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Sagasu
Aug 11, 2004, 05:01 PM
Sagasu Comes to an End?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I must bow off stage to make a temorary retreat from the world of fan-fictions.

I have just so realized a quite fatal flaw in my capabilities, and this has infected my fictions to the highest degree. If you take a look at my work you can figure out what I am talking about (No Azbats, this by no means is of your doing, what I have decided has little to do with you, or any of the readers here.)

But before I leave to refine my style of writing, I would like to have a word with the rest of you.

I am a wild, unpredictable, and unstable writer. How? I do little, to no planning whatsoever. When I start writing, I have no idea what will come out at the end. This goes for my previous fictions, and my current one alike. I sit down to write, with the vaguest idea in my mind of what happens, and go on accordance to where my whim and wit takes me. How things turn out, are greatly influenced by how I am feeling at the time in such passive writing. This, in itself, is crude and terrible. When you want to write, you want to create. Something new, something never seen before, such a something can never truly be about you, or how you feel. For you are merely copying your emotions, your life, and pasting it in some new world. Is this.. truly creation? But more importantly, Is this what I'm satisfied with? No.. Even now I am writing as it comes, so I ramble, repeat, and become redundant. But somehow I manage to build something, however hastily, and its there. This skill, is what I wish to refine, I wish to be able to create upon instinct, instead of planned out and calculated thought processes. Its an interesting style, and right now I'm expirimenting to the full with it.




For those who wish to write, are writing, and have written.


Now what is it I have to say to you all? I would like to give a few pointers to all writers here. Not about what your write, what you put into it, characterization or details, we should know just how we plan to do what it is we have in mind.

What is it you feel when writing? What is the motivation? Wanting to create something unique? Like no other? Don't we all? Do you have a clear mental picture of what you are describing? Or are you simply winging your way through it? I don't want you to answer me, I want you to answer yourself. The human brain is a wonderful tool, and there is no limit to how it can be put to use. When you truly create, your not working for yourself, or the reader, you simply relish the fact that this is new, this is extrodinaly, and it, in itself, becomes real. Real to the writer, real to the reader, no matter the fact that it is just a jumble of words, its is real in your mind. Now how does it become real? It becomes real when it is the living embodiment of exactly the picture you carry inside of your head. Too many travel without this picture, too many fail to create. I am amongst them, writing with no clear visualization of my creation.

This falls over everything. The characters you create must be people, with a past, with a future, with hopes and failures; So that they are truly real on must invest the time, and care of creating the individual spirit, that makes any one story so fascinating. Most, attempt to have just a few such real people, and yet not even the writers themselves can answer questions asked without having to make something off from the top of their head. Most important about the people in your fictions is how they behave, if you wish to be lazy, just knowing exactly how someone would react in any given situation, dramatic or not, can make anything seem life like.

Time, from dawn till dusk you must be aware. Many a time, myself included, have the timelines been destroyed due to careless ness. Past, present, and future, when you sit, or lie, or stand, the writer msut be aware of the time and place of the situation, and the situation beyond. This will also help things become real.

Inegnuity. Humans have no lack of it. When someone enters your thread, and starts to read your story, they must fall into your world. Histories, characters, creatures, weather and temperament effects, it all must be created by the writer, and no other. This counts even if you are writing in a wolrd you did not create, you must put you view of the world as you see it, or you will fail to create the desired effect. Any writing contains this, for the writer must place himself in this world as the cool, casual observer, that understands every moment in time as it progresses.

Reactions. Feel what they feel, breathe what they breath, see what they see. After this you must change it all, change how you feel, breath, see, change it based upon the fact that you are someone else. Only after this can you have something truly react the way it would. Such a task requires quite an imagination, so Its quite a good excercise for the mind.

The rest you must imagine for yourself, knowing above, what would I say about what has not been said? IF you can answer all the questions left unanswered then you truly have mastered the art of writing.




For those who wish to read, are reading, and have read.


If you have read the above, you know how to read. And I don't mean recognize the words and put them into a understandable pattern. To read is to react, to place yourself alongside the man walking on the street in the middle of may, to become the one watching the dragon spurt fire into the air. You cannot 'read' something that is real, you must experience it. The writer and the reader must travel down the same path, the only variable being that they are two different individuals and will react somewhat differently.

And if you have experienced the story, the writers world, please get off your ass and make a reply. Though to truly creat and make something real, the writer can find enjoyment in that alone, but just like an amusement park, much more fun with other people that have ridden the ride you have created, no?

This is my opinion on the matter, and I hope for those who wish to read and write to take these points into consideration.

InfernoNR7
Aug 11, 2004, 05:04 PM
... You started a sentence with and.

Lol, just givin ya a hard time http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif.


Well, I hope you refine that style, for it is my personal choice (obviously). I feel that this is creative writing in its true essence.

Azbats
Aug 11, 2004, 05:22 PM
Hmm... I have to say i'm very disappointed by your decision to quit the pages of FanFic, albeit in a temporary capacity.

Piece of art like writing don't have to be planned to the n'th degree. Sometime a little basic planning is necessary other times it's good to write from the hip and see what develops. Most of the time it comes from a single word be it:
love/passion/sex/money/violence/religion/justice/death

Your piece Sovereign Song is an excellent piece about the darker side of human nature and what it is capable of. You took you idea and it sent you down this passage that you have now written 5 chapters.

You can never "plan" ideas or emotion, it just happens.

I should know it can be very depressing to put a lot of effort into something to have people read and not pass comment. It doesn't inspire you to continue because you can't help but feel there is an ignorance there which good be avoided by typing a few simple words. But that's human nature and that's just PEOPLE.

We PM each other a lot and we have talked at great lengths about your work. All I can really add to my comments is, "I want to see more" because for a young lad you've hot a heck of a tallent that needs to be shared with all that read!

take a break, you written a very heavy piece of literature. But get your ass back to the chair soon mister... that's an ORDER!

Deathscythealpha
Aug 11, 2004, 05:51 PM
Well, i hope you have some luck with your writing in the future. You say that you never planned much (or so i understand), but that sometimes isnt a bad thing.

Some of my fan fics storylines just fall into place as im walking down the streets. I get the guidelines done, i know all the major scenes, all i need to do is flesh it out. This is were some of the unplanned stuff shines. Ive had some completely unplanned stuff be liked by my readers, and its all just based of ideas that suddenly come to me as im at the keyboard. I was also reading an article about the author who wrote 'Get Shorty' (i think that was the novel) and he says he never planned, he made the characters and let them solve there own way throught the story as he wrote.

And you said about people taking experiances from their real life's and translating it into their fictional worlds. No, at times its not creative, but it can flesh a character out. Its hard to write about emotions or feelings that you dont know or have any experiance with, so a little knowledge can really help bring things to life.

Im lucky that most people (espicially Boc, props to him!) reply to my posts and really help me get the next sections out, even if im sometimes really late.

(Ignore any bad spelling on my part in this post, i seem to be really off tonight with that)

KaFKa
Aug 11, 2004, 06:48 PM
i see. if thats your choice, there isnt much any of us can do to change it.

i just hope you manage to get yourself back together before too long. i can't carry the whole of fanworks by myself, ya know! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Azbats
Aug 11, 2004, 06:54 PM
On 2004-08-11 16:48, KaFKa wrote:
i see. if thats your choice, there isnt much any of us can do to change it.

i just hope you manage to get yourself back together before too long. i can't carry the whole of fanworks by myself, ya know! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



If more people started commenting and giving the writers here some support then maybe you wouldn't have to becausae they wouldn't stop writting!!!

Sagasu
Aug 11, 2004, 07:12 PM
Thats why most of the up and coming writers drop out, they are not satisfied with themselves and expect others to appease them http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

That is unless, your writing to please the readers, which is hard as hell to do http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

My current/aborted project had many more views and replies than many finished works! But since I don't write to please the readers whim,(unless I'm making money) what they say helps me, but does not truly have the swuay most would think.

If you truly love to write, and are not in it for fame, you can write full length pieces just for the sake of doing so. I've done this a few times, though not as often as I really should. But the thing is many are not all that serious about it, so theres no talking sense to one who doesn't care http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

Kadou
Aug 11, 2004, 08:32 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, this thread might just help me put together the fic I'd been thinking about for the past 5 months. I don't know if I meantioned htis on the other board, but the main reason I never started is because I personally believe my writing style is shit, being overly aloof, my characters lacking in depth of personality and history, and my concentration drawn too much to detail of physical conditions. I've been meaning to, using your phrasing, "refine" this, but I never had enough confidence to start working on it in the first place.

