to all religious zealots

[KaFKa]

you really should just stop preaching about your so called "holy book" and look at the world around you. if your 'god' was so great, then why is he letting children starve to death? why is he letting large wars take place causing more death among innocents? and why, if he is so omnipotent and powerful, doesent he just slay me right now for speaking such 'heracy'?

the simple answer is: he doesent exist.

FKL regulars and some people from TSZ would remember me preching about some random 'god' called SPOON. this was to prove, at least in theory, that any religion can be thought of as 'trivial' and wrong.

from what i've seen about most people that are religious zealots, they are all blindly faithful. true believers in their chose faith, but never think about their beliefs.

the only difference between the blindly faithful and the truly faithful is that the truly faithful have enough courage to question what they believe in

so, in closing, fuck your god, and stop trying to prove he exists just because a book says so

(note that this was inspired by the insurgence of bible-knocking mormons trying to convert me with their shit.)

[flash_fire]

All Religions require blind faith in what they believe in because none of them can be absolutely proven, even the absence of God cannot be proven. There are Zealots on both sides, Religion and Anti-Religion, and both sides are annoying. It's not just the Religious Zealots.

[ABDUR101]

I believe in God, and I'm offended by people who push their beliefs on others, whatever they believe in, or their lack there-of.

It's simple, religion is based on faith. You're given many texts that give you a basis of that, and it's up to you to put faith into your beliefs.

Obviously, if there was an outright answer, everyone would believe without question, but that defeats the purpose of the overall view that this life is a test, and that you suffer hardships and trials to test your faith.

And really, as offended as you were by someone pushing their beliefs on you, which I'm sorry they did, as most religions preach tolerence of others yet is it the followers who take it to the limit and try to make a believer out of everyone, but you offended many others by telling everyone their God doesn't exist(no matter what they believe in).

The door swings both ways.

[flash_fire]

I agree with you Abdur.

[Dangerous55]

Religion is like your sexuality. Do whatever, and keep it to yourself.

Follow that no matter your religion or even if you don't have one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dangerous55 on 2004-03-22 20:56 ]</font>

[geewj]

you really should just stop preaching about your so called "holy book" and look at the world around you. if your 'god' was so great, then why is he letting children starve to death? why is he letting large wars take place causing more death among innocents? and why, if he is so omnipotent and powerful, doesent he just slay me right now for speaking such 'heracy'?

The "Why does god let bad things happen" agrument is one of the worst thought out ones there is.

"Why is that man cutting me with a knife?".

Well it's because you have tumor and he is taking it out for you.

"Well if he is all powerfull and such then he should be able to fix it without bad things happening."

Yeah by taking away free will and forcing everyone to be good. Or would you rather he just created a magic barrier around someone whenever someone tried to stab them with a knife.

"Well he should tell us then."

Maybe that's what the "bible-knocking mormons" were trying to do. (by the way, Mormon religion belives and uses the bible just as much as anyone else. The Book of Mormon is just a record of the Americas in roughly the same time period.)


FKL regulars and some people from TSZ would remember me preching about some random 'god' called SPOON. this was to prove, at least in theory, that any religion can be thought of as 'trivial' and wrong.

Anything can be thought of as trivial and wrong. Literaly speaking, you can't prove anything at all. Any conclusions you draw about anything are nothing more than assumptions you've aquired though your easily decived five sences.


from what i've seen about most people that are religious zealots, they are all blindly faithful. true believers in their chose faith, but never think about their beliefs.

the only difference between the blindly faithful and the truly faithful is that the truly faithful have enough courage to question what they believe in

Following anything without giving it any thought is stupid, religion included. Most people have thought long and hard about it.


so, in closing, fuck your god, and stop trying to prove he exists just because a book says so

Stop trying to prove he doesn't exist just because you say so.

[Pancake]

Everyone has their own opinion, I'll let you believe what you want if you let us believe what we want? Ok

[LollipopLolita]

the rules do say that we have no room for pontification

they also say this

No discriminatory or derogatory remarks. Racist remarks, derogatory statements about another religion or belief, or ethnocentrism will result in banning. Posts with the following content is not tolerated: Vulgar, profanity, sexually explicit, racism, enthnocentrism, bashing a particular religion, gender or nationality or sexual orientation.

so i suggest everyone that everyone follow the rules.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LollipopLolita on 2004-03-22 21:20 ]</font>

[SJ]

Stop trying to prove he doesn't exist just because you say so.



