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Infiniteque
Jul 26, 2005, 11:01 AM
This is something I've always been confused about. The subject of video game exclusivity.

I understand that SEGA/Sonic Team selected the PlayStation 2 as the platform for Phantasy Star Universe on the grounds that the PS2's installed userbase is the largest, and they want this game to be more recognized than Phantasy Star Online. This makes perfect sense, and I can't argue this point--I also think that it's a crying shame that PSO is not more popular.

However. I don't understand why SEGA/Sonic Team didn't just port PSO to PS2, GC and XBox in the first place. Furthermore, this brings me to my initial point:

Why in the world don't they just have PSU come out for PC, PS2, XBox and GC? I've gotta go to lunch, I'll be back later.

PJ
Jul 26, 2005, 11:13 AM
Development might be hard to make it for all 3 consoles... although I'd much prefer it to be multiplatform rather than stealing Saiffy's PS2 >.>;

And... wouldn't it look better on GC/XBox? Just a point.

Nash
Jul 26, 2005, 11:37 AM
PS2 is very different architecture from GC/Xbox, Yuji Naka commented on the difficulties of porting the original PSO to it. DC was much closer to GC/Xbox, so I think that's why it went to them. For PSU it looks obvious that they've built a new engine from the ground up.

As for PSU only being on PS2 and PC, well I don't think they have much alternative really! It's broadband only, so it would be pointless to bring it out on GC because of how few people have the broadband adaptor and the lack of support Nintendo have shown to online in general

And Xbox Live is a closed network, which I don't think Sonic Team have ever liked. With PSU you will have PS2 users playing against PC users, creating a much bigger community. The Xbox version would have to be seperate from all that, which combined with the small userbase in Japan probably doesn't make an Xbox version very worthwhile to Sonic Team.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nash on 2005-07-26 09:39 ]</font>

Infiniteque
Jul 26, 2005, 11:39 AM
Back from lunch, so now I have more time to elaborate on what I wanted to say.

"Development might be hard to make it for all 3 consoles... although I'd much prefer it to be multiplatform rather than stealing Saiffy's PS2 >.>;

And... wouldn't it look better on GC/XBox? Just a point."

I'm aware that the problem lies within getting different platforms to all run the same game equally, provided the hardware differences. However, they have [online] PC games running on tons of different kinds of PC hardware, and if they put form the effort, I'm sure they could manage to have PSU running on each console without many problems since console hardware is guaranteed to be the same (ie: every XBox is the same, every GC is the same, every PS2 is the same versus the myriad of different PCs out there).

And yeah, GC/XBox would look a whole lot better than PS2. To be honest, I'd like for PSU to be a Nintendo Revolution title..

Infiniteque
Jul 26, 2005, 11:43 AM
"As for PSU only being on PS2 and PC, well I don't think they have much alternative really! It's broadband only, so it would be pointless to bring it out on GC because of how few people have the broadband adaptor and the lack of support Nintendo have shown to online in general"

VERY easy solution: BB Adaptor Pack-in.

If Nintendo can pack-in bongo controllers, GBA link cables, rumble paks, memory cards, and etc.. I'm QUITE sure SEGA/Sonic Team could convince them to pack-in the BB adaptors.

That's SEGA's problem, and it always has been--the can create some of the best games in the world, but they always go about doing things (seemingly) the wrong way.. which is why they are where they are today.

I tell ya, I really wish Nintendo and SEGA would just merge into one company.

Nash
Jul 26, 2005, 11:52 AM
Bundling a broadband adaptor would significantly reduce the profit margins for Sega, on a game that must have pretty huge development costs already. Unless Nintendo paid for it, which lets face it they aren't going to do this late in the GC's life for one game.

If I was Sega I'd be pretty pissed-off at the lack of support Nintendo gave to online with the GC. Sega basically supported it single-handed, and with no 1st-party Nintendo games to boost sales of the 56k/broadband adaptors that harmed PSO's sales.

I'd like to see PSU on Revolution, and I'd like to see all Sega's games brought back onto one platform again. Quite why Nintendo didn't buy them when they had the chance I don't know, but now Sega are in the hands of Sammy profit is king. A lot of the console development has stopped, and they seem to be going back to focussing on the arcade again. Which is still big business in Japan.

We're lucky to be getting PSU really, the boss of Sammy is a huge fan of PSO so it was one of the few console games to be safe. That's why I don't care what platform it's on, and to be honest PS2 makes the best sense with the slim model having the network adaptor built in.

Infiniteque
Jul 26, 2005, 12:06 PM
I agree. During the time of when SEGA was negotiating with other companies about selling/merging they passed up a lot of VERY good companies.

I don't know the specifics about their talks with Nintendo, but I do clearly remember that NAMCO was ready and willing to make the move.. only to have SEGA change their mind at the last minute and then go with Sammy.

NAMCO has since merged with Bandai, whom Nintendo owns quite a bit of stock in if I recall correctly. SEGA might have missed the boat on this one..

In a perfect world, NAMCO, Nintendo, Bandai and SEGA would join powers to widthstand the upcoming generation of video games [which a lot of people are speculation a possible market crash--mostly because of the direction games are headed in].

Saiffy
Jul 26, 2005, 01:13 PM
On 2005-07-26 09:13, SUPAH_CHAO wrote:
stealing Saiffy's PS2 >.>;


http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Well, ST's made their choice. Not much point in thinking about what could happen.

or rather, try to make sense of ST's logic. o:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saiffwin on 2005-07-26 11:13 ]</font>

Blitzkommando
Jul 27, 2005, 04:14 AM
I've recently had some big changes, computer-wise, and that has affected the way I see consoles. Not but 6 months ago, I would probably have been asking the same questions. But today, I don't see the reasoning anymore. I might even go as far as saying that to make the game to full potential, to scrap all console versions. But, I won't say that because I can see that a console would make them money on the game.

But, if this truely is going to be what Sega wants it to be, the best MMORPG yet, sticking on a single market would be more logical. Since it is on PS2 and PC, all of the advantages of a PC only environment are lost. One of the biggest being a harddrive on the client's side. Even with server side saving and whatnot, it would still be better to have a client with a harddrive. Updates, new areas, new this that and the other stuff. Another thing that I really like is things like the Windows IME for Japanese. PSO had much more limited vocabulary than there is possible in Japanese. And myself being someone who is learning Japanese finds that frustrating and confusing.

I have other reasons for my way of thinking now but I don't want to get too technical. Although, I probably already have. In any event, PS2 is the most popular game console out, worldwide. That probably has more to do with the decision than anything.

Rubesahl
Jul 27, 2005, 10:24 AM
It would've taken too long to develop on all 3 consoles. Plus besides the very true facts ppl have said about the Xbox, the Xbox 360 is coming out late this year O_o;; So it isn't really that smart to release it there.

REALLY, PSU SHOULD come out for PS2/PC. If it were up to me, PC only but oh well, Sony just had to fuck it up by taking the HDD bay off the new PS2 >: If it's coming for PC/PS2, let it stay there alone. The game will have a more solid community in general! Nor like present PSO where some are in GC, others in XB, others in JPN BB and others in US BB O_o Really, it isn't that convenient. I'd love to go back to the days where the first ship had full blocks till like number 8. Really, I think PSU has a much better chance of getting recognized as a superb online game with the PC/PS2. As for graphics, it seems like ST is doing a GREAT job with the PC version, after all they're developing them at the same time. So we can expect having added effects (or improvoed ones) on the PC platform. The PSU screens already look amazing (and they're obviously PC version screens, if not, then man if it looks that good on PS2 then I can't imagine on PC O_o ) Plus like I said in another post, I don't want PSU going on a 2 year trip through all consoles when they could use that time to put more content on PSU and develop a sequel.

Getintothegame
Jul 28, 2005, 01:29 PM
I just don't get why their going away from where they've been for the last 3 or so years. Gamecubers will be left in the dark with one option- either get a PS2 or get a good PC.

But why not go with the consoles you've had your best game on? Xbox? Gamecube?

