces should cast spells, and thats it.

[Captain_Dude]

*Thinks* How might Kuntar put this?Hmm...

Well, uh... "Go and fight if y'want, but if I ask for help, than drop yer fuken sword and come and help!"

Uhh... Something like that...

Yeah.... Uhh...

I feel that if you're good at fighting on your own, then go ahead and do it, but since you're still a force, you're obligated to help the team. And if doing melee combat gets in the way of that, then you're not a very good force!

[AxemPunanny]

My very first PSO char (on DC) ever was a melee force. In fact, still is melee; as I resurrected him onto Xbox. Area effect weapons (Partisans, etc) were his faves, as well as mechs. He definitely held his own on Ultimate (except ruins & DF), with his trusty Chameleon Scythe and Samba Maracas (hahaha). Of course, as a force he used his magic. Yes he was melee, but he always used support spells (S/D, resta, etc). As a force you can't leave P2 w/o them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AxemPunanny on 2003-07-01 04:06 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AxemPunanny on 2003-07-01 04:06 ]</font>

[Kanore]

If you want us Forces to be support, we'll be just support. We'll bring our guns and swords along, and we'll cast Shifta, Deband, Jellen, Zalure, Anti, Reverser, Resta, and all that other crap. And then we'll cast an occasional Gizonde to weaken the enemies, or to destroy traps. Good enough for support? That's support, right?
> People who don't like Melee Forces

Hmph. We can't support ourselfs with cash because we can't TP Regen... that's what Human Forces were built for. Let us do our jobs.

[HC82]

Some enemies are highly resistant to techs, so to say a Force should never melee doesn't make sense. Even a FOnewearl with a high hit % demon weapon can help wreak havoc on highly tech resistant enemies(since her atp is really low).

[Yosho]

It's funny cause sometimes some people get mad at me cause I can kick just much as they can.

They dont like me to fight but they want me to keep them beefed up with lvl 30 shifta and deband they like so well and to jellen/zallure enemies.

Who wants to just go around and throw techs all day, that gets boring as hell, plus i'm not the type to hide behind anyone and beg for protection thats just lame.

[Sham]

I think they are a waste of time when the team is full of Hunters and Rangers. (Except maybe for certain cases that HC82 mentioned with FOnewearl and Dark weapons.) And I can say this with a LV159 FOmar who has two sets of equipment: one for magic, one for melee. I never melee with a full team. It's so ridiculously pointless. Even with maxed ATA, 20 points ATP below max, and never getting hit for more than 20 damage by 1 monster, it's a waste. The Hunters/Rangers always outpower you, and I'd be better off with Resta Merge and max MST, supporting the team. In my opinion, you can't be the best support force if you're trying to melee as well. It's too much, a FOmar with a weapon equipped, slows down his cast speed, so you may not always get Z/J out immediately. And then some people try to worry about killing monsters, when it really doesn't matter because if you're in a good team, the Hu/Ra will take care of almost any monster in a single combo, making your inferior damage.. completely unnecessary.

For those reasons, I barely ever melee since I'm almost always in a full team, supporting. Even when you see those duped-out FOmars with 70 or whatever hit % those mass-duped ..[I'm pulling a blank for the name, but can't remember. They're the 9-star pink mechguns.] You notice they're damage is nothing compared to what you can do as a Hunter or Ranger. And neither of the intended Melee Forces, (FOmar/l), have sufficient ATA.

[Subliminalgroove]

It all comes down to how you play your character. You can do whatever you want... it doesn't matter as long as you pull your weight and back up your team when they are against the wall. Simple as that.

I personally prefer melee forces. Nothing is wrong with a force who is supporting me and taking some of the hits. Better than me getting pounded all to hell while a force sits in the background nuking things.

[Malkavian]

In DC I hated many melee FOmarls. They always went in fron of the team and killing the enemies before you reached the room with their full grinded srank mechguns and lv 30 shifta zalure.

When a Force hogs exp that way, that's wrong...

[Ryudo]

melee forces are just pointless, if you're going to play melee, make a hunter, there's absolutely no point in melee forces

You have shifta & deband and jellen and zalure, which make up most of the basic stat differences between a hunter and a force, but then the force has bad ata and a pretty crappy selection of melee weapons, making them just pointless

[Dan_theUltimate]

FOmar + Power mag + high level + Soul Banish= ENEMY-FUCKER-UPPER.

[s.TiNgEr]

a melee force!? OMG!!! Anyway, it's all about standing back and being a wuss http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Yosho]

I think all the Forces should go on strike and not cast shifta/deband those ungreatfull hunters/ranger and not jellen/zallure enemies. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I'd be happy to have a force help out on my team instead of just throwing techs all the time....boorrrrrring.

and to the person talking about FOmars and duped mechguns, what about all those really cheap ass hunters using those duped J-Swords and bkb's, the same for assramars oops I mean Rangers and guld millas

[LegendaryMage]

Yes, HUs and RAs still out power us physicaly, but you have all over looked that we have the capacity to cast good techs as well. I'd like to see a HUmar throw out a usefull GIfoie when hes surrounded in ruins, or freezing a hoard of enimies with lvl 30 RAbarta. 'Melee' is just half of the phrase 'melee forces'.

[happyalloy]

Melee FOmarls are the best once you get their MST maxed and still have the ability to equip S rank twin and good mechs http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Not as strong as HUs, but if they keep the support techs up, more power to them! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif AND they are great levellers offline, too

[SubstanceD]

MY Fomar is a melee Force but that should not suprise anyone, ATP is his strong point ( at least amongst other Forces ) so it would be incredibly stupid not to take adavantage of it, it's what he is made to do, at least occasionally ( if you have a Fomar and you don't melee at all than why did you even bother picking the character, in terms of his tp and mst there are much better Forces available ).

I can understand why a melee Force would not be too popular in Multiplayer play or Online since chances are there will be a hunter ( or several ) on your team, but it is also important to remember that NOT everyone plays Online. My Fomar is kind of a substitute for my Hucaseal, he has resta which she does not, he can cast offensive techs which she can not and he can cast suport spells ( shifta, deband, jellen, zaliure ) which she can not. I picked him to do the exact same things that she does ( ie. melee ) except that he would do these things differently.

[Jack]

I used to go all techs with my FOmar, but then I decided that I could put that ATP to use. Combined with level 30 on all of my techs bar Grants, I can do quite well. I beat Ultimate Caves offline as a melee FOmar. Deband/Jellen 30 eliminates most of the damage taken.

[ginko990]

My Fomarl is quite effective with her 55% hit vulcans and Soul Banish. As long as I keep the team with Shifta/Deband and Jellen/Zalure they're happy.

[The_Hero_Of_Time]

On 2003-07-01 08:43, Sham wrote:
I think they are a waste of time when the team is full of Hunters and Rangers. (Except maybe for certain cases that HC82 mentioned with FOnewearl and Dark weapons.) And I can say this with a LV159 FOmar who has two sets of equipment: one for magic, one for melee. I never melee with a full team. It's so ridiculously pointless. Even with maxed ATA, 20 points ATP below max, and never getting hit for more than 20 damage by 1 monster, it's a waste. The Hunters/Rangers always outpower you, and I'd be better off with Resta Merge and max MST, supporting the team. In my opinion, you can't be the best support force if you're trying to melee as well. It's too much, a FOmar with a weapon equipped, slows down his cast speed, so you may not always get Z/J out immediately. And then some people try to worry about killing monsters, when it really doesn't matter because if you're in a good team, the Hu/Ra will take care of almost any monster in a single combo, making your inferior damage.. completely unnecessary.

For those reasons, I barely ever melee since I'm almost always in a full team, supporting. Even when you see those duped-out FOmars with 70 or whatever hit % those mass-duped ..[I'm pulling a blank for the name, but can't remember. They're the 9-star pink mechguns.] You notice they're damage is nothing compared to what you can do as a Hunter or Ranger. And neither of the intended Melee Forces, (FOmar/l), have sufficient ATA.


Hmmmm...I am a level 101 FOmar and with S/D/J/Z I do 500 damage per hit in Ultimate with Samba Maracas...thats 9 hits of 500...Sure its not as good as the HUs doing 1000 per hit using their Double Cannons ans BKBs, but I can hold my ground very well..If you were playing with me and I was Killing everything before you could even get a hit in wouldnt you bo pissed off? So I do the other people a favor and Melee..plus Meleeing is funner than just using Magic. Also I will NEVER EVER be a resta bitch, I will resta you if you are low on health but if you keep asking for it I wont heal anyone.(I mean if you are bearly hurt and just want full health).

[Asia_Skyly]

I am not sure why this is an issue. The choice is up to the force. Now, if the question is about what is practical, being a Melee force, in terms of practicality is not the most efficient way to play. There should be no argument here.
I have a Fomar level 154. While I was the melee force up to Very Hard, once I hit Ultimate, I noticed that I had NO BUSINESS trying to kill anything in the Ultimate difficulty via melee. The Fomar ATP is meager in reality, even when shifta and debanded. The ATA is anemic. You cannot hit squat. Of course I could sit there and attempt to melee an Arlan for 100-200 hps of damage per hit, OR I could Cook his butt into a crispy flake with 700+ worth of Gifoie damage. let me think about this one... 200 hps of damage or 700 hmmmmm I think I take the 700 hps of damage.

How on earth could casting techs be considered boring?! Are you kidding me ?!?! Where are you playing? In the Ragol I visit, monsters have different resistance. The party requires Shifta and Deband and the crazed Ragol creatures demand a little dose of Zalure and Jellen. We are not even talking about whether to go RA, GI or Simple Techs. Compared to the Hunters hack hack slash... Forces will NEVER be boring.

[Ghaleon]

they kick ass

[Shimarisu]

Um, what about melee with weaps that cast magic, and weaps that steal TP? I NEED them, or playing with my FOmar gets boring:

Arion: Hang on, just off to the shop.
(5 mins later)
Arion: Er, I need fluids
(5 mins later)
Arion: I need more fluids, damn
(5 mins later)
Arion: I ran out of cash. Want to buy my mag?

(Note to Ness in advance - the above is an exaggeration, please don't bother telling me I can't play well.)

The thing that annoyed me most though, was just the other day on c mode. Now c mode is harder for FOs, because you really got to *strategically* ration out the fluids and exp. So being a FOmar on c3, I was doing my usual trick of running behind low risk enemies, thwacking them with the high attack on the weap (which incidentally was doing nearly as much damage and hitting just as many times as the crappy Swords rationed out to the other charas) and running away after getting a minimum of 1 hit in, to dodge any impending attack. I was doing this to ration TP get my EXP - to the tune of derision in Italian from the other (HU) players, and "LOL"s and cries of "FIGHT SOFT! FIGHT SOFT!"

Anyway I died, not by the result of meleeing, but by fuming at the other players and losing concentration - once after standing on a switch and getting hit twice with the, er, thing that falls on you, and the second time I got frozen by Grass Assassin while using my other strategy of carefully lining up monsters to hit them all with Barta. The HUmar standing right next to Grass Assassin could have fielded off his critical blow, but didn't. And when I got out of battle both the HUs had much advice for me:

"You are a force. Your ATP is weak. Your DEF is also weak. Don't fight."

The other FO on the party, interestingly, said nothing.

- Shimarisu

[Vejita]

On 2003-07-01 09:40, Malkavian wrote:
In DC I hated many melee FOmarls. They always went in fron of the team and killing the enemies before you reached the room with their full grinded srank mechguns and lv 30 shifta zalure.

When a Force hogs exp that way, that's wrong...




how prejudice do you get?


sorry but the last time i checked i'm pretty sure Forces weren't the only class that had the ability to steal experience every room.

You know if someone gave me a dime for every Tsumikiri J-Sword i came across and a quarter for every Double Cannon, i wouldn't need a job. And those i think are maaaayybe just a little more powerful than S-Rank Mechs...but maybe not.


And as for the main topic,

i have a lvl 122 FOmar. With my mind mag, Kabanda, i can sure as hell whoop some ass in ulti, which isnt too hard.

and also isnt too fun.


with my power mag, and my S-Rank Twin, and S&D, i can whoop that same ass, but faster!
and with J&Z, my low defense doesnt even matter, i cant even see my hp go down when an ulti gillchic hits me at all, i have to resta maybe once every other room.

either one is fine with me.

[Azrael130]

I like both Melee and spell casting Forces but out of the two, I prefer Spell Casters more likely because of my current equipment. I started out with a FOmar first on XBox and while I like him, I think they kind of messed up the techs for me. The strongest techs for a FOmar are the GIs, which makes the RAs pretty useless. I really can't do much damage with my FOmar in Ult because I don't have a really good power mag just yet. The GI spells do kick butt, but sometimes I can get caught in the middle of a Gifoie and get smacked to the ground. I prefer my FOnewm rather than my fomar at the moment but whicever type of Force I feel like being at the time is good enough for me.

[Dark_shocker]

FOmars are just about ment to be melee because of their high atp for a force, and pretty low mst. Their atp is just over 1000, which is pretty damn good, so why not take advantage of that, along with your level 30 shifta/deband and jellen/zalure. My FOmar will be full time melee when he is more powerful instead of sometimes using techs, and sometimes using my holy ray. Once i can use Vulcans u bet your ass i'll be using them and not using tp. And besides, trifluids are pretty damn expensive. And its not like the do 100 damage on a strong attack, they can do at least 500 with s/d and j/z. I actually perfer a melee fomar in a game because when u see big huge rafoies it gets pretty annoying. And when FO's always use razonde/gizonde on those Claws in ruins, you can even hit em because u can target them.

[tiltnkirby26]

I have a meleeing force(well its my sisters but I level it up) and she can do 350 damage w/shifta in v.hard mines. She can also be support instead of meleeing. It give me alot of flexiblilty and I like it.

[Wufei]

I think Force characters are best when using techniques, not when emulating a hunter. If you want to melee, why not use a class that's decent at it?

I understand that some people enjoy using melee weapons while being able to cast powerful spells. Most of the time, however, a melee force doesn't do much more than slow down the team. A hunter in their position could be doing the same thing, except much more effectively.

[Genkaku_McDohl]

the only time I go melee is if i want to replenish my tp via heart/series weapons. and if an enemy is going down in a few saber/series slaps, then i dont waste tp and go in for the kill.

[Sick-One]

On 2003-07-01 21:06, Wufei wrote:
I understand that some people enjoy using melee weapons while being able to cast powerful spells. Most of the time, however, a melee force doesn't do much more than slow down the team.



Obviously, you've never played with me or any of the other melee FOs I know, granted that when a hunter/ranger is around they are more powerful, but they definately do NOT slow the team down. As for whoever says that melee FOs can't hit, they are only half right. If you have high hit equipment (which isn't all that hard to get legit) and use rabarta to freeze your enemies, you will notice a significant drop in your enemies' evp. Zalure also drops enemy evp/dfp considerably. One last thing.. how many "AHHAHAHA I PWN J00 WITH RAFOIE NUKZ0RZ" forces do you know that actually make use of j/z? almost none because it doesn't help with their tech damage.. though some whose brains have evolved somewhat have figured out that jellen actually CAN help. Hybrid/melee forces are reliable and very useful on a team, keep up the good work to those that use them http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Wufei]

Obviously, you've never played with me or any of the other melee FOs I know, granted that when a hunter/ranger is around they are more powerful, but they definately do NOT slow the team down.
I'm sure you do it effectively http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif It's just that most of the people I've seen attempt melee with a Force just kind of ... forget they're a force, and only use weapons.

