A way to hopefully limit cheating.

[DavidNel]

I was thinking of ways to limit cheating in this new game. It came to me when I was playing the old counter-strike (with cheats). I got voted off the server. I thought this would also be a good idea for the new game. If a player(s) sees another cheating, he can send a vote out to the other members of the party and get them kicked out. This will also work on annoying people that use inappropriate laguage, abuse the new symbol chat, or use the voice talk to much. I think this would really help the new game out without using to many patches.

[Mystil]

This raises the question of 'what if' all are cheating in the game. You can't stop it - cheating will always be around. It does take considerably longer to create any kind of cheating for a true MMO. Best advice? Be sure you're one of the ones who get the game at release. Cause later down the road is always when it gets real bad.

[Shade-]

Personally, I don't like this idea. (I'm going to generalize, dont freak out on me) I don't want to end up with some 13 year old kid, paying with his daddys credit card, bumping me off my server because he didn't like me explaining how when you rush at a boss when your party isn't ready, it hurts everyone.

[ColonD]

I'll have to agree with Shade, it could end up a bunch of childish cheaters voting off legitmate players. And of course, oddles of just plain immature acting players.

An idea, which, oddly enough came from Halo, is to report suspected cheaters, and have help sort them out. It even showed their score, what other games they played, and a map of the arena,(With different views, 'cause there was this 'super-jump' cheat of sorts. As well as an instant headshot one. It was suposedily something done to the map...) and where a person was when they killed someone, and where the person made dead was.
While I know darn well some concepts won't work, (Because are beloved PSU is of course, an RPG)

Having people report who they think is a cheater, and some group sorting them out would indeed work better is some ways, in my opinion that is.


Of course, looking for random gliches is fun, but so long as a person isn't messing with it, I'm okay. (I got a Dark Gunner into the room before the final big room due to a silly wall glich. XP Never figured how it happened, but it was silly.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ColonD on 2005-12-06 21:14 ]</font>

[Niki]

Both sides of the argument seem valid, but it may be prudent to keep this in mind: you can discriminate in who you choose to include in your squad. PSOW is a perfect example of a resource you can use to keep your team legit and mature.

[Shade-]

well, i guess you can look at it differently. I didn't think if it as when a group is created, a leader is appointed and they can remove people if they want. That is kind of a standard in a lot of games. Again, it could be abused, but that wouldn't be as bad.

[DavidNel]

Thats why there is a vote. Hopefully, of there are a resonable amount of mature people, there will not be as much random kicks. There would be no party leader. It would take the majority to people to vote them out. Even if there are only 2 people (one of which is in the process of getting kicked) they both get a vote. Becasue only two people are in the game, it won't matter much that one of them is cheating. If the other doesn't like it they can leave. This process is to help clean large party games.

[Kano-Okami]

I beg to differ,
Voting only opens a door for problems. Elitism would arise and those who didn't fit their own "idea" of what a teammate should be would be removed from the team.
Most likely, higher level players would exile the beginners, regaurdless of circumstance.
I don't believe voting is the way to go..

[OdinTyler]

Welcome to the world of online gaming, people. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif OK, joke out of the way, time to be serious. Theres always going to be good & bad ppl out there. Now that the party size is increased to 6, its going to be harder to 'keep an eye' on everyone. Given that, its up to each of us to decide who we associate & play side by side with. True, there are alot of kids that play online, claiming they earned the money to play (we know this isnt true), but, theres ppl of varying ages & backgrounds on there as well. Only you can decide who you want to socialize with & the rest, well, attempt to speak as respectfully as possible. Otherwise, the 30 somethings like us are gonna yell at ya. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif J/K

[ANIMEniac]

what i think is they should do something like what guild wars is doin. every game disc has a certain code, then u put in ur info and play. If you do get caugt 4 cheetingand are banned, they ban the disc# along with the info. so say i baught PSU for 50 bucks and am paying 4 online, then get banned. not i have to not only renew my account but also buy another copy of PSU witch will be another 50 cause the one u cheated on is now deactivated and worthless. well im sqeezing this out b4 sever shutdown so ... here



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ANIMEniac on 2005-12-07 15:07 ]</font>

[Shade-]

Xbox Live bans your actual console from all of XBL if you are caught cheating. I think it'd be fair to say IP ban anyone caught cheating. This is, considering it becomes a problem, and ST decides to actually do something about it.

