Sorry, but I think...

[L0V3J00CIE]

...developing an inferiority complex because of your interest in the Japanese culture/people is ridiculous.

I had a problem earlier with a friend. Two Japanese players were being rude to me, and although my friend seems to think I don't understand a word being said since my Japanese is piss poor, that's not the case. The way the two players were was largely rude and wouldn't have been accepted comfortably by any other two players be they Japanese, Swedish, or Vietnamese if they had a brain.

I made a comment along the lines of, "A weak dog barks loudly" because they were gloating and acting arrogant. Spamming "w" and becoming too swallowed by their victory which was poor. I'm sorry, but I would say the same thing to an English player, so why shouldn't I to a Japanese player? Since when do the Japanese receive special treatment? That's their own flawed mentality, not mine. Yes, I realize that in Japan things are done differently, but I'm not going to suppress the urge to say something if I feel it needs to be said, regardless of who it needs to be said to, who it's said around, and what it is being said.

I was told indirectly that I was placing a foul image on "gaijins", but you know what, too bad. If you're not comfortable with my blunt nature, then don't play with me. I'm going to be as completely subtle as humanly possible and not even mention who this person was because I have more tact than that. I don't, however, feel comfortable talking to this person personally about it because I feel they need to actually read through something that in my opinion is well thought-out to form a decent reply or whatever.

This post isn't like a PM or anything, because I feel it holds value here. No, this is not a post insulting the Japanese and their culture, as I find it to be incredibly interesting and hold a lot of interests underneath it as well. HOWEVER, I do not hold my interests because of the fact that they are "Japanese." Since when is speaking out against a bad mentality [the superiority complex Japanese possess] bad? Hello? The reason many changes in societies across the globe have taken place is because of the outspoken individuals who feel things NEED to be said.

Just because a group of people don't like you doesn't mean that you shouldn't like yourselves. Don't discriminate. By being open to being a certain way with a certain group, and not another, you are discriminating. This disgusting and uncomfortable double standard needs to end.

...and it won't. The Japanese have been like this for hundreds of years. That's fine. That's something that makes them "Japanese." I have to reiterate this, since I know people will take the post the wrong way. I am not insulting the Japanese, but the people who suppress/encourage suppression in other people. We're all humans. I'll treat each and every person the same way, be it well or poor, and there is no more to it. Adopting different mentalities are IDIOTIC.

Yes, I realize this has been redundant, but I'm very upset. If by giving your honest opinions or expressing yourself you're giving any group of people a bad name, then oh fucking well. If people can't see that you're an individual and not a representation of the greater whole [and this isn't the case with the Japanese, as it's a cultural adjective] then who cares?

And all of this applies to any group of people with superiority disorders and prejudice views. Grow the fuck up.

And as to the person who inspired me to post this: I'm sorry, but you really upset me. I wasn't upset by luck or anything like that as much as I was your ability to just tell me to change what I had said. I didn't, I won't, and never will. If you dislike me because of that, then I can't really say I'm bothered. I found you to be one of the most enjoyable people to play with online, but after that and a few other incidents which likely just flew over your head because of your lack of concern for people you call "friends", I found myself getting consistently annoyed. If people are rude to me, then I will be rude to them. What you interpret is rude is not what I interpret as rude. What you interpret as annoying is not what I interpret as annoying. If you can't accept that, then I feel we just weren't meant to play together or cooperate in any way, shape, or form.

Oh, and before I go, yes, this is Eum. I really wanted to post this, so I did. I'm confused as to why an IP ban hasn't been put into effect. This is the third time. Hello?

Anyway, after this banning, rest assured that I'll be back. Oh, and by the way, I have multiple ISPs, so if you're willing to contact each and every one of them on grounds of abuse, I do so dare you to. I'm sure their concern involving my opinions on a b-list video game message board will sky-rocket. And don't threaten a lawsuit or whatever [since I know you'll become that desperate] because I'll keep doing it just to see how far you'll take it.

Tootles.

[SpikeOtacon]

I admire the consistancy.

