Hall of Cheaters?

[Chibi_Neo]

Well, obviously, if you realize that I'm posting in the Cheaters forum, you anticipate an "I hate cheaters" perspective in this post. And you're right.

I know that the cheating online isn't exactly possible to stop, but is there a way we can compile a list of characters that have been witnessed cheating? A printable list of characters to stay away from, lest one wanted to be FSODed...? I ask this because I've absolutely fed up with the FSODing and the use of Boss Story Characters in Ep III.

The way I figure, if a list of cheaters were to be made, anyone would know who to stay away from to avoid FSODing. And if the cheaters were to make more characters, those would be reported and added to the list, so they'd have to make more characters, starting from the very beginning. It'd be like a war of attrition, basically; the cheaters would eventually give up or stop. I know it's rather more of a longshot, but I believe it's better than nothing.

I apologize wholeheartedly if this idea has been presented before.

[RoninJoku]

As long as they have the ability to continuously make new level 1 characters... We will never be able to make a list of who not to trust... it would probably be much more effective to compile a list of who's can be trusted... http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Mixfortune]

There's multiple problems with this.

.As has been stated, you cannot go by player names. They can created different characters, etc.

.Someone can pretend to be someone else in order to give them grief. Let's say someone wants to get back at, for example, me. So they make a character named Rina Noriko and start messing with people. Someone sees it and gets Rina Noriko added to the list. Someone looks at the list and says "Hey, I'll make sure to stay away from Rina Noriko then!" And guess what happens to me.

.As far as FSOD goes, most of the time even if you see someone who is a known FSOD'er, it's too late, and you may not have enough time to take appropriate actions to defend yourself (moving to another lobby, etc.)

.Such a list will be a complete and utter flame magnet on the forums, as many people will not be able to contain their childish behavior long enough to avoid arguments.

.This site does not attempt to alienate those who cheat, people can say they use cheats, hacks, etc., but when people start telling others how to hack or exploit glitches, or advertise dupe giveaways, etc., then action is taken. Having such a list suggested here will create that alienation, which this site doesn't really need.


The negatives greatly outweigh the potential positives in this case. While it may be a good idea in theory (and if we were actually affiliated with PSO or ST), it just wouldn't pan out on this sort of forum. It's too tempting of a tool for members to start making asses of themselves, legit or not.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-04-06 23:51 ]</font>

[RedSchwar]

This site does not attempt to alienate those who cheat

I think that needs to be changed.

What's better. More users or GOOD users? If you guys started cracking down on this, and made an example of some cheaters, perhaps it would make other players realize that cheating DOES cause harm to the game.

Also, I don't feel any player that's a cheater is responsible enough to be a moderator on this board. You guys could at least set a good example. I don't know for sure if any of the mods here DO cheat, but if they do, perhaps they need to think about the example that sets for other players.

Where could I go to ask about reviewing this policy?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RedSchwar on 2005-04-07 01:36 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

No where, because no one truely cares anymore.

[RedSchwar]

Well, I care.

I don't like posting alongside cheaters.

Suppose I make a plea to a cheater, and let him know how his cheating is affecting my game negatively, and he continues to cheat. Then suppose he comes here and posts on this board. Do you think I want to be in the prescence of such an inconsiderate person?

When a person fails to show consideration and care to the rules that they initially agreed to follow (also known as BREAKING A CONTRACT or LYING), it shows a lack of virtue. I don't understand how a "small lie" is not a bad lie.

[Mixfortune]

PSOW is not connected to PSO.
PSOW has rules, and PSO has rules. Those rules are not the same.
If you can't live with that, make your own forum, with your own rules.

And this has nothing to do with "unwillingness to change", so don't even bother using that as an argument. The rules are as such for a reason, and it does not need to be justified. Read the FORUM rules and see for yourself.

[RedSchwar]

Yeah, but shouldn't you guys always be trying to make your site the best it can be?

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-07 02:19, RedSchwar wrote:
Yeah, but shouldn't you guys always be trying to make your site the best it can be?



"Best" is subjective.
There are members who are a great part of the FORUM community that, under what you may considering cheaters, function quite fine.
It's not so much "cheaters and legits", but more like "good members and assholes". The two groups are seperate. You can have a cheater that's a good member of the forums, a legit that's a good member of the forums, a cheater that's an asshole, and a legit that's an asshole.

Of course, I'm using asshole as a looser term, there's various factors to consider, obviously.

[RedSchwar]

It's easy for someone to act like a nice person when they're stomping all over your face on PSO with cheats.

It makes them feel good about themselves. Exactly how this makes them "good board members" is beyond me.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-07 02:29, RedSchwar wrote:
It's easy for someone to act like a nice person when they're stomping all over your face on PSO with cheats.

It makes them feel good about themselves. Exactly how this makes them "good board members" is beyond me.



Because there's more on the forum than just PSO.
Again, the forums have no connection to the game itself, and generally the cheaters online that are asses and come here end up being asses here as well, makes it a lot easier to deal with them effectively. And if they don't cause trouble on the boards... well, all the better right?

[Maridia]

Theoretically, they should. However, as once stated, this site doesn't have the same rules. It's like the teams. They aren't affiliated with PSOW and they aren't endorsed. ;P While from a moral perspective, you could say the site should alienate the cheaters, but then you start bringing the whole "omg wuts cheating defined as" to the table, and in the end, the site won't alienate anyone.

For good or for worse, this is a site about straight up PSO content. It won't accept people endorsing cheating, but it's not going to grab the known ones by the ear and drag them to the door, telling them "FOR SHAME!" It's a pointless battle to be fighting. Even if it's important to you. Really, I can't say anything else without repeating Mix and Skorp. Congrats for trying to stand up for what you believe in, but that's just getting too much for the site to bother with. If you don't like it here, which I assume you do, then you should probably go find forums that meet your standards. Or make them. And be happy for awhile.

Until the cheaters show up again and you don't know it. *shrugs* Good luck with this one, Schwar. You say a lot of things that I think need to be said sometimes, but unfortunately can't ever get the kind of answers or responses you'd like. :/

[Mixfortune]

Maridia does bring up a good point, you aren't necessarily flawed or wrong in your views, RedSchwar.
Generally, the issue that would be the biggest would be that such a list would be a major flame magnet. And even legits can have a disregard for forum rules (flaming, etc.)

But yeah, it'd generally be more harm than good to the forum community to just ban everyone who's ever touched a hack or dupe... and then there comes more grey lines (some even consider playing in a team where if a single hack/dupe user kills a single booma, you're no longer legit... it sounds like a silly extreme but some do believe that).

[SLON]

A lot of the information contained on this website has come from hacking; if you consider yourself to be 100 % legitimate, then you should not be using any of the guides on this website.
Redschwar, considering you are so against cheating, I wonder what you are doing in the Cheaters section at all.
There's a big difference between someone FSoding you on-line, and someone providing you with a drop-rate chart. I have no time for the former, but I'm really glad for the latter.

[Superguppie]

I have no desire for a Hall of Shame. Some cheaters may actualy like the attention of having their name in the list of major assholes. They are best left unnamed and forgotten.
On top of that, last time someone I didn't know entered the lobby I was in, I selected Quit quiker than I had thought possible. The paranoia is strong enough to keep me from getting caught by those assholes most of the time. No need to know who they are, and too bad for the newbies that might have become my friends.

Oh, and if you really manage to get the names of the morons, report them to Sega. If enough people do that the list of active irritators should be short and changing rapidly anyway.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Superguppie on 2005-04-07 06:51 ]</font>

[RedSchwar]

I've tunred in over 15 complaints and I've never seen a banning result from any of them. ST doesn't even read them.

[Solstis]

Well, I guess we'll be saying goodbye to me. I mean, I did use duped and hack weapons in the past.

Man, I suck.


Let me pack up these drop charts that were accessed via "cheating" as well.

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Maridia]

There needs to be a support group for people who accidently used dupes or accidently played with someone who used dupes. Because breathing the same magical pso AIR as something duped automatically makes you a cheater. I think I'm going to cry. ;.;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Maridia on 2005-04-08 03:00 ]</font>

[Superguppie]

On 2005-04-07 17:04, RedSchwar wrote:
I've tunred in over 15 complaints and I've never seen a banning result from any of them. ST doesn't even read them.

I can only speak for EU, as that is where I am. The last 5 mails I sent to Sega all got an answer. 3 of them were about specific FSOD incidents. Each time I was told the person was banned at least temporarily. Not only in the reply, but also by other players online. As far as I can tell reporting does work. Especialy if more than one report is received for the same incident.

If Sega really doesn't respond, make sure that as many people as possible complain. Fill their mailboxes with complaints. Maybe they will respond, just for the sake of not having a mailbox filled to the limit...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Superguppie on 2005-04-08 04:20 ]</font>

[TheOneHero]

On 2005-04-07 02:02, RedSchwar wrote:
I make a plea to a cheater, and let him know how his cheating is affecting my game negatively,



Ever think your bitching effects our gameplay negatively?

[Chibi_Neo]

I guess I should have thought this over a little more. I just wish there was something that could be done about this... infestation, if you will, of damned cheaters. It's too frustrating for me to handle.

[SquashDemon]

On 2005-04-07 17:35, Solstis wrote:
Well, I guess we'll be saying goodbye to me. I mean, I did use duped and hack weapons in the past.

Man, I suck.


Let me pack up these drop charts that were accessed via "cheating" as well.

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


thank you!
thats my point of view as well
and ST does do stuff about cheaters, even in US servers...of course, most of the time I play on JPN ships...but the only thing I really care about is FSOD, whoever's idea that was is gon-ok ok calm calm...I can't say stuff like that here...but anyways, dupes/hacks? meh wutever, I dont care they're just some stupid strands of data after all...
does this make me a cheater?
not at all, just because I use these items doesn't mean I made them, or that I conciously know if they're legit or not. I'd even go so far as to say that everyone who has recived more than 5 weps from another online user has owned a duped item. ok I'm done now,</rambling>

[Ice_ryu]

There are so many people out there cheating, its impossible to not play with them since most of the ligits password protect there games anyways. I say as long as they are not FSODING or causing 3000 damage with every hit who cares? Now those super cheating taking 3000 damage from enemies, or FSODING, that just isnt fun.

I am a cheater myself I guess. I cant dupe, hack, AR, or FSOD, but I know three of my weapons are dupes traded to me, and I will continue to use them since they dont make me super, ok just a little.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ice_ryu on 2005-04-18 11:15 ]</font>

[slimster]

Yeah but is duping really cheating?I mean you found something cool and you take full power of it. I have many rare items that I duped for others and got good feed back.Though I can understand the problem. Other things like AR is down right cheating.But duping is a mistake ST made. Its a bug that does not affect stats except for equiping the item(s). But in no condition will I ever scam, trick, or do any of the other guys do because I am not the type to do so. I mind my business when I play online.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: slimster on 2005-04-18 18:40 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: slimster on 2005-04-18 18:43 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: slimster on 2005-04-18 18:59 ]</font>

[RedSchwar]

Yes, duping is cheating.

The ToS says you're not supposed to take advantage of glitches found.

[slimster]

I bet that most items out in the game were one way or another duped,hacked,what ever. Sad to say I contributed. Luckly the people I duped for had no plans for online use. As for me, I stopped with duping a few months ago because I have what I need. But as I stated before, I mind my business when online.

[Simply-Jay]

Shit, I guessed I got tired of sitting to the side.

I want to know why you hate cheaters so much, aside from hackers. Does it make you mad that someone plays the game differently? Because in my case I don't go running around with uberweapons and dealing 2500 damage or so. I'm a duper, and so what? Do you not like me because I'm not legit? Thats like getting mad at someone for putting the blood code in for Mortal Kombat I, because they aren't playing the game the way it should be! If sega doesn't want us to exploit their glitches, maybe they should keep the game a little more secure, and not let little cracks like this slip out. I mean, I know what I'm doing is against what Sega states, but it's bound to happen, someone's always going to breach Sega. Its not what I hope for, but It always happens. Ever since I picked up the controller to play PSO back in the DC days, I'm sure I was never 100% legit. Atleast until I reached Online Mode. I learned my lessons for screwing with GS and shit, but why did I do it? I didn't do it to harm anyone else, I wanted to reach level 100. I don't know what to tell you if you plan on playing PSOGC without a glance at atleast one 'illegit' player. If you really hate non-legits that much, then play offline. Otherwise, in my case, if you don't bother me, I won't bother you. Even better because I have stopped duping for commercial purposes. I only dupe to back-up my items. I'm now somewhat of legit online. But don't get me wrong, I'm not throwing out a damn thing. You just won't catch me online with the bad stuff, I save that for multi-player nights. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Hackers, though, are a different story. I don't stand anywhere when it comes to them. I know some hackers who are great guys, and some who are all out assholes. But of course in my line of PSO Playing, who hasn't seen their fair share of hackers?


Anyways, I don't care if anyone chooses to flame me for my decisions. Because like a certain person a few posts ahead said, There are also asshole legits, and cool legits, as well as Ass-hole cheaters, and Cool cheaters. T'you for listening to the new guy on his first post. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

PS: Is it just me, or I also recalled you aren't supposed to abuse any players in any form, and for all those legits who chewed me out in the lobby when I did nothing to them.. *Shakes fist* How about that?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xoxry on 2005-04-19 16:46 ]</font>

[slimster]

I agree to a certain point. I know all the gliches out there, some I've seen and others I didn't, but what the last guy said is true,who cares if someone cheated, hell I cheated too in the past, big deal. Just don't play with cheaters.

[digigram]

Even though I don't play anymore. I'd say as long as someone admitted honestly to cheating or being legit and ACTUALLY were what they said.. who cares.

I'm more against the legit players that question every single thing you have down to a LV5 Mark III and cheaters that claim to be legit, no matter how obvious.

More against the liars and dumb bitches than either cheating or legitimate players.

Most of the time I can tell when someone is a liar when someone comes into a room and says "R U LagiT? I am" then spams Legit pictures and shortcuts and stupid sayings.

*watches the person whip out a Tsumikiri J sword at Lv 10*

[slimster]

Yeah, the ligit players shouldn't be complaining in the first place... its just a game. Poeple play differently than others and cheating is one of those ways. It makes them feel good about the game, it makes them keep coming back.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-20 13:30, slimster wrote:
Yeah, the ligit players shouldn't be complaining in the first place... its just a game. Poeple play differently than others and cheating is one of those ways. It makes them feel good about the game, it makes them keep coming back.



It's when it either compromises others or damages others that most care. There's people that wish to remain legit, just as there are those who wish to cheat. "Cheaters" just tend to "ruin" legitimate players a lot more than "legits" "ruin" cheating players.

Also, if someone does or has something that is obviously cheating, or rather, not legitimate, but claims they are legit, whether intentionally or not, people tend to correct them, and to prevent their image of their legitness being shattered, defend it.

Most of the legit complaints you speak of are taken from these things:

-Players who use or have cheats and claim to be legit.
-The destructive kind of hacks that, naturally, end up destroying legits a lot more than average cheaters.
-Just plain violations of the ToS. Most don't really carry it this far, as they just wish to be out of personal harm, but technically cheating is against the ToS, and people can use that to complain if they so wish.

Just because people play that way, doesn't make it acceptable by ST, necessarily.

As for PSOW, well, for the most part doesn't care what happens in-game. Here, let's see if I can make an analogy from your quote...


Yeah, the posters shouldn't be complaining in the first place... its just a forum. Poeple type and post differently than others and random spamming and flaming are some of those ways. It makes them feel good about themselves on the forum, it makes them keep coming back.


Could be better, but hope the point is made.

[slimster]

People say "Rules are meant to be broken" which is true if you think about it because nobody is perfect and trying to perfect yourself brings you down further. But I do understand that people cheat to hurt others or do that FSOD thing, thats because they are losers and about me, I cheat once in a while for personal benefit, not to hurn others. I hope that clears up a few things about me.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: slimster on 2005-04-20 17:17 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: slimster on 2005-04-20 17:18 ]</font>

[Sacred_One]

I don't really care if there are cheaters in games. As long they play equally and fair.

[slimster]

Wow, I'm very sorry to get off topic but you know that FSOD thing right? Well someone on there own site put up "How to FSOD online". Go figure, more and more are being a$$holes because more and more know how to use it.

WARNING: Be more careful when playing online.

So much for playing fair...

[Simply-Jay]

I'm afraid it's happening.. PSO GC is starting to crumble. I'm not suprised at all, it always happens when Sega tries a faint attempt at making a second variation of the game, which they try to patch everything up, but it leaves EVEN more holes. I say in a matter of months after Blue Burst picks up, they're going to drop PSOGC, and possibly PSO Xbox as well. Speaking of which, Microsoft did a great job at keeping Online play into it's own hands, otherwise it would be in the same stages as Gamecube. Sure, Xbox has FSOD problems, but Xbox FSOD is alot easier to cope with (There are ways around losing your stuff. 90% Effective http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif) I wished to be able to play PSO GC before the servers went beserk, but I'm too late. But don't get me wrong, I'm not going to quit out on Gamecube, I'll still fight to get online. I'm still rooting for ST to find a way, and I'm hoping PSO DC only fell because of the demise of Dreamcast itself.. But hey, its a whole new system, and knowing Nintendo, they'll never quit out on their customers, its ST that we'll have to consider.


I dunno if that was off-topic OR WHAT.. LOL!

[Superguppie]

On 2005-04-20 17:54, slimster wrote:
WARNING: Be more careful when playing online.

Even more careful?
Due to the morons picking up on FSOD my friends and me have been going through some very elaborate rituals when getting online, just to avoid it. The one time we forget to lock a team or have to be in the lobby a little longer than a run for the counter we get FSODed. And that's on EU ships that are so empty I can't imagine it being of any interest to an asshole. Last time a newby dropped by, 3 of use immediately hit Quit. The paranoia is complete. This is lunacy!


On 2005-04-20 18:10, xoxry wrote:
I'm afraid it's happening.. PSO GC is starting to crumble. I'm not suprised at all, it always happens when Sega tries a faint attempt at making a second variation of the game, which they try to patch everything up, but it leaves EVEN more holes. I say in a matter of months after Blue Burst picks up, they're going to drop PSOGC, and possibly PSO Xbox as well. Speaking of which, Microsoft did a great job at keeping Online play into it's own hands, otherwise it would be in the same stages as Gamecube. Sure, Xbox has FSOD problems, but Xbox FSOD is alot easier to cope with (There are ways around losing your stuff. 90% Effective http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif) I wished to be able to play PSO GC before the servers went beserk, but I'm too late. But don't get me wrong, I'm not going to quit out on Gamecube, I'll still fight to get online. I'm still rooting for ST to find a way, and I'm hoping PSO DC only fell because of the demise of Dreamcast itself.. But hey, its a whole new system, and knowing Nintendo, they'll never quit out on their customers, its ST that we'll have to consider.

I dunno if that was off-topic OR WHAT.. LOL!


I know I will move to BB when it finaly arrives to EU. At least I will be able to spend time in the lobby and play in open teams again. Meet new people and make new friends, just like I made the ones I have on PSO now.
And it could take a while before the GC servers are turned off. The JP and EU servers for DC are still up! And playing there is free too...
That PSO/XBox is better is not because MS is keeping it clean, but because XBox has a hard disk. That makes it updatable so the worst of the bugs can be patched. GMs may help a bit though.

[slimster]

Why doesn't ST reboot the servers? It can filter and clean any unwanted bugs.

[Sacred_One]

It won't work...

[Jive18]

I'm in the same boat with you xoxry, I've been wishing to play online at least once for the last year. It's seems unfortunately that I'm way too late for a party that has been breaking up for months. It really is sad to see PSOGC going nowhere.

That's the problem with online games, they die. Yet offline PSO will live on long after and no one will be able to enjoy it, if the game is still enjoyable by then.

I hate feeling sorry for myself, but online looked so great when I watched my friends play http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif.

[Getintothegame]

On 2005-05-09 19:37, Jive18 wrote:
I'm in the same boat with you xoxry, I've been wishing to play online at least once for the last year. It's seems unfortunately that I'm way too late for a party that has been breaking up for months. It really is sad to see PSOGC going nowhere.

That's the problem with online games, they die. Yet offline PSO will live on long after and no one will be able to enjoy it, if the game is still enjoyable by then.

I hate feeling sorry for myself, but online looked so great when I watched my friends play http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif.



You know how I feel. But understand that times change, some for better others not. And I believe that most of the decline of Gamecube was due to Cheaters and ST not trying to stop it.

Anyway, if I were you, I'd look into PSO Blue Burst.

[Plagarius]

On 2005-04-06 19:56, Chibi_Neo wrote:
Well, obviously, if you realize that I'm posting in the Cheaters forum, you anticipate an "I hate cheaters" perspective in this post. And you're right.

I know that the cheating online isn't exactly possible to stop, but is there a way we can compile a list of characters that have been witnessed cheating? A printable list of characters to stay away from, lest one wanted to be FSODed...? I ask this because I've absolutely fed up with the FSODing and the use of Boss Story Characters in Ep III.

The way I figure, if a list of cheaters were to be made, anyone would know who to stay away from to avoid FSODing. And if the cheaters were to make more characters, those would be reported and added to the list, so they'd have to make more characters, starting from the very beginning. It'd be like a war of attrition, basically; the cheaters would eventually give up or stop. I know it's rather more of a longshot, but I believe it's better than nothing.

I apologize wholeheartedly if this idea has been presented before.

I am very sorry about your predicament with FSOD's but there are too many FSODERs to stop.We wont have time to memorize a whole list of people we cant trust.It just wont work.I apologize if I offended you. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/pandatummy.gif

[Nohra]

WAIT WAIT WAIT
Wait. Wait.

Wait.

...this isn't my Batman cup. u.u

That aside.

IT'S A MOTHERFUCKIN' VIDEO GAME.

Here's what you do. Go to one of the three US servers that has next to no people on it. SM your friends. Bring them along.

OH MY GOD HOW HARD WAS THAT?! HOLY SHIT!! IT'S AMAZING!

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

Don't bump this again. It's rotten garbage.