Hucast stats versus Hucaseal stats at lvl. 40

[tsukishonin]

http://www.planetps2.com/pe2/forum/philboard_read.asp?id=164

[Wewt]

Hmm...+32HP,+14ATP for HUcasts
+15ATA, +16EVP for HUcaseals...
It seems HUcasts are no longer the superpowerful class anymore.
But I still wonder if the stat trends stay the same past lv100...

[Malkavian]

That's a proof of cheating too.
In the trial get past lv 30 is very hard. And the HUcaseal has lv up in the moment and she gets 3 ata at time. That must be like 3-4 lvs at once.
Well i like more HUcaseal the ata leap is huge

[Wewt]

I don't think it's cheating. I believe the trial allows upto lv50. Can anyone confirm this?

[_xX_Frosty_Xx_]

Man.........*throws Frost in the garabge heap* Sorry bro =/

[Malkavian]

After lv 30 the exp to lv up is ridiculous. There will be hardly lv 40 legit and the real proof is look the HUcaseal lv up thats more than 1 lv up at once. 17 atp... 3 ata... in 1 lv up impossible

[Wewt]

Look carefully and you'll see that the HUcaseal skipped a few levels as it leveled up. So it was within a battle game (quicker to level up and test stats).

[X-thirteen]

hucast still=win

[TeamPhalanx]

It's as expected; I am somewhat surprised that the DFP remained the same.

[AynRand]

just at lvl 40 a big ata difference is already being seen, bif of less pow and hp is all the hucaseal has less than the hucast, they both are fairly evenly balanced

[watashiwa]

Eh, I wouldn't trust battle mode stats. >.> Who knows if they parallel the real game or not?

[Malkavian]

Mm lol is battle... heh
Well in ver2 battle and game stats are the same

[TeamPhalanx]

Now, all we need are lv 40 stats for all the classes. I wanna see if ST lost it and really did give HUnewearl higher DFP than the androids.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TeamPhalanx on 2002-06-28 11:35 ]</font>

[Defend]

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Malk.. timer gives it away heh

The ATP and EVP are about what's expected.. the difference would grow as they level more I guess.

DFP deadlocked.. interesting.
Her ATA is impressive, in return, he has 10% more HP which is pretty good too.


I'm still leaning towards HUcast. My RAcast will do the high ATA business.. any HU-exclusive would have good ATA already. I like ATP and HP I do. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[SMOKU_9X]

Hmm...very cool.

OFF TOPIC:
I heard Mag_Launcher or somebody talking about an AR class (Archer). Anyone heard of this?

[VulpesMundi]

On 2002-06-28 08:51, TeamPhalanx wrote:
It's as expected; I am somewhat surprised that the DFP remained the same.


Her DFP went up 4 points. You seem to forget that a HUcaseal doesn't have MST. Look at the kanji and compare the ones in the status window to the ones for the level up and you'll notice...

ATP +17
DFP +4
ATA +3
EVP +11

For a non-RA char to gain 3 ATA in one shot she had to gain 5 or 6 levels at one time (non-RAs gain 1/2 point of ATA per level, assuming that didn't change for E1&2). One thing you've gotta admit though is that 4 DFP gained in 5 or 6 levels sucks rocks. Still, her ATA seems an awful lot higher than her male counterpart. And since these pics are definately from Battle mode it's not likely to be altered by Hit mats. Intruiging. Gotta wonder what the final max stats will be. If a HUcaseal has a higher max ATA I'd definately pick her over a HUcast. I'd rather be able to hit more accurately than do just a little more damage.

[Defend]

I think Phalanx meant the same, compared to a HUcast. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I'm also interested to see how HUnny DFP goes. I'm hoping they're gonna be better than HUmar in reset rule battling.

Its possible that the HUnny has less max-DFP, but grows it alot faster. So for about 100 levels she's on top, but then falls behind (I hope not though hehe).


It will be really good to have stat growth that doesn't do a U turn at level 100.

[TeamPhalanx]

If HUnewearl's DFP is in fact tops among HUnters, her HP will probably be among the lowest; I'd guess a tad higher than FOmar's.

It's funny though, since I'm importing I don't have the luxury of waiting and hear about how each class is from other players like I did with version 2.

[VulpesMundi]

Here's an observation I made. According to Ah King about those pictures, the chars gained three levels per death in Battle mode. If this is true, then the HUcaseal gained 1 ATA per level, making her ATA just as effective as a RA's. Even more amazing will be a HUcaseal's usefulness in challenge mode if this holds true. She'll start c9 with roughly 84 ATA not counting any MAG bonus), which means with a MAG bonus she may be able to use an Assault right from the start. Forget RAs, the HUcaseal will have almost as much ATA and close to twice the ATP.

Here's a breakdown...

HUcast starts level 1 with 67 ATA. HUcast at level 40 has 87 ATA. HUcast gains 0.5 ATA per level (0.5 x 39 = 19.5, rounded up to 20, 67 + 20 = 87).

I'm guessing a HUcaseal starts level 1 with 63 ATA. HUcaseal at level 40 has 102 ATA. HUcaseal gains 1 ATA per level (1 x 39 = 39, 63 + 39 = 102).

A HUcast may have a few more points of ATP, but the huge spread in ATA after the HUcaseal gains some levels is quite intruiging. I'd definately pick a HUcaseal over a HUcast if this holds true in the final release.

[Defend]

Good points.. HUcaseal has 71 ATA at level 1 actually ( http://www.planetps2.com/pe2/forum/philboard_forum.asp?forumid=2 )

HUcast has.. 64. Wtf.. HUnny has 63 as is.
Ugh I don't get what they're doing with these HU stats!

Anyway RAmar ATA has gone up by 10, to a start of 80 at level 1. Can't tell wether this is for RAmar only, or all rangers, but it could mean there's some change in how ATA is handled in PSO. For example, to make the difference more noticeable between RA and HU, maybe they've upped the req'd ATA on guns, and increased RA ATA accordingly. That's actually an idea I wouldn't mind.. ATA was such a non-issue in PSO, HUnters just had weapons that added huge ATA anyway.

Well, ST must be doing something with ATA. A HUcaseal already beats a DC RAmar, but they've changed him too.. so something must be changing with how ATA works imo.

Lordy 71 at lvl 1 aint bad..

[Wewt]

Hucaseal might have the advantage in the ATA department but HUcast still remains with the highest ATP. Most CMode TA players use HUcast because of ATA yes...but you forget their atp makes such a difference in most cases.
Such as C9, HUcast can use Pallasch right from the start. If the stats stay the same for weapon usage then HUcaseal wouldn't be able to use the pallasch for at least 2 level ups.

Besides...sabers in Cmode are better than mechs anyway.

[Defend]

Yay Go HUcast hehe. Shame the caseals look so dam good.

[Rhete]

On 2002-06-28 10:08, watashiwa wrote:
Eh, I wouldn't trust battle mode stats. >.> Who knows if they parallel the real game or not?


Exactly

[VulpesMundi]

That's very intruiging indeed. Assuming weapon requirements stayed the same, a HUmar can now use a Handgun in c1 without a level, but a HUcast can't. =X.x=

Other things to note is a HUmar starts with exactly the same ATP as a HUcast and HUcaseal. Of course their gains are different, but that seems to be an odd move on Sega/ST's part. All the stats seem rather weird to me. But perhaps an error from the past will be repaired. Ranger's don't need a lot of DFP and EVP since they're usually firing a gun from a distance. They have far too much in ver.2.

We're just gonna have to see what happens with the final version and hope things come out a lot more balanced than they have in the past.

[Defend]

Yep, the HUs have gotten wierd..


I really doubt ST would make BA stats say something different to what the class is described as.

[Wewt]

I hope the stat gains per level vary as you level up. I really don't think HUcast's ATA has gone lower than on the DC version. I think that maybe all the other classes ATA has skyrocketed that's all...

[ShadowNeo]

I'm going to stick with my HUcast, higher ATP and HP appeals much more to me. Also, if I wanted ATA that bad I could simply provide for that by using a high ATA mag. Of course this wouldn't help in challenge mode but would help in the main game I guess.

[Defend]

HU weapons already had all the ATA that was necessary imo. It was a bit ripped how that Imperial Pick wouldn't miss, even for a HUmar. What's the point of having RAngers?

I wouldn't mind if the stat growth for a character goes out a bit.. a little bit. But the way v2 did it, with a complete restructuring of stat growth at level 100, which would go mad for about 30 levels then slow down to v2 style growth. UGH!!
I would like a class to be what is expected, all the way through. I don't want "oh he's weaker until such and such level" etc.

[HC82]

Well since HUnewearl is the queen of dfp, her HP can't be that low.

If you sacrifce dfp/evp for hp your pretty much defeating the purpose of dfp/evp, survival.

If you have insane defensive stats with really low hp, that defeats the prupose of the def/evp. You'll still die as easily as someone with alot more hp and low defensive stats. It's just reverse. Evp being the only major factoring difference since high evp allows you to completely negate an incoming attack. Although dfp and evp has nothing to do with tech damage taken, only resist and HP. So higher hp means you can take tech hits better. Although evp was IMO an important stats in ver2 since high evp charcaters evaded all the generic enemies attacks a large percentage of the time.

Pretty much, all iam saying is that a HUnewearl might have the lowest HP of the hunters for the sake of balancing, but if it's too low then her dfp won't mean squat.

[Defend]

High EVP characters didn't evade anything. My maxed RAcast, not high EVP I know, can't block most of caves. The v2 armour I'm guessing you had was doing all that. There is no EVP game, you either have the armour/shield for it, or you don't. Your character's stats make very little difference anyhere past caves. Even then, your character's EVP won't grow to a point where they can safely block in a given area, until they are way past strong enough for that area anyway.

I hate EVP anyway, if your EVP is on the borderline, it is actaully safer, thanks to v2's "improved" pussy hit system, to GET hit. Blocking not only leaves you vulnerable, but turns off any invulnerability you might've been in. While you're in the invulnerable second, EVP is just trouble. You can't get hit, but you CAN block, putting you back in danger for the next hit on its way. Invulnerable to vulnerable, only 'cos of EVP.

High HP low DFP is stronger than high DFP low HP as DFP only blocks physical attacks. HP counters physical, magical and HP attacks. I wouldn't be surprised if her HP is quite low.. it will definately be the lowest anyway, which already goes against the "high DFP = high HP" point someone brought up.




I need more sleep.. nightshift uuggghh..... bad mood...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Defend on 2002-07-02 04:07 ]</font>

[Wewt]

I agree with Defend, HIgh HP+low DFP is better than high DFP+low HP.
I simply prefer to have high HP because of the bosses...Since we all know that many of the bosses attacks do fixed damage regardless of DFP/EVP.

[Defend]

What would be my little ideal would be for HUcaseal and HUcast to have the same ATP, and RAcast to still be the DFP/HP king he is now!

I doubt either would happen, but if HUcaseal would just have HUcast ATP, like v1 did the hunters, I'd definately go with her. Then my RAcast could be my HP fix, and I'd he happy I get to make a HUcaseal hehe!

Can't they just put a HUcast in a HUcaseal's body? Perfection. XD

[HC82]

As for HP > DFP, this holds true depending on the amounts. I tend to value HP over dfp and see a better performance with higher hp. Point per point 80 dfp tends to be more valuable then 80 hp assuming your not a low HP class. Although 250 HP is IMO better then 80 dfp. I say this not because of just your ability to survive, but because with more HP you fall on the ground less from hits. Falling on the ground wastes time. Ver2 is a bit different, so after your hit you have a brief moment of invincibility from any other attacks, so you can easily heal afterward get back into the fray. You get longer invincibility if you fall on the floor, intill you do an action.

I'll post my evasion percentages and why I found evp usefull with my FO. I think the evasion animation should be a bit faster though.

I found evp important when doing the Forest~Ruins, when it comes to taking damage. At least as a FO. In battle mode evp isn't too valueable since players tend to fall on there ass making them briefly invincible after they stand up. Only in one instance where it comes in handy in battle mode.

After you evade/defend if the following incoming attack is within a few frames of the first hit(two enemies hit you) it will count them as two seperate hits. After your done defending if your "fast" enough you can easily move out of the way perventing you from taking another hit, or in the case of a FO, you probably just Jellen and Zalure the enemy, in which case you will probably get hit afterward if your teamates haven't reach the enemies yet(I tend to enter the room first). If you evade, after your defensive animation your teammates are already on the enemy so theres no fear of being hit back and you completely negated damage. It's also possible to go right in for another hit after evading if your dead on with the timing(right on with the input when the frame of animation allows for you to go into an attack).

I always find evading usefull and it prevents me from falling on the floor. Falling on the floor wastes time and I can always get in a counter hit directly after evading an enemies attack. As soon as the defensive animation ends you can go right into a melee attack(the weapon matters) or just step out of the way of the next attack and counter back.

I'd rather completely negate damage and repostion myself, then fall on the floor, waste time and my chance of snagging kills while my team does there thing(45% pick = dead enemy). I find falling on the floor to decrease my characters performance since I can't do anything those few seconds on the floor. If I take a hit it's brief and I can get back into the fray. If I evade it's shorter then falling on the floor, negates damage, and also get back into the fray.

Only time evasion is bothersome is if many enemies are attacking me one after another(3 or more).

Personally I do feel that the evade animation should be faster, but I still find evading very usefull as a FO.

I evade quite frequently, less as the stage becomes more difficult.

Not quite sure how much ver 2 armors add to a lower evp charcater, Fonewearls have evp almost on par with a HUmar so the ver2 armor might make a difference. A naturally high evp character like a Hucast can use white ring and an Ultimate frame and have a pretty good evasion.

So long as your Evp is 1050 you have a decent evade. Over 1125 and it's possible to evade claws(very obtainable with a Racaseal), where as anything below that is impossible to evade a claw. Different levels of evasion allow you to have a fair evasion rate against certain enemies.

With 1050 evade and online.

You evade everything in the forest 100% with 1050 evade, with the exception for the mantis thingy, and the ver2 hildes, which is about a 35% evasion rate.

In the caves it's about 40% for the first two enemy fodder types.

In the mines you can evade those gilchics attacks about 60% of the time. Only other enemy that is actually physical are the sinow beats. Not sure on evasion there, always get hit.

In the ruins evading the blue and pink type ulti deminans is about 25% to 20% respectively. I remeber testing it. With HUmar I haven't evaded a Belra yet, but I evaded a C bringer twice, But thats because of my hanters shell which randomly cause you to just evade attacks regardless of evp.

Offline evading is even easier.

[VulpesMundi]

I personally think evasion is a bit cheesy. If Sega/ST really wanted to do something special they would have added an optional active defense system. In this ADS you'd time the use of the Z button (GC) to attempt to block an incoming attack instead of just automatically blocking based on a calculation of your EVP stat. In this case EVP would still have an effect in that if your stat is not good enough your attempt to block could crumble under the attack and you'd still get hit, so it's not a surefire system. Running around a critter and avoiding contact entirely would still be the best way to not get hurt. It'd be nice if you could block laser attacks, too. Spells, of course, cannot be avoided with this.

Just wishfull thinking...

[Wewt]

Yeah, adding a block button of some sort is a great idea, of course this will involve some sort of skill...and we know Sonic Team made this for the masses...so this probably won't happen http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[BWS-1]

hmmm, the thing is, if the max stats don't change (which would mean the HUcasts' max ATA would still be at 181) I think HUcasts will suck big time in EXTREM mode.

MISS
MISS
MISS
MISS
MISS
MISS
MISS
0
MISS
MISS
MISS
1
MISS
MISS
MISS
MISS
...

[Wewt]

HUcasts will still do well in ULTRASUPERSAIYAN456755894789635HARDCORE mode.

[watashiwa]

On 2002-07-03 13:54, WWWWWWWWWWWW wrote:
HUcasts will still do well in ULTRASUPERSAIYAN456755894789635HARDCORE mode.



I really want my SSJ4VegetaDBZSephiroth HUmar though..

[MetalGriever]

lol
Over at Ah King's page, they now have the lv40 stats for all 4 hunters. What's surprising is that the HUmar's HP is higher than that of the HUcaseal. Kinda strange the HUnewearl would have more DFP than the HUmar unless newmen were created with a far superior bone structure to that of humans.

[TeamPhalanx]

Someone wanna post the pics or link?

[Parn]

Ah King said on his forum that he's still working on it, but...

http://www.planetps2.com/pe2/pso/html/hunters.html

[Zarana]

Interesting. I am more than a little bit pleased with the stat progression of HUnewearl, I must say. Seems not only will I be playing one again, but now I can actually make the case that she is superior to the other Hunters... Not that I wouldn't do the same thing before, but now it's more than a total lie.

With those defensive, evasive and mental stats, as well as the Shifta factor, I can honestly see it being *very* advantageous to make a HUnewearl again.

[Defend]

You know what's realllly surprising? The FOmar has MORE EVP than the HUcast.

And the FOmar should have the least of all FO.. which means the HUcast would have less EVP than any FO!

I don't mind at all hehe, I hate EVP. And robots being worse at weaving and dodging makes perfect sense to me hehe. They've flipped around the EVP bias with the droids vs bios.. droids just aren't good with EVP anymore it seems. HUcaseals little bit extra won't mean squat either.

Her accuracy is quite good, but ATP and HP vs ATA.. when I'll already have a RAcast... yep, definately HUcast for me. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Finally, I've decided.

[Defend]

Yeh I'm thinking like that with the HUnewearls too. She was my main character, and first, only to get left on the shelf for most of my v2 time.
Her DFP isn't any big draw once that HP of hers is considered, but unless the RA play a wildcard, she'll now have the most EVP in PSO.

And did you say Shifta? Is THAT the spell HUnny still get? O how sweet if that were true, to be able to finally use my main character again and not feel ripped off.


Of my 5 v2 characters, my FOmarl, HUnewearl, HUcast, and RAcast are all being remade. I can't give up the FOmarl, and my other 3 are already the perfect set (of their classes) imo. Yay! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Zarana]

I do believe it's been confirmed that HUnewearl is the only Hunter who can use Shifta, which just makes me feel so happy I could cry. She's now the only Hunter that can actually lay claim to being self-sufficient, and that just rocks my socks. It's so far overdue... hehehe.

Also, I'm very disappointed in HUcaseal, although you're absolutely right that it makes sense. I've never understood how a RAcast could have higher EVP than a HUmar... it was just ridiculous. HUcast, too. I just can't picture Androids that huge dodging.

Anyway, as it stands, I far prefer HUnewearl to the other Hunters. If she has as much semi-exclusive equipment as she did before, I'll be even more overjoyed. Either way, though, I like the decision Sonic Team made.

[ShadowNeo]

Ah King has an excellent comparrison chart here: http://www.planetps2.com/pe2/pso/html/hunters.html.

For the Hunter Class:

Highest HP: HUcast
Highest TP: HUnewearl
Highest ATP: HUcast
Highest DFP: HUnewearl
Highest MST: HUnewearl
Highest ATA: HUcaseal
Highest EVP: HUnewearl

I'm still sticking with a HUcast, I'll just devote a higher proportion of my mag to cover Accuracy if I really need it and EVP won't matter much to me, my HP and DFP will handle that problem.







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowNeo on 2002-07-04 02:26 ]</font>

[Malkavian]

Aww the hunter droids evp hurts x_x
Well the ata of hucaseal is just awesome http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif