Defense vs Evasion

[Ice_ryu]

I noticed that a lot of the armors that have high defensive atributes, have very very very low low evasion. So here my question. What is better, high defense or higher evasion. Lets say I put a Spiritual Shield n front of you vs a DBs Shield. True that you gain 17 defense but you lose 120 evasion equipting the rare. Is evasion that unimportant or are some of the rare shilds just not worth it. Compare also the Spritual Shiel to like the Secret Gear. Huge cutoffs on the evasion side.

[Neith]

Personal preference for me is DFP>EVP. When you get to Ultimate, you dont tend to block a great deal, which is what EVP is for. DFP cuts down the damage you take from melee, so I see it as more useful. Blocking seems to have a longer animation than getting hit as well http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif so getting hit is better I guess, obviously not too much though. My HUcaseal blocks quite a bit, but send her to Ult Ruins, and the Arlans act like she has no EVP at all... So, yeah, I prefer DFP (hence my HUney using a Standstill Shield)

[Evil_Althena8]

Hands down DFP is better than EVP. Evasion won't really matter when you're entering new territory/difficulties at lower levels. Defense will always be dependable. Some classes at higher levels, particularly RAmarl, HUney, FOnewearl, and HUcaseal have such high evasion that its useful for going back and say...doing forest runs on Ultimate.

Oh...and Secret Gear is one of the best Barriers to have esp. for a force below lvl 100.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Evil_Althena8 on 2005-03-18 11:56 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

EVP.

You get enough DFP as it is.

[Fefnir]

I think DFP is better than EVP...

Sure, EVP can be great when going one on one with a single monster, but when you're surrounded? The time it takes to block one or two attacks from one monster will allow others to surround you until you can't move. And once you're totally surrounded, there is no way of getting out without being damaged for a great deal.

And plus, if you're a skilled player, you should be able to watch the movement patterns of the monsters and avoid them actually hitting you. Once you learn that, EVP renders useless. Though it is a bit hard sometimes...

...And I don't think EVP even affects bosses, does it?

[Shiva91]

On 2005-03-18 12:39, Fefnir wrote:
I think DFP is better than EVP...

Sure, EVP can be great when going one on one with a single monster, but when you're surrounded? The time it takes to block one or two attacks from one monster will allow others to surround you until you can't move. And once you're totally surrounded, there is no way of getting out without being damaged for a great deal.

And plus, if you're a skilled player, you should be able to watch the movement patterns of the monsters and avoid them actually hitting you. Once you learn that, EVP renders useless. Though it is a bit hard sometimes...

...And I don't think EVP even affects bosses, does it?






I agree, It seems like when you get hit
1. a moment of invincibility (ugh to big to spell O_o )
2. its easier to move around afterwards.

when you block, you have no reaction time and you keep blocking, it gets annoying real quick.

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/panda.gif

[Fanta]

I would go with UrikoBB3

Like Skorpius said you get enough DEF as it is but EVP doesnt seem to do that much in Ult.

However, since the Skorpius is Lv 150 and up with most of his characters so I can see why...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fanta on 2005-03-18 12:48 ]</font>

[Ice_ryu]

but when you block you dont lose any HP

[Shiva91]

yea but you don't slow down either, when you get hit you can attack right away. When you block you stall and have to wait a minute to attack. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif You can't block everything.

[Skorpius]

I bet people are going to say DFP, and call on "DFP Blocking", which hasn't been proven yet. ;l

I actually had a theory about the relationship between HP, DFP, and EVP, but because no one could grasp the concept of simple algebra, and just lashed out at me because they couldn't understand it, I debunked it from testing.

The theory stated that there's an EVP "window" that will allow you to block when a certain amount of damage is given to you. This reasoning surfaced to to me being able to take 0 damage, but not block, from a hit which pretty much disproved "DFP Blocking". But, because of many peopel being stubborn, and not taking the time to think about it, the topic turned into a flame war (pretty much no one even thought about it, and just flamed the shit out of me) and it was locked and forgotten.

This "window" was determined by your EVP, and DFP would reduce attack damage and cause the attacks to fall into this window. The problem with testing this is that there are SO many unknown variables, such as possible enemy abilities (fixed damage), multiple attacks per enemy (Booma type enemies have two attacks, maybe the stronger attack ignores EVP all together), and enemy ATA (which is another theory/equation alltogether.


If you want EVP, go for it. If not, leave it alone. Basically, there's no clear answer, no matter what anyone tells you. Anyone who says otherwise is a jackass.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-03-18 13:00 ]</font>

[sviatgabor]

On 2005-03-18 12:42, Shiva91 wrote:


On 2005-03-18 12:39, Fefnir wrote:
I think DFP is better than EVP...

Sure, EVP can be great when going one on one with a single monster, but when you're surrounded? The time it takes to block one or two attacks from one monster will allow others to surround you until you can't move. And once you're totally surrounded, there is no way of getting out without being damaged for a great deal.

And plus, if you're a skilled player, you should be able to watch the movement patterns of the monsters and avoid them actually hitting you. Once you learn that, EVP renders useless. Though it is a bit hard sometimes...

...And I don't think EVP even affects bosses, does it?






I agree, It seems like when you get hit
1. a moment of invincibility (ugh to big to spell O_o )
2. its easier to move around afterwards.

when you block, you have no reaction time and you keep blocking, it gets annoying real quick.

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/panda.gif



In ultimate forest my fonewm gets whopped. What I do is when I get hit I know I can cast two RAs. When you cast the first RA tech or any other tech the enemy/enemies WILL miss, 100%. If you are fast enough with casting the second tech, it will hit the enemy right before you get hit by it/them. Rinse, repeat.

[Mixfortune]

As most of what I do is offline mode, I can give some suggestions on that. Online, I can't really help there.

First of all, saying EVP is useless if you can avoid being attacked doesn't help its argument against DFP, since that's also only active if you get hit as well.

Lower levels, yes, EVP is not as useful, since you'd be boosting something that will still fail you most of the time anyways, whereas DFP at least cuts down on how much you get slaughtered, if you get hit at all.

Offline, once you get to a certain point, the lines are blurred. Your DFP is likely so high that you'll take little damage, and your EVP is so high that you block everything. However, if you're surrounded with DFP, getting hit gives you a time when you cannot be hit, to at least pull off a hit or two... whereas if you're surrounded with EVP, you get block stunned.

In this case, for equipment, DFP seems to beat out EVP.

However, if you carry around support techs, you can manipulate your ATP and DFP, as well as their appropriate use when called (strengthening your ATP and DFP, while weakening enemy ATP and DFP... enemy's weaker ATP helps your DFP). Since you can manipulate those values by support techs, you may not have to rely as much on natural barrier and frame DFP stats, and instead put a bit into EVP, where you cannot boost it with support. If you need both DFP and EVP for your playstyle, and have support techs, getting a piece with more EVP may be more suitable for you.

In this case, for equipment, EVP seems to beat out DFP.

Online, I would think that EVP may be more useful than offline, since... if you're going to get hit stunned, you might as well get block stunned. The "no grace period" for damage online seems to make EVP a more viable choice, and again, if online you're likely to have good support techs, even possibly mag combo S&D, again returning to the point about support techs.

Of course, as you reach higher levels, you'll find out what works for you, so a lot of this is about those low 100s and such.

And EVP doesn't work against bosses as I recall, although in DC I remember blocking the dragon when it fell on me http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Tancient]

I've blocked the Temple boss and the dragon with my EVP as my FOnewearl a few times on GC. I saw it work ONCE with a ranged attack, though that might've been a fluke.

[Ketchup345]

Blocking bosses is possible, it just depends on the attack used, much like how DFP is near useless for many boss attacks.

DFP can be a curse too, since it may prevent you from getting knocked down if you are surrounded by a horde of enemies and don't have any Telepipes with you.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-03-18 14:12, Tancient wrote:
I've blocked the Temple boss and the dragon with my EVP as my FOnewearl a few times on GC. I saw it work ONCE with a ranged attack, though that might've been a fluke.



Okay, so it works on GC as well. I must've just not noticed because I generally stayed far enough away near the point where I had the EVP for it anyways.

But yeah, blocking the dragon was fun http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Ryna]

When you are at a low level, having a lot of DFP can be a big help. It gives you a chance of living in places where you shouldn't really be yet. After you reach a certain point though, having a large amount of DFP can be a real curse. For example, the Gal Gryphon isn't that hard of a boss when you are low-leveled. Most its attacks will simply knock you down. However, when you combine a lot of HP and DFP on the Gal Gryphon, most of his attacks become one-hit kills. A high leveled player usually has to take off their shield/armor so they will be knocked over the when the Gal Gryphon runs over him/her. This is also a problem when you are surrounded by a large group of enemies. At a low level, you will fall down and you can pipe out. When you reach that magic tipping point where you do not fall down, you will be hacked to death and be unable to set a pipe.

[kazuma56]

I say DFP, the thing about EVP is, once you get a God/Battle, it's render useless in most areas (probably barring mines and maybe Seabed), DFP is always helpful, which is one of the reasons why I think RAmarls have the most pointless stat to excel in.

[Akulamenuri]

Depends on the area as well as the team.

If you are in an area such as Seabeds and you know that regardless of how much evasion your shield gives you, your not going to be deflecting any attacks, then the obvious choice would be to pick a shield with defense.

If your in an area in which your Evasion is high enough to deflect a decent amount of attacks then go with the shield with the most evasion increase.

Basically what im saying is that if you have enough evasion to deflect attacks in that area pump up evasion, if you dont have enough evasion to deflect attacks in that area pump up the defense.

*Not getting hit is always better than getting hit.