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Cynosure_Zen
Sep 6, 2003, 05:45 PM
Why am I nationalist? Because this is my country, my home, the place that provides me with the right to do pretty much any damn thing I want to with minimal interference from anyone else. This is a country where through hard work and determination, I can have pretty much anything I want. Outside of this country, I wouldn't have the same rights or freedoms that I do right now. I'm a nationalist because I was born in the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the history of mankind and I want my country to stay that way. I wake up everyday proud to be a citizen of the United States of America because that's the place to be. If you ain't from the States, you ain't worth shit. Got me?

I don't have this idealized view of the world like the rest of you people (well, some of you, not all). Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Why? Because people, once in power, want to maintain that power. And the only thing that can overcome power is more power. I don't view things as they should be, but rather, I view things as they are. News Flash: Politicians lie. Doesn't matter where they are from, they're all the same. You just gotta learn to see through the bullshit. Never take what a politician says at face value because he's lying. Politics is the art of deception and lying. Plainly put, it's full of bullshit. Grade A, FDA Approved Bullshit.

Any person with half a brain can see that the United States went to war to expand its own power and influence over the Middle East. Oh my god, how DARE the United States make moves to expand its own power? How dare the United States act in its own best interests? How dare the United States screw over an organization that was designed to check its power? How dare the United States flip the bird to two former allies that are trying to make their own power play with the European Union? So the question isn't "Why should America always benefit', but rather, why SHOULDN'T America always benefit? Countries have no honor, they have no respect for other people, only for themselves. Alliances aren't the marker of friendship and comradery, but rather a means to an end.

People lie. Politicians lie. Governments lie. Why? Because the truth, more often than not, is more detrimental to one's purposes than anything else. They shouldn't lie, but we're not dealing with idealism here, we're dealing with reality. The simple reality is that this world is about power: Who has it? Who can get it? Who can keep it?

Given that the United States has the power, can get the power, and is taking steps the keep the power, this world is about the United States. Is it some sort of ethnocentric view of the world? Damn right, it is. And just for the record: If I was French, I'd be a French nationalist. If I was German, the same. If I was a Madagascarian, I'd be a Madagascarian nationalist. I don't give a fuck. I'ma rep my country because it's MINE. Don't forget the shit.

Bottom line? The United States is the shit and the rest of these countries don't weigh enough to fuck with it.


Whew, I just had to get that off my chest.

Wewt
Sep 6, 2003, 06:40 PM
On 2003-09-06 15:45, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
Why am I nationalist? Because this is my country, my home, the place that provides me with the right to do pretty much any damn thing I want to with minimal interference from anyone else. This is a country where through hard work and determination, I can have pretty much anything I want. Outside of this country, I wouldn't have the same rights or freedoms that I do right now. I'm a nationalist because I was born in the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the history of mankind and I want my country to stay that way. I wake up everyday proud to be a citizen of the United States of America because that's the place to be.
You should have just left it at that. That was a fine thing to say. I had respect for you, until you blabbed on with this:


On 2003-09-06 15:45, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
If you ain't from the States, you ain't worth shit. Got me?
This is why a lot of people don't like America. The rest of the world have to deal with that kind of thing too much. It's the whole attitude of saying "we are #1, and you better know it".

Personally, I don't really have a problem with it, can't really explain why I would have or not have a problem with it. I just don't.



On 2003-09-06 15:45, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
Given that the United States has the power, can get the power, and is taking steps the keep the power, this world is about the United States. Is it some sort of ethnocentric view of the world? Damn right, it is. And just for the record: If I was French, I'd be a French nationalist. If I was German, the same. If I was a Madagascarian, I'd be a Madagascarian nationalist. I don't give a fuck. I'ma rep my country because it's MINE. Don't forget the shit.

Bottom line? The United States is the shit and the rest of these countries don't weigh enough to fuck with it.


Whew, I just had to get that off my chest.

This world is not about the United States.

You have a very strange way of representing your country... to each his own I guess. Although I should let you know that it's being done in a very negative way.

I agree with quite a few things you said, but it's just nationalism annoys me. The only time I care for it, is when it comes to sports.

P.S. The USA is only a fraction of the world. I don't think anybody would want to even face a world vs the USA war scenario...

RoninJoku
Sep 6, 2003, 07:33 PM
So if the united states jumped off a cliff would you jump after it? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

RoninJoku
Sep 6, 2003, 07:34 PM
DELETE= oops double post! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2003-09-06 17:36 ]</font>

Da__Ad__Man
Sep 6, 2003, 08:33 PM
This is crap ( if i can say that ).

Cynosure_Zen
Sep 7, 2003, 12:34 AM
That's right, I think my country is the best in the world and that's my right to think that way. You don't have to agree and quite frankly, I don't give a shit if you do or not. I don't think the rest of the world is worthless, but at the same time, I don't think the rest of the world has the right to tell my country what it can and can't do when they don't have the power or influence to back it up.

Understand this: Respect is only given when respect is earned. A lot of these countries either haven't earned our respect or have lost it given their recent actions. Same thing with tolerance.

There's no plague, simply a realization by the American people that a lot of countries wish harm to the United States. If you aren't with us, then you must be against us. Otherwise, you'd jump on the correct bandwagon. Oh well.

TheDarkRaven
Sep 7, 2003, 02:15 AM
Evil Republicans....

