Challenge Mode 101

[Chiana]

With people tiring of Ultimate Mode, endless leveling and owning every duped item in the game, there seems to have been a revival of interest recently in Challenge Mode. Perhaps because of this, there has been an influx of new players on Miranda 11 joining the existing cmode addicts community. Before I go any further, let me add that this is a GOOD THING! No-one is trying to be all precious and moan because loads of noobs have suddenly started invading Miranda. Anyone who wants to play for real and try challenge mode is cool in my books.

However, the Miranda blocks (11-13 and sometimes 14 when it gets busy), have been established for a long time, and have almost become their own community within PSO itself. As such, there are a few 'customary' ways of doing things that new people may not be familiar with. This can cause frustration and upset the balance of the community, but isn't usually the fault of the new people, because without being told, how are you going to know this?

For this reason, I thought it would be useful to write a few paragraphs for all those people who thought they might like to visit Miranda and kick some cmode butt with the rest of us.

Note: This is not a Cmode tactics FAQ. If you want to know how to play Cmode or learn the maps, try mamak-int.com. I don't consider myself the right person to try and teach you.

Team Names

Cmode teams (the list you see when you look for a game to join) are usually named using certain conventions. I'll concentrate on the English naming conventions, many of which are followed by Japanese players to a greater or lesser extent.

The name of a team is important, as it tells you a lot of information about the game. For example, a team name may look like:

"C7 TA 3Hu1Fo"

It's really not that difficult to work out what is being said here, but it might be helpful to point it out anyway.

In the above example, the player who made the team wants to do challenge stage 7 and requires a team containing 3 Hunters and 1 Force. Based on this, the following rules apply:

1. If you are a Ranger - DO NOT JOIN!
2. If you are a Force, and a Force has already joined the team - DO NOT JOIN!
3. If you are a Hunter, and there are already 3 Hunters in the team - DO NOT JOIN!

Pretty simple huh? Ok, you might be asking at this point "What about the TA bit - what does that mean?" - Good question!

If you see "TA" in a team name, this means the game is a "TIME ATTACK" game. The player who made the team wants to get the best time possible, and will usually be an expert player. If you are not an expert player yourself, do not join this team.

Now, this is important: There seems to be a problem with most people's egos when it comes to admitting inexperience. This does not mean "are you new to PSO?" It means "are you an *EXPERT player* in the Cmode stage you are attempting?" By expert player I mean someone who knows the complete layout of the stage ("the map") and the fastest route through it. I have lost count of the number of people who have entered TA games in the past claiming to be experts who clearly have no idea what they are doing.

If you are at all in doubt, either don't join TA games, or make it clear to the team creator that you might not be sure what to do and let them decide. Don't be offended if they ask you (politely) to leave.

You may also see Team names containing any or all of the following:

"FULL", "Reserved" - This means that the person creating the team has already found 3 other players - DO NOT JOIN!

"Under nn", "< nn", where 'nn' is a number - This will often appear in conjunction with "TA" and means you should not join the game if you haven't achieved a time for that stage that is below a certain number of minutes (indicated by nn). For example "C1 Under10" means that if you have not done Challenge Stage 1 in under 10 minutes, DO NOT JOIN!

"JPOK" - This tells Japanese players that it is ok for them to join an English game. A few people put this, but *personally I don't like it* - This is because I believe Japanese players should be free to join any game without having to be 'invited'. However, if you really don't want JP players, put "ENGLISH" or something similarly explicit in the team name. There are occasions when you want to practice a level and you want to be able to speak a lot of English, in which case it's better to make this clear in the team name, rather than trying to explain it to a JP player who has joined without knowing.

Note: Please try and avoid phrases like "No JP" as it isn't terribly polite to bar people based on their national identity.

A lot of Japanese players will use terms like "TA" in their team names, along with a few of their own characters. If you are unsure about what they are asking for in the team name, proceed with caution.

Word Select and Politeness

You will probably notice that there is a lot of "Word select" used on Cmode blocks. Most experienced players will have a range of word selects already shortcutted as this saves a lot of time wasting if you have to type common phrases during gameplay.

You may notice if you play a lot of games, that the same phrases seem to crop up again and again. Indeed, there is almost an expected level of politeness which goes along with playing Cmode. This is partly because of the international nature of Cmode (a lot more teams contain people from multiple countries) and partly just something that has grown up through convenience.

The following is by no means a definitive list of things you should do - it's just what I do and nearly every experienced Cmode player does. Most of this will be plainly obvious to decent people, but its amazing how rude some individuals can be.

1. When entering a team, greet your new teammates. Most commonly this consists of 2 word selects "Hello> Everybody" and "Good to see you> Everybody".

2. If you made the team, greet players individually as they join with "Hello> Playername". It is particularly polite to use "word select" on this occasion as you do not immediately know the nationality of the person who has just joined, so it is nice to greet them in their native language.

3. A lot of people, myself included repeat the "Good to see you> Everybody" after the stage loading sequence. I don't know why - it just happens that way. I like to think we're willing the game to make our characters appear quickly, but that's just my own dumb fantasy.

4. When you complete the challenge, a simple "Congratulations> Everybody" or "Good playing with you>Everybody" is a nice gesture. Also don't forget to say "Goodbye" before you leave the team.

5. If one of your team dies during Cmode, causing you to fail the stage, NEVER EVER critisise them unless there is an overwhelming reason to do so. A simple "np np" will do. Most non-English speakers understand "np" and will be grateful. Believe me, you *will* die many times, and you *will* cause your team to fail. Often it's no-ones fault (maybe too many monsters or a bit of bad luck). This applies even if you've gone all the way through C9 and someone has died at Falz. However frustrated you might be that someone else has caused you to fail, NEVER express the frustration openly. It is one of the worst breaches of Cmode etiquette.

As I said, how you behave is up to you, and it's a bit sad that I've felt it necessary to write about common manners, but they work; and it makes the game a much nicer place. I'm sure that most of you who come to PSO World don't need to worry as you're all nice people !

Finally, and this really p*sses me off, ***NEVER NEVER EVER*** make comments like "Oh God a JP Player" or "JP F**k Off" when a Japanese player joins your team (for JP, insert any non-English speaking player). I realise its a bit pointless saying this, because if you're that sort of childish, ignorant tosser then you're not going to listen to me anyway. Quite honestly the Japanese players on average, are by far the best Cmode players, so you should welcome them with open arms - they'll get you a faster stage time.

Cheating and Other tips

Like the rest of PSO, some sad, lonely individual seemed to think it was necessary to make codes for cheating on challenge mode. (What part of the word "Challenge" don't you understand???) Cheating is probably frowned upon in Cmode more than any other area of PSO. Please if you have to do it, take your silly little codes somewhere other than Miranda.

If you don't want to play Cmode, and you want to make a regular game (e.g. Ult mode), try not to make it on one of the Miranda challenge blocks. The blocks get very busy and the server can become laggy. The last thing that is needed is non-Cmode games clogging up the system even more.

Well thats about it. If I think of anything else, or any other players have anything to add (or if you fundamentally disagree with me), please feel free to comment.

Peace & Love,

Chi.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LollipopLolita on 2002-08-23 15:43 ]</font>

[Gradius]

If it says 3Hu1Fo and your a ranger and they have 1 or 2 Hu's and a FO, Join anyway...
~50% of the time they will let you just to get going.
If it says JP only join anyway.. If you are carefull and know your way around the maps it shouldn't be a problem.

If someone asks you to leave, do so. But It doesn't hurt to try and join, they might let you.

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Team names:
Kanji numbers (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=23365&forum=1&13)
Hiragana numbers (http://sp.cis.iwate-u.ac.jp/sp/lesson/j/doc/numbers.html)

Japanese players can choose 3 different types of numbers, so it's good to sneak into their teams using these charts.

Use the X button to see what type of players are in each team. Teams normally don't have more than one force or ranger.
If you join a team and don't know if it's reserved, do "[Fixed: Recommend]/[Fixed: In the Lobby] > [Shall I join you?]"

Word Select:
"[Fixed: Greetings] > [Nice to meet you]"
I use this if I meet a really hot babe... err, when I meet new people.

"[Fixed: Greetings] > [Good to see you]"
I've had Japanese players use this when I take on special roles, such as getting secret items or hitting switches.
It's also used after everyone has made it past the 2 minute download.

"[Fixed: Greetings] > [Take it easy]"
I've heard this when someone dies. It's just the same as "np".

It's nice to say "thank you" when you get healed, but it's also bad to fill up the screen with chat bubbles.

"[Create a conversation] > [Topic: Item]/[Topic: Arms] >"
[Other subjects] [X] ; [Other Subjects] [X] [is enough]; (I) [need] [X].

#1 Tip: How to get into miranda11-15:
Use the [i]Choice Search option when you're in any Miranda block and then use Meet the User on someone who is in the desired block. This has to be done for any block with 100 or more people inside.

Cheating:
I've seen god/equip, level 200, and unlimited item usage codes. Just drop your scape dolls and go get killed if you see someone cheating :P.


...Photon blasts and invicibility MAGs in challenge mode are possible without cheating, by the way :x.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BaruBanana on 2002-03-17 08:34 ]</font>

[Chiana]

Gradius - This is exactly the kind of attitude that doesn't help. I'm really disappointed that this is the first response that my posting has got. Why do you think I wrote such a long message if it just doesn't matter?

In a nutshell, your comment smacks of "I'm so self-important, that I can just ignore other peoples wishes and blunder my way into other peoples games regardless".

What you singularly fail to understand is people "let you stay" because on the whole, challenge players are too polite to ask you to leave. Or in the case of JP players, they may not understand how to. It doesn't mean they like it. Rangers/Forces in particular mess up TA games if there is already a Force or Ranger in the team.

It's an absolute last resort to ask someone to leave a Cmode game. No-one likes doing it. I've spent hours in TA games where I know we're not going to get a good time, because I asked for 3Hu's and 2 Rangers joined, but I didn't want to offend so I let them stay.

Why on earth do you think everyone makes specific team names if it doesn't matter who joins? It's not for you to just ignore them.

Chi.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chiana on 2002-03-17 08:26 ]</font>

[Gradius]

I'd rather get a crappy time or two and get on with the other challenges than sit and waste a whole day in a lobby trying to find a game that will let my l33t RAmar in. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Chiana]

So... just thinking about yourself then, instead of the other 3 people in the team?

How admirable...

Look I don't want to get drawn into an argument here. Challenge mode on Miranda is as much about waiting for the right team as it is about playing. Everyone else on the Miranda blocks understands this and abides by it. Unfortunately there are always one or two people who think it doesn't apply to them. If you learn patience, you'll very quickly find games for your Ranger. Ever thought about starting a game yourself?

Chi.

[Gradius]

Yes, I value my time more than three strangers on the internet.

[Drayma]

Thanks for the information and good grammer. Force's are supposed to do only support or can they use a weapon? Also what do they want, zalure, jellen, resta, shifta and deband? Or rabarta?

[Riel]

Good advice Chiana,good post.I'm up to c4 now and i must say that it's hard finding a team sometimes,especially if it's 3 japanese players waiting.A lot of times i dont go in because some put japanese numbers as the name of the game,so your not sure what challenge modes they are doing.This might make it easier to find a team. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Riel on 2002-03-17 12:34 ]</font>

[IceBlink]

Great, a equiette guide. ^_^ I already know most of them, but it never hurts to post them again. Hehehe. ^_^


On 2002-03-17 07:22, Chiana wrote:
3. A lot of people, myself included repeat the "Good to see you> Everybody" after the stage loading sequence. I don't know why - it just happens that way. I like to think we're willing the game to make our characters appear quickly, but that's just my own dumb fantasy.

Using a symbol chat for the 'hello' message works just as well. Often, they will do the same thing. In my opinion, it means, "Great, none of us timed out!" ^_^;;

Another tip to remember is to play your role... if you're a hunter, try to fight more up close, perhaps with another hunter or ranger backing you up. If you're a ranger, do the shooting. Maybe shoot boxes open if you have time for the force to run over and pick up perhaps. ^_^; The ranger should usually not require most of his/her mates, if they play correctly. ^_^

If you're a force... I dunno, because I'm not that good a force player yet. XD I've had to fight in C1 and C2 with the FOmarl due to my team mates... ^_^;;

[Love_Beam]

That's very helpful, Chiana. Thank you!

And, generally, Forces are expected to assist with techniques, and are only really supposed to attack if they have access to a Handgun. Unless they have a Cane or whatever with an element that works well, or nice percentages, the 5 damage they do per thwack really doesn't help. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

People really appreciate it if use Resta, Shifta (especially when you encounter a Nano Dragon, Sinow Beat or Chaos Bringer), and Zalure. Also, it's the Forces responsibility to pick up all items, whether they be in an item-specific room or enemy drops, and drop them in a place where you know all your teammates will walk by.

[Drayma]

Thanks for answering my questions, Love_beam. I was worried this forum was hostile.

[FFR]

If you're new or not sure about a certain stage and there's a TA team available please do not join...TA = Time attack peaople usually expect more advance player in those teams...

[Chiana]

On 2002-03-17 12:32, Drayma wrote:
Thanks for the information and good grammer. Force's are supposed to do only support or can they use a weapon? Also what do they want, zalure, jellen, resta, shifta and deband? Or rabarta?


Further to the useful comment from Love_Beam, my own take on Forces is as follows:

General

A Force's usefulness varies depending on the stage being tackled, however the Force will often take on a number of roles. In reality, a Force is not required in the early challenge stages at all, as healing is done entirely by 'mates' and the offensive and defensive strengths of Hu classes are more desirable.

However, many players will be happy to help get Forces through the early stages because a Force is an essential member of any team tackling challenge 7,8,9 (the last 3 challenges) and a good supply of competent Force players is always welcome.

The Item Broker

One of the key roles of the Force in any challenge stage is that of the item gatherer and distributor. The Force needs to remain alert to all items that are dropped during combat and will often scuttle around collecting useful items and depositing them at the door to the next room in the stage. This allows the fighting members of the team to collect them as the run through the doorway without needing to stop for long periods of time swapping items with each other.

For this reason, combat oriented players (i.e. Hu,Ra classes) should avoid picking up too many items when a Force is around as this will just slow the process down.

The 'leaving items in the exit doorway' approach is standard practice in all well drilled teams and requires the Force in particular to be aware of the correct route through a map so that they don't choose the wrong exit from a room to leave items at!

Additionally, a Force will break open boxes where possible and gather the necessary items which he/she will also distribute to the other players. Often item rooms containing boxes can take the player away from the fastest route through the level and judgement should be used by the Force as to whether the long trek to find items is worth the extra delay (especially true during TA games). The mamak-int.com challenge maps provide good guidance on what to collect.

Fighting players should respond in kind by dropping any items that they end up with, that are useful to the Force. (e.g. mind mats, force weapons, tech disks).

Because of their 'baggage carrying' nature, forces should also considering carrying even 'useless' weapons and armour on stages that have item drop buttons (large buttons which require specific items such as shields to be dropped on them in order to open a door).

Techs

On later challenge stages, the Force comes into their own when Resta and Shifta come into play and can be cast on other players. Most teams will find it extremely difficult to complete challenges 7-9 without the added healing abilities of the Force player. Forces should monitor the HP levels of all players and heal where necessary. However, care should be taken not to heal too often, wasting TP. There is little point in casting a high TP cost Resta tech just to restore 20 HP to player in combat.

One of the skills of a good Force is making economical use of their available fluids. Try to find occasions where players are closely grouped when casting Shifta so that you can 'hit' at least 2 (and preferably all) of your colleagues rather than having to run around and Shifta everyone individually. Areas such as corridors, switches/puzzles and warps often provide these opportunities.

Combat

Personally I believe that the Force should avoid weapon based combat wherever possible and just use techs. I'm not about to compile an exhaustive guide of which techs work best on which monsters, but you will work this one out with time (or other people on your team will tell you). There are one or two places however where you are particularly required. A good example is in the mines where a team without a Ranger will need the Force to zonde Canadines in order to bring them to ground so that they can be attacked with swords.

However, where there is a choice of two routes, always take the one involving the least combat. A good example is in C1 where the door in the 3rd room needs to be opened. I always recommend leaving the Force at the door as this leaves Hu players free to warp to room 4, kill everything get the door switch and get into Forest 2 first to start killing again; meanwhile the Force can wait patiently to open the door between rooms 3 and 4 and then open the barriers to the F2 warp. (Don't worry if this makes no sense to you or you haven't done C1 - just take it from me, that one route requires fighting whereas the other doesn't -unless you want to- and just involves running around getting switches or collecting items).

Other Players (Helping your Force)

In later levels, a good Force will generally keep their team healthy, so scape dolls become less of an issue. For this reason on later levels many players drop at least 1 scape doll each for the Force to use. This provides them with extra security (Forces are the most vulnerable character) and also provides an emergency TP supply when a scape doll can be 'burned' (deliberately used up through dying) in order to replenish the Forces TP.

Note: Burning scape dolls should be done with extreme caution in C9 as the Force will usually die several times during the attack on Falz. Make sure you save some!

If a Force ever runs out of dolls, another stronger player should sacrifice theirs in order to protect the Force at all times (but since this is a Force tactics piece, I'll refrain from making further suggestions about what other classes should do).

Types of Force

If you want to create a Force specifically for Challenge Mode, the best type to consider is Fonewm (strongest), followed by Fomarl, then Fonewearl (weakest). However in reality, the differences are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things and your playing ability and Cmode experience is far more important than the type you choose.

Again, I would point out that the above opinions are purely my own and might not be right for you. If you prefer doing things a different way, feel free to suggest them

Tata!

Chi.

[Gradius]

1 hit kill type weapons work great. Use them on nano dragons/pan arms (maybe others too). Even if you're a force, if you are careful these enemies wont hit you and you can save alot of time.

[Malkavian]

I think FOmarl is the worst fo in c-mode, a lot less mst and tp.Be fo is real funny, and more in TA games, it sounds crazy but in true Ta games fo never uses resta, he keep doing attack techniques and burning dolls all the way, is cool to find rafoie and grants, it shows how powerful a fo can be =)

[Shotie]

On 2002-03-18 10:30, Malkavian wrote:
I think FOmarl is the worst fo in c-mode, a lot less mst and tp.Be fo is real funny, and more in TA games, it sounds crazy but in true Ta games fo never uses resta, he keep doing attack techniques and burning dolls all the way, is cool to find rafoie and grants, it shows how powerful a fo can be =)


Okay, as a prefered force player in Challenge, let me debunk some of this for you.

FOmarls are the BEST cmode force. TP means dick in challenge mode. Yes, it's nice to have that extra 30TP, but the extra HP a fomarl gets keeps her ass from dying a LOT when the newman forces would otherwise be dead. FOmarls can also EASILY get the 141 HP to survive Falz in C9. The other two forces typically cannot, their HP is way too low. Unless they get lucky and find several HP mats and a Digger/HP, then you're going to have to hope and pray you have an excellent team who can fork over their dolls for you. A minimum of 4 is required. This is assumed that the weaker newman forces didn't get taken out by a Belra claw or a Chaos Bringers' gunfire along the way.

FOmarls are the best cmode force. TP don't matter in challenge as much as HP do.

About techniques: Do not waste time with higher level techs. They'll waste your magic in a blink. My prefered method is to get a rod or a gun and shoot at every enemy I can, saving my TP for resta. Don't waste magic on Deband. Only use Shifta in "big rooms" with lots of enemies. Its still a tossup which is better: Zalure or Jellen. I think it depends on your team, personally. If you have a team full of people who keep taking hits, then cast Jellen. If you've got a good team that knows how to press the attack (Usually 1 normal hit, one hard hit, repeat over and over will keep enemies totally at bay) then cast Zalure to make it go faster.

Please do not order your force to cast s/d on you. He/She probably knows what they're doing. Do NOT follow the force when s/he runs off. Follow whoever has been leading, which will rarely be the force.

For more info, go here:
http://www.geocities.com/cmode_addicts

Chiana, that was a very well written post. I admit, in all my efforts to help people learn challenge, I never gave much attention to the do's and don'ts of being polite in cmode.

And the "Good to see you. >Everybody" is a greeting that conveys the message, "Thank god, we're all still here." ^_^

[squeak]

excellent post i wish i had seen one like this when i started c-mode.
i used to think that TA meant "to anyone" and i would join =(
also when i have a team of 4 that i know will join i try to take it to a different block to ease the lag on miranda =)

[Malkavian]

well maybe fomarl is the best force for noobs. When i play as my fonewearl i pass hp mats to Hunters i dont like haveing more hp cause i need to die fast when my tp finishes and need to die for tp.
This trick works too bad in fomarls they need more time to die and get less tp.

[Shotie]

On 2002-03-18 11:03, Malkavian wrote:
well maybe fomarl is the best force for noobs.
Ooo, burned me! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif I'm hardly a n00b though. I don't believe in cmode torture. I've done all the forces. FOmarls are the best, you're much more likely to not get killed and get your team pissed off at you. A rogue belra claw will take you out if you're a newman force, no matter how good you are. I've got caught by the stupid things just walking into the damned room before.

When i play as my fonewearl i pass hp mats to Hunters i dont like haveing more hp cause i need to die fast when my tp finishes and need to die for tp.
This trick works too bad in fomarls they need more time to die and get less tp.


Okay, no offense, but this is really stupid. I've NEVER had to use the "Scape Death TP restore" trick ever, even with a FOmarl. If you have to do it with a fonewearl, then something isn't right. And no, I'm not a TP hog either.

You shouldn't pass HP mats to stronger players, when you'll need them in c9. In other challenges its not as important as the final one.

Gah, you must be fun to play with. Teammates must piss themselves when you kill yourself to restore your TP...

[IceBlink]

Heh, this thread is useful. In fact, now that I have the option...

*sticky* ^_^ This should solve the problems of challenge mode for a while...

[FFR]

Shotie..perhaps you don't use enough attack spells...What malk means is TA FO not just a normal game play. And as for FO...u're rite tp don't mean dick but choosing FOnewearl is for the higher mst. hp don't really mean dick when u have skill. The more mst there is the more dmg ur spells do. And as for dying for tp....u'll need it if you use attack spell ALL THE WAY. not just a spell
or 2 on 1 monster. Thatz how TA FO plays. As for the doll giving part...like i said thatz how it plays...ina TA game HU shouldn't die at all. they should give all the dolls to the FO so s/he can keep attacking with spells

or or 2

[Shotie]

No, I use attack spells, although admittedly on c9, I tend to save as much TP as I can for s/d and Resta, so I'm a bit more cautious about offensive spells.

In the end, what class you play is a personal choice, these are just reccommendations. I do agree that FOmarls are the best force for people trying to learn the Force role, though.

However I think most people can agree RAmars are the worst overall cmode character. *dodges fruit thrown at her* No? ACK!

[FFR]

lol...yea...RAmar does like 0 dmg in Vol opt >_<!! w/o s/d or nice gun anwyays...but i think RAmar can't really use lockgun in c6...correct me if i'm rite cause i never use a RAmar b4 ^_^; btw shotie..maybe we can play Cmode some time? ^_^;

[Chiana]

It's fantastic that this is developing into a decent debate. Thank you for making it sticky! As I said in my original posts, everything expressed within is purely my own opinion - it's not necessarily what will work best for you.

However, I see that the 'burning dolls' issue has caused a bit of disagreement. My reasons for considering it a valid tactic are as follows:

1. Constraints of Time Attack

TA games can often mean sacrificing item collection for time. Put simply, you break less boxes (or none at all). This obviously means fewer fluids for the Force. Fewer fluids means TP runs out faster and burning dolls can help to make up for this. When I say TA, I'm talking challenge fanaticism. The kind of person who has a total C1-9 time of under 4 hours and celebrates wildly when they manage to shave 3 seconds off a stage - I'm not talking general Cmode play. This is extreme play.

2. Maximising Force Potential

All Forces conserve TP to an extent during Cmode. If you continually cast techs without pausing, you would probably run out of fluids before you've even left the first area of the stage. Thus, due to issues of conservation, Forces cast slightly less techs than they would like to if they had unlimited TP.

Less tech casting equals less support & attack from the Force player. Logic therefore dictates that less support & attack means a slightly slower stage time.

(To put it simply, if I cast two less attack techs during the entire stage, one enemy takes slightly longer to die, we exit the room more slowly and we lose three seconds of precious time - it's that straightforward!)

Now, if you're a Force and you finish a stage with 2 scape dolls remaining, that's potentially several hundred TP points that you could have used for support & attack which would have shaved those few extra seconds off your teams stage time. Again, put simply, you've cast less techs than you could have.

This is not a tactic that I would recommend to the novice Force (who will probably need all his/her dolls plus a couple of extras), but I stand by my inclusion of it as a valid method of play.

It's all about squeezing the last possible drop of life out of what the stage has to offer.

Comments welcome.

Chi.

ps. Congratulations to Shotie on your new FAQ.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chiana on 2002-03-19 08:54 ]</font>

[Shotie]

First off, Chiana, thanks for noticing the FAQ. lol

Next off, burning dolls is certainly a valid method of challenge play. However, I reccommend the novice not learn this method right off the bat. This method is also not a good idea on c9, where dolls are vital to completing the challenge.

In other stages, if the force is a damned good one, she can do this. I myself have never HAD to do this, I found what I think is a good balance between splurging and spending my TP. However, I do not typically play TA games. I have done them, they're alright, but time isn't a huge deal to me, collecting the srank is, and I can always do that comfortably.

To some challenge players, TA is extremely important, to others, it's not. This will depend on your method of play. Beginners, please do not learn TA methods to start. You simply won't be able to do it successfully.

Also, TA or not, don't be surprised if you get stuck with someone who's new who doesn't know what you're doing and be prepared for an argument. I've had n00bs yell at me over the stupidist stuff before.

^_^

[Greg]

I've had n00bs yell at me over the
stupidist stuff before.

^_^



I love when they bitch about being 1 min over a mamak time... or better yet ask if we are on track for srank time every 5 min... grrrr....

[Shotie]

Yeah Gally, I hear that. People that constantly ask, "Is this Srank?" "Omg, are we over?" "QUIT HOGGING THE ITEMS!"

Yet I still love my cmode so....sigh....

[Wewt]

lol I use to only help 1 noob at a time....and I would always have a friend who also knew c mode like I did to make it much easier

[Curiosity]

Heh, first off, just wanna say nice idea on topic. ^ ^ ppl that know me know i'm somewhat of a 'cmode addict' of sorts, have been for a while. hehe. ^ ^;; but due to my darn dial-up provider i keep getting stuck back on v1... >_<!!! (anyone remember my first trip back to v1? hehe) for those that don't know me, first day back on v1 i kept trying to check cmode ranks... -_-;;;; needless to say i was heavy into cmode at the time, and it sucked BAD... anywho...

i had to learn 'cmode etiquette' the hard way... but i learned, altho, i did make some teams named w/TA before i knew EXACTLY what it was, that was rather short-lived tho because nobody joined anyway. lol. personally i think it was because of that little 'E' by my lvl http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif still tho, i managed to get my S Ranks. and have yet to NOT get S Rank upon first completion of C9. ^ ^ note however, this isn't because of my personal skills, but because of the team and runs/maps i had. anyway, despite my isp, i'm still into cmode, when i'm online w/v2 that is... -_-

one thing tho, that wasn't touched on yet that i know of (granted, most should be common sense anyway) is the matter of Mats. RA's get the short end of the stick in mats, basically not getting any unless some Hits are needed for a specific gun. generally (imo) mats get handed out as such:
-hp = FO
-tp = FO
-pow = HUs (obviously)
-def = HU [except in c9 when they go to FO]
-mind = FO
-hit = HU [generally HUc for various guns] (RA gets some if needed for gun)
-evade = HU
-luck = whomever, generally HU

-tech disks = FO of course gets first pick, then HUn -> HUm -> RAm
(if no FO present, FO related stuff follows tech disk chain)

just something that erks me, if u don't know what Challenge Stage the team is doing, DO NOT JOIN. i mean really... i've learned what a lot of the jp characters are for the numbers, so i freely join them, unless they're reserved or i'm not what is being asked for.

which brings me to another thing which Chiana brought up in the starting post. (which some ppl seem to not care about...) that being, Pay attention to the team name. actually look at the ENTIRE thing, if yer not what's wanted, don't join... (only exception being if the team's been there a LONG time, and is NOT a TA game, then MAYBE try joining) few things are more annoying than asking for specific team make up, and having other ppl join that aren't what's being asked for...

as has been kind of touched on, TA is very different from 'standard' cmode play. and in TA the FO's role changes from 'support staff' to 'weapon'.. TA is definitely NOT for novices. altho some TA games tend to turn into 'standard' games for various reasons. only w/out the normal item gathering, (sometimes) hehe. main reason for this is because there's too many monsters.. >_<

I do both TA and regular cmode play, TA mainly w/what started out as 'just a cmode char' whom some ppl may have seen and know, ImAFOnewearl (HUcast ;P) who seems to be going for a record of "Longest Standing Gi-EI" ^ ^;; even tho he's finished c9 several times, i've just never saved any of them yet... (most recent c9 completed w/a time of 35"40, yes a nice fast time ^ ^;;) i actually wanna learn TA FO, or i should say "correct" TA FO. and work on Xing's times...

commonly used Class abbreviations (and some not so common):
HU/H = any HUnter
HUc = HUcast
HUn = HUnewearl
HUm = HUmar
FO/F = any FOrce
FOnm = FOnewm
FOm/FOml = FOmarl
FOnl = FOnewearl
RA/R = any RAnger
RAc/RAct = RAcast
RAcl = RAcaseal
RAm = RAmar

ack! forgot what else i was gonna say >_<!!! o well...

heh, heya shotie, long time, and malk, wwwww, rest, hehe =)

hehe, needa do some cmode w/ya'll sometime ^ ^ [ya won't needa worry about my RAmar, he's done now http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif ] it'd be fun n' always lookin' for ppl to do cmode with ^ ^ erm, ok, i'm done for now, hehe =)

[Alisha]

good points but theres some things i disagree with main what yuo said about TA i dont think its nessesary for everyone to know the map i consider myself a good c-mode player but i dont know any of the maps however i feel my combat abilty makes up for that.

but now i have a question for you. when playing c-mode you should feed there mag should it be a hunter or force?



note:plz excuse my my horrendous grammar there its 10 am and i havent been to sleep yet

[FFR]

it depends but usually HUc feed mags. the only time FO should feed mag is in c9 u only need 8 antis to gain 1 lv then hope mag kick in in df to get invi. As for TA part... the rzn why u need to know maps is cause u need to know what to do inorder to do the TA right. like the switch maze in c6. it can waste alota of time if you don't know which switch to press.

[Curiosity]

heh, i'm actually kinda ashamed to say i don't know all the maps 100% >_< i know general routes, and most of the switches, learning the c6 ones.. and in the process of learning some "alternate TA routes" and some tactics, hehe. i figure tho, as long as u know who to follow and when is fine, as long as u at least know the general route.

and ya, as far as mag feeding goes, generally HUc feeds, FO in c9 for invinc at DF and generally elect 1 HUc to feed mag in hopes of an assault.

hehe, i din't know to feed my mag the first time i completed c9 w/xing. learned about that from a friend after, and someone told/asked me to in the c9 i did after for the first ring. lol (yeah, i redid c9 for BOTH rings w/xing O_o;;) hafta say tho, it was cool when i had a fonewearl get enough HP to live thru DF. lol. ^ ^

[Wewt]

Learning the maps isn't the hard part, nor is it that important. As long as you know how to be a good team player and follow the the ones that know the stage, you won't be hated. Nothing I hate more than the ignorant noobs that hog all the items then run astray. Like the first time I completed C9 as my FOnewearl with a lowly time of 1'26...I didn't touch any of the items and just followed the team. As I did more c mode I basically learned it all 100%, switches and stuff.

[IceBlink]

One useful thing to do in C2 is for a Hunter to swap his/her mag with a ranger... the ranger's ATA is still high enough to hit often, and he/she benefits from a little more power in the attack, while a hunter's hits will work more often... ^_^ Just something to try out.

I find C2 to be one of the hardest... the leap from C1 to C2 suddenly rises in difficulty, plus, the hunters' ATA is so low, it's hard to attack anything without getting hurt... and you have to do it with a saber too. ^_^;;

[Chiana]

On 2002-03-22 07:06, Alisha wrote:
good points but theres some things i disagree with main what yuo said about TA i dont think its nessesary for everyone to know the map.


If I understand you correctly, you're saying that for TA games, you don't need to know the map. I have to disagree. As I've stated (at some length) previously, TA games are entirely devoted to getting the lowest possible time. If you lag even a few seconds behind, you're slowing the team down. People who claim to know the maps and then start running in the wrong direction, or don't know what to do at switch puzzles are the bane of serious TA players.

If however you are saying you don't need to know the maps for Cmode, then I entirely concur. I got my first 2 or 3 s-ranks without really knowing the maps (although usually someone in your team needs to).

There are people (I've been in their teams) who call their games "TA" but in reality just use this as a moniker to attract reasonably proficient players. There's nothing technically wrong with this, but it's polite to make this clear before starting the stage.

Chi.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chiana on 2002-03-22 16:15 ]</font>

[Shotie]

I'm starting to get into TA games, and I admit, it's a bit annoying when you join a TA game only to discover that the entire team, save you, are newbies. I stay and help, because I enjoy helping people get into cmode, and you'd really be amazed at how many people DO NOT know what to do or where to go.

The biggest thing I want to stress here:
If you are new to challenge mode, for the LOVE OF GOD, listen to the person who knows what they're doing.

Nothing is more frustrating than telling everyone NOT to take the warp, and run past the rock on the left side and wait by the door, only to have 2 people take the warp and go, "What rock?"

Oh, I wanted to brag: Dirty RAmar made srank the other night in 5 hours. It took me about 2 weeks to get srank for him, but not because he was hard-it was because it was hard finding teams that needed or wanted a damn RAmar! >_<

Ah well. I did it, that's all that matters. Now I can say I've done cmode with everyone but a RAcast, and he's the easiest of the RAngers...hehe

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Some things we've all tried to avoid mentioning are the section IDs! Only Crawurm's ha-do-ken could detect such a thing. The section ID of the person creating a team has a large impact on the number of monsters that are spawned in a stage. Also, the IDs of the people joining seem to effect this.
These are the IDs I've been sticking to, since they have resulted in below average times:
C1-C4 ORAN
C7-C9 YELLOWBOZE

People need to post the IDs that have resulted in good times! :x

[IceBlink]

On 2002-03-27 07:55, BaruBanana wrote:
C1-C4 ORAN
C7-C9 YELLOWBOZE

People need to post the IDs that have resulted in good times! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

Whitill works for me in C1 onwards... could try that out...

I think it's also dependant on the other players too... but... can't be sure. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Only one way to find out is to get four players to make specific IDs and test with all IDs... lots of times. o_O

[Shotie]

Oran is good for mines.
Skyly and Purplenium are best for ruins.

Redria and Yellowboze are nice when you don't have a good id for any of the others.

Whithill and Pinkal are typically evil-they spawn a ton of monsters in virtually all challenge stages in my experiences with them.
(Pinkal more so than Whithill.)

Bluefill is best for c4. We did a 35 minute c4 the other day (but got hung up on worm and took an extra 5 minutes for a total of 40 dead even).

[FFR]

35 mins c4? thaat's a slow TA game... for CMode... the enemy is pretty much random. ID affects items and certain enemy type in certain stage. i got a 36 in c6 with pinkal once and 36 in c9 w/ oran. I tends to use these IDs...
c1: oran 8"27
c2: oran 28"24
c3: sky 26"42
c4: oran 31"51
c5: red 25"50
c6: pinkal/purple 35"56
c7: Oran 34"49
c8: red 33"40
c9: oran 37"26

I know...don't tell me my times r sucky...i know they are...haven't been doing much TA
again...these r just my personall fav...not neccesary means they're best
P.S. Same ID in one game ALWAYS attracts tons of enemy

[HC82]

Only one person needs to know the maps so long as everyone else has played the stage enough times that they know what to do when face with puzzles.

Figuring out what switch to press can kill up to 3 minutes.

Ramars are kinda shuned in C mode, so obtaining S rank with a Ramar tends to mean something special. I think some classes should get crutches in C mode, just like how FOs techs were toned down in battle(which I think is stupid in the modes where you retain your real stats, only megid needed to be toned down in those modes)...hopefully GC PSO will be better balanced.

Hmmm...as for a C mode tip(s)

If your using a Force burn that TP as much as you can in C1, don't conserve, trust me.

Also when fighting dark flaz 3 headed form in C mode use zonde. Foie actually registers the damage dealt but zonde does more damage against that form despite it not showing you the damage numbers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HC82 on 2002-03-27 16:05 ]</font>

[Wewt]

I'm so glad I stopped C mode TA...it got kinda stupid after we spent nearly the whole night doing C1 with only cutting a time of 8'44 to 7'32. My friend still does C mode TA like he use to...with a finish time of 3'41, I stopped C mode TA at 4'38. lol in 4 months he could only cut 1 hour off his total...is it really worth it?

[Malkavian]

Is what he likes to play, maybe he thinks get 1000 wins is stupid. And there are many TA players so actually is fun to join them.
The problem of it is that most TA players don't know how to help newbies, they start to play fast getting killed and wasting mates. When i play wiyh noobs I try to evade more and save mates , dolls, for them.

About the ID i don't care anymore i tried zillion times the same 3 first ID of a cool time i got and nothing it can be absolutely different, but is true that if the 4 ID are same there are similarities, also it depends on the zone stage, normally i pack stages like this c2-3-4, c5-6, c7-8-9, so same 4 ID might work similar for each pack, but is true that in c2 arent slimes and a good id for c2 can get many slimes in c3 or pan arms in c4. Same for garanz in c6 and horses in c8 c9.

We should make a monument for the guy that decided don't put gunners in challenge hehe

[Balthor]

dont bash the RAmar to much,heck im on C9 now(finally)and im sure ill do ok at falz(just 2 level ups and 1 or 2 HP mats and ill survive falz http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )but yeah getting my RAmar through cmode was....intersting..http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

you guys and your HUcasts....just want easy sranks |O

[Wewt]

Yes, my main C Mode character was hucast...but I've completed as ramar also...which wasn't so nice lol

[Curiosity]

lol, i did my RAmar.. finished w/a time of just under 6', but i don't care. lol. point is, i did it. and i stand firm in my belief that FOnewearl is hardest Cmode char. ;P not RAmar. heh. but, that is of course just my personal opinion. ^ ^ other ppl hold firm that it's the RAmar, imo, hardest thing about RAmar is just finding games. lol. and as far as knowing the maps, the more that know it the better. but if you don't know the maps completely, knowing WHO to follow can be just as good as actually knowing the map yourself. (the various puzzles on the other hand...) thing to remember is, do NOT follow the FO (or RA). this hinges on the class roles. FO/RA's generally tend to stray from the main path in order to collect items, and if yer a HU, following them will just slow everything down. and PLEASE KNOW the role of your char. i was in a c2 w/a couple ppl yesterday, more or less n00bs, so me an' a friend were gonna help 'em thru it. 2nd area, 'item room' (after the hidden wall 'shortcut') my friend says to the FO to 'get the items' in the barriers... for some reason, the FO didn't.... O_o;;;; or at least, not right away... dunno why... not that it mattered, it was a bad map anyway. lol. but still... -_-;;; we actually decided to end it anyway. hehe

i do a lot of TA, and some genkai once in a great while. and i can, for the time being, still help n00bs. altho i do have some problems... mainly in 2, 5, and 6. but then i always have problems in 2. lol. 5 an' 6 tho.. i seem to have problems "holding back"... malkavian saw this. lol. but yea, a lot of ppl that do a lot of TA have problems helping n00bs. sometimes helping n00bs can actually be fun, as long as they listen...

hehe, i just wish i had some luck so i could get ImA's times faster.. having like 0 luck tho, doesn't help at all... >_< lol, and lately i've been starting to kick myself for not keeping that 35"40 c9. lol. oops, my bad. -_-;;

[Dirge]

lol, i did my RAmar.. finished w/a time of just under 6', but i don't care. lol. point is, i did it. and i stand firm in my belief that FOnewearl is hardest Cmode char. ;P not RAmar. heh. but, that is of course just my personal opinion. ^ ^ other ppl hold firm that it's the RAmar, imo, hardest thing about RAmar is just finding games. lol.

I gotta agree here, I've been stuck at c9 forever with my Ramar. I've completed c mode with a hucast, humar, racaseal and presently running a racast thru, but trying to find a team that needs/wants a ramar is tougher than the actual stages.

hi Xing

(UPDATE)

I achieved S-Rank with Wave Serpent, my Ramar, after an incredibly tough C9 map. Thanks go out to Brynhilde, Zorya, and Shotie.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dirge on 2002-04-10 06:50 ]</font>

[Malkavian]

I think FOnewearl is easy, I did 4 FOnewearls Bu-El, and for me it was a lot easier than RAcast, Rangers do nothing in cmode, they die easily, and do really little damage. Only times i did something was with the special of some guns, even a 45 dark shot and shifta suks http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I prefer to have a fonewearl in team before than a ranger.

[VulpesMundi]

On 2002-04-04 08:59, Malkavian wrote:
I think FOnewearl is easy, I did 4 FOnewearls Bu-El, and for me it was a lot easier than RAcast, Rangers do nothing in cmode, they die easily, and do really little damage. Only times i did something was with the special of some guns, even a 45 dark shot and shifta suks http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I prefer to have a fonewearl in team before than a ranger.


FOs die easier. A RA that has a problem dying doesn't know how to properly play a RA. They're supposed to offer cover fire and circle around the room avoiding direct contact with enemies, not sit in the middle of the fray and get themselves beat up. This is what makes a FO more challenging than a RA. A FO actually has to put themselves in the middle of the fray to cast support and offensive spells. A RA just shoots a gun, shoots a gun, and uh shoots a gun.

Shotguns suck no matter what. They have little ATP and generally cause more harm than good (IMO) by pushing around enemies - usually right into an unsuspecting teammate. However, a RAcast with a good gun like a Lockgun (40%+) can do almost as much damage as a HUc with a default weapon. Just gotta get lucky enough to find such a good weapon. Though I'd agree such a good weapon would be put to much better use if it were a HU weapon instead. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

And the popular consensus would agree that any FO is better than any RA (assuming they know what they're doing). A FO's shifta and zalure can easily make up for the loss of physical attack power, and if the FO knows how to use offensive spells properly then the support factor is not lost and the damage s/he does can far outweigh that of a RA. The only time a RA is really useful is when s/he gets a lucky gun with a special like Dim. But even that has its limits, as it doesn't usually work all that often and tends to not be worth it except against particularly time consuming critters like Pan-Arms. A Dim weapon in a HU's capable hands is often more worthwhile in that case.

[Dirge]

This is another oversight by ST, the RA class is effectively useless in c mode. All you need in cmode is a Fo and 3 Hu's, preferably Hucasts. Only in the first few stages are places that require ranged weapons, and even then the Hucast can use a handgun.

however I've seen good players use Ra's the way they are meant to be, as support to the HU's. If they time their shots correctly, they can give the Hu's enough time to strike that final blow that will finish off the enemy.

[Curiosity]

this actually came up a couple days ago.. i was doing some cmode w/a JP player i'd met earlier that morning. forgot what one we were doing, c7 or 8. i was FO. he asked "C9TA?" i said sure. he made the game. i went to join, and found out he'd actually made it a 'genkai' game and not a normal 'TA' game... (i'd show an example of a genkai game, but can't do the screen shots, so if someone could, it'd be helpful.) anywho, i thought i'd give it a try anyway.. another JP HUc joins, then a FR RAcast, order isn't important. the map turned out to be bad, so as what usually happens in a genkai game, one of the JP HUc's kills himself in order to quit and remake. (the 2 JP players were talking in japanese, so i couldn't understand what was being said, but i got the gyst of it. actually i think it was a combination of a couple things.) needless to say, the FR RAcast was not happy when the JP HUc died and it was over, since the RAc actually needed to finish 9.

my point more or less being, joining a 'genkai' game isn't for vast majority of cmode players. "quick, easy" definition of a genkai game is "an extreme TA game" ('genkai' actually means 'limit' i guess) but, basic rundown of how it works is this: make a game, start the run, judge it a little ways in, if too many enemies, someone dies, quit that game, and remake. repeat until you get a 'good number' of monsters, then judge weps dropped, and die/retry until u get weps w/good %'s. the goal being extremely fast times, which are generally somewhat faster than normal TA times.

ideally, this would've included examples of genkai games, but o well.. mebbe someone else can put a couple up. would also probably be handy to show the japanese for 'reserved', so ppl don't join those either (unless of course you're part of the group http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif )

hehe, hi dirge, btw, if yer on w/Dirge sometime, gimme his card instead of the one i have now. hehe

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Curiosity on 2002-04-10 05:21 ]</font>

[Chiana]

Genkai - a little more info.

You may occasionally hear English speaking players talking about a "Genkai limit". This is generally a target (total) time that they would like to achieve for the challenge stages.

So for example, if your genkai limit is 4 hours, your aim is to keep doing challenges over and over again, gradually reducing the time of each one until the total time for all of them drops under 4 hours.

(In reality this is a bit of a daft phrase when you think about it. As was pointed out, Genkai is Japanese for limit, so when you say "genkai limit" what you're actually saying is "limit limit")

This approach is the primary reason for aborting stages early on. For serious players, there is little point in wasting half an hour or more to complete the stage if it is clear from the map that it's not going to reduce your time.

Be warned though, many people, sometimes myself included, consider the 'TA' moniker to be enough to warrant the aborting of games early on. A lot of people don't use the term "genkai" and consider TA to be the same thing.

One more thing. If you find yourself in a team with Japanese players and you want to abort the stage, you might like to use the following phrases to inform them of your intentions:

"Hazure" - This is a reasonably common phrase in Japanese and is taken as meaning something akin to us saying "we've drawn the short straw" - ie. we've not got a good map.

"Hidoi mappu" - Literally means 'terrible map'

"Teki o~sugi" - Means something like 'too many enemies'

I tried to post some Japanese characters after the romanic text for anyone who understands kana but the forum software didn't seem to like it so I've removed them. Don't quote me on the last one - I'm pretty sure the 'o' is a stretched vowel, but I'm not 100% sure.

Please note these phrases are not standard in cmode and are my own. I only speak a little Japanese and I can't guarantee they are 100% correct; although most JP players I've spoken to seem to have understood.

Chi.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chiana on 2002-04-11 12:29 ]</font>

[TeamPhalanx]

I absolutely hate RAmars in c-mode. At the least the other rangers can see the traps and shoot 'em for you. Please, if you have a RAmar, do us all a favor and don't use him for c-mode.

It all comes down to the player when comparing RAngers and FOrces. I've played with idiotic FOrces who wasted their tp using gi- techs and RAngers who died only 3 or 4 levels into the challenge.

One thing I want to add to the FAQ:

If you're either a RAnger or a FOrce, don't join a team that already has the class that you are.

[segadrm]

can someone help me on C8 i cant find any games. i am a humar and just tell when u want to play. plz reply.

[TeamPhalanx]

Not sure if you know, but the challenge block has been moved to (Japan) Io-11. Look around from time to time and you're bound to find a C8 team.

[TeamPhalanx]

I should elaborate on C8 a bit. Early on in C8, there's a shortcut door that requires four weapons to open. Early on, you may see people saying "0," or "1" or other numbers. This is the number of weapon(s) they've found. Assuming you have a FOrce on the team, generally, if you find 2 or more weapons, you take the shortcut (with two people, including the FOrce, giving up their weapon).

[segadrm]

oh i didnt know it was move thats why nobody was in mirinda/11or what ever the name is.

[_xX_Frosty_Xx_]

Man, so many RAs have been kicked from C-Mode teams........a RAcast is actually pretty good if played right.

[segadrm]

i am a humar and right know theres know one playing c8. can someone play right know plz.

[mikev2]

i found this site very helpful,
http://tkdsouth.tripod.com/index.challfaq1.html

[Neogame2]

Cheers for the info, but can the weapons a t the end of the cmode be pass around or are they locked to each character who complete the cmode?

[yashichi]

That's a good question, Neogame2. Though I have yet to earn any of these Items myself (as I am new to CMode and just getting my feet wet), I saw someone give one of these weaps to someone else last night. It was called S-RANK "RedYoshi Twin"; she had named it herself!

-Y

[VulpesMundi]

Any item can be traded, including S-rank weapons. But nobody really trades S-ranks since they are infinitely and fairly easily acquired. I myself earned forty of them in my time playing ver.2. They're more often trophies than useful weapons. There are only a few useful ones, after all. Mechgun is probably the all around most-used S-rank weapon since every class can use it and it only requires 130 ATA.

[bLoOd_RaYnE]

*bump*

[Ness]

I never did play challenge mode. I hope to check it out in the GC version.