Yeah this is kind of a stupid post Kafka cos its just gunna get locked and as The Prof said stop trying to prove religous people are wrong when we can just just do the same.
Result = Huge Argument.
Oh and if this is no god how was the earth created?
If you believe its 'The Big Bang' try taking a watch apart put it in a jar and shake it about until it goes back together.
That is what the big bang would be doing, quite simply you can't.

[_Sinue_]

I can't give you any answers Kafka, because I have none. I believe that there is a god, but I'm not so arrogant as to think I know his motivations, limitations (if any), or purpose. I was raised in a Roman Catholic household - and that's where my connection with god springs from.. although to a hardcore Roman Catholic I would probably appear to have no religeon since I don't follow it's doctrine where I believe it to be wrong or misinterpretive. What I do to the bible, is basically read between the lines. What it bascially says, condenced and without BS, is "Love God, Love Thy Neighbor, Love Thyself."

Even if he isn't real, I see the bible as a positive tool for self improvement, just as long as you use your head about it.

[Ness]

I have no problem with relgious people. I think that everyone should be allowed to follow their beliefs. the only thing that makes me mad is when people try to force their beliefs on others. One thing I have noticed is that many Christians say that they believe the Bible, but they haven't read it.

[flash_fire]

People don't like to read, If they made the Bible into a Movie, I bet people would watch it. Or if it was a Video Game people would play it. That gives me an idea.. any of you have enough money to produce a movie for me and to finance my development of the new Bible Online Videogame? My Bible Online Videogame is going to be an MMORG that simulates life in Biblical times. Where everyone is a citizen of the world in Biblical Times. The movie will be an Action movie starring Vin Diesel.

[Scejntjynahl]

Whoa, how original... hmmm. Yet one more thread about religion. MEH. *goes to pick nose instead*

[Daikarin]

On 2004-03-22 19:45, KaFKa wrote:
the simple answer is: he doesent exist.
so, in closing, fuck your god, and stop trying to prove he exists just because a book says so


Even though you were influenced by those mormons, I'd have to say that those weren't clever words.

How can you prove that he doesn't exist as well? Do you really believe life begins and ends here? If it was so, it was pretty sad. There must be a reason for all of this, and we won't find it here, in this world.

I'm not very religious. I like sleeping on Sunday mornings, and I'm not much of a fan of the religious costumes like not eating meat at Friday.

This is just what I believe in, and I wouldn't go around to Iraq to tell them "Fuck your Allah".

It seems to me Kafka, altough you're free to be an ateist, you should be more careful when talking about religion. You may end up offending someone.

I'm constantly being visited by those guys too. I just tell them that I have my beliefs fixed, or give them some excuse to let go of my leg.

And long before I knew the bible existed, I already believed in something bigger than this. Just respect everyone who also believes, as we respect your wish for not wanting to believe, can that be all right?

[KodiaX987]

I've recently found out that if I shout "religion!" in a crowded room, everyone starts killing each other for some unexplainable reason.

Looks like KaFKa has Teh Power, just like I do. Notice how the thread's going - time to go on a rampage!

[Scejntjynahl]

On 2004-03-23 07:14, Furankunichan wrote:
*goes to pick nose instead*



*still picking nose* "hmmm" *browses the thread* "Still another endless thread of religion"

Back on topic: (if it can be called that)

Man, can't we all agree to disagree?

This type of topics will never end, will never give an answer to satisfy all involved. Heck, they shouldn't even be brought up. How many threads like this one exist, and to date, the discussion has never improved or even offered new solutions. Always the same idiocy of "I am right and you are not". This is worse than high school.

[Outrider]

On 2004-03-23 07:10, flash_fire wrote:
People don't like to read, If they made the Bible into a Movie, I bet people would watch it. Or if it was a Video Game people would play it. That gives me an idea.. any of you have enough money to produce a movie for me and to finance my development of the new Bible Online Videogame? My Bible Online Videogame is going to be an MMORG that simulates life in Biblical times. Where everyone is a citizen of the world in Biblical Times. The movie will be an Action movie starring Vin Diesel.



Bible Adventures for the NES. It's not an MMORPG, but it's still a video game.

[flash_fire]

On 2004-03-23 10:23, Outrider wrote:

Bible Adventures for the NES. It's not an MMORPG, but it's still a video game.



Sweet I want that Game! Where can I get it?

