Intelligence and Wisdom.

[_J]

How many times have you had people on PSO condescending others in lobbies? Talking about how unintelligent others are, and implying how intelligent they consider themselves. If you think back to every single one of these occasions you will realize one lovely little fact.


They ALWAYS mistake INTELLIGENCE for WISDOM. Intelligence is your ability to learn. Wisdom is what you KNOW. And they all make the same mistake of confusing the two things - which is lovely because of the irony. They imply they are wiser when infact they are actually the ones saying unwise things by confusing wisdom with intelligence!

Deary me...

: )

[Shattered_weasel]

this comes from the child who posts every where and says

Lame.

[Zarana]

This also comes from a child who is not clear on the meaning of the word "intellectual," which incidentally is completely different than his narrow-minded definition of the word.

"intellect" - the ability to understand and to think in an intelligent way, or the ability to do these things to a high level

"intellectual" - a highly educated person whose interests are studying and other activities that involve careful thinking and mental effort

Strange, those don't sound like your definition. An intellectual is not someone who quickly processes information. In fact, I daresay it could be argued that an intellectual and a wise person are one and the same. But before you go off on another one of your little tangents, here is something you should become acquainted with.

The logical fallacy called "Straw Man," or the process by which someone looks at the argument in terms so simple that they cannot appear wrong. The act of attacking someone on an argument different from (and weaker than) their actual case.

So by using your precious straw man fallacy, you were able to twist the word "intellectual" into the word "intelligence," thereby convincing yourself that you had a point. But in reality, all you did was forfeit. Using fallacies is an automatic forfeit in any debate, an automatic failure on any argumentative paper and just isn't very polite. A fact of which, of course, a self-proclaimed 'educated person' like yourself should be well aware.

Take your fallacies and your losing arguments elsewhere, _J. If you would stop trying to just get a childish thrill and actually obey proper etiquette, maybe people would take you more seriously. And I daresay not hate you as much.

P.S.: No one is going to take grammatical advice from someone who frequently mixes up the words 'your' and 'you're,' so before you make this type of correction you ought to at least practice what you preach.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarana on 2003-08-25 18:26 ]</font>

[Mystil]

Hah. Now I never thought of that. Though I never considered myself smart at all. Only wise when it comes to dealing with drama.

[Shattered_weasel]

On 2003-08-25 18:25, Zarana wrote:
This also comes from a child who is not clear on the meaning of the word "intellectual," which incidentally is completely different than his narrow-minded definition of the word.

"intellect" - the ability to understand and to think in an intelligent way, or the ability to do these things to a high level

"intellectual" - a highly educated person whose interests are studying and other activities that involve careful thinking and mental effort

Strange, those don't sound like your definition. An intellectual is not someone who quickly processes information. In fact, I daresay it could be argued that an intellectual and a wise person are one and the same. But before you go off on another one of your little tangents, here is something you should become acquainted with.

The logical fallacy called "Straw Man," or the process by which someone looks at the argument in terms so simple that they cannot appear wrong. The act of attacking someone on an argument different from (and weaker than) their actual case.

So by using your precious straw man fallacy, you were able to twist the word "intellectual" into the word "intelligence," thereby convincing yourself that you had a point. But in reality, all you did was forfeit. Using fallacies is an automatic forfeit in any debate, an automatic failure on any argumentative paper and just isn't very polite. A fact of which, of course, a self-proclaimed 'educated person' like yourself should be well aware.

Take your fallacies and your losing arguments elsewhere, _J. If you would stop trying to just get a childish thrill and actually obey proper etiquette, maybe people would take you more seriously. And I daresay not hate you as much.

P.S.: No one is going to take grammatical advice from someone who frequently mixes up the words 'your' and 'you're,' so before you make this type of correction you ought to at least practice what you preach.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarana on 2003-08-25 18:26 ]</font>



o god

[_J]

This also comes from a child who is not clear on the meaning of the word "intellectual," which incidentally is completely different than his narrow-minded definition of the word.

"intellect" - the ability to understand and to think in an intelligent way, or the ability to do these things to a high level

"intellectual" - a highly educated person whose interests are studying and other activities that involve careful thinking and mental effort

Strange, those don't sound like your definition. An intellectual is not someone who quickly processes information. In fact, I daresay it could be argued that an intellectual and a wise person are one and the same. But before you go off on another one of your little tangents, here is something you should become acquainted with.

The logical fallacy called "Straw Man," or the process by which someone looks at the argument in terms so simple that they cannot appear wrong. The act of attacking someone on an argument different from (and weaker than) their actual case.

So by using your precious straw man fallacy, you were able to twist the word "intellectual" into the word "intelligence," thereby convincing yourself that you had a point. But in reality, all you did was forfeit. Using fallacies is an automatic forfeit in any debate, an automatic failure on any argumentative paper and just isn't very polite. A fact of which, of course, a self-proclaimed 'educated person' like yourself should be well aware.

Take your fallacies and your losing arguments elsewhere, _J. If you would stop trying to just get a childish thrill and actually obey proper etiquette, maybe people would take you more seriously. And I daresay not hate you as much.

P.S.: No one is going to take grammatical advice from someone who frequently mixes up the words 'your' and 'you're,' so before you make this type of correction you ought to at least practice what you preach.




Thank you for being a prefect test subject to demonstrate rather well what I was getting at. You are so very predictable, thank you. : )

[Zarana]

Yet another sad attempt to dodge the issues. He still doesn't even acknowledge that the word "intellectual" exists, what a shame. _J, it seems to me that every argument you make is based on the ignorant statement that, if you don't know about it, it doesn't exist. Do me a favor and broaden your horizons before you pretend to be right again, okay?

You're playing right into my hand. Everything I say to you just brings out another fallacy. You really are unskilled.

[_J]

Yet another sad attempt to dodge the issues. He still doesn't even acknowledge that the word "intellectual" exists, what a shame. _J, it seems to me that every argument you make is based on the ignorant statement that, if you don't know about it, it doesn't exist. Do me a favor and broaden your horizons before you pretend to be right again, okay?

You're playing right into my hand. Everything I say to you just brings out another fallacy. You really are unskilled.


*smiles* Why, thank you. : )

[Zarana]

Thank you, too, _J. You only prove what I've said all along, that you have no place in a serious argument. All you do upon starting one is the same overly cliche string of unfounded insults (another fallacy, have you looked those up yet?) and one-sentence copouts. When you can't explain something or are wrong, you abruptly change the subject. Yet when you argue with someone you're in the same league as, you don't hesitate to go straight for the proverbial kill. Your cowardice is unmatched, _J.

[_J]

Thank you, too, _J. You only prove what I've said all along, that you have no place in a serious argument. All you do upon starting one is the same overly cliche string of unfounded insults (another fallacy, have you looked those up yet?) and one-sentence copouts. When you can't explain something or are wrong, you abruptly change the subject. Yet when you argue with someone you're in the same league as, you don't hesitate to go straight for the proverbial kill. Your cowardice is unmatched, _J.


If I'm not mistaken, that's flame baiting and a personal attack, when I have made no such attack on you. I suggest you cease, and desist.

[Zarana]

Flame bate? Come now, _J, what is this topic? Seriously. If your objective wasn't to get me to post in opposition, what is it? A shallow argument from a shallow person, I suppose. Shim was right, there's no changing someone like you.

But here's one more little tip for the future. You have no right to talk about unfounded personal attacks, you make them in every single topic. If you're willing to stop being such a hypocrite about it, perhaps it wouldn't happen to you. Before you make accusations of flame bate, I do believe you should cut down your own intake of such topics to something below your usual 90%. Typical case of the pot calling the kettle black, I'm afraid.

[_J]

Flame bate? Come now, _J, what is this topic? Seriously. If your objective wasn't to get me to post in opposition, what is it? A shallow argument from a shallow person, I suppose. Shim was right, there's no changing someone like you.

But here's one more little tip for the future. You have no right to talk about unfounded personal attacks, you make them in every single topic. If you're willing to stop being such a hypocrite about it, perhaps it wouldn't happen to you. Before you make accusations of flame bate, I do believe you should cut down your own intake of such topics to something below your usual 90%. Typical case of the pot calling the kettle black, I'm afraid.


I'm looking for vindication of you flame baiting...but I'm not seeing it...

I do however, see the childish response of;

"But HE does mummy!!"

[Wewt]

On 2003-08-25 18:55, Zarana wrote:
All you do upon starting one is the same overly cliche string of unfounded insults (another fallacy, have you looked those up yet?) and one-sentence copouts. When you can't explain something or are wrong, you abruptly change the subject.
Don't you love the way he becomes the sarcastic kid when he does what he does?

I like the way he semi-believes he is superior to the rest of us "humans...".

[Zarana]

Well, I've defeated him every single time we've ever argued (isn't that right, _J?), so when he feigns superiority it's really just hilarious. But oh well, I've done everything I wanted to do with the little hypocrite. I've proven that he's irrational, uses constant fallacies (every single post) and goes against everything he preaches.

He is a hypocrite, incredibly insecure and overall not worth any of our times. If he ever gets in my way again, he better have something relevant to say. Or at least argue with a hint of etiquette. Because otherwise, I'll do just what I did this time. Crushed his every futile attempt into the ground.

All in all, though, W, I am really amused by the fact that he takes himself seriously. He should realize that he's a walking joke (wow, now *I'm* doing the logical fallacies, the child is rubbing off on me) and that the reason no one likes him isn't the fact that they're jealous of his self-proclaimed 'genius.'

[Dime]

Wow, J's a pussy.

Not that it's a new revelation or anything.

[_Sinue_]

Ignoring everything said above: I've always considered intelligence to be how much you know, and wisdom to be how you use that intelligence. A intelligent person knows quite a lot of facts and truths.. but a wise person knows how they relate in real world applications. It's the difference between book smarts and street smarts. You don't necessarily have to be intelligent to be wise, and similarly, a intelligent person can also be rather foolish.

That's my two Drachmas.

[Wewt]

On 2003-08-25 21:45, _Sinue_ wrote:
I've always considered intelligence to be how much you know, and wisdom to be how you use that intelligence.
I almost agree with you there, except I believe intelligence also includes your ability to learn.

With that said, I don't think people can actually nail down what intelligence is, exactly. There are quite a few opinions on what it is, so I don't think anybody should tell others what it is.

[_J]

Intelligence is your ability to learn, there are no several meanings for it. I think this would explain why Cellisse thinks he is "right" and has "defeated" me, when it was clear to all in the lobby you confused intelligence with wisdom - hence the irritation to the point where you seek me out on here, and PM me. Still, let me guess...the above is not what actually happened and is a "fallacy". I know how much you love that word. : )

[Voodoochild]

An intelligent man is proud of what he knows, a wise man is humbled by what he doesn't know.

[Wewt]

On 2003-08-26 05:12, _J wrote:
Intelligence is your ability to learn
So, if I were to say someone is intelligent, after hearing him/her talk, would that mean the person has the ability to learn a lot? No. It means he or she knows a lot.

[Asuka_chan]

Strange, those don't sound like your definition. An intellectual is not someone who quickly processes information. In fact, I daresay it could be argued that an intellectual and a wise person are one and the same.

Well, there is a difference between an intellectual and a wise person:

Intellectual
2. Endowed with intellect; having the power of understanding; having capacity for the higher forms of knowledge or thought; characterized by intelligence or mental capacity; as, an intellectual person.

Wisdom
2. The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.
3. Common sense; good judgment

Which means that an intellectual person may know many facts and figures... but a wise person knows how to make a good judgement and actually LEARN something, not in the mental sense, but in the more... abstract sense, I suppose. However, a wise person may not have as much "intellect" persay. They may not know as much as the intellectual person in terms of facts and figures, but they may know more about the way the world works, etc, etc. But for the most part, I agree with you, Zarana.


They ALWAYS mistake INTELLIGENCE for WISDOM. Intelligence is your ability to learn. Wisdom is what you KNOW. And they all make the same mistake of confusing the two things - which is lovely because of the irony. They imply they are wiser when infact they are actually the ones saying unwise things by confusing wisdom with intelligence!


As said above, wisdom isn't neccessarily what you KNOW, it's your ability to make good judgements and the like. So...I suppose this could be considered irony as well, couldn't it, _J? You've confused intelligence and wisdom as well, in a way.

[Inu_Ranma]

Furthermore, Intelligence does have 4 distinct definitions, only one of which is the ability to procure knowledge. One of the other, more commonly used definitions is 'information,' plain and simple.
You are not, J, more reliable than a dictionary.

[Wewt]

On 2003-08-26 10:44, Inu_Ranma wrote:
You are not, J, more reliable than a dictionary.

I am http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

rar.

[Inu_Ranma]

Can I borrow you for my next term in college, then?

[Wewt]

Only if you pay for my flight to California and give me a place to stay :l

[Asuka_chan]

I guess this thread is dead, since _J is gone.

[Sagasu]

It depends on how really gone _j is, is he really gone, or just haunting our thoughts forever.

[Asuka_chan]

Or is he going to come back with a new account.

[Sagasu]

I wonder if I'll take it to far and get banned someday.... and if I actually would make a difference...

[Wewt]

"Looks like I'm getting banned again"
- _J

[Inu_Ranma]

Well...it's in Cupertino, which is a nice area of Silicon Valley...and I know of a park across the street with ducks. Ducks are tasty, right? Will that work? ^_^

[Sagasu]

On 2003-08-26 15:14, WWWWWWWWWWWW wrote:
"Looks like I'm getting banned again"
- _J



Again! LOL*

[Wewt]

Inu_Ranma: Ducks are the breed of bird I hate the most, second only to pidgeons. So no deal, you suck. :l

Sarunakai: Yeah. I wonder who he or she was before...

[Monomate]

i really wish i knew who _J was the first time...oh well...he'll be back...of that i have no doubt...

btw...i've always considered an intellectual as a person who thinks and processes on different levels, (people on higher levels, people on 'different' or 'abstract' levels, and people like me who look at everything on several different levels). You don't necessarily have to be intelligent to be intellectual (although it certainly helps).

Intellectuals don't have to have great intelligence, all that matters is their ability to comprehend, and think through things and apply things. Those without common sense need not apply...

ah i love saying 'need not apply'...much fun...

ok, if you want to try and shoot me down, be my guest, i may learn something from it, and you may too. Just, don't insult me.

ok...b'bye now!

[Gestiv]

Thank you, Zarana, for saying everything I was going to say. You saved me a lot of trouble by doing that.


Edit: I just found out _J got banned. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gestiv on 2003-08-26 19:26 ]</font>

[Inu_Ranma]

What about squirrels? Squirrels are edible too! PLEEEEASE!

[Wewt]

Only if you can catch the little lightning-fast monsters.. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Asuka_chan]

If there are squirrels here...this is on it's way to Fresh Kills.

[Wewt]

On 2003-08-27 06:43, Asuka_chan wrote:
If there are squirrels here...this is on it's way to Fresh Kills.


Do you smell more like squirrels or ducks?

[Omni-SqwirL]

On 2003-08-27 07:19, WWWWWWWWWWWW wrote:


On 2003-08-27 06:43, Asuka_chan wrote:
If there are squirrels here...this is on it's way to Fresh Kills.


Do you smell more like squirrels or ducks?


I'm heerrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeee





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Omni-SqwirL on 2003-08-27 11:02 ]</font>

[ramzaman]

Intellectual
2. Endowed with intellect; having the power of understanding; having capacity for the higher forms of knowledge or thought; characterized by intelligence or mental capacity; as, an intellectual person.

Wouldnt intelligent be the action or trait of being an intellectual.

I think they mean the same thing, its just that the endings must change depending on the context in which they are used.

[DarkShinjaru]

Thank you, Zarana, for saying everything I was going to say. You saved me a lot of trouble by doing that.

Lies.

[Zarana]

Intelligence is your ability to learn, there are no several meanings for it. I think this would explain why Cellisse thinks he is "right" and has "defeated" me, when it was clear to all in the lobby you confused intelligence with wisdom - hence the irritation to the point where you seek me out on here, and PM me. Still, let me guess...the above is not what actually happened and is a "fallacy". I know how much you love that word. : )


Haha, he still denies that the word 'intellectual' exists, and now he's banned. I think there's a lesson to be learned through all of this. Don't avoid the issues or you, too, may end up like poor _J here. Out of a hobby. ... Not that his prior hobby ('annoy people to compensate for real-life shortcomings') was very conducive to this board.

And _J, if you're reading this, you're absolutely right that you've committed another fallacy. In fact, three. Let me list them for you, perhaps you might enjoy some reading material while you're banned.

1. "Slothful Induction" - the conclusion of a strong inductive argument is denied despite the evidence to the contrary

Which shouldn't be news, you use it every time you're wrong.

2. "Post Hoc" - because one thing follows another, it is held to cause the other

Hence your deluded conclusion about intelligence and an intellectual.

3. "Argument from Ignorance" - because something is not known to be true, it is assumed to be false

Your assumption that I am male just because I have never told you otherwise. This is also sexism, but that's not a fallacy, so I decided I would call you on ignorance. _J, do you assume that everyone with superior arguing skill to yours is a male? Do you assume that it takes a male to defeat you? Geez, you're every bit as narrow-minded as I've been stressing all along.

Enjoy your ban.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarana on 2003-08-28 10:47 ]</font>

[Miller]

LOL Zarana i enjoyed reading the little scuffle with _J very entertaing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh well another flamer gone, http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Wewt]

Flamers are good to have around...

[Monomate]

apparently (and according to zarana) i'm the exact opposite of _J (always good to know) because i immediately assume that everyone on my level or above is female, (because most males aren't anywhere near my level, no matter what age...)

ahhh...but that was pointless...

i enjoyed the whole argument though...it was quite entertaining...

[MAGusZ87]

hey Zarana, like an earlier post, intellects IS how much and how well you learn (after you get past all the different types of learning) and wisdom is common-sense, morality, and logical thinking
but i agree w/ u more than _J

[Zarana]

An intelligent person fits _J's definition, an intellectual does not. Someone who does well on their SAT's and ACT's is not by any means an intellectual. The difference is that someone with intelligence is highly adept at quick thinking, while an intellectual is someone who is highly learned.

Granted, intelligence is a means by which someone can become an intellectual, but it's not an end in itself. An intellectual is, for all intents and purposes, nearly identical to a wise person.

Just to basically repeat everything over and over, if you are intelligent it does not automatically make you an intellectual. Intellectuals are educated, wise, everything _J is trying to say an intelligent person is not. It's all about doing productive and thoughtful things with your pre-established intelligence. Something which _J flatly denies and reverts back to the very basic definition of a semi-related word.

Intelligence is to intellectual as wheel is to bicycle, I suppose.

Edit: Just adding another definition of the word.

"intellectual" - Endowed with intellect; having the power of understanding; having capacity for the higher forms of knowledge or thought; characterized by intelligence or mental capacity; as, an intellectual person.

If that's not exactly what I meant when I called _J a would-be intellectual in the Lobby, I don't know what is.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarana on 2003-08-28 19:52 ]</font>

[Mystil]

And this post will probably be deleted http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif And this topic locked, and I will probably be banned for siding with J. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


On 2003-08-25 21:43, Dime wrote:
Wow, J's a pussy.

Not that it's a new revelation or anything.



I'm trying to figure out why YOU aren't banned.

It's amazing really. Sometimes I like it here, and sometimes I don't. For this is just one of two topics that man has made that in my opinion, warrented good discussion. And he had a point in his post, he was provoked flat out, what do you expect? It's fun coming to 'dead horse' always ready to defend yourself against an ENTIRE 'cult' of people who just wanna blow off PSO steam. Understanding that this is a 'rant forum' but where is the respect? Notice I don't flame everyone like I use to? There are ways to talking to people and there a ways of dealing with people without shoving your psuedo insults down peoples throats(yes I'm guilty of this too. Challenge me on that very issue and I will be glad to discuss my ways with you. In a sensible manner http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif). I looked past his dark rude exterior. As I did for alot of you. *reason is stated below*

(though I get surprized for every nice advise I get when have one of my 'opening up and letting out feelings' threads, cause I'm so used to seeing vulgarity here)

(wonders if this is getting through to them. Probably not,)

And yes I grew a respect for him, cause I can relate to him on many issues(especially his thread about his parents).

In anycase I'm not against his banning cause it was well warrented. But this gangbanging that goes on here is getting stupid.

Ok lock away and/or flame me in the process. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Nawms]

He should have been around a little longer, liven this place up. theres like a jillion members yet no one posts. I dont get it.