Eihwaz
Jul 28, 2005, 01:31 PM
On 2005-07-28 11:29, Getintothegame wrote:
I just don't get why their going away from where they've been for the last 3 or so years. Gamecubers will be left in the dark with one option- either get a PS2 or get a good PC.


Yeah, that's what gets me. >_<

But, hey, at least on PC I won't have to buy a special keyboard of any kind. Of course, I'll need to get a better computer, but we're due for an upgrade anyway. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Dre_o
Jul 29, 2005, 08:27 PM
I have to agree that all these comments make sense but what about the people who don't have an exceptional computer or a PS2 or the money to buy either? My theory (i don't care if it sounds stupid) is that when ST observes how many people are extremely freaking angry after the release of PSU the might begin development on a version for Xbox and GameCube.

________
599 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_599)

Nash
Jul 29, 2005, 09:01 PM
Xbox and GC will both be dead by then, to be blunt it would be a waste of Sonic Team's resources. Also the PSO community is used to moving on to another platform anyway. We did it with the Dreamcast before, people will do it again for PSU.

By the time it comes out, the slim PS2 with built-in network adaptor will have had a price-cut so it won't be *as* bad as it is now if you need to get one.

Dre_o
Jul 29, 2005, 09:22 PM
On 2005-07-29 19:01, Nash wrote:
Xbox and GC will both be dead by then, to be blunt it would be a waste of Sonic Team's resources. Also the PSO community is used to moving on to another platform anyway. We did it with the Dreamcast before, people will do it again for PSU.

By the time it comes out, the slim PS2 with built-in network adaptor will have had a price-cut so it won't be *as* bad as it is now if you need to get one.



Understandable, understandable,

________
Triumph Tiger 100 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Triumph_Tiger_100)

Dre_o
Aug 1, 2005, 05:37 PM
Xbox and GC will both be dead by then, to be blunt it would be a waste of Sonic Team's resources.

Though i know it is your opinion, I would still like to know the basis for your statement.

________
lambo wiki (http://www.lamborghini-tech.com/)

Delfi
Aug 1, 2005, 06:20 PM
Heres what i dont get ... the PS2 is adated system and i think i heard ps3 is making is way along with xbox360 and nintendo revolution so why are ST not releasing this game on the newer platforms ???

_Tek_
Aug 1, 2005, 06:30 PM
On 2005-08-01 15:37, Dre_o wrote:

Xbox and GC will both be dead by then, to be blunt it would be a waste of Sonic Team's resources.

Though i know it is your opinion, I would still like to know the basis for your statement.



The basis of his statement is it will be 2006, GCN and Xbox will be dead.

digigram
Aug 1, 2005, 08:39 PM
if not, then man if it looks that good on PS2 then I can't imagine on PC O_o
apparently the existing movies people have seen are actually ps2 (from a resolution standpoint), the screens seem to be around 700 by XXX at 4:3.. PC would look much sharper than that.

even then though, it does look pretty nice for just ps2 though. makes me glad however, because I don't plan on playing on PC. (hate playing games on PC unless they are exclusive).

trunkszero
Aug 4, 2005, 02:16 AM
i'll probably upgrade to a better computer as oppsed to getting a ps2, since im in dire need of an upgrade anyways since i want to get into city of heroes and blue burst as well as psu

Zelutos
Aug 4, 2005, 02:24 AM
I think everyone should just give up with the whole "porting PSU to GCN and XBox" thing. It's not happening, k? Although, as nice as it would be, i highly doubt they will end up doing it.

A more likely circumstance would be them porting it to the next-generation systems.

Until all is revealed and done, you must all live with the fact that PSU will be PS2 and PC only. K?

Fredrick
Aug 8, 2005, 02:12 PM
And... wouldn't it look better on GC/XBox?

Well for one, sega doesnt seem to care too much about graphics anyways (with the exception of Panzer Dragoon Orta).

Also the PS2 isnt that far behind. Although the Emotion Engine is only 333Mhz, it's a game processor. The GC's and Xbox's CPUs are PC processors. Its like haveing 2 cars, one with a 100 HP engine and one with a 150 HP engine. Normally you would think the 150 would have better performance... but if the 100 was in a honda civic, and the 150 was in a dodge magnum, the civic would be faster.

The major difference between the other systems is the RAM. PS2 has 32, GC has 40, and Xbox has 64. However the PS2's RAM was very expensive top of the line stuff. Similar to how the PS3 has 256MB of XDR ram.

HUnewearl_Meira
Aug 8, 2005, 10:50 PM
On 2005-07-26 09:39, Majiteque wrote:
"Development might be hard to make it for all 3 consoles... although I'd much prefer it to be multiplatform rather than stealing Saiffy's PS2 >.>;

And... wouldn't it look better on GC/XBox? Just a point."

I'm aware that the problem lies within getting different platforms to all run the same game equally, provided the hardware differences. However, they have [online] PC games running on tons of different kinds of PC hardware, and if they put form the effort, I'm sure they could manage to have PSU running on each console without many problems since console hardware is guaranteed to be the same (ie: every XBox is the same, every GC is the same, every PS2 is the same versus the myriad of different PCs out there).


Programming for multiple PCs is not comparable to programmiing for multiple consoles. In the case of PC hardware, there is a common library of functions that all up-to-par video cards are compatible with. We call this library, DirectX. By using the DirectX library, a game developer can develop for virtually every video card on the market. The only thing the programmer has to worry about is probing the video card to see what it can handle before assigning default video settings.

Now, granted there is also apparently a function library for all three consoles on the market now, too. Games such as Sonic Heroes were written with this library. The trouble with developing with this technique is that you cannot take specific advantage of an individual console's strengths, nor can you so easily avoid its weaknesses. The result is a game that could've been much smoother. By developing specifically for the PS2, Sonic Team is saving a great deal of resources, and they are also putting themselves into a position to push the console to its limits.

What bothers me about it though, is that they're planning to release PSU seriously at the end of the PS2's lifespan. With the Xbox360 only months away, and Revolution and PS3 on the horizon, it boggles the mind that they're not holding off to take advantage of a more powerful system and offer it as a launch title.

Fredrick
Aug 9, 2005, 09:14 AM
What bothers me about it though, is that they're planning to release PSU seriously at the end of the PS2's lifespan. With the Xbox360 only months away, and Revolution and PS3 on the horizon, it boggles the mind that they're not holding off to take advantage of a more powerful system and offer it as a launch title.

Online games dont last forever. They age quickly due to people finding bugs, glitches, hacks, ect... And also people just get bored with it over time.

PS2 has a TON of people on it, nearly 80 million which is ~4 times that on GC or Xbox. Just like with PS1 people are going to still play it long after the next system comes out... And it looks like PS2 will last alot longer then the PS1. Not only does it have more great games but it also has HUGE games still being made for it... which is more then you can say for GC or Xbox.

People WILL find problems with PSU eventually. They always regardless if it has server side saving or not. Look at it if PSU gets 2 years of hack free life (seriously doubt that). By then PS2 will likely have sold at least 90 million units, and PS3 will probobly be ~20-30.

People are not going to leave their systems behind as quickly this generation. PS1 was still in "eairly 3D graphics". Not only did it look horrible, but it was hard to even tell what things were. Yah the PS2's graphics may be outdated by the PS3's but they will still look nice. Like look at the Seaside area in PSO EP2. Graphicly is sucks. Low resolution textures, very few polygons, but it still looks "pretty". I think PSU will be the same way.

Rubesahl
Aug 9, 2005, 03:28 PM
People are not going to leave their systems behind as quickly this generation. PS1 was still in "eairly 3D graphics". Not only did it look horrible, but it was hard to even tell what things were. Yah the PS2's graphics may be outdated by the PS3's but they will still look nice. Like look at the Seaside area in PSO EP2. Graphicly is sucks. Low resolution textures, very few polygons, but it still looks "pretty". I think PSU will be the same way.



Interesting, first time I hear someone say that. I always found PSO a masterpiece in 3D games. Even if the game is old and the graphics aren't up to date it still looks pretty indeed. Forest still looks beautiful and let's not even mention Ep2 stages. Sure there's lots of new technology but Sonicteam have a great ability of doing much more with less. I still get chills when I go to Seaside and I still get excited when I go to spaceship. Even if the game won't look like a next-gen one it'll still look great. Just look at Episode 1, it's more than 4 years old and it still looks neat http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Also, ST is taking a more wait and see approach... that way they'll know which system would be best for the next PS game they release and have the technical know-how to do it right.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rubesahl on 2005-08-09 13:32 ]</font>

Dre_o
Aug 9, 2005, 05:46 PM
Also, ST is taking a more wait and see approach... that way they'll know which system would be best for the next PS game they release and have the technical know-how to do it right.

Hmm once you think about it that would make sense. It would allow them to make sure they do not make the same mistake (hmm I don't know if I should say twice because it has already happened.)

________
SL70 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_SL70)

cp99
Aug 10, 2005, 01:20 PM
On 2005-08-09 15:46, Dre_o wrote:

Also, ST is taking a more wait and see approach... that way they'll know which system would be best for the next PS game they release and have the technical know-how to do it right.

Hmm once you think about it that would make sense. It would allow them to make sure they do not make the same mistake (hmm I don't know if I should say twice because it has already happened.)




The best console for any phantasy star game release, would be a sega console. (not trying to start a war)

PhruitBaskit
Aug 10, 2005, 06:48 PM
Even if XBOX and GC start to go downhill, those are the counsels that PSO was out on. Wouldn't they get more out of a PSU for GC or XBOX. I mean, there would be more people who are familiar with the series and wanting to buy the game.

Why Sonic Team, Why???

Rubesahl
Aug 10, 2005, 09:58 PM
On 2005-08-10 16:48, PhruitBaskit wrote:
Even if XBOX and GC start to go downhill, those are the counsels that PSO was out on. Wouldn't they get more out of a PSU for GC or XBOX. I mean, there would be more people who are familiar with the series and wanting to buy the game.

Why Sonic Team, Why???



Actually, the number of possible PS2 users for PSU is FAR greater than the people who know PSO on XB and GC. Plus think about it, most people here probably have a PS2, if not then it's pretty sure that 98% of everyone here accesses PSOW Forums by a computer... Unless the PC is outdated, chances are you can play PSU.

Though I wish PSU would come on GC and XB, I want PSU to be even more popular than PSO, and coming out on Sony's system AND PC is the best way to do it >_> And yes, the perfect system for PSU would be a Sega system -sniffs-

cp99
Aug 10, 2005, 10:18 PM
On 2005-08-10 19:58, Rubesahl wrote:
And yes, the perfect system for PSU would be a Sega system -sniffs-



See SEGA, we love you. WHYYYYYYYY god WHYYYYYYY

kazuma56
Aug 10, 2005, 11:15 PM
well, from a Phantasy Star standpoint, how many people do you think moved to say GC or Xbox after DC died? it's a far better assumption to make to say that 70-80% of Phantasy Star and PSO players went to PS2 because of their console only RPG's *cough* FF/Grandia/Star Ocean *cough* than to the GC and Xbox.... Also the fact that Sega has been remaking all the old Phantasy star games on Sony's console is also another factor to boost PSU sales because those that spend that minor 29.99 on the trilogy once it hits stateside will probably want to try PSU seeing as its the next installment in the series.

_Tek_
Aug 10, 2005, 11:34 PM
The problem is the online community, it was great when a ton of people threw away their lives and where on PSO gc all the time. But its really crappy when a ton of people own teh game, but rarely go online. Then its really dead online. Just look at PSO-BB.

kazuma56
Aug 10, 2005, 11:47 PM
when i was on BB (planning to go back once i get my own CC), Cronus had always 100+ players, obviously not that greatm but better than what we see on GC nowadays, I say that at any given time on BB, there will be at last 130+ people...

I might have misinterpreted what you are trying to say Tek and if i am, I apologize.