Gwilym
Sep 7, 2003, 02:48 AM
You don't have to agree and quite frankly, I don't give a shit if you do or not.

So why the hell did you post it on a forum? If you had to 'Get it off your chest' you could of written on a piece of paper, or go partake in some Nazi activities. Luckily enough, narrow minded people like yourself are in the minority.

Voodoochild
Sep 7, 2003, 04:42 AM
On 2003-09-06 22:34, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
That's right, I think my country is the best in the world and that's my right to think that way. You don't have to agree and quite frankly, I don't give a shit if you do or not. I don't think the rest of the world is worthless, but at the same time, I don't think the rest of the world has the right to tell my country what it can and can't do when they don't have the power or influence to back it up.

Understand this: Respect is only given when respect is earned. A lot of these countries either haven't earned our respect or have lost it given their recent actions. Same thing with tolerance.

There's no plague, simply a realization by the American people that a lot of countries wish harm to the United States. If you aren't with us, then you must be against us. Otherwise, you'd jump on the correct bandwagon. Oh well.

Are you 14 years old or something like that? The US needs the rest of the world more than the rest of the world needs the US. For ex export and import. US have nothing other countries needs(but the want it),but the US needs stuff they dont have. The only thing why you can export is because some things are cheaper from the US.
And if your land is so good,why dont it use their own oil,they been the largest buyer of iraq oil for the last 20 years.
Its people like you thats makes your countrie hated.
Btw do you injoy reading of germany in the 1940?
You sure sound like it!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voodoochild on 2003-09-07 02:44 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voodoochild on 2003-09-07 02:45 ]</font>

Wewt
Sep 7, 2003, 07:01 AM
On 2003-09-06 22:34, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
I don't think the rest of the world is worthless, but at the same time, I don't think the rest of the world has the right to tell my country what it can and can't do when they don't have the power or influence to back it up.
I like hypocrites. Read:


On 2003-09-06 15:45, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
If you ain't from the States, you ain't worth shit. Got me?
Got me?



On 2003-09-06 22:34, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
Understand this: Respect is only given when respect is earned. A lot of these countries either haven't earned our respect or have lost it given their recent actions. Same thing with tolerance.
Okay, that has to make me say: You fucking idiot.

Don't you realise the respect for the United States from the international community is deteriorating all the time?

You're the one that needs to understand that respect is earned, not given. Being the last remaining superpower doesn't mean you get respect.



On 2003-09-06 22:34, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
There's no plague, simply a realization by the American people that a lot of countries wish harm to the United States. If you aren't with us, then you must be against us. Otherwise, you'd jump on the correct bandwagon. Oh well.


Even more black and white thinking. In this case, it's a very bad thing. If somebody isn't my friend, it doesn't mean they are my enemy.

You're just a blind patriot.

Allos
Sep 7, 2003, 07:46 AM
Guys, get off of his back. He's just voicing his opinion, which none of us have to agree with. He probably shouldn't have said that the US is the shit and so forth but still. I'm a patriotic American too (although I have more respect for our allies).


or go partake in some Nazi activities

And what the fuck is your problem?

Wewt
Sep 7, 2003, 09:05 AM
On 2003-09-07 05:46, Allos wrote:
Guys, get off of his back. He's just voicing his opinion, which none of us have to agree with.
This is PSOW. This is not the place where you can say whatever you want and nobody will say things back.

As for the Nazi comment, shouldn't have been said, but I do see what Gwilym is trying to say...

RoninJoku
Sep 7, 2003, 09:47 AM
I dont mean to criticize... You have the right to your own opinion... But this is the line that pissed me off:




If you aren't with us, then you must be against us. Otherwise, you'd jump on the correct bandwagon. Oh well.



I believe WWWWWWWWWWW explained it pretty well...

Bradicus
Sep 7, 2003, 10:04 AM
last night, i watched the bowling for columbine DVD..... Ummmm.... go USA?



-canadian



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bradicus on 2003-09-07 08:04 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bradicus on 2003-09-07 08:05 ]</font>

Inu_Ranma
Sep 7, 2003, 11:57 AM
I find it to be humorous when I see a person in a forum and can instantly tell whether their complete education has come from the textbooks of lower education.

Here are some ways in which America is NOT the best:

The average grade reading level in the United States is currently 7th grade for High-School graduated citizens. This is also steadily declining. Mark, also, that a great percentage of US citizens do not finish High School, and so their average reading level is markably lower. In Japan, the reading level is far past college after High School. In UK, it is 12th, solid. In South Africa, it is eleventh. See what I'm saying here yet?

The average number of murders in LA is one per hour, when last I checked. That was a while ago, so it may have gone up. This is a decent percent of the US's murders, but also keep in mind that Switzerland, where all grown citizens are required to own and maintain full-auto assault rifles (Yeah. Sorry gun control people. That's simply not the problem) and their murder rate is wither one or two per year, on average. That's right. They've had entire years without slayings on record.

The number of hate-crimes in the US is double that of ALL of Northern Europe put together.

The US Government has broken more treaties in the last six years than the rest of the world combined.

The US imprisons a higher percentage of its population than any other nation, and spends more on average on each of those prisoners than any other nation. The average spending in prisons is around 32,000 dollars per inmate per year. To give you an idea, the average wage of an American is about 36,000 dollars per year, and that's with all of the super-billionaires factored in, so it's a bit skewed. Why are people who kill and maim given more luxury than almost half of the working men and women in the US? God Bless America.