[AppieDPC]

And I admire the fact that he goes trough all this trouble with several ISP's for a
b-list video game message board
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[L0V3J00CIE]

The "b-list" was an adjective for the game, not the message board, although yes, considering it is in fact comprised of people like you, who have nothing more to do than make less-than-witty comments on completely unrelated points.

Trouble? The ISPs were there long before I ever registered here. I'm taking no special shortcuts.

Have a cookie.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: L0V3J00CIE on 2004-01-19 07:38 ]</font>

[SpikeOtacon]

What kind of cookie? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[AppieDPC]

On 2004-01-19 07:36, L0V3J00CIE wrote:
The "b-list" was an adjective for the game, not the message board, although yes, considering it is in fact comprised of people like you, who have nothing more to do than make less-than-witty comments on completely unrelated points.
Oh flame bait? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Anyway I read your post and I don't mind that you vent your opinion. I even agree with it on some points. So I just made one little (lame) joke about your post. Just relax. It was only one joke! (I could have made so much more http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif )



Have a cookie.

No thanks I just ate http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AppieDPC on 2004-01-19 07:55 ]</font>

[RuneLateralus]

On 2004-01-19 07:09, L0V3J00CIE wrote:
Anyway, after this banning, rest assured that I'll be back. Oh, and by the way, I have multiple ISPs, so if you're willing to contact each and every one of them on grounds of abuse, I do so dare you to. I'm sure their concern involving my opinions on a b-list video game message board will sky-rocket. And don't threaten a lawsuit or whatever [since I know you'll become that desperate] because I'll keep doing it just to see how far you'll take it.

Tootles.


Nice to know you found something to keep you occupied. Well, good bye. And be stupid enough to reveal who you are again. I am sure we wouldn't mind banning all your accounts until you get a life.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RuneLateralus on 2004-01-19 08:17 ]</font>

[HaLLa]

Most Japanese really dont like Americans do they?

(well most countries dont period but thats besides the point)

[LamerPanda]

Depends on what you're doing.

In most competitive situations, I find it difficult to play with people from other countries, not even because of language barriers but because of differences in culture. Case in point - Episode III. I own it, but I know if I tried to go online with it I would be driven absolutely crazy by the subtle unspoken rules I'm just supposed to know. I don't speak Japanese, so I wouldn't even be able to apologize for my ignorance, certainly not a good example for "stupid gaijin" or however it's even spelled...

But then again, why should I have to be one? If they judge a whole race or country instead of judging by individuals, isn't that more their problem than mine?

Repeating the original topic right back there? Pretty much. However, consider that Eum has never played a cooperative game with JP players. I've been playing FFXI recently, I've teamed with JP players or healed them out in the field and it's been great fun. I don't think most of them go out of their way to discriminate against foreigners, but it seems to me that in Ep III, the nuances of politeness can get to points that are absolutely ridiculous and one-sided, and I can't be bothered with that. I don't mind being polite so long as the courtesy is returned.

If I'm considered stupid and rude for that, so be it. I'm sort of wondering how one player on FFXI thinks of me right now, they kept sending me messages in Japanese and I didn't understand a word of it (unless you count "^^")...

...but then again, if I use autotranslate to say "I don't understand" and "Do you speak English?" over and over and still get no attempt at even using autotranslate, whose problem is that? (As far as I can tell there's no "Please use auto-translate" message, and I haven't seen "yes" or "no", which is just stupidity on S-E's part. But I digress.)

[SkyHawkX]

Telling others to get a life over the internet is hilarious.

[Mattacon]

Nice knowing you.



Not.

[Shimarisu]

Everyone, please do yourself a favour. Most Japanese *kids* are rude to us because they think we are rude for not speaking in battle. Conversation in battle, with your opponent is a staple of this game. Malkavian, you know that game yesterday where the player kept saying 'Mu'? Yesterday I caught him in another lobby, moaning at a friend that you never spoke, and maybe you were 'one of those gaijin'. We are all getting a bad rep, so let's try to counter it for the sake of peace on ep 3.

Eum, you got flak yesterday (I was there) because you started speaking English. Which is fine, but it would have been OK if gaijin had not already been rude. For example, the Brazilian player who uses pouillys and spams symbol chats in battle. The French player who tells people to 'FUKK OFF'. The English player who is rude, talks racist shit behind text block, and abuses their partner if they start talking to the opponent.

