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Reenee
Aug 15, 2005, 12:03 AM
...on the Front Page! XP

One thing I must say:

No Dual-Wielding!? ;_; I assume Mechguns are out of the picoture then.

Getintothegame
Aug 15, 2005, 12:06 AM
Here it is. (http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=1356&mode=nested&order=0&thold=-1)

I really think that this isn't the greatest thing PSU has to offer, but hey, the good does outweigh the bad.

Parn
Aug 15, 2005, 12:13 AM
Funny...

http://phantasystaruniverse.com/image/screen/universe_39.jpg

That hunter on the left doesn't seem to have much of a problem with holding a saber in his left hand. Not to mention video footage of characters single or dual wielding daggers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2005-08-14 22:15 ]</font>

Getintothegame
Aug 15, 2005, 12:21 AM
But notice that the character we'll most likely be playing (Ethan) is following these rules?

Or, perhaps, some weapons can be duel wielded?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Getintothegame on 2005-08-14 22:24 ]</font>

DarK-SuN
Aug 15, 2005, 12:24 AM
The goods definately outweight the bads, I'm so getting PSU.

Consider that maybe we're not being told everything; remember that in movies we clearly see swords being used and having no gun in the off-hand, clearly indicating it's a two handed weapon.

Same for the Rods; in movies we ALWAYS see them without a gun being held by the off-hand, although I'd expect Canes to allow this since they're one handed weapons.

In some movies we also see rifle types being held by both hands, so I'm sure some combinations are obviously not possible, like using a double saber with handguns (many movies show that double sabers are two handed).

Also, that shot Parn showed of the NPC holding two sabers indicates it's probably likely that some weapons allow for dual wielding (or some weapons from a certain class do at least), like Daggers too for example (there are even some movies and shots showing a single dagger being held by one hand while the off-hand is holding a handgun).

Somehow, and this is purely my opinion, I see the fact Force weapons being the only ones that allow technique usage as a good thing; I mean, aside from the Psycho Wand and others which cut TP usage or boost specific techs, what's the use of the majority of the Force weapons for actual combat?
Exactly my point, this way they have an actual use and reason to be in the game, unlike 85% of the PSO Force weapons.

Reenee
Aug 15, 2005, 12:24 AM
I hope Sonic Team doesn't do something stupid like that.

_Tek_
Aug 15, 2005, 12:25 AM
Awesome, I really want to use a red and blue saber combination!

And that article must be wrong, because if it was right, we'd have no mechguns, no dual swords, no double daggers, etc. Plus you've seen teh vids for teh large swords, it takes 2 hands for those, I assume shotguns/partisan/etc will be 2 handed as well.

DarK-SuN
Aug 15, 2005, 12:28 AM
Actually, it came to me, maybe Daggers by nature go for both hands, but if you decide to equip a handgun it automaticly takes the off-hand dagger so that it can hold the handgun, forcing you to be in a "new single dagger" style when that occurs.

It's likely that Mechguns follow the same rule, if you equip a mechgun, you'll automaticly dual-wield it (unless they include new types of mechguns which are single handed as well).

If that's the case, then it's possible that dual wielding sabers depends on certain sabers already having that "dual wield" capability, much like PSO.

But hey, this is just speculation from my part, I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Reenee
Aug 15, 2005, 12:28 AM
^ Oh man, how could you do "teh" twice!?

Not to stray off the topic much, but I do hope for variations on the weapons. How about an actual single/dual-barrelphoton Shotgun? XD

RoninJoku
Aug 15, 2005, 01:25 AM
I don't exactly believe that information is exactly what we should expect... It's so contradictory of things we've seen already (granted, some of those aspects could have been changed)... Correct me if i'm wrong, but I remember seeing Ethan using a partisan to cast foie... And then of course the whole dual wielding sabers, daggers, etc... I deffinitely don't think that left hand is reserved for guns though... That just seems silly... I don't know... I need more information... I just feel like were missing something important still...

At any rate... I'm expecting further developments about these issues soon... At the very least it will probably be covered on the JP site when it updates this friday...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2005-08-14 23:28 ]</font>

kazuma56
Aug 15, 2005, 03:07 AM
i'm with everyone else on this one, the whole this hand does this and this hand does that must be misinterpreted or just plain wrong, maybe they meant to say the X weapon can be equipped only by the right hand and not the left... for example, you find a claymore from an enemy, if the game has left and right hand on the equip screen you can only use the right hand to equip the weapon, not the left.

The above seems most likely because then ST will not have to go through the hassle of making left-handed and right-handed attack animations...essentailly making every person attack the same way.

therealAERO
Aug 15, 2005, 03:12 AM
guys I just remembered something from the e3 demo that I played. You could have a dagger weapon and a gun, but you only had one part of the dagger not a dual wield dagger. It was weird and I never really had much thought of it until now. hmmm

kazuma56
Aug 15, 2005, 03:22 AM
well was their drops in the demo? I'm guessing there was not, so it's still up in the air.

therealAERO
Aug 15, 2005, 03:34 AM
if you mean drops as in getting stuff off the ground than yes there were drops. Some kind of nut that was in a neon green container. I found it in a hay stack I burned with gifoie. Also obviously you can't have a gun in one hand and hold a sword with both hands. Sword could do 6 hit combo, maybe more, but the Sega Representatives only told me how to do a Six hit combo, Normal, Normal, Normal, Special, Special, Special. Same could be applied for all weapons except guns and Hou weapons.(none that I could find out) NO combos for guns...it just shoots there is no limit except for Photon points.

Reenee
Aug 15, 2005, 10:07 AM
On 2005-08-15 01:34, therealAERO wrote:
NO combos for guns...it just shoots there is no limit except for Photon points.



Oh hell yes. This MUST mean there's some drawback with the guns though.

PrinceBrightstar
Aug 15, 2005, 10:32 AM
Left and Right hand stuff are nothing new. Take a look at the classic series, especially Phantasy Star 4 where using a second weapon added to the number of attacks Chaz or Hahn could do, however that was usually overshadowed when Chaz used a sword or Hahn kept a shield equipped.

...hm shields....

Reenee
Aug 15, 2005, 11:24 AM
On 2005-08-15 08:32, Jonathan_F wrote:

...hm shields....



...most likely kept on the side of the arm, exactly like in PSO.

Nash
Aug 15, 2005, 12:10 PM
They always said only certain combinations could be dual-wielded, but this article does seem to not be the full story.

If you watch the trailer from E3, there are weapons that use both hands (a magical piece style cane, dual claws, a large sword ...) The weapon icon changes to a single icon taking up both left & right hands, instead of the usual 2 icons. Mech-guns would use both hands as well, and probably most of the larger guns and rifles as well.

Curious what the Cast's ability to 'turn weapons into sub-weapons' means. Access to secondary firing types? Modifying guns so they look/behave differently? Is there anything in the old PS games which would give a clue to what this is? It must be quite a significant feature if it's comparable to the Beast race's transformation ability.

DarK-SuN
Aug 15, 2005, 12:47 PM
On 2005-08-15 08:07, Reenee wrote:


On 2005-08-15 01:34, therealAERO wrote:
NO combos for guns...it just shoots there is no limit except for Photon points.



Oh hell yes. This MUST mean there's some drawback with the guns though.


Like it was said, the drawback with the guns is the fact they have ammo/power cells which run out.

PhruitBaskit
Aug 15, 2005, 05:55 PM
Here's something...look at PSU screenshot no. 34. Ethan is holding a rifle in his RIGHT hand, not his left. But it does look like it is taking both of his hands to use. So...

Quo
Aug 15, 2005, 06:41 PM
That is stupid.

I seriously hope ST changes the equipment system around before PSU's release or that that is flat wrong.

I was personally hoping for a system like in the classic Phantasy Stars.

A shitty battle system in a game about fighting is solid reason to not play the game. I'm going to be pissed if my Melee characters have to switch over to a cane to cast resta.

DarK-SuN
Aug 15, 2005, 07:21 PM
Androids don't complain for not having Resta (or any technique for that matter) when they're soloing, just work around that like everyone else.

So much negativity and no one knows how it'll all work for the final yet, we just have some vague information which may even be mistranslated in some aspects.
Relax guys, take a deep breath.

I for one, don't give a damn about that; maybe because I'm used to not having Resta (since my main character in PSO is an android) and because due to that my non-android PSO characters are not Resta dependant (as in, they do use Resta, they just aren't "addicted" to using it as the only form of healing since Resta can be slow sometimes) since having an android as a main ensures I need other strategies when soloing so not to be Resta dependant (for example, playing better and having a better positioning strategy when facing certain enemies).

Consider it like a way to ensure Forces are useful and Hunters and Rangers are that and nothing more (unless they like to switch around from time to time).


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarK-SuN on 2005-08-15 17:25 ]</font>

_Tek_
Aug 15, 2005, 08:51 PM
I just wanted to say something about the picture. The guy on the right looks dam freaky, and it(is it male or female? freaky!) appears to be using 2 glowing gloves of some kinds. Perhaps those are the fist like weapons!

Quo
Aug 15, 2005, 09:10 PM
On 2005-08-15 17:21, DarK-SuN wrote:


Ok, sure, but if its incovenient to cast techs, then nobody will play anything but teching newmans and meleeing casts.

Parn
Aug 15, 2005, 10:27 PM
I'll bet.

RoninJoku
Aug 15, 2005, 10:53 PM
On 2005-08-15 19:10, Quo wrote:


On 2005-08-15 17:21, DarK-SuN wrote:


Ok, sure, but if its incovenient to cast techs, then nobody will play anything but teching newmans and meleeing casts.



except for me... to be different! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

DarK-SuN
Aug 15, 2005, 11:21 PM
I don't plan on making many (if any) tech user, just because I'm not too fond of magic in games at all.

The only technique I used in PSO (when playing as my HUnewearl, which doesn't happen often) was RAbarta and little else, so this will just make sure I will create a full melee newman since I won't carry around a cane just for freezing techniques; I'll just leave the freezing for the Forces of the party.

My plans right now are simple, a male Cast (melee with possible rifle usage when necessary), a female Newman (melee), a male Newman (melee) and maybe a male Human (unsure about this one, might just do another male Cast with a diferent game strategy); I'm considering we'll also have 4 slots in PSU, just like we do in PSOBB, if it's diferent in the end I may change some things.
Essentially, try to recreate my PSO characters in PSU the best I can.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarK-SuN on 2005-08-15 21:23 ]</font>

kazuma56
Aug 16, 2005, 02:59 AM
maybe they will have some form of adding techs and such to your weapons, like having a sword with Resta or a Rifle with +1-% attack speed...Think Unit slots on armor in PSO cept on your weapons.

PrinceBrightstar
Aug 21, 2005, 02:41 AM
Hey, am I the only one who has noticed that as you attack, even with a sword, the number of uses left reduce? As if the weapon wears out.

_Tek_
Aug 21, 2005, 02:51 AM
Yep, weve all seen that, its assumed that weapons no longer have that infinite amount of energy.

SubstanceD
Aug 21, 2005, 02:25 PM
On 2005-08-14 22:25, _Tek_ wrote:
Awesome, I really want to use a red and blue saber combination!

And that article must be wrong, because if it was right, we'd have no mechguns, no dual swords, no double daggers, etc. Plus you've seen teh vids for teh large swords, it takes 2 hands for those, I assume shotguns/partisan/etc will be 2 handed as well.



http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Someone's obviously a Star Wars fan.

Also, don't let Renee give you crap about the teh thing. I do it all the time ( another thing that I am guilty of is writing 'alos' instead of also ), it happens when you try to type a little bit faster then you actually can and you don't proof read. It's not a crime.

As for my opinions on this news, I have mixed feelings about it. Obviously it's going to be nice to carry a big honking sword in one hand and a gun in the other, that way, I don't have to go into a menu screen to change weapons when I find that my Sword is no longer getting the job done. I am concerned about 2 things however. For starters, it looks like we won't be able to cast techniques without equiping rods or canes ( to make matter worse, the hand that you hold rods and canes in is the same one that holds melee weapons, looks like you can't be a melee fighter and a technique caster at the same time ). My second gripe is the fact that I wanted to be able to carry two massive swords at the same time. Yeah, I know it is a very stupid gripe since it's not very realistic for a charcter to carry 2 swords that are bigger then him in each hand at the same time but it would have been nice to have bene able to do it. On the more realistic front, what does this mean for twin mechguns and double swords like Yasha and Sange. I know that the above pic shows a guy with two sabres in his hand so there is still some hope that we can euip 2 of the same weapon in each hand ( at least in speacial circumstances ) but for the moment I willl remain sceptical about this system, at least untill I get more info or untill I play the game for myself.

I am still looking forward to PSU and I still think it will kick ass.

_Tek_
Aug 21, 2005, 05:39 PM
Yeah I jsut say teh, and jsut, and I think I still screw up becuase.

Anyways considering that the ps2 controller and pc keyboard+controller, there will be easy menus fr equiptin, just like on gamecube. That menu was awesome.

I was just watching some trailers again and I noticed in that large lobby area everyone's weapons were showing, unlike in pso.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Tek_ on 2005-08-21 15:58 ]</font>

Nash
Aug 21, 2005, 07:56 PM
I was just watching some trailers again and I noticed in that large lobby area everyone's weapons were showing, unlike in pso.

You're right!

I hadn't noticed that before either. That's a nice change, although I REALLY hope the Japanese PSU has an English option now and we can import, otherwise visiting the Japanese lobbies at the time of the Western release is going to be torture!

Imagine all the weapons they'll be carrying around by then ...

DarK-SuN
Aug 21, 2005, 08:32 PM
Remember that the weapons being visible in the lobby may just be something they didn't change since the game wasn't finished; there was a VERY old pic of PSO (during its production) showing people in the city holding weapons as well, which is not possible anymore.

Nash
Aug 21, 2005, 08:47 PM
Yeah that's possible, although I do think it's something they'd put in if they could as it would just add to the variety of the people you encounter in the lobby.

I could even see them allowing the trade-screen in the lobby now as well.

DarK-SuN
Aug 21, 2005, 08:54 PM
Trade-screen in the lobby would be one hell of a welcome addition, that's for sure.

There could also be the option (completly controlled by each user) to have the weapons equipped in the lobby or not; this way if you wanna see my weapons in the lobby, you'll only see them if I let you.
Doubt they'll do it though, but it would be cool.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarK-SuN on 2005-08-21 18:55 ]</font>

_Tek_
Aug 21, 2005, 09:34 PM
considering that its alot of memory to load to display everyone's weapons it may be taken off for the final version. but on the other hand there are no mags, so that cuts down the ammount of graphics to load.

DarK-SuN
Aug 21, 2005, 09:44 PM
Not really a lot of memory, there was a hack for PSOv1/v2 (both DC and PC versions) to enable that in lobbies; it didn't really make the game chug.
They may just remove it for logic's sake, since no one would normally have a weapon in hand in a peaceful area.