So Yeah. If all of those things are super good to you, then go you, maybe you should reserve your cell in San Quentin right now and save everybody the trouble. Meanwhile, the TRUE patriots are out there trying to make things better instead of bitching about how everybody hates us. The TRUE patriots, like the patriots in the history books did, try to rectify their relationships with other nations and make sure that not only is America a better place, but that the world is a better place for America being there. They don't, like you, sit and go through Aesop's age-old 'Sour Grapes' routine, saying 'they hate us? Well we don't need them.'

There are any number of factual errors in your statement, too, but other people have already started picking those apart, so I'll leave you with that thought.

Gwilym
Sep 7, 2003, 12:15 PM
I do hope you realise Nazi is a shortened version of Nazionale, translated into National.

TheDarkRaven
Sep 7, 2003, 05:29 PM
Keep on rocking in the free world. -Neil Young

Omni-SqwirL
Sep 8, 2003, 12:52 PM
On 2003-09-07 09:57, Inu_Ranma wrote:
Here are some ways in which America is NOT the best:

The average grade reading level in the United States is currently 7th grade for High-School graduated citizens. This is also steadily declining. Mark, also, that a great percentage of US citizens do not finish High School, and so their average reading level is markably lower. In Japan, the reading level is far past college after High School. In UK, it is 12th, solid. In South Africa, it is eleventh. See what I'm saying here yet?

The average number of murders in LA is one per hour, when last I checked. That was a while ago, so it may have gone up. This is a decent percent of the US's murders, but also keep in mind that Switzerland, where all grown citizens are required to own and maintain full-auto assault rifles (Yeah. Sorry gun control people. That's simply not the problem) and their murder rate is wither one or two per year, on average. That's right. They've had entire years without slayings on record



I'm a big republican, but the United States does make me want to vomit all over myself. So much crap that can be fixed but no one really cares. America is not better than other countries, but I like it here anyways...it's home -_-

Oh yeah, I heard or read somewhere that over in Europe (I think Germany?) has legalized alcohol, and they don't have near as many drunk driving incidents as we do here...

KodiaX987
Sep 8, 2003, 01:11 PM
Canada. World leader in being just north of the United States.

-----------------------

Although this dude's sense of nationalism could be inspiring, I suggest a jolt of the electric chair will get him off arrogance mode.

KodiaX987
Sep 8, 2003, 01:12 PM
On 2003-09-08 10:52, Omni-SqwirL wrote:

Oh yeah, I heard or read somewhere that over in Europe (I think Germany?) has legalized alcohol, and they don't have near as many drunk driving incidents as we do here...


Wait; I'll play the devil's advocate on this one. Take in mind that USA is a big country with a shitload of a population. So statistically, nearly everything, good and bad, will be in higher numbers than other countries.

Which is why we should switch aim to stats per capita! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Voodoochild
Sep 8, 2003, 01:50 PM
Well the US has higher crime rate than eu,dosent matter how you count.But South Africa has even a higher crimerate.

RoninJoku
Sep 8, 2003, 07:22 PM
Once upon a time, long ago, a bunch of misfits from various regions in europe came over to the new world to seek out an easy way to make money for themselves... And these selfish dirty people, the cream of the uh... sewers =/...., are the kind of people that make up America today... Of course there were exceptions. I do respect this country however, and all of the good people who made it work. Were lucky that there were those few people to keep our country in line. But how many of these people are there today?

Morfos
Sep 9, 2003, 12:04 AM
I think my country is the best in the world

If you aren't with us, then you must be against us.

Blind you are.

http://www.politicalstrikes.com/.images/ps830.jpg


Protesting wars is as American as apple pie. And calling the protestors "unpatriotic" is as fascist as Nazi Germany.

A quote from Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials:

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

So when conservatives call liberals opposed to the Iraq Invasion "unpatriotic", or "anti-American", or say that they hate America... Those conservatives are merely showing how detestable and loathsome they are by happily following in the goosesteps of the Nazis.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Morfos on 2003-09-08 22:06 ]</font>

RoninJoku
Sep 9, 2003, 02:36 PM
I now partially blame American nationalists for this...
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=65366&forum=11&4
But now I can see why you feel the way you do... -__-

Cynosure_Zen
Sep 9, 2003, 04:31 PM
*outright refuses to read that short and improperly formatted post which is probably just more Bush-bashing propaganda, but has to put some idiot named WWWWWWWWWWWW in his place*



Okay, that has to make me say: You fucking idiot.

Don't you realise the respect for the United States from the international community is deteriorating all the time?

You're the one that needs to understand that respect is earned, not given. Being the last remaining superpower doesn't mean you get respect.

You can't read can you? I never said the United States wanted nor needed the respect of the internationatl community, only that respect isn't given, it's earned. It is my contention that these countries have either lost or never had our respect in the first place. You can disagree, but that's pretty much all you can do.


Even more black and white thinking. In this case, it's a very bad thing. If somebody isn't my friend, it doesn't mean they are my enemy.

That's the way you think, I obviously think another way. If you aren't supporting me, then you are indirectly hindering me from my goal because it's obviously easier to accomplish something with more help. If you aren't a part of the solution, then you're obviously a part of the problem. This 'shades of gray' shit is just more relativism bullshit.


You're just a blind patriot.

Really? Why am I a blind patriot? Because I actually support my country for doing what it believes it is in its best interests at any given time? Why is it that when people decide to support their country and government that they have to be blind patriots, but when people who do nothing but try and tear their country down are never allowed to be criticized without screams of McCarthyism (a liberal myth, but another debate entirely) or censorship?

A blind patriot is a person who supports his country no matter what, with no knowledge of the situation whatsoever. I don't fall in that category. I always research the situation and learn as much as feasibly possible and then make my decision on whether or not said action is a good idea or not. Because I know what I'm dealing with before I throw my support behind something, I'm not looking at the situation blindly, so obviously I can't be a blind patriot.

Oh, and as for the hypocrite remark, it's amazing how people can't see context. One was obviously a serious remark while the other was a jab to get underneath the skin of some people who get overly emotional with their anti-Americanism.

Inu_Ranma
Sep 9, 2003, 05:19 PM
You think...that McCarthyism was a myth?

...


Flamebait. You've lost all credibility with me, at least. I can't, now, picture you as being more than, say, ten years old. You have no grip on reality. There are STILL film directors, to take an example, who suffered from the blacklist. Reparations were only given to them about 5 years ago. The only conclusion I can come to is that you were not old enough to watch and/or understand the news when that happened, or you are a flamebaiter. Either way, considering all of your statements, I have lost any desire to dignify any more of your posts with a response. If you want to learn about McCarthyism, go ahead and check a Microfiche reader at your local public library. You can check up on the newspapers of that time, there. It was real and a very big deal.

Wewt
Sep 9, 2003, 06:50 PM
Do you care if a very, very large chunk of the 6 billion people HATE America? Would you appreciate 6 billion people that respect it?

I'm sure you'd love the world to love America, as you're an American. If you seriously do not care one single bit about the rest of the world, then sure, ignore this and forget about my comments about respect. I doubt that you don't care.

Things aren't always black and white.


On 2003-09-09 14:31, Cynosure_Zen wrote:
That's the way you think, I obviously think another way. If you aren't supporting me, then you are indirectly hindering me from my goal because it's obviously easier to accomplish something with more help. If you aren't a part of the solution, then you're obviously a part of the problem. This 'shades of gray' shit is just more relativism bullshit.
Now this is more selfish thinking. Obviously, you only care for things that are beneficial to you at this moment, so you will ignore me saying it's selfish thinking. Out of curiosity, what do you think America's ultimate goal is?

Seriously, would you consider all of the countries that didn't help America in the war in Iraq as your new enemies? It'd be incredible sad if you did. Just how cynical are you?

Your country conjured up so many hypocritical bullshit statements in the buildup to the war in Iraq. These are reasons why I call you a blind patriot, or should I say blinded patriot. A lot of these statements were proven to be wrong, and many are still yet to be proven to be true. Iraq having WMD's for example.

I don't like making references to WWII, but I have to right now. Hitler took actions like the things you said in your first post. To expand Germany's power. This resulted in, well, you know exactly how that went. America even called Hitler evil. America, as you say, are doing somethign similar, to expand its power. Obviously not in such a brutal manner, but just another way.

America leads the world in Democracies. America, as the last remaining superpower, should be setting the examples. Not defying the UN. Not willingly go to war without consideration of the UN, which it helped create, to maintain world peace, among other things.

Obviously, you won't really understand what I am saying, but I want let you know what I think anyway.

As for the hypocrisy remark, it's funny how you say that. You're able to say people can't see things that are obvious to you, yet you disagree with that I said about black and white thinking.

By the way, this is a very extreme case I want you to consider: Would you still be proud to be American if America ever did something like Nazi Germany did?

One more: ever think you could be disgraced to be American?

Cynosure_Zen
Sep 9, 2003, 10:38 PM
You think...that McCarthyism was a myth?

Yes, I do. Read the book Treason by Ann Coulter and you'll see how McCarthyism is just a bunch of liberals lying about how they supported America's enemies during the Cold War. Oh, and before you dismiss Ann Coulter, I'll have you know that each and every claim in that book is backed up with tons of evidence and isn't pure speculation as the left would like to have you believe.

I'd go more into it, but I'll be making a McCarthyism thread soon and we can have it out there.


Do you care if a very, very large chunk of the 6 billion people HATE America? Would you appreciate 6 billion people that respect it?

While it's certainly not preferrable to have people hating my country, I don't particularly care. It's preferrable for everyone to love and respect, but I'm not willing to have my country appease these countries for something we don't necessarily need.


Out of curiosity, what do you think America's ultimate goal is?

I believe America's ultimate goal is the maintenance of its lone superpower status in the realm of economics, military, and politics. As far as I'm concerned, the ends justify the means.


Seriously, would you consider all of the countries that didn't help America in the war in Iraq as your new enemies?

If these countries are not willing to fight along side us to destroy regimes hostile to our interests, it is a silent, if not outright support for these regimes. If they support these regimes, then they obviously support things hostile to the United States. If they are not with us, they are against us. So to answer your question: Yes. If you are not on America's side, you are it's enemy. There are of course, different degrees, but they are an enemy nonetheless. A country such as Iraq is a high-tier enemy, which is why we invaded and destroyed Hussein's regime. A country such as France, however, is more of a diplomatic enemy. Not a country we would invade, but it's certainly not a country we can trust on any level.



Your country conjured up so many hypocritical bullshit statements in the buildup to the war in Iraq. These are reasons why I call you a blind patriot, or should I say blinded patriot. A lot of these statements were proven to be wrong, and many are still yet to be proven to be true. Iraq having WMD's for example.

If the United States was wrong, so was the UN, so was France, so was Germany, and pretty much every other Western nation on the planet. Iraq was proven to have stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons circa 1998 when UNSCOM inspectors were ejected. To believe that these weapons didn't exist is to essentially believe that Saddam Hussein committed political and national suicide for no reason whatsoever.


don't like making references to WWII, but I have to right now. Hitler took actions like the things you said in your first post. To expand Germany's power. This resulted in, well, you know exactly how that went. America even called Hitler evil. America, as you say, are doing somethign similar, to expand its power. Obviously not in such a brutal manner, but just another way.

My wish isn't to expand America's power, but rather to maintain it. Nazi Germany was inherently a racist state that believed in a master race. Nazi Germany sanctioned the wholesale slaughter of Jews. Does the United States believe in a master race? Does the United States round up an entire race of people and murder them by the thousands and millions? No.


America leads the world in Democracies. America, as the last remaining superpower, should be setting the examples. Not defying the UN. Not willingly go to war without consideration of the UN, which it helped create, to maintain world peace, among other things.

Simply because we are the superpower does not mean we have to take orders from an anti-American organization like the United Nations which does NOT look out for the best interests of America. We went to war to enforce what the UN REFUSED to enforce. We tried to get the UN onboard and they refused to sit and do nothing. We didn't defy the UN; The United Nations defied itself. The true mark of a leader isn't to do what everyone else believes is popular, but rather to do what he/she (or in this case, it) believes is right -- regardless of everyone else's opinions. A leader at times has to make a decision and that decision may not always be popular. Being a leader does not mean doing what everyone else wants you to do. Leading means taking the initiative when no one else can or will.


Would you still be proud to be American if America ever did something like Nazi Germany did?

It depends. If I believed that it was in America's best interests to do so, then yes. If I came to the determination that it wasn't, then no.


ever think you could be disgraced to be American?

Probably not. I am who I am. Part of who I am is American and I don't think I could ever be ashamed or disgraced to be who I am.

Inu_Ranma
Sep 10, 2003, 02:38 AM
I need clarification here.

Do you or do you not think that the McCarthy hearings and blacklists happened?

If you think (and you'd better) that they happened, do you or do you not think they were valid?

If you DO think they were valid, I hold my previous opinions, because even ultra-conservatives like Bush have realized this. (There technically was no 'Black List.' This has been proven.)

If you do not think that they were valid, then I withdraw my previous opinion.



Okay. That being in deliberation, I shall address other points, for now. I'm going to play both sides of the board, here, so don't get mad at me, everybody, when I do.

One major correction, which is about a mistake that I see made so much that it gets sickening after a while. America is in NO way, shape, or form a Democracy!

The form of government that is currently operative in the United States of America is a 'Democratic Republic,' which was invented for the purposes of the US, and is still decently effective. It is becoming less and less effective, though, as the educational level of the populace rises on a mostly steady curve.

Another error that really gets my goat is the misuse of "it's." The proper use of "it's" is a contraction of two words: It and is. The word with one uses in a possessive sense is "its." Notice the lack of an apostrophe.


That nice little break from political debate having happened, here are a few more questions for everybody. In fairness, I shall answer them myself as well, but I'm trying to ask them in as much of an unbiased fashion as I can.

1: If America's power is not expanding at the level of the other super-powered nations, do you see it as relatively contracting?

(I personally do in an economic sense, but not in a military sense.)

2: If so, do you see it as appropriate to mark those nations as our enemies to ensure that we are more powerful than they are?

(I do not believe that this is something that should be done. There are more ways to gain power than the military way. What's more, a gain in military power (the winning of a war) is almost always followed by a decline in economic powers (see the large depression that followed WWI and the small depression that followed WWII.) and disillusionment.)

3: Why do we need to be powerful?

(This is pure logic. We need to become powerful so that we do not stagnate, economically and otherwise, which would be devastating to our population.)

4: Do you believe it to be the job of the U.N to support the US in everything it does?

(I do not. That is actually almost the opposite of the reason why the UN was created. The UN was created specifically to make sure that no country chooses to take the law into its own hands simply because there is no international law and to make sure that there is an international law to be enforced.)

5: Do you like McDonalds or Arby's better?

(This is the hardest question yet, for me. You see...on one hand, Mcdonalds has really awesome value. It's the only place that I know of where I can still get a hamburger for like 79 cents (plus tax), albiet a small one. Arby's, on the other hand, has roast beef, which, aside from Cat Girls, is one of my two fetishes.) http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Either way, I hope this was a nice departure from the norm.

-Inu



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Inu_Ranma on 2003-09-10 00:39 ]</font>

Wewt
Sep 10, 2003, 07:16 AM
Since you could never, ever, be ashamed to be an American, then I believe it's pointless of me to carry on. As you will be proud to stand by your country no matter what your government decides to do.


