Common Courtesy...

[ElizaBluefull]

Well, my friend was using Eliza all this week, and she sent me something very disturbing. Usually people will always revive another if they die, right? Well, she tp'd into the seabed and got megidded by a Deldepth. A HUnewearl named Donna (lv 160) refused to revive her because she accused my friend of cheating and refused to revive her just due to having a Psycho Wand and a Devil's Wing mag. I tekked that darned wand myself after a purplenum FOnewearl gave it to me. And that Devil's Wing I traded for, I traded for its cells offline. Cost me a lot of meseta and a few rares of my own too. I am legit as legit can get that I know of. If I find out I am using a dupe, I'll not use it online. That darned armor I have was heck to get in a trade offline too. My friend normally uses a FOnewearl that is in VH right now on my memcard. But I find it offensive that she refused to revive her. Sometimes people can be jerks, but I always revive them. I told my friend to do the same this week while I was studying for and taking some finals. This may be moved to dead horse, but I am ticked. She was real hurt by this. What does the everyday PSO player do about reviving the fallen? Do they do it unconditionally, or try to persecute the legit that have a lot of good items? Just because someone has a lot of good items does not make them a duper or one who uses dupes. I know of legit players who have real nice rares that get accused of cheating all the time. And I also know legit lv 200s who get the "you haX0red!" stuff too. It's getting ridiculous. Do to others as you would have them do to you. If they die, I bring them back even if they are total jerks. I expect the same.

[Jack]

I've had that recently. I was in a game with two people, and they asked about my Soul Banish. I told them it was a dupe, because it is, and they both ignored me for the rest of the game. They even ran off to cast Shifta and Deband, leaving me without it. Bloody mongs.

[shinto_kuji]

yup yup yup... reviving is just the right thing to do. i've had people accuse me of cheating countless times >.< usually the people who say someone cheats because they have good items is either:

A) very paranoid... i had a friend who thought people cheated when they used items that he himself even had O.O;

or B) they can't find anything themselves (either from not hunting enough or having a bad rare id like bluefull) so they think stuff is alot rarer then it actually is... those people get annoying ._.

[Alighieri]

Sounds like plain human nature to me. What you get from others IRL, you can expect the same even in a game. But leaving someone hanging just becouse of a HUNCH that he/she uses dupes is ridiculus to me. This legit/hack/dupe thing is no reason to forget about common sense. Personally, I`m fully legit but I would not think twice about reviving a fallen char - even if he/she is not.

[unknown2226]

Hey I know Eliza.... yeah those people can be mean at times.

I am the Fonewm who uses also a legit psycho wand remember?? My char name is rakk....

Anyway people always accuse me of having a dupe p wand....

[ElizaBluefull]

I think it sometimes can be out of anger that they didn't find as many rares or just don't have as many good ones. My general rule of thumb is this concerning characters. If anyone wants to do something to their own character, then let them. I don't necessarily have to game with them. But if they die, I'll revive them at least and help them get out of a jam. But when people do things to other people, like refuse to revive a teammate and leave them to return to P2, FSOD people, and the like, that's the big problem. But yes, legit psycho wands are incredibly rare, and I am glad I had a good friend who traded it to me untekked. (She was a purplenum too.)

[PaleKid15]

people who just assume it's a dupe aren't paranoid. It's just common sense. since below 10% of the people who play pso are legit. It's unfair, yes, but if you want to be mad at someone, blame hackers/dupers.

[badbitz]

actually....i have noticed that the number of people that dont accept dupers and nonlegit people are going. PSO is starting to have quite the legit community. Including me, of course -_-

[satoshi1]

I always revive someone if they die, that is if I have enough TP to cast a reverser (on my FO) or if I have enough moons (on any char) to do so, if not I usually make a pipe for them to come back through, it's just common courtesy. Do unto others as you would want done to you.

[Red_Death4052]

I'm almost tired of saying this: legit weapons dont have to suck. That person wasnt sure if the p wand and mag were legit, they just assumed that they were. Theres no proof its dupe, they just assume for the worst. This brings up another thing: just because a weapon has been duped a lot doesnt mean every last ****ing one is a dupe. It is possible to find a p wand, sealed j, and its possible to make a double cannon(which im trying to do with absolutely no luck). If you wanna keep thinking thinking everythings a dupe, go ahead. I hope you have fun being a stubborn prick.

[NoxiousOne]

Perhaps if a low-level character was using these weapons I can see why someone would believe that they were duped but you can't be sure. My level 25 ranger has a Red Handgun, Mechgun, and Scorpio, but they are all legit. I simply gave them from one of my characters to the other. He also has a Diwari mag which my Hunter also raised. None of this would make me or anyone else a hacker/duper.

[Alighieri]

Either way - this problem will always be present (unless every player will become legit - and it`s quite hard for me to belive it...)

[Deus-Irae]

wow. i have a very similar story.

last week i was in a lobby, just hanging out. some guys starts talking to me about how he has no friends on PSO.

he says he's bored, so i offered to play a game with him.

well i soon found out why he had few friends...

i must not have been paying the best of attention to our game, because i died twice from Megid in the caves.

he revived me the first time, but the second time he just let me lay there while he killed wave after wave of baddies.

so i warped back to P2, and asked him what the hold up was.

his response: i was just gonna wait untill i cleared the room.

me: why wait?

him: get some scape dolls. come prepared.

me: thats what moons are for. its all about good team play.


i dont think he quite got it. :/

i dont like to play with people who dont play as a team. if they wont revive, they are not playing like a good team player.

i will revive someone 99% of the time. even if they are obvious dupe users. if im willing to play with them, then they deserve to be revived, no question. the 1% is reserved for people who are acting WAY out of line. (this is rare)

common courtesy is something that needs to be utilized in every day life. online and off. unfortunately it's not used in real life as often as id like.

[Hrith]

It happens from time to time that I forget to buy some moons since I do not carry any offline. In this case, and if someone dies on me, I'll pipe right away to buy some and not kill any monsters w/o him/her.

Once a player couldn't wait for me to buy moons and come back so he pressed "YES" on his/her red screen, I gave him/her 500k Meseta and 2 stars for his MAG ; he just said "wow, you're kind, thanks"

Therefore I think the one not prepared wasn't you, Deus-Irae, but him.

[ILLI]

Heh.. Some People on this game are idiots.. plain and simple.. I have many examples..

Last night me and my irl gf were playing.. she has made lots of friends on pso and so forth.. well we seem to have this problem that every guy she meets on pso thinks she should be playing with them exclusively... Last night for about the 3rd or 4th time since we have been playing PSO together one of her "friends" comes into the room and starts bashing me because im her BF.. Guys on this game take chattiness and niceness as flirting.. Its weird to me.. I feel sorry for girls playing this game... Ecspecially if you dont want that kind of attention...


As for the not mooning thing... what an azz.. i dont care if you havent killed a thing in the room cause some uber hacked HU is using a 300 bkb you still moon.. common courtesy.. people like that should be playing offline solo if they want to save money on moons.. lol

[anwserman]

Actually, depending on the situation if my team dies, I do kill of the rest of the enemies, or at least whittle them down, to the point where I don't get killed casting reverser.

Like the other day, my team got owned with a pack of Merlans and Indi Belras. I got the Merlans to follow me, I casted Jellen and Zalure and I killed them, then I focused my attention on the two belras. I casted both Jellen and Zalure on them, and then I revived my team.

[_Sinue_]

That would be why I carry Moons - even on my FO's. Reverser is one of my least used spells. Maybe in Vhard it's ok - but in Ultimate things move too fast for it to be used as the primary way to revive people. Expecially since they usually die on the front lines, and it requires me to get into the thick of battle to save them.

I usually try to revive - but if someone strikes me the wrong way, I tend to be an ass to them anymore. There was a HUmar in my game the other day using the standard BKB and TJSword. He was maxed at lvl 101 (No mag). He didn't do anything particularly wrong - expecially since my friend was playing a HUcast who was far outpacing him by using a set of Mechguns and killing things before the poor HUmar could even get in the room. Maybe it wasn't so much the fact that the HUmar was a cheater.. but that he was a bad cheater. I can at least have repsect for someone who cheats and still knows all the ins and out of the game to maximise his potential. This guy was a waste, and a very inexperienced player.

I ran into a room of like 8 Ob Lillies.. and kept a perfect distance ahead of him. I stop in the middle of the room, and wait for them to rear back. Just before they let loose with Megid, I dodge out of the way.. and sure enough he comes barging in and before he even knows what's going on he gets hit from all directions by big purple death.

Me and HUcast just left his corpse to rot.

[Maverynthia]

I told them it was a dupe, because it is, and they both ignored me for the rest of the game.

If you admit to using a dupe, your on your own. I don't like cheaters and I don't want to play with them. I would ignore you too.

However if you look like you could have obtained it legally, then I'll pay attention to you...

IE, if you have an unsealed J-sword a top MAG and are level 5...forget that!!

[Jack]

On 2003-12-13 14:38, Maverynthia wrote:
If you admit to using a dupe, your on your own. I don't like cheaters and I don't want to play with them. I would ignore you too.

That's no excuse for twattish behaviour though. I continued to fulfil my role in the team, providing support with healing and resurrecting them when they were KO'ed. I did this for a while without any thanks from them. In any case, why should it matter? Unless I'm killing things in one hit (IE with that blasted 300% Dark Black King Bar), it's no different to a using a weapon I found. It should really only matter in Battle mode.

[shinto_kuji]

actually it DOES matter.. to alot of people. we want to be legit, that means that you even helping kill enemies is enough to put us off because it means we got help from a cheater... the point is, if you cheat... at least tell people when you join a game and ask if its ok for you to play with them.

[Deus-Irae]

the flip side of the coin is:

when you make an open game, makes sure is says "legit" in the title.

if a duper comes in the game, and you dont want them there, ask them to leave nicely.

when i play in open games, i expect dupers. as long as they play nice, we can still have a good time.

if i didnt want to play with them, id lock a game, ask them to leave, or leave myself.

no need to be rude!

(this coming from the God of Hellfire http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif)



oh ps. the guy in my story above was a lv 178 Racast. he coulda spared a second in Ult Caves to use a moon...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Deus-Irae on 2003-12-13 22:12 ]</font>

[ADE]

"I tekked that darned wand myself after a purplenum FOnewearl gave it to me."
-----------------------------


Probably after she duped it. Nobody in their right mind would give away a legit Psycho Wand. You obviously have no idea how much time it takes to get one. I think the person had every reason to believe it was a dupe.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2003-12-14 00:31, ADE wrote:
"I tekked that darned wand myself after a purplenum FOnewearl gave it to me."
-----------------------------


Probably after she duped it. Nobody in their right mind would give away a legit Psycho Wand. You obviously have no idea how much time it takes to get one. I think the person had every reason to believe it was a dupe.



I would, lol. HP drain when casting + boost to techs I don't use + weapon type I don't care for = Dust collector. Halved TP cost sounds great, until you start spamming Grants and start losing HP right and left. Meh, no thanks, Trifluids aren't -that- expensive.

People who don't revive = teh annoying. Had one of those in a game recently with my baby HUcaseal. De Rol Le, me and the RAmarl die in one hit. HUmar is L20 and can survive. He doesn't moon either of us and lols. Whee!

Anyone who doesn't moon my FOmar can burn, he always has a good 300k meseta on him because his bank is full from doing ET. XD

I always revive, because I'm a nice person like that. Even if you're the biggest dick in the world, I'll still haul your happy ass back from death.

[_Sinue_]

I'd give away a Psycho Wand too. I think I did once too.. but I wasn't sure. I never held onto it long enough to tekk it. It was a cane wep offa Mil Lilly. Thought the guy said it was a Purplenum game too. Anyhow, they're far too popular a wep, so I'd be accused of being a duper constantly.. not to mention that PSO needs variety and with the "Uber wep" mentality, it's been sorely lacking. Hundreds of weps and armors in this game, and yet you only ever see a handful of em and any character lvl 1 to 200.

That sucks.

[Hrith]

On 2003-12-14 02:03, _Sinue_ wrote :
Not to mention that PSO needs variety and with the "Uber wep" mentality, it's been sorely lacking. Hundreds of weps and armors in this game, and yet you only ever see a handful of em and any character lvl 1 to 200.

That sucks.
Amen.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kefka on 2003-12-14 08:52 ]</font>

[ADE]

Everyone's all like "ooh, I'd give away a P-wand."

Ok, let's see you first GET ONE. Then after taking all that time to get it, have the balls to give it away. Until then it's all talk and no walk.

I know for a fact that if I found one I wouldn't even let my best friends use it.

[ElizaBluefull]

Allow me to specify who the Purplenum FOnewearl was: She is one of my best friends IRL, and she gave it to me offline. She didn't like it because of the negative effects of it, and I know for a fact she doesn't dupe. She gave it to me when I was around level 97, offline, a good while back, and told me that it would be priceless when I did get there. She had a Dark Bridge that she preferred over it (which seems strange to me due to random negative status effects from it, but it does boost grants and megid). That is why she gave it to me. I haven't seen her online yet, but I do thank her every time we've talked since I first logged in to PSO for that thing. If it was a dupe, I wouldn't use it online. And yes, I know how rare they really are. I trust her completely. If anyone's online and doesn't want me to use it, I switch to my Caduceus that is legit also, a RAcaseal named tb-304v2.1 gave it to me, and it was untekked and legit.

[kingmurp]

There is a fine line between being legit and being a jerk. You claim to be legit, but won't play the game the right way. Someone bends the rules, they get bored with the game a lot quicker. If people don't revive despite the jerkiness of someones nature, thats just worst than people saying stuff, duping, or hacking. I did it once and I felt guilty as hell. It's just a game, don't like someone, leave the game, start a new one, lock it.

[Buuyon]

On 2003-12-14 08:31, kingmurp wrote:
There is a fine line between being legit and being a jerk. You claim to be legit, but won't play the game the right way. Someone bends the rules, they get bored with the game a lot quicker. If people don't revive despite the jerkiness of someones nature, thats just worst than people saying stuff, duping, or hacking. I did it once and I felt guilty as hell. It's just a game, don't like someone, leave the game, start a new one, lock it.


now thats common sense...ok it seams legits are the bigest bunch of anooying ass holes in this game...they hate/dont trust ANYONE!...why is this? cuz thay are jealous that they cant use those weapons or be that lvl...i am 100% legit and can give a fuck les if the biggest hacker was in my room hacking infront of me...im not gonna shit my self saying "OMFG HAXXXZZOOROZ!!!!1111!!!!11!!!1! YOOOR 200 NOT LEGIT NOT LEGIT NOT LEGIT!!!!!!GET OUT YOU SUXORRRIZORSZZZZZZZ!!!" its fucking annoying...im acused a duper for using red sword...yes red sword...that 10 star found in vhard...i have lots of good weapons that im called a duper for having...if some one comes into my room and uses a tj sword ill be like wow dupe...then they say its legit...i laugh but dont not rev them...

[muff]

On 2003-12-14 06:56, ADE wrote:
Everyone's all like "ooh, I'd give away a P-wand."

Ok, let's see you first GET ONE. Then after taking all that time to get it, have the balls to give it away. Until then it's all talk and no walk.

I know for a fact that if I found one I wouldn't even let my best friends use it.



What if you found it in an open game, without looking for it.

The key to this game is team playing, just like finding items. I will always share my items that I find. Infact most of the time, we just call our weapons because we know the drops.

I bet your the type of person that would help do runs with someone for an uber-rare, then "steal" it when it drops.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

[heyf00L]

Donna is my character. To understand my actions you need some background information. I remember that game because it was very upsetting to me. I believe I named it "Legit Ep II" or something with Legit in the title. During the game I had over 10 people join, of which 1 person was legit. The others admitted to being cheaters and only joined to try to piss me off (which worked well) or said "I don't actually dupe things, I just use dupes so I'm not a cheater". After arguing for about 30 minutes with 1 guy I finally drove them all out of my game. Then 2 more people join. A low level ranger with Guld Milla and a Fo with the Devil Wing and PWand. Well what do you think I assumed? Well that drove me over the edge so I just decided to quit.
I'm sorry if you really are legit, but can you really blame me? That guy that argued with me tried to make me out to be the bad guy. He said I shouldn't be so proud about my legitness and that I shouldn't just play with legits only. I was just like "This is how I want to play. Cheaters insult my hard work." Well I'm sorry, but I didn't know that playing legit was the wrong thing to do. Excuse me! After that attack he started accusing me of cheating. They weren't helping me and I was working my way through Cbed alone. They said no way could a legit solo Cbed. I assured them I found everything I use and then the guy said since I was in a game with cheaters that made me a cheater! Whatever d00d! Anyway, yeah, I was supper pissed off.
So we were both wrongfully accused of cheating. I see that you understand how upsetting that is. I'm not trying to say that I did the right thing, but just trying to explain why I did it.

[PlatypusMaximus]

I remember once I was starved for something to d, so I joined a Legits only game. Shortly after a HUmar joined using mega-dupes (TJ, BKB etc) but I think he didn't know they were dupes. Anyway, my colleagues were slagging him off etc, and refusing to help him, and when we got to Falz (I guess he was a glutton for punishment) one teammate said she'd revive him if he died, then mailed me saying she wouldn't. I thought they were just being out and out jerks (the other guy didn't seem too bad, although he was kinda asking for it by staying). During the fight I revived him saying 'I thought it was *****' (I forget his name) After Falz, they left and I apologised to him for their behaviour.

Some people really do need to calm down, their are nice people who dupe, and gits who play legit.

[ElizaBluefull]

After reading your explanation, I do understand where you are coming from, but I just leave after reviving if people die, and I can usually spot dupers. I do still think that unwritten revival rules hold true. Even if someone is the most vile person I know I still use Reverser just because of my principles. It doesn't make people extreme jerks if they don't revive (it's just annoying to lose meseta as a FO), but it is common courtesy in my book. I wasn't playing at the time or I would have had a better explanation with a keyboard, as my friend was just trying to get me some levels while I prepped for final exams (and she had no keyboard).

I told her, "Join legit games as you won't experience grief from non-team-oriented play and dupers will catch heck for entering them." My standard equipment is legit, but it is also the favorite stuff of the dupers. And it was not easy to find or acquire all of that stuff! Especially the Pwand! I was lucky to get it in an offline game after a delbiter dropped it in seabed (especially cause my friend Tara didn't want it)! I had seabed unlocked and we wanted to megid stuff. If anyone wants to know the full pwand story, I'll post it in dead horse sometime. I do apologize if my original post caused some flak to you, Heyf00l. But from what my friend told me (and she was very upset), I ended up changing the way I play the game. It did bring up a lot of interesting discussion about the general state of PSO these days.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ElizaBluefull on 2004-01-15 11:48 ]</font>

[Cheep]

On 2003-12-13 14:38, Maverynthia wrote:

I told them it was a dupe, because it is, and they both ignored me for the rest of the game.

If you admit to using a dupe, your on your own. I don't like cheaters and I don't want to play with them. I would ignore you too.

However if you look like you could have obtained it legally, then I'll pay attention to you...

IE, if you have an unsealed J-sword a top MAG and are level 5...forget that!!


I have to use dupes on my ramarl...I can't find good guns! Do you honestly want me to use a red hand gun and ruby bullet in ult!!! Sorry about that. I would be legit if I could. If I tried being legit now, I coulndn't keep up. Then no one would want to play with me... It's hard being a pinkal and a ramarl, but good for the force I made! The only good rares I found are for forces. I still have a hard time playing with my dupes. I don't really approve of hacks like mags, pointless hack rings, and hack stats. I don't know how to dupe and I don't plan on learning. I'm sorry if you still think I'm a bad person, I just don't have enough time to look for rares. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cry.gif

[Kurosawa]

There's any number of good, legit, easily found rares that are superior to many hacks and certainly close enough that you don't have to stoop to the level of cheating. I have a couple of really strong rares, the best of which is a Soul Banish with 45% native and 30% dark, but except for that I mostly use various Vulcans I've found along the way. There's plenty of them in either ULT or VH Ruins.

If you have a Yellowboze friend who is generous, you can get them to do some Ruins runs with you and find the dreaded Needle too, but as a RAmaral, you don't really need it like RAcaseals and RAcasts do.

The DC V2 was so tough that although cheating is always wrong, I could almost accept the "I got no good weps" excuse, but ST bumped the difficulty down enough on this version that that arguement is just not valid anymore. And that's why they did it.

[Armok]

2 things I've noticed in this topic before i begin

A, your friend Eliza was using a dark bridge a weopon u cannot obtain at all legitimatly.

B, Buuyon, Red sword aint found on VH and is REALLY hard to find even on skyly 50 runs plus so dont go on about it being easy to obtain to me. I won't even risk losing mine online so keep it banked (took me 10 million exp to get). Sorry just a rant cos bitter about number of AF runs had to do.

Anyway on topic I play totally legit using flowens frame, sheild and vahuna mag. For weopons I use the range of basic 9* vulcans and calibers I've found. Now this may seem dum but its really fun for me because at lv 151 my hucast has beaten everything and has a riduculasly high base atp and hp so doesnt need these suba weopons. Also on a side note I can level most rooms before the 300% bkbs can even get within touching distance if wanna annoy ppl.

Now in online games i will play with anyone as long as its not TTF (which is boring as can be after a while). On forest i will (and have) revived ppl even if there is a rare foe present (played with ra other day and mooned him when got killed by Hildetour). Being bitter and not reviving fallen team mates in my views is FAR worse than using any kind of dupe even 300% one. I'm personally sick of the bitter legit ppl going on about how it degrades the trade system and invalidates all their hard work (IE they cannot show off cos everyone else has better stuff already).

Oh and when asked if I'm legit (happens alot when u dont have anything good equiped at my level) I say No.

And an acknowlegdement to Kurosawa for being right DC ver 2 was so ridiculasly hard compared to this version u should be glad you dont need to use a 300% weopon to do damage at all ;P

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Armok on 2004-01-16 04:24 ]</font>

[ElizaBluefull]

Well, since the time I posted about that Dark Bridge, both my friend and I found out that the Dark weps were hacks. She switched to Summit Moon and ditched the Bridge, as FOne megid penetrates anyway. The general reason why I began this thread was to discuss the unusual circumstance of legits who look like dupers and the general state of common courtesy concerning revival of the fallen in PSO these days. But the discussion has definitely helped me to learn much about the online nature of things, as though I am not new to the game (300 offline hours), I have only been online for about two months. Thanks for the useful info.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ElizaBluefull on 2004-01-16 06:05 ]</font>

[opaopajr]

i reserve the right for tit for tat.

i only hold back my revs if the person is being a tiresome jerk. otherwise i'm lenient. jerks come in many flavors, so be an equal opportunity discriminator of sucky people.

i personally think opening open rooms called "legit only" is a short-sighted manuever. i myself have do not enjoy cheating and will avoid people who blithely do it and aren't exceptionally interesting people. that said, i've had some of the most entertaining games with people who cheat at times. just have a standard, stick to it, and don't be first to lay down the hate. let them condenm themselves by their actions.

i think the most sensible thing for people to do is build up their guild card list. play with people - preferrably in safe areas - and those who are cool get your guild card. those who aren't don't. simple as that. weeds out a-holes and networks towards cooler people faster.

[Mustashi2278]

I rember one day, I was playing online with my lvl 141 HUmar on ultimate and a FO joined the game, he asked me if im legit, i answerd yes, cuz its true. He saw my double cannon, my red sword and my red handgun, he refused to s&d me cuz he tought i was a dupper. Ok, i got the dbl cannon from a legit freind in a trade, I lost about 3/4 of my bank http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif... I got the red sword legitly and same for the red handgun. Some people can be real jerks...