S vs H....pointless, but fun?!

[DarthFomar]

Ok this topic has been brought up in the Rants-Dead Horse Society *Heated Debates* topic....and seeing as it is silly I thought I'd bring it to FKL.

So I added a poll for a little more fun too. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Who would win....Superman vs The Hulk. ***Please read the quotes below before you make your desicion*** http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[DarthFomar]

Here are a few quotes from a few Wise men at TheKryptionian.com Forums: {all quotes are from the original owners...I claim NONE of them, this is just for pointers}


*Azrael*


I'm gonna have to say, Heat Vision and Flight aside the Hulk would Win, Cause Supes Flying around Heat raying him would only make him mad, and we all know

THE MADDER HULK GETS THE STRONGER HULK GETS

We all know that the Hulk could take Superman and Thor with his hands tied behind his back. We all know that the Hulk is the strongest person on Earth and beyond but he is a lot more than just strength. He has a multitude of powers and abilities:

Unlimited Strength
All the incarnations of the Hulk, except for the Grey Hulk, can lift approximately 100 tons when calm. The Grey Hulk starts off at approximately 75 tons. As the familiar old addage goes, "the Madder the Hulk gets, the Stronger he gets." During times of high stress or anger, an increase in adrenaline causes the Hulk's strength to increase dramatically. There has never been a limit shown as to the highest strength the Hulk can reach thus it is assumed it is limitless. The Hulk has shown many incredible feats of the years, including holding up a 150 billion ton mountain during the Secret Wars and breaking open Onslaught's armor when the combined might of the rest of the world's heroes couldn't even make a scratch in it.

Leaping/Jumping Ability
The Hulks's leg muscles are augmented so much that the Hulk can travel miles in a single casual jump. Jumping is the standard mode of transportation for the less intelligent incarnations of the Hulk. The Hulk has been known to make it into the earth's atmosphere on a single leap. Given the strength of the leap and the angle of trajectory when landing, the Hulk can create large craters and limited seismic activity when landing.

Accelerated Healing
The Hulk has probably the quickest healing factor than anyone in the Marvel Universe, including Wolverine. Wounds that would be deadly to most other heroes takes just a short time for the Hulk to recover. During a battle with Vector, he repelled all of the skin off of the Hulk leaving just exposed flesh and muscle. It took the Hulk minutes to regain the mass and be completely healed. During a battle with Speedfreek, he cut the Hulk's stomach open with adamantium blades. The Hulk had to hold his stomach to prevent his insides from spilling out. Within minutes the wound had healed, but unfortunately the skin had healed around part of the Hulk's fingers. He had to rip his fingers out of his stomach and allow it to heal again. It should be noted that during the transformation from Bruce Banner to one of the various incarnations of the Hulk and back, he gains and loses large amounts of mass. The source of this mass is unknown. The amount of mass transfered is dependent on the incarnation, such as the Grey Hulk has much less mass than most of the other incarnation.

Resistance to Mind Control
The Hulk has always shown an ability to resist mind control. This is probably due to the fact that there are multiple personalities residing in the Hulk's mind and a person can not control all of them at once as they offer resistance.

Unusual Mental Abilities
Bruce was always afraid of his father and when he accidently killed him, he blocked the incident in his mind. He still had a fear that his father would come back to get him so when Bruce turned into the Hulk, he gave himself the ability to see ghosts so that he could see his father coming for him. This ability has also allowed him to see Dr. Strange's astral form while others can't. Another mental ability related to this is the fact that no matter where the Hulk is in the world, he can always instinctively find his way back to the site of the original Gamma Bomb explosion in the desert. This was discovered to be caused by the spirit of the Maestro's remains calling the Hulk back so that he could absorb gamma radiation and reform.

High Resistance/High Durability
The high tensile strength of the Hulk's skin allows him protection from most modern artillery such as bullets, grenades, shells, and rockets. He can withstand concussive blasts, impacts from super-powered villians, and extreme high and low temperatures. He was once deep frozen by Ice Man for an extended period of time with no ill effects. He has withstood the vacuum of deep space a multitude of times. The Hulk is immune to all known Earth-based diseases, including AIDS. He can operate under intense conditions for extended periods of time due to his body not developing fatigue toxins quickly.


