A random thought about the physics of the game...

[MT7218]

Is it just me, or am I the only one who thinks the guns work a little oddly in PSO? I mean, in the real world, the power of the gun's projectiles has very little to do with the user's strength, unlike a sword or any other type of melee wep. The bullet, fired by either a sharpshooting muscleman, or a puny little kid, will still have the basic impact. Granted, the mucleman would have less trouble with the recoil of the bullet when the weapon is fired, but that wouldn't be revelant to the impact, baring the recoil throwing off aim a little. The damage caused would still be the same. In PSO, the user's base ATP is taken into account along with the gun's ATP for total damage (Along with boosters like Shifta, Zalure, and %s). Granted, given the lower ATP of the guns in this game, vurses say, the swords (And I don't mean the weapon type of swords, I mean all of the melee weps put togher, like Swords, Sabers, ect...) they would suck without the base ATP, espically in Ult., but it still makes me think how it could be vaguly possible outside of ST programming them to be that way. It just doesn't seem very realistic to me... ...and this is coming from someone who has a lv170 RAmarl and a lv151 RAmarl in the game. Unless I missed something basic about physics, it doesn't seem to make much sense in the physical sense. Just my random pondering...

[Drayma]

I'm not even sure how the guns kill the enemies, because bullets are designed to destroy tissure (preferably organ tissue). But photons?

[Xaos127]

Its a game...

[Solstis]

On 2005-03-16 22:00, Xaos127 wrote:
Its a game...



A rather poorly thought out one, at that (when it comes to logic).

[Getintothegame]

Phantasy Star Online.

[Xaos127]

I highly doubt ST had any intentions of being realistic when they created this game.
Androids that can walk in water? And they breathe!!! Well actually looks more like they pant.
I'm thinking the programmers at ST might of had a little too much to drink




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xaos127 on 2005-03-16 22:21 ]</font>

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

Well you'd think ATA wouldn't apply to swords. Apparently larger Swords have less accuracy than sabers when due to their size and the size of the enemies, I'd think the enemies would have a much tougher time avoiding a Red Sword compared to a regular saber. Not to mention the fact that enemies have little mobility, most aren't capable of erratic movement.

Of the less mobile types you'd think Rappies would have the most EVP by far.

[Arnot]

Like it was said before, THIS IS JUST A GAME. If it was meant to be anywhere close to realistic, they would have incorporated it into the game. Asking a question like this could be compared to asking, "why or even how is it logicaly and physically possibly for Mario to expell balls of fire at his enemies."

Don't get me wrong i'm not ragging on you MT7218, but unless the game incorporates the word SIMULATION there is no need to question the logistics of the games physics. So the question, in turn, would be moot*.



*Of no practical importance; irrelevant.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arnot on 2005-03-17 00:09 ]</font>

[Tact]

As Frink said before:


Think of ATP not as muscle strength, but as your efficiency with a weapon.

[Mixfortune]

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=93753&forum=14

Anyways, some things to take into consideration...
As ForceOfBrokenGlass pointed out, guns aren't the only weapons that are "misinterpreted"... not to mention that melee weapons cut straight THROUGH the enemies, technically instant killing them... it'd also be physically impossible to perform the exact same combo for a particular weapon each time you use it (and why would you want to, anyways?)

You get hit, you don't bleed all over the place. Healing magic or recovery items alone aren't true to life, you die, you get brought back to life at the hospital, not to mention things like scape dolls (especially since if the role of a scape doll is to "take the hit", you wouldn't feel the affects of the hit anyways).

Use of magical type techniques, glitches, duping, thousands of meseta taking the same amount of space as 2 meseta, yet you can max yourself out with how much you can carry, talking rappies, talking rappies wearing pumpkins and cloaks playing tricks on people, taking weapons and items gained in Episode 2 VR Stages and using them outside of the VR Stage, endless spawn of bosses over and over, player character not being possessed or driven crazy by Falz, GRINDING a PHOTON weapon, GRINDING a GUN, security fences in Episode 2 triggering off of players, but not off of monsters, materials (eh?), mags (eh?), monsters popping out of the ground, yet leaving no holes behind, yet also not appearing with any sort of dirt on them, no visible battle damage or scars taken from battling, either on monsters or player characters, no bonus damage or damage change done depending on where you hit the enemy (arm, leg, head), lots and lots of other shit.

In the end:
1. Guns being affected by ATP is the least of your worries, from a physics standpoint.
2. How is power affecting guns any different from almost any other RPG in existance? It's not just ST.
3. It's a game in general. Tons of games have no real sense of physics. PSO isn't real life.

[anwserman]

OK, I hate to bring in stuff I learned from college (HORRAY FOR HISTORY OF THEATER>>>SARCASM) but it is a similar sitatuion when it comes to watching a play.

When you're watching a play, you know it is false. Yet, when seeing the actors on the stage, you let yourself believe that the people on stage are really, truely, deepdown experiencing the tradegy, drama, laughter and emotions that they are displaying. You know that when the play is over those characters are gone and the actors/actresses go on with their lives, but for those two hours or so, you let yourself believe it is real... hence why the Catholic religion was so against theater, since in essence they didn't want people to "believe in lies" (its pathetic, really. but that's off-topic.)

Anyway, how it pertains to PSO, you really let yourself believe that the stats affect the gun, because thats how you believe the world works on Ragol.

Comrpehende?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anwserman on 2005-03-17 21:17 ]</font>

[Jonathan_F]

As a RAnger gains levels, it realizes that there are better parts of the body on the enemy to hit. Hitting those parts, it does more damage. There's the answer to your question. This law holds true for any game with a gun/arrow using character.

Ok I guess all other classes count too in this...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jonathan_F on 2005-03-17 22:17 ]</font>

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-03-17 22:16, Jonathan_F wrote:
As a RAnger gains levels, it realizes that there are better parts of the body on the enemy to hit. Hitting those parts, it does more damage. There's the answer to your question. This law holds true for any game with a gun/arrow using character.

Ok I guess all other classes count too in this...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jonathan_F on 2005-03-17 22:17 ]</font>


There's no use explaining it in those terms, because that's what ATA is, not to mention that:

Pow materials, Power units, Power on a mag, Kasami Bracer, etc. wouldn't have that sort of influence, especially so with mats, units, and mag on a lower level character.

Also, this would mean Hucast would be the best in this regard, when it's clearly not.

It's no use trying to make "excuses" for the benefit of ST. Rather, just accept it is how it is, rather than trying to find some make up story to try and explain it (referring to anyone who does that).

[adamgnome104]

Well, since I went to the quest where Rappies could talk, I decided not to care about the physics of the game. >_>

[Bawless]

there not bullets, there photon's which we dont know the physic's of.

[viashino_bey]

this is the most 'logical' explanation that i can think of.

in ragol(or the pso world), things are endowed with amounts of photons, soemthing similar to ki or basic 'energy'. the peopel of the pso world have designed weapons to take advantage of this photon energy. the guns fire photon bullets, the swords' blade is made of photons, and canes have a photon base.

because each person has some amount of photon energy, use of certain weapons require a certain amount of photon energy. whatever weapon you have has a power potential dependign on how strong your photon energy is(a reflection of your inner power, if you will).

killing enemies with these weapons lets you aqquire parts of their photon energy, as well as learning how to hit certain enemies(hypothetically: booms have vulnerable bellies, so hitting them there lets you do more damage, and gives you information on how to hit future enemies) ie: experience.

materials are packets of concentrated photon energy that bonds to your photon energy permantetely. Mags, on the other hand, are exterior representations of energy. because you feed them, level them, etc, they bond to your photon energy, and act as an amplifier.

well there you go http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Meaky]

On 2005-03-17 00:07, Arnot wrote:
"why or even how is it logicaly and physically possibly for Mario to expell balls of fire at his enemies."


Because he's high, how else would you pick up a weed and spit fire? Don't even get me started with him flying..

[Arnot]

On 2005-03-18 14:34, viashino_bey wrote:
this is the most 'logical' explanation that i can think of.

in ragol(or the pso world), things are endowed with amounts of photons, soemthing similar to ki or basic 'energy'. the peopel of the pso world have designed weapons to take advantage of this photon energy. the guns fire photon bullets, the swords' blade is made of photons, and canes have a photon base.

because each person has some amount of photon energy, use of certain weapons require a certain amount of photon energy. whatever weapon you have has a power potential dependign on how strong your photon energy is(a reflection of your inner power, if you will).

killing enemies with these weapons lets you aqquire parts of their photon energy, as well as learning how to hit certain enemies(hypothetically: booms have vulnerable bellies, so hitting them there lets you do more damage, and gives you information on how to hit future enemies) ie: experience.

materials are packets of concentrated photon energy that bonds to your photon energy permantetely. Mags, on the other hand, are exterior representations of energy. because you feed them, level them, etc, they bond to your photon energy, and act as an amplifier.

well there you go http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Damn, for your first post you sure let the bomb drop. Very nice hypothesis, so detailed.

BTW, WELCOME TO THE PSOW FORUMS!!

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-03-18 14:34, viashino_bey wrote:
this is the most 'logical' explanation that i can think of.

in ragol(or the pso world), things are endowed with amounts of photons, soemthing similar to ki or basic 'energy'. the peopel of the pso world have designed weapons to take advantage of this photon energy. the guns fire photon bullets, the swords' blade is made of photons, and canes have a photon base.

because each person has some amount of photon energy, use of certain weapons require a certain amount of photon energy. whatever weapon you have has a power potential dependign on how strong your photon energy is(a reflection of your inner power, if you will).

killing enemies with these weapons lets you aqquire parts of their photon energy, as well as learning how to hit certain enemies(hypothetically: booms have vulnerable bellies, so hitting them there lets you do more damage, and gives you information on how to hit future enemies) ie: experience.

materials are packets of concentrated photon energy that bonds to your photon energy permantetely. Mags, on the other hand, are exterior representations of energy. because you feed them, level them, etc, they bond to your photon energy, and act as an amplifier.

well there you go http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Then there would be no reason for ATA or ATP at all, or any differential between them. And, as has been said, not only PSO does this. A ton of RPGs (basically all of them) work in this way, and don't have photon or anything like that. They don't even bother coming up with excuses for it, they just do it. ST does the same.

The point is that there's no reason to even try and come up with an excuse for why it is that way, or validate it by any means. It's just not something people need to worry about, because it's not some new thing that PSO does.

[PSOphreak3000]

i have another thought on the messed up physics. What about the gobooma that floats on the air when it comes out of the ground in forest 1, then drops to the ground as it starts to move to attack you? did they 4get to add the program that made them not float that high? someone please enlighten me to why this happens
ty

[Shiva91]

It's another PSo WTF moment http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[PSOphreak3000]

I'll say that just scares me sometimes, i think that it's going to fly and run me over

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Frink had this one figured out a while back. ATP is not equivalent to strength. ATP is a more complex value that includes consideration for the might of your weapon, your ability to lift/swing/shoot it, as well as the depth of your knowledge concerning how and where to strike with it. ATA, of course, is your general ability to strike what you intend to.

[HyperShot-X-]

i think the question of this topic arised b/c the basic game physics of PSO seems to be very realistic compared to the real life physics, especially when using melee weapons, IMO, there's no other game that comes close to this in Action/RPG genre, but anywayz the simple explanation wuld be that ST designed this game to have 4 different difficulty lvl fm normal to Ult and char lvl to max at 200, which means the more exp & atp char gains it should do more damage in higher difficulty against higher HP enemies, if there was only 1 difficulty to lvl up all the way to 200 fm area Forest to Ruin, u would have to play the same area over n over to lvl up which reduces replay value, ...hope this makes sense,

[AzureBlaze]

Ah the laws of physics.
Always good for a handy discussion.

Why do guns that fire light rays have recoil?
The yasminkovs should be the only ones recoiling on anyone, that and maybe drill launchers or physical projectile guns. Also, guns that 'kick' should not even make one of those huge RAcasts or HUcasts so much as flinch a finger.

As for the boomas who don't leave holes, that just comes down to game engine power. Having a hole or a 'mole hill' was too hard for DCPSO to handle. We all know they never bothered to make anything much better since then, hence, no holes. I think if they had their pick, we'd have holes and boomas who are on the ground.
Same with combos...they just weren't going to bother to spend that much time to make people actually do different things with each attack or class. Let alone having swords with physical blades (edged with photon or not) actually 'stop' upon impact would've been too hard. They never fixed the engine up, so we're left with shifty physics, and CARD monsters who face the wrong way when attacking.

As for why we ask, and if it is just a game, we are the fans and that...is practically our job. It's the same reason people complain. No one would complain if no one cared. No one would think about such things as this if we were not fans. It's the extra things, the application of what you enjoy outside, to what you enjoy inside PSO (or any game you really like) that makes them all so wonderful.

[Elshlog]

stop trying to make sense of stuff. your like my grandma trying to figure out how there can be fire underwater on the Spongebob Squarepants movie

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-03-19 21:32, AzureBlaze wrote:

As for the boomas who don't leave holes, that just comes down to game engine power. Having a hole or a 'mole hill' was too hard for DCPSO to handle. We all know they never bothered to make anything much better since then, hence, no holes. I think if they had their pick, we'd have holes and boomas who are on the ground.
Same with combos...they just weren't going to bother to spend that much time to make people actually do different things with each attack or class. Let alone having swords with physical blades (edged with photon or not) actually 'stop' upon impact would've been too hard. They never fixed the engine up, so we're left with shifty physics, and CARD monsters who face the wrong way when attacking.



Again, that's not different from any other game that has these sorts of problems. I'm sure the game makers would have done it some other way that'd be more realistic if that was their choice, but sometimes, indeed, the capabilities of the systems come into play. That's why it's not worth it to try and find out why things are the way they are.

Combos and animations and such are generally exactly the same as you play through a game doing the same moves in other games as well... but that wasn't the point. The point was that there are so many things unrealistic concerning these sorts of things, that one or two of them isn't really some unexpected or freakish manner of handling it.

All in all, it's a rather pointless thing to spend time on thinking about... not that I'm meaning this topic is completely pointless, but there's just so many other things in general that are just "wrong" that it's unusual to just point out a singular thing... especially something that's not even new to PSO to begin with, and has been a hole in tons of games long before this... ah well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-03-20 19:53 ]</font>

[PhotonDrop]

Mix, whether or not this happened in other games before PSO or if people's brain power is wasted trying to figure out why things like this happens is irrelevant, stop bringing it up.

But yeah, enemy corpses go away because of small things like the engine not being able to handle it and pure laziness. ATP is more like how well you use the weapon and the lighter weapons have more accuracy just for the sake of balancing out the game.

Something I'd like to know is what a Monomate is >_>;

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-03-20 21:04, PhotonDrop wrote:
Mix, whether or not this happened in other games before PSO or if people's brain power is wasted trying to figure out why things like this happens is irrelevant, stop bringing it up.

1. It's not about whether it happened in other games. It's about it happening in basically all games. Also, each time I brought it up, it was about something different, so I'm not necessarily just broken recording it.
2. I never said people's brain power is wasted on it, please, don't put words in my mouth. It can be fun to make up theories and such and have fun with it, but really... a lot of the theories are broken recording as well, just worded differently. I'll admit I did repeat a bit more than I should have, but whether it looks like it or not, I did reference them seperately, not just merely repeating the same thing over and over... although I can understand how it can look that way. Anyways... http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif real reason why I posted:




Something I'd like to know is what a Monomate is >_>;



Yeah I was interested in this before, and looked it up to see if there was an alternate meaning for "mate" that might not be as readily known.

ma?t? Audio pronunciation of "mate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m? m?)
n.

1. A South American evergreen tree (Ilex paraguariensis) widely cultivated for its leaves, which are used to prepare a tealike beverage.
2. A tealike beverage, popular in South America, made from the dried leaves of this plant. Also called Paraguay tea, yerba mat?


Also, atomizer:
A device for converting a substance, especially a perfume or medicine, to a fine spray.

Moon is moon, sol is sun, star is star.
Mono, di, tri is just a counting system used in the game itself, but you know what it's based off of.
Scape Doll refers to a scapegoat, or in this case, something that takes the death for you. I think they had something named something like Scape Doll in Wild Arms as well, but been a while since I've played that.

[viashino_bey]

i was reading a fanfic which assumed that mono/di/tri mates are packets of nano-machines that repair body parts... i think its a good theory.

fluids would be similar to energy drinks, but restore spiritual vitality

atomizers.. well..they're.. ..i dunno http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[olgaflow999]

On 2005-03-16 22:00, Xaos127 wrote:
Its a game...


Sometimes it's bad to make a video game too realistic.Just think for a moment.If the guns had
the same impact regardless of ur ATP,then they would be weak as hell after you get to a new mode or something like that.