On 2003-09-10 00:38, Inu_Ranma wrote:
4: Do you believe it to be the job of the U.N to support the US in everything it does?

(I do not. That is actually almost the opposite of the reason why the UN was created. The UN was created specifically to make sure that no country chooses to take the law into its own hands simply because there is no international law and to make sure that there is an international law to be enforced.)

This is what got me angry about the war the most. The US and UK took the law into their own hands, ignoring the UN. It's also ironic that it happens to be two of the main players in the UN that decided to do this. So, the next time the UN tries to get a small country to, say, stop mass-murdering people, that country can ignore the UN, and say the US and UK didn't listen to the UN, so why should we?

Obviously, that is childish thinking, but a lot of governments are childish in my opinion.

KodiaX987
Sep 10, 2003, 09:25 AM
Another problem: Blair joined the Iraq war because he too wanted Saddam out and since Bush happened to walk by, well, there you go. Unfortunately for him, he's getting the worst of the blame; everyone wants him off the minister's chair. As for Bush, well, nothing happened in his case. More people hate him but the fucker is still sitting on his chair and doing his presidential duties as if nothing's happened. Blair was a pawn in the whole game and he got 0wned before he knew what hit him, even though he was just a follower.

Wewt
Sep 10, 2003, 12:44 PM
On 2003-09-10 07:25, KodiaX987 wrote:
Blair was a pawn in the whole game and he got 0wned before he knew what hit him, even though he was just a follower.


Another reason why I hated the whole thing even more. I live in the UK, we got dragged into it, even with a very large percentage of the population against war, Blair still went ahead. Sure, I guess you can blame Blair, as it was his choice for going, but it wasn't as if America played no part in dragging us in.

Cynosure_Zen
Sep 10, 2003, 02:40 PM
The UN is an organization who refuses to back its own resolutions and if it had its way, would still keep Saddam in power with ineffective sanctions. Furthermore, trusting the United Nations with an important battle in the war on terror is the stupidest thing we could ever do. The United Nations is not, nor has it ever been, in the business of fighting terrorism. Most people seem to ignore the fact that terrorist states are members of the UN and hold prominent positions.

The only thing we can hope for is that the US government doesn't fold and turn over control to this fundamentally anti-American organization.

Gwilym
Sep 11, 2003, 10:37 AM
Alright I have a pair questions for you, Cynosure, momentarily breaking away from the topic at hand...

If you had to be killed, for the interest of America, would you accept it?

If every country in the world had to destroy America, for the rest of the Earth's interests, how would you feel?

If every country pulled out from trading or communicating with America, what do you think would happen?

Voodoochild
Sep 11, 2003, 11:12 AM
Most people seem to ignore the fact that terrorist states are members of the UN and hold prominent positions.

The only thing we can hope for is that the US government doesn't fold and turn over control to this fundamentally anti-American organization.

The US did help Saddam Hussein with weps in the war with Iran, when they did see that he was going to win the war,they turned their back against him.So you might say they did create him to be a US hater.

I Cambodia they did give funds and weps to Pol Pot so he could take the power,and begin to kill all the people who he didnt like.

They did even help Usama(Osama) Bin Laden with money.He did some building jobs in the US.He was a good allied, until the US turned their back against Iran.

The Talibans did get their weps from CIA in war against the USSR(CCCP).

So maybe the UN is the only way to fight terrorism. No single country should try do this by their own,there will always be a risk that it will be more terror groups.
We need to stand united in these things.I dont have anything against the US my self.But you need to know a lil bit more before you you write the things you do.Even your country makes mistakes and so do the rest of the world too.
I hope that we dont need to see more terror in world.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voodoochild on 2003-09-11 10:21 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voodoochild on 2003-09-11 10:22 ]</font>

ChokingVictim
Sep 13, 2003, 12:01 AM
i also consider myself to be a proud american... however...(big however)



the US gov't foreign policy has been a nightmare for a good portion of its history. even going back to WWII.. hell, the only reason our forebears waited so long to get involved was because they hoped hitler would wipe out those 'damn commie reds' before they started to deal him...4-7 million jews and 4-6 million other factions like gypsies, intellectuals, dissidents, homosexuals, disabled..etc later, plus the beating france and the UK took, they still only got involved after pearl harbor. although still a tragedy, the event was not an attack on US soil, but a strategic military post. there's the whole vietnam mess which in itself is self explanatory. there are the countless US backed brutal regimes being helped out which have beared some mighty bitter fruit in the past 3 years as noticed by the atrocities of the iraqis, afghanis...etc

the US has this awful habit of making friends with the wrong people to deal with people just as bad. the obsession over trying to combat communism by supporting brutal regimes also is one of the more absurd things our government has been responsible for. the US has shown an absolute disregard for international law, most noticeably seen by how it handled the whole nicaragua situtaion in the 80s.

the US tried to overthrow the nicaraguan gov't by aiding rebels in the region. when the US was convicted by the court of violating intl law, it used it's own veto power in the UN to thus make the law a moot point, the only other country to side with the US being that of the client state israel, and honduras i beliece which was holding a major grudge against nicaragua. if you don't count the obscene amount of US foreign aid given to israel (and although i am highly critical of israel for their scores of UN resolutions violations i am NOT anti-semitic), the amount of foreign aid in itself is nothing. now, personally i blame french and british colonialism in the middle east area post ottoman empire with the Balfour treaty and whatnot for foestering so many problems in the mideast, but the US has done great things to keep things chaotic... like how they stood by while kurds and shi'ites were slaughtered, knowingly, but hoping saddamm would have the same enthusiasm while dealing with the iranians.



