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haterade
Jun 5, 2002, 08:03 AM
Now before I go on, NO I don't mean the anime on most videos and DVDs...

But seriously, to make a 'popular' series nowadays, all you have to do make sure your show heavily involves these two words: summoning animals. That's it. As we all know, Pokemon has it, Digimon has it, CardCaptors has it, some show called Medabots has it, although their not really animals there...and that other one... Yu-Gi-Oh has it as well...I love all the originality *cough*. This is most likely why I can't STAND any of these shows...Guess I'll just stick to Dragonball downloads...

Kupi
Jun 5, 2002, 08:12 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. The monster-collecting thing as a whole (in anime, in games, in toys, in anything) is overdone and, more importantly, annoying.

Of course, they're mostly trying to sell these series(es?) to young kids, who wouldn't understand any manner of plot that would be needed to make a good anime. That, or be "mature" enough to see any kind of "violent" fight scene (gotta love America).

ABDUR101
Jun 5, 2002, 09:49 AM
Since in america these anime such as Card Captor Sakura, Yu-Gi-Oh and so on, are aimed at the children audience, most of any thing remotely..."harmful" such as swearing is taken out. I think these series get pretty damn repetive after 10 episodes each, because its just an on-going drone of "must fight, must train, must catch more". Any interesting punch-lines or whatever that might go against censorship were taken out.

It all boils down to watching the anime that grabs you. I won't be buying any Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh or Card Captor Sakura DVD boxsets, because it's just not interesting or have enough substance to keep me watching.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 5, 2002, 12:01 PM
Simple guys, it's called "Band Wagoning". If a formula comes along and it rakes in the money, then there will be others that will hop onboard to collect from the craze. Because people will associate to something familiar to what they found liking this equation proves very successful. Remember Transformers...Gobots, Thundercats...Silver Hawk, Power Rangers...Beetleborgs. It's been done throughout history in all walks of life, not just Animes. I'm "Glad", pants were one of those results.

FinalMasterM
Jun 5, 2002, 01:30 PM
Old School Anime use to be Hero/Heroines fighting the same battle over and over again, like Sailor Moon (and Power Rangers, which isn't animeted)

I will admit that most of the stuff we are getting, on TV, is about a Boy/Girl with a partner, weither robot, alien, or some creature and their adventure to becoming the best. The next step is toys, ABC Family is about to air Beyblade (sp?) about a young Jr. High School student and his special spin-top and him trying to become the best at it.

Vitamin_D
Jun 5, 2002, 01:49 PM
Actually...let me jump in here and defend Yu-Gi-Oh! and Digimon, scratch that ESPECIALLY Digimon. Although yes, they both have the "summoning monsters" thing going for them they have something that those that only watch a few episodes overlook GREAT story lines. For instance, Yugi's reason for dueling is because his Grandpa's soul is trapped in a card, and to win his soul back he has to enter a tournament and enter the castle to beat Pegasus, the man who captured his grandpa's soul. LAter in the series, formerly evil dude Kaiba is given a similar situation when his little brother's soul is trapped in a card, and to win his brother's soul back he has to duel pegasus, but he can't duel pegasus until he defeats...Yugi. Even more interesting, Yugi loses that duel...It's some mad drama and I LOVE it. Now...Digimon has to be the MOST underated series EVER. No, I'm serious. Digimon has plenty of QUALITY story archs, and has more plot twists than most series out there. Digimon even has character development...GOOD character development. One character in the first season, Izzy, is taken care of by his aunt and uncle, because his parents died in an accident. Also, his cousin,(or his aunt and uncles daughter...Duh.) had died also. Not something you expected from Digimon huh? But he's not the only one with the problems, he just has the most F'ed up situation =/. And Not to mention some awesome fights. really, give this series a try it really is fantastic, but because it's "another Pokemon" it is GROSSLY overlooked. Well that's my $0.02, I'm out.

X-thirteen
Jun 5, 2002, 02:41 PM
all anime looks the same to me.

Balthor
Jun 5, 2002, 03:06 PM
digimon beats pokemon hands down,I know i said i wasnt an anime fan a while ago,but digimon on saturday morning is pretty fun to watch,along with recess on the next channel http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif but all anime CHARACTERS look the same to me.....i mean look at the gigantic heads that overshadow the entire body,look at the eyes that take up about 80% of the face,and the teeny tiny mouth that looks like a dot,but when they laugh its grows huge,oh and dont forget the lump of nasty hair that looks like it was crapped on by some girraffe http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif I just get sick of seeing the same ol crazy hair,big eyed anime characters,thats what drives me away from it :/



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mexican_Tediz_MK2 on 2002-06-05 13:09 ]</font>

X-thirteen
Jun 5, 2002, 04:57 PM
On 2002-06-05 13:06, Mexican_Tediz_MK2 wrote:
digimon beats pokemon hands down,I know i said i wasnt an anime fan a while ago,but digimon on saturday morning is pretty fun to watch,along with recess on the next channel http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif but all anime CHARACTERS look the same to me.....i mean look at the gigantic heads that overshadow the entire body,look at the eyes that take up about 80% of the face,and the teeny tiny mouth that looks like a dot,but when they laugh its grows huge,oh and dont forget the lump of nasty hair that looks like it was crapped on by some girraffe http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif I just get sick of seeing the same ol crazy hair,big eyed anime characters,thats what drives me away from it :/

hey my 8 year old brother also watches that show

Last_Saiyan
Jun 5, 2002, 05:11 PM
Here's a Spoiler for Pokemaniacs: Pikachu's final form is Itchy and Meowth's is Scratchy

Alielle
Jun 5, 2002, 05:40 PM
I'm surprised no one has commented on the inherent suckiness of DBZ yet.

In truth, I would say that about 70% of anime is crap.

http://www.tracy-williams.net/comix/dag3_1.html

Balthor
Jun 5, 2002, 05:42 PM
Alielle....you are my hero XD FINALLY! someone who agrees with me http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Faris
Jun 5, 2002, 05:48 PM
On 2002-06-05 15:40, Alielle wrote:
I'm surprised no one has commented on the inherent suckiness of DBZ yet.

In truth, I would say that about 70% of anime is crap.

http://www.tracy-williams.net/comix/dag3_1.html



Most of the good stuff isn't even on TV because of the kiddies. All they know is DBZ and half an hour of grunting like they haven't gone to the bathroom in a month. X.x

Alielle
Jun 5, 2002, 06:00 PM
If they ever show anything worthwhile, it usually gets cancelled very quickly. They used to show Escaflowne on Fox Kids, which is a bit younger than its target demographic, I would think. It'd be a great anime for Toonami though.

Nothing has really caught my interest lately. They all seem like derivatives of derivatives nowadays. Don't get me wrong; I love anime when it's done well, and I am planning to get Excel Saga when it comes out! A-KU-RO-SU!!!!

KodiaX987
Jun 5, 2002, 06:14 PM
I prefer to just listen to my friends making suggestions. This is how I discovered Ranma and Tenchi Muyo! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

One cool thing I had in Barbados was the Locomotion channel, a teen-to-adults oriented cartoon channel, with a lot of mature stuff, including Evangelion, Those Who Hunt Elves, and Duckman!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Okay, Duckman isn't an Anime but I just love it! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Last_Saiyan
Jun 5, 2002, 06:18 PM
Hey don't be bashing Goku and his friends. There's a reason why the show gets the exposure it does, and 10 million people can't be wrong. Sure it might not be your favorite or it might just straight out reeks in your book but bashing it without any grounds to stand on besides it just sucks only proves how credible your opinions in other things are. As for me, I think the action and fighting scenes are one of the best in Animes.

Guile
Jun 5, 2002, 08:08 PM
You see tons of diffrent anime types, ones with animals, powers, guns, big ass robots, etc...

its all different

X-thirteen
Jun 5, 2002, 08:15 PM
On 2002-06-05 16:18, Last_Saiyan wrote:
and 10 million people can't be wrong.
who says they couldnt be?
its more of a pop thing.

Nerd
Jun 5, 2002, 09:32 PM
I thought Pokemon was very original, funny and refreshing as a cartoon. It reminded me of how i felt as a child, watching cartoons like Voltron or HeMan..

Mazarin
Jun 5, 2002, 10:08 PM
Only crap 'Japanimation' is on TV. OAV Tenchi ruled, but they edited it, wherin making it suck. DBZ is a suck-factory due to forementioned editing. Cardcaptor Sakura also sucks for the same reason. Editing. And all this editing for a target audience the series' was not created for hinders the impact of it's stories. We all have @ least heard of the travisties of re-writes involving Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura, and even(ugh) Samurai X.

If they released anime w/o editing it, I believe these shows would have a MUCH larger draw. Only problem w/ that, is they put them in crap times, like what happened to Cowboy Bebop. Anyone in the target audience who'd watch it either has a life, and is out @ night, or stays home all the time, and has owned the DVDs of it for 3 months.

And yes, there aren't many great animes out there anymore. The only ones that keep my interest @ the moment are Hellsing and Chobits(how's that for different ends of the spectrum?). I try to stay away from the US released stuff, cause business Americans screw it up. Case and point Viz and ADV.(Too bad Excel Saga:() The only things good coming out of US companies are DVDs, and that's only because of the subtitling options(and that even gets screwed up, I try to stay w/Dave Flemming translations *Lain, Eva, Outlaw Star*)

Comming from an "Anime Old Fart" realm, when Fist of the North Star, Bubblegum Crisis, and Project A-ko were new, working 5+ years for one of the US' biggest Anime cons, seeing the past 5 years of anime in the US baloon into what it is has, it's had good points, but for the most part, I for one, believe this genre of entertainment has been hurt by good ol' American bastardization.

Robert_Garcia
Jun 5, 2002, 10:25 PM
On 2002-06-05 11:49, Vitamin_D wrote:
Now...Digimon has to be the MOST underated series EVER. No, I'm serious. Digimon has plenty of QUALITY story archs, and has more plot twists than most series out there. Digimon even has character development...GOOD character development. One character in the first season, Izzy, is taken care of by his aunt and uncle, because his parents died in an accident. Also, his cousin,(or his aunt and uncles daughter...Duh.) had died also. Not something you expected from Digimon huh? But he's not the only one with the problems, he just has the most F'ed up situation =/. And Not to mention some awesome fights. really, give this series a try it really is fantastic, but because it's "another Pokemon" it is GROSSLY overlooked. Well that's my $0.02, I'm out.



Well I kinda agree with you on that one. I used to like Digimon but then the monsters became too much like Transformers in the later episodes by transforming into humanoid Robots, etc... and I just stopped watching.

And Technically, Digimon came first with those lil Tamagochi things. But some people overlook that and say its like Pokemon. Oh well...

Dangerous55
Jun 5, 2002, 11:29 PM
I hate all anime, and you cant say dont bash it until you tried it. Cause I watched at least 1 episode of each of the more popular shows, and even some underrated ones. Its all wierd to me, and just well...wierd. I dont get it.


But, to each his own, to each his own.

Balthor
Jun 6, 2002, 01:23 AM
ok you wanna here WHY I hate dbz more then anything else on this planet?everyone makes such a big deal how its such a good anime...when in terms they fight like every 50th damm episode,and only about 10 mins of real action,then they always yell at each other for the remainder 20 mins saying retarted shit like"ill beat you if it takes all my strentgh!"

"in your dreams pal"

"it is my dream to beat you"

and with all teh characters looking like retarted monkeys with bad perms,is what makes it worse,plus they shoot fireballs at each other that always miss and makes a big explosion.....ooooooooh!.......and story is awful....stilted and full of holes....oh and what better way to add more viewers by clipping old episodes together while stupid gochu or gokee or whatever the fukk they call them talking in the background"how i trained all my life to beat you"

to me dbz is the worst thing since....well it has a ground all its own...it sux

g0th_gUrL
Jun 6, 2002, 01:27 AM
hehe... i never liked dbz either.

has anyone heard of this old school anime that was about some zodiac warriors? I remember watching it in the mexican cartoon channel, and in spanish they were called "Caballeros del Zodiaco" Man they ruled!!

ABDUR101
Jun 6, 2002, 03:18 AM
On 2002-06-05 23:27, g0th_gUrL wrote:
hehe... i never liked dbz either.

has anyone heard of this old school anime that was about some zodiac warriors? I remember watching it in the mexican cartoon channel, and in spanish they were called "Caballeros del Zodiaco" Man they ruled!!


Ronin Warriors is the only thing coming to mind here..sorry :

g0th_gUrL
Jun 6, 2002, 12:53 PM
On 2002-06-06 01:18, ABDUR101 wrote:

Ronin Warriors is the only thing coming to mind here..sorry :



Oh i remember one of the characters was named Saint Seiya.. i tried looking for a webpage of them last night but then i ran into some really sick disturbing hentai. YACK!!!! Japanese people are weird.

I remember once our horror lit. teacher told us that Japanese people have the most disturbing, sick porn. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Vitamin_D
Jun 6, 2002, 01:35 PM
On 2002-06-06 10:53, g0th_gUrL wrote:

Oh i remember one of the characters was named Saint Seiya..


Saint Seiya indeed...

http://anzwers.org/free/animeintro/saintseiya.html

Gryph
Jun 6, 2002, 01:46 PM
How many people think CN should make a separate Toonami channel? They have enough shows to do it with no problem.

g0th_gUrL
Jun 6, 2002, 01:52 PM
On 2002-06-06 11:35, Vitamin_D wrote:
Saint Seiya indeed...

http://anzwers.org/free/animeintro/saintseiya.html



Saint Seiya!!! Awww i haven't seen that anime in ages! <sniffle> I should buy the videos on ebay. Thanks http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Alielle
Jun 6, 2002, 01:56 PM
On 2002-06-05 20:08, Mazarin wrote:

Comming from an "Anime Old Fart" realm, when Fist of the North Star, Bubblegum Crisis, and Project A-ko were new, working 5+ years for one of the US' biggest Anime cons, seeing the past 5 years of anime in the US baloon into what it is has, it's had good points, but for the most part, I for one, believe this genre of entertainment has been hurt by good ol' American bastardization.


You have to admit that it's come a long way since Sailor Moon back in '96. Even editing didn't make that show terrible. Nowadays, most English adaptations are usually faithful to the original without sacrificing comprehensibility. Dubbing is also usually good, and I'd say the acting is on par with the Japanese versions, sometimes exceeding them. Whereas Japanese voice actors tend to sound melodramatic instead of natural, I think American voice actors do a good job without screaming their heads off.

Also, I'd say that Tenchi just plain sucks. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif I hate those anime with one dude living with a whole bunch of crazy chicks that all have the hots for him.

By the way, people in Japan will laugh at you if you're over the age of 12 and still obsess over Dragon Ball Z. Maybe not at your face, but behind your back. ^_^ I do like Dragon Ball, but not DBZ. DBZ is like the animated equivalent of pro wrestling, with just as many greased-up muscular men grabbing at each other, and the same damn plot over and over... but with less action and many, many still scenes.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 6, 2002, 02:09 PM
Hehehe, a long time ago when Michael Jordan was playing in his peak a young kid said he sucks. I feel this is like that time, people hate something that too many people like just because of that. If you want all action, I suggest you try the DBZ movies. The series are made and intend for long running, if you are oblivious to story telling and plot constructions then you won't understand. It would be like soap stars screwing eachother all season long, or a basketball team with all offenses with guys that are 8 ft tall and higher and just have a dunk fest all year long. So far no one has a sufficient reason or one that makes any real sense about why DBZ. So far, all the expressions were vague and opinionated. But I guess that's what it means to rant..and sometimes ranting doesn't have to make any sense.

g0th_gUrL
Jun 6, 2002, 02:16 PM
On 2002-06-06 12:09, Last_Saiyan wrote:
So far no one has a sufficient reason or one that makes any real sense about why DBZ. So far, all the expressions were vague and opinionated. But I guess that's what it means to rant..and sometimes ranting doesn't have to make any sense.



PLain and simple, i think it looks ugly. I don't like the animation, i don't like the way their expressions are drawn. I tend to like animations with long legged tall girls in them http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

DBZ seems to be too male oriented.

Is this good enough? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Alielle
Jun 6, 2002, 02:27 PM
Imagine yourself as a Japanese kid, waiting for the next episode of DBZ. Unlike American kids, you have to wait one whole week before the next episode is aired. Imagine your horror to discover that the episode contains absolutely nothing but taunting. Multiply this by the number of times a new villain is introduced.

Believe me, I tried to get into DBZ. I watched it for two weeks straight, nearly clawing my eyes out in the process. It's ugly and boring, even with the action, and the plot teeters on the edge of being completely ridiculous, not to mention redundant. The pace just crawls - they can do so much more with the time they waste with still pans and "powering up." I just don't like it. It's not my taste. You can't objectively argue this kind of thing, so please refrain from telling me how uncultured I must be.

Greg
Jun 6, 2002, 02:59 PM
General Rule for anime. For every orignal one there are 100 ripoffs. Also there no matter how great the plot starts out it always seems to unravel into a puddle of shit in the end. Not to mention the crap that is supposed to make lonely japaneese teens better about thems selves. I like anime, just a VERY select few pieces.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 6, 2002, 03:02 PM
Goth, Sailor Moon is for you then. Alielle, if what you say is true then you must hate every animes that are episode format...like, Trigun, Gundams, Outlaw Star and on and on.. because your complaints aren't geared towards DBZ itself but rather the formulas that had made animes that span more than 4 series work, prosper, and survive. So instead of coming out to say that you hate DBZ or that it sucks, you should be saying that you don't like animes that are in Episode forms. As much as you might not want to admit it, this is really where it lies. I'm sorry that DBZ is just an example that first come to your mind.

Alielle
Jun 6, 2002, 03:47 PM
Yes, since I dislike DBZ because the art is ugly, the plot is stupid, and the pace is very slow, I must hate all other episodic anime. 9_9 Since you didn't understand me, please re-read my post.

I loved Trigun, and most of the anime I own are TV shows and episodic OAVs. Try not to make assumptions about people just because they don't like the same things you do.

Saladwood
Jun 6, 2002, 03:47 PM
Ok, i didn't really read this thread, BUT!!!! BUUUUT!

all anime isn't the same. What anime [there is] in america is limited in the first place.

Saying all anime is the same is like saying ALL american cartoons are the same.

If you're complaining about all anime being the same, take your complaints to the distributers who choose what anime they want to bring to america.

if you don't believe me, get your ass out of this country and see what i mean.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PSOSaladWood on 2002-06-06 13:50 ]</font>

watashiwa
Jun 6, 2002, 03:49 PM
Go, RO guy, GO!!

http://www.watashiwa.org/tohohuhai.gif

TeamPhalanx
Jun 6, 2002, 03:52 PM
If you had read this thread you'd notice that the people here watched other anime than what's shown on TV. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Most anime are only similar when they have the same director.

The only stateside animation that's great, IMO, is the Batman series that ran during the 90's. The writing for the show was superb.

Saladwood
Jun 6, 2002, 04:00 PM
wait what? was that directed at me?

because, i'm not talking about only TV. i'm talking about ALL the anime readily available in america. Which is probably only about 10% of all anime... IF YOU'RE LUCKY. It's probably more like 4%.

TeamPhalanx
Jun 6, 2002, 04:05 PM
4%, 10%?!? I really don't see where you're coming up with those numbers. At the least I can get 50% of all anime by ordering from online sites.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 6, 2002, 04:05 PM
I agree, Batman was really good and so was the Gargoyles series too. Those two raised the bar as far as overall animation, style, and exceptional story telling.

Balthor
Jun 6, 2002, 04:58 PM
ok saiyen listen up,you said in page 2 that if we didnt have any opinions to stand by about bashing DBZ,then you said something blah blah and so on.THEN on top of this page you say that our epressions to DBZ are to"opinionated".....I REST MY CASE.....what more you want?your trying to hard to defend dbz,from others opinions.
dbz is slow
dbz is crap
dbz has little action
seee?WE HATE DBZ http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

the bottom line(rememebr about 4 more pople posting here hate dbz)

DBZ SUCKS XD



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mexican_Tediz_MK2 on 2002-06-06 15:02 ]</font>

Last_Saiyan
Jun 6, 2002, 05:14 PM
Actually I've decided to be the "bigger" person and step on to better plains. That is why I posted what I did on Batman rather than go on and on because you guy will never understand the concept. I dont' think I need to defend DBZ because it's ratings and it's success does that already. I'm more like defending those who makes statements but can't responsibly back them up on reasonable terms. You see, what kind of a person would I be if I let people in my pso community grow up like idiots. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

watashiwa
Jun 6, 2002, 05:15 PM
I preferred the Rainbow Brite movie.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 6, 2002, 05:21 PM
I was going to say that I like Rainbow brite at first but then someone would come along and say that they hate it because they're color blind. hehehe. Krys is the Man on Rainbow Brite, he's like Mega Man on too many Skittles factory visits.

watashiwa
Jun 6, 2002, 05:32 PM
I just want her horse!

pixelate
Jun 6, 2002, 05:35 PM
Care Bears will always hold a special place in my heart.

Balthor
Jun 6, 2002, 05:45 PM
and princess gwenevere and the jewel riders will for me to http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif ......

Last_Saiyan
Jun 6, 2002, 05:59 PM
Here's a site for every Rainbow Brite character info and pics: http://www.rainbowbrite.net/pics/

watashiwa
Jun 6, 2002, 06:01 PM
On 2002-06-06 15:59, Last_Saiyan wrote:
http://www.rainbowbrite.net/pics/



Word to my new IE homepage!

FinalMasterM
Jun 6, 2002, 06:12 PM
On 2002-06-06 12:59, Greg wrote:
General Rule for anime. For every orignal one there are 100 ripoffs. Also there no matter how great the plot starts out it always seems to unravel into a puddle of shit in the end. Not to mention the crap that is supposed to make lonely japaneese teens better about thems selves. I like anime, just a VERY select few pieces.



OMFG!!

I have to agree with Greg here, each anime has a equal rip-off or copycat with anywhere from 1 to 100 differances that make each different from the original. Yu-Yu Hakuso is just like DragonBall even if its just the fact that they use energy attacks in fights.

As for stuff like Digimon and Pokemon, Digimon was FIRST but wasn't as popular as Pokemon, reason some feel Digimon is a ripoff (those who don't know better) is because Digimon didn't push-off with a anime series and such until Pokemon was going UP here in the states.

Also this same rule applies to american cartoons, some even ripoff stuff from animes. How many dang Scooby-Doo rip-offs did their own creators make!? 2? 3!?

Another thing, for those who whine about Dub/Edits there are fucking import sites and everything you can get sub'd/unedited anime at. http://www.animeart.com/dvd is a great site to start looking. If you can't order anime then stop whinning about it, I'm greatful to have CN even if the anime is edited out the ass (same goes for Fox).

Vitamin_D
Jun 6, 2002, 07:57 PM
On 2002-06-06 11:56, Alielle wrote:


Dubbing is also usually good, and I'd say the acting is on par with the Japanese versions, sometimes exceeding them. Whereas Japanese voice actors tend to sound melodramatic instead of natural, I think American voice actors do a good job without screaming their heads off.



INdeed, the best dub I beleive I've EVER seen was for The Yu Yu Hakusho movie that came out here (Or Poltergeist report...) Another fantastic one was Gundam Wings, where I actually prefer the Dub more than the original voices. Also...I don't know if it's just me...but all (well NEARLY all) japanese girls sound the same to me. Maybe it's because I don't speak the language, but all their voices come off as similar. And ya ever wonder if Japanese peole can hear accents? I mean like..is there a British/Japanese accent? I wonder this because in the Dark Stalkers anime, Lord Raptor has an accent, but when you switch to japanese, he doesn't sound like he'd have one...I've always wondered this.

Saladwood
Jun 6, 2002, 08:03 PM
On 2002-06-06 14:05, TeamPhalanx wrote:
4%, 10%?!? I really don't see where you're coming up with those numbers. At the least I can get 50% of all anime by ordering from online sites.



No you can't. You don't really understand how much anime there is out there. Please, before you say anything about getting 50% of all anime, just think about it for a second. You've never lived in an asian country, watching anime, say, all your life. If you have, you'd know what i'm talking about.

Damn know it all americans thinking you can get 50% of anime off the internet. PLEASE!

Kent
Jun 6, 2002, 08:25 PM
This is new.

Starting a topic with a contradictory post.

TeamPhalanx
Jun 6, 2002, 09:59 PM
Well, gosh... I mean, seeing as how I spent my childhood in Asia, this American is bound to know so little about anime... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

It may take up to a month, but if I wanted to, I can get at least 80% of anime. There are tons of places out there on the net, both legtimate and not, that offer most anime on VHS or VCD.

haterade
Jun 7, 2002, 02:46 AM
On 2002-06-06 15:14, Last_Saiyan wrote:
I dont' think I need to defend DBZ because it's ratings and it's success does that already.



LMAO! This is by FAR the most idiotic thing I've ever heard (today). What the fuck are you smoking!? Children do A LOT for ratings, you know. anything ith a fight scene suits them. Unless you're a child, I take back my words. But if you're not, you're pretty...stupid.

I've watched DBZ on tv and some of the videos, and if you're stupid enough to belive that what most people say about dbz isn't true, you need to stop deluding yourself.

TV series: charging up specific attack for whole episode, weak plots., etc.

Movies: weak plots... the only thing good here are curse words.

Episode 1: "Ka-Me-Ha..."

Stay tuned for the next episode of Dragonball Z!

Episode 2:

"...Me..."

Stay tuned for the next episode of Dragonball Z!


You need to grow out of such BASIC anime. Again, if you're a kid I take back my words. But still, that's one of the most RETARDED responses I've ever heard.

"DBZ ratings speak for itself...lmao"

What an idiot http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Sojo
Jun 7, 2002, 11:07 AM
I thought a few of the DBZ movies were quite good.
And I wouldn't judge an entire anime on artistic style either. How boring would it be if all anime was only done in the long legs/big tits style?
You'd get pretty dam fed up!

Anyway, there are animes out there with much more rediculous plots than DBZ, like all those weird ones that don't tend to get any air-time over here which involve naked witches summoning city-destroying Demons which then fight each other by swinging their giant cocks at each other's heads, all the time having sex with scores of Sailor-suit schoolgirls by way of masses of mini cocks to get more energy shouting, "Ho! You cannot defeat my cock! My cock will destroy you now!" "Ho! Never! My cock is the most powerful in the whole Universe!" etc, etc...

On another note, I recently saw an Anime called Black-Jack. It was quite a pleasent change from all the usual "Tits and Blood" animes and had quite a good plot too.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 12:27 PM
Whooohoooo I got the vague "all anime are the same" Haterade on me now!!! Sweet!! Because you proved 50% intellegence as the previous debaters I'm going to go easy on you. Going through corporate structures, advertisement, and monetary lingos will only explode your limited mind, I'll put it in terms as simple as the day comes. They use worms to fish my boy, if you throw a line without any lures or hook, you won't catch any. That takes care of the "stay tune" part. As for plot, yes it is important but if it's everything then things like...Sports, combat fighting, lady mud wrestling would cease to exist. You want a good story in everything...umm, I don't need to tell you that there is this thing called a book. As for animation style, I agree with Sojo, variety is good. Or else, the Sonic Team would make all Hucasts for us to play with, and with only one proportion option. Now as for you who hates waiting for the next episodes, I'd recommend seeing the DBZ movies like Sojo said. Everything is there and you won't have to cry. It's a toss, but I feel I've answered all of your complaints...at least the ones that are valid. There is no answers for "it just sucks" kind of rants and there won't ever be. I think kids are cool, so don't talk smack about them, some are smarter than you and have better insights and a way to express it intelligibly. I don't know if this means anything but...I have 3 degrees in art/science developement/and the 3rd one..a black belt in Brazilian Jujitsu... with numerous wrestling medals. I think my range of experience proves a little if not alot about my credibility in judging and appreciating things. I hope this suffices you're questions. n_n

ABDUR101
Jun 7, 2002, 12:41 PM
I'd SO flame your ass right now..but..can't..stop...watching...sig..
x_x

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 12:45 PM
Hehehe, yeah, he's a bad a$$. Abdur, I'd spar with you anyday...but by the trails of ladies that lay on your path of destruction, you might have the upper hand

ABDUR101
Jun 7, 2002, 12:50 PM
On 2002-06-07 10:45, Last_Saiyan wrote:
Hehehe, yeah, he's a bad a$$. Abdur, I'd spar with you anyday...

Finally, someone to spar with :



but by the trails of ladies that lay on your path of destruction, you might have the upper hand


..what the hell is THAT supposed to mean?!

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 12:54 PM
As for plot, yes it is important but if it's everything then things like...Sports, combat fighting, lady mud wrestling would cease to exist. You want a good story in everything...umm, I don't need to tell you that there is this thing called a book.
So, 200+ episode long animations don't need a good plot to keep people interested? Impressive defense of the vast deep meaningful storyline of DBZ ^_^!!! there. By the way, Toriyama himself even said that DBZ was way too long.

As for animation style, I agree with Sojo, variety is good. Or else, the Sonic Team would make all Hucasts for us to play with, and with only one proportion option.
Nobody said anything about only liking one animation style, did they? By the way, why is it that Toriyama's only able to draw one style of body and face?

Now as for you who hates waiting for the next episodes, I'd recommend seeing the DBZ movies like Sojo said. Everything is there and you won't have to cry.
This is not a problem when the episode previews give away what's going to happen in the next episode. WILL FREEZA TAKE OVER THE WORLD, OR WILL GOKU TRIUMPH?!?! Duh...


It's a toss, but I feel I've answered all of your complaints...at least the ones that are valid.
You're right, it is a toss.


There is no answers for "it just sucks" kind of rants and there won't ever be.
he says, conveniently ignoring everything else we said.


I don't know if this means anything but...I have 3 degrees in art/science developement/and the 3rd one..a black belt in Brazilian Jujitsu... with numerous wrestling medals. I think my range of experience proves a little if not alot about my credibility in judging and appreciating things. I hope this suffices you're questions. n_n


Blowhard. (http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame43.html)

Actually I've decided to be the "bigger" person and step on to better plains. That is why I posted what I did on Batman rather than go on and on because you guy will never understand the concept.

Ignoring all our valid points makes you a "bigger" person? I have a better word for it.

Yes, we must all be retarded, and you must be the paragon of intelligence, just because you mention the fact that DBZ is successful. You are so much more mature and intelligent because your opinions are more valid than ours, and you are proving so by ineffectively dodging our claims. Good job.

ABDUR101
Jun 7, 2002, 12:58 PM
On 2002-06-07 10:54, Alielle wrote:
Blowhard. (http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame43.html)


Oh god yes! I was hoping someone would use that! XD

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 01:19 PM
Alliele, that was for Haterade, this one's for you. Because every person is different, I have to bring myself to that level in order to explain something. But since you're a little more gifted, here it goes. Toriyama said the series long because, well, he's not lying, it is. The Simpsons is "the" longest airing cartoon series but that doesn't mean that it "sucks". It also has no plot whatsover. The animation is simple and ugly compared to other well drawn cartoons. Matt Groening created the look, but since other artists are drawing the series now, the style hasn't changed much...why? Working formula. Sometimes Change is bad, like Ninja Scroll 2...or Godzilla. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Sometimes, success comes in a weird shape and form. All of your rants proves that you will fail miserably if you ever ran a cartoon project because of your ineffective thinking. I admit I wanted a little to much fun when I mentioned my demography but just as a job interview or review, your opinions are reflected by "What do you do, or have done?" I think on a different Accord, you have been thinking like a fat consience person and wanted to eat a slice of pizza but can't because you feel the need to count calories. If you like inhibiting your life then that's your problem, but don't tell other people that a certain thing is bad just because you don't have the ability to appreciate it. I tried to be the "bigger" person and I did leave it at a "Toss", because that's how the world runs, you like it or you don't. However, you guys coming back with knocking and trying to sell me the same thing, I'll open the door and let you know what I think. I'm not dodging anything according to what I've wrote, you're just pushing with more opinions then facts and I choose to only answer the facts. I'll leave with this: DBZ, The Simpson, and other works swill flourish and find their ways to the appropriate hearts of patrons. And, everything have flaws, heck most of the good movies have 2 or 3 stars out of 4... so don't cheat yourself out of enjoyment just because you count calories. Live a little every now and then

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 01:46 PM
Toriyama said the series long because, well, he's not lying, it is. The Simpsons is "the" longest airing cartoon series but that doesn't mean that it "sucks". It also has no plot whatsover. The animation is simple and ugly compared to other well drawn cartoons. Matt Groening created the look, but since other artists are drawing the series now, the style hasn't changed much...why? Working formula. Sometimes Change is bad, like Ninja Scroll 2...or Godzilla.

You cannot compare "The Simpsons" to "Dragonball Z". "The Simpsons" has worked all this time because it's funny and clever. (Well, maybe not lately, but you know what I mean.) It makes jabs at pop culture and so forth. And of course, since the formula is like a sitcom, it's not going to have a long-running story. Dragonball Z is an action cartoon for kids, and has an episodic formula. It's very hard to keep an episodic series on for as long as DBZ has without getting extremely dull and filler at times. Sailor Moon also suffers from this, but despite this, I actually enjoyed it.


All of your rants proves that you will fail miserably if you ever ran a cartoon project because of your ineffective thinking.

With all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? I couldn't make an interesting cartoon because I don't like frickin' DBZ? From whence do you draw these conclusions?


I admit I wanted a little to much fun when I mentioned my demography but just as a job interview or review, your opinions are reflected by "What do you do, or have done?" I think on a different Accord, you have been thinking like a fat consience person and wanted to eat a slice of pizza but can't because you feel the need to count calories. If you like inhibiting your life then that's your problem, but don't tell other people that a certain thing is bad just because you don't have the ability to appreciate it.

What the hell? Okay, looking past the pretentious analogy (and don't try to use this as proof of your OBVIOUSLY SUPERIErR INTELLECT; the pretention in this entire post is thicker than G. W. Bush's skull), DBZ is the proverbial slice of pizza, but you're completely wrong in my motives not to enjoy it. The toppings on the pizza are completely wretched. Now, you might enjoy it, but I don't. And now you're saying that I'm stupid, among other things, just because I won't eat the vile thing.

If you can say you like DBZ, why can't I say I don't like it? If you can make me stare at your stupid SUPER DUPER SAIYAN ^_^ animated gif, then I'm at least entitled to tell you that I don't like it. Quit trying to make it look like I'm the one with the problem and get over yourself.

Edit: Fethin' typos.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alielle on 2002-06-07 11:50 ]</font>

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 01:58 PM
Good, now that I got you line and sinker. Pick up, I believe the latest issue, of Anime of America magazine. We've been pushing opinions around too long. Read the section about the best Fighting Anime there is. You'll find the official seal there. Do you have a magazine that says DBZ sucks? Hmmm. And with saying all this thing about why you dislike DBZ and then saying that Sailor Moon suffers from the same..but you liking it?!! I think you made my point for me there. Ta Ta

ABDUR101
Jun 7, 2002, 01:59 PM
*downs two kitkats and a reese's peanut butter cup*
HAH! Counting calories my ass!

I'll just..go rake the lawn now. XD

...anyone here like the Tenshi-syndrome?

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 02:18 PM
On 2002-06-07 11:58, Last_Saiyan wrote:
Oh I am just a little stupid fish in your little pond of incomprehensibility. ^_^ How cute.


Pick up, I believe the latest issue, of Anime of America magazine.
Never heard of it. Do you mean Animerica? Surely your incompetant thinking will never allow you to produce a magazine.

We've been pushing opinions around too long. Read the section about the best Fighting Anime there is. You'll find the official seal there.
We all know that having a magazine saying DBZ is the best "Fighting Anime" is objective proof of it being the best show ever -- oh no, Animerica says DBZ rules, now I am not allowed to disagree!

Do you have a magazine that says DBZ sucks? Hmmm.
Magazines. Wow. Truly they are decimating my opinions with their slick graphic design and consumerism. Besides, would you ever expect a magazine which has Funimation as a sponsor (i.e., practically every anime magazine that exists today) to say that DBZ sucks?



And with saying all this thing about why you dislike DBZ and then saying that Sailor Moon suffers from the same..but you liking it?!! I think you made my point for me there. Ta Ta


I GOT U HOOK LINE AND SINKER LOL

The point is that Sailor Moon is actually a good show.

By the way, you need to work on your dodging skills. I have shot gaping holes through your post and you have not bothered to even realize it. BYE DA NE ^_^ DESU

ABDUR101
Jun 7, 2002, 02:26 PM
My god...I love this place. It's almost as fun watching a debate as it is taking part in one http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks you two, for once it wasn't me XD

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 02:29 PM
OMG this is funny!! Sure you have the right to disagree, but you're opinion vs. one of an establishment that is dedicated to give you insights and info on the subject..I'd go with the reliable source of the magazine. You're not a fish, a gold fish has 3.2 seconds of memory...you have 1.1 if less because you forgot that you liking something so similiar with what you had just fought makes you a complete hypocrit and so what does that say about your whole effort? Well, to start it off...that you say all these things and make your points but you like the same thing in something else and saying that it is "enjoyable" doesn't make it true...if so then I wouldn't have to make all these points about DBZ. What you have also failed to remember also is that if your biggest gripe is the length and the cut ins before the next episode, is that I've mentioned that there are Movies about the series and these can be enjoyed (or not) in one setting. But being less than a gold fish(which is close but still lower than Bush) you can't remember what does not benefit your inpalpable argument and only the one's you think you have some kind of edge on. As of now, you have just made Haterade a Genius because he said something and sticked to it. I thank you for you effort but you proved to be another 15 famers that burn out in your own inabilities.

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 03:12 PM
On 2002-06-07 12:29, Last_Saiyan wrote:
OMG this is funny!!
rofl omg omg lol

Sure you have the right to disagree, but you're opinion vs. one of an establishment that is dedicated to give you insights and info on the subject..I'd go with the reliable source of the magazine.

Did you even read what I said about Funimation? Clearly not. Now, the first mistake you made was mentioning the magazine at all, when the issue at stake was just between me disliking DBZ and you trying to tell me that I shouldn't, because it is OBVIOUSLY, OBJECTIVELY A GOOD SHOW THAT IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE DISLIKED. I don't see why you'd care so much about my taste, but whatever. Having a magazine say that DBZ is the greatest show ever does not preclude my disliking it. I don't have to agree with Animerica no more than I have to agree with you. Can you tell me why this wouldn't be the case? Probably not, unless your precious magazine is God.

I'm not trying to convince you not to like the show. So why are you so adamant in trying to make me like it? You remind me of elementary school bullies... do this or I will do everything to try to make you look stupid. Unfortunately, it's not working well in your favor.

You're not a fish, a gold fish has 3.2 seconds of memory...you have 1.1 if less because you forgot that you liking something so similiar with what you had just fought makes you a complete hypocrit and so what does that say about your whole effort? Sailor Moon is nothing like DBZ.


Well, to start it off...that you say all these things and make your points but you like the same thing in something else and saying that it is "enjoyable" doesn't make it true...if so then I wouldn't have to make all these points about DBZ.

I didn't say I liked the filler in Sailor Moon. In fact, I always skip the filler episodes when watching it straight through. These episodes, unlike in DBZ, are enjoyable on their own, and not just as a part of a saga. If I began watching DBZ in the middle of the Freeza battle, I would have gotten extremely bored; whereas every Sailor Moon episode can be enjoyed individually.


What you have also failed to remember also is that if your biggest gripe is the length and the cut ins before the next episode, is that I've mentioned that there are Movies about the series and these can be enjoyed (or not) in one setting.
I actually did enjoy one of the DBZ movies. (I can't remember which one it was... the one with the "Mr. Piccolo, I love you" song.) This is a poor attempt at steering my attention away from the main issue, though. Because we are talking about the series, not the movies.


But being less than a gold fish(which is close but still lower than Bush) you can't remember what does not benefit your inpalpable argument and only the one's you think you have some kind of edge on.
This is funny coming from a person who has continually failed to address all the points I have come up with previously to counter yours.


As of now, you have just made Haterade a Genius because he said something and sticked to it. I thank you for you effort but you proved to be another 15 famers that burn out in your own inabilities.

Excuse me, but I believe I have just popped your prematurely inflated head.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 03:36 PM
It's insanely hilarious because my postings were about people bashing DBZ's and here you come using it to victimize yourself. If I was that bully at school, it would be like this. I was minding my own business then you came along and dared me that I couldn't take your lunch money. Because I was the one defending the bashing of DBZ I offered outlets that you can enjoy the show, which in your case was the movie, so I was right. There is a way to go around the series and enjoy the product. I never said in any of my post that it was the greatest show, that you "have" to like it, nor did I say that you have to agree with any magazines and or especially, you have to agree with me. You stated your rants, I answered them with solutions. You get personal, I give you back your medicine then you get mad at me and accuse me of not letting you think what you think. You totally made up all these little side things for, I don't know what benefits, and in a way shadow-argued yourself. Once again I appologize if this came out wrong. I asked the bashers why they dislike DBZ, they gave reasons, I gave solutions on how to enjoy it if they wanted to. Alielle, I feel the only reason you got this far was that it's hard for you to let things go and you have the ego issue. In all fairness of hypocrocy, you cried about me not letting you think that DBZ sucks but then you're the one that makes a big deal when I have say what I like. Do you see it now? If you are as good an observer as you claim to be then you would realized all. The meat of the thing here is, people made claims about DBZ. I ask for proof of the claims, they answered, I gave them outlets to see if from a different view. Then you came along and take exerts out (the one you feel you have a point in) then you twist things and you go off subject. Which probably explains why the other 2 posters have gotten the point and you're the only one coming back and again to get yourself a confidence boost. n_n

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 04:38 PM
Bullshit. You've constantly misinterpreted what I said, and just plain ignored everything else. Not to mention the barely subtle comments insulting my intelligence. For example: "The series are made and intend for long running, if you are oblivious to story telling and plot constructions then you won't understand." Or "Alielle, if what you say is true then you must hate every animes that are episode format...like, Trigun, Gundams, Outlaw Star and on and on.. because your complaints aren't geared towards DBZ itself but rather the formulas that had made animes that span more than 4 series work, prosper, and survive." (This was toward a perfectly valid comment that DBZ was too long -- which you even admitted to!!, the art unappealing, and the pace too slow.) Or "Actually I've decided to be the "bigger" person and step on to better plains. That is why I posted what I did on Batman rather than go on and on because you guy will never understand the concept." Or "All of your rants proves that you will fail miserably if you ever ran a cartoon project because of your ineffective thinking." Or "If you like inhibiting your life then that's your problem, but don't tell other people that a certain thing is bad just because you don't have the ability to appreciate it." (Oh yes, I'm sooo inhibiting my life, and I must be retarded not to appreciate DBZ.) Or "Good, now that I got you line and sinker." (As though your post was just a plot to get me to respond. HOW VERY CLEVER OF YOU SMARTY SMARTPERSON!) Or "But being less than a gold fish(which is close but still lower than Bush) you can't remember what does not benefit your inpalpable argument and only the one's you think you have some kind of edge on."

What I'm objecting to is your constant need to reaffirm your brainy brains, all the while ignoring absolutely every point I made. I don't understand where you came to the conclusion that you are the noble, respectable, intelligent one here when you have failed each time to even address anything that I brought up.


Alielle, I feel the only reason you got this far was that it's hard for you to let things go and you have the ego issue.

I think you are mistaking me for you. This should have been a non-issue, but I'm not going to sit there and let you insult me and ignore my points and then celebrate your non-victory before you've done anything to win it.

It looks pretty stupid to make a huge asswipe of yourself, and then claim you're innocent.

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 04:55 PM
Also: The only reason I began refuting you is because you were claiming that all we were doing was ranting. As one poster pointed out, we gave our reasons, and you struck them down as being "too opinionated." And if you recall, I made several rather long posts that corrected your misinterpretations and assumptions. But you continued to make strawperson arguments, building up false constructions of what we were saying and then tearing them down. Or you would say things like we have problems if we don't enjoy DBZ. I'm not arguing against you because I need an ego boost; I'm setting things straight. But it's kind of difficult when you keep calling us stupid (in your lovely, passive-agressive subtle way) and acting like your tastes in cartoons are the paragon of human development or something, and that you're too good to be bothered with understanding or even acknowledging my points.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 05:01 PM
I'm not claiming anything, once again you succeeded to piss your own self off and once again you clipped out excerpts of what you want. I made polite points until certain posters came in and made immature comments with no real back value. As for me admitting that the show was a long show, once again you take out what benefits you...and leaving out that I "said" long is not a bad thing. You came back with the Simpsons are different because of this and that..well, then why are you defending the Simpson and not just let me be with my opinions about the Simpson. Weren't you the one that was whining over me not letting you have your own disagreements? Someone is not taking their own medicine well. I'm not claiming to be a noble and self righteous person but I have stood up for people who were mistreated in this community, I've help people in need, and I've been really unbiased as I can try, but I have the right to ask people why they say that a certain thing sucks. You mentioned that Sailor Moon had the same flaw as DBZ like the filler episodes, but then you stated that though you liked the DBZ movies you were talking about the series instead. Make up your mind, are you going to argue with the true objectives or are you just trying to break apart points that you think you can win. I've made my point across, I said it's either for you or not for you, it's a toss. I just wanted your valid reasons for not liking the show, I got them and I gave solutions on how to enjoy it. Each time you come back it's the same thing over and over again, you break apart what you want to talk about then make of sob stories and then disappear. As of now, I don't know what you wanted to prove anymore unless it's that you have a control issue and you are one of those who has to have the last word. I've left the topic until Haterade brought it back up, then I addressed him and then you came back. I think your problems can be solved, but not by coming back here and making a "nag" about yourself. n_n

Balthor
Jun 7, 2002, 05:14 PM
holy shit this is more intense then that whole yucca mountain nuclear waste dump shit theyre talking about over here.....*hands abdur popcorn*lets watch on see who wins! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Alielle
Jun 7, 2002, 05:37 PM
On 2002-06-07 15:01, Last_Saiyan wrote:
I'm not claiming anything, once again you succeeded to piss your own self off and once again you clipped out excerpts of what you want.
Wow, you're the king of denial. What I did was attempt to show you how hostile you've been to me, for simply stating my opinions about DBZ. Apparently, it's totally lost on you, and you have no idea how much of a jerk you've sounded like.


I made polite points until certain posters came in and made immature comments with no real back value. As for me admitting that the show was a long show, once again you take out what benefits you...and leaving out that I "said" long is not a bad thing.All you said was that it was long. Toriyama didn't simply say that it was long... he said it was TOO long.

You came back with the Simpsons are different because of this and that..well, then why are you defending the Simpson and not just let me be with my opinions about the Simpson.You pointed out The Simpsons as an example of a quality, long-running show. I agreed, but I also pointed out that The Simpsons and DBZ are completely different in style.

Weren't you the one that was whining over me not letting you have your own disagreements? Someone is not taking their own medicine well.
I don't care if you like DBZ, but like I said, I'm not gonna sit here and let you insult my intelligence and make strawperson arguments.

I'm not claiming to be a noble and self righteous person but I have stood up for people who were mistreated in this community, I've help people in need, and I've been really unbiased as I can try, but I have the right to ask people why they say that a certain thing sucks.
Yes, and I told you why many times. You just chose to ignore.

You mentioned that Sailor Moon had the same flaw as DBZ like the filler episodes,
Yes, I'm glad you can read. But if you had read more carefully, you would have noticed that I said Sailor Moon episodes can be enjoyed on their own, unlike many DBZ episodes.

but then you stated that though you liked the DBZ movies you were talking about the series instead.
I said I liked ONE DBZ movie. One DBZ movie does not equal all of DBZ.

Make up your mind, are you going to argue with the true objectives or are you just trying to break apart points that you think you can win.
Start making sense.

I've made my point across, I said it's either for you or not for you, it's a toss. I just wanted your valid reasons for not liking the show, I got them and I gave solutions on how to enjoy it.
I don't remember many solutions other than the movie thing. Everything else you've said was just you arguing, saying my opinions aren't valid.

Each time you come back it's the same thing over and over again, you break apart what you want to talk about then make of sob stories and then disappear.
Uh-huh. Sob stories? Where?

As of now, I don't know what you wanted to prove anymore unless it's that you have a control issue and you are one of those who has to have the last word. Pot calling the kettle black.

I've left the topic until Haterade brought it back up, then I addressed him and then you came back. I think your problems can be solved, but not by coming back here and making a "nag" about yourself. n_n

The problem is you being an ineffective arguer and a jerk to boot.

I'm going to enjoy life now [which, strangely enough, is possible without watching DBZ!!!!], bye!

haterade
Jun 7, 2002, 05:52 PM
Oh, man... Aielle seems to be REAMING this guy... I can't belive you're making such a big deal about people not liking your bread and butter...and even though I was partly drunk when I wrote what I said, I read it this morning and found it was quite true. Even the part about you being an idiot. Just because some people aren't jumping on the DBZ dick doesn't mean that you have to cry when someone says something... remove that SS4.9255487-35 wang out of your mouth and stop ignoring the DBZ facts. But, hey, how much can I expect from a guy who named himself "Last Saiyan"...lmao..what a moron http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 06:04 PM
Once again, the Queen of misquoting returns!! No one was hostile towards you, you victimized yourself from the beginning. I chose to ignore what was not important and unpertaining to the subject, you chose to select everything that has nothing to do with the subject. Calling me a jerk gives me a sense that maybe you are a little upset. This is a debate, you mustn't let your feelings and emotions get the best of you. See you pick and pull and reply but never answered the subject in whole because that's all you can do. My solutions were: If you don't like the cut offs till the next episode: watch the movies, Art too much the same: see Simpson, Running too long: see Simpson, Toriyama draws the same style: see the Simpson, No plot: see where I said that if this was everything then we'd be without chick mud wrestling, and also..see the Simpson, now if all these qualities are so similiar to the Simpson then ummm... Your just jealous because you wanted Goku but he's taken. One thing I found that you have in common with the franchise is your ability to change into a "Monkey". Nobody even cares about your remarks anymore, even one of your supporter would rather sit back and watch us spat. He got the idea that I'm not trying to force anyone to like DBZ, I gave suggestions and if you don't like the suggestions then *looks at Abdur..sigh, you can go free. Hehehe, in fact this is the 3rd or 4th time I have to bring this up.. it's a toss on whether you like it or not. You seem to ignore this over and over..oh wait, yeah, the control issue. Like I said, I left the topic until Haterade brought it up then I addressed it then you came back for more. You rant on and on about people not allowing you think your mind through but you're the one pressing hard on why I shouldn't say this or should say that. I admit that DBZ has it's flaws but you hadn't admit that it has any values...why does this sound a little bias. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif You're one of those who can't compromise and refuse to meet people half way, you're the one that's imposing missie and acting like a jerkette. Let it go, no one asked you to watch DBZ, it's in your mind so don't cry and point at me. As before, I'm leaving this post and will be talking about Rainbow Brite. Mexican Tediz, pass the popcorn over...I heard that fussy chicks can lap dance with the best of them.

haterade
Jun 7, 2002, 06:08 PM
Oh, and The Simpsons in no shape, form or fashion can be compared to DBZ. Who gives a f*ck about the drawings? The humor (past) greatly makes up for that. Hell, I haven't met a single person that said "Waaah, I can't watch it because of the animation!". Comedy does a great deal for a show, you know. And as Aielle said, it's more of a sitcom than a kids show. You're probably one of those "childlike" adults that use their skills in martial arts to assault anyone who has something negative to say about DBZ.

Guy: "Goku's fireballs take 3 episodes to fire! That sucks!"

Last Saiyan: "What did you say about Goku!?!? That's my boy! WAAAAAAAAAAYYAAAAA!!!"

*SMACK!*

lmao...what a moron... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Balthor
Jun 7, 2002, 06:10 PM
uhhh im outta popcorn? o_O *does not want to get involved no more*and im outttttta here!*someone keep my seat warm*.... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 06:18 PM
Haterade, you're still drunk because the dick belongs in your mouth. I assume Haterade is a well thought name too?! If you can get sober for one sec and read the post, I never said anyone had to like DBZ nor is it better than any other Anime's out there. Now I feel like you're bashing a brotha because he wants to vote. The DBZ facts? I hope you are more careful than Alielle on collecting "Facts", show me one fact that DBZ sucks. Thank you Haterade, take that dick out of your mouth it's embarrasing...no, the Ass is not the place for that either, nm put it back in your mouth. I wasn't crying my friend, just laughing because the bash made towards DBZ at that time were like 2 lines long and it made no sense, that's why I asked for more pertinent reasons. Alielle came in and brought some pretty constructive points but she kept tripping over her own words and then she got into the habit of cut pasting what she decides is the subject and goes way off then she pee's in herself. Then came you with no valid arguments whatsoever, I mean I can't blame a guy who can't Distinguish Anime's from eachother..Thus this whole Post was made to assist your handicap...so if I were you, I'd sit back and learn and let the pro's do it. But I guess you weren't here to debate, you're just here to cheer for your friend. It's okay, I understand that when you're that stupid once you find a friend you better not lose them or else it's hard later on the road. 3 cheers for Haterade, oh and...umm, w/o DBZ and other famous but often bashed animes....there wouldn't be a market for shining ones to come out. We all remember the 80's.

watashiwa
Jun 7, 2002, 06:24 PM
Can't we discuss things without calling each other names or flaming?

Just because you guys and gals are discussing anime, doesn't mean you have to argue your points like children.

Be clear in your points. If the other person doesn't get it, refuses to get it, etc,. just move along. You did your part. They can keep saying whatever until they're blue in the face, you don't really have to stoop down to name calling or anything. It really isn't neccessary.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 06:29 PM
Well, haterade was drunk so she didn't mind it. But you're right, how careless of me. Goes back to watch Rainbow Brite.

haterade
Jun 7, 2002, 06:45 PM
On 2002-06-07 16:18, Last_Saiyan wrote:
Haterade, you're still drunk...



Wish I was.




I assume Haterade is a well thought name too?!



Well yeah, it is. You won't see my name HALF as much as you'd see a name with SAIYAN on the net...originality is a lovely thing IMO...lol



Now I feel like you're bashing a brotha because he wants to vote.



No, I just bash dick riders. Sorry.




The DBZ facts? I hope you are more careful than Alielle on collecting "Facts", show me one fact that DBZ sucks.




Hmmm... what did I say again. Things in the show basically take too long to happen, and EVERYONE knows that. Also the plots are quite lame. I can sum up EVERYTHING about DBZ in less than a paragraph: Enemy arrives; Heroes beat enemy. Stronger enemy arrives; Heroes train, and eventually beat enemy. Take that last sentence and repeat it 50x, and you have the whol DBZ concept. I saw a few movies...pretty lame plots there too, but I guess you'll get a teary-eyed for me on that too.


I wasn't crying my friend, just laughing because the bash made towards DBZ at that time were like 2 lines long and it made no sense...



Wow, you couldn't understand the simple fact that I said the show ran too long and the plots were weak? How stupid are you?


Then came you with no valid arguments whatsoever...



Kiddo, read above.


I mean I can't blame a guy who can't Distinguish Anime's from eachother..Thus this whole Post was made to assist your handicap...so if I were you, I'd sit back and learn and let the pro's do it.



I can't distinguish anime from other anime!? Wow, I though what you said before was pretty stupid, but THIS is just plain retarded. All I said was that all of them revolve around one thing: summoning animals, and many folks did agree, so I guess WE ALL can't distinguish anime...god, you're stupid...and you try so hard to sound intelligent too...laughable


But I guess you weren't here to debate, you're just here to cheer for your friend. It's okay, I understand that when you're that stupid once you find a friend you better not lose them or else it's hard later on the road. 3 cheers for Haterade, oh and...umm, w/o DBZ and other famous but often bashed animes....there wouldn't be a market for shining ones to come out. We all remember the 80's.



I don't know or speak to Aielle, but I do love and support intelligent responses http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif As for the 80's...you seem like you were born in 85 and up...kiddo....what a moron http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Balthor
Jun 7, 2002, 06:53 PM
hey i was born in 86 http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif STOP MAKING US YOUNGER PEOPLE LOOK BAD SAIYEN! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif look plain and simple:saiyen likes his dbz show,about me and 4 more others disagree and dont like it,there simple right?no need for all this insanity over one show?someone is just gonna reply,make a defense,another will reply,make another defense,and so on....and so on......and so on.......and so on..........and you get the point right?everyone just cool it! -.-;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mexican_Tediz_MK2 on 2002-06-07 16:56 ]</font>

Last_Saiyan
Jun 7, 2002, 06:54 PM
I think your love for intelligent response is false. You're first reponse proved that. At least Alielle kept her cool and didn't resort to cursing...jerk was the worst thing she said. You came out like a sailor and that was round one. 85 and up? I've brought this up before, some kids born from 90 and up are smarter than you so stop bashing them too. I love the Simpson but when points brought up against DBZ came close to the ones that could be said to the Simpsons I used that and sure enough, if it happened to be something that someone likes then they're quick to come and defend it and get's defensive...sounds familiar?!! I don't care if you like DBZ or not, like I've said many times before, it's a toss and it's your choice, but if you come to a post and make remarks, you better back it up and if someone reacts to your remark, don't get pissy pissy. Alielle has been given good argumentive procedures-I'm not taking that away from her but you on the other hand comes in, cusses, then goes out and have the dignity to say that you "love" intelligent responses?!! Take some more time to sober up buds.

pixelate
Jun 7, 2002, 07:38 PM
I want a penguin. My favorite anime... http://www.pixeldissonance.org/gifs/pengy.gif Yeaaaaa!

Alielle
Jun 8, 2002, 01:04 PM
You know, I was gonna leave this topic alone but you had to go and run your mouth again. No offense, but you're so full of shit, Saiyan. Claiming that I'm the Queen of Misquoting won't do you much good when you don't even bother to quote or even address ANYTHING that I say (conveniently ignoring all my points by saying that they are invalid - or misinterpreting them altogether). You need to take a basic logic class. You can't just ignore something that doesn't suit you and then keep talking about other shit that I didn't even say (such as the stuff about the Simpsons -- once again, did you even read what I said?! In one ear and out the other I guess.) And show me ONE TIME that I said "DBZ sucks." All I ever said was that I didn't like it, and I told you why. You are the one throwing the hissy fit; I just happen to have the patience to sit down and restate, over and over, what I've been trying to say because your skull is thicker than the paste caked on a retarded kindergartener's face.


On 2002-06-07 16:04, Last_Saiyan wrote:
Calling me a jerk gives me a sense that maybe you are a little upset.
I'm upset you're a jerk because it's true. Evidence of this is apparent in every one of your posts. By the way, thanks for calling me a monkey this time! It sure is more flattering than constantly berating my intelligence, or calling me a fish with a 1.1 second memory.

This is a debate, you mustn't let your feelings and emotions get the best of you.
Heh. Who's getting emotional? I think you're just upset that you can't comprehend anything that I've ever said to you.

See you pick and pull and reply but never answered the subject in whole because that's all you can do.
I quoted and responded to exactly everything that you said. You are the one picking and pulling, friend.

My solutions were: If you don't like the cut offs till the next episode: watch the movies,
I don't care about the "cut offs till the next episode"; it's hardly suspenseful or even interesting. But if you remember, we weren't talking about the movies.

Art too much the same: see Simpson, Running too long: see Simpson,
This doesn't eevn make sense. And I didn't even make any comments about the art "being too much the same"; I just said it was ugly.
Toriyama draws the same style: see the Simpson,
I don't know anyone who watches The Simpsons for the art.

No plot: see where I said that if this was everything then we'd be without chick mud wrestling,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

and also..see the Simpson, now if all these qualities are so similiar to the Simpson then ummm...
Go read the stuff I said about the Simpsons immediately. Come back when you've understood it.

Your just jealous because you wanted Goku but he's taken.
...Yeah, I'm hot for his squat, bulgy body and his sexy receding hairline. Impressive one, there. Everyone is bowing to your astounding observations.

One thing I found that you have in common with the franchise is your ability to change into a "Monkey".
Wow, you really are such a nice guy. Not a jerk at all; nope!

Nobody even cares about your remarks anymore, even one of your supporter would rather sit back and watch us spat.
Because I don't need any help smashing your flailing-arm rantings to pieces.

He got the idea that I'm not trying to force anyone to like DBZ, I gave suggestions and if you don't like the suggestions then *looks at Abdur..sigh, you can go free.
If that's true, than you would have shut up already. And your "suggestion[s]" were laughable at best. (I only saw one - watch the movies... and I DID, remember?! As a matter of fact, I fell asleep while watching it, waking only for the "Mr. Piccolo" song, which was its only redeeming factor. Yes, that song is the only reason I liked that movie.)

Hehehe, in fact this is the 3rd or 4th time I have to bring this up.. it's a toss on whether you like it or not. You seem to ignore this over and over..oh wait, yeah, the control issue.
Control issue? I left for the day and you're still talking about it. In fact, you continued to talk about it for several more posts. Who's got the control issue?

You enjoy making noise like this, don't you?


Like I said, I left the topic until Haterade brought it up then I addressed it then you came back for more.
I only come back because you constistantly ignore and misinterpreted what we said.

You rant on and on about people not allowing you think your mind through but you're the one pressing hard on why I shouldn't say this or should say that.
What are you talking about? I've never forced anything on you; I've only explained and reexplained stuff that you continually fail to understand. (It's apparently useless.)

I admit that DBZ has it's flaws but you hadn't admit that it has any values...why does this sound a little bias. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
You never admitted to DBZ having any flaws. The only thing close to it was that you said it was long, but you later said that that didn't make it bad. I'll give credit where credit's due - (sure the show's globally popular, but so was Michael Jackson), but I'm not gonna say I love it when it's the complete opposite case.

You're one of those who can't compromise and refuse to meet people half way, you're the one that's imposing missie and acting like a jerkette.
What are we compromising here, exactly? The fact that you like DBZ and I don't doesn't exactly entail a compromise. It sounds like YOU are trying to force something on me, here.

Let it go, no one asked you to watch DBZ, it's in your mind so don't cry and point at me.
You love making yourself look like an idiot, don't you? When did I ever "cry and point at you"? I don't see any shedding of tears except maybe at your end, from someone who can't accept the fact that someone doesn't like your precious cartoon. Oh, wait, I'm obviously "biased," and have said nothing of worth to even pay attention to; let's keep pounding on the keyboard at me about how much crying and hurting over your inability to comprehend.

As before, I'm leaving this post and will be talking about Rainbow Brite. Mexican Tediz, pass the popcorn over...I heard that fussy chicks can lap dance with the best of them.

Once again, who's the one getting emotional, sir "I'm not a jerk"?

All I'm saying is that I don't like your favorite show, and I've told you my reasons why. Your attempts to defend DBZ only resulted in me laughing at them -- the Simpsons comparison - it's a show made in a different country, for a completely different purpose... like I said, go comprehend what I said above. If it's too hard, I'm sorry you failed, but don't come whining to me about how I'm "biased," because it's a complete crock. And come on, chick mud wrestling? We all know how much that's a boon to the world. Well, I'm glad your favorite show shares the awesome storyline and intellectual depths of boobies in mud, but I'm not an idiot, thank you.

If I had any inclination to see Dragonball Z before you started arguing with me, you'd have totally destroyed it. Excellent work.

I've given you many chances to show that you're capable of understanding what I said, but you blew it time and time again. Well, I'm out of patience, so you'll never get that chance again. Sorry friend: you lost.

ABDUR101
Jun 8, 2002, 02:02 PM
On 2002-06-08 11:04, Alielle wrote:

Your just jealous because you wanted Goku but he's taken.
...Yeah, I'm hot for his squat, bulgy body and his sexy receding hairline. Impressive one, there. Everyone is bowing to your astounding observations.


:{

I have a man-love crush on Kaji from NGE, and Katan from Angel Sanctuary, and Tsuhiko Shido from Night Walker...but, Goku isn't getting my man-beef >_>

I swear, if this goes on any further, I'm going toh look yaoi pictures of Katan and Shido http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

g0th_gUrL
Jun 8, 2002, 02:03 PM
<blink>

Now children, calm down. Have we forgotten that we all probably live miles away from each other, and insulting people online is kinda wimpy... and childish. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be calling each other monkeys were you face to face... didnt we leave that back in the 2nd grade? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

ABDUR101
Jun 8, 2002, 02:07 PM
On 2002-06-08 12:03, g0th_gUrL wrote:
<blink>
and insulting people online is kinda wimpy... and childish. ...didnt we leave that back in the 2nd grade? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


DIRTY GOTH!!

*goth gurl looks to see who said that*
...
*points to Saiyan*
<_<

g0th_gUrL
Jun 8, 2002, 02:09 PM
hehe i should have never posted that whole dirty goth thing. BLAH!!

atleast i'm not a private message whore! neiner neiner!!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

ABDUR101
Jun 8, 2002, 02:12 PM
On 2002-06-08 12:09, g0th_gUrL wrote:
atleast i'm not a private message whore! neiner neiner!!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


HEY! Thats Forum and Private Message Whore to YOU missy.

Besides..atleast when I get a job, I set out to do it right..
<_<

Just admit it, you'll never be as big a whore as me.

g0th_gUrL
Jun 8, 2002, 02:14 PM
On 2002-06-08 12:12, ABDUR101 wrote:

Just admit it, you'll never be as big a whore as me.



so.. so! AGH! <throws spitball at Abdur>

ABDUR101
Jun 8, 2002, 02:18 PM
On 2002-06-08 12:14, g0th_gUrL wrote:
so.. so! AGH! <throws spitball at Abdur>


..you threw a spitball? o_O

*pulls out bucket full of spit and paper and begins chasing goth-gurl around*

Muahahahah

g0th_gUrL
Jun 8, 2002, 02:19 PM
On 2002-06-08 12:18, ABDUR101 wrote:

*pulls out bucket full of spit and paper and begins chasing goth-gurl around*

Muahahahah



hehehe... luckily i still remember this trick, you taught me it!!

*poof* <disappears>

ABDUR101
Jun 8, 2002, 02:23 PM
On 2002-06-08 12:19, g0th_gUrL wrote:
hehehe... luckily i still remember this trick, you taught me it!!

*poof* <disappears>

*GASP*
I taught you not that! Blackrose did! Taught you that damn trick in the Lunch-table thread he did!

*bitch slaps self out of Yoda speech*

Ah well, I'll just leave me..bucket of spit and paper here..you know..incase someone else needs spit and paper...for..something.

I'd poof myself out of here...but I'm afraid of where I go when I poof o_O

*remembers the kittens poofing into nothingess*

Alielle, Last-Saiyan. You are in a stalemate. Just let it go. Here, I'll settle it.

Alielle, you're right, entirely.

Last-Saiyan, you're right, entirely.

LOCK PLEASE!?

Balthor
Jun 8, 2002, 02:35 PM
this thread has been hijacked,(and for the better to)now lets all look at these pretty red x's and forgot that whole nasty fight mmmmmmk?
hskckjsc dfsfew hglkjcdglkjdgkjd hlehfdlefhlah hksdhlshsd

Alielle
Jun 8, 2002, 02:36 PM
You know, some kid almost got sent to juvie for hitting some other kid in the eye with a spitball. It's true, I read it on the Internet. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway, I also propose a lock! I'm sick of talking about DBZ. ^_^

haterade
Jun 8, 2002, 08:01 PM
*reads Aielles last post; chuckles*

Buskerfest!

Sojo
Jun 8, 2002, 08:36 PM
Right, I can't be arsed reading all that nonsense; the endless quotes just get on my nerves!!

But I will say that animation style does define the series. There are many fantastic anime serieses out there which have art styles that aren't as good as some others.
Look at Hokuto Shin ken, Lupin III, Digimon, Giant Robo, all their artworks are not the greatest out there, but they still are decent serieses.
Especially Hokuto Shin Ken and Lupin III, they are both long running and Lupin has had several movies, and they are both fantastic animes.

And enough of this, "I think that (enter anime here) is crap, and it is the worst in the world because I say so! So there, actually!" That's just your opinion, and the overall success and longevity of the animes in question suggest otherwise.
Dragon Ball Z has already withstood the test of time.

And about DBZ, the plot of the Cell saga was shite, and filled with lots of time consuming nonsense, because it really was a half-hearted attempt, AKira Toriyama didn't really ant to do it.

The original idea was to have DBZ finish when Goku goes Super-Saiyan and kills Frieza. After that he was supposed to go mad with his power, just like the first Super-Saiyan, and set about destroying Frieza's entire empire and never be seen again.
That's why I think it was called Dragon Ball Z; Z - the end of the alphabet, and the end of Dragon Ball....

Alielle
Jun 9, 2002, 10:26 AM
I saw a bit of Lupin and I really liked it. It was funny and unique... wish I could see more. It was the episode in which a reward was offered for finding a cat that eats pencil shavings or something. o_O

Hmm, off to make cookies!

FinalMasterM
Jun 9, 2002, 10:46 AM
On 2002-06-08 18:36, Sojo wrote:
The original idea was to have DBZ finish when Goku goes Super-Saiyan and kills Frieza. After that he was supposed to go mad with his power, just like the first Super-Saiyan, and set about destroying Frieza's entire empire and never be seen again.
That's why I think it was called Dragon Ball Z; Z - the end of the alphabet, and the end of Dragon Ball....



Ummm... no, you should really find the press confrence with Akira when he ended his DragonBall franchise to move onto Dr.X (I think thats what it was called). He said (can't quote cuz its been a while since I read it) that he didn't intend to keep DBZ going, after Goku defeated Frieza he ment to end it, but decided to continue the story due to popular demand. Thats why we got Garlic Jr. which was a upset to him because he never wanted the movies to go along with the series, but needed something todo as a gap before Goku was to return to earth. Also, Goku wasn't suppose to go mad and kill himself, why? Well at the end of GT you find out why the last SSJ had to be in his alter-form to use the great power, for non-anime fans this is told to everyone by Akira in a book he wrote about DB/DBZ (I won't ruin GT for anyone so I won't say anymore).

DBZ was ment to revolve around Goku's and Kama's origins (Vegeta and Namak) and the end to the evil Frieza who not only distoryed Vegeta, but also planned on distorying Namak (which he did anyway) after making his wish (read manga, not sure which issue).

Z doesn't mean the end of the series, even tho. it was suppose to be. Next you'll be telling me that the GT in DBGT means something.

EDIT: Typos...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FinalMasterM on 2002-06-09 08:51 ]</font>

JohnCable
Jun 9, 2002, 03:53 PM
I would like to point out that Dragon Ball Z is objectively a bad show. Note lack of the word "subjectively," which implies opinion, but "objectively," which implies fact.

And I can prove it. Some people may not want to hear it, but reasons are here, waiting. Last_Saiyan may have a green belt in Nike Arobics Training, but that won't prepare him for this.

Deathscythealpha
Jun 9, 2002, 06:16 PM
On 2002-06-09 08:46, FinalMasterM wrote:
Next you'll be telling me that the GT in DBGT means something.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FinalMasterM on 2002-06-09 08:51 ]</font>


Doesnt it mean Grand Tour?

Last_Saiyan
Jun 10, 2002, 10:57 AM
I knew I'd get this going as good as it is. First I'd like to come back and let everybody know about the great weekend I had. I've won $250 from the Lennox and Tyson fight. Alielle, knowing that one is the crowd favorite doesn't always result in a victory http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif. Okay, let's go over this. For those who knows about how a debate should really go they can see past the technique that Alielle has been using. Just because I paste what someone says "here" then say what I think about that line "here" doesn't mean that it has any solid points. She chose to think so and alot of amateur spectators like Haterade comes in and thinks it's really neat and effective. She had avoided the main purpose of the argument and like I've said time and time before...sticked to what she thinks she has a point in. If we were to talk about cutting down trees, she'd talk about McDonald's french fries. So far it's been that. The main points was that she made her stand about not liking the franchise because of the listed reasons: Too long of a series (No one said you had to watch all of it), lack of continuing action (I mentioned to see the movies), art too much the same (I said see the Simpson, she responded "Well, no one sees it for the art", umm well No one said they saw DBZ for the art also...if you look closely, not so closely, it's a fan-based following. Those fans like the fans that watch the Simpsons watch it for the action as we watch the Simpsons for a laugh. Alielle's just pissed that maybe for years people never stood up to her and now someone has objectively see through her smoke and wires and her arguments aren't as effective. I'm sorry gal but when you have intelligent people talking to you, it's useless to pretend to be someone you're not. Now, after giving all the reasons that you did, I was satisfied and I understood you wanting to stay away from DBZ like the plague..but you then turned yourself into a victim and made me the Big Bad Wolf. This is also a strategy in arguing that has been played to death and it's effectiveness once again only affects the unsuspecting. If you want pity then you can have mine. As for John Cable, you and haterade should go bowling together and talk about simple things like alphabet blocks, preschool puzzles, and Barney cartoons. You start an argument, you back it up with your own dirt..not open it for people to come in and carry your weight. I close with what Abdur said, it's a stalemate really because it's the closest unbiased official statement that this issue can conclude through. Though I've said it myself that it's up to you whether you like it or not, I'm one of the debaters so that couldn't be ruled out and obviously some people won't accept it. So I appreciate all those of you spent your time to read this and I hope it was informative. Peace

Kent
Jun 10, 2002, 01:57 PM
On 2002-06-09 13:53, JohnCable wrote:
I would like to point out that Dragon Ball Z is objectively a bad show. Note lack of the word "subjectively," which implies opinion, but "objectively," which implies fact.

Whether a show is "good" or "bad" is entirely opinion.


And I can prove it.


Hey! Guess what?!

YOU CAN'T!

Opinions are not facts, never will be facts, and never have been facts. I bet that when you try and state why DBZ is "objectively" a bad show, you'll state nothing more than your big-headed opinions.

Why can't some of these people think before they post?

JohnCable
Jun 10, 2002, 07:50 PM
Opinions are not facts, never will be facts, and never have been facts. I bet that when you try and state why DBZ is "objectively" a bad show, you'll state nothing more than your big-headed opinions.

Why can't some of these people think before they post?

And yet I haven't even stated what it was, but you already assume. A lot of you internet people automatically assume that everything, from toast up to E=MC(squared) is just someone's opinion. You haven't reached the concepts of "fact" or "theory" yet apparently.

Well, here's my fact or theory. But you can't say this is an opinion by any definition.

Dragon Ball Z sucks because Dragon Ball Z fans like it. DBZ fandom is a fallacy, the great equalizer between normal anime fans and clueless anime fans who don't get much enrichment in their lives. Last_Saiyan's argument structure has already collapsed under the weight of its lies (yes children, 10 million people CAN be wrong, thinking they are debunks you as a human being).

Some people here have mistaken "opinion" for "any single thought the human race has had for the last 10,000 years." Maybe you can play with some new concepts when you grow up.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JohnCable on 2002-06-10 17:53 ]</font>

Kent
Jun 10, 2002, 08:10 PM
On 2002-06-10 17:50, JohnCable wrote:
A lot of you internet people automatically assume that everything, from toast up to E=MC(squared) is just someone's opinion.

E = MC sq. is a theory.


You haven't reached the concepts of "fact" or "theory" yet apparently.

I have, but you obviously haven't.


Well, here's my fact or theory. But you can't say this is an opinion by any definition.

We'll see about that...


Dragon Ball Z sucks because Dragon Ball Z fans like it.

Looks like an opinion to me.


DBZ fandom is a fallacy,

So... being a fan of an anime series is a false notion?


the great equalizer between normal anime fans and clueless anime fans who don't get much enrichment in their lives.

Looks like someone has a grudge against DBZ fans...


(yes children, 10 million people CAN be wrong, thinking they are debunks you as a human being)

10 million people can be wrong, yes, but 10 million people have the free will to like something or not.


Some people here have mistaken "opinion" for "any single thought the human race has had for the last 10,000 years."

The only person that comes to mind is you, thinking that your personal opinion is a fact, and that people with differing thoughts about something are wrong.

Go ditch your superiority complex before you make yourself any more of a fool.

Balthor
Jun 10, 2002, 08:18 PM
oh my god this garbage is still going on? You guys cant go on without feeling content of winning an online arguemnt.

Please be quiet
> Everybody

Larkin
Jun 10, 2002, 09:28 PM
Okay, I apologize for prolonging the life of this topic, but well...

Dragon Ball Z is not the greatest achievement of the Lilim culture. It's not the greatest action cartoon ever conceived. It's story is repitive and half-assed. Every season can be broken down into the following format (given some mild variations):

-The MOST POWERFUL VILLIAN TO EVER EXIST enters.
-The 'Z-Warriors' must hold off said villian until Goku returns/recovers/finishes his training. Some die ("It's okay kids! He's not REALLY dead! We can bring him back!").
-Goku enters, but even he isn't strong enough to overwhelm this powerful threat.
-By one weird quirk or another, the villian is defeated and everything is set right by the Dragon Balls ("See, kids? We told you he wasn't dead!")

Not only are the stories the same, but so are the villians. Okay, sure they all have a different gimick or motive, but all of them have the same mentality:
-Vegeta: "I am the Prince of all Saiyans! I cannot be defeated!"
-Freiza: "I am the most powerful being in the universe! I cannot be defeated!"
-Cell: "I am the perfect being! I cannot be defeated!"
This does not an interesting show make.

And then there's the actual storyline. Is it just me, or does the story seem to be written in ten episode increments and then given to some else to finish (like the game you would play in grade school)? Let's see, how was the saiyan home world destroyed? King Kai, the all knowing, describes its destruction as being a result of the Saiyan's own wickedness (or something, I could be wrong). Vegeta, the PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS, says it was destroyed by a rogue metore (one would think that being the ruler of an entire people would warrant him knowing precisely how his planet was destroyed even if Freiza kept it secret). And of course, the final explaination offered is that the planet was destroyed by the MOST POWERFUL BEING IN THE UNIVERSE, Freiza (and Vegeta just happened to be on Freiza's ship when it happened, too!).
Yup, Freiza's the most powerful being ever to exist, unless you include his father... and brother...
"Only four Saiyans survived the destruction of our home planet: myself, Nappa, Radditz and you, Kakarrot. Oh, and Turlis. And Brolly, I forgot to mention him, too."

And by the way, Toriyama quit doing Dragon Ball Z not only because it was too long, but also repitive.

Don't get me wrong, I have found some aspects of the show entertaining (Goku teleporting at the last second to blast Cell [COOL!], who doesn't die [Oh, that's no big surprise]). Dead Zone and The World's Strongest were also fun to watch except that neither fit into the DBZ timeline [Deadzone: "Oh Goku! We didn't know you had a son!" 1st episode of DBZ: "Oh Goku! We didn't know you had a son!"] and the World's Strongest's ending just plain sucked.

Okay, that's enough outta me.

JohnCable
Jun 10, 2002, 09:49 PM
E = MC sq. is a theory.

So obviously you can't prove that it's an opinion, I don't see why you even bothered to say anything. You missed the point. What are you, a DBZ fan or something? (I'm implying that you're dumb.)


So... being a fan of an anime series is a false notion?

Glorifying an inferior kid's cartoon is a lie. You are operating on a staggeringly superficial level.

Next time, when you reply to someone, make sure not to base it off "definition 1.a" from a dictionary.

KodiaX987
Jun 10, 2002, 10:00 PM
You guys all suck.



FORE!!!

*smacks a golf ball into a mod's head*

jello44
Jun 10, 2002, 11:27 PM
not that it matters or anything, but I used to watch DBZ. This was back Wayyyyyyyy before it even became remotely popular. It was on at like 8am on Sunday, and it was good. Then Cartoon Network got a hold of it, still haven't watched every episode (due to sleeping and just plain forgetting) I watched it. Then when the fight with Freeza comes up, it goes back to the beginning. People probably saying "what the fuck? What happens" (note Sailor Moon did this as well) Then they say there are getting new episodes, right here is where it goes all downhill. The Voices abosolutely sucked hard. They all tried to sound like the original VAs, which is a big no-no (look at the new dub of Sailor Moon, it was horriable to hear those voices) Then for some odd reason it became so popular, and all of a sudden its "cool" to watch a "cartoon". This is probably one of the reasons why people say that DBZ "sucks" which of course is a matter of opinion. Because it in fact became popular outside of the anime community, and therefore it is no longer good. Hey, I'm not ashamed to say I used to watch it. Infact, the movies were actually pretty good, although it was totally out of the story line (ok all anime movies based on the show ARE supposed to be, but they have to be consistant with the show). Infact, if there is nothing else really on, I'll keep it on, just to see what happens. Just my $.02.

haterade
Jun 10, 2002, 11:36 PM
Larkin, you know that Last_Saiyan is going to completely disregard EVERYTHING you've just said, right? What you've said is quite true, and it has been said before in many different ways. Those are obvious facts about WHY people think the show is pretty garbage...but those who are too hardheaded to see such facts won't bother to "take it in". Just save yourself a bunch of pointless argument from Last_Saiyan and say "I LOVE DBZ!! GIMME MORE!!" I'm sick of all his dick riding and crying anyway...

I don't have the time to make a 40 page essay about why I think the show sucks...it's been told time and time again...and two words describe what many have said: tedious repetition.

What's even worse is the fact that Last_Saiyan attempts to question my intelligence over a DBZ argument...how...laughable...lol. Crying about Aielle being a fan favorite...didn't we kill all of this net popularity bullshit months ago? YOU have some issues, kiddo. Experience women and love, lust or what have you sometime, man...it does wonders. Net popularity is NOTHING...plus, I don't remember Aielle being anybody's favorite poster as you somewhat said...

PLEASE! Everyone say that DBZ is the best goddamn anime show ever created!! End Last_Saiyan's whiny bitching and incredibly weak arguments!

I should've never mention ANYTHING about DBZ in his presence...this is ridiculous... Last_Saiyan can't be much older than 16...

That's it, I'm done. No more posts from me...but I do thank you all for making my thread so large...lol!

00JOE
Jun 11, 2002, 08:52 AM
.....I hate DBZ.....

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 11:01 AM
Well lookie here, Haterade sparked one of his thought cell. Hehe, I'm glad my discussion brought Haterade back to the living, and reality. Why do I disregard what some people say...simple, as an advance debater, one can see what is important and vital to an argument. You'll take all day arguing over what is not viable. I made my points and acknowledge the ones that you guys have made towards DBZ, but like Kent stressed...they are opinions. John Cable does a good job pretending that opinions can be facts...nice try but as quoted by a Simpson Character in the episode where Lisa plays as Joan Arc..."Just because you keep saying that, doesn't make it so". The key points are this, listen careful because your mind might wonder off again. 1) I asked you to give me your reasons why you hate DBZ (Contrary to most belief, it's diff' from stating that you have to like it). You said it was because of the art, the story didn't follow, took too long for an action to take place, some of you felt the anime was too long and even misquoted the artist whom drew the few of the series. I provided the answers simply by comparing these same rants and applied it to another cartoon...the Simpson. Don't get me wrong, I love the Simpson just as I love DBZ..it's my liking. But no one liked it when I compared the two..why is this...they were the "SAme" reasons given from you guys...just a different cartoon now, but same rants can be applied. Sure enough, they rushed to protect themselves and all of a sudden they don't like what I just did..."Not like their Cartoon of choice"...hmmmm, kinda makes one think. Haterade obvisously you are still drunk or just oblivious, but go back and re-read everything then you'll find that no one is forcing you nor Alielle nor other's in company to like this Anime nor has anyone claim that it is the best Anime. The whole point was that someone bashed DBZ and I asked for their reasons why, I addressed them and for some reason this kept going and going forcing me to repeat myself over and over again...I guess it's only natural when you mix idiots into the mix. Oh and by the way John Cable...Theories are closer to facts then Opinions: Theories can be proven by mathematical terms and rules...Opinions relate like this; A Hobo's opinion can have the same right as a rocket scientists. That's how solid Opinions are. This is what happens when kids skip school.

g0th_gUrL
Jun 11, 2002, 11:26 AM
<peeks>

STILL talking about dbz? gosh.

<changes subject>

Well yesterday i went to gamestop and I noticed one of their movies called "Metropolis." It had this pretty short-haired blonde girl with beautiful eyes. Well, i thought the cover was nice.. but has anyone seen the movie???

Oh yeah, and what the hell is Sakura Diaries (sorry if the title is wrong) about??

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 11:30 AM
Gothie it's up to you. If you're into action then it's not for you, the film has a new art style with really spectaculor visuals. It's set in the future and underneath it's story, to me, it's covers discrimination and other issues. The plot is interesting, I won't spoil it for you. If you like things like a Clockwork Orange, or City of the Lost Children (I think that's what it's called), then it's up your alley. It's not your typical Anime I can tell you that much. If you could, Blockbuster Video has this one, I'd rent it first which is what I did. Hope that helps

g0th_gUrL
Jun 11, 2002, 11:37 AM
Thank yous http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif I was always curious about that one. Does anyone remember when the sci fi channel used to show anime movies every saturday/sunday morning? wonder if they still do that... i'm not up that early anymore.

JohnCable
Jun 11, 2002, 11:37 AM
Have you even seen Clockwork Orange, or did you just read the quick-EZ synopsis on a random movie site?

If you liked Clockwork Orange, it's because it's a story about a sadistic kid who's brainwashed not to hate what he does but just to get sick when he wants to do it (the implication being that you can make someone stop doing something but you might not be able to get them to stop wanting to do it). I don't see what this would have to do with Metropolis, other than "well it sort of takes place in the future, and is stylistic." Then again, you like DBZ and think that every word you hand down to the "stupid DBZ-hating masses" is Almighty Gold. The art of being subtle, by any medium, is lost on you.

ABDUR101
Jun 11, 2002, 11:39 AM
On 2002-06-11 09:26, g0th_gUrL wrote:
Well yesterday i went to gamestop and I noticed one of their movies called "Metropolis." It had this pretty short-haired blonde girl with beautiful eyes. Well, i thought the cover was nice.. but has anyone seen the movie???

I rented it..and honestly, I just turned it the hell off after 20 minutes. I REALLY hated the style in that anime. Cutesy anime characters, jazz music, pfft, reminded me of DISNEY..and I really don't like Disney cartoons. It just had a kiddy feel to it, like, disgustingly cute meets the Jive and Jazz band festival. I'm staying the hell away from it, it was a waste of $5..

You might like it though, it's always worth a try. o_O I mean, just because I almost clawed my eyes out doesn't mean everyone else will. >_>



Oh yeah, and what the hell is Sakura Diaries (sorry if the title is wrong) about??

I've never seen it, sorry :

One moment..I'll go look for info..

ABDUR101
Jun 11, 2002, 11:41 AM
On 2002-06-11 09:37, g0th_gUrL wrote:
Does anyone remember when the sci fi channel used to show anime movies every saturday/sunday morning? wonder if they still do that... i'm not up that early anymore.


Saturday Anime, nope, they stopped that years ago :



On 2002-06-11 09:37, JohnCable wrote:
Then again, you like DBZ and think that every word you hand down to the "stupid DBZ-hating masses" is Almighty Gold. The art of being subtle, by any medium, is lost on you.


Stop flaming, you don't need to drag this shit out, the subject has changed.

g0th_gUrL
Jun 11, 2002, 11:45 AM
Yes the subject has changed!!! GRrrrrrr...

I think i'll give metropolis a try. I like cutesy anime, remember?

I used to watch the anime on sci fi channel, i remember most of the time i thought it was really boring but i still watched it because i liked the style http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 11:50 AM
Wow, this is coming from John Cable, the guy that can't distinguish the difference between Facts and Opinions. He thinks that by using the words: Subjective and Objective then people would think that he's smart or something, what lameness. I've seen the film, and if you read carefull..which you didn't..I mentioned another film also and if you put those two together then you'd get the idea of what kind of a film I'm trying to imply. But of course because you hate all DBZ fans and whatever I say you'd take to the opposite so...here it goes. John Cable, you are intelligent, you are bright, you do not have a crayon stuck in your head.

Larkin
Jun 11, 2002, 12:27 PM
Hey, lookie! haterade was right! Last_saiyan DIDN'T acknowledge anything that I wrote!

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 12:34 PM
Hey Larkin, because it pertains to nothing that has already been said and addressed already!! But I understand that anyone who comes out and insists that what other people like are stupid and what they like are better then...well, that kind of perspective can really bring in the dumbloads by the million. Which it did, you are dumber than Haterade and he stopped...so learn from your slightly smarter comarade. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Alielle
Jun 11, 2002, 02:05 PM
Before us stands a case of VERY DEEP DENIAL.

I think it's funny that Larkin mentioned both the weak AND strong points of Dragonball Z, and Last_Saiyan is still pounding on the keyboard in a whirlwind of fury.

Oh wait, I forgot that what Larkin's points about Dragonball Z is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to the subject (which is Dragonball Z). He must be stupid for talking about Dragonball Z in a Dragonball Z discussion. Especially about the things that make up the show entirely. After all, it's just his way-too-opinionated opinion and entirely invalid, because Last_Saiyan doesn't like it (i.e. denial).

ABDUR101
Jun 11, 2002, 02:13 PM
Damn! Someone piss on this fire before it gets out of hand...again. o_O

..oh look..a seat with pop corn >_>

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 02:32 PM
*Pisses on both Alielle and Larkin to cool them down. Alielle, Larkin didn't bring up any points that supported anything. It's easy for you to say that because it's your side of discussion. Besides, he sure knows alot and watches alot of DBZ from what he's telling. If it's that painful then why did he watch all that time. It's like putting a string around your pecker and continue to twist it until your pecker comes off. No one is forcing you guys to watch what you don't like to watch...you're the ones telling me that what I watch and like is not good. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I'm surprised at how far you are willing to go with the stupidity and efforts of this. Can you still not see what the main arguments was long enough to see the purpose is before you wonder off into areas that makes no progress in your debate. Alielle, your efforts are futile if you haven't seen it already, all it's done was bring in more opiniated idiots. No one forced you to twist your pecker Larkin, you watched all those episodes by yourself so don't get mad at me and as for Alielle, stop protecting and defending the Simpsons and Sailor Moon because you're doing exactly what I'm doing with DBZ and in your case it's very bad. Kinda makes you sound like a hypocrite.

g0th_gUrL
Jun 11, 2002, 03:10 PM
Hmm... isn't it odd how moderators quickly lock any posts that bash them, yet when a thread is obviously redundant and will have no end they kinda slack?

0_o

War_Child
Jun 11, 2002, 03:21 PM
Want good anime?

Vampire Hunter D
Vandread
Initial D
Ah! My Godess
Mars Successor Nadesico
Gene Shaft
Maharomatic
Ghost in the Shell
Devilman
Hellsing
Neon Genises Evangelion
Yu-Yu Hakesho

Now quit complaining http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 03:22 PM
Awe, Gothie for you I'll cease this nonesense. n_n *Locks my own self

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 03:28 PM
Here's my list:

Trigun
Cowboy Bebop
Spriggan
Vampire D and Bloodlust
Ninja Scroll
Princess Mononoke
Street Fighter II: The movie (not the alpha one)
Grappler Baki
Neon Genises Evangelion
Battle Angel

ABDUR101
Jun 11, 2002, 03:32 PM
On 2002-06-11 13:21, War_Child wrote:
Vampire Hunter D
Vandread
Initial D
Ah! My Godess
Mars Successor Nadesico
Gene Shaft
Maharomatic
Ghost in the Shell
Devilman
Hellsing
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yu-Yu Hakesho

Add to that

Cowboy Bebop
Green Legend Ran
Gall Force
Bubble Gum Crisis 2032(a classic) and 2040
Serial Experiments:Lain
Blue Seed
Love Hina
Bastard
Berzerk
Angel Sanctuary
Princess Mononoke

and thats all your getting for right now because I have a headache :

g0th_gUrL
Jun 11, 2002, 03:32 PM
On 2002-06-11 13:22, Last_Saiyan wrote:
Awe, Gothie for you I'll cease this nonesense. n_n *Locks my own self



<whew> Thank you!! Didcha throw away the key? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 03:53 PM
swallowed it, <(-_-)> Yoda likes Bubblegum Crisis

Alielle
Jun 11, 2002, 05:27 PM
Okay, Saiyan... here's what I think is going on. You think that I'm "victimizing myself" for the reason that earlier I called you a jerk and I used the "elementary school bullie" comparison. My reasoning for this is not unfounded. There were many times that you unprovokedly insulted my intelligence for simply stating my opinion. You can't deny this; I have proof. THIS is what I was mainly objecting to, and why I kept writing. (The other reason being that you seemed to consistently misunderstand what I was trying to say.)

Secondly, I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, that DBZ "sucks". I've simply stated the reasons that I dislike the show. You have responded in turn by telling me that "The Simpsons" is comparable to DBZ and the same arguments apply. However, "The Simpsons" is in fact completely different from DBZ. The only thing they have in common is that they are animated. You can't apply the arguments I had for disliking DBZ to "The Simpsons." Or "Sailor Moon" for that matter. So in an effort to better educate you as to what I've been saying all along, I'm going to rephrase this in a way you might better understand.

1. DBZ is too long/redundant.

-You mentioned "The Simpsons" is very long. "The Simpsons" is a sitcom, not an episodic action cartoon. The story is not meant to be long-running as in DBZ. The stories for every episode are different. This is why "The Simpsons" has gone on so long. Humor drives the series, not action.

-"Sailor Moon" is not 400+ episodes long. Also, it's possible to skip the "filler" episodes and get the gist of a series in a few hours for each season. In DBZ, this is not possible, because all the episodes run into each other.

-"Sailor Moon" episodes can be enjoyed individually, as opposed to having had to see the previous episodes as in DBZ. The longest "To be continued" parts are merely two episodes long.

-You told me to watch the movies. I did watch one (wasn't really paying attention while watching it, however). I might like them; I might not.

HOWEVER, I am not addressing the movies at all in this discussion. DBZ movies and the DBZ show are totally different in structure. What I am criticising is the structure of the TV show, and why it doesn't appeal to me.

2. The art is ugly (i.e. not my taste).

-You argued back about repetitiveness, which I didn't even mention.

-You mentioned that "The Simpsons" art is crude. Yes, it is, but no one watches "The Simpsons" for the art. In an ACTION cartoon, the animation is pretty important, though, and I don't want to look at bulgy dudes with similar bodies and faces fighting all the time.

-I did not misquote Akira Toriyama. He has stated before that DBZ is too long and redundant. He meant to end DBZ at the end of the Freiza saga, if I recall correctly.

3. The plot is ridiculous. (Larkin mentioned many inconsistancies as well.)

-Yes, there are many anime that have ridiculous plots. But the EXECUTION of said plots makes or breaks the show. For the above reasons of being slow and redundant, I disliked the EXECUTION of DBZ's ridiculous plot.

-You argued that we'd be without "chick mud wrestling" if plot was extremely important. Well, plot may not be important for "sports", but it IS important for long-running anime series.

I hope this helps you understand what I've been saying.

I'd like to add, finally, that no one can ever objectively prove that a show is good or bad. It is all opinions, and of course it is "opinionated." But if these opinions are based in fact, it becomes extremely difficult to simply ignore them without making yourself look like a fool.

Oh yeah, and I love Dragon Ball. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Little Goku is cute.

Alielle
Jun 11, 2002, 06:02 PM
Here's some stuff to add to the list of good anime...

Unico!!
Aim for the Top: Gunbuster (The first one I saw that I was aware was anime. I'm a little biased, but who can argue against mechs, aliens, armageddon, and cute girls?)
Neon Genesis Evangelion (This needs to be mentioned, like, a lot)
KareKano (Yes, I am a Gainax fan)
Otaku No Video
Macross Plus
Dragon Half
Elf Princess Rane
Excel Saga O_O
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Battle Angel (the comic is especially good as well)
Trigun
Escaflowne

Hmm...

...

Yeah, I've probably forgotten a few.

ABDUR101
Jun 11, 2002, 06:03 PM
*reads above quote*
..now THAT is how you get decisive in an arguement XD

Last-Saiyan, be glad she took the time to do that man. Most people would just keep flaming you hehe.

*looks around*
OMG! I'm still here!

ABDUR101
Jun 11, 2002, 06:20 PM
On 2002-06-11 16:02, Alielle wrote:
Neon Genesis Evangelion (This needs to be mentioned, like, a lot)


I agree, this needs to be recognized damnit. I love controversial anime!

..there we go, everyone list controversial anime!

Angel Sanctuary
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Serial Experiments:Lain
Hakkenden

OK, I hope everyone understands what controversial means. o_O

*takes note to order Hakkenden DVD boxset*

When I get back tonight, I expect a nice list of controversial anime to look for o_O

And no damn spoilers or I'll have your genitals in a salad shooter!

...Shank You.

Last_Saiyan
Jun 11, 2002, 06:39 PM
I like that excertation, Alielle I didn't mean to insult you but before you came some people said alot of foolish things. There were about 3 or 4 and what I said was geared toward them and then when you came into the mix, I had to address everyone as a whole so don't think that many of the intentions were towards you. But let me clarify this, just because the Simpsons and DBZ are in different genres, that does not mean that they cannot be compared with the same forms. Because in all fairness, what plagues one cartoon may not affect someone and then it may affect someone else so that argument can easily be tossed out the window as "personal" preferences. That's the point that I wanted to bring up. I understand where you're coming from when you said that the Simpsons were a sitcom format and that it's okay for it to continue on. I still don't see why that if the episodes in DBZ should've ended when Frieza dies but more were made then "anyone" would be forced to watch any episodes after that. If you wanted to then good, if not then it's no reason simply because the Producers wanted to give the fans an encore..to use this against the series. This has no value whatsoever against the series unless it's a form of law that forces you to watch it or else die..then you can hate it for that just like you would hate brocoli because your parents forced you to eat it. As for the plot, yes it's more confusing than a vcr being operated by a blind person. There's virtually no tie ins and the only thing going for them is the action. The art may not appeal to everyone but then again that's what style is. It's unique and depends on your liking. Back to the purpose, it's just an animation that's action orientated, just like Pro Wrestling. Not all the characters are nice looking and not all the story links to eachother, a bad guy can be a good guy one day and vice-versa. It's a form that's sole purpose is to entertain and it does well despite it's many flaws. That explains why it has the power to run this long and carry all those episodes. You think a series can run just because people felt like it? It takes money and it needs to generate money, which it did. The formula is not full proof and the audiences vary but it must have flourished by doing something that's good. I doubt that it made it to 400 plus episode because of all the negative things that you all said. In conclusion, it's not for everyone...just as there are few who actually don't like Wrestlemania and think that it's dumb...but think about this, DBZ was not created to win any Oscars, it wasn't created to make you laugh (that's what the simpsons are for and we mustn't rely on the simpsons to produce action scenes because that's not what it's for), it is created primarily to entertain an audience who's into action but in their efforts to create a foundation of longevity they had to resort to alot of dirty tricks and undertaking...but they still delivered to those not having the time to watch every episodes and produced movie formats. This whole thing started not by saying that this Anime was the best in the universe (See my list of Anime's) but to educate that you shouldn't bash what you don't completely understand. Alielle, I swear, you have to see Limp Cookie at http://www.newgrounds.com

Alielle
Jun 11, 2002, 08:42 PM
I forgot to add Cutey Honey to that list.

