FANART

[digigram]

I have a feeling a lot of you are going to be offended by this, particularly the ones that do fanart for PSO. (even though the ones on PSOW I have seen are fairly decent)..

BUT

What is it, about some, if not MOST FAN ART, that is totally fucking HORRIBLE! I got bored and went looking for information on advent children, ended up at adventchildren.net. Was looking at images, then bothered to go into fan art, man I know better.

Is it just that, i'm the type of person that does not understand why putting up extremely shitty drawings of characters in a game that look TOTALLY different than the way you even drew them.

Not only the teenage/post-teenage "look at me artists" that do this trash, but the site developers themselves should be ashamed for not thinking of better ways to fill your domain registered name with content, than giving in to people that have nothing better to do other than worship a fictional characters persona.

EVEN THOUGH THE ABOVE MAKES IT SEEM I HATE ALL FANART CREATORS
this is far from the truth.

I actually Respect those of you that can ACTUALLY draw and paint with skill.. some of the arts I have seen actually look pretty decent.. I really meant for the above to be a vent on 99.9999999% of the other "artists".



go ahead.. flame me.

[Bradicus]

Well...

The people you respect didn't start off with that kind of talent. I have no problem with people posting pictures that they are proud of (alliteration, bitches http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif ).

No matter what their skill level is.

[digigram]

I don't really mind it either, only if they would post it to their own sites. I understand that everyone starts off somewhere, but if someone starts off doing visual arts, you don't expect to get a gallery showing do you?

work at it until it is pleasing to look at... not some extremely wide eyed anime version of some character thats already anime looking. Head mishapen,fucked up fingers, tongue mouth, eyes, no ears, hair that looks exactly like fucking some DragonBall trashcan sketch.

ugh

[Deathscythealpha]

Maybe to them they had worked at it to an extent that had pleased them, yet were looking for a response from other people on how to improve their drawing style? Sometimes artists just need pointers and help, and by putting it on a public website they can get this. How many people are going to go to 'Steve's First Website' to tell him how to improve? Not many i expect. But there will be loads of traffic going to a bigger named website and those people are more likly to leave comments.

[digigram]

in that case, I'll make it my mission to go around and tell everyone that either get better or stop doing it, while filling in the blanks on what about it is shit.

[WraithVerge]

just don't go around blatantly saying "THIS SHIT SUCKS!" cause I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like someone saying that to you about something you've put time and thought into, whether you think its the greatest thing in the world or just mediocre.

something along the lines of "I don't particularly enjoy this. You can improve here, here, and here..."

[Scejntjynahl]

Better yet, just visit the threads of the "artists" you already think are good, and forget going to the other ones, its not like your been forced to click on them anyways. And rule of thumb if it has very little next to none responses then most likely that would be a thread you wouldnt want to click on.

[digigram]

just don't go around blatantly saying "THIS SHIT SUCKS!" cause I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like someone saying that to you about something you've put time and thought into, whether you think its the greatest thing in the world or just mediocre.

Now did I say I was going to go around and act like a 12 year old? Observe.

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=90782&forum=12&10

[Solstis]

On 2004-09-30 10:31, digigram wrote:
I don't really mind it either, only if they would post it to their own sites. I understand that everyone starts off somewhere, but if someone starts off doing visual arts, you don't expect to get a gallery showing do you?

work at it until it is pleasing to look at... not some extremely wide eyed anime version of some character thats already anime looking. Head mishapen,fucked up fingers, tongue mouth, eyes, no ears, hair that looks exactly like fucking some DragonBall trashcan sketch.

ugh



I could say the same thing for fanfiction... but it's all a learning process.

It is not your place to deny those the chance to broaden their skills and improve, and nor is it mine to tear apart your argument... others already have.

[Garanz2]

So you commented on Outriders work merely to prove a point. Great job. How about, instead of just saying; 'this is shit', why not actually say why it's shit?

Here, how about critiquing This? (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/10977163/) (1 and a half hours work)


It doesn't measure up to Kuda, or Outrider, or Navi, or Doomed2k, or SHINE, or DBS!

BIG WOW!

So if someone spends 15 minutes, an hour, or even a week of their life on a piece of art, if it isn't the best, you can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds of yours appreciating it?

Experience leads to improvement, whether you're making a masterpiece or a sketch, whether you're the reincarnation of Pablo Picasso himself, or Billy the dyslexic three year old. How about trying to help people improve instead of throwing their 'unprofessional work - OMFG!' back in their faces?

EDIT: Typos - Added to rant.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garanz2 on 2004-09-30 11:24 ]</font>

[digigram]

While filling in the blanks on what about it is shit. you guys can read right? .

I NEVER SAID I WAS GOING TO GO AROUND AND JUST SAY "THIS IS SHIT, STOP"

So fucking knock it off. And no. I didn't post in outriders thread merely to prove a point.. I actually really like it, and posted that I did before fucking smartass assumptions were being thrown at me.


by the way, I would give a critique on the link you had given me, but it wouldn't go through to it. I guess i'll just have to try later.

although, I have seen some of your other work in the "fanwork" section and would have to say it is fairly unusual..

Now. by all of you defending constructive criticism, then I shall participate. Garanz. Study more on bodily form and how a structure such as a skeleton, functions. then the style that you seem to have aquired (stretched, contrasted, blade-like), would look pretty nice, otherwise, the figures themselves look awkward.

note: you have something going with the style, because it looks good, it just hurts to see a figure that otherwise, has no hope for functionally walking around without having one leg visibly longer than the other or having no pelvis..

(please tell me if this hurts feelings)

If it does hurt feelings..then none of you, that have defended those that are doing FANART, have a reason to do so, in the sense of completely contradicting your own arguements.

otherwise.. do I seem like i'm being unbearable, regarding my "critique" of other peoples "gift" to those that look at them? I create music, like you would all create visual art, so it's somewhat against my nature to just say "this is shit" if i don't like it, I'll tell someone why I don't like it.


(((thanks garanz)))




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: digigram on 2004-09-30 11:55 ]</font>

[Garanz2]

Ok, I withraw what I said. Thank you for the tips.

I just think that dumbing down someone's work because someone else can do it better is grossly unfair.
Example:

Person A, who is quite experienced, spends an hour and a half and produces a piece of art.
Person B, who is not quite as good, spends two hours, and produces a piece of art that he is proud of, but doesn't compare to Person A's work.

Surely the amount of praise they get should be based on how much of their ability they used, rather than how much better or worse the other artist's was?

[Deathscythealpha]

On 2004-09-30 11:39, digigram wrote:

While filling in the blanks on what about it is shit. you guys can read right? .

I NEVER SAID I WAS GOING TO GO AROUND AND JUST SAY "THIS IS SHIT, STOP"



Its the wording. Saying 'What about it is shit' automatically makes you think you are putting peoples work down. Now if you had said 'While filling in the blanks on what needs improving' seems less derogatory of peoples work.

[Sharkyland]

My art to me is crap. :/ But the more I draw, the more I get better.

[digigram]

I believe that if someone has developed their own style, thats one thing. but, FANART, is simply, drawings or creations based on someone elses imagination..

Now something like.... oh damn..who was it.... ugh.. that did a comic, with a fonewearl and a.....um .... shit..nevermind..those of you who saw it know what i'm talking about... thats pretty unique, outriders stuff that I saw (very expressive portrait of nivek) was great work, becauseit simply was unlike any style I had seen depicting an individual character. Now, I saw others, while they were fairly good, they looked reasonably more like an exact form of a character from "Inuyasha" (example: miroku with bright blue hair, using a psycho wand and a nidra floating behind them).

Otherwise, if it's an original creation, using an eye that can create something unique (comic, original portrait, speculative fictional representations) then ya... by all means, the difference between Class A and Class B of the spectrum regarding illustrative skill would definately work well.

Isn't when someone is merely taking a vision someone else had created (Sonicteam/Square) and trying to re-draw that same thing, mixtures included (miroku meets FOmar)...then how is this developing ones skill in an illustrative field when the person isn't really illustrating anything. They simply are taking a character, visually, from a game or story, and drawing them specifically to fit their character.


please, by all means, don't take what i'm saying personally, I really just like debating these sort of things.

"how FANART reflects personal illustrative development"

[digigram]

ahh .. i found it.

http://www.deviantart.com/view/10795010/

This to me, while being, respectively, a form of FANART, it is very unique, using fictional characters from someone elses creation and Creating a fictional world within that, much like fan-fiction. But this is illustrated and to add is very entertaining..

Not saying this is better than everyone elses work, it is very original and is simply more original than a lot of the works I have seen.


Tell you what, how about when I get some time to do so, I'll do a couple renditions of my characters and share them with you guys, to deconstruct and tell me I suck.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: digigram on 2004-09-30 13:27 ]</font>

[Deathscythealpha]

On 2004-09-30 13:19, digigram wrote:
Isn't when someone is merely taking a vision someone else had created (Sonicteam/Square) and trying to re-draw that same thing, mixtures included (miroku meets FOmar)...then how is this developing ones skill in an illustrative field when the person isn't really illustrating anything. They simply are taking a character, visually, from a game or story, and drawing them specifically to fit their character.


When asking a friend whos on an illustration course at my Uni about how i should go about improving my drawings, she told me to look at other peoples work and try copying/sketching parts of it. Doing this allows you to work out how to do positioning of limbs, the shape of hands, what expressions look like etc. So doing some form of fanart is, in a way, helping you to improve your artwork. Now when people get hung up copying the same style, poses of even pictures over and over again it becomes less of a learning method and more like copying.

[Dhylec]

artwork, that includes from seeing, sketching, drawing, inking, coloring, etc., to the final finshed piece, is a learning process - it takes time to perfect one's style

those with less practice & experience will have 'em looking unpolished
with enough time & practice, things will improve

so just ignore those you don't wanna comment on & enjoy what you like
this rant is somewhat counter-productive & discouraging
those 'artists' with 'thin skins' will be easily feel offended
but those who take a positive look on this can consider as a 'reverse-psychology' to improve

[Daikarin]

Most of them are young teens. You can't expect every teenager to be a gifted DaVinci.

My artwork sucks now that I look back at it, but everyone's gotta start somewhere.

[Sayara]

I tried to avoid this thread but...

Well, its VERY hard to declair something good or bad in Art. Since everyone has such different ideas for good and bad. Like an Archetech for example can abhoar an Anime Artist style and an Anime Artist can despise Modern.

Its all on how people see it. These fanarts you saw, where you thought they were horrible or whatever could of been the best or the most developed that drawer had. And they coulda thought it was their best.

Its a nice feeling when an artist can go, "Wow! I really like how this turned out. It really shows off my good [insert media here]." Yet someone else who sees it can down right hate it.

And no, im not protecting those artists. I didnt even bother check those links. Im just saying it as i have seen it.

[digigram]

I guess in the long run, I have learned much from this rant, regarding how others see the idea of FANART. I still believe in the idea though, that, if i were to just start making electronic music (this is what i do), and was still learning about how particular waveforms shape timbre in frequency, I wouldn't be sending my tracks to record labels or people I didn't know, to inevitably, ask what they think of it.

The same can be said of any form of art. I would just as well, wait until I had developed my self-confidence with a piece of art I had created, to then share with friends and what not.

I, personally, have been drawing since I was 6-7 years old. I'm not the best, but I know when something I do is just dissatisfactory (sp)... Although some people (what I have learned) require social input to develop their style, I feel this hinders from developing a unique style to their personalities. yes yes, people are different, and while I agree with Dhylec on the fact that this thread acts as a distraction from those struggling to refine their images, and also a benefit to how those see and respect FANART, not to mention a rant, it has also helped me see how other FANART contributaries view what they are doing. Which in turn helps me feel a LOT less irritable when I see something that I feel a 19 Yr old could do better...... In all, I also think my Rant didn't really communicate how exactly I felt or more specifically, what I was ranting about.

so thanks.

I can probably consider this thread officially over because collectively, we have invalidated this rant.

Thanks for arguing with me guys..



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: digigram on 2004-09-30 15:54 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

But Dhylec, if you have a thin skin, you're not an 'artist'. *spoken in snotty accent* You're supposed to LIKE it when people give pointless negative comments! It's good for your suffering soul!

Eh, the whole thing is a bunch of bullshit. S'why I left art college, I can't get into the whole stuck-up, snobby mentality you have to have. "I never want to draw anything just because I think it's pretty again!" ...Ok, good for you, pardon me while I roll my eyes at all the shitty splotchy abstract paintings you go on to make that mean nothing.

Draw what you want to, do what you want to, if it fucking makes you happy, THAT'S what's important. Not if Random Art Snob #32,543,522 thinks it's not good enough. Though if someone is just telling you something sucks, you shouldn't put up with that bullshit. Hell, the picture I'm working on fucking sucks ass, and I know it. Do I care? Not really. I've spent a lot of time on it, I like it well enough, and I drew it for me, not for Random Art Snob #32,543,522. And if RAS#32,543,522 thinks it sucks ass, that's his own fucking problem, and he can suck me.

[PJ]

On 2004-09-30 11:39, digigram wrote:
I NEVER SAID I WAS GOING TO GO AROUND AND JUST SAY "THIS IS SHIT, STOP"

That is from this topic.



On 2004-09-30 10:57, digigram wrote:
I'm looking for Fanart to state is shit..


That is from Outrider's topic.

[Dhylec]

Ian-KunX wrote:
But Dhylec, if you have a thin skin, you're not an 'artist'. *spoken in snotty accent* You're supposed to LIKE it when people give pointless negative comments! It's good for your suffering soul!

ah! i only post in rants once in a blue moon & when i do things ain't so good

ian, don't take my comment the wrong way ok =]
true, if you are easily offended by comments & remarks, you won't make a very good artist

that's why i think we should take comments more lightly & don't be too hard on yourself

to me, everyone can draw!
but how well?
that's up to his/her own skill & talent.. then practice makes 'perfect'

[Orange_Coconut]

I came into this thread a bit late, but personally I don't believe that there is such a thing as bad artwork.

However, I also believe that art comes from hard work and emotion, and interests. Which means that someone drawing a red circle, yellow square, and blue circle says to me that they didn't even put hard work into their art.

But even people who may seem less talented than others obviously try, I'd be interested in sketches more than finished artwork. I would be interested to see how many people, the beginning artists and the well-known ones, have many eraser marks or sketchy lines. It's wonderful to see how much effort these people put into their artwork.

What people need is someone who can comment on their art, whether it be positive or negative. But saying that their drawings suck will cut off their motivation, also it's not that they "suck" so much as they're trying to become as good as others they see, or trying to break off from how others do it and draw in a unique style. But in order to do that, they need to test out a few things, have a year or so to learn the basics, then move on to more complicated things.

There are natural artists, and people who strive to become amazing artists. It's like anyone who may have a natural ability in anything, they may be able to draw a lunar landscape, and put every detail in every rock, moon, star, creature, or every ripple of water or texture on a leaf easily. But some people need to work to get to that point, and there are always people who seem so good that it'll be impossible to "get as good as them". But people need to get away from comparing, and share what they've learned from all the artists they like, and mix it into their own creations instead of letting these comparisons work against them.

So if you don't like something, constructive criticism is something that is usually acceptable. You just need to know what it is that's a bit off about the drawing, in your eyes, and try to make suggestions that will better help their understanding about how they may be able to improve in certain areas. :)

[Nai_Calus]

Dhylec, I'm offended not by your comment, but by the fact that you felt the need to address it to ME. I don't personally give a fuck if someone hates something I do, their problem, not mine, I didn't draw it for them. Only issues I ever have are if I pour hours and hours of hard work into something, and then nobody says ANYTHING. THAT'S when I care, and when I'd gladly take even a 'You fucking suck'. I don't give a rat's ass if someone thinks I suck, good for them, but I'd rather have them tell me that than nobody say anything(This means you, fanworks. XP).

What I do hate is when people are getting constructive comments and encouragement, and then some asshole barges in and says "Wow, this is crap". That fucking irks me, because I know that other people actually DO care if some fuckwit pointlessly flames their art.

[WraithVerge]

I've seen that happen before and it isn't fun. Really sucks the life out of the thread when someone says "it sux" and offers no help whatsoever.


Now did I say I was going to go around and act like a 12 year old?

No, but many a time people say they'll do something but he/she ends up NOT doing it and vice versa. All I was doing was offering a suggestion cause I misread the part Garanz pointed out; meant no harm by it, but I see the way I typed that response and how it might of offended you. No hard feelings man. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WraithVerge on 2004-09-30 22:15 ]</font>

[digigram]

I apologize for confusing people as well.. thanks for the reassurance.