Honesty

[Lone_Wolf_Nasca]

Well, in reality this is not much of a rant, but I feel scared at the moment http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif.

Honesty is such a important quality for me and yet this recent turn of events was discovered by Fefnir and Aredhel:




On 2005-02-23 09:25, Aredhel wrote:


On 2005-02-23 00:48, Fefnir wrote:

I've heard that before. Some person named Mary Elizabeth Frye wrote it I believe? I don't know, I really do like the poem there.





On 2005-02-10 04:44, Lone_Wolf_Nasca wrote:


On 2005-02-09 17:29, Aredhel wrote:

Wow.

Did you write that?



Yes, I wrote this very long ago, a bit after I joined PSOW. I enjoyed writing poetry quite a bit on those days but now I mostly write fan fictions or participate in the casual group-fic http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif.


http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem2670.html

Oh noes! We've unearthed a large conspiracy!



Note:The author was born in 1904, the poem was not written on 1904 I screwed up on that one >.<.

With all sincerity, I wrote this poem back when I joined PSOW. I have never ever heard the name of that author or for that matter readed any of his/her works. What horribly scares me is the fact that I came up with this poem on my own, and yet... here it is written by someone else on the year 1904. How could this be ? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Please notice, that honesty is a very important thing for me. I would never try to fool someone by telling them that someone's work is my own.

I do not wish to be labeled<sp?> as a liar, but I did come up with this poem on my own. Copying someones work and claiming it is your own is called plagiarism and it is the same as stealing, which by the way is also punishable by law. Why would I say this is my work, when someone could easily google it to verify ? Simple, becuase I did in fact write it on my own and never knew that someone also wrote something awfully similar to the point they look identical.

Sigh* This is so frustrating http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif . I just hope this does not hurt my reputation...

[Solstis]

It is possible that you once read the poem, and in your inspiration, more or less rewrote the poem via your subconscious?

Then again, I'm pretty sure that there's a Murphy's Law covering this sort of thing.

[Fefnir]

Edit1: Ignore this post. I'm a loser.

Edit2: Well, as long as my post is here, I might as well make a point.



On 2005-02-24 07:37, Solstis wrote:
It is possible that you once read the poem, and in your inspiration, more or less rewrote the poem via your subconscious?


The poem wouldn't necessarily be the same exact wording though. Well, it might, but this kind of thing rarely happens. Someone obviously copied the poem from someone here and since I don't really know Lone_Wolf_Nasca, I can't really say who is being honest here.

I don't think it would ruin your rep. I mean, who wouldn't want to plagirize such an awesome poem? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

If you did write that though, you've just made the top of my poet list. That poem rocks.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fefnir on 2005-02-24 07:41 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fefnir on 2005-02-24 07:53 ]</font>

[ABDUR101]

It's not like it can't happen, it's just quite rare.

It's like "coming up" with a new way to do something more efficiently on your own without any outside influence, only to tell someone about it and then be told that the idea you came up with was already thought up and put to use. You did'nt really copy what was already done, you just had the same brainstorm as someone else.

[Fefnir]

I got bored in history class and did some research...

http://www.businessballs.com/donotstandatmygraveandweep.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/poetic_journey/

The poem itself has quite a history to it... The again, it's the only available poem I can find by this Mary Elizabeth Frye person so it's possible that it was stolen and just given a random name for the author, along with a BS history... I can't even find a picture of the woman. Yet, Frye is, and has been noted as a famous poet, according to everything I'm reading.

Are you sure you wrote it? Maybe you just saved it to a wrong folder or copied it down without writing the poem or something?

There's a whole buncha sites about this Frye girl, but no available picture. Photographs were common in her lifetime, right? So one should most like be available... Weird stuff right here...



On 2005-02-24 09:18, ABDUR101 wrote:
It's not like it can't happen, it's just quite rare.

It's like "coming up" with a new way to do something more efficiently on your own without any outside influence, only to tell someone about it and then be told that the idea you came up with was already thought up and put to use. You did'nt really copy what was already done, you just had the same brainstorm as someone else.


Wouldn't there be at least one or two differences at least? Maybe a differently used word or something? It's a medium-sized poem so the chances of finding another author who wrote it exactly similar to it seems almost impossible...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fefnir on 2005-02-24 09:26 ]</font>

[Solstis]

On 2005-02-24 09:21, Fefnir wrote:
I got bored in history class and did some research...

http://www.businessballs.com/donotstandatmygraveandweep.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/poetic_journey/

The poem itself has quite a history to it... The again, it's the only available poem I can find by this Mary Elizabeth Frye person so it's possible that it was stolen and just given a random name for the author, along with a BS history... I can't even find a picture of the woman. Yet, Frye is, and has been noted as a famous poet, according to everything I'm reading.

Are you sure you wrote it? Maybe you just saved it to a wrong folder or copied it down without writing the poem or something?

There's a whole buncha sites about this Frye girl, but no available picture. Photographs were common in her lifetime, right? So one should most like be available... Weird stuff right here...



On 2005-02-24 09:18, ABDUR101 wrote:
It's not like it can't happen, it's just quite rare.

It's like "coming up" with a new way to do something more efficiently on your own without any outside influence, only to tell someone about it and then be told that the idea you came up with was already thought up and put to use. You did'nt really copy what was already done, you just had the same brainstorm as someone else.


Wouldn't there be at least one or two differences at least? Maybe a differently used word or something? It's a medium-sized poem so the chances of finding another author who wrote it exactly similar to it seems almost impossible...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fefnir on 2005-02-24 09:26 ]</font>


Obviously, someone activated the improbability field.

I've written poems alarmingly similar to Robert Frost's, and other by authors I've never heard of before.

Poems are born of inspiration. Inspiration is universal. Poems are universal.

It doesn't matter who wrote it as long as it was written.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2005-02-24 10:10 ]</font>

[navci]

I don't think you copied it.
Well that's cuz I think I know you pretty well, you don't seem the type to copy things and claim as your own.

No worries.

[Sagasu]

I dont believe you copied this, I've known you for quite some time and this is definatley not something you would do.

*huggles nasca*

Freak chances happen. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Fefnir]

Obviously, someone activated the improbability field.

I've written poems alarmingly similar to Robert Frost's, and other by authors I've never heard of before.

Poems are born of inspiration. Inspiration is universal. Poems are universal.

It doesn't matter who wrote it as long as it was written.


I obviously know nothing about the mind of a poet, so I'm just gonna withdraw from this conversation. Maybe you were Mary Elizabeth Frye in your past life... Hmm...

[Solstis]

On 2005-02-24 12:56, Fefnir wrote:


Obviously, someone activated the improbability field.

I've written poems alarmingly similar to Robert Frost's, and other by authors I've never heard of before.

Poems are born of inspiration. Inspiration is universal. Poems are universal.

It doesn't matter who wrote it as long as it was written.


I obviously know nothing about the mind of a poet, so I'm just gonna withdraw from this conversation. Maybe you were Mary Elizabeth Frye in your past life... Hmm...



http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I don't think that anyone truly knows how the mind of a poet works. Very "interesting" place indeed.

Did Frye like to plant trees?

[Eihwaz]

You're a nice person, Nasca, not the kind to copy work and say "THIS R BE ORIGINAL!!!1". If you were guilty, you wouldn't have made this topic. ^_^;

And I agree with Abdur, you just had the same brainstorm as this person.

[Hrigg]

It won't hurt your rep... it was a mere coincidence that it was similar to it. It's ok, you don't have to flip out. I believe your story. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[hollowtip]

If it has the exact same wording, the probability that you didn't copy it is worse odds then winning the lottery.

Post your poem, and let us all compare.

[Solstis]

On 2005-02-24 16:25, hollowtip wrote:
If it has the exact same wording, the probability that you didn't copy it is worse odds then winning the lottery.

Post your poem, and let us all compare.



http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=93421&forum=9&start=45

I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be the first time that someone has written an identical/nearly identical poem.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2005-02-24 16:32 ]</font>

[hollowtip]

Well I'm not going to call him a liar, but it is definitely not his work.

Nobody will convince me that this is just a coincidence. Maybe if it was a four line poem with simple vocabulary could you make the arguement, but this isn't so.

Since someone mentioned google, let's do a quick little experiment...

"I am the soft spoken human"
"I am the dove that flies above"
"I am a rose basking in sunlight"
"I am a lizard slithering about"
"I am the purring cat sleeping"
"I am adventuring into the unknown"

I searched in google line by line to see if any of these sentences, similar to his poem style (which is very common), would garner any results. These sentences were written in succession, and were the only ones I searched for.

6/6 came up with no results. I didn't use sophisticated or elaborate vocabulary, nor did I make the sentences complicated or too long.

My take:

1) The guy rewrote the poem but honestly didn't know for some reason or another.

or

2) He's a liar.

But like I said, I'm not going to call him a liar, but he very well could be.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hollowtip on 2005-02-24 17:16 ]</font>

[Lone_Wolf_Nasca]

On 2005-02-24 17:14, hollowtip wrote:
Well I'm not going to call him a liar, but it is definitely not his work.

Nobody will convince me that this is just a coincidence. Maybe if it was a four line poem with simple vocabulary could you make the arguement, but this isn't so.



Hollowtip, I respect your opinion on the matter, precisely this is what I feared that would happen, you do not know me hence you follow what common sense tells you, The odds of this happening is too high. He must have copied it. However most or all who have posted on my defense have known me for quite some time, and know that I am a very nature oriented person. I practically breath and sweat nature through-out every orifice in my body. I even studied Horticulture just so I could avoid being coop-up in a office.

If by some wild chance someone copied the poem from me and made a back story to cover his tracks and is making a profit out of it, well, good for that person, the poem has made someone a bit richer. I could not be more happy for that person.

What worries me is how people will now put in doubt my word, which for me is priceless as you can clearly see in my personal information here: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=93421&forum=9&start=15


words to live by: "A man is nothing without his word. I will live by my word until the day I die." My own words.

Every time I am not able to keep my word on time, I still remember what I said and promised to those people, becuase I gave them my word.

A drawing of Zi'Zuku for -Z

Sagasu's and Mr. Rubbish's glass Elysions.

Supporting Navi anyway I can.

Meira's and Navi's Skyly and Redria custom made glass section ID's.

A drawing of Misere that won't morph into a parrot or a field of tall grass.

Finishing my fic for Eclair to read a hundred times over.

Promising a decent wedding to my girlfriend once I am able to do so.

To love my future son eternally.

All these little things I remember, becuase I gave them all my word. Can you see now why I value Honesty ?

[Wyndham]

I hold honesty every bit as highly as you do, and I'm sure it's a coencidence, most likely.

[Solstis]

Hollowpoint, you do realize that the style used in *both* poems is quite common?

The themes are also very common. If it was someone other than Nasca (say that Solstis jerk), I would opt for either option 1 or 2. But since we're talking about the noble tree planter, I'd have to say that it's a coincidence.

I won't say that you have, perhaps, absolutely no clue about poetry, because I cannot know that Hollowpoint, but let me ask you this...

How many poems do you think have been written since 1904? Millions... billions? 1 or 2 cannot be unerringly similar?

My friends, that's the lottery odds right there.

[edit]: Hollowpoint, Hollowtip, whatevah. I was in a hurry.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2005-02-24 22:24 ]</font>

[navci]

No matter what the evidence is.
I just trust Nasca that hasn't do it.

Nasca, really, don't worry about it. People who trust you will trust you. People who don't trust you, don't know you, hence, it really doesn't matter. Now, go get yourself a lottery ticket. Win the grand price, and then move to Canada!

[Skorpius]

The poems are identical, and nothing in this world is identical, unless it's man-made, or actually copied. Expressed emotions and thoughts are natural, and two different expressions will NOT be exactly the same. Poems are like paintings, they may be similar, but they can't be exact without being copied or duplicated.

You may have copied it, unknowingly.

Does it hurt your reputation?
I didn't know you, but from reading this topic, No.

Does that make you a liar?
Maybe not, if you can accept that you accidentally claimed the words as your own. If you don't, and continue claiming that you wrote these words without prior knowledge of this, then yeah.

You're probably just trying to protect an ego punt. You might have forgotten you seen this, and had it written down, then claimed it was yours because it was in your writing and didn't remember the source,told friends, and all kinds of things. Who knows?

[ABDUR101]

In the end, I think the biggest question that needs to be answered is...who fucking cares?

It's a poem, you did'nt kill anyone, you did'nt do anything vile. As navi said, those who know you, beleive and trust you, and fuck if we care. Don't have to prove anything to anyone, honor or not.

Case closed, nothing more to see here.

Don't let it bother you nasca. =]