[_Tek_]

public voting is actually abused throughout all online games.

[Miyoko]

Having the leader able to kick people would be the best idea. It works for other MMOs. When you join a team that isn't yours, you're taking a risk that involves the possibility of you being kicked. If you don't want to be kicked from the team, don't be a wanker. It's that simple. If I create a team with specific intent in mind, say doing a particular mission, hunting a specific item, or something of the sort, and someone on my team is being an nuiscance and not listening, and dragging the team down, I shouldn't need permission from teamates to kick him/her. If they didn't want to help me reach my goal, they shouldn't have joined my team.

If you're really worried about it, then make your own teams. Besides, so what if you get kicked by a cheater, or a '13 year old using daddy's credit card', or some other immature player? Do you -really- want to be on a team with them anyways?



[edit] If you're referring to said player being kicked off the -entire PSU server-, forbidding them for coming online in general... Well, there's nothing the public can do there. The best way for that to go is to leave it soley in the hands of the GMs and developers, as they're the only ones who can really check for hacking/cheating. As said before, pubilc voting isn't exactly fair a lot of the time. Lets just hope the devs and GMs for PSU actually tend to such matters as cheating, and not neglect it untill it gets out of hand like PSU... :|

(Sorry if you were referring to the entire PSU server, and not specific, man made games. Using a counter-strike server for an analogy to the entire PSU isn't a very good idea, as a counter-strike server is more like the self-made games in PSO/U; you can get kicked from one CS server and join another)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Miyoko on 2005-12-07 23:54 ]</font>

[F-o-x]

I was thinking that as well. If there was some kind of voting/kicking system, no doubt it would get abused. It is still somewhat of a good idea however, if someone mature and level-headed was in control of it.

As far as bans go I say do everything. If cheating becomes a problem ban IPs ban disks and the damn consoles/PCs responsible.

Hell I've been thinking of something since back in the DC days when cheating got to be unbearable. PSU is going to be Sonic Team's game right? No doubt they will draw up a Terms of Service agreement... I say put some ridiculous fee on there as the concequences of violating it. It would curb cheating if the people responsible were slammed with $500 fines for every offense.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-o-x on 2005-12-08 08:49 ]</font>

[OdinTyler]

Lets say someone does get caught cheating. I feel the public would want to know for sure something is being done about it. Maybe something in game could happen. Idk, like a Darkfalz could come attack that person, swallowing him whole. Personally, I think that would be hilarious. It would get the point across, dont you think?

[Kano-Okami]

On 2005-12-07 23:54, F-o-x wrote:
I was thinking that as well. If there was some kind of voting/kicking system, no doubt it would get abused. It is still somewhat of a good idea however, if someone mature and level-headed was in control of it.

As far as bans go I say do everything. If cheating becomes a problem ban IPs ban disks and the damn consoles/PCs responsible.

Hell I've been thinking of something since back in the DC days when cheating got to be unbearable. PSU is going to be Sonic Team's game right? No doubt they will draw up a Terms of Service agreement... I say put some ridiculous fee on there as the concequences of violating it. It would curb cheating if the people responsible were slammed with $500 fines for every offense.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-o-x on 2005-12-08 08:49 ]</font>
I agree, a hefty fine should have beeen a part of the terms and agreement from the beginning, I'd guarantee it'd stall cheating to a crawl...
I can understand how this choice was probably held back, seeing as the characters were hard to keep track of, in the console pso versions, but now that characters are saved server-side, I practically demand a fiercer punishment ,

[Rion772]

On 2005-12-06 09:12, DavidNel wrote:
I was thinking of ways to limit cheating in this new game. It came to me when I was playing the old counter-strike (with cheats). I got voted off the server. I thought this would also be a good idea for the new game. If a player(s) sees another cheating, he can send a vote out to the other members of the party and get them kicked out. This will also work on annoying people that use inappropriate laguage, abuse the new symbol chat, or use the voice talk to much. I think this would really help the new game out without using to many patches.


Socom II has this as well. I disagree partially becuase you can't kick someone out for talking to much, if they talk too much then ignore it. Also I agree about the swearing thing, I like to cuss people out in Socom because that game's all about being competitive and people just cheat their arses off so I get pissed, I just swear a lot on that game... But in PSU that wouldn't seem right, it's more of a have fun game than a competitive thing. I like the voting idea, it works very well but seem people are losers and just vote you becuase they don't like you. It happens to me all the time if I keep going the same path and keep killing like 1/2 of the other team, or I go somewhere where most people get killed at, people vote you and it's just stupid and they have no real reason, they're basically voting you for the way you play. It should be like AIM where you warn someone if the computer recognizes they did something wrong, that way there couldn't be pointless voting.

[OdinTyler]

I guess no one even liked PART of my idea? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[DavidNel]

Ya, or the person could get boned by delsabers. I would laugh.

[Niki]

Hm, hentai.

But seriously, the best way to get your point across in this arena is with $. if cheating is a problem, and it goes unaddressed, ST will certainly take note when you stop paying them and stop playing.

[Cai]

On 2005-12-09 15:31, OdinTyler wrote:
I guess no one even liked PART of my idea? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


I thought the hungry Dark Falz was creative http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Kano-Okami]

On 2005-12-09 21:57, Cai wrote:


On 2005-12-09 15:31, OdinTyler wrote:
I guess no one even liked PART of my idea? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


I thought the hungry Dark Falz was creative http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Actually, I'd think that would promote cheating rather then hault it. That'd be quite the sight to see.

[Sinue_v2]

what i think is they should do something like what guild wars is doin. every game disc has a certain code, then u put in ur info and play. If you do get caugt 4 cheetingand are banned, they ban the disc# along with the info. so say i baught PSU for 50 bucks and am paying 4 online, then get banned. not i have to not only renew my account but also buy another copy of PSU witch will be another 50 cause the one u cheated on is now deactivated and worthless. well im sqeezing this out b4 sever shutdown so ... here

Meh... they already did that on PSO v.1 and v.2 for the Dreamcast. To a point, they still do. That's what your Seriel #, Access Key, and Password are for. The Seriel # and Access Key are what makes Guild Card Number, and they help to prevent piracy. The Password is tied to both your Guild Card # and your character files.

However, in the Dreamcast versions - you didn't have a Password. Each Dreamcast console had it's own ID code in the BIOS. This was also done to prevent piracy (you could still play offline, but if your Access Key and Seriel # were registered to a different DC console, you couldn't play online) It would have been easy for them (and I think they might have done it a few times) to simply ban the console's ID from the server - ensuring that even if you do get another copy of PSO, you'd still not be able to get back online with that console.

Well.. we all know how well the anti-cheat measures on the Dreamcast worked. All the ideas presented in this thread hang by a thin strand of reason - that Sonic Team actually gives a crap about keeping cheaters off the servers. No matter what method they impliment - if they don't enforce it, it will be useless.

So to me... effort would be the #1 thing they could add to PSU to cut down on cheaters.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2005-12-09 23:39 ]</font>

[Ryo_Hayasa]

I think the leader vote would be the best bet if there were anything like that. Though it would just have to be that room as opposed to being booted from PSU completely and having a IP ban. That's just too drastic, especially with a system held over the internet. Because there's no way to truely filter the guilty from the innocent. A cheater, or a jerk, or a negetive-who-ever could get his buddies to all post a story about you in an effort to get you banned. I've seen it happened in Forums and other games, and it isn't good. The fact is it would end up being your truthful word against 7 or 12 liars who are good at lying.

Room boots are the way to go, atleast then worse case senario you spend your day getting booted from room to room untill you decide to make your own.

[DavidNel]

Thats what I ment when I started this thred. You would only gget kicked from the game, becasue you could be wrongly acussed.

[OdinTyler]

TY Cai. At least someone liked it. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif No, I meant Darkfalz would 'take care' of someone who cheated. He'd come along & eat your char. Translation: your char is gone...for good. It would make you think twice about cheating. That or he could turn your char into a monster & he'd officially become a villain, waiting for the rest of us to destroy. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif