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Zzzzzz
May 3, 2004, 03:09 PM
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Zzzzzz/whereisvoldo.jpg
A all new book series for children! Also look for:

"Nightmare's Hide & Seek!"
"Where in the world is the Souledge?"
"Taki-" Eh, let's not go there.

HUnewearl_Meira
May 3, 2004, 03:35 PM
And amusing pun, yes, but Voldo is the true essense of the potential evil behind all creativity.

And quite a contributor to my dislike of those games...

I'm going to refrain from going on that rant here, though.

EDIT: I might comment though... The thing that scares me the most, is that somewhere out there, there is someone at this very moment, becoming sexually arroused by watching Voldo fight. If this thought doesn't disturb you enough to stay away from the game for at least a few hours, then there very well may be something wrong with you.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-05-03 13:37 ]</font>

Sef
May 3, 2004, 03:39 PM
That boy aint right.

FOAtHeart
May 3, 2004, 03:48 PM
On 2004-05-03 13:39, Sef wrote:
That boy aint right.



Voldo's a boy?

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif


I can imagine Voldo:

"I'LL BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR YOU BABY"

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Sef
May 3, 2004, 03:54 PM
I meant whoever was being arroused...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

FOAtHeart
May 3, 2004, 03:57 PM
On 2004-05-03 13:54, Sef wrote:
I meant whoever was being arroused...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



oh ok. gotcha http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Outrider
May 3, 2004, 06:36 PM
But Voldo is indeed a guy. Let's make sure that point gets across.

Dragon_Ash
May 3, 2004, 07:29 PM
On 2004-05-03 13:35, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:


EDIT: I might comment though... The thing that scares me the most, is that somewhere out there, there is someone at this very moment, becoming sexually arroused by watching Voldo fight. If this thought doesn't disturb you enough to stay away from the game for at least a few hours, then there very well may be something wrong with you.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-05-03 13:37 ]</font>


I never liked voldo... now i don't like him even more http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_barf.gif

even my friend says he looks like a leather clad sadist/masochist XD

Outrider
May 3, 2004, 08:15 PM
On 2004-05-03 17:29, Dragon_Ash wrote:
even my friend says he looks like a leather clad sadist/masochist XD



Well, that's that he is, after all.

I still think he's probably an awesome character to use in SCII if you can learn how to use him. I've never tried, and I don't think I will anytime soon.

Bradicus
May 3, 2004, 08:40 PM
Last time i saw him, he was guest starring in Hellboy http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif
http://www.creature-corner.com/graphics4/kroenen.jpg

KaFKa
May 3, 2004, 08:57 PM
On 2004-05-03 17:29, Dragon_Ash wrote:
even my friend says he looks like a leather clad sadist/masochist XD



and whats wrong with S&M!?

Cowboy
May 3, 2004, 09:00 PM
http://www.imomus.com/pixie.gif

Dragon_Ash
May 3, 2004, 09:02 PM
i find nothing wrong with it, but the thought of voldo doing sm and someone beiong aroused by it is too much XD

Sef
May 3, 2004, 09:04 PM
Throw in a goat for good measure.

Mixfortune
May 3, 2004, 10:32 PM
On 2004-05-03 18:40, Bradicus wrote:
Last time i saw him, he was guest starring in Hellboy http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif
http://www.creature-corner.com/graphics4/kroenen.jpg



Don't tell me you actually saw that movie...
It. Was. Bad.

Outrider
May 4, 2004, 02:40 AM
On 2004-05-03 20:32, Mixfortune wrote:
It. Was. Bad.



Yes. Yes it was.

Zzzzzz
May 4, 2004, 11:27 AM
What don't get is the people who don't like Yoshimitshu but think Voldo is cool because he's "evil and has knives." Come on! Yoshi is the most likable character in the game!

http://www.soulcalibur.com/images/smilies/z_voldo3.gif<--Weird

http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/images/smilies/z_yoshimitsusc22.gif<--Likable

And to remind you all this is FKL...

http://www.soulcalibur.com/images/smilies/z_cass.gif<---Hot

KodiaX987
May 4, 2004, 12:04 PM
Yoshimitsu?! No, hell no. He's good all right, but I prefer Astaroth by far. He has the pride of the dwarves without the body of one. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

HUnewearl_Meira
May 4, 2004, 12:12 PM
On 2004-05-04 09:27, Zzzzzz wrote:
What don't get is the people who don't like Yoshimitshu but think Voldo is cool because he's "evil and has knives." Come on! Yoshi is the most likable character in the game!



The thing about it is that he doesn't use knives, either. He uses a device called a Katar, which was designed to be stabbed into someone's torso, opened, then torn out. It's basically 3 blades that're placed together, and work like a pair of scissors, except kinda in reverse. This is a weapon that originated in the Middle-East. Voldo is an Italian Hermit. What. The. Hell.

In all honesty, I'm appauled that such lethal and otherwise malicious weapons are used in this game, but so little damage is inflicted with them. Having a guy running around with a Katar and not killing people when he stabs them or worse yet, spins them on it is really quite unsatisfying.

I mean really, I'm fairly good at the game. It doesn't pose a frustrating challenge to me, and yet, it's not too easy for me, either. It's just that it irritates me to no end to beat a guy to the floor with the largest sharp piece of metal known to man, and watch them hop back up like nothing happened. WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT of having a weapon that is less likely to kill someone than if you were to just sucker-punch them in the breadbasket? This is precisely why I hate this game. You have the problem of all fighting games where you have a purposeless fight, and you add on top of that, the problem that the physics that the weapons go by totally removes the advantage of having a weapon.

Most fighting games don't bother me much. Fighters aren't my favorite genre by a long shot. I do enjoy seeing a good fight, but I find that Fighters do a terrible job of producing anything that looks even remotely realistic, and even if they did indeed look rather real, there's still the problem that for the most part, the fights are basically meaningless. Still, this doesn't really annoy me very much, possibly because most (recent) games actually TRY to make something meaningful out of at least some of the fights (the first time you come across a pair, they say something to eachother, and you're like, "Whoa! These two KNOW eachother!").

Soul Calibur on the other hand... I just can't see the premise work. I just can't comprehend how it's so popular. It honestly makes me irrationally upset at people for making something so incredibly thoughtless so incredibly popular.

And just look at Soul Calibur II. It's the SAME DAMN GAME! There is little or no difference in the gameplay, and again, no discernable difference in the graphics. It's a complete and total re-hash of the original with a few refined control quirks, and a handful of new characters. Why the hell was this game so heavily anticipated? There's really nothing all that special about it, if you really look at it. It's like... Gee... You can use Link, Spawn or Hiachi, depending on the console you bought it for. Yay. Whoop-tee-doo. My life is complete, now that I get to bastardize a familiar character by subjecting them to foam-rubber physics. Maybe if they chose Master Chief instead of Spawn. It might actually be fun to watch someone get shot in the head with a sniper rifle, then see them promptly get back up, as though nothing happened.

Robo47
May 4, 2004, 12:15 PM
On 2004-05-04 10:12, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Maybe if they chose Master Chief instead of Spawn. It might actually be fun to watch someone get shot in the head with a sniper rifle, then see them promptly get back up, as though nothing happened.


we think alike! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Mainly they threw in Spawn because he needed more popularity before his own game was eleased and because Todd McFarlene is a greedy bastard.(HE GETS TWO CHARACTERS ON X-BOX AND ONE ON PS2 AND GC?!?!)

I forgot the demon green guys name...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robo47 on 2004-05-04 10:18 ]</font>

Zzzzzz
May 4, 2004, 12:22 PM
Eh, but if it's too realistic it wouldn't be any fun. I mean, there's some games that are realistic and fun but ain't a simulator (Donky Kong. You fall 15 feet and land? You die.) but if we had it like that, how many first person games would people buy?
("WHAT? YOU SHOT ME IN THE LEG AND I CAN'T WALK?"
"Yup. *shots at side and other player dies*"
repeat process.)

KodiaX987
May 4, 2004, 12:40 PM
On 2004-05-04 10:12, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

This is a weapon that originated in the Middle-East. Voldo is an Italian Hermit. What. The. Hell.
According to the character profile, Voldo's master was a merchant who traveled all over the world and who brought back a lot of stuff. The katars were one of these things, so Voldo decided to pick these up and train with them.


In all honesty, I'm appauled that such lethal and otherwise malicious weapons are used in this game, but so little damage is inflicted with them. Having a guy running around with a Katar and not killing people when he stabs them or worse yet, spins them on it is really quite unsatisfying.
If all fighting games were realistic to the bone, you'd get instant kills every second, considering all the letal moves each character does. Players want to give more than just one shot in a fight, so the developers make things the way they are now. I like SC because each weapon prompts a different style. With Astaroth, I need a thoughtful and methodical way of fighting or else my opponent easily dodges my shots. I'm not good at Taki because I can't get used to her cooldown after almost every combo she does. With Cervantes, I can put an immense amount of pressure on my opponent, but I must watch my low power and rather fragile health bar.

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. We need un-realism in fighting games or else things just won't look as nice. So Ruy and Ken couldn't ever do that Hadoken move in real life. The gamers don't care, they think it's cool. So, the developers follow. This is why Rugal can do his spin combo. This is why Vice can chain five frankeinsteiners in succession. This is why Ein/Hayate is able to snap his opponent's neck with no visible effect than making the guy fall down and stay on the floor for a few seconds.

If you're looking for a true-to-the-core swordfighting game, go for Bushido Blade for the PSX. In this game, you can hurt each of your opponent's limbs, and you can, if you aim properly, kill your opponent in one shot. You get a choice of ten characters, and ten traditional Asian weapons.

HUnewearl_Meira
May 4, 2004, 12:44 PM
On 2004-05-04 10:22, Zzzzzz wrote:
Eh, but if it's too realistic it wouldn't be any fun. I mean, there's some games that are realistic and fun but ain't a simulator (Donky Kong. You fall 15 feet and land? You die.) but if we had it like that, how many first person games would people buy?
("WHAT? YOU SHOT ME IN THE LEG AND I CAN'T WALK?"
"Yup. *shots at side and other player dies*"
repeat process.)



For cartoony games, the stretching of physics is in no way unforgiveable. As far as FPS's go... Some of the more recent titles are some of the most physically realistic games ever made.

I actually do recall a game for the PlayStation though (I wish I could remember the name; I'd go buy it), that featured somewhat realistic damage. It wasn't a fighting game, more of an action/adventure title about two feuding families in feudal Japan. If someone got your arm with a katana, then that arm became useless. One-hit kills were extremely possible. Blocking with your sword was possible. The mechanics were just well thought-out. You don't see that at all in Soul Calibur, though.

And really, I'm not saying that Soul Calibur should be changed. I'm saying that the entire premise is rather bad. If any changes should be made to it, I'd say that the control setup needs a major overhaul to allow greater manuverability, so focus can be more on avoiding damage and countering, to make realistic damage plausible. I'd doubt that they would do that though, because it'd be quite difficult to balance each character, seeing that certain weapons have an obvious advantage over others in the hands of those who are capable of using such weapons (Katana VS. Nunchuku? Yeah).

Personally, if I were to come across a fighting game focused on dodging and countering with weapons, THAT would get my attention, and it might even hold it for a while.

KodiaX987
May 4, 2004, 12:48 PM
On 2004-05-04 10:44, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

If any changes should be made to it, I'd say that the control setup needs a major overhaul to allow greater manuverability, so focus can be more on avoiding damage and countering, to make realistic damage plausible.

That's my only frustration. In SC, I need to double-tap the controller in order to begin a free step. However, the AI has no controller, he can do it at will, with no delay, and thus avoid shots I can't avoid myself. I would've loved the analog to be a default freestep like in Dead or Alive 2... However, I wouldn't change the H-V-K buttons at all.

HUnewearl_Meira
May 4, 2004, 01:07 PM
On 2004-05-04 10:48, KodiaX987 wrote:
However, I wouldn't change the H-V-K buttons at all.



I'd rather have a conditional button setup. To simply dodge an attack is... Crude. Viable. But crude. All these martial artists, and the best they know how to do is side-step? Please. Let's take Maxi for example. Do you know what one of the big advantages of Nunchuku is? The ability to catch someone's weapon and disarm them. This can be done because the Nunchuku have great speed, and the ability to, well, catch things. Personally, I'd far prefer to be able to use that advantage, instead of hitting the button once, and waiting five minutes or so for Maxi to stop twirling those damned things around like a drum major.

Basically a defensive and offensive mode, depending on who attacks who first. The ability to avoid someone's attack, and counter, and the possibility of being counter-countered, if your opponent knows what they're doing.

This is really the problem of all fighting games. Nothing moves fluidly. At all. Every kick is the same. Every punch is the same. Every fall is identical to the last, regardless of how they were hit. It doesn't matter if it was a boot to the head, or a giant shield to the gut. It's all the same, and even Phantasy Star III was less repetitive.

In any case, the use of weapons has quite a bit of potential in the game, but the end result is just another game built on top of a rather generic 3D fighter engine. It seems as though its only saving grace is that it has nice graphics. Ever thought about what happens to other games that use a generic engine? Look at Star Wars Episode 1: POD RACER. That game owed any popularity it had entirely to that "STAR WARS" logo on its cover-- it was really nothing more than a racing game with a generic racing engine, including generic environmental effects, as well (how in the hell does a flying vehicle slide on ice?).

Think about it. What's the real difference between the way Soul Calibur plays and the way Tekken plays? The only difference really, is the characters involved and the graphics. The presence of Yoshimitsu and Hiachi in both series, with very little deviation I might add, should be enough to point out that you can take a character from one game, plop him into another, and it doesn't really matter.

So really, what makes this game special?

Zzzzzz
May 4, 2004, 01:38 PM
Eh, actually, you can dodge opponets attacks by using moves that move you in a different direction. A bit hard to explain and takes luck in order to pull it off.

Mixfortune
May 4, 2004, 01:53 PM
It looks rather silly to dodge an attack by starting your own attack into thin air, yes?

Rainbowlemon
May 4, 2004, 03:03 PM
Me likes voldo for his psycho wheel explosion thingy attack. That's about it.

Now Taki, that's a different story...I'm proud to say I have mastered every single move that taki has to perfection, incluiding the soul charge + (vertical then down) attack. Bring it ooonn!

_Ted_
May 4, 2004, 05:37 PM
On 2004-05-04 00:40, Outrider wrote:


On 2004-05-03 20:32, Mixfortune wrote:
It. Was. Bad.



Yes. Yes it was.



BLARG!

KodiaX987
May 4, 2004, 08:28 PM
On 2004-05-04 11:07, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

I'd rather have a conditional button setup. To simply dodge an attack is... Crude. Viable. But crude. All these martial artists, and the best they know how to do is side-step? Please. Let's take Maxi for example. Do you know what one of the big advantages of Nunchuku is? The ability to catch someone's weapon and disarm them. This can be done because the Nunchuku have great speed, and the ability to, well, catch things. Personally, I'd far prefer to be able to use that advantage, instead of hitting the button once, and waiting five minutes or so for Maxi to stop twirling those damned things around like a drum major.
In the developer's point of view, the use of Nunchakus as weapon grabbers would make Maxi very, very cheap - and he's already cheap enough as it is!


Basically a defensive and offensive mode, depending on who attacks who first. The ability to avoid someone's attack, and counter, and the possibility of being counter-countered, if your opponent knows what they're doing.
There's the possibility of counters in Dead or Alive 2 but I think they overdid it. One of my friends quickly took it to advantage and he KOed me by simply accomplishing reversals on me, seeing as about 5 or 6 of them will effectively kill you. Soul Calibur has something nice going with the guard impact but it's far too weak, as you and your opponent both recoil, therefore bringing you back to your starting point, and dangerously close to your enemy! At this point, it's a quick draw match. My version of a reversal would've been to just catch the shot, give back a low-damage hit and let the guy go.


This is really the problem of all fighting games. Nothing moves fluidly. At all. Every kick is the same. Every punch is the same. Every fall is identical to the last, regardless of how they were hit. It doesn't matter if it was a boot to the head, or a giant shield to the gut. It's all the same, and even Phantasy Star III was less repetitive.
Some games incorporate characters making body movements based on where they were hit but because you do a combo, and usually slam your opponent on the ground, you never get to see that animation. For example, if in Dead or Alive 2, I punch my opponent in the face, he will reach for his face. If I knee him in the gut, he'll recoil and bend over. If I kick his crotch, he'll reach for his crotch. But since single hits don't make the battle, I gotta keep going and I never see that animation. In Soul Calibur, there's more or less the same thing. Again on the developer's point of view, you can only go as far animation-wise. At one point, you need to cut down on some things, and personally, the way the guy will fall over will be a secondary worry to me.

If you check the command list in Soul Calibur, you'll notice some characters have "fake" moves and different stances. So using Nightmare, at the end of such or such swing, I can either choose to swing again, take my high stance, or start a swing but actually take my high stance to deceive my opponent. Of course, this is useless against an AI. However, against a human, it's another pair of sleeves altogether. My games of Dead or Alive 2 against my friend were very psychological, and we kept doing deceiving moves to each other to try to break each other's guards, and figure out each other's patterns. The core of any fighting game is as deep as how the players make it. It's certain that a button masher won't find much deepness in the game. But lately, I've realized how useful a technique can work, especially in Soul Calibur, where I need to time my shots very well to catch my opponent off-guard.


In any case, the use of weapons has quite a bit of potential in the game, but the end result is just another game built on top of a rather generic 3D fighter engine. It seems as though its only saving grace is that it has nice graphics. Ever thought about what happens to other games that use a generic engine? Look at Star Wars Episode 1: POD RACER. That game owed any popularity it had entirely to that "STAR WARS" logo on its cover-- it was really nothing more than a racing game with a generic racing engine, including generic environmental effects, as well (how in the hell does a flying vehicle slide on ice?).
I couldn't speak about Star Wars Racer seeing as I've never played it. But in the matter of a game being generic, I ask the following question: do you have a better idea? Consider you possibly have time and financial and technological constraints. Do you really have a better idea? In my opinion, given the time, the makers of Soul Calibur did a very fine job with the game. The next day, I played Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. I found myself fighting to even accomplish combos, with horrible control schemes, and absolutely outdated graphics.


Think about it. What's the real difference between the way Soul Calibur plays and the way Tekken plays? The only difference really, is the characters involved and the graphics. The presence of Yoshimitsu and Hiachi in both series, with very little deviation I might add, should be enough to point out that you can take a character from one game, plop him into another, and it doesn't really matter.
I've played a bit of Tekken 3 and the entire group, me and 3 friends, had some trouble actually doing combos. We didn't have an instruction manual, so we didn't know if there was a set scheme or if there was something we were doing wrong - but we spent a half-hour trying to beat each other up with single swings and extremely rigid controls, which I didn't like at all.

Dead or Alive 2 was the opposite altogether: you could chain so easily that a newbie could beat a master by sole button-mashing once in a while. Just the fact that it's possible isn't good at all.

In-between all this are the 2D fighter games, which summarize to doing a jump, a dropkick, combo for as long as you're still close to your opponent, end with a classic long-range Hadoken, rinse and repeat.

So yes, most fighters look pretty similar to each other. The difference, however, is crucial: does the game play well? If the controls work, and you can get the hang of your character pretty fairly after a few fights, then I have no complaints. This is all a fighting game is about. There's no bonus items or health packs or refills or any of that stuff. The premise is: two guys, they fight. That's all.

Zzzzzz
May 4, 2004, 08:52 PM
The thing that would make SCII better, though, is being able to knock weapons out of people's hands like in SoulEdge. Of course, then again, maybe not.