[Shanris_1]

I'm probably going to take a bit of heat for speaking up...personally I hate religious rants like this, however I think that its time I put in my own 2 cents worth. See, its not about what religion you believe in...religion is more like an example of what certain societies see as an idealistic set of rules. Generally they are very well laid out...and usually, they turn out to be normal common-sense things. Wether or not you believe in a religion, thats your own choice...to you christians/church-goers...its not in how you pray, or how often you go to church, or how closely you follow the bible...its how well and fully you live your life, its how kind you are to others, even those who don't deserve it. The same goes for the rest of us, be you a follower of Allah, or a person who follows the teachings of Bhudda, or like myself, an agnostic pagan (how this works, I don't know, but apparently that is what I am).

[Majadamus]

if your 'god' was so great, then why is he letting children starve to death? why is he letting large wars take place causing more death among innocents? and why, if he is so omnipotent and powerful, doesent he just slay me right now for speaking such 'heracy'?

Human is imperfect. God gave us free will, thus allowing what you just said to happen. This is the price we pay for freewill. God allows this to happen because of sin. Despite all the tragedies in the world be lucky that you have free will.

Hey, sometimes I have my doubts. You just gotta remain faithful.

[KaFKa]

On 2004-03-23 08:15, New Ultimate wrote:

It seems to me Kafka, altough you're free to be an ateist,

fuck atheism as well, thats almost as bad as most religions out there. i can go on and on about my thoughts on religion, but that would just get me banned for the amount of inflammatory remarks i have to say about it.


you should be more careful when talking about religion. You may end up offending someone.

i actually laughed out loud at this one.

if i was worried about offending people, i wouldnt have made this thread. i wouldnt say half the things i say. i wouldnt do half the things i do.

to those of you that are thinking "you're just confused about yourself" because i say fuck religion, get to know me a little better before you think that. i dont have to have some reason behind anything i do past that i want to do it. its called the religion of KaFKa, have fun poking at its flwas just like i had fun picking at the flaws of your religions.



to Frink: granted, there are people who have questioned and thought about their beliefs, but from what i've found those people are few and far in between.

i wasnt talking about little things like "hey, why did i just have a bad day, god?" type things, im talking about the massive famines going on in other parts of the world, past wars that have taken place for basically no reason, and the adevnt of nuclear technology, not why did jhonny random get hit by a flying golf ball.

im not trying to prove he doesent exist, im saying that he doesent exist as many people believe him to be; which brings me to another thing i have thought about somewhat. why, if humans, chickens, dogs and cats were created in seven days, are there seemingly millions of years of evolution bringing about what we see today?

and no, im not an advocate of the big bang theory. truth be told, i could care less how this universe was created. it could end tomorrow, i really could care less.



to _sinue_: this is the kind of respectful reply that i like to see. i agree that most people need religion, some more than others. i know from experience that religion had kept my mother from killing herself many times. and yes, the bible does have its good points and redeeming qualities.



to flash_fire: wow, you really need to get out more often. movies about religion come a dime a dozen, the most recent being the passion of christ (which i didnt watch)



to furank: of course this discussion will never end, because the seemingly polar opposites are just that.



to lollipop: im not trying to , it was initially a rant, just me venting and stating a couple of my feelings on the subject. now it may become a good debate. but if it turns into a flame war, you might as well lock it...

to those who say im stupid for saying i dont believe in someting you do: simply put, walk that proverbial mile in my shoes, and you might understand what im coming from



to Kodia: w00t, i now have [i]teh power!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[ABDUR101]

Just take notice that it's one thing to be mad about someone pushing their beliefs onto you when you are perfectly happy with your own beliefs, it's entirely another to blatantly say "Fuck your God" and that God doesn't exist.

You end up offending people that see and understand your viewpoint and side with you, even though they do believe in God or something higher.

It's all too easy to bash religion and to bash athiesm, but it's a fine line to accept both and not step on eithers toes. Thats how it should be.

[SJ]

If I didn't follow the christian religion I would probably swear so much I'd lose my voice....
I say just lock the topic cos I'm sick of it already.

[Daikarin]

On 2004-03-23 12:00, KaFKa wrote:
fuck atheism as well, thats almost as bad as most religions out there. i can go on and on about my thoughts on religion, but that would just get me banned for the amount of inflammatory remarks i have to say about it.


Just fuck anyone, religious or not, is that what you're saying? Interesting point of view, Einstein.



i actually laughed out loud at this one.


