A Theory on Melee and Techs

[Dre_o]

I came up with a horrifying thought: What if the ONLY way to use techs is with a force weapon. If that is true, it would become very annoying in combat having to switch weapons just to use resta.

I know this is one of those "We won't know until we play it things" but cut me some slack.

My only thought of how to remedy this is with weapons that don't really count. What do I mean? Well, for all of you who've played Marrowind 3 you'll know what I'm talking about, what if we were to have something like a bracer or necklace that would have the tech ability engraved, more or less, in it? In either case it will allow us to use two handed weapons and techs without having to switch weapons and put our necks on the line.

[Lovejuice]

I'm guessing for Humans, Beasts, and now Casts, this will most likely be the case. Sure, it's a bit fiddly, but PSU has some super-speedy enhanced weapon-switch dealy, and it goes some way to prevent repetitions of RA/HU Resta solo-killkillkillnonstop-gods in PSO.

If anything it creates more of an incentive to team with Magic wielders, or pace your fighting better (or use healing items, if they still exist). Judging from what we've seen in videos, Ethan did have to be using a Rod to use Resta - and in the offline game you'll probably end up finding that you'll need to do the same frequently, or have one of the most probable healer-type characters in your active party (That Newman airy-fairy Church bint comes to mind).

You know what I would like to see for 'support' types in PSU actually? More buff/debuff skills then our regular staples of Shifta/Deband et al. I'm not entirely sure what on earth they could actually be (perhaps, er.., a HP/PP regeneration 'blessing' type? or movement speed buff? Some poisony attack for enemies? I'uno..), but it'd be nice to see the idea of Pure-Support/Pure-Nuke/Mish-Mash-of-both put in for the magic men and women. But blah, the chances are probably a bit slim of such...

Still, the whole magic system is very much covered in smoke and mist for everyone bar Humans, isn't it? I mean no one's really even sure if Newmans/Forces will still use the same 'Rod' system, or just have a whole PSO style setup.

[Nash]

Things aren't very clear at the moment, the only real distinctions we have at the moment are the special attacks. How technique and other abilities will vary is all a bit vague.

Even if all techniques need to be channeled through items, it would just take some adjusting to that's all. Plus if there are things like 2-handed Rods, then you might be able to assign 4 techniques to it as you aren't using a second weapon.

I hope we see items like rings or something so you can have an 'unarmed' force though.

[Kent]

On 2005-10-29 19:48, Dre_o wrote:
I came up with a horrifying thought: What if the ONLY way to use techs is with a force weapon.

Welcome to ... the first combat videos we've seen of PSU.

And guess what's true? :/

The way the weapon-switch system is being implemented, I don't think it'll be too tedious, though...

[FantasyJoy]

Maybe you can insert techs into sabers and such too, but only one or something. I'm going to play with a Newman and I never liked those cane or rod type weapons on PSO. They look so dump. I always equip my Forces with Double Saber and such, because those things just look so cool! I want to say is that I want to use saber/daggers for my Newman on PSU too, but the question is if that's good for them.

[ANIMEniac]

On 2005-10-30 00:04, Kent wrote:


On 2005-10-29 19:48, Dre_o wrote:
I came up with a horrifying thought: What if the ONLY way to use techs is with a force weapon.

Welcome to ... the first combat videos we've seen of PSU.

And guess what's true? :/

The way the weapon-switch system is being implemented, I don't think it'll be too tedious, though...


i hope because i cant say how many times iv been switching weapons fast in my quick select and picked the rong ones multiple times in a row

[Nai_Calus]

From what I've seen so far, I'm not holding my breath for anything sensible at all. *shudder*

Especially troublesome to me was Ethan's only being able to use two techs with that silly stick of his. Hopefully that was just... Y'know, a low-level 'lol, I can't do crap yet' thing.

Speaking as a support Force, I regularily use at least... Oh, seven techs? And while I don't mind digging through a menu for Shifta/Deband since they last a while, I still consider having INSTANT access to Jellen, Zalure, Resta and Anti necessary. I also like to shortcut Moons(Reverser gets too slow, though if it's at Falz I'll drop my Moons since I'll likely be dead too much to revive anyone, and if I'm not I still have Reverser) for quick revivals and Rafoie for lazy casts/knocking flying critters down/random crowd control.

...We'll leave out melee/support Forcing, because that just doesn't seem possible anymore. :-/

...Oh, yes, and if I'm a melee character... Heh. I consider having instant easy access to whatever support techs I have on that class even more essential... Because I never trust the Force to actually do their job. >_>

[PhruitBaskit]

As far as we know so far (I don't want to say it, but) this is true. Remember that article from [i]GameFront[b], that German gaming magazine, that was on the homepage a while back. They said,

"Magic is executable only with the Hou systems. Apparently, you can't use any techniques unless you have a Hou system weapon equipped."

If you didn't see that article the weapons are divided into three systems: the Hou system (Rods, Canes, etc), Hit system (Sabers, Swords, etc) and Shooting system (Handguns, Machineguns, Rifles, etc). This article came out a while ago, so it's susceptible to change, but...

[OdinTyler]

I didnt see that article, but I can try to clear up some questions, based on the demo I played. Healing items are still very much around. The boxes for those & meseta look a lil different, glow alot brighter, but you know what they are (Monomate, Meseta, etc). I dont believe that spells will be limited to just being in the weps. Perhaps those w/a greater affinity for it, like newmans may be able to cast spells already & would have extra firepower through the use of weaponry. That would also be a reason to be a newman (magic mastery). If all races are forced to use weaponry to gain access to magic, then you really need to consider how youre going to raise your char. Will you carry support weapons? Elementals? Tough decisions ahead.
Id love to see the return of the spells from PSII (& maybe III). II had the largest spell list of all the PS games (some pretty cool spells too). Bring those back, in addition to the current ones. For those that havent played PSII, if this comes true, the customizations from this alone are gonna blow your minds! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[FantasyJoy]

I'll be very happy if the spell list was long. Spell and Magic is just my style.

I thought they said, that they're will be wind, earth and water element spells. ( and ofcourse fire, ice and thunder )

[OdinTyler]

Yes, there are added elements over PSO. Im just wondering if theyll bring back some of the names used in PSII like the Zan series for wind, etc.

[PhruitBaskit]

It will be very nice to have techs that weren't in the PSO that we're all so used too. I'd like to see a complete list of the techs in PSU. New techs are going to be a lot of fun!

And I would like to know the names of some techs from the old PS games, Tyler http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[OdinTyler]

There were some pretty good spells back in PSII days. Keep in mind, this is where the spell series started: usually 3 spells per series. Youd have wind, thunder, light (in the form of a laser), even a spell where youd sacrifice your life to heal another. I didnt use those too often & having a bunch of suicidal players in PSU would be just nuts! If you ever get a chance, play PSII. The variety of spells are crazy. Theres spells you use just on monsters & just on machines. The effects for the day looked great. I just hope they return & if they combine with other spells/atks (like in PSIV), Im gonna go outta my mind! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Dre_o]

I saw the Hou weapon thing and I was more intending of the weapons to not really be weapons but yet they still took up a hand but you could still use two handed weapons and they would still be considered Hou weapons....

wow, I confused myself with that one.

One the spell numbers, I'd perfer the spells to be like the number of spells in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, ignoring Firaga and that crap, that would be a good number and have different effects.

[Rion772]

If that's the case then I just WON'T use tech's at all.

[Dre_o]

On 2005-10-30 16:15, Rion772 wrote:
If that's the case then I just WON'T use tech's at all.



I think you understood what I said wrong, it would be a GOOD thing the way I meant it. My way, you would be able to use things like Double Sabers or Broad Swords and still be able to cast two or three techs without having to switch weapons.

[Nai_Calus]

Having to change weapons at ALL to use techs is unacceptable, and a step DOWN from PSO/PS. XD

More sensible is PSIV's way of doing things. If you don't have a weapon equipped(This happens very often with Rune, since it's usually just a better idea to have him with two shields since he can only use rods, which are two-handed), you can't attack physically. This actually makes sense - You don't want to smack monsters with your bare hands, and hitting anything with an arm you had a shield on would be somewhat awkward. You can however, provided you can use techs or magic, still use those until you run out of TP/uses. XP

And to be bitchily technical, nobody in your party in PSII uses any sort of spells. Techniques aren't magic. Only games real magic is used by a party member in are PS itself(Everyone but Odin) and PSIV(Rune and Kyra). I specify 'party member' because Lutz uses magic in PSII, but he isn't in your party. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[OdinTyler]

TECHNICALLY, no matter what the word is, those that can cast spells are magic-users, regardless of what game its in. Yes, the more 'natural' types are Esper-related. To wonder whether or not ppl in PSII or III are using magic or not is like saying one pronunciation of Palma (for example) is more right than the other (tho in the original game, it IS P-a-l-m-a). No one in PS history is an alchemist using skills or throwing items to simulate a spell. Theyre actually casting spells or techniques or w/e you want to call them.
Keep in mind, the series takes place vastly into the future & it is entirely possible that some humans have tapped into internal resources or even external from the limitless boundaries of Nature & the Universe (which is ultimately where all magic comes from). http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kent]

I believe there was a picture released a while back of a one-handed wand... Could probably use that for jellen/zalure type stuff, then use a handgun in the other hand to defend yourself... Then switch back to whatever weapon of choice.

I'm not saying I really like the idea of not being able to cast techniques separately... I'm just saying it might not be as bad as some of us are making it out to be. :/

[OdinTyler]

Agreed. Til we know how equipment & combat works (aside from the demo), its too early to say. Everything said so far is basically speculation. Im trying to be optimistic, myself. One could use a wand for Shifta/Deband & another for Jellen/Zalure. That would be pretty cool. Of course then, that person would have to stay back as his/her hands would be pretty tied up.

[PhruitBaskit]

On 2005-10-30 16:15, Rion772 wrote:
If that's the case then I just WON'T use tech's at all.

I would still use techs if that was the case, but I wouldn't use them quite as often. I hope that the tech system doesn't work like that. If it does, then...http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[EspioKaos]

On 2005-10-30 18:22, OdinTyler wrote:
Keep in mind, the series takes place vastly into the future & it is entirely possible that some humans have tapped into internal resources or even external from the limitless boundaries of Nature & the Universe (which is ultimately where all magic comes from). http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
That's correct. Under Graalistic belief, photon energy is what makes up techniques. Anyone can summon photon to cast a tech, but they must have something to channel it through, i.e. a wand or rod. For example, even though newmen are the most skilled at tech casting and have such a high MST, they still need something to channel the photon energy through themselves from nature. Mirei Mikuna in the E3 2004 trailer for PSU, was shown casting a barta tech from her right hand, but she still needed the wand in her left hand to channel the photon energy she had summoned.

[OdinTyler]

In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi:

"The Force surrounds us, penetrates us."

and Master Yoda:

"The Force is my ally. And a strong ally it is."

[Rion772]

On 2005-10-31 14:03, OdinTyler wrote:
In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi:

"The Force surrounds us, penetrates us."

and Master Yoda:

"The Force is my ally. And a strong ally it is."


That was a pointless post...and sort of off topic. Now I know what you mean, but if theres going to be techs built into our blades I want to be able to pick what I want and put it in slot's on the blade or something so I can change what I want on my blade.

[OdinTyler]

On 2005-10-31 14:08, Rion772 wrote:


On 2005-10-31 14:03, OdinTyler wrote:
In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi:

"The Force surrounds us, penetrates us."

and Master Yoda:

"The Force is my ally. And a strong ally it is."


That was a pointless post...and sort of off topic. Now I know what you mean, but if theres going to be techs built into our blades I want to be able to pick what I want and put it in slot's on the blade or something so I can change what I want on my blade.



I was responding to what Espio said about magic. The talk of magic does relate to whether we're using weapons or not to conduct such magic. The talk of magic will ultimately come to one's spiritual or religious beliefs. As Espio said, the Church of Graal speaks highly of photons & magic. Also, none of my posts are pointless. Rather rude of you to say that, Rion. No insults here, ok? Stay on topic.

[Rion772]

On 2005-10-31 14:10, OdinTyler wrote:


On 2005-10-31 14:08, Rion772 wrote:


On 2005-10-31 14:03, OdinTyler wrote:
In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi:

"The Force surrounds us, penetrates us."

and Master Yoda:

"The Force is my ally. And a strong ally it is."


That was a pointless post...and sort of off topic. Now I know what you mean, but if theres going to be techs built into our blades I want to be able to pick what I want and put it in slot's on the blade or something so I can change what I want on my blade.



I was responding to what Espio said about magic. The talk of magic does relate to whether we're using weapons or not to conduct such magic. The talk of magic will ultimately come to one's spiritual or religious beliefs. As Espio said, the Church of Graal speaks highly of photons & magic. Also, none of my posts are pointless. Rather rude of you to say that, Rion. No insults here, ok? Stay on topic.


Uhh that wasn't an insult buddy, I was pointing out that you were off topic. Yes it was rude but you're post was a qoute from something that's not even linked with PSU for 1 and 2 it was way off topic because there wasn't a single thing in there that mentioned previous posts or the topic.

Also if you even bothered to read the last part of my post is was talking about techs and melee together so I was off topic.

I wonder if we can pick up things that go in our weapons later to put up the power of our blades techs. As long as we can pick what techs are our weapons use I'll use techs pretty often

[PhruitBaskit]

On 2005-10-31 14:17, Rion772 wrote:
I was pointing out that you were off topic. Yes it was rude but you're post was a qoute from something that's not even linked with PSU.

As long as we're criticizing each other, the correct word would be your not you're, Rion. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Back to PSU; I don't really care about whether or not you can pick what techs your weapon uses. (Though it would be cool) That probably won't be a factor in my use of techs. I'm more concerned about having to switch to a Hou system weapon just so that I can use techs. If that's how it works, my tech-use will be greatly lowered http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif How about being able to use techs nomatter what kind of weapon you have equipped?

[ANIMEniac]

what if we could obtain special items to ingrave stuff on to our weapons, like the elysion, so we could use those weapons to channel certain techs.

[PhruitBaskit]

Personalizing your weps...A very interesting thought. Wait...That's what you meant by engraving, right?

[OdinTyler]

As we've talked about, I think thats the general idea for applying techs to weps. I just hope we get the freedom to add any 2+ ones we want. Utilize a certain wep for a certain type of ability: one for atk spells, one for support, etc. or even mix & match. Oh & for the record, when someone mentions magic & I even hint at it, that is on topic. I made your quote famous, Rion. Ya should thank me for it. Dont expect it, but, it would be nice. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ANIMEniac]

On 2005-10-31 18:55, PhruitBaskit wrote:
Personalizing your weps...A very interesting thought. Wait...That's what you meant by engraving, right?



that 2 but like with engraving your name(side note if with s-ranks wou could also customize ur weapon definitions) you could also engrave some spell "the heavens cry for devin punishment" and u get the special or tech with the weap. "heavens punishment" so u dont hav to change weaps. just to use it. but im pretty sure Odin explained it B4 my reply.

[OdinTyler]

Well, all I can go on is whats been posted here & my observations from playing the demo. Having a Foi spell usable w/1 button & Resta w/the other, leads me to believe certain things. One, spells can be mixed & matched. Two, you get a certain number of uses (photon points). Three, in using such a wep, you're focusing on a certain support role (for the moment), while your friends atk. I found it useful against the dragon. I let the NPCs keep atking while I casted Foi over & over, used Resta when need be. When they all died (starting w/that wimp Hyuga), I went in slashing. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Its going to really pay to try out different spell combos in your weps then try them out to see what works best for you in a given situation.

[Sinue_v2]

The only thing that bugs me about it.. is that there are (AFAIK) only two attack buttons which can be used to contain spells. The PlayStation 2 controller has 10 buttons. 14 if you count the D-Pad, using the left analog stick to move. Now while I know some of these buttons are being used for different purposes, (Weapon switching, FP Projectile mode, Lock-On, ect) it still boggles my mind that they cannot allow for a greater spell variety per weapon.

PC.. they have even more buttons.

I would think that an absolute non-aggrivating minimum of 4 techs per weapon would be ideal. That's enough to play a certain role... Support, Ice Techs, Gravity Techs, Fire Techs, Lighting Techs, ect... which you could then switch out between pre-set weapon equips depending on enemy weaknesses.

Oh, and Ian.. it actually isn't more sensible to be able to cast techs more efficently using two sheilds. In PS it was fine, since we didn't see visable armor. However in PSU, we're going to be seeing more and more visable equips - and it would make the casting animation look rather awkward for someone to pull off in a "real world" scenario. Expecially, when you think about it, PS sheilds were actually - you know - sheilds! Not barriers and energy sheilds which surround your character like a force feild.

[Dre_o]

We have NO confirment that we will not be able to upgrade and get more action slots but that is getting off topic.

(If what I said is false, please hit me)

[OdinTyler]

Nah, its not off topic. We're still talking about techs. True, we dont know if you can fit in more than 2. I just know of 2 so far from the demo. Maybe holding a different button while pressing either triangle or circle (different combo) may yield other atks? We must wait & see. If youre wrong, can I still hit ya? J/K http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Nai_Calus]

I never said it helped out with anything's efficiency. O_o; Just that it made more sense for things to operate that way. You don't have a weapon and you have two shields, which are presumably somewhat heavy, no, you're not going to go smack things, but you'll still be able to use techniques or magic just fine. XP

Instead of this silly 'you need a weapon to use techs' stuff. But then, I got used to PSO, where Zero always cast bare-handed unless he was meleeing, in which case he sure as hell wasn't using Force weapons. XP And all that changed between bare-handed support-only and melee/support was that using weapons slows male casting speed slightly... *tsks*

*stares at OdinTyler and attempts to comprehend the complete lack of any grasp of the difference between techs and magic needed to even attempt to debate if what your party members use in PSII and PSIII are 'spells' or not* Just as a random question, then... Why should we, then, CARE in PSIV that Rune can use magic and why should it strike Hahn as being something he hasn't seen before, if magic and techniques are the same thing?(And for that matter, why do he and Kyra need four different ways to set things on fire? ...Actually, never mind any kind of debate about anything, why DO they need four different ways to set things on fire? I mean, yeah, Dezolis is cold and all, but DAMN. XD )

Anyway, the difference between magic and techniques isn't something open to debate like the correct way to anglicize the katakana 'PARUMA'. O_o

[OdinTyler]

Simple. Chalk alot up to very bad transrations (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose), so I let alot slide. If I psycho-analyze every lil thing about PS, it would get picked apart as much as the average Star Trek plotline. Regardless, I love PS. Have for many years. Doesnt mean Ill stop asking questions or debating the wonders of the PS Universe. When you really stop to wonder what an Esper is, theyre basically those that learned to channel abilities sooner & easier than the average man. Its long been established that Espers hid away to study in secret, amid rumors of 'people in ivory towers' & talk as such.
Its really difficult to say all techniques arent exactly magic, in say PSII, for example. Sure you could look at some abilities & say 'thats not magic' whereas others clearly look like it. Should we generalize & say ALL techniques are therefore not magic? I think not. When an alchemist tries to pass off creating potions & throwing them as magic, THEN youll hear me say NO THATS NOT MAGIC! LOL

[Nai_Calus]

Er, no, none of that even still works, since the ability to use magic is genetic, whereas anybody can learn how to use techniques.

And you contradicted yourself there with the 'some techs look like magic'. So... Why are there still spells used to do a similar, yet different, thing, if they're supposedly the same? Why bother with Flaeli if Nafoie is the same thing? Why bother with Hewn when there's Zan? (Why did they give the blasted spells such unhelpful names?)

*sigh*

[Sinue_v2]

You don't have a weapon and you have two shields, which are presumably somewhat heavy, no, you're not going to go smack things, but you'll still be able to use techniques or magic just fine. XP

How so... in the combat and sprite animations, Rune (as well as others) are seen using incantations, body movement, to form the spell. Faleli starts as four small orbs of fire, which spread from different directions of Rune's outstreched hand - then combine into a massive bolt of fire. If you were lugging around two large sheilds - how easy would it be for you to preform precise and delicate hand/body gestures?

Of course, in PSO you apperantly don't need them. RAmars cast Foie out of their ass rather comically when weilding Mechguns. (I guess technically it would be his leg, but it's not as funny that way)

In either case - both PSO's animations and Rune's ability to cast spells while lugging a heavy ass sheild in each hand is fairly dubious to me.


If I psycho-analyze every lil thing about PS, it would get picked apart as much as the average Star Trek plotline.

You're right there... Phantasy Star does a good enough job of being plot-hole ridden enough that it gets picked apart and over examined even on the major plot points - let alone all the little details.


When you really stop to wonder what an Esper is, theyre basically those that learned to channel abilities sooner & easier than the average man

Actually, Ian got it right. It's a genetic trait passed down through certain families. Techs were developed as a pseudo-scientific approach using hand gestures and technology to draw forth a power similar to magic, but much weaker. It's kinda like Chi... or when you see Chun Li in Street Fighter do her Kikkoken move. She's not a magic user though, but she can still draw forth that power.


Should we generalize & say ALL techniques are therefore not magic?

But they're not magic. There's three types of these abilities. Techs, which are pseudo-scientific and easily learnable. Magic, which is only usable to those with a genetic talent. There there is divinity, calling upon the Great Light's own power to produce the desired effect - much like Raja does with St. Fire or Miracle. Those aren't magic.

Ever wonder why, if Techniques were just a dumbed down form of magic, that they didn't draw out of your pool of TP? Instead, they're limited use, just the same as special abilities.


whereas anybody can learn how to use techniques.

Apperantly, though, not Rhys, Rudo, or Gryz. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[OdinTyler]

I hate to break it to you guys but there is more than 1 source of magic. It can be called forth from a deity or from nature & yes, magic can be learned. Otherwise youre ostracizing magicians & wizards as ppl who dont use real magic. Youd lose that fight there! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif What I meant by not all techniques are magic, Josh Kain comes to mind. Sure, the spells in PSII look like spells. Kain is a known wrecker & his combat actions may have animations of spells, but, arent. Hes just doing his job of wrecking machines.
You say real magic is passed down to certain ppl. How tho? They had to learn, as would anyone who learned a technique. Magic or techniques (no matter what you want to call them), technically dont come from the user. Theyre channelled from another source & then performed through the user. This is much like a lightning rod, only the rod can then redirect the force given & transmit lightning. Espers have advanced training. No doubt about that. It doesnt mean that others arent capable of doing magic. Lassic wasnt a magic user before officially turning evil but suddenly he learned how to cast. Are they techniques? Nope. Magic. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif The arrogancy of the espers in thinking theyre the only TRUE magic users is why theres so few of them left. Do they not believe in magic from other sources? Shame...
Oh & for the name discrepancies. One, transrations transrations transrations. I told ya. Two, the names mean other things. Flaeli means Fire. Foi(e) means Flame. Two different spells, thus, two different names. Im guessing Zan & Hewn are different types of wind spells as well.

[Sinue_v2]

You're right that there's three types.

Techs: Chi like energys drawn from the body, they were developed for those who couldn't use REAL magic.

Magic: Energy drawn from the ether of the universe, not many people have the innate talent for magic. It's much more powerful than Chi energy, and has many more uses.

Divinity: Calling upon a devine power for your energies. Priests and those close to the gods can use this power. Raja, drawing from the Great Light. Zio and Lassic drawing from the Profound Darkness.

As I said... this is why techniques draw TP points... because you're using the energy of your own body to create these effects. Magic, though, is limited use.. and does not draw from your TP pool. The one exception, is Phantasy Star 1. There's a LOT of discrepancies though when it comes to the first game - as Phantasy Star didn't have a clear framework until PSII. Even so... back then, Magic was measured in MP - Magic Points. TP can still easily be distinguished from MP.

It's not like this is without precedence in western litterature. Most stories of wizards state that they had an innate knack for Magic before actually undergoing training to become a wizard. From Merlin right down to Harry Potter. This actually fits rather well within Phantasy Star's structure as well - since Chi energy, which techs are similar to, is an Eastern concept - while out & out Magic is a more western concept. Phantasy Star has, like it's inspiration Star Wars, has always been known for it's meshing of eastern and western philosphys and concepts.

[OdinTyler]

The 3 types that are one:

Techs: Chi is a spiritual energy in all living beings. To be able to harness & channel a living force is one of the basic fundamentals of magic. Hate to break it to ya, but that IS magic.

Magic: A good comparison to this would be a druid. They call from the power of nature. Again, channelling.

Divinity: This one basically explains itself.

It all comes down to a rather simple point. If youre going to categorize magic types, you gotta understand they all come from one source. If it is believed that we exist among nature & are a part of it, & nature is ultimately created by a divine force, then, the 3 are undeniably linked. One could say that a particular type is 'destructibly' more powerful than another, does not mean that one is any greater or more important than another, nor to say 1 type is NOT magic.
Rune Walsh himself tried to play the stuffy Esper, thinking that he could do everything himself. Afterall, the Lutz memories & abilities are a fragment of the power of the Great Light itself. Thinking oneself to be demi-god like is not good for one's attitude. Even one such as the reverent 5th one had to admit that it was the power of humanity: shown by Chaz, Rika, & even his own innate humanity, this humanity proves time & again to not only be necessary in defeating evil, but, a constant source of true magic.
Devs can use MP, TP, w/e. All words for basically the same thing. Chaz has combat skills in addition to spells but those are referred to as techniques right? Well, they shouldnt be! LOL I know it seems we're fighting a constant battle here, but, when it comes to the realms of phantasy, not everything is so cut & dry. Thats the fun of phantasy in the first place! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kano-Okami]

Regarding the techs,
I wonder if there you'll be able to cast a spell in sucession, ala Sora's firaga from Kingdom Hearts. If so, that would be a hell of an addition, because in PSO, magic users were at a disadvantage compared to the multi-slashing Hunters...hell, even the Rangers got multiple hits in with the machineguns. It'd only be natural to up the attack frequency of the magic.

[_Tek_]

Consider this:

If you are going to be a caster, you probably won't be using any other weapons to shoot or swing (even though psu's setup has no race restriction on weapons, you could use anything at any time), so you might as well be carrying around a staff the whole time.

I think its better that psu's 3 weapons classes are more defined. In pso, the magic weapons were just like weak swords types used to boost casting ability, not to be used for actual melee. And since guns and swords users aren't really going to be casting alot anyways, its better that the magic weapons have the tech exclusivness.

Since they took away the class and race restrctions (humar, ramar, etc) they need to put those restistions back on the weapons.

Its probably all about the balance. Oh and this post is all wrong if you can actually swing thoe new magic weapons, but according to the vids I suspect they jsut have the one cast animation, and will probably get several techs at once.

[F-o-x]

On 2005-11-17 09:15, Kano-Okami wrote:
Regarding the techs,
I wonder if there you'll be able to cast a spell in sucession, ala Sora's firaga from Kingdom Hearts. If so, that would be a hell of an addition, because in PSO, magic users were at a disadvantage compared to the multi-slashing Hunters...hell, even the Rangers got multiple hits in with the machineguns. It'd only be natural to up the attack frequency of the magic.



Man have you seen an unarmed male casting any technique above level 25 in PSO? Trust me they can go really fast.

[Kent]

From what I've seen, which isn't really a whole lot, melee, ranged, and hue damage seems to be relatively balanced.

...Maybe you can dual-wield wands to carry four techniques on you at once...

[OdinTyler]

I already said this. Its entirely possible given you can have 2 spells on 1 magic held, so, 4 without a doubt is possible.

[Rion772]

On 2005-11-18 09:59, OdinTyler wrote:
I already said this. Its entirely possible given you can have 2 spells on 1 magic held, so, 4 without a doubt is possible.


What about 6 then? eh? ehh?

[OdinTyler]

Well, Idk I was playing a beta, afterall. From what I saw of the staff from the demo, you pressed one button for one spell, another for the other. Idk if you can incorporate 3 or 4 spells in per held item. Im guessing it will just be 2. Maybe if we were to hold a button while using 1 of 2 buttons, it could open up other slots. Guess we'll find out soon. That is, unless ST coughs up some weapon AND controller info.

