Cheaters/ and Cheater haters

[Stixxx]

just a thought..

i see the world in black and white.. either you cheat or you dont..

i cheat... im ok w/ it

and all i have to say is if you ever cheated.. EVER.. your a cheater... black and white

ever read a gamefaq..... cheater
ever bought a guide... cheater
ever copied off a friend... cheater
ever found a dollar and kept it... cheater
ever used u,u,d,d,l,r,l,r,B,A,start... cheater
ever asked somone for help... cheater
ever search the internet for codes cheater
ever read up on mags... cheater
ever had a friend kick somone elses ass.. cheater
ever get undercharged and say nothing... cheater
ever lie to a cop."no i didnt see the stopsign" cheater
ever use a fake id.... cheater
ever bring a baseball bat to a fist fight... cheater
ever buy a lotto tkt... cheater
ever flip off your parents behind there back... cheater
ever put on makeup to look older... cheater
ever tell somone your older than you are... cheater

weather or not you feel its right or wrong in this one game... guess what if youv ever cheated, realize who your pointing a finger at ......yourself

dont go gettin all high and mighty thinkin because you havnt cheated (or havnt quite figured it out) on this game that your above it... once a cheater always a cheater... black and white...

once aagain i cheat and im ok with it.. are you???

[ragnarok]

You have a point there stixxx, but you have to realize this...

This game, Phantasy Star Online was intended for people to build a fictional character up, spend time working on that character and put your hearts desire into it.

Cheating for an online game that affects the other users, such as a PK hack or whatever or/especially duping is wrong.

If you have a game such as ff9 or record of lodoss war that does not have the online capabilities than if feel that it is quite okay to cheat on that because youre not good enough to play through without a quide or cheat.

l8ter

[Socrates]

"You have a point there stixxx, but you have to realize this."

Well, marginally, at best. Buying a lottery ticket? Please.

Stixx, I think you may be misunderstanding most of our stances here on cheating. The vast majoirty of us could not care one iota if people are cheating -- they can do it all they want. What we are opposed to is the fact that many of those cheaters then take the consequences or direct applications of those cheats, and bring it online where it has an effect, directl;y or indirectly, on everyone else that plays (see my thread here for more). We don't mind the fact that cheaters are cheating; we mind the fact that they are being irresponsible when they bring it online.

[Ratsmack]

Heh. I think you would have done better and sounded smarter if you just filled the whole post with the word "duh" over and over. Now, most of your examples refer to real life...so? Real life, game, two COMPLETELY different things. Asking someone for help is funny. Hee hee, please tell me you were just joking with that one. And as for the others, they're just white lies, lies that don't hurt anyone, UNLIKE the cheating in PSO, which does hurt the gaming community. The same goes with the cheating in offline games. Now, you then at the end say "Once a cheater, always a cheater." *blink* That's...not true. I don't know if you're talking about yourself, but I certainly have used codes in some games, but never online. So...therefore, I'm not always a cheater. As for your little petty arguments trying to make US look guilty...you really should have just listed "Duh" nineteen times. Real life is different, my friend, and so are white lies and offline cheating and *snicker* asking for help. And, just so I get my daily cheater bashing in, no wonder these arguments are so weak, it takes a weak mind like a cheater to make weak arguments.

[Stixxx]

Just to let you all in on a lil info bout me and pso?

I have a lvl 98ish Force.. I have logged over 350 hours w/ said char.. I have beat the game offline on vhard..
Now I play to get rares? dupe trade whatever .. make other chars to get to use the guns? or the swords.. currently have a ranger lvl 40+, and have plans to make a Hunter..

I can smell a gamesharker a mile away.. I myself don?t have a shark.. nor will I use one?

I have mass damage weapons like spread needle/ heavens punish (yeah for my ranger) but I don?t go mowin everythin and leave no exp for others.. I am a team player? and I dilslike those that don?t play as a team.. (startin to hate the sound of the spread needle)

I have duped weapons.(most of the rares are duped) and if you ever traded for a weapon you probaly got a duped one? who in there right mind would give away there ?only? double? or there ?only? lavis canon??..

I hate theives.. had a double stolen from me the other day..(yeah got cocky.. and died ah well) and somone was kind enuff to give me one of theres..

I don?t sell stuff on ebay.. I think that?s wrong? (but hey it?s a free contry, who am I to judge??)

To date I have actually found posiably 10 rare items..
Brave knuckles x3(meaning 3 of them) (forest vhard)
Photon claw (mines vhard)
Double saber (ruins hard)
Dragonslayer (dragon hard, proud of this cause it was 45% dark but im a force.. gave to a friend)
Various armor/shields
(keeping in mind the club of L, fire sceptar, varista and all the ?common rares? are not on that list)

as for duping ruining my game? I was happy as heck everytime I found the above 10 or so items,
still lookin for my own?

was given a 999 mag? got stopped the other day by the ?hacked item? screen? big deal I dropped it.. I still have my mag? life goes on..

dislike sharkers? lvl 100 runnin around w/ a lvl 2 mag? but hey that?s there gig? I don?t stay long in their rooms

as for PK hack.. donno how.. I can hit people.. but it don?t kill um? and if somone does it to me? hehe funni.. I laugh.. wonder how it was done.. and get over it..

I have had 5 or 6 bsod?s.. havnt lost anythin? EVER.. I have a funni feeling that folks that have lost sumthin on a bsod were trying to do some dupin? and screwed up? (or pulled the card at the wrong time durrin a save)

Digressing to my first post ..let me clarify

lotto tkt.. yeah you?re a cheater.. your trying to beat the system?(just my opinion)
asking somone for help (in a game) sorry for the confusion

as for the real life scenerios and such? just was thinking of things to drive the fact home?
if you try to beat the system.. your cheating? it?s the american way? hell it?s the human way, quicker faster, easier, now?

im glad to see sega implementing anti shark technology? they should of thought of that in the first place..
but you gotta understand to provide a console with a offline and online type game.. there will be holes in the system? and there will be people who exploit it? at least they found a way to make sure the chars cant be swapped?

oh and as for my intelegence lvl? and the whole duh thing? im not gunna get into a pissing contest? I just want to make my point that people in glass houses should not be throwin stones?

and if anyones sooo anti dupe? sell all the items you havnt found. And then just drop the $$ you make from sellin them? (wouldn?t want dirty $$ would you)
get together w/ other anti dupers.. and play till your hearts content? taint free?.

But the next time you loose a weapon to a thief.. don?t ask me..
the next time your file gets corupted for no aparent reason.. don?t ask me

the other day a friends kids deleated his char,lvl 80+ Hunter.. over 150 hours?
did he whine and moan?
no cause we have the means to get him back all the stuff he lost..
within 2 hours he was lvl 18 ? and had all his old weapons back? cept for that 45%dark dragon slayer.. we never copied it? should have tho?

I myself have no intent to harm others gaming experience? and if I do I am sorry.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

*note please disrequard all spelling errors as im too dum to kno how to use da spellcheckr*

[Ratsmack]

Umm...okay. Well...there's...really nothing worth even responding to there.

[Nokturne]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_frown.gif well if you see my lvl 100 running around with a level 2 mag, know that i build up my mags only to give them to my lower characters http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif the only thing to strive for after lvl 100 is maxed stats, therefore i have to unequip my mag.... but where am i, i'm way off subject.

oh well!

[Takean]

Stixxx...the one thing I have learned in the past with my posts towards Rat is this: He loves an arguement. I am proud to see that you handled that attack in such a mature fashion...as for myself...it took me the hard way to just say "no" to defending myself against his stupid attacks. I believe some people are willing to listen, and have a normal conversation...and some don't. But anyway...here is my view. I think cheating can only go so far. I have games online with my computer such as Counter-strike, Team fortress...and so on. Finding cheats for those are fun...such as the speed hack...but, I have honestly only used it about 3 times. It isn't a fun cheat...at least not to others. People can't hit you because of your speed...and so it almosts makes you invincible. But, I admit to using it a few times and it was fun. As far as PSO cheating...if people want to cheat...as with lvl 999 mags...Game sharks...fine...what ever...but I dislike that idea for one reason...and that is this: When I first played PSO...a sence of mystery was in the game...I had a character built as a weapons dealer...because I would find so many weapons (these weapons now are common...lol)...but since that time...these super rare items are now almost too easy to get from others. Its almost totally destroyed to mystery of the game now and for some...has made going online a burden. Now...don't get me wrong...I am almost positive that a few items that I have are probably dupped...or hacked...or what ever...and I like them...but I do know that the game might have held more mystery to it if it had never had so many cheat problems. But, we all must realize this: you have a point as far as the cheater list you gave in the above post...if you have done those things...you have cheated before. Not to confuse this game with real life...becasue there is no comparison...but, as in real life...you have jerks, and cheaters, and honest people...so too will you have in an online game...why? Because people are human. What can we do about it? Probably nothing...but, we can work around the problems and maybe add each our own little ideas as to handle the issue. Take for example...me. An idea was given to me by a friend to design a clan..(I am not a clan freak...personally, I could care less about being in one...but I said what the hay...I'll try it)...so, I made the website...got a few members to join, and now...I get emails everyday from people that are interested in joining...What I am trying to point out is this: People may not like my website...or the caln itself...but, people can either cry about problems...or face them head on...or with the case of Ratsmack...just be a jerk about them and complain back. Thats my 2 cents and also...just my opinion. Thats called being human...we all have opinions...and I respect yours as well Stixxx.
my site: http://thieves-guild.ontheinter.net[addsig]

[Ratsmack]

Wow, Takean, I never knew you could be such a hypocrite! "Ratsmack's such a jerk! I only was defending myself, I never attacked this jerk! Jerk! Jerk! Jerk!" Now, imagine this, Takean, imagine yourself capable of doing anything but attacking someone in response to someone criticising your rather, and by rather I mean REALLY, stupid idea and then I'll respect you. Otherwise you're a liar and a poor excuse for a leader. Fifty bucks says you get hardly any joining mails and fifty bucks says you can't not drag your flaming me into more than one thread. Just shut up, Takean, you calling me a jerk is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black.

[killerb255]

Well...there's the problem...you *only* see the world in black or white. That alone invalidates your argument. In other words: either you're good or evil, black or white, right or wrong: no such thing as gray?

[Stixxx]

Takean.. thanx for your reply.. you have some valid points..

Killerb225.. so im thinkin you like the whole "there is a grey area" approach...

just a thought, but is a killer in a grey area if he only kills on tuesdays...

or a robber in a grey area if he doesnt use a gun??

D'oh forgot those real world comparisons arnt understood...(not bashin just trying to figure it in gamin terms but still want to make point)

in the case of right and wrong... no there is no grey area...

lets say i PK you and i only take your weapon.. but leave your $$...

or i steal your doublesaber but give you a saber...

sayin there is a grey area to me is the same as saying "its ok if..." or "its only bad if..."

for example killing somone is ok if its in self defence
or
hitting your kids is only bad if you do it for no reason...

call me what you will but my grey area is the non existant space between black and white

[Corran]

I just wanted to say that i don't mind cheaters. Except maybe Pkingers, kinda takes fun out of playing when they do it over and over. As for losing the items, ah well, they come and go. The thing is, when you've logged over 400+ hours, and suddenly your game is screwed up, or hit by BSOD, whatever. What is there to do? I mean really, are you going to just sit there and start all over hoping to get the things back that you lost? Well, not me, i lost my char and just decided to go ahead and cheat. I don't have the time to start all over again, and again, and again. I think that it's important for everyone to have thier own views on these subjects, otherwise we would all be the same person http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif So who says there is really any right or wrong? Anyway, happy gaming to all of you and may your journey be short or as long as you like it to be.

[Stixxx]

heh.. true true..

but sometimes it just feels good being right LOL

[killerb255]

Heh...you're still thinking in black and white, even with what you stated. That's not gray. All you're doing is trying to pour a whole bottle of Captain Morgan and a 2-liter bottle of Coke into a shot glass. It simply overflows. Extremes breed extremes. Seeing only black and white is just too simplistic a way of thinking and are for those who don't want to put the work into taking the best of both worlds and coming up with a "happy medium."

How about these examples:

- You kick the crap out of someone who is trying to kill you (IRL) or your family. You don't kill them, though. Usually, courts rule that as self-defense.

- You shoot someone that's trying to kill you. Usually, this ends up being self-defense, depending on intent. Again, these are gray issues, not totally black or white.

- Your girlfriend has an abortion.

- You are a Republican.

- You are a Democrat.

- Guns are made legal to carry around.

- Drugs are legalized.

Believe it or not, as much as you don't WANT to think that these are gray (oh, how the mind can be one's worst enemy), they are. Abortions, depending on your opinion may be wrong amidst those that are pro-life, but could be right or wrong, depending on the pro-choicer, but ultimately, the issue is gray. Why do you think it's been an issue for so long? The same goes for cheaters: it is relatively gray, depending on what the cheater does to themself and others.

HTH. HAND.

[Nawms]

I have common sense to know that picking up a dollar is not cheating. But really i never cheat but i have read like every FAQ and Strategy guide for PSO in the world. Now what am i huh. I'm a shade of whittish grey. Maybe it not stixxxes fault. Maybe hes just color blind. Beleive me im not all high and mighty. Oh and can anyone tell what u,u,d,d,l,r,l,r,B,A, start does. I just want to know. I won't use it. I think.

[Nawms]

I have common sense to know that picking up a dollar is not cheating. But really i never cheat but i have read like every FAQ and Strategy guide for PSO in the world. Now what am i huh. I'm a shade of whittish grey. Maybe it not stixxxes fault. Maybe hes just color blind. Beleive me im not all high and mighty. Oh and can anyone tell what u,u,d,d,l,r,l,r,B,A, start does. I just want to know. I won't use it. I think.

[Stixxx]

it was a code for an old set of games.. konami games infact...

dosnt work in pso... just makin a reference to cheating waay back then...

as for grey areas... i personally think there are grey.. and once again i was trying to make 1 point, but perhaps i just cant explain it in the right ways

my 1 point is this:

cheaters who think cheating is wrong... need to check themselves.



now for a new point... (makes a new post)

[NewTsumetai]

hey stixx....its not to great to see the world in black and white...u might wanna look at the gray in between...if u know what i mean....someone once quoted..."There is no black and white....only shades fo gray...." think bout that for a little bit...

[Nawms]

I see stixxx.
one time i joined a game where the leader guy said "im not a thief or a cheater." We had a good time together until dark falz were i was using my pan-arms+18 and he took it and ran. when he was running he goes ive been cheating forever. Then he says something like "i know its bad but ive got to make a livin, Right?" (i wish i remembered his namehttp://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_frown.gif

I am really annoyed by thieves and pkrs. So stixx, what should i do about it. Im losin items almost every day. (o and im sorry about the double post, oops)

[addsig]

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Nawms on 2001-04-03 11:27 ]</font>

[Stixxx]

pkers are no more... but as for loosin weps... man thats a tough one... i play w/ weak weps until i kno the person better.. or at least get their card...

then if they steal.. i got ther card... i follo them and harass them...

[Nawms]

How are pkers no more stixxx. What happened. Did sega stop them or.....

[NewTsumetai]

Stixxx....the gray in between can mean many many things...the way i look at it is...people cheat every day...there is nothing u can possibly do about it...i thought i could..but its ablsolutely impossible..EVERYBODY cheats in some way...dont even tell me that u havent used that konami code at some point in time..every one did...lol...or that maybe u havent bought a lottery ticket...or that out of all the items u have...u have not one duped item...my point is that every one is in the gray area...even u...

[Stixxx]

sega stoped the devil/ tech -- just like they stoped the mags

and as for cheatin doodz im a duper i cheat.. but i dontPK nor do i steal...

im on the cheaters side.. heheh my point was and has always been unles your the purest of the pure.. dont jump on the dupers suck bandwagon.. dont jump on the cheaters suck bandwagon...

we'v all done it.. and just because some dont choose to in this game that somehow makes me the bad guy???

i think not heheh

as for the grey areas...i see grey i live grey... i used the term to make a point.. get off the gosh darned grey allready

[NewTsumetai]

shiiit...i dupe too...i see nothin wrong with it...i also see nothin wrong with gamesharks...i mean..if they sell a gs at a fukin best buy...u shouldnt get booted for it thats absolute bullshit..so i guess im on yer side stixxx....