Yes, please! Please laugh at my serious quotes. That will indeed make you look smarter.



to those of you that are thinking "you're just confused about yourself" because i say fuck religion, get to know me a little better before you think that. i dont have to have some reason behind anything i do past that i want to do it. its called the religion of KaFKa, have fun poking at its flwas just like i had fun picking at the flaws of your religions.


Aside from thinking that you're just confused, some of us are thinking that you just had a bad day with those mormons and you're releasing tantrum here. Very normal.

So you say fuck religion. Then you speak of "Kafka's religion". Whatever

Ah by the way, you said you didn't care about offending anyone, right?

I won't comment much on that, I'll just say that I'm not your mentor/spiritual guide to go around teaching you the meaning of "Respect", especially when you have fun bitching every religious guy. Thrilling indeed!

At least some PSO members here which I wouldn't like to name know when they screw up. On the same way, I never thought you were the kind of intelligent, brilliant guy to go around saying "Fuck you" whenever you see someone which believes in something different.

Just another thing. You spoke something about thousands or millions or whatever portions of years you used of evolution, that led us to this point.

Well here's something for you to write an essay about: Who ever said evolution had to be in a good sense?

It's not only you that have bad days and feel like flaming someone, or a community at special.

Forgive some of my quotes, I just had a horrible weekend.

[Shanris_1]

No copmplaints here, New Ultimate...well spoken. Abdur, the same to you...general acceptance and respect is what we all need, I don't care that you, Abdur, believe in somehing I do not. I do not know you, therefore I cannot and will not judge you solely on what you believe. Mayhaps even then I am being narrow in mind, but still...I try.

And yes...this should be a locked thread, I sense this is going to degrade relatively quickly from here.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shanris_1 on 2004-03-23 13:42 ]</font>

[Solstis]

On 2004-03-23 12:35, SJ wrote:
If I didn't follow the christian religion I would probably swear so much I'd lose my voice....
I say just lock the topic cos I'm sick of it already.



You can't request (as far as I know) to lock someone else's topic.

You can however, if it bothers you, ignore it.

hint, hint

*Looks suggestively at some of the more people and at Kafka*

Fuck religon? That would be pretty hard. But I have my beliefs, and I like 'em Kafka, though you do have some good points (I'm too lazy to quote or repeat).

[flash_fire]

On 2004-03-23 12:00, KaFKa wrote:

to flash_fire: wow, you really need to get out more often. movies about religion come a dime a dozen, the most recent being the passion of christ (which i didnt watch)


Sorry I wasn't clear, you misunderstood my post. I ment there should be a movie that Covers the Entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations.

[Allos]

On 2004-03-22 20:50, Prof_Frink wrote:



so, in closing, fuck your god, and stop trying to prove he exists just because a book says so

Stop trying to prove he doesn't exist just because you say so.



I agree with Frink.


And have you taken any classes on Theology Kafka? Not that I'm trying to push my Christian beliefs on you (because once in a while even I question his existence, and although I'm a believer, I'm not hyper-religious) but the courses I took provide good insight into God and creation.

[_Ted_]

On 2004-03-23 10:23, Outrider wrote:

Bible Adventures for the NES. It's not an MMORPG, but it's still a video game.



Hey! I have that game!

[geewj]

i wasnt talking about little things like "hey, why did i just have a bad day, god?" type things, im talking about the massive famines going on in other parts of the world, past wars that have taken place for basically no reason, and the adevnt of nuclear technology, not why did jhonny random get hit by a flying golf ball.

My response was for the big things too.


im not trying to prove he doesent exist, im saying that he doesent exist as many people believe him to be; which brings me to another thing i have thought about somewhat. why, if humans, chickens, dogs and cats were created in seven days, are there seemingly millions of years of evolution bringing about what we see today?

Ever read Inherit the Wind? The Bible says "seven days", but it's not like the bible to be literal. Seven days could mean any amount of time divided into seven sections.

(I'm just making the counter argument. I don't actually believe in the things I'm saying.)

[ABDUR101]

When it refers to seven days, you also have to realise that you're not going by "earth days". Infact, you're most likely not going by any planetary scale of days, so "day" is quite an irrelevant term to take by any definition as literal.

The scope of religion is broad, as should be everyone's thoughts on the matter itself.

[astuarlen]

Just to add something on the topic of "seven days":
You have to keep in who wrote Genesis I. (As opposed to Genesis II, of course. You'd be surprised how many Christians don't know there're actually two separate stories... >_> Ah, actually, no, you wouldn't, I suppose.) Anywho, if I recall correctly, it's believed that Gen I was written by "the priestly author". As such, the author would be concerned with making sure people remain faithful to the Sabbath, so the concept of God resting on the seventh day was used at least partially to make sure people came to the Temple to worship and to ensure that the priests kept their influence/jobs. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Also, structured stories are easiest to remember and retell because they follow a pattern (3 days of separation followed by 3 days of population). So, uh, I just thought that was interesting and semi-relevant... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Just for the record, I'm not Christian myself, but arguments regarding literal readings of the Bible--either side--get annoying. v.v

[derBauer]

Kaf, your post trying to shove your belief down our throats is not much different than someone trying to teach you about their religion. The one difference I do see however is in attitude. You are being rude and an asshole, and I am not seeing anyone treat you the same way.
God may or may not exist, I don't know and don't really care. I defnitely would not say "fuck your god" to any believer no matter what I thought of the religion.
Why all the religion bashing is allowed here is beyond me. It just seems somewhat odd that using the word "gay" gets posts edited and warnings issued, but "fuck your god" is hardly a blip on the radar.

[_Sinue_]

Personally, I don't really see where he was trying to "Shove his beliefs" down our throats. He stated his opinion.. kind of crudely.. but alright.

I AM Roman Catholic. I believe in Christ and the Holy Trinity. I believe in the ressurection and comming of the kingdom of heaven. I believe in it so strongly, that I would personally rather die than have someone strip my religeon away from me. By all rights, I should be offened by Kafka's opinions about my religeon right?

I'm not.

Why?

Because it's MY religeon. Not his. I am secure in my beliefs and my faith. I love my god, and Kafka's opinions aren't going to change that. So why not let him speak his mind? If someone else hears his rant, and is shaken in faith, then perhaps they should have been shaken and try to find a faith (or no faith) that suits them better. Who are you (or I) to judge what is right for someone?

Someones I think the same ideal behind the "Homophobes usually tend to harbor homosexual thoughts" line works with religeous zelots also. They have to reaffirm their faith by defending it and "proving it right" because it's not that strong in the first place. Sorry if that sounded like a personal attack on anyone.. but it has been a thought that I've considered.

[Armok]

Note: don't read if your in anyway religous. As the below is pretty much true and just basically denied by everyone.


Christianity/jewdism can be traced back to ancient Egypt. Whre the father of Tutankhamon ,Smenkhare Who founded (made it up) the idea of 1 god (which he intended to be the sun god which he intended to be him). Ppl rebeled and all his followers where shamed for 150 years till Moses led them out of egypt and you know the rest of the story.

So basically any of the bible before moses is made up and most of the bible after moses is also pretty much lies as well no offence.

So see it was all made up back in the day by some Pharoah who wanted to be seen as the only god.

Although on a side note the basic ideas and morals put into the bible are founded on Good and living by them is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Daikarin]

Er... And that can also be traced back to the days of the Neanderthal man, where one would also have the idea of inventing up gods for every unnatural force he didn't understand.

[Scejntjynahl]

Man, this thread is still active...??? @_@`

Can't everyone notice this thing is like beating a dead horse!

God exist, God doesnt exist, this book said so, this book written by man, man created by God, man created by chance, science answers many things, science leaves more questions than answers, do I have a soul, is there a heaven, is there a hell, is it here, are we at fault, why is there misery, why is there pain, what of miracles, etc etc etc...

All of these notions, ideas, beliefs, faith, facts, opinions, can never be truly satisfied.

Simply put it this way. I go to a restaurant, have Lemmon Pepper chicken, and I completely enjoy it. Tell a friend that it is good, and he goes, tryies it, and also enjoys it... and he repeats the cycle. Before you know it, a whole group of us have the same notion. That Lemon Pepper chicken is the best at that "restaurant"

Then I have a friend from out of town come to visit, I take him there also. But he doesnt like it at all, actually hates it! Me and my other friends automatically question him why? He says at his home town there this pizzeria that he really enjoys, and his friends think so too.

So one thing leads to another, and we begin to compare locales, prices, recipes, environment, each of us swearing that ours is the best. We accuse each other of not knowing what a good dish is... things escalate... and friendships suffer.

So he returns to his home, swearing to let his friends know how terrible our restaurant's Lehmon Pepper chicken tastes, and we say the same thing of his pizzeria.

Childish no? Religion in a nutshell. What is really sad about this, is that we both failed to see the similarities between both restaurants... they both feed us, they both satisfy our hunger, and they both satisfy our taste buds. Both restaurants work for both of us in a different way, but same result, we get a full tummy.

@_@

[hollowtip]

Like someone said earlier, religious and non-religious zealots are annoying and overbearing period, especially if their background on the subject is coming from a hypocritical stance like yours is Kafka. Who is to say there is a god, who is to say there is not? Do you have some special knowledge that will enlighten everybody else in the world about what is the definitive truth?

I will never understand why people think they have all the answers. Nobody on this earth has all the answers, and nobody will have all the answers.

But you do bring up an interesting point I do agree with. Conforming to a specific discipleship limits your ability to have an open mind. Your mention of the "Kafka" religion is a great way to emphasize that people need to have their own beliefs, instead of mindlessly claiming hierarchy religious an non-religious disciples are fact of the matter. Why make yourself apart of a group of people that tells you what to think when you as a human being have the ability to critically think for yourself?

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha

Just because I believe in this quote doesn't make me a Budhist.

[Armok]

To sum up

Extreme Belief is bad (murder in name of god, holy wars, terrorism)

Basing your life on a system of beliefs is good (respect the neighbour)

Oh and to all the ppl who say I don't believe in god:
Lets see you take that belief into a life threatening situation and not end up praying for any kind of help.

[Scejntjynahl]

*sigh*
Had something to say, but, I forgot it.

[KaFKa]

On 2004-03-24 08:32, hollowtip wrote:
Like someone said earlier, religious and non-religious zealots are annoying and overbearing period, especially if their background on the subject is coming from a hypocritical stance like yours is Kafka.

how is it a hypocritical standpoint? i've seen religioin from both ends (yeah, i grew up in a semi-catholic household) and i know what it is to have faith in a god. and no, im not a zealot, if i were i would be endlessly preaching on this little soap box of mine.


Who is to say there is a god, who is to say there is not? Do you have some special knowledge that will enlighten everybody else in the world about what is the definitive truth?

yeah, its because I said so! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

(note the sarcasm)


But you do bring up an interesting point I do agree with. Conforming to a specific discipleship limits your ability to have an open mind. Your mention of the "Kafka" religion is a great way to emphasize that people need to have their own beliefs, instead of mindlessly claiming hierarchy religious an non-religious disciples are fact of the matter. Why make yourself apart of a group of people that tells you what to think when you as a human being have the ability to critically think for yourself?

i agree with you here http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha

Buddha was quite a wise fellow, i've read most of the stuff written about him and his 'teachings', and i agree with most everything he says





On 2004-03-23 20:03, Prof_Frink wrote:
Ever read Inherit the Wind? The Bible says "seven days", but it's not like the bible to be literal. Seven days could mean any amount of time divided into seven sections.

while this may be true, there are also many parts of the old testament that are meant to be taken quite literally. (i would dig up quotes and exerpts, but i dont have any material regarding the bible around)


(I'm just making the counter argument. I don't actually believe in the things I'm saying.)

well, at least Frink is a good debater http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif




On 2004-03-23 23:33, _Sinue_ wrote:
Personally, I don't really see where he was trying to "Shove his beliefs" down our throats. He stated his opinion.. kind of crudely.. but alright.

it was stated crudely, and it was meant to be harsh, rude, and overall not very nice. i needed to vent, and PSOW happened to be the forum i was on when that last mormon knocked on the door...


I AM Roman Catholic. I believe in Christ and the Holy Trinity. I believe in the ressurection and comming of the kingdom of heaven. I believe in it so strongly, that I would personally rather die than have someone strip my religeon away from me.

and that is what you believe, who am I to say that you should and shouldnt believe in? you have your faith, and stand by it strongly. and i respect you for that.


By all rights, I should be offened by Kafka's opinions about my religeon right?

I'm not.

Why?

Because it's MY religeon. Not his. I am secure in my beliefs and my faith. I love my god, and Kafka's opinions aren't going to change that. So why not let him speak his mind? If someone else hears his rant, and is shaken in faith, then perhaps they should have been shaken and try to find a faith (or no faith) that suits them better. Who are you (or I) to judge what is right for someone?

agreed


Someones I think the same ideal behind the "Homophobes usually tend to harbor homosexual thoughts" line works with religeous zelots also. They have to reaffirm their faith by defending it and "proving it right" because it's not that strong in the first place. Sorry if that sounded like a personal attack on anyone.. but it has been a thought that I've considered.

and something i've noticed as well. if you have to reaffirm everything for yourself regularly, then maybe you should question your faith. if you dont believe strongly enough, then you should be finding something else to believe in (this goes for many of the people over on the wiz0 boards, those religious nutjobs)



On 2004-03-24 09:06, Armok wrote:
Oh and to all the ppl who say I don't believe in god:
Lets see you take that belief into a life threatening situation and not end up praying for any kind of help.

i've been in life threatening situations before, and no, i didnt pray for any kind of help, because there was only one thing that was going to save me, and thats myself



On 2004-03-23 18:24, Allos wrote:
And have you taken any classes on Theology Kafka? Not that I'm trying to push my Christian beliefs on you (because once in a while even I question his existence, and although I'm a believer, I'm not hyper-religious) but the courses I took provide good insight into God and creation.


nope, never took classes on theology. and frankly, i dont want to, because for me, there is no point in going to them

to ABDUR: wise words as always, all i have to say is that i agree with 75% of what you've said

[Hrith]

On 2004-03-23 13:10, New Ultimate wrote:


On 2004-03-23 12:00, KaFKa wrote:
fuck atheism as well, thats almost as bad as most religions out there. i can go on and on about my thoughts on religion, but that would just get me banned for the amount of inflammatory remarks i have to say about it.

Just fuck anyone, religious or not, is that what you're saying? Interesting point of view, Einstein.
You missed an interesting point from KaFKa. People are not divided among religious and atheists, people can be none, I hate it when people think not believing means atheism, it is such a pain x_x
It is yet another proof that religion blinds people, closes their mind, and divides people.

[Daikarin]

On some date I don't remember, Kef said:
_________________________________________


You missed an interesting point from KaFKa. People are not divided among religious and atheists, people can be none, I hate it when people think not believing means atheism, it is such a pain x_x
It is yet another proof that religion blinds people, closes their mind, and divides people.



Funny you say that, because I said before that I'm neither religious or atheist. I didn't miss that point, I'm a living example of it.

But with that I agree: Dividing the world into believers and non-believers is what makes Bin Laden and his gang terrorise the world.

[KodiaX987]

Funny question: I wonder if it's possible to go on a crusade to defend agnostism.

[Hrith]

On 2004-03-24 13:31, KodiaX987 wrote:
Funny question: I wonder if it's possible to go on a crusade to defend agnostism.
Spell it right, Smooth Criminal http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[BogusKun]

On 2004-03-24 11:25, New Ultimate wrote:


On some date I don't remember, Kef said:
_________________________________________


You missed an interesting point from KaFKa. People are not divided among religious and atheists, people can be none, I hate it when people think not believing means atheism, it is such a pain x_x
It is yet another proof that religion blinds people, closes their mind, and divides people.



Funny you say that, because I said before that I'm neither religious or atheist. I didn't miss that point, I'm a living example of it.

But with that I agree: Dividing the world into believers and non-believers is what makes Bin Laden and his gang terrorise the world.



Ugh. I hate being called an "Atheist".

[SpikeOtacon]

I do not have a religion. But that does not make me athiest. I can agree with KaFKa's statement on how I believe that god does not exist, but I don't TELL you that he doesn't exist. You believe what you want, I don't care. Just as long as you don't bother me with it.

[Shanris_1]

I'm going to make this as brief as I can...I don't think this whole thread really is so much about religion itself, but more the preaching of religions. As of yet not a single person has seemed to acknowledge the fact I've been posting...but thats fine, I add in my two cents worth anyways. Anyways, back on subject...KaFKa is completely in the right, as far as I am concerned, about being livid about preachers. Not everyone wants to hear it/convert to it. Heck, I sure as hell fall into that category. I only say this about my beliefs, they are mine, and mine alone. If you wish to know of them and ask, I will tell you only then, and not until. That's how it should be, and form everything I'm seeing here, the rest of you think the same thing. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[LollipopLolita]

as far as i am concerned, this thread is full of pontification, and i already posted saying that it's against our rules. and once you're guilty of pontification, it doesn't make you look any smarter. irony is it's pontification about pontification.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LollipopLolita on 2004-03-24 17:30 ]</font>

[Daikarin]

There's another point here:

What's with all those churches that hang around a giant banner saying

"CONVERSION IS YOUR ONLY SALVATION"

Seriously, if I don't go to church or anything will that make me worse than anyone else? Geez, I don't do that Meca (Don't know the english name for it, the middle-east city) travel, which Allah followers have to do once a year, and I'm happy. I'm pretty sure that if He is out there, he wouldn't be have a human attitude as letting himself negligence someone else because that someone else doesn't follow rituals imposed by a religion.

Which brings me to another point. One of these days I'm gonna go into a catholic church and ask the priest:

- Father, if I have a brother who doesn't believe in God but in Allah, will he go to hell?

Of course not. The priest will most likely ask if he's a good person, with morals and ethics. About his personality, his way of life. That's what really matters, it's not which religion you follow, because there's truth in all of them.

P.S.: I don't believe in hell. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: New Ultimate on 2004-03-25 03:56 ]</font>

[Armok]

I think the Rabbits point of view:

Eat, sleep, breed and only worry about staying away from foxes and don't think about this kind of shit.

[KodiaX987]

On 2004-03-24 15:09, Kef wrote:

Spell it right, Smooth Criminal http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Oh, was it actually agnosticism? I didn't remember which of the two words was the correct one.

[Scejntjynahl]

On 2004-03-25 04:04, Armok wrote:
I think the Rabbits point of view:

Eat, sleep, breed and only worry about staying away from foxes and don't think about this kind of shit.





http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_bunny.gif

I was going to add more ideas and point of views, but the above statement hits the mark.

[KaFKa]

On 2004-03-25 04:04, Armok wrote:
I think the Rabbits point of view:

Eat, sleep, breed and only worry about staying away from foxes and don't think about this kind of shit.




cant argue with that http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[LollipopLolita]

On 2004-03-25 04:04, Armok wrote:
I think the Rabbits point of view:

Eat, sleep, breed and only worry about staying away from foxes and don't think about this kind of shit.





mmm the only part that doesn't work is if the rabbit has been neutered!

but i agree, what the hell is the point. doesn't add to my life constructively anyhow.

[Majadamus]

On 2004-03-25 04:04, Armok wrote:
I think the Rabbits point of view:

Eat, sleep, breed and only worry about staying away from foxes and don't think about this kind of shit.






I don't see nothing more to life than that. Besides lifelong goals, that's about it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Sagasu]

Ah, the religious faith, now what we have here, is a conspiracy that dates back to the cavemen who worshipped the volcanoe god.

Though I am athiest, I don't mind religious people, I love some and hate others, thats life, neh?

Yet all religions came from a source, a reason for being created, this goes out to you whether you believe in one or not.

There are many, many religions out there. Yet out of all of them, one seems to reign over the others by the sheer amount of people who believe in their cause. This is mainly true because of missionaries travelling by ship from spain, england, portugal, etc. from the mid 1500's to the very second of today. The christian faith has quite the colorful past, actually.

Wars, to many wars fought between the england and dutch alliance against the spanish and the portuguese because of their conflictory segments of the cristian bible. Those who followed strictly to the old testament, and those bound to the new. I'm not an expert in the area myself, but I do have some limited knowledge.

The holy popes actually played some prostiegeous roles in expanding their branch of the bible into the east. But generally, their purposes became muddled and contorted by the main trade that they began backboning. They would open up trade, and gain favor to open up monastaries to begin the conversion.

By the time the english and the dutch reached asia, their influence had stretched all the way to japan.
____

Back on topic, some religions are more dominating. A lot of catholics I know hold other religious people in disdain, such as Buddihsts and the like. My own mother, was christian, but now is muslim, and my grandparents, catholics, don't really give her the respect she deserves http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

Right, to the point, if I had one. Not all religoins should be mashed up together. Some are a mere way of life, others a strict code to abide by. So its really not fair to stereotype them together, you cannot accuratley have a real vision of the term religion, unless you know of several.

This can, and has gone on for years. Faith, its all a matter of your faith. A christian might believe that if she's dying, then its gods will. They have faith in their god. But there's other examples of faith too.

Humans will do the most nonsensicle things. A man, because in his faith for his lover, will try to hold onto her despite the differances, untill they are ripped apart. Same goes vice versa...

If you condemn the word religion, you condemn them all. Please think about that you say, and how you say it.

[Armok]

Nice to see alot of other ppl can relate to the 'animals just get on with it so why can't we' idea.