[Shade-]

(on topic as it relates to possible expanding spell options)

Odin, Do you remember what the other controler buttons did? If the standard 2 buttons were square and triangle, what did X and O do? R1 switches to offhand weapon, right? What about the others? If they were all used, it pretty much means we are left with 2 action buttons for any given weapon. And, I dont know about you, but if I'm in the fray, I'm going to want as many buttons labled "kill" and "kill better" as I can. No space in that situation for spells taking up an entire button.

Although, The system that way still dosen't work that well. If each wand can have 2 specific spells, and you can hold 2 at a time, and you have 3 different sets of weapons you can switch between, that still only means you have 12 spells avalable to you at a time. So my guess at this point is, holding a "force" wep can have some spells shortcutted on the weps themselves, but you can then also open up a 'magic menu' like the quickmenu in PSO. With this said, I dont think it's fair to say, "if you have a saber, you cannot cast any spells" At least give us access to SOME spells, even if it adds some penalty, like takes twice as long to cast, or uses twice as much TP. Actually, I like that idea. Holding combat weps still allows you to open the magic menu, it's just drasticly impared. So that way, the hunter who has one weapon set with saber and handgun, one with a double saber, and one with a sword, can still cast that critical resta, as long as he can get to a safe place first.

Eh, but I'll admit, it's really all speculation at this point. There's not enough info on the current system to be able to tell, and we dont know that ST might not change it anyway. I just like that they are doing SOMETHING to hinder spellcasting in the middle of battle.

[Kent]

I think you're forgetting, that TP is out the window for this game. Everything's weapon-based; your weapons have Photon Points, which are used for whatever with that weapon, including techniques.

It wouldn't make much sense to use the PP of one weapon to do a special from another weapon, now, would it? :/

[Shade-]

Wow, i really didn't notice... I failed pretty bad there. Oh well, I guess in any case we just have to wait for more info, as always.

[OdinTyler]

1. I wouldnt say TP is out the door just yet. Remember, we're just going on the weps. We dont know that we cant cast, but, all info is pointing to weapon reliance.

2. Buttons - X was to atk if I remember correctly & you did different button presses & combos. I remember 1 button not doing anything. Might've been X. I forget, sorry. O was wep select. You hold O, cycle through the combo you want, highlighting it. Then, you let go of O. Your hands will glow for a second, then, youll be equipped with the new wep set.

[_Tek_]

So far I've only seen attack techs on the magic weapons. But perhaps we'll get TP for support techs, used at any time. It would really be a pain in the ass to have to switch to a magic cane jsut to resta yourself. That shoudl be available all the time.

[Alisha]

i guess this throws battle mages out the window and i really liked battle fomarls http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif
i however suspect that newmans may be able to master techs and cast without a weapon

heres what i know so far correct me if im wrong

Beast-best attack cant use techs or guns
Cast best accuracy cant use techs
Human-All around
Newman-????????? whats thier ability

[Parn]

Beasts excel in melee, but are the worst with ranged. Casts excel in ranged but are the worst with techniques. Newmans excel in techniques, but are the worst with melee. Humans are the middle road for all of it, not excelling, but not sucking at any of the three departments.

I don't know why people keep getting their hopes up that they'll be able to cast techs without a staff. What buttons do you expect to be pushing to allow you such an ability?

[F-o-x]

Odin: Was is possible to manipulate the weap select screen with the right analog stick? I don't know about any of you but one of the best additions (I think) in GC was the ability to use the C-Stick to manipulate the menu while still being able to run around with the left analog stick. It was just so great not having to stop moving to use the menu (because you'd have to take your left thumb off of the analog stick to use the D-Pad) like it was in DC. I know you couldn't get into the menu but if you could use it for the weap select I think its safe to assume we'd be able to do it in the menu as well.

[Kupi]

On 2005-11-24 04:23, Alisha wrote:
i guess this throws battle mages out the window and i really liked battle fomarls http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


Melee weapon of choice in your main hand, Wand in the off hand?

Cast support techs with a staff, switch to a melee weapon and kick butt?

[F-o-x]

I'm sure there will be a way to do a battle mage. I'll definatly be making a Human (or maybe a Numan...) with magic as well as melee capabilities after my HUmar-ish character gets up there in levels. I'm sure it won't be too much trouble even if we are restricted to using mage-only weaps to cast techs.

[Kupi]

See above. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif