Would Life Be Meaningless Without Religion?

[WashuSaotome]

Do you think that without religion (in general), life would be pointless?

I think that life has no point either way. However, that is until *you* find a point for it. (If you choose to do so.)

Everyone is born free. Free of whatever. Free from the stresses of daily life. Free from any responsibility.

It is not until outside influences come along, that you are assigned a purpose or some type of motivation to live.

Those influences can range from your parents, nature, other people... You know. That kind of stuff.

So, mind sharing some of your thoughts?

[ABDUR101]

In the end it doesn't much matter, because if you wish to live a life with food, shelter and warmth, you need to commit to a job and drone away at it most of your life. Some pursue careers, some do odd jobs, some work as necessary.

In the end, you're grinding away on a standard routine of going to work to afford things that will help make the time between work and sleep either go faster, be funner, or easier.

Those are called luxuries of course, but in the end, you're droning away to live.

So, it all boils down to droning away at something you enjoy doing, and when you stop enjoying it, you go do something else. Often, that means uprooting yourself and going elsewhere, rather than just putting an application in at another store/warehouse/factory.

Would life be worth living without religion? People lived just fine when there was nothing to beleive in other than themselves.

Even with religion, one can ask, is life worth living?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Douglas Adams was a man thoroughly without religion. He filled it up with science, technology, humor and charities protecting endangered species.

So even without religion, I think there's still plenty enough for you wrap yourself up in.

[Orange_Coconut]

Well, honestly, I think life is kind of pointless. There are good times, there are bad times, but there is no real finish line until you die.

Yeah, you can fulfill goals you have and yes, you can create new ones. But there is no objective to life from the very beginning, except for living really. Some people think of it as a gift, some think of it as torture, it really depends on where you were born, influences, etc.

I think people can believe in whatever they want, it's always nice to know that there is something to believe in. It gives confidence and trust in something that isn't proven -- Same goes for the scientific theories and just personal beliefs set by morals and such.

It's great people go onto such success, it's terrible to see families starve or to see a person die. But death is the end, death is the point, we are put on this earth to live out our lives and die. Everything has it's time, there are so many different lives that not all of them can be good. Some are ended early, some are long-lasting, some are unexpectedly taken. But it is what happens, it is how we know when someone is truly finished with life.

I mean, finding a goal in life is a way of searching for something to hang on to so doubt doesn't take place. There are probably others who could care less if there is a point to life or not, but I don't really think there is a general point to it aside from the definite fact that we all die. So lives are lived, lives are taken, lives are lost -- But since every life is different, everyone has a different point, or points in life. While others may not see any.

[Qrrrbrbirbel]

Well, religion hasn't really been a big part of my life. I'm agnostic, but I don't neccessarily believe that there is the One. Life is pretty good for me and I have never had any inkling to start believing, or have an instance to induce my belief. So yeah, that's my 9 cents

[InfinityXXX]

Nah, you don't need religon to have a point to your life. I think life is whatever you make it and your life is only pointless if you feel it is pointless.

[Sinue_v2]

I think religeon can definately help put purpose in people's lives and give them direction, if they happen to be lost with nothing to cling to. However, when people lean on religeon to form the basis of who they are and what they believe - they become susceptible to charlatains and manipulators.

[Sharkyland]

I think religion helps with morals. Also science has areas where certain things cannot be defined. Oh, a miracle, that's a glitch in the matrix.

Hope would be artificial. Killing, stealing, and plagurizing would be kind rampart, of course, society would definitely create a norm for it that there would be no killing and stealing, but you don't have to worry about 'someone' watching you. Of course if you had Hannibal creating the rules 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' we would be pretty in a horrid shape.

I mean there would be no norm for people having multiple wives or husbands, and certain artifacts and momuments would have no meaning at all.

God created men and women as equal, but would be now false, and would probably once be a one sex dominated society.

All our cuss words would be actually different.

---

In today's sense... I can see how someone can live without religion, but there is no way one cannot be present without the influence of religion of one way or another, imo.

[Solstis]

On 2005-11-29 03:06, Sharkyland wrote:

In today's sense... I can see how someone can live without religion, but there is no way one cannot be present without the influence of religion of one way or another, imo.



Or something just like religion. On an infinite amount of parallel Earths, I think that religion, or some other sort of mass belief-system, would exist.

[rena-ko]

your task is to give your life a purpose. youre free to go the easy way and subscribe to some religion (as in prechewed point of view) or to make up the point of your life yourself. which is, i might add, way more fullfilling.

and your personal reason to live can be anything.

[Zelutos]

I've always thought relgions were a joke. So no, it wouldn't both me if relgions ceased to exist.

[FIDELCASTRO]

religion helps

religion is the standard for many governments. if you look, the commandments are pretty much in every government, just worded differently.

for a while, religion wasn't that big to me. recently, it has been, and I'm far more concerned with where I'm going than where I am.

[zwandude15]

Life...an odd subject. As long a conversation as life itself. I don't think life has much to do with religion...i dont see it that way anyways. I think we came from organisms to be honest. Some scientists say that it would take too long for us to evolve into what we are today from single celled organisms. Then again, they say that the universe started RANDOMLY with something called the big bang, so i think at this point i can say they're all wrong. I think MAYBE we weren't PUT on this earth intentionally in this case, meaning maybe there is no point, just simply to die as stated earlier. I just have no clue as to what life is really about, but i should start by saying religion isnt the base of the reason, or so i think. So sue me...

[Derek0660]

In my opinion if you think life is pointless then your life is pointless.

Enjoy it for what it is, not for you to make a point of it. You only get one chance to live (unless you belive in ressurection, etc.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Derek0660 on 2005-11-29 18:25 ]</font>

[EphekZ]

On 2005-11-29 13:19, Zelutos wrote:
I've always thought relgions were a joke. So no, it wouldn't both me if relgions ceased to exist.



Roger That.

religion is just weird. many different stories about the same thing blablabla

[KodiaX987]

Without religion, life doesn't become meaningless. It becomes smart! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

[EphekZ]

On 2005-11-29 20:53, KodiaX987 wrote:
Without religion, life doesn't become meaningless. It becomes smart! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif



wow actually that's the smartest thing someone has said
http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

[Sinue_v2]

I believe it's very possible be intelligent and rational while still believing in religeon. The trick is, to think for yourself and not to let others think for you. Science does not negate religeon or vice versa, IMO, but we've yet to see the whole picture of how the two intertwine. Misconceptions of the past are not being defeated, but rather are spawning todays newer misconceptions.

[WashuSaotome]

On 2005-11-29 20:56, darkgunner wrote:


On 2005-11-29 20:53, KodiaX987 wrote:
Without religion, life doesn't become meaningless. It becomes smart! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif



wow actually that's the smartest thing someone has said
http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif



LOL!

Good one. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[REJ-]

Obviously, there has to be some sort of intelligent being that created us. The thing about accepting or declining religion is that as humans, it's hard for us to grasp the concept of a Divine being existing for all eternity before we were made with no begining and no end (accepting religion), and it's also hard to grasp the concept of everything just starting randomly at one point, where there is no time or space before that point, nothing meaning there was nothing at all, hard to understand but that's what I'm saying. Basically, even if there was a Random start, there had to be something to guide us to our point of existance, cause there were infinite ways things could have happened that would have led to none of us existing at all. Even at this point, there had to be some intelligent design to how humans function. What are the chances that there are just the right amount of each atom in the right formation in our brains to do what we call "thinking", and the right amount of each atom in our body to do what we call "moving". And what are the chances that all of the millions of chemical reactions in the brains, nerves and bodies of the billions of humans that have lived before us, reacted in such precision that buildings and technology were constructed, and governments are established. Right now, for you to read this, the processes of the computer are continuing precisely sending signals to the screen, and light is being produced from the screen in such a way that it forms the pattern of words, and that light is reacting with our eyes, which send signals to our brain to "read" it with the chemical processes that occur. The fact that we can learn, read, think, and interact with other humans, is more than proof enough for the fact that there is a God that created us. What are the chances that the idea of God's existance just got formulated in the brains of multiple people, and then got communicated effectively to many other people, through the billions of extremely complex processes involved in speaking and hearing and comprehending what is spoken and heard. Basically, all of existance is just screaming that there is a God that made everything, But the majority of our pathetic race is far too hopelessly blind to notice it.

[Jehosaphaty]

On 2005-11-30 19:27, REJ- wrote:
Obviously, there has to be some sort of intelligent being that created us. The thing about accepting or declining religion is that as humans, it's hard for us to grasp the concept of a Divine being existing for all eternity before we were made with no begining and no end (accepting religion), and it's also hard to grasp the concept of everything just starting randomly at one point, where there is no time or space before that point, nothing meaning there was nothing at all, hard to understand but that's what I'm saying. Basically, even if there was a Random start, there had to be something to guide us to our point of existance, cause there were infinite ways things could have happened that would have led to none of us existing at all. Even at this point, there had to be some intelligent design to how humans function.

What are the chances that there are just the right amount of each atom in the right formation in our brains to do what we call "thinking", and the right amount of each atom in our body to do what we call "moving". And what are the chances that all of the millions of chemical reactions in the brains, nerves and bodies of the billions of humans that have lived before us, reacted in such precision that buildings and technology were constructed, and governments are established.

Right now, for you to read this, the processes of the computer are continuing precisely sending signals to the screen, and light is being produced from the screen in such a way that it forms the pattern of words, and that light is reacting with our eyes, which send signals to our brain to "read" it with the chemical processes that occur.

The fact that we can learn, read, think, and interact with other humans, is more than proof enough for the fact that there is a God that created us. What are the chances that the idea of God's existance just got formulated in the brains of multiple people, and then got communicated effectively to many other people, through the billions of extremely complex processes involved in speaking and hearing and comprehending what is spoken and heard. Basically, all of existance is just screaming that there is a God that made everything, But the majority of our pathetic race is far too hopelessly blind to notice it.




your ginormous paragraph was almost unreadable so i tried to make it at least easier on the eyes.

the last sentence is boldend because this is exactly the type of comment that inevitably happens to topics of this variety. you had some good points, but with that last sentence you put out the fire you were starting.

anyways. regardless of your stance, and im not saying you're right or wrong (my two cents would agree with some of what you said) but condemning half a populace as hopelessly blind wont garner your stance any respect

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jehosaphaty on 2005-11-30 19:43 ]</font>

[Solstis]

Man, how can people not see that considering the infinite expanses of the universe, the development of an entity such as humanity is highly probable! The universe's infinite nature makes anything infinitely probable!

Seems pretty obvious to me, but the majority of our pathetic race is far too hopelessly blind to notice it.

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

See how this works? People that claim absolutes make me giggle.

[Edit]: Thanks Jeho, I would have ignored the block otherwise.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2005-11-30 19:52 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

REJ-, Have you ever considered the possibility that life itself is a property of the universe? Just as gravity, momentum, mass, and all the laws of physics - life could very be a naturally occuring force.

I've heard quite a number of people express this possibility, and one need look no farther than the diversity of live across all climates and habitats on Earth and consider the substancial and profound changes life has made to survive - and then evolve into new forms to conquer (or retake) new environments. Do you know just how much hardship life has overcome to survive? There was a point in Earth's history when an asteroid struck the Earth which made the one which killed the Dinosaurs look like a pebble. The entire surface of the Earth was completely liquified by the heat.. whole oceans vaporised in mere minuites. Total and complete steralization of the Earth. Yet life still adapted, and survived... even against a cataclysm that sudden. Darwin was wrong. Natural Selection is not the driving force behind evolution - but is rather a simple cog in a much grander machine.

This idea treads rather closely to the idea of Intelligent Design, but the two aren't quite the same. The simple fact is... we don't know why life is so prevelant and so stubborn. It existed on this planet almost as long as the planet has existed.. which is amazing considering the odds of it happening just by "chance".

All I'm trying to say is that "God" may not be behind it all. We don't know enough about the subject to make a determination like that. Choose to believe that God created it all if you wish, but at least keep an open mind. Even if you cast off organized religeon's explanations - your own pre-dispositions on the subject of god and creation can be everybit as restrictive to uncovering the real truth behind life as any mass faith institution.

[REJ-]

Concerning my last post, I meant blind as in, they refuse to see or accept it. They see the evidence, they are told about it, but they just won't accept it. I know the chance of life existing is highly probable, but we aren't a natural species anymore. We have been past all forms of natural life, since the day the first man lived. Man, since their beginning, has had things like greed, love, hatred, dreams, jealousy, and guilt , which isn't naturally present in any other species. Sure, you can train monkeys and parrots to "love" someone or "hate" someone else, but how often do they sacrifice themselves for their "loved" companions, or obsess over someone that they "hate" until they finally manage to kill them, then feel "guilty" about it. There are also phoenomenons like the human mind, technology, and miracles, that aren't naturally occuring forces. People know how the brain works, but they never came close to figuring out the human mind which has it's own personality and thoughts. Technology is the result of man altering what is around them, and making un-natural uses of them examples: *computers- use electricity to perform various processes, not very natural is it? electrical programming- a series of electronic signals that can do what seems like an immitation of thinking, this doesn't look like evolution anymore, does it?* After those, who can explain what miracles are, there have been quite a handful of miracles, even in modern times. Life might be a naturally occuring force, but human existance was never natural to begin with. Have you ever noticed that natural forms of life have a balance with their habbitat, taking only what they need, and what is left can be used by other forms of life without waste, coninuing the cycle. If a predator hunts it's prey until there isn't much prey to find, the predator species is unable to find enough to keep the full population alive and starts to die, until there isn't as much of them hunting they prey, then the prey population goes up, restarting the cycle. When man hunts prey until there isn't much prey left to find, rather than man's population dereasing until there is more prey, man develops a way to get more of its prey increasing it's own population, but the population of its prey continues to vanish until that cycle ends. It's not a cycle really, man takes and takes, and there is no stop to it, the amount that man takes increases without lowering, and the amount of resources decreases without coming back up. No other natural species comes close to this. That would be because our existance isn't natural. People think that modern medicin and technology can explain life, but they themselves are yet to be explained. If our thoughts are just chemical reactions in our heads, then how did those reactions all come up to such comlex levels to form emotion, technology, government, and religion? If man was like the other forms of life, natural,and balanced with other forms of life, then I'd totally buy the whole "life is naturally occuring and highly probable" idea, but we aren't like any other natural life. The development of an entity such as humanity occuring randomly in the universe, is such a small fraction of a chance compared to the development of natural life occuring randomly in the universe, the ratio of the chance of human existance compared to natural existance would look like this:
0.0000000000000001:9999999999999999999999999
So if "the development of an entity such as humanity is highly probable" then why aren't there trillions of different of other natural species occupying almost all of the other planets in the universe? Really the chance of human existance occuring randomly in the universe is slim to none. You guys just kill the chance of a "super" rare item dropping twice on the same run ex.* "I found 2 Lavis Cannons in the same room from this one group of tollaws!" "that's bullshit" * Well, whats that compared to the chance of random human existance?

[Solstis]

So if "the development of an entity such as humanity is highly probable" then why aren't there trillions of different of other natural species occupying almost all of the other planets in the universe? Really the chance of human existance occuring randomly in the universe is slim to none. You guys just kill the chance of a "super" rare item dropping twice on the same run ex.* "I found 2 Lavis Cannons in the same room from this one group of tollaws!" "that's bullshit" * Well, whats that compared to the chance of random human existance?


Who says that there aren't? Your "obvious" evidence is flawed in that it's what you fervently believe. There could be a galaxy out there filled with intelligent life. On that note, humanity may be the only sapient creatures in existence. It's possible. I do entertain the thought that a divine being may have created us. At the same time, I allow myself to realize that infinity is a pretty big number.

Oh, and if you believe that humanity has gone beyond what is "natural," then you are rejecting the thought of an omnipotent God. My belief that everything that humanity does is "natural." We are creatures. We are animals. We do what is natural for us, and technology has become natural for us. Why? We created societies. The creation of societies was a natural step for us. Why? Because humanity probably needed them in order to spread, to survive. The evolution of technology is the same as growing a new leg, developing pollen, or hollow bones.

By the way, you're making up fractions. For all you know, the Earth is an anomaly and ALL other life is sentient. The majority of Earth's creatures may be outliers; "dumb" animals are a rareity.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2005-12-01 18:02 ]</font>

[KaFKa]

You are born, you make babies, you die.

There isnt anything more to life than that.

ffs stop making a meaningless existance meaningful.

Pathetic sheeps.

[Kent]

I will agree that it's pointless to argue about religions. You're a fool if you think your interpretation of what may or may not be is absolutely correct, even moreso if you believe that to such an extent, you're willing to attack or kill someone smart enough to not be as sucked into it as you are.

I'm not going to go off, trying to disprove or discredit peoples' beliefs. I'm just saying, you're far more likely to be wrong than you are to be right. :/ So don't bother fighting over it.

I reserve the right to Nelson laugh at anyone who does.

[Sinue_v2]

I know the chance of life existing is highly probable, but we aren't a natural species anymore.

Since when have we ever been artifical?


Man, since their beginning, has had things like greed, love, hatred, dreams, jealousy, and guilt , which isn't naturally present in any other species.

Actually, those traits have been found in quite a few animal species - most notably canines. Though our primate cousins are also well known to have these sorts of emotions. It's not uncommon for a male baboon who kills previous heirarch who befriended many of the groups females and beta males to find himself without support when challenged by other males. In some instances - groups of baboons have been known to engage in feuds with another nearby troups - while totally ignoring (or at least, not viciously attacking) other baboon intruders.

Did you also know that, just like us, Dolphins have sex for pleasure - not just for reproduction.


Sure, you can train monkeys and parrots to "love" someone or "hate" someone else, but how often do they sacrifice themselves for their "loved" companions, or obsess over someone that they "hate" until they finally manage to kill them, then feel "guilty" about it.

More often than you give them credit for.


There are also phoenomenons like the human mind, technology, and miracles, that aren't naturally occuring forces.

While I can't speak to miracles (which is, in itself, a faith based concept), who's to say that technology isn't naturally occuring? The individual bits and pieces we make to exploit that technology don't grow on trees - but perhaps intelligence, just like Venom, Color Patterns, Flight, ect, are common steps to evolution of life in all ecosystems.


People know how the brain works, but they never came close to figuring out the human mind which has it's own personality and thoughts.

Who's to say we won't though? Just because it's a mystery right now - doesn't mean it always will be. If you were to ask an ancient Egyptian scholar - he would have told you that the brain was utterly useless to a person's soul.


Technology is the result of man altering what is around them, and making un-natural uses of them examples: *computers- use electricity to perform various processes, not very natural is it? electrical programming- a series of electronic signals that can do what seems like an immitation of thinking, this doesn't look like evolution anymore, does it?*

Doesn't it? Look at the way the PC market has grown and expanded in the last 40 years. The way we introduce new products, test them, revise them - and how the public reacts to them in light of the competition. The global free market economy is a strange mirror image of evolution in progress. It's a similar pattern - and it's part of the reason why some scientists think that these two examples (evolution and economics) are just different facets of the same phenomena.


Have you ever noticed that natural forms of life have a balance with their habbitat

No they don't. Life balances itself out. It adapts to new circumstances - but individual creatures themselves are often very destructive to their environments. Expecially when a new species is introduced to an ecosystem which hasn't had proper time to adapt to it yet.

Eventually, nature will come to adapt to human intelligence as well. Those species which cannot adapt will die, others will modify their behavior, and some will eventually evolve into completely new creatures which are more adaptive to our own behaviors and to the changes we make in the environment. Human civilization hasn't been around long enough to see many changes in the larger multicellular animals - but it's readily apperant in microscopic organisms. Hell, just look at the increasingly ineffective treatment of penecillin for proof of adaptation to human technology.


It's not a cycle really, man takes and takes, and there is no stop to it, the amount that man takes increases without lowering, and the amount of resources decreases without coming back up.

Have you ever considered the possibility that we are life's own way of cleaning the slate - of causing a mass extinction which will force life to begin anew, and increase variety and deviation in species? It's happened before. There's been at least 5 great extinctions in Earth's history - and only 2 of them were cause by meteorite impacts. Look at the first photosyntetic organisms which breathed nitrogen and exhaled oxygen. Oxygen is a highly corrosive gas, it's poison. When plant life first started giving it off as waste, it changed our planet's atmosphere profoundly. Many creatures couldn't survive in such an oxygen rich atmosphere and it caused a mass extintion. Life adapted though...


The development of an entity such as humanity occuring randomly in the universe, is such a small fraction of a chance compared to the development of natural life occuring randomly in the universe, the ratio of the chance of human existance compared to natural existance would look like this:
0.0000000000000001:9999999999999999999999999 [quote]

First of all, that number is bogus. Secondly, you don't have any other reference points aside from our own species to proclaim weither or not intelligent and emotional creatures exist elsewhere in the galaxy. Besides, considering the vastness of the universe, even with the chances you posted - there would be MILLIONS of civilizations just like ours out there waiting to be discovered.

So if "the development of an entity such as humanity is highly probable" then why aren't there trillions of different of other natural species occupying almost all of the other planets in the universe?[quote]

To restate another poster - how do you know there aren't? Space is quite vast, and we may never discover intelligent life on the same level as our own within our species lifetime. That doesn't mean they're not out there, and that doesn't mean there's not a lot of them.

[hyperacute]

I think that without a lot of the good things that have come about through the various religions; charities, great works of art, inspirational acts of selflessness, great architecture, etc, that everyone's lives would be a little poorer without religion, even if they are not a subscriber.