*gland*


In character, my friend. You'd be hard pressed to present a situation where Supes would throw even his worst enemy into the sun.

...at any rate, you can't say that Supes is stronger than Hulk, because the Hulk has no set level of strength. It varies, day to day, second to second. And most importantly, it has no upper limit.

...Hulk's endurance/duribility goes up along with his strength, thus getting madder also makes things such as heat vision progressively more useless against him.


*M'onel*


Hulk should be more properly portrayed as the ultimate unstoppable engine of raging destruction that he is.

Superman can properly go toe-to-toe with him for quite awhile, but eventually the same thing that happened in the Doomsday fight would happed here as well: Superman would exhaust his stores of solar energy while his efforts to stop the Hulk, while impressive, would only serve to enrage a monster who never quits anyway and make his strength grow beyond even Superman's limits.

So you see the Hulk.....*depending on if Superman can control the fight {by somehow keeping the hulks anger in check}*.....would eventually win the fight between these ubber Gods.

Superman did win, in one {possibly more?!} of the comics. But I can recall a comic around the middle of the 90's where the Hulk pulverized Superman. So they are both worthy adversaries....and both deserve to win. But it is really up to the fans to decide who wins. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DarthFomar]

***Also please post why you voted for whom you did {leave feedback basically}***

[Armok]

Hulk would lose hands down

No offence but back in the Onslaught days Hulk got his ass kicked by Cable for god sake and was a minor weak villain for the time. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Supermans too smart to just anger Hulk he would just wait for him to calm down. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Cross over comics are always BS show should never be taken seriously in an arguement like this. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


edit adds smilies just for fun http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Armok on 2004-05-11 03:34 ]</font>

[DarthFomar]

Like I said this is just for fun...please, I don't expect you take it seriously...duh?! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Have fun?!...

If Superman did wait for the Hulk to calm down {he would probably transform back to Bruce}. But seeing as the Hulk has a wide range of travel he could find Superman and continue on with the fight {so he wouldn't be calmed down}. The madder he gets the stronger...the longer Superman fights, the more his solar power is juiced thus leaving him dry and vulnerable. Just look at the Doomsday fight. The Hulk may not be able to defeat DOOMsday {I'm not really sure how strong he is *other than he killed Superman*}, but I'm sure he could've done better than Superman. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

....I do not know a whole lot about the different types of Superman forms. But I am referring to the normal Superman {the one ppl are used to}. So...

The Hulk would win...period. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
If it was the stronger version Superman he *might* loose...but oh well.

And btw the Hulk has become a lot more powerful since back in the day. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarthFomar on 2004-05-11 03:17 ]</font>

[Armok]

See thats exactly why I live in rants you ppl are all too happy and none serious http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

I've edited my post with smilies now... you happy..Storms off

[DarthFomar]

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

there that's the spirit..... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Bradicus]

HULK SMASH!

[Rainbowlemon]

Bubbles from the Powerpuff Girls would whoop all their asses. And leave time for pie.

[Outrider]

Ok, when Superman and Hulk fought in the 90s, that was Marvel vs. DC. They paired up a character from the Marvel universe and the DC universe. Scarlet Spider fought Superboy, Wolvering fought Batman (I think), and among other fights, Superman fought the Hulk

And Superman beat him.

It was during the Marvel vs. DC series that predated Amalgalm. Superman won. Explaining this for the third time now.

And Armok, to be fair, when they separated Banner from the Hulk, it was the Hulk that eventually beat Onslaught. If anything, Hulk has only gotten weaker since that point.

You do realize that the Hulk can't just automatically become stronger than a God, right? Because he has to actually get angry and get stronger. Superman is smart enough to deal with this. All he has to do is bring the Hulk up into space so he passes out and then place him back on Earth. Fight's over, Supes didn't kill, end of story.

And you don't honestly think that the Hulk could chase down Superman if he chose to run away, do you? Again, Superman is rivaled only by the speedsters of the DC universe. That's just below speed of light. And he can fly anywhere he wants. The Hulk has his jumps and his speed are nowhere near those levels.

Oh yeah, and the thing about Doomsday is everytime he dies, he comes back stronger. And Superman has beaten him every time he has faced him since. Therefore, Supes is much stronger than he was then. Just brought that up because of the comment comparing the Hulk to Superman.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

I'd say that the fight between Superman and Doomsday would be a sufficient example of how a fight between Superman and the Hulk would go.

Doomsday does, after all, provide an extreme of what the Hulk's abilities imply-- except that Doomsday is inherently superior in combat, as it is not subject to being phased by damage. Doomsday has no weaknesses, because it adapted to just about everything that could possibly be thrown at it. The only way to defeat it is by pure brute force.

Plus, if we're talking about Doomsday the second time Superman fought it, well, Doomsday would pwn the shit out of the Hulk, and Superman was right on par with it, even then; most especially considering that all of Superman's abilities had increased as much as Doomsday's had, as both do indeed share common origins, and they both therefore have the ability to be reborn stronger, and adapted to whatever it was that killed them (so even if the Hulk DID defeat Superman, the re-match would result much differently).

There's something else to consider here.

The Hulk is strong, and gets consistently stonger, yes, and while he has the ability to move very quickly, the Hulk is still subject to physics. The price of such speed and strength is a loss of manueverability. The Hulk has a LOT of mass, and as such, once he gets going, even he can't stop himself. The Hulk is also characterized by blind rage-- which means he attacks without thought.

Superman, however, is calm and cool through his fights. Also, though his strength can be generally compared to the Hulk's, due to his ability of true flight, Superman has the advantage of extreme manueverability. Superman also has the gift of intelligent thought, combined with decades of experience in battle. There are also very VERY few things that are capable of bruising him, or peircing his skin. Even Doomsday couldn't break any of Superman's bones.

Superman also has the dedication to see to it that his job is done, no matter what. It's a level of perseverance that cannot be reached by the Hulk, as the rage that fuels him will inevitably die down as physical exhaustion sets in; which is inevitable after too much adrenaline has gone through his bloodstream, and will be quickened with continued blows to his system, as a hero of Superman's stature would be capable of.

In the end, it's similar to the age old question of Brains vs. Brawn. It's been generally demonstrated that Brains usually wins, but if that weren't enough, Superman has Brains and Brawn, which makes the equation one of Brains and Brawn vs. Brawn alone.


Now, Superman vs. Gray Hulk... THAT would be a bit more interesting, as they'd both have brains in addition to brawn, but again, what Superman lacks in strength compared to The Hulk, he more than makes up for in other abilities that'd be rather useful in the fight.

So my money's on Superman.

[DarthFomar]

So what your saying is that Hulk wouldn't stand a chance in hell. I think you give him too LITTLE credit. He has defeated even the mightiest foes. The Hulk also may seem like he is blindly attacking and idiotic at times...but you have to remember Bruce Banner is still inside his head *he still thinks for himself...he is a big influence to the hulk when he is transformed*.

The Hulk can control himself {mentally and physically *to a certain extent, but a good means nonetheless*......but here's the thing *it is extremely difficult for him to do this when his anger levels are heightened*. In order for him to take control of the fight he would need to be angry....but not so angry that he couldn't think straight {if that happened, then Bruce wouldn't be able to control his Hulk form for the remainder of the fight...and he would probably loose}.


Superman beat the hulk in a Crossover, but the Hulk also beat him before. It might be a close fight. On a side note *if pre-crisis Supeperman is the stronger of his forms, the he would tear The Hulk to pieces!!!!!* {probablly}

Example of an actual conflict:

a) In "Hulk VS Superman" *comic*, the 2 fought three times:

- the first when they first encountered eatch other, and Hulk won;

- the second when Supes believed that Hulk had kidnapped Betty Ross, and Superman won;

- the third when Superman uncovered that Hulk didn't kidnap Betty, tried to apologise to him, but Hulk attacked him. That fight ended in a stalemate.

So, considering all these fights, it's clear that Supeperman and The Hulk stalemated each other.

b) the Superman in question wasn't pre-crisis Superman, but was Byrne/ pre DoS Superman, i.e. the weakest incarnation of Superman.

Superman can push his limits to their highest....but the Hulk has no limit....the madder he gets, the tougher {e.g. he gets stronger, slightly faster, and increases his durability tremendously, remember he also regenerates}.

And the Hulk wouldn't allow himself to be thrown into the Earth's Atmosphere, nor would he let Superman fly him to it so that he would pass out {also....very high altitudes can also have a *SLIGHT* effect on Superman too...but it shouldn't be anything he can't handle}. All the Hulk needs to do is bash superman in his face and he is free of his grasp.

It could really go either way. It all depends on the blows and momentum of the fight. But they both have a very good chance of becoming the victor.

[Sord]

On 2004-05-11 16:29, DarthFomar wrote:

It could really go either way. It all depends on the blows and momentum of the fight. But they both have a very good chance of becoming the victor.


that pretty much is it. I honestly think that the Hulk would win, but looking at everything, they both have a fair chance. The hulk also wouldn't tire out from so much adrenaline since he can recuperate. Adrenalin is nothing compared to, say, a broken leg. Also, one of the guys said the Hulk has withstood the vacuum of space several times. One could argue if that meant the force of being sucked into space or space in general, or if they just meant in space, with "vacuum" as an adjactive.

Also, Superman can only withstand space as long as he can hold his breath, even he needs a suit for long distance travel. Also, he wears down as well. Though as I said, it's pretty even. You could, say, have superman lead the Hulk miles out in the ocean and stare at him in frustration till it finally wears off and he's Bruce again... miles away from land. Or he could drug Bruce with anti-depressants or something, kill him in his sleep, ect.

[DarthFomar]

On 2004-05-11 16:29, DarthFomar wrote:

It could really go either way. It all depends on the blows and momentum of the fight. But they both have a very good chance of becoming the victor.



I just wanna re-state the obvious.... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Also, Superman can only withstand space as long as he can hold his breath, even he needs a suit for long distance travel. Also, he wears down as well. Though as I said, it's pretty even. You could, say, have superman lead the Hulk miles out in the ocean and stare at him in frustration till it finally wears off and he's Bruce again... miles away from land. Or he could drug Bruce with anti-depressants or something, kill him in his sleep, ect.



http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif I like your style Sord...those are excellent ideas....maybe we should make our own mini comic of this monumental brawl. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[DarthFomar]

I'm think about 8 weeks....that's how long it will take to make this mini comic....correct?!

[Outrider]

Except that's not true at all. Superman does NOT need to breath. It's been stated in the comic that the energy he gets from the yellow sun allows him to survive without oxygen. Go pick up any fairly recent comic with Superman in it and he's very easily in space as long as he wants. This also makes that comment about high altitudes completely moot. Superman can easily fly across the galaxy with incredible speed and no worry about oxygen.

That whole spacesuit dealy was only for the cartoon. And the cartoon Superman is far weaker than the comic version.

Plus, it wouldn't be a matter of Hulk not letting Superman launch him into space. He's superfast and superstrong. It happens before the Hulk even has a chance to react. And besides, he doesn't even have to fly the Hulk up into space (which as I stated would not be hard to do in any situation) as he could very easily launch the sucker. The Hulk has no way of preventing himself from exiting the atmosphere once Supes has done his job.

DarthFomar, where are you getting this other Hulk vs. Superman fight from? I can't find any mention of it anywhere. And if anything, you're hurting your argument. Superman was weaker before Death of Superman. He's much stronger now.

Ok, go see if you can find a copy of Action Comics 775. It's an excellent example of how incredibly powerful Superman is and how he uses his brains to end a fight. Plus it's a darn good read.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Outrider on 2004-05-12 00:19 ]</font>

[DarthFomar]

http://www.supermantv.net/comics/hulksuperman/Oldsuphu.jpg

Here!!!


I am not talking about the superman after the Doomsday fight...I am talking about the one before. And superman can't always breath in space...it's whether the writer wants him to or not... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

You have to admit....superman wouldn't just throw the Hulk into the sun....I don't remember him being so evil...do you?!

The Hulk would put up a better fight than you give him credit for...I can assure that! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I seem to remember a certain fight between Wendigo and the Hulk....and I'm pretty sure the Hulk won {but he didn't kill him seeing as *I think* he can't die}. If he can clobber the Wendigo {who pray tell isn't slow what so ever....he is actuall very lethal in combat}, he can surely stand a hell of a chance against Superman. The normal Superman isn't a god....so if he fought the Hulk....I think he would loose.

[Outrider]

On 2004-05-12 00:36, DarthFomar wrote:
http://www.supermantv.net/comics/hulksuperman/Oldsuphu.jpg

Here!!!



Ok, well I've just been told this was probably co-plotted by an artist... which is never a good thing. Plus, it's one of the minor inter-company crossovers that occured during the nineties. Not the major one. Heck, that counts as much as Punisher's trip to visit Archie and his friends at Riverdale.



I am not talking about the superman after the Doomsday fight...I am talking about the one before. And superman can't always breath in space...it's whether the writer wants him to or not... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


No, Superman does not need air. Period. There's no argument about this, as it's been stated in the comics and every single darn comic has shown this since. It's not just one writer adding something in like Geoff Johns saying speedsters that learn things at super speed forget them at super speed. It's canon, plain and simple.

And as I stated, Superman is much stronger than he was back then. Hulk probably got a bit stronger from that point, but he's much weaker than he was in the 90s.



You have to admit....superman wouldn't just throw the Hulk into the sun....I don't remember him being so evil...do you?!

The Hulk would put up a better fight than you give him credit for...I can assure that! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Again... Superman is not throwing him into the sun. There is no oxygen in space. The Hulk needs oxygen. His body is strong enough to withstand the pressure and extreme cold of space, but he will still lose conciousness if he loses his air. All Supes has to do is get him into space and the fight is over. All Supes has to do to make that happen is throw Hulk up.



I seem to remember a certain fight between Wendigo and the Hulk....and I'm pretty sure the Hulk won {but he didn't kill him seeing as *I think* he can't die}. If he can clobber the Wendigo {who pray tell isn't slow what so ever....he is actuall very lethal in combat}, he can surely stand a hell of a chance against Superman. The normal Superman isn't a god....so if he fought the Hulk....I think he would loose.


The Wendigo? Dude, Wolverine has been able to beat Wendigo from time to time. And comparing Wendigo's speed to Superman is just silly. In the Marvel universe, probably the fastest non-cosmic character is Northstar, who is a few machs above speed of sound. Superman is just below the Flash, who goes the speed of light. There's a huge difference there.

Just for reference, are you talking about an issue of Captain Marvel where the Hulk and Wendigo fight? From a few years ago, maybe? Because I think I've read that one. Good creative team there.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Outrider on 2004-05-12 00:58 ]</font>

[DarthFomar]

On 2004-05-12 00:55, Outrider wrote:
[quote]
Just for reference, are you talking about an issue of Captain Marvel where the Hulk and Wendigo fight? From a few years ago, maybe? Because I think I've read that one. Good creative team there.


Yeah, yeah, yeah...that's the one *I think*.


Anyway...let's say this is the Superman before DOOMSDAY, and the Ubber strong Hulk from the 90's. That seems like a fair match up. And for funs sake lets say Superman wouldn't be cheap and throw or haul the hulk in space {hell he's only done that to his worst enemies, the hulk is not really Superman's worst enemy so I don't think he would resort to such measures...seeing as he really doesn't need to do so with how powerful he is and all}. Cuz this should be a fair fight. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

What do you think of the outcome....?!

Superman {pre-doom} vs The Hulk {mid-late 90's)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarthFomar on 2004-05-12 01:26 ]</font>