Also, and I'll admit I hate to say this too, though I only read a chapter or two of your fic, I immediately realized it was infinitely better than anything I could produce at my both then and this current state of mind.

And as stupid as it might sound, these things should probably mean a lot coming from me of all people. =/

Sagasu
Aug 11, 2004, 08:43 PM
On 2004-08-11 18:32, Kadou wrote:
As much as I hate to admit it, this thread might just help me put together the fic I'd been thinking about for the past 5 months. I don't know if I meantioned htis on the other board, but the main reason I never started is because I personally believe my writing style is shit, being overly aloof, my characters lacking in depth of personality and history, and my concentration drawn too much to detail of physical conditions. I've been meaning to, using your phrasing, "refine" this, but I never had enough confidence to start working on it in the first place.

Also, and I'll admit I hate to say this too, though I only read a chapter or two of your fic, I immediately realized it was infinitely better than anything I could produce at my both then and this current state of mind.

And as stupid as it might sound, these things should probably mean a lot coming from me of all people. =/



Hah! Don't lie to yourself. My ficcie is by no means better than the potential you carry. You of all people should know this, and know the only thing that really holds you back is the time invested in such projects.

Even a veiled positive if a gift, coming from you in the context your referring to http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif But whatever you do, and however you do it, just writing, just the fact that your writing, will seriously improve your skills. The difference forme being I need to get into the right, as you put it, state of mind before truly becoming more comitted to my writings. KNow that at least I'll be there if you follow through with you ideas and put them up for marring http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

-Z
Aug 11, 2004, 09:08 PM
though i regret to be informed of your leave, i respect your decision. you earned a long vacation sagasu. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

your word to the wise should be something of sticky value, but thats just my opinion http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

mr_rubbish
Aug 12, 2004, 12:33 PM
Hmmm.... Preaching to us again Saru? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Expect me to harass you nearly continously about this...

Sagasu
Aug 12, 2004, 12:35 PM
On 2004-08-12 10:33, mr_rubbish wrote:
Hmmm.... Preaching to us again Saru? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Expect me to harass you nearly continously about this...



*cleans the grime out of Immers' ears*

Perhaps you'll listen this time 'round.

Zzzzzz
Aug 12, 2004, 11:45 PM
Well, I am very, very angry that you cancelled Sorvyn's Song, but, hey, it's your choice, and I think you should at least take a nice break.


Damn it!

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cry.gif

Skett
Aug 13, 2004, 08:52 AM
This is very dissapointing news as I am a fan of your work. Sure, sometimes I forget to read it or late but I have always been commenting and being one of your biggest supporters.

Now for what I think about your stories. I have read at least a dozen published novels in my life and your stories are the only one on PSOW that I could compare to those novels. The detail, the characters, the plot, everything blows away, with at least one exception, everything else I have read on this site.

I hope you return soon because your stories were the only reason that I go to fanstuff section anymore. Yosh...

WraithVerge
Aug 13, 2004, 11:54 AM
I am a wild, unpredictable, and unstable writer. How? I do little, to no planning whatsoever. When I start writing, I have no idea what will come out at the end. This goes for my previous fictions, and my current one alike. I sit down to write, with the vaguest idea in my mind of what happens, and go on accordance to where my whim and wit takes me. How things turn out, are greatly influenced by how I am feeling at the time in such passive writing.

And that, my friend, is how things are. As with most everything else, no two writers are alike whether it be the material they write about or how they write it. The way you've written SS so far has actually made it very interesting to read. As you have said, your emotions dictate how the story progresses. For SS, this is ok. For the purpose of consistancy (if you ever do choose to continue SS), I'd say keep writing like you have been for a sudden change it how you write it will most likely stick out like a sore thumb.


Well, i hope you have some luck with your writing in the future. You say that you never planned much (or so i understand), but that sometimes isnt a bad thing.

Definately! Everything here is true. It would get boring if you always planned every story out to the last detail. Like you said yourself Sagasu, you need to place yourself with the characters. What better way to do it than by running next to the hero(es)'s side with no idea what is going on or what will happen in the future? This is not something you should do ALL the time, but it is a break from the norm. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



I don't necessarily see how you've written SS so far as a flaw, but to continuously write like this for other novels can and will become repetitive. Obviously, it's always good to spice things up with something new.

Before I ramble on too much so that not even I understand what I wrote, I must say I've enjoyed reading your stories and co-writing group-fics with you. I bet Omi could beat any of your other characters http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Don't leave us forever! We love you, mang!

Sagasu
Aug 13, 2004, 12:19 PM
Sigh..

First of all, I would like to point out I did not truly make this thread to sap up attention or place guilt upon anybody. I just wanted to explain my descision, and give out a few words to all the vet and up and coming writers out there.

So I wish we would focus on the latter point more.

Refreshing yes, easy? No. And it becomes painfully apparent when your writing something that is more or less a novel. Short chapters in short fictions are easy to pass by unscathed, but just try lengthier pieces and you'll immediatley see the difference in both your writing, and yourself. I actually encourage all you writers to aim for length, it is much more challenging, and provides much more profit than you would think. Despite the limited attentionspan of web surfers, take a look at the fictions around. Looks at your fictions, chapters anywhere from 1-4 pages long? Longer? If you need proof that length does provide, just glance by SS (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=82489&forum=12&60) and you can see the difference. Don't even read it, just look at the length, and then look at the replies. No shortage of em, right? Not only does it challenge the writer, it also helps them improve often weak areas, such as characterization and detail.

I would like to thank you for your continued support. But mor importantly, I beg of you to spread that support to others. Skett, perhaps others work is not quite the same, or of the same potency. But I know I never started off like this, I never started off being able to write, think, or act like this. I feel that there is so much to learn, and to experience in this wolrd and the next, that its crucial that we find other ways to explore one anothers mind. The reader, oh the reader by far has the hardest time of all. If a writer fails to explain something in a sensible manner, its up to the reader to point things out so it can be patched up. Weaknesses, strengths, these are all magnified by those of you who kindly put your time into helping someone cultivate the barren world most writers start off with.

Without readers, fictions will inevitably die out. And without the writers, don't you think nothing but art around here would be somehat dull? There is no limit to what we can do, there is no limit to what we can learn. But we'll need to lean upon one another untill each of us find our feet again, and not leave anyone behind. I myself will try to spread support to the readers and writers of psow alike, but I'm no messiah, my one loaf of bread wont feed you all.

I guess we'll see what you all have to say.

BOC
Aug 14, 2004, 09:10 AM
Jesus H Christ!!

i go 4 days without logging on here only to come back to this?!? if my week couldn't get any shittier. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

dude i understand this is only a temporary break, lord knows that most of u writing guys need breaks sometimes to relax the grey matter and let ideas collect, but does this mean that SS shall not be continued?

you complain about ur own writing style, but i think it works!! you say your wild and unpredicatble, you do no planning, but it is interesting and different. as Azbats said it doesn't need to be planned to the n'th degree man. if too much planning it involved it will read more like a encyclopedia. hell, when tolkein sat down to write the lord of the rings he had absolutely nothing planned out. and look how that turned out!

i love ur work, alongside the likes of deathscythe's do hucasts series, meiras recollection series and mr rubbish's various shorts its one of my favourite fics of this year so far. the story is dark, the characters feel real and generally overall it rocks!!

i have seen too many good fics die out on this forum already because the writers felt like they were receiving little or no support. my fingers are crossed that when you return that you will endevour to finish SS. and when/if you do, you can be sure that i'll be reading it and posting my usual praise, cause im sure it will be great!!

enjoy your break man, you have earned it and thats a fact.

we await your return....

PEACE!!!

Sord
Aug 14, 2004, 09:59 AM
Well, I will say that I've never bothered to read your fic, but then again I hardly read any others, not even the apraised Recollection Saga. Infact, the only ones I do read are Ians, Eihwaz (cause if he would have bugged me anymore my head would explode,) and Spike's when he releases his.

Well, I don't know what to say, just chuck my experiances in the bin I guess. I basically start out how you do when writing long fics, no idea whatsoever with the exception of character description. And I don't like it, I never really have liked making long stories. I also maybe get 2-3 appraisals (though I don't care much about this, it has to do with a later point)

Length does not always equal a better story, all my unfinished and probably never will be finished long fics are around 2000 words a chapter (having 3-5 made), while my shorts are maybe half that, and yet the shorts are what I get the most responses on being liked. In my case, I would make more money with a collection of short random stories then I would making some big long one.

RadiantLegend
Aug 17, 2004, 10:20 AM
^_^ maybe i'll work on mine one of these days...my only problem is i never finish them.

Azbats
Aug 17, 2004, 05:34 PM
On 2004-08-14 07:10, BOC wrote:
Jesus H Christ!!

i go 4 days without logging on here only to come back to this?!? if my week couldn't get any shittier. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

dude i understand this is only a temporary break, lord knows that most of u writing guys need breaks sometimes to relax the grey matter and let ideas collect, but does this mean that SS shall not be continued?

you complain about ur own writing style, but i think it works!! you say your wild and unpredicatble, you do no planning, but it is interesting and different. as Azbats said it doesn't need to be planned to the n'th degree man. if too much planning it involved it will read more like a encyclopedia. hell, when tolkein sat down to write the lord of the rings he had absolutely nothing planned out. and look how that turned out!

i love ur work, alongside the likes of deathscythe's do hucasts series, meiras recollection series and mr rubbish's various shorts its one of my favourite fics of this year so far. the story is dark, the characters feel real and generally overall it rocks!!

i have seen too many good fics die out on this forum already because the writers felt like they were receiving little or no support. my fingers are crossed that when you return that you will endevour to finish SS. and when/if you do, you can be sure that i'll be reading it and posting my usual praise, cause im sure it will be great!!

enjoy your break man, you have earned it and thats a fact.

we await your return....

PEACE!!!



I think that is a very insightful answer BOC [and I know how much you support the writers here... although you didn't comment on mine http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif]and you have pointed out what the writers here have all been saying... YOU JUST DON'T GET SUPPORT AT ALL.

I was new to this site, my fic had a decent "look at" rate but poor response, so people were looking at it but not taking the time to pass comment. Even if it was only "I liked it" or "not my thing". I've now pulled my pieces completely from here and posted it on another PSO related site that although has a far, far, far diminished user base has a lot more people that are looking at the work, then commenting.

PSOW = 1 in 15 - 20 people commented

PSO related site = 1 in 5 - 6 people commented. This also includes mods commenting too [just an observation]

That kinda stat makes me wanna continue on their. That's my personal example over.

The FanPic however get a far better response because people can't be bothered to read, simply because they are too lazy.... they want their stimulation "right now". That in itself is sad because there is a huge hardcore following on this site that it here almost all night and yet they don't seem to support people that are trying to do something creative with the PSO genre, yet pass comment on some unbelievably questionable art.

Taking someone like Sagasu is different. He isn't new, he has made a lot of friends here, and he is [seemingly] well respected. Now at 13 years of age this lad writes some ammazing stuff, he really does. Yes it can be loose at times but that's all part of the learning experience and experimenting. Now I purposely but "seemingly" in brackets because if people really did give him the respect that he's due they would at least put something on the end of his piece to say "good", "bad" or "indifferent" ESPECIALLY the hardcore followers of PSOW

I only know him from reading his work on this site and yet I keep a close PM contact with him and encourage and comment on his work in deapth because I know this boys talent needs to be nurtured and blossom.

FanFics [not the forum the fics themselves] will die out because people won't support the writers that are trying to give the member something more and IMHO I can't see past it being more than a matter of laziness [don't start getting your knickers in a twist people it's an opinion]

People like Sagasu deserve more respect. I'm new so what the hell should anyone care about me, especially if that's how they perceive "one of their own"

I now spend more time at the other PSO site purely on the basis that it offers me more a writer and I find the population more friendly, Sagasu puts a lot of time and effort into this site and should get a hell of a lot more back from its members

I know this is a wee bit of a rant. But I class Sagasu as a friend and friends look out for each other... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Sagasu
Aug 17, 2004, 05:55 PM
Thank you Azbats, but as I have said before, this thread should really not be focused on me here. Though as a writer you can draw examples from me, but I did not intend to make a whole big ordeal over that part.

I would like to encourage writers, I would like to help them. I would like my own writing to blossom, and I would like many people to reply.

Don't we all?

Well we can, but most of the time, we wont. I think this is the main point Azbats is trying to get across here. While I may be more or less "in" with the other writers around here, its mainly because I tend to show up in others fictions, though not as frequently as I should ever since my schedule has been screwed over. This in itself, will gain you some respect. It is doubly hard for those who start off around here, and then don't get any replies and die off. As you have, as many have, and as many will.

As Azbats has also mentioned, all the writers, and readers alike, are learning here. Its all a great process, where there is no one teacher. That is what a forum must do to keep itself alive. One cannot simply put their piece down and expect to be instantly recognized and praised. One must give recognition and praise, and most importantly a lesson to learn from, and in turn this can be given back. Its like a wheel, you have to provide force to keep it turning, the more the force, the more momentum, and the longer it will turn and perform its function. Remove the force from this equation, and your stuck were you are.

Perhaps I am singing to the wrong crowd here, but this is how I see the situation. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sagasu on 2004-08-17 16:02 ]</font>

mr_rubbish
Aug 18, 2004, 03:55 AM
On 2004-08-17 15:34, Azbats wrote:
[snip]...and you have pointed out what the writers here have all been saying... YOU JUST DON'T GET SUPPORT AT ALL.

I was new to this site, my fic had a decent "look at" rate but poor response, so people were looking at it but not taking the time to pass comment. Even if it was only "I liked it" or "not my thing". ...[snip]

The FanPic however get a far better response because people can't be bothered to read, simply because they are too lazy.... they want their stimulation "right now". That in itself is sad because there is a huge hardcore following on this site that it here almost all night and yet they don't seem to support people that are trying to do something creative with the PSO genre, yet pass comment on some unbelievably questionable art.

Taking someone like Sagasu is different. He isn't new, he has made a lot of friends here, and he is [seemingly] well respected. Now at 13 years of age this lad writes some ammazing stuff, he really does. Yes it can be loose at times but that's all part of the learning experience and experimenting. Now I purposely but "seemingly" in brackets because if people really did give him the respect that he's due they would at least put something on the end of his piece to say "good", "bad" or "indifferent" ESPECIALLY the hardcore followers of PSOW

[snip]

FanFics [not the forum the fics themselves] will die out because people won't support the writers that are trying to give the member something more and IMHO I can't see past it being more than a matter of laziness [don't start getting your knickers in a twist people it's an opinion]

People like Sagasu deserve more respect. I'm new so what the hell should anyone care about me, especially if that's how they perceive "one of their own"

[snip]



Amazing, I think Azbats is even more ideaistic than me! However, I feel I've got to (slightly) disagree (in a round about way) on what you've said. If we're all lucky, this will be my final comment on this subject.

*Puts on Devil's Advocate gloves*

1. Pictures. It takes less than 30 seconds to look at a picture. If people won't read or much less comment on a 5 minute long short story, do you think a 30-45 minute chapter is going to stand a chance? For reference purposes, chapter 4 of SS was as long as the ENTIRE of my longest fan-fic to date (the north tower).

2. Laziness. I'm sorry but I find the 'Laziness' remarks offensive. People don't have to comment, see the next point below.

3. Support & Respect. This is where I think you are completely wrong. The people of PSOW have no obligation, duty or requirement to support or respect us. It is perfectly within their rights to be a member of this website for 3 years and NEVER visit Fan-Works. Or to visit and only look and comment on pictures. Or to only read certain stories because they are friends with the writer.
It's their choice, we can bitch and moan about it but it won't make a diffenence. I mean, if there was a way to force poeple to read my stories, I would have used it already (in fact I have discovered a way... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )

As for respect, all of us writers deserve respect, from the greatest to the least of us. But respect must be earned, not demanded AND you cannot respect someone you've never met.

4. Fan-fics dying out. Excuse my bluntness, but WHO will care? The very same people you are complaining about that never read fan-fics won't even notice. The writers will move on and the only the readers will lament.

5. Laziness. Did mention how much that bugs me? People can comment if they want or not. It's up to them.
I myself have looked at many fan-pics and not commented. That makes me just as guilty as the people who view my stories and not comment.
So... In a way, instant karma has already got me http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

*takes off Devil's Advocate gloves*

Okay, stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Sagasu
Aug 18, 2004, 10:49 AM
On 2004-08-18 01:55, mr_rubbish wrote:


3. Support & Respect. This is where I think you are completely wrong. The people of PSOW have no obligation, duty or requirement to support or respect us. It is perfectly within their rights to be a member of this website for 3 years and NEVER visit Fan-Works. Or to visit and only look and comment on pictures. Or to only read certain stories because they are friends with the writer.
It's their choice, we can bitch and moan about it but it won't make a diffenence. I mean, if there was a way to force poeple to read my stories, I would have used it already (in fact I have discovered a way... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )




http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Of course, thats the painful truth of the matter. I am many targeting other writers here. We are under no obligation, but if one takes the time anf effort to get through your 30-45 minute chapter and comment, the least you can do is the same back for them. If you take a look, at most of the fan-fics that get good comment rates, most of the people there have writter, or are writing.

Interesting, no?

If fan-fics die out, the writers will care. And for that reason, they will never, truly dissapear. The entire psow site has been somewhat slow of late, since people are done with summer and getting back into school, older folks have their jobs to do, etc. =/

I imagine that we'll get a wave of fresh blood when pso-u comes aroud. But other than this, its getting old, isn't it? Most of the more expereinced writers around here have grown quite tired of playing pso, and writing about it. A lot of the new writers are not, so their work could quite happily be written about what others consider to be quite dull, and boring. Though its a wheel, it has many layers http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I guess thats all I have to say for right now, we'll see about later though.

BOC
Aug 21, 2004, 07:27 AM
On 2004-08-17 15:34, Azbats wrote:
I think that is a very insightful answer BOC [and I know how much you support the writers here... although you didn't comment on mine http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif]and you have pointed out what the writers here have all been saying... YOU JUST DON'T GET SUPPORT AT ALL.


well i dont know about supporting writers, i just like reading stuff! then feel the need to comment. and yeah http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif i haven't commented on ur fic azbats, and to be honest its because i haven't read it yet.

but know im kinda feeling this urge to go read it...



On 2004-08-18 01:55, mr_rubbish wrote:
5. Laziness. Did mention how much that bugs me? People can comment if they want or not. It's up to them.
I myself have looked at many fan-pics and not commented. That makes me just as guilty as the people who view my stories and not comment.
So... In a way, instant karma has already got me http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

*takes off Devil's Advocate gloves*

Okay, stick a fork in me, I'm done.


no fork, but will a spoon do?

speaking for myself, if there isn't a comment from me on a fic or a pic its because i haven't looked at it or read it yet. and i'll admit rite here and now, if there is something from somebody i know on this forum posted up 9/10 times i will read it. if its somebody i don't know then theres less chance i'll read it. when i first log on, i scan down the list of names beside the post titles. if i see a name im familiar with and if its new or has a new post, i'll check it out.

its like 'an old boy network' in a way. if ur 'in', your buddies will read it, but if ur not, they won't.

and i'll admit sometimes i get lazy and just can't be bothered reading another fic tonight. but look at it like this. how many people will read 5 or 6 different books at the same time? they don't. they prefer to concentrate on 1 story at a time. fics r the same. if u follow too many t the same time, you'll lose track!

another thought occuring to me is that everyone and his dog who are active in hte fan works have tried their hand at a pic/fic/groupie/poem/somethingthink about it. apart from a new of our newer buddies, can you think of someone who hasn't done something? which means that everyone is more busy working on their own stuff to be reading other stuff and rating it. i know myself, when i was helping out in any of the recent group fics, and then when i did my short fic, i read nothing. zero. nadda. i would spend my online time working on whatever it was at the time, then just not be in the mood for any more fanfic related stuff.

maybe now that CTP1 has died, and i have a little more extra time i can finally start to check out a few of the newer fics on the forum.

am i making any sense here? bah, anyway u guys r all damn good writers, and remember as some1 very wise mentioned on this topic list, write for urself, and to hell with the rest. as long as u enjoy writing.

PEACE!!!