democrats have just as bad a track record as republicans do, before anyone wants to label me some pinko lefty. clinton was foolish enough to allow some 10 million to die by bombing a medicine plant in sudan going on bad intelligence it was a weapons plant.


let's not even get started on the whole slavery and raping of the native americans here. contributions to helping pillage south america, africa, and asia should however be noted.


damn fucking straight i'm a proud american. and i'm horrified of the things that have been done assumingly in my name, ashamed of some of the things today being done in my name. america has long been a home to some of the stranger thinkers, doers, dreamers and as such we have fostered some brilliant people. that same spirit still lives today. but when the 'can do' attitude we hold so dear turns to 'can fuck over' and arrogance, that's when we've lost our way.


i'm proud enough to want better out of this country personally... for americans should be america's harshest critics trying to truly make it the best we so want it to be.



christians who were unsatisfied with the church once turned the cross upside down out of protest, which in itself was a holy thing being that of cross of st. peter. when i see an american flag upside down, i don't think 'anarchist' or 'america hater'. i think of a dissatisfied american who wants better from his/her country.

NKOTB
Sep 13, 2003, 12:18 AM
I have just now read this thread for the first time and feel rather obligated to reply myself.

Most of the people who have already replied are people whom I never agree with, or get along with (Morfos and WWWWWWWWW come to mind). However, I do agree with them in this case that you are an idiot.

Your original post was not even patriotic, it was just moronic. It's threads like this which make people distrust and make fun of conservatives.

Just F'in think and don't run your mouth off ok. Honestly, the thought has crossed my mind that you are actually very liberal, and only made this post to make conservatives and Bush supporters look stupid. If that was your effort, YOU WIN!! If it wasn't, then God help us all because there is an idiot among us.

Wewt
Sep 13, 2003, 12:09 PM
On 2003-09-12 22:18, NKOTB wrote:
Most of the people who have already replied are people whom I never agree with, or get along with (Morfos and WWWWWWWWW come to mind).
Let's kiss and make up http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

Gestiv
Sep 13, 2003, 02:29 PM
Cynosure reminds me of _J. Even when he's beaten he still continues to argue.

Symbios
Sep 13, 2003, 04:31 PM
lol

Inu_Ranma
Sep 13, 2003, 04:31 PM
Like I said. Flamebait. Next, he'll be saying that the lunar landing was liberal propaganda.

Shattered_weasel
Sep 13, 2003, 04:50 PM
I think that America is just going through a hard time. Most of all they are having a bad time because evryone hates us. Why do you hate US. Why all of us. Why do we have to suffer because of some bad decisions that our leaders have made.

I have heard people from all over saying America is stupid. But yet none of those people live/lived there ever. They only say what they hear in tabloids and what not.

I live in America im not ashamed of it either. What i am ashamed of is our Leaders.

So don't go stereotypical on us because every one in there is not the same.

Uncle_bob
Sep 13, 2003, 05:18 PM
On 2003-09-13 14:50, Shattered_weasel wrote:
I think that America is just going through a hard time. Most of all they are having a bad time because evryone hates us. Why do you hate US. Why all of us. Why do we have to suffer because of some bad decisions that our leaders have made.

I have heard people from all over saying America is stupid. But yet none of those people live/lived there ever. They only say what they hear in tabloids and what not.

I live in America im not ashamed of it either. What i am ashamed of is our Leaders.

So don't go stereotypical on us because every one in there is not the same.



Hell yes.

Inu_Ranma
Sep 13, 2003, 05:27 PM
The problem there is that it's a two way street. Some Americans also choose to stereotype the rest of the world, if only through the generalization that they (we) are the most powerful and best country in the world and that nobody else matters. These extremists may not be a large number, or even a majority, but they are stubbornly and ridiculously vocal, as Cynosure has shown us. In order for stereotypes and stupid generalizations to end, someone needs to stop making them, and eventually break the cycle. Don't prove the stereotype of hateful, arrogant Americans right. Disprove it. Show the world how civilized some Americans are.

Shattered_weasel
Sep 13, 2003, 06:34 PM
i r civalizized rmemeber chet

NKOTB
Sep 13, 2003, 07:43 PM
I used to play Civilization 2 all the time.

Wewt
Sep 13, 2003, 11:10 PM
Civilization games were soooooooo good. At the same time, incredibly underrated.

Inu_Ranma
Sep 14, 2003, 12:14 AM
I concur, your excellency! ^_^

Cynosure_Zen
Sep 14, 2003, 03:09 AM
On 2003-09-12 22:01, ChokingVictim wrote:
i also consider myself to be a proud american... however...(big however)



the US gov't foreign policy has been a nightmare for a good portion of its history. even going back to WWII.. hell, the only reason our forebears waited so long to get involved was because they hoped hitler would wipe out those 'damn commie reds' before they started to deal him...4-7 million jews and 4-6 million other factions like gypsies, intellectuals, dissidents, homosexuals, disabled..etc later, plus the beating france and the UK took, they still only got involved after pearl harbor. although still a tragedy, the event was not an attack on US soil, but a strategic military post. there's the whole vietnam mess which in itself is self explanatory. there are the countless US backed brutal regimes being helped out which have beared some mighty bitter fruit in the past 3 years as noticed by the atrocities of the iraqis, afghanis...etc

the US has this awful habit of making friends with the wrong people to deal with people just as bad. the obsession over trying to combat communism by supporting brutal regimes also is one of the more absurd things our government has been responsible for. the US has shown an absolute disregard for international law, most noticeably seen by how it handled the whole nicaragua situtaion in the 80s.

the US tried to overthrow the nicaraguan gov't by aiding rebels in the region. when the US was convicted by the court of violating intl law, it used it's own veto power in the UN to thus make the law a moot point, the only other country to side with the US being that of the client state israel, and honduras i beliece which was holding a major grudge against nicaragua. if you don't count the obscene amount of US foreign aid given to israel (and although i am highly critical of israel for their scores of UN resolutions violations i am NOT anti-semitic), the amount of foreign aid in itself is nothing. now, personally i blame french and british colonialism in the middle east area post ottoman empire with the Balfour treaty and whatnot for foestering so many problems in the mideast, but the US has done great things to keep things chaotic... like how they stood by while kurds and shi'ites were slaughtered, knowingly, but hoping saddamm would have the same enthusiasm while dealing with the iranians.



democrats have just as bad a track record as republicans do, before anyone wants to label me some pinko lefty. clinton was foolish enough to allow some 10 million to die by bombing a medicine plant in sudan going on bad intelligence it was a weapons plant.


let's not even get started on the whole slavery and raping of the native americans here. contributions to helping pillage south america, africa, and asia should however be noted.


damn fucking straight i'm a proud american. and i'm horrified of the things that have been done assumingly in my name, ashamed of some of the things today being done in my name. america has long been a home to some of the stranger thinkers, doers, dreamers and as such we have fostered some brilliant people. that same spirit still lives today. but when the 'can do' attitude we hold so dear turns to 'can fuck over' and arrogance, that's when we've lost our way.


i'm proud enough to want better out of this country personally... for americans should be america's harshest critics trying to truly make it the best we so want it to be.



christians who were unsatisfied with the church once turned the cross upside down out of protest, which in itself was a holy thing being that of cross of st. peter. when i see an american flag upside down, i don't think 'anarchist' or 'america hater'. i think of a dissatisfied american who wants better from his/her country.



While I don't agree with your point of view, since we both have the same goal in the end, I can respect what you say.

Except....


pearl harbor. although still a tragedy, the event was not an attack on US soil, but a strategic military post.

ChokingVictim, Hawaii was similar to what Puerto Rico was now - a commonwealth. Anyone born in Hawaii was an American citizen, and for all intents and purposes, it was American property. In any case, an attack against Hawaii was an attack against the United States. An attack against our military forces is an attack against the United States.

ChokingVictim
Sep 15, 2003, 08:28 PM
devil's advocate to my above statement about all the great thinkers this country has produced... with the good comes the bad. we need remind ourselves of the good and the bad to make the best out of our republic.


book review in today's usa today (mcpaper i know but after i'm done with the NY times, and local paper it's all i got to read) about eugenics. this was basically the road-map as it were for hitler's aryan ideals. eugenics uses racial hygiene concepts, leading to sterilization laws in 33 states in the early 20th century. hitler's scientists worked closely with those into american eugenics. financial support by the rockefellers and carnegie institution aided nazi doctors.
albeit our nation was much more openly racist at the time, (for instance, lovecraft is one of my favorite authors, but i have problems calling him a period racist) this is just another thing that pops up in my head on how much the common citizen needs to play a part in this country. more people use illegal file sharing than voted for president in the last election in america. media conglomerates have served to dull us by the many opiates they provide. if i may bastardize an HL mencken quote by summarising that it is the wise man who sees the injustice around him and seeks to make those around him just as angry at said injustices as he is.

we american's need be in touch with our rage, need learn of what's truly going on with our elected leaders.


now to offset the above for something completely different-
nobody, but nobody drives creativity in music like america... jazz, hip hop, rock and roll, techno, punk (although that one is debatable)... america is the originator... we're the one who starts the shit, the rest of the world just tries to keep up and outdo us. and to all of the people who are gonna respond with the sad situation of corparte clear channel media playing such crappy songs on the radio here and exporting them out as to respond to my claims. after seeing a fair amount of the world, i'd take the crappy american pop music over the crappy pop music the rest of the world plays anyday. some of my favorite bands are british, irish, french, mexican, spanish... don't get me wrong. but no beatles exist without elvis, no stones without robert johnson, no pink floyd without well...pink and floyd. jazz is a completely pure american genre, hip hop is arguably the only other pure american genre. original music occurs throughout the world, no doubt... but america just tends to have the best conditions for breeding it, and turning it into another mutated beast.

if there's one thing about america i would say yields the most good for the bad... it's out music. going out of your way to listen to it is the only tricky part... can't let it find you, for you must find it.

Inu_Ranma
Sep 16, 2003, 12:18 AM
I have to disagree on one point in the previous post. Jazz and rock are not purely American genres. Neither are, consequently, their spawn genres (like punk).

Both Jazz and rock have a major rhythmic founding in African rhythm and culture, and, later for Jazz, the culture of the slaves in America.