Japanese people are not inherantly rude. But westerners have a WELL DESERVED reputation of being so. You know the old adage, of how a woman has to work twice as hard to be paid as well as a man? Well, we have to be twice as polite as these kids on the game, to preclude any assumption we are going to be rude. Because if they think we are going to be rude, they will be rude to us.

Everyone, please put this in your shortcuts, if you speak no Japanese. Type it in Japanese text mode:

"Gaikokujinn nann desu kedo. Nihongo wakatte orimasenn. Yorosiku onegai itasimasu."

This is uber polite. The double n is there because to get the N on the end of words, you hit N twice.

They will be so surprised at the politeness, they will not abuse you (only stupid kids do this, remember) when they realise you aren't Japanese.

- Shimarisu

[LamerPanda]

But why should we be vilified because of other westerners? Why can't they judge people as individuals instead of just lumping us all into one group?

I'm sort of offended that we even *have* to try twice as hard to be recognized as polite. I'm a kid too, but wow, I don't avoid JP players because of a few rude ones (and yeah, they do exist).

The shortcut thing helps, yes, and talking in battle would be good... but how are we supposed to know we're being rude if no one tells us (or, if they do, how can we tell if we can't understand it)? =/

I really, really dislike it when people make assumptions without considering that the other person might not know your customs. It's just unfair that we have to live up to some standard of perfection to make up for the idiots of the world.

[Shimarisu]

We have to do this, because the game is not out in the west yet, they assume we are not westerners in many cases, just rude. Then they find out, often after the fact that we are westerners, and they get a bad impression of us.
It's fair for them to asume we aren't westerners, because we should not being even playing this yet.

- Shimarisu

[-STE-]

On 2004-01-19 12:19, HaLLa wrote:
Most Japanese really dont like Americans do they?

(well most countries dont period but thats besides the point)



You mean on PSO.
On PSO noone like Americans....
you remenber on dreamcast what usa players did? spamm all day with racist words nol frezze all day on all ships i remenber hooligans was always in jp ship and told at jp they are monkey : D......
Who can love usa players on PSO? noone
most only play for destroy the game.
I think if jp can have server not connected they are happy. heeh

I never had problem with jp players maybe because can read jp, but when you go jp ships is impossible to be freeze and noone do spam with simbol chat (or better i saw 1 jp do spam but dunno if he was a real jp player).

One of my best friend on PSO is from usa but i dislike most of usa players on vega or stupid children who spam all day on antares....

Im not against all USA players i think you understand this i against with stupid person who play PSO only for destroy it and usually most of they are from USA like all know and i know lots of stupid person from other country too european country so stupid person is in all the world.

Is hard saw a jp players come play in usa or eu ship sure they are scared : D more easy see a usa or eu players go play on jp ships.

Most of my friend on pso are jp and all of they are very good person.

[HaLLa]

Im not jus ttalking about PSO I just mean in General

[-STE-]

On 2004-01-20 00:10, HaLLa wrote:
Im not jus ttalking about PSO I just mean in General



oh too big discussion
i only know few jp and most are from PSO.

Like i wrote on other topics dislike a state only for few stupid person is not nice i can dislike most of usa players of PSO but this dont mean i dislike all people of USA http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

and i think you dislike too most of people spammer etc of vega? right

[Shimarisu]

Eum, I just realised, this was a dig at me, and if you are going to play with me, I don't need this.

Some things you should know:

1. I do not have an inferiority complex. In fact, do you know what I think of myself? I think, no, I KNOW I am better than 95% of people. This is no accolade, this is fairly easy to achieve - people are shits.

2. I have a massive sense of pride (see above). People slagging me off is something I wish to avoid. I moved out of a TOWN to get away from it. It literally a case of "How dare you speak to me like that, fuck you, I am out of here."

3. People slagging me off because of what others said, hurts. "Arion san wa ano gaijin to issho ni imashita." Then they all fling crap - do I need that? I don't want to be associated with others' opinions. And I won't fling crap at people just because somebody else did. It's not a betrayal to refuse to do it if I don't want to. I am UNIQUE, thank you. I don't follow the crowd, to my eyes, the crowd is invisible.

4. I am fairly famous in ep.3. I DON'T need a crappy reputation. Last night I had lots of people watching my games and booing when I won. I wonder why this is? I'm here to have FUN, not be booed.

5. I have just as bad a temper as yours. Please don't overstep the line.

6. If a Japanese player is rude to me, I'm rude right back. One of my favourite phrases on PSO is, "Da.re. ga a.no. gaijin deshou?" Let's not slag off players who are just stupid and immature. It's so easy to find altogether more palatable flame targets elsewhere.

7. NOBODY TELLS ME HOW TO ACT, UNLESS THEY ARE A LOVER OR A MEMBER OF AUTHORITY. And the latter, only under threat of prosecution. I might listen to friends, but then again, I don't need to. I'm considerate to friends. But if they start to tell me not to have autistic fits in their house, they get a hearty "FUCK YOU". Do you suppose I have friends? No. I have none. I lost them all, because they like their place in middle-class society more than they like to associate with me. Well I have two friends, two autistics and I don't get to see them, they are shut in cases because of getting similar treatment to mine. But do you know what? I gave up caring. It is me and my boyfriend (shunned by his family and friends for putting up with me) against the world.

8. I am extremely arrogant and I know it. I don't care. It's a survival tactic. I've been abused all my life. My dad used to beat me, and when I was 16 and he did not stop, I beat him back. Why? Because nobody makes me feel small.

- Posted after my anger overloaded, after losing YET AGAIN to the COM due to consistant 1 defence rolls.

- Shimarisu

[HasebeYu]

I wasn't digging at anyone. I didn't, and wasn't trying to insult anyone/any group of people/etc. I was only venting because I felt I was treated rudely by you when you told me to "be more careful."

I felt I didn't need to be more careful given the circumstances. The entire post was me complaining over Japanese mentality and having to suppress my feelings regarding it. I wasn't aiming for hitting you personally, and I'm sorry having done so.

However, with that said, if you feel my actions are dangerous to your reputation and so on and so forth, then don't play with me. I'm sorry that you feel such is more important than a "friend" [which is obviously a loosely used term] and their opinions. That's fine, though.

When I made that comment, I wasn't thinking, "Hm, let's brand Arion with my harsh words because I'm angry." You should know that. That was another huge point in my post. It's supremely fucked up that what I said is a representation of you, because:

1. You are not my father.

2. You are not my mother.

3. You are not my boss.

4. You are not my teacher.

5. You, from the way you've dealt with everything, are apparently not my friend.

I hope [and know] your response to all of that is something along the lines of telling them you were embarrassed by my actions and are very sorry for such, because I most certainly am not. In fact, it's better that we aren't playing together, because, ironically, I do know how to say "I say what I feel." in Japanese. And believe I would say such.

I'm sorry you felt this post was an arrow aimed for your head, but it wasn't. You're not the victim of anything; I am. Like I mentioned before, your reputation is more important to you, and I think that's a bit shallow when it comes to everything that has happened. We're all individuals, though. Since you're so popular, the fact that you play with one less person won't matter.

The concept of friendship and camaraderie online is so thin.

[Shimarisu]

Who said I never wanted to play with you? I never said that anywhere. I said be more careful, because you can EASILY chide somebody without annoying them so much they talk shit about you all over the game.

I don't want popularity. What I want is to play in peace without BOOOO every time I win. Would you enjoy this, seriously? It's very irritating. I said you were my friend many times. However, I'm allowed to state my opinion to you, just as you are allowed not to follow it. I think you are seriously overreacting here, "Try to be more careful" does not mean "Don't do that, you will give me a bad rep." If you like I can advise you what to say to them (what will work, and shut them up). If they flash symbol chats a lot, it's OK to say "Urusai" for example. It doesn't JUST mean "Shut up" it means "Noisy". Or another good one is "Mimi ga itai desu" (my ears hurt) - good for them talking and talking and talking utter spam. The dog comment just got me a lot of flak, is all. I'm not telling you what to do, just to be more careful. Insult them all you like, it's just not a good idea to give idiots ammo if what they later do angers you.

There's a reason I posted all that stuff. To show you we think alike. Are you going to blow off somebody who could be a good friend, just because they disagreed with you ONCE? Why do that? If I did that I would have run out on my partner like a thousand times over.

Per DAY.

Like I say, if you want to chuck an insult, you could ask me for a good one that's commonly used too among JP players when confronted by idiots. Urusai is good. They can't make lame "I'm a doggie" symbols based on that. Those chats made ME grind my teeth. I nearly said something awful to them. What I said was, "You are not a dog, you are a cat." (chara was called Myuu.)

Anyway, I thought the plan was to avoid this stupid crap off people? We are both annoyed by it. Zane is making a site for the ship we were going to hang out on. I know Japanese players too, who want to avoid the kids. You aren't going to convince me though, that provoking more of the abuse is a good idea. I hate it and I want to avoid it. Screw my reputation. The whole reason I said that is because they follow me into games. They watch my tourneys. I AM well known and it's NOT too much fun for me. I'm not blowing you off because I'm famous and I want attention. I don't like the attention I am getting, jeez, I'm not that fickle.
I'm not going to stop playing with you if you still want to play, but there is no need to get so angry over a disagreement. If you want to do that, that will confirm your point about friendships on the internet being fragile. We both have strong personalities that ARE going to clash. The trick is, to say screw it if it happens. Because most of the time we agree.

It's not your fault btw, that they are booing me. I got a lot of shit after Fantasy Eve wrecked my reputation. I may have to remake my character.

Can we forget this? I was not angry with you at the time. If I seemed abrupt, it was because I was falling asleep. I DCed and immediately went to bed.

Oh and what do you mean, the way I dealt with everything? If you mean the apparent ignoring you, there is a reason why I couldn't play with you on Famitsu Cup day, I had to preserve the rank. It slipped every time I paused between tourneys. And afterwards, inviting Tevren and not you to the auction. There was a reason for that too. I felt obliged to him - he had played with me for hours purely to help my rank. It was a crap auction anyway, I think Malk got all the cards, and nothing I didn't already have and could trade to you anyway.

- Shimarisu

[Malkavian]

"Gaikokujinn nann desu kedo. Nihongo wakatte orimasenn. Yorosiku onegai itasimasu."
Ok, but can I know what it means? I don't feel comfortable unknowing the the meaning of what I say http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Tevren]

I helped both of you in that Fammy, because it meant nothing to me. Had Cz not been in a match, and Mal not been in such a rush, I would have gladly deferred it to Cz. I was happy to merely be able to play with Cz again, which hasn't happened much honestly since I came back.

[JedahNSonans]

'I'm foreign trash, so I don't understand your 1337 lenguage. Please forgive me this utmost dishonour.*'

*actual words may appear above more spiteful than they really are.

- some shut-in

[derBauer]

They boo because always want the person at the top to fall. Take the booing as them saying "we acknowledge how good you are".

[Arislan]

"Gaikokujinn nann desu kedo. Nihongo wakatte orimasenn. Yorosiku onegai itasimasu."

Means

"I'm a foreigner, and don't understand Japanese. Please treat me fairly (nicely, well, or a 100 other words that mean about the same)"

[AndyPandy]

Ok, can I just clear one thing up here.....we are talking about a game are we not?

[RoninJoku]

I don't have Episode III yet... but in my opinion, japanese players are almost always extremely polite (even when i first started doing c-mode with japanese players and was a super noob). Especially if you are polite you them (use word select if you have to, thats what its there for). I have noticed however that almost all japanese-americans are extremely rascist. They are the ones that I have noticed have superiority complexes. As for the rude japanese players, don't let one bad egg spoil the whole bunch! =) (and that goes for rude westerners too)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2004-01-20 16:26 ]</font>

[psojohndoe2]

Yes, we are... but "Yorosiku onegai itasimasu" is really more of a general thing when you meet someone for the first time, and are trying to be polite. I guess you could take it as a polite way of saying "Nice to meet you." Not exactly the same... but best I can come up with ^_^;;

[Shimarisu]

Yoroshiku can be said at any point in a friendship, especially when you are going to rely on them for something.

- Shimarisu