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anwserman
Mar 4, 2004, 02:34 PM
Whoa, yes I'm talking about MITCH NOW.
Because, it has dawned on me, that he has been avoiding me for the last week for unknown reason... well, unknown to a point. I have a hunch why he's avoiding me right now, with damn good reason to do do.

His drinking.

Tomorrow is the last day before spring break, and he's going down to Green Bay and he's going to party it up... and he doesn't want to give me the opportunity to bring it up beforehand. I'm getting this from the reaction I gave him on Monday when he told me what he did the week before (his classes were cancelled the whole week essentially so he went down home), and he boozed it up. Five out of the six nights he was gone, he was smashed. He even admitted that he doesn't remember doing much that week except for drinking.

Now, now before anyone pounces on me about this thread, I want to make myself clear: It does not include me being gay at all, and it doesn't involve any hatred towards drinking. I think that it should be done in moderation, that there is a time and a place for it. He's 21, and he is *by law* old enough to drink. I'm not arguing that fact at all... good for him, but it is a bit much. And here are the reasons why I'm ranting about this.

1. He's 21 and a freshman in college (he screwed up two years in college.)
2. He owes his parents a sum of cash.
3. He's injured and cannot work.
4. His friends are fuck-ups.
5. He has gotten into situations before with alcohol... almost deadly ones.

And the big deal about this is that, we've had conversations about this before, drinking. We've had conversations about it. He's admitted that he needs to stop drinking in such excess, that I am really smart for not drinking (I would, never get offered to do so... but I would drink in moderation) and that his friends are fuck-ups. He didn't say that in those words, but it is the truth. They all lose their jobs, some don't attend college, some have kids already AND their main concern is about getting sloshed with Mitch whenever he goes down home. Is it my concern? Nope. But as a friend, I feel obligated to bring this shit up before something happens. And why do I feel this way? Because I am the only person who will bring it up to him, and he knows it. I honestly believe thats why he is avoiding me before spring break. I have damn good reason to bring it up, too... because he has admitted his problems to me and to nobody else, and nobody else will bring up those problems because they're unknown to them.

So, for those situations, there are two I know of right now. First one happened about a year or two ago, at Noah's Ark in Wisconsin. First and foremost, Mitch and his friends were underage. They drove down there, drinking in the vehicle. They were openly buzzed/drunk at Noah's Ark. Mitch went into the wavepool and almost drowned. Happy thoughts... happy thoughts. I wasn't there, I don't know what exactly happened but he almost died. That in itself is something to be concerned about. You might be able to right it off as "something stupid that he did a couple years back", but the thing is he is still friends with those people that he went down with and they get drunk. And something along those lines is bound to happen again, not necessairly to him but to someone in his group of friends.

The second one is less serious (aka NOT* deadly), but at Christmas time he was at a bar with his family, where they could get all-you-could-drink beer for $6. Buy the pitcher, you get all the beer you want in it. So, he drank. And drank. And drank. And drank to the point where he spewed in the bathroom, causing a mess. And then he drank some more. Now, before you nail me on this one... I do know that it was Christmastime, a holiday. Holidays, you do party. And that relative, he rarely sees so of course he wants to have fun. But, he drank to where his body couldn't phyiscally handle it anymore... he drank until he vomitted, and drank some more dammit.

Throw in the factor that these are the stories I do know, and that there are several more stories I don't know of and I have a reason to be concerned. Throw in the fact that he just admitted that he was drunk 5 out of the 6 days he was gone, and you see why I'm ranting this way. He has a problem, he knows I know he has a problem, and he's avoiding me right now. He has a problem with self-control, that is aggrivated by his friends and his family. How do I bring it up? I don't know. It fucking sucks since his priorities lie in Green Bay. It doesn't matter what I say, since it he'll probably just forget about it when he's with his friends. Yet, I still feel burdened to talk to him, because if something happens and I didn't make the effort to talk with him, I'll feel guilty. At the same time, if I do talk, I might fuck up the friendship we have. Its a freakin' lose-lose situation as I see it.

Well, this is all I have to say right now.
Peace out.