[ChaosWanderer]

Hey, I play as a FOmar, and I was on ultimate at lv 72 as a melee mage (Hey, 12 extra scape dolls, nothing to do, might as well). I will admit that my style would be more productive on a HUnter, I think it's great to whip out my trusty double sabre +35 and beat the living crap out of anything that moves. I'm not knocking support FOrces, but it's better to have diversity. who knows, someday soon we may see HUnters acting as FOrces, with mages using guns and RAngers tanking, but that's just me http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Skankhair]

I think anyone can play however they'd like, but a pure-magic Force is just more powrful. Period.

Why hit someone to do 100 damage, when you can use a spell and do 800?

For me, there is no reason to do so. On my Forces, I have never even ONCE had my normal/hard/special attacks short-cutted. No reason to.

A pure magic Force will eat a melee Force alive in battle or challenge mode, as well as clear out normal mode much easier and faster (of the same level of course).

BUT! If someone wants to play as a melee Force, I support their decision. If it's fun, do it.

[Vejita]

On 2003-07-04 23:35, Skankhair wrote:

Why hit someone to do 100 damage, when you can use a spell and do 800?




with my techs and mind mag i can do 400 with rafoie in forest.
but with my twin and power mag i can do 500 per hard hit, and kill every enemy in one combo (save hildelt but it's close) and use no tp.



BUT! If someone wants to play as a melee Force, I support their decision. If it's fun, do it.




thank you, that's what it should all come down to.

[Skankhair]

Vejita- Well, for you, at your level, with your items, it may be better to use your attacks.

But believe me, a magic Force can do WAY more damage than a melee Force ever can. You'll see: As you get higher and higher in level, and further in the game, your melee Force will be left behind by the other classes. You can't (ever) do enough damage with a weapon, nor hit often enough to compeat with other classes at higher levels, deep into the game. A magic Force would leave you for dead- Or if he's nice: Revive you.

There is no, NOT ONE, performance reason to be a melee Force. In terms of performance, a magic Force is just better. Period. More damage/sec to enemies, and takes less damage in return (doesn't get hit).

But like I said, it's all about having fun. I'm not putting melee Forces down, nor the people that use them. But if you think your melee Force is better (in terms of performance) than a magic Force, you are just plain dreaming.

And Vejita- Let's not forget that Rafoie hits many enemies- your attacks do not. I'd bet that your Rafoie will do more damage/sec than your normal attacks do. Especially over a long period of time that figures in all of your misses. Also, Rafoie is not a high damage spell. What does your Foie do?

High level Forces can do over 700 damage to 5 or 6 monsters at once and near 1000 damage to single monsters.

The most I've seen a high level melee Force do was just over 700... to one monster at a time... and he missed a lot... and got killed 3 times before I got hit once.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skankhair on 2003-07-05 00:35 ]</font>

[Nani-chan]

Melee forces are a mixed bag. They can get their mst maxed fairly easily and it may seem like they melee as a hunter or ranger at 1/2 the level but at least they can do the level 21+ techs. Intrestingly enough it's the human forces who get the s/dx2 and the grants bonus and who have the higher hp of the forces.

It's trying to be a multi purpose tool like the hunewearl or the ramarl. You may not be the best at anything but you can fill in the weaknesses of the team, but seem less important if a force does a good job at support.

Otherwise all teams would be Hucast, Ramar and Fonewearl since they have the highest Atp, Ata and Mst. The three stats that seem most important to hunters,rangers and forces respectively.

It's good to have some variety, especially if we can have fun and play nice in doing so.