Abdur, you want controversial anime? You should check out my favorite series, Cool Devic... ah, I mean, the last season of Sailor Moon. Cross-dressing, gender-bending, and lesbians! And also Utena for some of the same reasons. YAY INCEST!

Last_Saiyan, I'm glad we can finally understand each other. I'm still a bit sore about the insults, but we all make mistakes. Just, ah... when you're arguing with someone, try not to call them monkeys (et al). It'll only elongate the argument and get people off track.

'kay?


Edit: More fething typos >_<


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alielle on 2002-06-11 18:43 ]</font>

Larkin
Jun 11, 2002, 09:05 PM
Okay, that's all fine and dandy, but I don't appreciate being called stupid for pointing out why someone would dislike DBZ.

"So far no one has a sufficient reason or one that makes any real sense about why DBZ. So far, all the expressions were vague and opinionated." -Last_Saiyan (page 3)

Lo and behold, I do provide a few examples and all Last_Saiyan has to say is that they don't pertain to anything and that by pressing my opinions onto others I'm a fool.

Murr.

And in keeping with the present topic of choice anime, umm... I like the animated cut scenes from Burning Rangers and Dragon Force.

>_>

<_<

...

Kirby Dance!! <(-'.'-<) (>-'.'-)> <(-'v'-)>

ABDUR101
Jun 12, 2002, 06:32 AM
On 2002-06-11 18:42, Alielle wrote:
I forgot to add Cutey Honey to that list.

*adds to list of anime to see*



Abdur, you want controversial anime? You should check out my favorite series, Cool Devic... ah, I mean, the last season of Sailor Moon. Cross-dressing, gender-bending, and lesbians! And also Utena for some of the same reasons. YAY INCEST!

haha, ok, hentai fiend I see, CD, got you. Last Season of Sailormoon, hmmm...have to look into that too, as well as Utena.

Angel Sanctuary has incest, as well as an angel revolting against God.

Hakkenden has beast-love! haha



Last_Saiyan, I'm glad we can finally understand each other. I'm still a bit sore about the insults, but we all make mistakes. Just, ah... when you're arguing with someone, try not to call them monkeys (et al). It'll only elongate the argument and get people off track.

'kay?

phew, glad thats ov..*bitch slaps Larkin* its in the past damnit! Stop bringing it up, just let it go. Breathe in, breathe out...goooood.

*shakes fist*
Why you gotta make me hit you baby?!

FinalMasterM
Jun 12, 2002, 06:42 AM
It would do the forums a world of good if you'd just shut up about DBZ already.

*goes back to disposing of his anger*

Alielle
Jun 12, 2002, 10:50 PM
On 2002-06-12 04:32, ABDUR101 wrote:


On 2002-06-11 18:42, Alielle wrote:
I forgot to add Cutey Honey to that list.

*adds to list of anime to see*

HONEY FLASH!!! She's the girl with the cute little ass! (Whyyyy did they change that line in the English version of the opening song? ;_;) Between panty shots and nudie transformation scenes, she says things like, "Women are strong!" and proceeds to punch stupid guys in the mouf. I love it!!



haha, ok, hentai fiend I see, CD, got you. Last Season of Sailormoon, hmmm...have to look into that too, as well as Utena.

Bleh, I knew you'd get me there!! So I own one volume, so what?! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (Need DVD boxset.)

On second thought, by the last season of Sailor Moon, nothing's really shocking anymore. The entire series had its share of "controversial" stuff, like Zoisite, Fish Eye (yay!!), Haruka and Michiru, Chibiusa's incestuous crush on her own father, all BEFORE the Sailor Starlights. And no one really bats an eyelash, either.


Angel Sanctuary has incest, as well as an angel revolting against God.
And atrocious dubbing! Actually, I really liked that show. It would make a great series if they actually decided to continue it. I notice that kind of thing happens a lot to good shows, though.


Hakkenden has beast-love! haha

Like furry porn? O_O;;;;;!!1




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alielle on 2002-06-12 20:52 ]</font>

ABDUR101
Jun 12, 2002, 11:07 PM
On 2002-06-12 20:50, Alielle wrote:
HONEY FLASH!!! She's the girl with the cute little ass! (Whyyyy did they change that line in the English version of the opening song? ;_;) Between panty shots and nudie transformation scenes, she says things like, "Women are strong!" and proceeds to punch stupid guys in the mouf. I love it!!

Got me interested haha. Sounds funny actually. XD



Bleh, I knew you'd get me there!! So I own one volume, so what?! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (Need DVD boxset.)

..oh, when I get my own credit card..ooooo... of course I'd get you there! I'm downloading Magical Twilight too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Thats right, I can't afford hentai, so I download mine...atleast until I have a private credit card so family members can't trace it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



On second thought, by the last season of Sailor Moon, nothing's really shocking anymore. The entire series had its share of "controversial" stuff, like Zoisite, Fish Eye (yay!!), Haruka and Michiru, Chibiusa's incestuous crush on her own father, all BEFORE the Sailor Starlights. And no one really bats an eyelash, either.

haha, well good, it will be quick and semi-painless eh? Thats goooood.




And atrocious dubbing! Actually, I really liked that show. It would make a great series if they actually decided to continue it. I notice that kind of thing happens a lot to good shows, though.

Actually, I did'nt mind the dubbing, although I understood it a helluva lot better after I saw it subbed. The damn dubbers fubar'd some lines and it just sounded alittle confusing, idiots :

I really like Angel Sanctuary though, but it pisses me off they only did three episodes, because they even show a preview of the 4th :



Like furry porn? O_O;;;;;!!1

noooo, as in..beast love...you know..dog..dog meets girl, dog kills warlord for girls hand in marriage, dog and girl consumate marriage but are both killed before the pups can be born, and then the pups are reincarnated as warriors, who vanquish evil in the land and avenge their parents death.

Damn, just go here Hakkenden (http://www.animenation.com/11486.html)

It will most likely be the next boxset I buy. And I did'nt spoil a damn thing, thats the introduction from that site. o_O

Alielle
Jun 12, 2002, 11:19 PM
On 2002-06-12 21:07, ABDUR101 wrote:

..oh, when I get my own credit card..ooooo... of course I'd get you there! I'm downloading Magical Twilight too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Thats right, I can't afford hentai, so I download mine...atleast until I have a private credit card so family members can't trace it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Hey, I hear you... actually, I saw a few more of those Cool Devices episodes by said illegal methods, and honestly, they scare me. A LOT. I think I will stick to F^3 or something. (F^3 is really funny.)

I'm not into those tentacle things, either, so it kind of limits the options.


Actually, I did'nt mind the dubbing, although I understood it a helluva lot better after I saw it subbed. The damn dubbers fubar'd some lines and it just sounded alittle confusing, idiots :


The American voice actors sounded weird. It's like they were saying the lines with weird inflections or something. At least if they do that in the Japanese version, I can't really tell. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


I really like Angel Sanctuary though, but it pisses me off they only did three episodes, because they even show a preview of the 4th :

As for there being only 3 episodes, maybe someone will at least bring the manga over. From what I heard, the anime only barely covers the introduction.


noooo, as in..beast love...you know..dog..dog meets girl, dog kills warlord for girls hand in marriage, dog and girl consumate marriage but are both killed before the pups can be born, and then the pups are reincarnated as warriors, who vanquish evil in the land and avenge their parents death.

I'm going to have weird dreams tonight. O_O

Edit: Bwahhh, I need sleep.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alielle on 2002-06-12 21:20 ]</font>

ABDUR101
Jun 12, 2002, 11:54 PM
On 2002-06-12 21:19, Alielle wrote:
Hey, I hear you... actually, I saw a few more of those Cool Devices episodes by said illegal methods, and honestly, they scare me. A LOT. I think I will stick to F^3 or something. (F^3 is really funny.)

LIAR!! ...F^3? Explain?



I'm not into those tentacle things, either, so it kind of limits the options.

Same here actually, too easy, pfft
..no..wait..you're just picky!



The American voice actors sounded weird. It's like they were saying the lines with weird inflections or something. At least if they do that in the Japanese version, I can't really tell. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah, they just did'nt make it sound right. Some things were voiced too much, making it sound important, when it wasn't. Some things were just said so weird, that you weren't sure what it meant. Although I do like the english voice actors in it better than the dubbed, I understood the dubbed alot better :




As for there being only 3 episodes, maybe someone will at least bring the manga over. From what I heard, the anime only barely covers the introduction.

I've been wondering about the manga. If only I understood japanese..I tell you. :




I'm going to have weird dreams tonight. O_O
Edit: Bwahhh, I need sleep.

hehe, have fuuuun XD

I'll just..pull a 24+ hour shift and then go unconcious o_O;

There's an anime I wanted to post about...but I'll be damned, I've forgotten it already.

OOOO, Gall Force hehe. ...damn..that was only one of many I wanted to post about.

oh, here's another. Night Walker:The Midnight Detective. I rather like that two DVD anime.

Blood:The Last Vampire...its ok..but too short for my taste, and you don't get much along the lines of "who what why and where". Which is annoying, I'd of rather not watched it than get a headache from trying to think everything over :

Kent
Jun 13, 2002, 03:22 AM
Outlaw Star forever!!

Bah... I'm still missing two DVDs.

I'd get more anime DVDs if I could afford them (OMG WTF?! There's a local store that sells boxed sets!)...

It's hard to find money for anime when you're trying to get a new motherboard and processor for your computer, dammit! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

ABDUR101
Jun 13, 2002, 10:34 AM
On 2002-06-13 01:22, Kent wrote:
It's hard to find money for anime when you're trying to get a new motherboard and processor for your computer, dammit! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


It's called priorities. What's more important, anime, or having a faster computer?

Just save up and stop being a whore, because you'll never be as good as me! XD

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ABDUR101 on 2002-06-13 08:35 ]</font>

Deathscythealpha
Jun 13, 2002, 04:21 PM
On 2002-06-12 21:54, ABDUR101 wrote:
Blood:The Last Vampire...its ok..but too short for my taste, and you don't get much along the lines of "who what why and where". Which is annoying, I'd of rather not watched it than get a headache from trying to think everything over :


Ive seen that. Cool art style in it, but way to short. After she got the last one you really wanted that chick to go kill something else, or rebel against the guys giving her orders. And kill them.

Well, 2 weeks before i go buy Macross plus then.

Alielle
Jun 13, 2002, 05:38 PM
On 2002-06-12 21:54, ABDUR101 wrote:

LIAR!! ...F^3? Explain?
Am not!! F(tiny 3)... "F Cubed". "Frantic, Frustrated, and Female." In other words, lesbians. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif



[Regarding the tentacle issue,] same here actually, too easy, pfft
..no..wait..you're just picky!

Maybe... but then again, slimy space-phalluses don't really get the blood boiling here...



Although I do like the english voice actors in it better than the dubbed, I understood the dubbed alot better :

Murrappy... O_o



I've been wondering about the manga. If only I understood japanese..I tell you. :
I heard it has lots of yaoi, so you would like it I think. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

There's an anime I wanted to post about...but I'll be damned, I've forgotten it already.

OOOO, Gall Force hehe. ...damn..that was only one of many I wanted to post about.
I don't remember ANY of that, even though I saw it several times. Weird. Even weirder: I saw the SD parody before I saw the actual show. I was a messed-up kid.

Excel Saga's coming in the mail soon!

ABDUR101
Jun 13, 2002, 10:04 PM
On 2002-06-13 15:38, Alielle wrote:
Am not!! F(tiny 3)... "F Cubed". "Frantic, Frustrated, and Female." In other words, lesbians. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Eh, that doesn't always work for me, but I guess I can take a look :

...HAHA, ah, reading that line again is pretty damn funny.



Maybe... but then again, slimy space-phalluses don't really get the blood boiling here...

...picky




Murrappy... O_o

*insert wtf remark here*
o_O




I heard it has lots of yaoi, so you would like it I think. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah, thats kind of why I liked the anime, I had my expectations so high for Katan and Rosiel :

...on a side note, my god, am I actually known for my..taste..in hentai? o_O;
I did'nt think anyone paid attention XD



OOOO, Gall Force hehe. ...damn..that was only one of many I wanted to post about.
I don't remember ANY of that, even though I saw it several times. Weird. Even weirder: I saw the SD parody before I saw the actual show. I was a messed-up kid.
[/quote]
Gall Force, I had to look that up recently. I think after a month of money making, I'm going to just let loose(pfft) and buy alot of the old anime I remember. Gall Force, Night Walker, Green Legend Ran, so many I remember from years past. :



Excel Saga's coming in the mail soon!

haha, nice. Let me know how it is. My DVD boxset of BlueSeed should arrive within 5-6 days, half that if they ship it before it's release like they did my Neon Genesis Evangelion boxset. That got to me 5 days before it's street release date http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh, here's another anime from fond years ago. Anyone remember Lily C.A.T. ? I haven't been able to find it on DVD though, so if anyone else has, let me know yeah?

Sojo
Jun 14, 2002, 07:30 PM
Why the hell does anyone download Hentai or sign up for those member-only sites??

It's utterly pointless! Why bother?!

There are about a million places you can get it absolutely free, so why pay for it?! I know at least 3 that have endless links to others like them...

Spy
Jan 26, 2003, 02:03 AM
If I wanted smut I'd just watch regular american TV, thank you very much.

Ian D
Jan 26, 2003, 02:09 AM
Why must you do this...

Spy
Jan 26, 2003, 02:33 AM
On 2003-01-25 23:09, Ian D wrote:
Why must you do this...



I am Spy. I can do anything I want.

Ian D
Jan 26, 2003, 02:34 AM
Sorry, I forgot.

RuneLateralus
Jan 26, 2003, 02:39 AM
And old topic that was pointlessly brought back to life...

*sigh*

And I was hoping for more hentai discussions...