*Edit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anwserman on 2004-03-04 13:38 ]</font>

navci
Mar 4, 2004, 02:41 PM
Er, that sucks.
I know how you feel. Obligated to pull your friend back from potential disaster, and afraid they might get mad at you.

...
I agree with what you said about drinking, and fucked up friends need to die. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


... Do what you must. Being the person I am, I'd risk the friendship to stop friend from getting himself into serious trouble.

anwserman
Mar 4, 2004, 03:13 PM
Well, I just talked to my dad and our family friend Bob, and well...

It kinda turned into a talk about how it isn't my duty to nag him, that he came up here for college to escape from the pressures and that the worst thing to do is to nag him. Talk with him once, probably. Or be blunt, and ask if he needs help privately. But not to nag, thats what he doesn't need.

But yes, I'm in a better mood right now from talking with them.

navci
Mar 4, 2004, 04:06 PM
See? You have the answer.
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Pardon me for not thinking straight, my head feels like its filled with cotton.

Armok
Mar 4, 2004, 04:15 PM
On 2004-03-04 11:34, anwserman wrote:
The second one is less serious (aka deadly), but at Christmas time he was at a bar with his family, where they could get all-you-could-drink beer for $6. Buy the pitcher, you get all the beer you want in it. So, he drank. And drank. And drank. And drank to the point where he spewed in the bathroom, causing a mess. And then he drank some more. Now, before you nail me on this one... I do know that it was Christmastime, a holiday. Holidays, you do party. And that relative, he rarely sees so of course he wants to have fun. But, he drank to where his body couldn't phyiscally handle it anymore... he drank until he vomitted, and drank some more dammit.


I usually agree with you answerman but not on this one.

I've done that several times at least five. Throwing up can be cause by drinking COLD beer or Cider too fast this causes the body to throw it up (done worst than that but best not mention the A+A ward or fighting in the street against my best mate). You can drink perfectly fine afterwards. I wouldnt go on at him all the time as he seems from what you say to be someone you value as a friend which you dont want to lose for bitching at him. Also you should get super hammered at least once in your life especilly if your at College.

Daikarin
Mar 4, 2004, 04:23 PM
On 2004-03-04 13:15, Armok wrote: Also you should get super hammered at least once in your life especilly if your at College.


I usually disagree with you Armok, but I have to agree this time.

*Hic*

It's part of college life to go out for a drink once in a very while.

I still didn't get that chance yet.

But one of my friends went to a party where they charged 0.10 € per glass, and he got drunk by paying 1.5 €.

Oh, the laughs. He was chasing trucks yelling "GIMME BACK MY MONEY!"

LOL

...Ahem.

And answerman, altough I think you're worrying too much over him (But I know you can't help it) the best thing to do is punch his face and...

*looks at Answerman's scary glare*

...ok, slap his face and make him see reality.

Everyone needs to do that. The only way to end up an addiction is with lots of will power and support.

Altough I consider your support to be too much, but that's another issue.

Peace. *Hic*

Armok
Mar 4, 2004, 04:31 PM
On 2004-03-04 13:23, New Ultimate wrote:
I usually disagree with you Armok, but I have to agree this time.


Wow someone agreed with me for once.

Oh and get a kebab or some kind of burger on the way back if you do get really drunk.

I however do not endorse regular excessive drinking in anyway shape or form. I only really get hammered on a Friday and saturday night. Its not worth ruining your life/education over.

anwserman
Mar 4, 2004, 04:49 PM
OK, people I just do want to let you know that... I am fully aware of the fact that I do not want to ream him endlessly about the topic. Just, bring it up once and then drop it... all I want to do right now. If he changes, yeah its good. If not, yeah um, not good or something but I shouldn't worry about it.

About the endless pitcher of beer? Regardless of whether or not you've done it before... it, in my belief, its stupid. However, how he explained it.. well.... hmm. Please do remember that I know that it was at Christmastime, and he was with a relative that he rarely sees. But, whether or not you've done it before, you DO KNOW that vomiting is the body's way to purge itself of toxins. Regardless of whether or not you feel that it is something to bring up, just be aware of that fact.


Altough I consider your support to be too much, but that's another issue.

The last time we had a talk about drinking, it was us talking about drinking games and how complicated they are... and that I need to try one sometime. Irregardless of that, I do want to point out that *I am not against drinking* but rather, drinking in such quantities at a time... the only thing I brought up to him so far was an email I composed and sent to him, was that I was wondering what the hell was going on this week... and that last time a friend avoided me, it was for good and he ended up stabbing me in the back. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif I unfortuantely said, that if it continues for an extended period, I'd rather end the friendship then to go through emotional crap. I later emailed him back and apologized.

Well, gotta go.
I'll have more thoughts later tonight.

opaopajr
Mar 5, 2004, 01:13 AM
i, on the other hand, have a far less laissez-faire attitude to what definitely sounds like binge drinking and proto-alcoholism.

alcohol is a drug that can be used in moderation, but it's also one of the most potent drugs we have, and incredibly reactive with other drugs (making it far more dangerous). it doesn't sound like after all these years he's found his "happy buzzed control place." can he ever drink with his buds or at parties without getting pissed out of his mind? if not there's a problem, and a good friend would keep an eye on it.

if it was me i'd gradually upgrade him to something more potent, yet less addictive, like hallucinogenics. they are just about completely physiologically not-addictive and mostly psychologically not-addictive. something like LSD would cure his craving for completely losing it when living it up, while also being serious enough and non-addictive enough to not control him. but then again, that's just me.

if he's hiding it from you, overly defensive, requires a shot in the morning to function, etc. be careful, those are symptoms that something else but him is in control. i never underestimate the power of alcohol, that's one serious drug, causing the most non-accident related OD fatalities in the US as well as causing a majority of drug related violence and accidents. it's physiologically and psychologically addictive. and our USA culture is reknowned for doing things in excess, and excess with a serious drug is flirting with disaster.

be tactful, but keep an eye. and pray he comes back safe from green bay. water recreation and alcohol don't mix just as much as drinking and driving. hope he stays safe, sane, and consentual

Omni-Man
Mar 5, 2004, 11:45 AM
Oy, another debaucle for the answerman.

In order to solve this dilemma, I'll need to make a few points as reference:

Drinking alcohol is not a problem. Drinking to the point of vomiting is not a problem PROVIDED it is a one-time occurance.

Habitually getting so tanked that that you cannot function is a SERIOUS problem, and is usually indicative of an addictive personality and/or a need to escape some very deep psychological trauma.

According to your initial post, this is not a "once in a lifetime college benderfest". Mitch is fast becoming (if not already) an alcoholic.

Opaopajr did an excellent job of stating all of the statistical hazards of problem drinking.

The final point is that you cannot make someone change; you can only control your actions and try to facilitate said person's desire to change themselves.

You have a few choices:

A. Do nothing. Stew about his need for inebriation until you become resentful of him and end up lashing out in a manner which WILL terminate the friendship.

B. Confront him head on, delivering an ultimatum to the effect of "hooch and the tards, or me and basketball". There is a 70% chance that he will react VERY badly and sever ties with you on the spot OR he will pay you lip service and get plastered behind your back.

C. Ask him why he feels the need to get pukey EVERY time he drinks; why he associates good times with blackouts. Try to help him WANT to cut back on the brain-pickling. There is a substantial risk that he may still pay you lip service and binge anyway.

I come from a long line of addictive, SEVERELY depressive personalities and I can safely say I've done my share of excess (in fact I probably did your share, and opaopajrs, and that guy's share over there, and...).

My point is that excess solves nothing, and EXCESSIVE substance use activates the evil little user demon in EVERYBODY. If you are really his friend (and it sounds like you are) choose either option B or C; if Mitch is still unresponsive to your placations or demands, you may be left with no choice but to take option D:

D. Sever ties with Mitch. You will miss out on a lot of fun, activities, and companionship but you will wash your hands of a problem you cannot solve and battle you cannot win.

Whatever option you choose I wish you the best of luck as always.

anwserman
Mar 5, 2004, 06:56 PM
Hmmm. Two very good posts. opaopajr was right about the statistics (and to tell the truth, he has smoked pot before... last time, from what he told me, was three months ago). And for some damn reason, I don't care about the pot. Hell, I'd do it once in a while too if the opportunity arose. But, for some reason, drinking just pisses me off when not done in moderation.

The reason why I brought this whole topic up is that I don't know everything he's done while drinking... but the point of the matter is, if he's done some of that crap once, he's bound to do it again. Yes, I shouldn't make a big deal about the whole "drinking then spewing" episode, but the thing is, I'm not dumb enough to think that it happened only that one time. He's done it once, he'll do it again.


A. Do nothing. Stew about his need for inebriation until you become resentful of him and end up lashing out in a manner which WILL terminate the friendship.
Almost did that in an email... see one of my posts above. I said that I had no idea why he was avoiding me, and that last time a friend did that to me, he took advantage of me and later... horribly stabbed me in a back. A couple hours later, I apologized via email again, saying I was tired and depressed, and that all I want to do is be a good friend and that I was wondering what I did wrong for him to avoid me, so I could avoid making similar mistakes in the future.


B. Confront him head on, delivering an ultimatum to the effect of "hooch and the tards, or me and basketball". There is a 70% chance that he will react VERY badly and sever ties with you on the spot OR he will pay you lip service and get plastered behind your back.
His priorities lie down in Green Bay and his friends, I know that. That won't work, I refuse to even attempt that.


D. Sever ties with Mitch. You will miss out on a lot of fun, activities, and companionship but you will wash your hands of a problem you cannot solve and battle you cannot win.
This happened on Monday, this thought.
I sat there Monday night, in bed, unable to sleep because I had this idea on my mind. I cried... and slammed the mattress with my fist a couple times. I went on MSN for an hour and ranted with my friend Kelli. And I still couldn't sleep. Throw in the fact I felt like shit from something (not a cold, but stuffyness and a runny nose) and that I had a test the next day... and you'd be see why I was so emotional and depressed.


C. Ask him why he feels the need to get pukey EVERY time he drinks; why he associates good times with blackouts. Try to help him WANT to cut back on the brain-pickling. There is a substantial risk that he may still pay you lip service and binge anyway.
Yes, I do plan on trying this method. Well, just not as blunt as you phrased it. More emotional though, slightly more emotion. Because, I have a hunch that showing emotion will make it loud and clear that I'm concerned about him. Plus that, if he does still disregard me and how I feel - through how much thought and worry that he'd essentially had put me through - option D would be much easier to do then.

I know what I need to do, and how I need to do it... but damn, I don't want to. I don't want to risk our friendship. We've had good times together, and I don't want to risk the possibility of them not happening again. But then again, if he is avoiding me because of this topic, he knows that he has a problem and doesn't want me to confront him on it.

I hope nothing bad happens for the next nine days....

opaopajr
Mar 6, 2004, 02:38 AM
i suggest not too emotional. 'drama' is something no one likes - except drama students http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif (hung out with them enough to freely say this).

i, personally, would take the concerned but cool approach. kind of: frowning when you hear of his latest binge, raise an eyebrow, deep breath, nod, state concern, look of compassion, shrug shoulders, reiterate you're desire to keep him happy and healthy, and then leave the ball in his court.

if he won't change, well, there's nothing you can do. unless he starts plummeting in grades and rapid deterioration or something you really have no grounds for parental/school/rehab intervention.

but leaving it open, showing you are cool about drinking, but worried about the excessive behavior, leaves him an escape valve to admit he has a problem if he wants to fix it.

sobby, weepy, pleas of pretty much any form is a good way to get dismissed. i'd recommend something more flexible and approachable.

anwserman
Mar 6, 2004, 12:36 PM
Yeah, you got that point across too dammit. Heheheh, thinking about it some more, probably having an actual discussion then a plea to stop would be better. You know, talk with him about it instead of just reaming him for something I might be completely wrong on. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Yeah, discuss. But let him know how I truely feel as of right now. And, I won't have to see him for another 9 days.

Sigh.